The TRUTH about the 2nd & 11th Primarch Legions | Warhammer 40K Lore | DeeBeeGeek Reacts

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[@TheBoneZone40k]

I comically enough just uploaded a video about Malice the 5th chaos god like last week Side note Thanks for the react, also like, it's so cringe seeing all my old videos haha

[@InquisitorKryptman]

Word Bearers are awesome, I'd recommend the First Heretic.

[@KeroHiro-Lil]

We all come from somewhere Mr. Bones. Can you see where you have improved? Its genuinely noticeable.

[@KiwiSpartan01]

Just in time for my Sons of Malice army

[@lieutenantartus]

the fact that when Horus tried mentioning one of the lost brothers' name, Malcador, a human wizard, force choked his throat closed and almost killed him. The Khan had to plead with Malcador for his brothers' life.The mental image of a frail old human forcing a gigantic demigod to his knees for daring to almost utter a name, is really badass and also hilarious

[@lord_azatoth]

Not just old man, but the top3 human psyker

[@RockwellSocratese]

Malkador was a Perpetual, the same subspecies of Human that the Emperor is.

[@Motorcitynights]

Malcador is not just a human imo. Isn't he a perpetual and the greatest human pysker of all time since the shaman?

[@lord_azatoth]

@@Motorcitynights Erda is seemingly stronger, but also more distanced from active showing her strength

[@ShadowGhost0117]

Don’t forget, Alpharius was there too. He was practically raised by Malcador, and was also pleading in that scene.

[@shadow8928]

"Nobody needs to know" Yes Your Lordship Inquisitor, that guy right there.

[@facetankhank]

@@shadow8928 You serve proudly and with zeal. You will go far in the inquisition, son.

[@hantumann4r449]

Knock knock knock INQUISITOR OPEN UP!

[@anubis1939]

Leman Russ/The Emperors Executioner at the beginning of The Horus Heresy: ‘There’s a first time for everything.’ ‘Exactly,’ he grunts. ‘The unprecedented. Like…Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’ ‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’ - Prospero Burns

[@alphalegionloyalist]

Sandman of Terra has a great video that basically covers all of the in-lore references to the 2 lost primarchs, if you are interested in hearing more about what has actually been written, as opposed to speculation.

[@Sorain1]

Yeah, that was a very solid and complete list of the lore we do have.

[@chriswalsh6893]

Yea he’s quite good baldomort is also pretty good 😊

[@DamienDrake2940]

Personal Lore: The 2 lost legions were hidden by the Emperor as one of his many failsafe to protect mankind. One legion would be responsible for preserving the knowledge and truth that is now seen as heretical. The other would be sleeper agents spread throughout all areas of the Imperium to resist against the agents of Chaos that would infiltrate and corrupt everything. Blood Ravens would be the legion to preserve knowledge, while the Silent Watch haven't been covered yet.

[@privatetrolldier5640]

So the legions were hidden as two legions while they were actually part of two other primarchs.

[@BarnaclePD]

They've pretty much all but confirmed that the Blood Ravens are just loyalist Thousand Sons.

[@drulndribl4611]

Since we know where GW is heading, I tell you, it will be revealed that those were - Dan Da Daaan - female legions. Ah, I can imagine community rage already :)

[@Dr.Mlieko]

@@drulndribl4611 Not really, they just let the deal with Amazon fall through because Amazon wanted them to add female Space Marines and rewrite the existing Primarchs

[@cailco100]

Blood Ravens have all but been confirmed as Thousand sons successors.

[@TocTeplv]

They farted in front of the emperor. Otherwise I dont know what else they might have done to surpass traitor Primarch's misdeeds.

[@FandomChronicle]

I'm eating, you can't just drop a line like that man😂

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

It’s possible that one of them just fell when fighting Xenos during the great crusade

[@maximuspraetoria7480]

My theory is that they discovered chaos as 'divine beings' before lorgar and Horus did, so the emperor removed them before they could spread the corruption to other legions. The other primarchs already knew of malevolent entities of the warp, just not their names, and not by the name of daemons and chaos gods, stated in master of mankind.

[@featherdragon7894]

My assumption is that the emperor wouldn’t memory hole half of the space marines while their still fighting them (what good is giving the enemy all the tactical advantage they could want), then was slapped onto the throne before the wide scale mindwipe could happen.

