THE TRUTH ABOUT PIANO COMPETITIONS // Who Usually Wins? Should You Enter? - A Pianist’s Perspective

Today I share my very personal thoughts on piano competitions, their value to you personally, to your career, who usually is most likely to win and whether or not you should consider entering them.
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More about me:
Website: danae-doerken.com
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Facebook: / danaedoerkenpiano

[@lucasfrb]

Love your videos, i think that if people spent more time composing new music than in preparing for playing music on competitions that thousands of other people already played and mastered before, classical music would have a lot more variety for us to play, but that s just my opinion, keep going!

I definitely agree that composing new music is so important and back in the times of Mozart, it was completely normal that every pianist was also a composer.

[@paolofrigeriomusic3691]

this is exactly the case of the last chopin competition.......liu xiaoyu the winner is the perfect one, but you will forget his playing almost soon. not the same for Aimi Kobayashi so to tell one... her preludes and her 2nd movement of the concerto will stay for a long time in your ears as the real art of interpretation , this is my humble opinion. thanks for that wise talk about this topic . take care of you Danae. Paolo from Italy

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately, this situation happens all too often… all the best to you as well and thanks for watching 🙏🏻

[@enigmas6210]

A perfect example is Lisiecki.... He wouldn't get past the first stage of the Chopin Competition....but he has a career....simply because he was a young talent.

[@dorfmanjones]

I assume you've heard his Chopin etudes. They are exceptional.

[@rachelstarritt481]

Competitions are a sttrange thing, you have to know what your limitations are emotionally and psychologically because you’re preparing large programs of repertoire across a long time for ages. It also depends on the influences and what sort of pianist you want to be. Musicians often have to perform in these big concert halls and they don’t always sound acoustically equal especially at the back. Piano playing a few centuries ago was intimate and often played in the domestic salons where improvisation was still all the rage. Even in the 20th century pianists like Backhaus, Hoffman and Lammond were extending/changing the composer’s text by imbellishing the melody or adding in bass notes, preluding at the beginning to introduce the piece etc. I agree that you need an open mind for competitions, but also you have to understand why you’re there to do it and if you can cope with all this pressure of preparing a tonne of repertoire while keeping your interpretation more aligned with the musical details which is hard to do!!! I know that there have been changes to the Leeds competition in 2018-there’s even more pressure now when you have to prepare two different programs, chamber music and two concertos at performance standard and then the jury decides which one you’re going to do and emery round is streamed and reviewed internationally-versus before where you just prepared one concerto and one solo program for each round. Competitions in a nutshell help learn how to prepare efficiently and exposure to performing on unfamiliar instruments.

Absolutely agree with your conclusion. And yes, you need to „built“ for it, in a way.

[@Barichter74318]

Amazing video, agreed with everything you have stated. There are many things to gain in a competition, like meeting the other amazing pianists, jurors and getting feedback about your playing. Going there with a mindset that sees winning as the only way will be pretty harmful considering as you said, even being considered the best pianist there doesn't guarantee you the first prize.

[@michaelonkeys3068]

Great thoughts. You definitely must not enter a competition aiming to win it - that is the wrong attitude. You must approach with a view to learning the pieces, experiencing performing in front of judges and the audience, and using that experience going forward. Also from the feedback from the judges, the learning from hearing the other performers, and it is also a chance to network. As Danae says, music is not a science (or a sport) so you must remember not to be disheartened if the judges choose another winner. Always one man's meat is another man's poison. X

Thank you so much, I completely agree with you. Thanks for sharing this!

[@michaelonkeys3068]

Small caveat: I am a man who is yet to win a competition. Usually, I was last.

Nothing to worry about ;)

[@btudor_06]

Agree but if you always think like "I go for the experience", you will never achieve anything

[@oudompianist5594]

Hi Danae! Thank you for this video. I recently participated in my university's concerto competition and made it to the finals. I was so happy just to give it my best and to have fun sharing the music with the audience. I didn't really care about whether I won or not, initially. It wasn't until after when the results were announced where my colleagues and even some of my professors said that I should have won. It felt like I was living Pogorelich's scandal 😂!!! People saying those things made me question my playing and led me to compare myself to the other contestants, however, your video helped reassure that just because I didn't win does not mean I failed. I'm so glad I found your video! It really helped me recenter myself.

Exactly!!! And huge congratulations on making it to the finals! 💪🏻🎉

[@Sokolovpianist249]

Very interesting view on the subject! Thanks for sharing this with us. 🙏🏻

Thanks! Glad you found this interesting :)

[@theroninpianist4443]

Bela Bartok said once "Competitions are for horses, not artists."

Haha well put! 😉

[@theroninpianist4443]

@ It is so ironic that now there are so many competitions named after him 😂

[@aaronepstein4906]

I just wanted to say that you're wonderful Danae. I have been watching many of your videos over the last days, you are sharing so much insight and practical wisdom and knowledge in such a well-communicated way. Thank you for this gift!

