The TRUTH about Tesla V4 - 500 kW Superchargers | ⛔NO BUSBAR⛔

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Tesla recently revealed NEW V4 Supercharging Power Cabinet details that will allow the Tesla Cybertruck to charge at up to 500 kW, or the Tesla Semi at up to 1.2 MW! However, Tesla made a controversial decision with this hardware that has some in the Tesla community disappointed. In this video I share the truth about Tesla's new V4 hardware including the lack of a DC busbar and why that matters.
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NOTE: The content found in this video should NOT be regarded as financial advice. I am not a financial advisor, and this is NOT in any way a recommendation or offer to buy or sell securities. While the information in this video is believed to be accurate at the time of recording, no guarantees are being made about the accuracy of the information presented in the video. As of the recording of this video, I am NOT invested in Tesla stock or securities, nor any other company mentioned in this video.

[@Cleanerwatt]

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[@dylanmcruse]

On the off chance a site has 8 cars all show up at the same time on with 5% left all the time, they will just add another 8 chargers and V4 cabinet. There will still be no need for the bus bar. But the reality is that even at a full 8 chargers they will all be at different charge states. The problem with the old V2 is that regardless of the state of a charged car it would statically split the 150 to 75 . V4 is dynamic.

[@ourkaravan]

Tesla supercharger = working nearly all the time. Everyone else = 50/50 chance.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Great point! Reliability is so very important.

[@paradigmshift7]

Exactly, I dont know how people buying EVs without NACS dont see the importance of this.

[@Cybertruck_69]

The BC Hydro chargers have been reliable.

[@essentials1016]

only in the us!

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

And if they don't work it doesn't matter cause there are still 10 or 22 or 40 other stalls that work fine.

[@astewart1900]

If the cost savings of not having a busbar enables deploying more V4 superchargers sooner I’m all for it. On road trips my 2018 Model 3 LR already typically finishes charging in about the same amount of time it takes me to go in and use the restroom and purchase my snacks and drinks.

[@dh-1399]

I think the v4 cabinet is likely rated for 1200kva which would put it right at the 80% mark of a 1500 transformer. The reason for dropping the bus bar might be because the v4 cabinets are optimized for sharing a megapack’s output rather than each others.

[@Mr_Nobody_CA]

Reliability should be number one goal vs charging speed.

[@user-to2rf1rj5v]

13:00 the curve has been updated since this chart was made...it holds 250 up to 30% now

[@junehanzawa5165]

That graph, updated or not, was from a 400V charging cabinet. It's not an 800V charging graph. Once these 800V cabinets are paired with the V4 stalls, the hope is that Tesla opens up the "true" 800V charging curve on the Cybertruck. In other words, it needs to hold over 300kW to at least 50%, or it will be upstaged by the Chevy 800V charging EV trucks, which hold 350kW around 25%, then 300kW to around 50% SoC; and the 2025 Taycan, which holds over 300kW to around 62% SoC, then stays over 200kW to around 75%. Anything less will place Tesla's first 800V vehicle clearly behind those from other manufacturers, which is not a good look for the pioneer of the true modern EV that changed the industry.

[@larryspiller15]

It doesnt need to beat the charge curve of the gms. The cybertruck pack is 123kWh, the Gms are around 200kWh. To match the capability of eachother you need to adjust by the appropriate ratio. The cybertruck is also more efficient by a significant margin, because of that even when the ratio is applied the cybertruck would still be adding more range over the same time. Its not as simple as you think. ​@junehanzawa5165

[@GregHassler]

Diffused over 8 stalls there is no need for a DC bus. If a site has 16 stalls it's highly unlikely that that one of the two v4 power cabinets will be significantly overloaded compared to the other. The v4 cabinet can incrementally supply power as needed to each stall. Tesla has enormous amounts of charging usage data.

[@GregHassler]

A single V4 cabinet can provide 56% more power to each stall than 2 DC bus connected V3 cabinets if all 8 stalls are occupied by vehicles pulling full power. This is significant.

[@whattheschmidt]

Isn't the DC bus gone because the V4 charger can do 400-1000V charging?