[@TocTeplv]

None of this secrecy is relevant after Horus Heresy. Being possessed , brainwashed, degeneres, perverted or defeated and killed is nothing special anymore

[@kingkong381]

4:02 There's a ton of vague hints and suggestions in more recent books, but yeah for the most part there is no info on the missing Primarchs. The real out-of-universe reason for this is so that fans can have a blank page in which to homebrew their own lore, especially for people who make up their own Space Marine chapters.

[@captin3149]

My headcanon is that Horus framed them for something in a way that caused the Emperor to wipe them out, and when it was later discovered that Horus did so, the Emperor wiped out all mention of them to hide the shame of being so completely wrong

[@T57Custodian]

My theory is this. They are named once the purged and the forgotten. I believe the legion of the damned is the purged legion and they were killed to be sent to the sea of souls and act as the demons of the Emperor. Hence why some of the primarchs are seen as sad likey because they did it but clearly shown to have been manipulated somehow. The forgotten could be anything. Know idea.

[@howlingbeast3x6]

The one thing that I must insist is true in all the theories is that Leman Russ killed at least one of the 2 lost primarchs, if not both. He was called the Emperor's Executioner. It gives a huge amount of depth to his character, as well as the space wolves

[@ILovedarkspeakerman]

Bro you send leeman when you want to make a statement that's what he is as a executioner if you want no one to come back alive and dont tell shit you send the lion he is the emperors exterminator.

[@flyingflamingflamingos3793]

I like being more mysterious and having no hard answers on the second and eleventh legion personally. Here's an interesting clue to what the missing legions might have been like, each legion has another "redundant" legion that has the same speciality, and if we pair them all up, there's two legions without a redundancy: Dark Angels + Alpha Legion: both super secretive, being the "hidden blades" Emperors Children + Iron Hands: both obsessed with perfection, just different paths to acquiring it Iron Warriors + Imperial Fists: both specialize in defences, just one got slotted in the role of bringing them down and the other for building them up Night Lords + Raven Guard: both specialize in stealthy ambush tactics White Scars + Space Wolves: both opt for speed and hit and run tactics Blood Angels + World Eaters: both blood thirsty melee, classic nurture over nature story between the two Ultramarines + Word Bearers: both r more administrative than combat focused Death Guard + Salamanders: both have mutations and tactics giving them better odds on death worlds or toxic inhospitable planets That means the only two without a redundancy, r the Sons of Horus and Thousand Sons. Meaning, most likely one of the missing legions was more psycher heavy like the Thousand Sons, and one of the missing is legions was more offensive focused like the Sons of Horus, which makes sense, the Soul Drinkers chapter, while they were with the Imperial Fists specialized in aggressive offensive boarding actions, meaning they were probably from the legion redundant from the Sons of Horus.

[@Knight-Bishop]

Another psyker faction makes total sense given how Big E's relationship with Magnus seemed to change dramatically "off-screen" during the Great Crusade. They went from basically as close as he was with Horus if not closer, as they'd conversed psychically since Magnus was in the gestation pod, to keeping him at arm's length in both regards. Magnus was also probably THE primarch he could've risked mentioning his webway project and future of the golden throne while it was still in progress, I'd imagine the big reason why he didn't was Magnus would push to help, and he wasn't ready to do so. As for shock troops... Yeah that also kinda makes sense. The Blood Angels pre-Sanguinius were nearly made lost legion #3 for the stuff that they did; I can only imagine that whichever one was the other shock trooper legion might've been so brutal and animalistic that they were just uncontrollable and causing more damage than they were worth. Hell, they might've simply come out a little too similar to the Thunder Warriors; after all the effort to improve upon them, what would Big E do if one of the Astartes wasn't much of an improvement?

[@kennyburkamp4054]

Well actually the death guard are the psycher there primarch was a powerful psycher and they had a good deal of psychers it just there primarch didn't like psychers refused to use his psychic powers and forbidden it to his leigon or killed them I can't remember if he killed them or not

[@Wolfbroa]

On I thinking was thousand sons and angron, like before angron one who was a healer and made me think what if one primarch was a psyker that knew necromancy like got thousand sons who are the psyker faction very open and use of their abilities and angron who is a healer a person take or deals with power of healing magic could maybe in desperation or curiosity he searched for way to try bring back those he failed to heal and ended up with necromancy as it’s technically healing just few hours late is all lmao

[@flyingflamingflamingos3793]