Thanks so much, very glad you are enjoying them 🤗

[@jojowisa1270]

Tiffany Poon, why, when we could see u 😍 hypnotized by this channel

[@RobertOrgRobert]

Every word you said was 100% correct.

Thank you so much 🙏🏻

[@jojowisa1270]

Excuse me, but since I developed a practice strategy for producing flowing beautiful music, I am the best. Thank u

[@pollytan6030]

Danae Dorken: I agree with what you have explained and I hope our young aspiring musicians will watch your video and take your advice.There is so much more competition these days and I feel sorry that they they have to work even harder.

Thanks so much for watching!

[@mattfangrecorderstudio8325]

This is so informative.

🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@zinapjs]

Thank you very much!This is the best advise I'll pass tо my 8yo teacherless pianista girl that works so hard to participate in competition

Thank you!! And how great that she is so dedicated 👏🏻👌🏻

[@Cubanbearnyc]

Very healthy approach and advise on competitions

[@dkinney1000]

And try not to let the process of choosing one of three or more pianos before the first round distract you.

[@mr.p5446]

It is a generalization because we all know who Danill Trifonov is :) . I feel sad whenever I watch a competition. I see so many incredible pianists … my dream since I was a kid was to be a pianist. I studied so much and lately I was studying Rach 3 , Chopin’s ballades , Etudes , etc. I never had a good teacher and wasted many hours with wrong approaches … only know by myself and reading many good materials I was able to distinguish . But now, at 31 years old, with a family to take care of, I became a math teacher. As I am also doing graduate school I feel so lost because I cannot find time to practice the great masterpieces of my heart , but I am still finding my way with music … hope I find a direction.

It is so amazing and the most important thing that you are still making music regularly - one of the best sources of joy and strength!

[@thequietproject]

you're my hero

[@ronaldo_ofalia]

Danae, I admire you for your wisdom and intelligence. There are many skilled musicians. However, there are very few skilled and wise & intelligent musicians. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Thomas Hampson are the best examples which I can give. In my humble opinion, you are one of those musicians (pianist especially). All the best to you.

Thank you so much for your kind words. 🙏🏻

[@shuatock8216]

I plan on entering my local concerto competition in October. It seems like I’m gonna choose Beethoven’s Emperor Concerto, but I may settle for something I would have less a chance of messing up (probably Mozart K. 488). This will be my first ever competition, but I’m gonna give it my all. Any advice would be deeply appreciated. After all, commentators are the smartest people in the world lol

Oh that sounds great, good luck!! I think you already have the right mindset, work hard leading up to it, practice performing your concerto in front of an audience (friends, teachers, etc) beforehand, give it your all in the performance and then, once you have done your very best and have finished playing, try not to care too much about the result. If you did the very best preparation and performance possible, that’s what is most important to make your proud. Also, you can use it as a place to meet many interesting and like-minded people. Wishing you all the best 🤞

[@paulofil72]

Great content, as usual. Which competitions did you participated?

I participated in various competitions when I was still quite young such as the Carl Czerny competition in Prague or the International Piano Competition in Enschede and countless other youth competitions in Germany. However, I never participated in any really “big” competitions - it was a somewhat conscious decision against them, as long as I was getting enough concerts and engagements in other ways. This path worked out well for me, but obviously, for others, the competition path might be the better one.

[@sibylleschefczik3544]

Goldrichtige Worte!

🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@rothschildianum]

I entered amateur competitions. Of course, it has nothing to do with building a career. If we take seriously, entering competition will improve the quality of our playing. But most people enter amateur competitions just for fun. It is an ok reason too! But for our piano playing improvements, it will not be beneficial.

That’s so wonderful! I think that entering amateur competitions as someone who loves playing piano on an amateur level should definitely be something that you do for fun and that you should enjoy. :) I wish you all the best for your further piano journey! ☺️

[@BenjaminGessel]

I’m looking at having an intermediate level piano competition just within my studio (for the first time). What sorts of things should I keep in mind with such an event?

[@frandrepol7204]

Great pedagogy

Thank you so much 🙏🏻

[@stefanbernhard2710]

So true with the least offensive player comment. Also, who knows what sorts of dealings go on in the shadows. I feel like top prize winners are almost guaranteed top standing in the next competition they enter. I.e. tchaikovsky to chopin or vice versa

Very true!

[@OwenAdamsMusic]

I agree with you for the most part, but I think the information you provided SHOULD make you want to avoid national piano competitions! Like you said, it's totally arbitrary who wins, and the only benefit you get is the "excuse" to master a piece and perform it live. That's all the vast majority of non-winners get out of it, right? Real artists perform live regardless of whether they're in a competition or not, so they have no excuses! I say ONLY enter a competition if you truly don't give a $#!% whether you win or not. If being "the least offensive" is the criteria for winning 1st place, I'm happy to lose that competition lol.