[@GeoQuacks]

Remember that the V4 cabinet supplies 8 stalls, so it's already like 2 V3 cabinets linked with a busbar but each having 600 kW rather than 350. The greater the number of stalls a cabinet supplies and the higher its max power divided by the number of stalls the less likely it will need additional power from another cabinet. I think this makes sense. I wonder if this means that the number of stalls per site will now be in multiples of 8 or if they will sometimes provision a cabinet with less than the 8 maximum.

[@GeoQuacks]

Probably more likely to be power limited at a 16 stall V3 site than a 16 stall V4. To have anyone significantly slower 8 cars would have to all plug into one cabinet, even then it's only 175 vs 150 kw V3 to V4. If one car is on the other V4 cabinet the minimum speed of the remaining 7 is about the same as all 8 cars on the V3 with the bonus of the one car getting 250. If there's more than 8 cars wanting max power the V4 will always be better. I think this is more a theoretical limit than an actual one until we have many more vehicles that can hold 350 plus kW for a good portion of their charge curve (and probably fewer slow ones too.)

[@w0ttheh3ll]

This video would be a lot more useful with a basic circuit diagram. Where exactly does the bus bar sit? How are different voltages distributed to the cars?

[@maxwellrobinson2924]

good efficiency findings on tesla engineers, noticing that they dont need all stalls to deliver max power at the same time, like you said - that would only ever occur if all stalls were plugged in at the same time and all vehicles were low enough to pull their full power....and only that would occur for a few minutes.

[@nullpointer782]

I think the worries about the v4 setup are overblown. How often do 8 vehicles with a low state of charge arrive at the same time at 8 empty stalls and plug in at the same time? Not a problem. You ALWAYS have several cars sitting there charging past 80%, taking basically no juice. The most common way this problem will appear is you plug in with low SOC and only get 200, and that will be rare.

[@GregHassler]

Exactly, Tesla has the data. My Model 3 hits like 253 kW max but only for about 90 seconds if that. The DC bus is an appreciable expense with the copper and separate conduits required.

[@junehanzawa5165]

​@@GregHassler The issue comes into play with 800V vehicles, which have much longer and higher charging curves. For example, the Chevy EV trucks which hold 0ver 300kW to around 50% SoC, and the 2025 Taycan which stays over 300kW to around 62% SoC, then stays over 200kW to around 75% SoC. So the Cybertruck, which is 800V, needs to come close to these curves. Even the E-GMP vehicles hold well over 200kW past 50% SoC. And the future from now on, is 800V. Even for Tesla. The next refresh of the X and S will be 800V architecture. It's the whole point of the V4 stalls and the 800V plus V4 charging cabinets.

[@boostav]

@@GregHassler Yes, they have outdated data. Tesla has fallen way behind on charging power in their vehicles, you've got Porsche, Silverado and many Chinese EVs already holding 300 plus kW flat. The Koreans also hold above 200kW flat. Just imagine in a couple years how common that will be.

[@205rider8]

Any new EV that is made without NACS and the charge port on the left rear or right front demonstrates poor engineering.

[@robertsmart7484]

You forgot to add "intended for sale in the US". There are other car markets in the world.

[@_wat2do]

I think it will be fine without a busbar. Might throttle a bit on very busy holidays, but overall i think its better to have simpler setup to make them build more chargers and more reliable.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Honestly, improving charging curves will be more important overall. Also, if this allows Tesla to deploy more charging locations and stalls - I'm all for it. We really still more locations deployed than super fast chargers. Once there is a charger ever 30-50 miles along all major highways and interstates - we can look at making them faster. Right now the Midwest really needs some holes plugged.

[@jimdouthett7807]

I am thinking of the worst case scenario where 1 V4 cabinet in involved combined with where 8 Cybertrucks are going to charge from less than 10% charge at exactly the same time. I see loading the 8 charging stalls to be similar to passengers boarding a plane. Are the CTs going to go to the last stall in line so they can minimize stall loading time. Probably not! More likely it will be a free for all. I guess it will take 2-4 minutes for all 8 CTs to get hooked up to a charge post in the best scenario. Only then would the balance of the estimated 7 minutes of +150KV X 8 charging load be realized. In this unlikely scenario, it might be 3-5 minutes of maximum exposure to reduced charging rate. Hardly worth spending extra money to mitigate.