@@kennyburkamp4054 many legions have psycher Primarchs and psychers in their legion without being a psycher specialized legion. Also I could be wrong but as far as I know Death Guard geneseed makes a space marine that's more resistant to contagion and toxins, while I Thousand Sons geneseed is the only one that will actually turn a non-psycher into a psycher, showing it's not just their doctrines, but what the Emperor put it into their geneseed for their intended purposes

[@flyingflamingflamingos3793]

@@Wolfbroa I like to think the whole healing thing was meant to offshoot his legions innate bloodlust, much like how Sanguinius was able to completely 180 his legions reputation, Angron was meant to do the same and teach his legion restraint and empathy, but instead everyone got nails in their head

[@aganaom1712]

"You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. i wasn't"

[@davisiotta489]

-Malcador the f4ck1ng hero

[@michaelrivera6220]

they actually think female siblings fight between themselves less than men, whoever wrote that bit of lore clearly doesn't have sisters😂

[@velstadtvonausterlitz2338]

​​@@michaelrivera6220 malcador is biased, because he had a wonderful childhood with a good biological mother, and the emperor saw through his bs.

[@DiscoLem0nad3]

Its funny because any attempt to girlboss 40k...they still bow to men regardless.

[@davidgutierrez3856]

​​@@michaelrivera6220 Or it's just Malcador who didn't have sisters.

[@treydudley7966]

Some of the main characters in the Horus Heresy series are human rememberancers, basically historians, artists, journalists, &c of the 31st millennium who were supposed to capture the triumph of the Great Crusade and preserve it for posterity. Given the events of the Horus Heresy, all that they recorded got a little messed up. Given that context, we are told by GW that all information that comes from Black Library books are supposed to be from the perspective of those rememberancers and scholars of the imperium who came afterward to interpret what was left. All information is unreliable and there are supposed to be gaps. However, interestingly enough, according to Aaron Demski Bowden, a former Black Library author (including multiple HH novels), in a reddit post from years back, GW does in fact have a complete archive of all the lore and history of the Warhammer 30k/40k universe, and they intentionally do not explain it to fans because the mystery is part of what gets people hooked.

[@KitbashChaos]

My theory has always been that one of them (or both) tried to rebel and was stopped before it went far, so they were able to wipe it from the records. Unlike horus. His rebellion was big enough that they couldn't cover it up. The other theory is that one (or both) of them committed the heresy of getting killed by a xenos during the rangdan xenocide. And we can't let people know that Primarchs are not invincible. So they just never existed.

[@maximuspraetoria7480]

14:37 those things are called Enslavers, warp entitities who almost took over the galaxy just before the necrons went for their millions of years old nap. They are one of the many reasons the necrons went to sleep.

[@thegunman2841]

Malice is an antichaos god, he is the god of renegades and thus often makes chaos turn upon each other. Another minor chaos entity is Vashtorr, who is currently seeking becoming a major chaos god. Vashtorr is essentially the engineer of chaos, he creates all of the corrupted demonic mechs and tank designs for the chaos legions. There are also Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar, but they're rarely mentioned if at all.

[@Shideous]

With GW you need to redefine the concept of "soon". If it happens within 5 years it is "rushed", in 10 years it "coming soon", 15 years it "being worked on" and 20+ years "We thinking about it".

[@MisterWinkie01]

During a Q & A with Rick Priestley (he's one of the original game designers for Games Workshop since GW's inception), according to him the 2nd and 11th Legions were meant to be unknown and mysterious and never meant to create your own legions. I personally like that it's kept as vague - there's a lot of things that are best left up to ones own imagination on the fates of these two legions and their primarchs.

[@GekkeGeitjes]

I remember reading that a primarch mentioned the lost primarchs got Russ unleashed on them similar to what happened to the thousand sons

[@lllKRENDELLLlll]