Yes I totally agree with you! That’s the only way to come out of it emotionally unscathed. 👌🏻

[@OwenAdamsMusic]

@ I mean, not caring is at least better than planning on losing, haha. Thanks for the reply :D

[@jojowisa1270]

Aww pretty gentle babbyy

[@aaron_pilsan]

I would say they are important if you win and not so important if you don’t 😌

Yes, love that thought, great attitude! 🤗

[@patrickchong518]

Winners also need to be mature enough to handle a concert schedule and high pressure venues. If one is not ready, getting savaged by the critics at the Wigmore Hall or the Carnegie Hall early in your career with the press spotlights shining on you may destroy your confidence for good. Unfortunately the culture nowadays is such that competitions are a necessary evil. Kissin is the exception. Lang Lang and Yuja Wang to a lesser degree.

It’s completely true that winning a competition doesn’t necessarily prepare you for the career that might come after that. And that can be dangerous for respective winners.

[@gardenphoto]

For me - and this is entirely my own opinion - the ne plus ultra example of a botched piano competition came in 1980 when Ivo Pogorelić (no less!) did not advance to the final of the Chopin Competition! (Martha Argerich - who knows a thing or three about pianistic genius! - resigned from the jury in protest… and Paul Badura-Skoda nearly followed her lead, stating that "It was unthinkable that such an artist should not make it to the finals."). It appears that the Soviet Block officials (very much in control of Poland at the time) demanded (DEMANDED!) that a North Vietnamese pianist win the contest! And - right on schedule! - Dang Thai Son (who???), from Communist Hanoi, WON THE COMPETITION! What an outrageous and infamous farce… and a farce that has cast an irreversibly black “shadow of doubt” on ALL piano/violin/singing competitions since. Piano competitions? HUMBUG! Mike D.

Yes that is definitely a famous example of what crazy and not really understandable things can happen in a competition! ☹️

[@msagataondine9]

Dang Thai Son is an extraordinary pianist and his win was well deserved. As for the Soviet control, there were three Soviet pianists who made it to the finals who placed second, third and sixth, why not demand that one of them win? Also, just because Martha Argerich was angry and decided to storm off the jury (which catapulted Pogorelić's career almost overnight), other jurors clearly did not feel the same way about his playing and this is the reason he did not make it to the final. I am from Poland and I attended part of the 1980 competition as a music student - and what an extraordinary experience it was. I have always had mixed feeling about Pogorelić, and it just goes to show how subjective these competitions are.

[@idkdidkdkkkk]

i have one of my biggest concerts yet in just a matter of hours! im playing grade 5 piani and im really scared because im 12, is there any tips you could give me?

Have fun and try to savor and enjoy every moment! You deserve to be there and you will be great 💪🏻

[@enigmas6210]

But let's face it... the Pianists who advance to the late rounds in these major competitions really are the best of the applicants... it's usually very apparent from the beginning who will advance to the late rounds and even the final rounds.

Yes, of course there are the people that stand out quite clearly from the start, that‘s totally true!

[@Cuteo05]

The key to success is having a Bösendorfer lol

😉😂

[@Cuteo05]

How about Daniil Trifonov? He didn't win the Chopin competition but became a famous pianist.

Yes, he is truly such an incredible pianist! He also did win the Tchaikovsky competition, so another example of an amazing pianist that can sometimes win a big competition and sometimes not make it to the very top in a competition.

[@enigmas6210]

Are you even aware that he won Rubenstein and Tchaikovsky... and came in second in Chopin Competition??? He won 2 of the 3 biggest competitions and placed 2nd in the one he didn't win.

[@Cuteo05]

@@enigmas6210 Actually I like Trifonov pretty much. What I mean is that there are incredible piano artists that should be on the map and there are some other pianists that are famous (maybe it's a matter of luck / fate / charisma), Mitsuko Uchida as an example, Lang Lang also. They are super famous but not the best.

[@enigmas6210]

@@Cuteo05I agree... Trifonov is giant in the piano world and rightfully so. Even with all his well deserved fame and success he remains humble...he honors Gnessin in their great tradition....as does the legendary Kissin. I'm not so sure I agree with you about Lang Lang....I don't always agree with him musically....but he is a phenomenal talent with world class skill.... Back when he was at Curtis, Garry Graffman said that Lang Lang has the ability to learn any piano concerto in under two hours.... I think that says it all, regarding his ability. Of course he is a showman...but his showmanship I authentic...so at least I can respect it, unlike others.