[@satoshimanabe2493]

8 Cybertrucks starting to charge at the same time also requires all 8 stalls to be empty...which sounds extremely unlikely to begin with. Still, a possible software mitigation is to prioritize vehicles in the order connected, so they charge faster. Any CT you get below the 150kW point (~40%SoC) makes more power available to others, so this staggered arrangement allows the max 1.2MW to be delivered for a longer period. This also staggers completion, so the next set of vehicles won't run into this issue at all. I definitely agree no busbar makes sense. Especially when V4 is already the equivalent of 3 or 4 V3 cabinets bussed together.

[@mike_realityi]

Thank you. I am just starting to think about getting into EVs and learning more about the Supercharger network is important for me.

[@jackcoats4146]

I would like to see the cabinets have a 'PowerPack' built in, to have a 'mini-Gigapack' available almost everywhere, even if a full gigapack might not fit the economics.

[@Dave-ei7kk]

Lots of cool things could happen if we ignored the economics.

[@junehanzawa5165]

Large charging sites out west have, and are getting, battery megapacks, if that's what you're reffering to. One being built right now will have 30 megawatts of battery storage total and will have close to 200 stalls with it's own mini solar farm. Not gigapacks. Gigapacks have enough power to power cities, way overkill for ANY charging site no matter how large.

[@205rider8]

Screw the no DC bus complainers. Tesla knows more than they do.

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

They have the data.

[@darylfortney8081]

They need to start focusing on central and South America

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

They don't need to, since it is a small market compared to China, North America, Europe and Asia. If you focus on everything, you are not focusing. But they will. Chile got on the Supercharger map this year. They seem to go country by country.

[@darylfortney8081]

@ but they do need to because im planning a cybertruck road trip from Alaska to Patagonia for next summer.

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

@@darylfortney8081 That is an excellent point. Bring some adapters! There are CCS1 chargers all the way to Colombia and CCS2 from then on. 😁

[@davidhawkins7138]

Good analysis as usual.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Thank you!

[@DiegoMejia86]

If you compare 99% uptime to a calendar year of 365 days, it means that for about 3.65 days a year, Tesla Superchargers won’t charge at maximum speed. Interestingly, those days tend to coincide with high-traffic times like Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year. The math checks out, right? 😊

[@adrwong8]

I've had a Tesla MY for 2 years and I can count the number of times I supercharge with my fingers and toes. I'd rather have more sites (at cheaper cost per site) than faster speeds but less sites. On road trips, there aren't enough options for stops in rural areas.

[@kootenayevfamily4208]

What they forgot about with their “1% of the time” data is that bigger EVs is likely to skew that number higher in the future. My Model 3 can only pull >150kW for maybe 10 mins, whereas my R1T will pull over that for well over 20mins.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

DATA DRIVEN🧐EFFICIENT 👍😎⚡️⚡️⚡️

[@alborzdesign]

There's one missing point in your argument. When you said "if 8 cybertrucks pull to a supercharger at once" that's only a problem if they are all at less than 20% to be limited. In reality, that is a very unlikely scenario. Tesla engineers have much higher data than you and I do. Their decision to remove the busbar, most likely results in lower costs, faster manufacturing, and as a result more charging stations overall which is ideal. In the unlikely scenario that 8 cybertrucks pull to a V4 500kW supercharger at the same time all with 15% state of charge, then they can charge slower. that's fine.

[@boballen9095]

Excellent explanation. Thanx. Just a suggestion - try to get a better sponsor - levitating pen? Really?

[@Cleanerwatt]

It really is a cool pen.

[@georgedoolittle9015]

*"no degradation with the bus bar"* yes this makes sense. My guess would be security issues with V-4 *"crawl walk run"* but yes true to say the money is there quite suddenly as is the security system presumably 😊😊

[@panosgk7131]

Although if you are a taycan you can pretty much hold 270kw until 60-80% depending temp with a peak of 320kw so I’d does make a huge difference. While now most cars have a continuous of about 150kw in the future it certainly won’t be the case. 4 stalls for each cabinet would be better 😊

[@jamesdubben3687]

Can these new V4 sites be upgraded with the bus bar between the cabinets in the future?

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

Unlikely. But they will be replaced by V6 chargers at some point, and who knows what they will have?

[@205rider8]

Lower the cost per site then add more sites.

[@Miata822]

I have long expected the V4 rollout to stall, or at least go forward very slowly. Why? Because Tesla's best competition (Porsche, Hyundai/KIA, Rivian, and Lucid) all can make best use of the V4's capability.