In short, what happened to the two primarchs was explained to the screenwriters of the idea of 20 primarchs with their legions. The screenwriter (I don't remember his name) said: "I created 18 primarchs and 2 mystical primarchs, i.e. virtually absent from the ent in order to create a riddle." Further, this screenwriter left the GW along with the rights to the idea, and the GW without the rights to the idea now cannot continue this story, and something else cannot be created because this ENT is the best in the wh40k. When the GW could not develop the story with the two primarchs, they continued it through short dialogues in the books, from which it can be understood that the 2 and 11 primarchs were either traitors or succumbed to heresy. The dialogue between Malcador Sigillit and Rogal Dorn suggests that there is an alley with statues of primarchs in the walls of the emperor's palace, where 2 and 11 statues are covered with cloth and all data about them has been deleted from the archives. Primarch Rogal Dorn accuses Malcador of killing the 2nd and 11th primarchs and making everyone who remembered them forget. Malcador says that Rogal Dorn himself asked Malcador to erase Rogal Dorn's memories of them because these memories tormented Rogal Dorn. Bottom line: the 2nd and 11th primarchs either betrayed or succumbed to corruption and this event is so bad and difficult to perceive that it is literally forbidden to talk about them and even one of the primarchs asked to erase his memories of the 2nd and 11th primarchs.

[@Fusspilzsammler1]

Sons of Malice are being renamed in Schrödingers Sons

[@lylehigg]

10:18 What's even funnier about Leman Russ being designed to kill primarchs is that every time he fights a primarch in the horus heresy he gets absolutely bodied. Admittedly, he was designed to fight primarchs and not primarchs juiced up on chaos, but still.

[@ILovedarkspeakerman]

Well he did body magnus and angron like lorgar said he didn't win they had him surrounded but they chose to retreat horus was just horus and also he didn't intend to kill horus

[@lylehigg]

15:45 There's also a fan alternate universe called "The Dornian Heresy" where Rogal Dorn of the Imperial Fists is the one who fell to chaos and all the current loyal legions turned traitor and the current traitor legions stayed loyal. It's a super cool "what if" universe, especially since the Emperor actually suspected Dorn of turning traitor so he sent a contingent of Space Wolves to watch over him for signs of betrayal.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

4:59 that’s not a Rangda it’s a Slaugth, there’s no art of a Rangda

[@harmontp]

DONT LOOK UP THE SLAUGTH.

[@clamoreistesaeculum6988]

Just google “40k golden throne” and the first picture. Zoom in under Emps' left hand on the skull there is a number two. I think the second ones sacrificed themselves to kickstart the throne or they helped build it because alien stuff is built into it. they just had to disappear

[@GaryP336]

I worked at gw when that book was done. The art work was done with the missing legions numbers in the skulls to (and I quote): "just to fuck with people"

[@Giovith13]

Heresy detected. An inquisitor will be with you in 1-20 decades.

[@onepunchbud1472]

I think it's perfect they (GW) don't explain what happened to the 2 lost legions. I was at that point (wanted to know it myself) many years ago and now i think it's so much cooler to leave that open and you see how many great theories come up. I hope they never will fill in details about the lost Legions. Imagine you get an explanation which is not as good as you thought. And then there is the thing that so much knowledge in the 40k universe is forgotten. Technology and much more. Thousands of years passed and there has to be stuff which is not known. It's perfect... You need to be MUCH longer in the fanbase to appreciate this 😉 We need mysteries like these.

[@Sophie-mv7bd]

I think you misspelled Primarch there deebee, the primarchs are the emperor's 20.. i mean 18/19 sons and demigods of humanity and Primark is a popular clothing store but maybe the primarchs would shop there

[@DeeBeeGeek]

I have no idea what you are talking about……. 🫥

[@legendofliamd]

Primarch: Son of Big E Primark: Clothing store, pretty sure its here in Ireland, maybe

[@Sophie-mv7bd]

@@legendofliamd im pretty sure in ireland its called something else but in britain where i am its primark

[@Nuktahl]

It would be a horrible mistake if GW started explaining what happened to the 2nd and 11th legion. All your interest in the legions is due to that there is no information. When you learned about the different legions and Bricky explained why there are no longer here, you'd simply say ok, next legion. The charm of it is, that it is unknown, because it makes your mind wander to what could have happened.

[@EvenSteven]

But now it is more of what on earth could they have done that was so bad that they got fully erased from existence. Meanwhile Horus started a massive civil war and tore the imperium apart and "killed" the emperor. But yet all those traitor primarchs are still known, so what could have been worse then that

[@Nuktahl]

@@EvenSteven It doesn't have to be worse than Horus for them to be classified. It simply has to be less known for it to be covered up. If all the traitor legions were defeated to the point where they would no longer exist, then you'd over time likely see a similar outcome, that their records would be erased. You can't erase the knowledge of Horus since the traitor legions still attacks the Imperium.