[@giorgio9971]

first off, you should define what "perfect" and "personal" is, because it's not clear how the two exclude each other

What I mean by “perfect” is objectively correct and perfect playing (all the right notes, right tempo, right phrasing, right character etc.) and what I mean by “personal” is an own interpretation that maybe also rakes some risks but conveys a strong - ideally convincing- opinion on the piece (even if at the cost of one or two wrong notes). However, as you already said, they don’t necessarily exclude each other.

[@semperreg]

Lang Lang and Wang had a teacher, in the US, that didn't want them to do competition, because it takes too much time. People can be professionnal.. they don't motivate me. I go on because I think it is not possible to play so wrongly. I like Cziffra on Gnomenreigen, but not on all the répertoire. I juge how they play, no because you have a name. I noticed people worked hard, but for me they have no talent! When, in an international compettion, pianists play a mazurka or a valse which doesn't sound like it should be, before putting their personal style, they could work on basics. Everyone is not Liszt, Chopin or Paganini/Haydn.

[@tarasubramaniam6191]

There are competitions with Music by Men Composers eg Chopin Liszt.. Tchaikovsky.. Rachmsninoff But none by Best Concert pianists Clara Schumann..Fanny Henselt Amy Beach.. Lilli Boulanger Aren't music competitions a hype for only Men COMPOSERS??

That’s true that mostly male composers are being played and it is high time for us to raise awareness for the amazing works by female composers as well! I find that incredibly important and am grateful that it is being done more and more now. I also love playing Clara Schumann’s piano concerto for example. 🤗

[@NauticalStrings]

Probably corruption, I'm my own jury, you are my champion ✨

😂🙏🏻

[@robertflynn6686]

What about small kids competing say from 8 years old? Russia has a good way to make competitions for kids, fun. Pogo was the only one in that example who got a Deutsche Grsmmophone $$ ,contract. Lol😆

I think that competitions for kids are very different. It is often the event that you practice for and I agree that it can be totally fun and also a nice opportunity to perform and present your progress as a child. I did a lot of youth competitions when I was younger and I generally enjoyed them a lot!

[@paulzeng6211]

Say no to competitions unless the standard of Richter in the 20th century is re-instated. No one is required to play with Conviction, power, authority in classical music! All is required is fluffy anxious technique just passing by on stage with little to spare on interpretation. This includes everyone I have listened on youtube, smfh.

[@Mennito.31]

For the record, Claude Debussy never won the composition contest "prix de Rome", yet, he is considered a great talented composer... sometime it is the jury that is the loser, ask Martha Argerich...

Very interesting, thanks for adding the Debussy story!

[@kwixotic]

To my knowledge not one of the current best jazz pianists have ever participated in these competitions and they're not about to.

Haha exactly! 👌🏻😉 Are there even „famous“ competitions for jazz pianists? I don’t really know that area of piano competitions very well…

[@shuatock8216]

Lol, different approach to piano playing though

[@semperreg]

As I didn't know about the Pogorelich strory, I found videos of him playing Chopin and it is awful. Martha was wrong. With me, he wouldn't have passed the first round!

[@Mennito.31]

you probably play better than Martha Argerich then, other you don't really qualify

[@goletra]

Music Interpretation is subjective but in classical music it is grounded in the score, which is objective and unchanging. So I don't agree with 'inoffensive' vs 'extreme'.If one plays a cresc whereas the score says decresc it's not extreme, it is objectively wrong, even more if you play staccato when the score says slurred, for example. Pogorelich was not extreme, he was objectively wrong. That's why he was eliminated.

I completely agree with you saying that you can objectively be wrong if you simply do the opposite of what is written in the score. The score and the composer’s indications should absolutely be respected. However, I do believe that within the “objectively right” playing, there is still a lot of room for freedom and you can sound both inoffensive or more daring while playing “objectively right”. I think it’s more a question of character, colours, taking risks, minimal rubato, stuff like that. Thanks for watching 🙏🏻

[@imagomundiful]

Pogorelich aside... Classical music before the age where we have actual performance proof of how it is played (hystorical recordings from the age of the composer) and is notated exactly can be objective. Anything beyond/before that is a combination of the score, intuition, guesswork and (distorted) performance practice tradition. I have worked with composers and even for thoroughly notated musics the percentage of "objectivity" is much lower than performers like to idealize. This bias comes from a situation where performance and creation are split and where there is also a big distance in time between repertoire and performer. Bringing back Pogorelich...I personally prefer a deeply personal performance than a boring one. Btw, it is not objectivity correct to even play Bach on a grand 😅 so what is repertoire before Rachmaninoff even doing on the lists of "objective" competitions?

[@goletra]

@@imagomundiful I think the guiding principle is one _should_ seek out the composer's intention, but whether or not you follow it is a different matter. I agree that Bach on the grand piano is not 'authentic', but considering his lifelong practice of transcribing music to/from different instruments, I think it can be viewed as playing a transcription of the original material.

[@pR-ms4cr]

Woke?