[@sallerc]

Thx for the video, but the screenshot at 6:07 was too small, hard to read

[@TheNewAccount2008]

I think Tesla should invest more time trying to improve the charging curve. With the current range of EVs I charge at least to 80% on my supercharger stops when I am on a road trip. Otherwise I have to stop WAY too often. And getting to that 80% is really a pain, no matter what generation supercharger you are on. They should try to hold at least 100 KW until 85%...

[@thedownwardmachine]

I’d rather have a flat 150kW curve than a quick 500kW peak

[@Cybertruck_69]

Often the kW rating is not achieved in the car unless it is at a low SoC and the battery has been preconditioned. Until the Batteries and car chargers get better it isn’t helpful to have even 250kw. I wish Tesla engineers would add the ability to turn on battery preconditioning manually for third party chargers. There are no Tesla chargers available in the north and north west of BC so we are forced to use these chargers yet we have no way to precondition. This sucks.

[@SolarTechFL]

Ludicrous plus mode preconditions

[@Michael-Has-Opinions]

Cleanerwatt voice causes me to grind my teeth.

[@barryw9473]

Tesla cars tend to peak early and for a short period of time. Other brands tend to hold their max rate for a longer period of time. Taycan occupying 2 stalls and three Ioniq 5s would max out site if all 4 were below 50%. More e-gmp cars would also be a problem. We shall see how this new design works out as more and more cars get 800 V architecture.

[@Cody-hx1uq]

Whats high quality about a notebook? I stick my pen in a small chunk of 2x4 with a drill hole at a 23.5 angle. Its a bic

[@blazbohinc4964]

My two cents are this - 250kW is enough. We need batteries that can charge at 250kW deep into the battery pack. So you can actually come to the charger at 10% and rip at 250kW the whole way to 70-80%- But even my 2024 model y only accepts 250kW up to sth like 25% and then drops off significantly, only accepting 100kW at 60%.. we need better charging curves.

[@zarroth]

sounds like the internet...up to XYZ speeds! but you'll only get half of that, or less...No guarantees.

[@stevedrawdy2532]

Charge Speed > Range when it comes to road tripping and EV.

[@johnpoldo8817]

Tesla is able to log how many times the bus bar was needed for additional power. I suspect they discovered it was a very small amount of time and not worth the cost. I much prefer Tesla reliability and slightly lower charging cost vs other charging brands.

[@Patriot3]

Oh my gosh, tesla owners are disappointed. That can't be, do tell.

[@gbinman]

Not concerned. The complication of optimizing and courtesy by choosing the best stall is something Tesla could handle by providing the driver with information about with stall would the best choice.

[@bnkwupt]

Complete non-issue. Even a fully loaded V4 set will provide 150 kW per vehicle. Also, V3.5 is now becoming capable of 325 kW on Cybertrucks. Max is the new head of the Tesla Charging team.

[@Golf_Cart_Customization]

Job security...once Tesla and other users of the network improve charging curves, they will make bus bars great again on V5.

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

Yes, but it will become irrelevant again in V6. 😅

[@davidbeppler3032]

Makes sense to me. Tesla made the right choice. Again.

[@ryan6391]

4680 has fairly poor charging speeds, I hope they will improve this soon.

[@TomTom-cm2oq]

Great explanation! Thank you for this; you are fantastic!!!

[@Cleanerwatt]

Thanks - I am glad it was helpful!

[@mariusmeyer14]

It's funny how you try and 'sugar coat' the poor decision of TESLA not to busbar the stalls.

[@TeslaElonSpaceXFan]

Tesla SUC ❤

[@RandallLorenz]

You should listen to yourself, please tell laymen how many miles / minute of charging this equates to.

[@SparkySho]

This video is evidence why ur one of the BBEST on utube

[@johnlabernik4599]

This essentially guarantees that Tesla charging curves aren’t changing anytime soon. Sad.

[@davidlloyd1526]

Yeah - not supporting Elon. Sorry!

[@MB-fu8pu]

Eventually you’ll have no choice but to

[@patches8291]

Good don’t douche bag

[@GregHassler]

If you want a poorer experience for yourself for no reason, great.

[@matthewwhite8129]

Enjoy your electrify America experience 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@NvidiaRTX5080]

There are much better reasons to not buy a Tesla. Politics is the only homo one.