[@danylonazarov]

There's one mention of seperate 2nd primarch in one of Fulgrim books - Fulgtim refered to him as "usually silent master of the Second" and that he was humorless. Guess that's the most concrete lore we'll get

[@niksnap]

Here are some actual quotes from books: 1) "The second and eleventh plinths had been vacant for a long time. No one ever spoke of those two absent brothers. Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations. Had they, in fact, been warnings that no one had heeded?" - Primarch Rogal Dorn, in the falls of the Kath Mandau Precinct, Imperial Palace, Terra 2) "Brother," said Magnus, ignoring Mortarion's words. "A great day is it not? Nine sons of the Emperor gathered together on one world, such a thing has not happened since..." "I know well when it was, Magnus," said Mortarion, his voice robust and resolute in contrast to his pallid features. "And the Emperor forbade us to speak of it again. Do you disobey that command?" 3) "I fear the Emperor will break the Word Bearers -- and break me. We would be cast alongside the brothers we no longer speak of." - Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers talking to Magnus the Red, primarch of the Thousand Sons 4) "But the Eleventh Legion -" "Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I'm not saying I don't feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we'd unwrite a shameful future." Dagotal cleared his throat. "And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers." Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing. "What?" Dagotal asked the others. "You were thinking it, too. It's no secret." "Those are just rumours." Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn't sound particularly certain. "Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were 'forgotten' by Imperial archives." - A conversation between Word Bearers of the Gal Vorbak of the Serrated Sun Chapter 5) "But why have you kept this from our father? If any living being could know the key to it, it would be him!" Sanguinius rounded on Horus, his seraphic features hardening. "You know the reason!" He answered with a snarl. "I will not be responsible for the erasure of the Blood Angels from Imperial history. I will not have a third empty plinth beneath the roof of the Hegemon as my Legion's only memorial!" 6) "I believe their operation and conduct should be reported to the Council of Terra, pending censure or dissolution. It wouldn't be the first time a Legion Astartes has overstepped the mark, after all." - Chayne talking to Lord General Namatijira

[@niksnap]

7) "It will mean the Wolves will be loosed again." - Evander Gregoras, the Master of the Cryptaesthesians 8) (Emperor) "You and your brothers were taken from me by denizens of the Warp before you were ready." "Brothers?" Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor's answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again. "Yes, you have brothers," said the Emperor, smiling at His son's delight. "Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations." "Seventeen?" Corvus asked, confused."I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?" The Emperor's expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied. "The other two." He said. "That is a conversation for another day." 9) "Twice before the Emperor has purged His own progeny and every living soul within the legions that followed them." - a Dreadnought of the World Eaters Legion's XIV Chapter to Centurion Mago 10) "I was one of twenty. Two failed. Half the rest turned on my father. The Emperor is not infallible, nor am I." - Roboute Guilliman 11) "The warriors were not at fault. The science is not at fault. Their primarchs were. Chapters from your gene-line have also fallen in the past millennia, Lord Regent, and we do not censor them." - artificial intelligence of Belisarius Cawl to Roboute Guilliman, when he was asking to use "questionable gene-stocks" to found new Chapters. 12) "Fulgrim made mention of it, once. Apparently one of the two Forgotten Ones was said to have led an expedition to its black heart, in the early centuries of the Great Crusade. Though why he was out this far, and what he might've found, was never recorded." He frowned. "Probably for the best. The galaxy has devils enough without letting out whatever resides there." - Legionnaires of the Emperor's Children 13) He forced Horus down onto his knees. ‘ Mal… ’ the stricken primarch choked. ‘ M-Mal… al… ’ The Sigillite’s face twisted into a vengeful rictus. He felt the old, familiar rage beginning to stir, deep in his undying soul. ‘Enough. You will be silent, or I will unmake you, here and now.’ Horus’ windpipe closed with a sickly crackle. His right eye bloomed red as a blood vessel burst in the sclera. But still he would not relent. So defiant. So… So… ungrateful… - Malcador angrily used his psychic powers to attack Horus, who began to utter the name of the Lost Primarch

[@tommiebraxhoofden937]

Theory on legions simple: They were made to allow players to make their own legions and primarchs. Over the course of that info being released, multiple writers have tried to drop hints, but never outright state, why they are blanked out, in an attempt to hint at a reason why they are blanked out. There is no reason why they are blanked out, until GW writes it. We can only expect them to build on what exists. So whatever happened, it happened during the xeoncide, and leman russ was probably involved killing either one or both, after which they were stricken from records and had their statues broken in the imperial palace. It heavily suggests it was space marine on space marine action. Wether thats russ killing both, or the 2 blank legions fighting each other and russ fighting the winner, we also dont know. I speculate that the Horus heresy wasnt the first heresy of the emperors great crusade. The conviction that the luna wolves use when they talk about the imposibility of space marines fighting space marines always sounded like dogma to me. Like thats what they've been told over and over. You expect them to be told that that way if it had infact happened already and they were trying to keep it a secret so it wouldnt happen again.

[@StarcraftOakley]

What you have to keep in mind is the "lore" is often written from the perspective of the faction or character in question. So when the imperium writes about the Rangdan being horrible xenos who apparently are horrible, vile, mind controlling and brutal xenos, with the way the imperium generally describe xenos races you may have to reconsider if the little we know about them are even true. One of the lost primarch may have simply been scattered to the Rangdan planet and grown up there. He may have seen them as respectable people, and been treated fairly. When it comes to the two lost primarchs, their existence was scrubbed a lot harder than even the traitor primarchs. Malcodor doesn't even want their names uttered, which he commands with sadness in his soul. What happened to the two may have been a complete wrongdoing of the imperium itself, not the Primarchs. The imperium can't let it get out they killed sons of the emperor, on purpose. Likely what happened is they sided with the xenos. The xenos hadn't done anything wrong, the sons of said primarch split between helping their gene father and staying with the imperium. Because that is what I think is the difference between the lost primarchs and the traitor primarchs; the traitors were corrupted by an outside force. They *may* have been tricked into their own demise. But the lost primarchs chose to stand against their own father. They chose the xenos. They fought back with their own free will, and were eventually slaughtered for it. The imperium couldn't accept the xenos, and wrote in their history books about justifications for their actions, and scrubbed anything that could counter their point of view, like a primarch fighting back at the imperium.

[@toxicduckie789]

I look at Nemeroth and think that the lost primarchs could be lost to chaos before being united to the crusade itself but were expunged from existence or fled away before being killed by Big E. This is a small part of my theory.

[@momqabt]

Malal/Malice isn't the 5th chaos god. But there is a 5th😏 of souls are being every day, so he may never truly die. But yaknow, the first primarch to be found was Horus😏

[@lylehigg]

27:00 in the lore, it's never explained. They just had a massive swelling in their ranks. The best theory is what he stated in the video and that the loyalist members of the 2nd and 11th were folded into the 2 most loyal legions.

[@themalcontent100]

There is something that i hadn't thought about until now. The rundung were a doctor who villain and guess who their enemy was?

[@denisholanda7092]

My theory is Malice is the Result of the Emperor's True Death, we know the how crazy temporal is the Warp, so he dont exists yet, but when the Big E trully dies will devastate all the mankind in so much anarchy and fear, so much so that it will be as in the case of the birth of Slannesh, and brings the Malice into the Warp. About the II and XI, the II Primarch surely was killed by the Russ, the II and XI Legions was dismantelated and reintroduced in the others Legions, so well the Ultramarines, i really believe in the theory of the "Subject XI" be the 11º Primarch locked in the Dark Cells, but for me makes sense the 2º Legion has something to Legion of the Damned.

[@Likhos1]

One Primarch of the 2nd idea I had was one who had fought the Ouroboros swarm for years. A man coming from tribalistic faith, he was lost in the warp through a cataclysmic war incident and made a demonic pact to save him and his men, pretty much taking in the heart of a lesser chaos deity his people revered unknowing of its nature, when he came out of it while it felt they made it to destination, Five Thousand Years had passed for those on the flagship, and he had visibly aged from the experience. After that, he was focused on modifying his legion's geneseed, because the experience of the warp had caused severe damage and deteriorations, but influenced by the demon inside himn he started dabling in the genetical crafting he witnessed the (now known as) tyranids doing, believing by gene crafting, he could create soldiers more adapted to very specific battlefields. This deviation was eventually found during the Rangdan xenocide and this got the attention of the 11th primarch who snitched on him when he saw the weird amount of rangdan carcasses the 2nd was ferying to their ships. When the Lion arrived to terminate the conflict, however, he found the 11th and 2nd collaborating proper, it's only after the conflict had ended and more primarch brothers appeared at the scene the Lion confronted the 2nd. This is where a conflict happened, the 11th had become nothing more than a puppet under the control of the 2nd, it's only because his legion was mostly terrans that they took no part in the conflict, however the 2nd was partially destroyed. It only ended with the 2nd being seemingly slain by Leman, causing a warp rift to swallow his body. The primarch of the 11th was left unresponsive in the aftermath, and his body had been utterly ravaged by mutations under the 2nd's grasp and he was thus taken away to be sealed into a vault on Terra, with the Emperor quite doubtful of the abilities to bring him back as is. the second Legion was partially purged, the corrupt elements were culled and the ones unaware of the treachery were dispatched into the Imperial Fists. The 11th was dispatched to reinforce the Ultramarines.

[@mattroxursoul]

Obviously one of the Primarchs crash landed on an Ork infested world while also having green tinted skin. Sort of like How Magnus is red and Corax is bleach white. The baby primarch proceeded to punch a snotling who found him and ate the little goblin. Gained information on Ork society and thought for sure he was an Ork too. So he rose to power as an Ork warboss over time. The other primarch is far scarier. He landed on a planet that really loved doing musicals and theater. So when discovered he told the Emperor he wanted to only be an actor and singer, and thought violence was awful. Hence the need to erase them both from existence.

[@trololokiller9753]

The two redacted primarchs to my understanding are the 'Lost and the Damned' i believe that one of the primarchs was killed in the crusade, possibly because they went traitor because they didn't agree with the Imperium. The other one i believe to be insane, likely due to chaos or xenos influence and i believe he's being kept beneath the imperial palace in the Black cells with any other very crazy technology, experiments etc that the emperor didn't want to see the light of day ever again and didn't destroy them likely because he thought there might be a use for them someday

[@questingchris1699]

Considering how outright crazy the beginning of the Great Crusade was, I wouldnt be shocked that we lost the two legions in such an insane way that the emperor himself was like "Yeah we arent talking about what happened, ever. I dont want the other Primarchs to panic."

[@Sgt_Glory]

Exactly my thoughts. Like something so existentially messed up it'd break even primarchs just to know about it. Like for instance maybe an Old One still existing. Just one.. Who bodied an entire legion by himself.

[@ponthos7490]

Honestly the least we know about the two lost legions, the Rangan Xenocides, any time before the Horus Heresy, like the Dark Age of Technology and the War in Heaven, or any other deliberate mysteries, the better. 40k should focus on M42, where so much time has passed from the Horus Heresy, and so much has been forgotten or redacted, that the past is completely dark and unknowable

[@OmegaShanic]

Warhammer 40k 2nd Edition real world lore time! Back in 2nd Edition codex books, there were a LOT of different breakdowns the way Space Marines have Legions - in particular, breakdowns for even many of the Xenos races. Some of this that was cool enough spawned different factions, like the Harlequins for Eldar, but that was extremely rare. Admittedly, some of this was an excuse for why you were painting your Orks yellow vs red\black. When making 40k, the creators didn't know what would sell and what wouldn't - so they planned for ways to expand all of the different races they were making. As examples for these breakdowns, different Craftworlds having their own tech, different Ork Klans (one of these became a brief faction in 3rd for Orks that favored bugggies\bikes and is in the game now as an army option), Tyranid Hive Fleets, etc. with the plan to expand on all of them. The problem is that Space Marines were just SO popular, it almost never happened. So as they wrote the Space Marines, they came up with a way for it to be about originally 18 Legions (9 Loyal, 9 Chaos), and included two extras for either incorporating possibly xenos Space Marines, or otherwise to bring them out should they run out. And, in spite of how much Space Marines have been pushed, White Scars and others still have comparably little development next to the other Legions, so they still have plenty to go before they run out, and xenos just doesn't sell as well compared to Space Marines. So, my guess lore-wise is that somehow the lost Space Marine Legions will return as some xenos filth worthy of purging, or as missing brothers returned from beyond the stars.

[@MrTt1Tt]

You should watch "Why Rylanor is an Absolute BEAST | Warhammer 40k Lore" by Majorkill and listen the song "Rylanor's Last Stand: by StringStorm. This is one of the most badass stories in Warhammer 40K.

[@kingkong381]

I have a lore channel recommendation for you, especially if you're interested in lore regarding the Horus Heresy and the Primarchs. The KZbin channel Oculus Imperia is run by an Irish fella. What makes his lore videos stand out from a lot of others is that he delivers them in-character. Basically Oculus Imperia is a weary scholar on Terra who has been tasked by the Primarch Robute Guilliman to put together as complete and accurate an account of galactic history as he can. In his videos he covers various topics from the War in Heaven right through to the "present day" and offers his own thoughts and speculations on the topics. Some of his thoughts stray into heretical or near-heretical territory as he is one of only a few people in the Imperium who is given access to this knowledge and it paints a bleak picture of how fucked humanity is. He has also done videos discussing the fate of the 2nd and 11th Legions and their Primarchs. I would highly recommend his videos on the Unification Wars as well as his video where he describes the experience of pilgrims who come to Holy Terra. It's really top-knotch stuff as far as 40k lore content goes. You also mentioned recently about wanting to know what happened in Space Marine 1. While I'd say the best way is to simply play the first game, the channel Luetin09 has a pretty in depth video on Titus and his history before Space Marine 2 that covers the events of the first game as well as what happened between the end of Space Marine 1 and the start of Space Marine 2.

[@billcipher4996]

The ending caught me off guard 😂

[@PapaPyth]

The creator ThePontiusGlaw69 has imo the best lost primarch video with WhiteDwarf references to back up what is known. It’s also the most recent and up to date.

[@cheeseburger12]

Apparently one of the lost primarchs might be named Maliborn. Or not. Supposedly it was a scrap of lore forgotten.

[@InquisitorKryptman]

Where from? This would be supported by Horus saying "Mal...al".

[@cheeseburger12]

@@InquisitorKryptman I came across it in a Warhammer short yesterday. Supposedly Grahm McNeil wrote a paragraph for a game. So it wasn't from a book. Corivs Corax was mentioned and another primarch. I can't find the short in my history anymore.

[@ThatSlowTypingGuy]

"You forgot malal." "He doesn't exist, shut up about it."

[@InquisitorKryptman]

My head cannon for the lost and the damned Primarchs is Sigmar as the lost 2nd Primarch with his twin tailed comet heralding his arrival (gestation pod) and Malal as the damned 11th Primarch, ascended to a minor Chaos God with 11 being the number of Malal and Horus saying one of his brother's names was "Mal...al" before being choked by Malcador.

[@commissaryarrick9614]

The Rangdan Xenocides are worth learning about. They are the Imperium’s Punic Wars (ie Rome vs Carthage). They were 3 wars against this Xenos empire that was a comparable match to the early Imperium. Just as the Emperor expanded when the warp storms lifted, this alien empire did too and outside of the Heresy, it was the bloodiest conflict in the Imperiums history. In the 2nd war, 80,000 Astartes, millions of Imperial army and dozens of titans legions were killed. Occulus Imperia has a good video covering all the known lore and speculations. He expertly does this from the perspective of an Imperial Scholar. His videos are top notch, I highly recommend them.

[@tecnico1indatec97]

More 40k, MOARRRRR! xDD The Adeptus Ridiculous have released a video today on youtube about this subject: The lost Primarchs: [Redacted]; going threw the lore we know now in 2024. because books and GW (and don't know, because GW...*sigh!*) and some theories.

[@th3falleng0d69]

If i recall correctly sanguinis makes a remark to horus at one point about not telling the emperor about the red thirst defect in the blood angels gene seed, because "he does not want to see his legion as another bare plinth". In my opinion, the second and eleventh had issues with their gene seed. Its not that uncommon among the legions. Malcador has said that the remaining marines were mind wiped and transfered into the fists and ultramarines, their gene seed replaced with that of either legion.

[@Dr.Mlieko]

My thoughts on the lost Legions, or at least where they are now The Soul Drinkers are the most obvious candidates for being descended from one of the missing Legions, as that is essentially the whole plot point of the Soul Drinker novels they were introduced in - that they are a Chapter of the Imperial Fists Legion, but their gene seed does not fit any of the Legions. The second big one would be the Valedictors, whom literally nobody remembers, but were in fact once listed as a Legion. Specifically, WAY back during the 1st edition, in the magazine White Dwarf (which is published by Games Workshop, so the articles can be seen as cannon), there was a "make your own Legion" article, which featured the Valedictors Legion as an example of how a homebrew Legion would be like. The Valedictors then continued to make small cameos in other works, whether it were other articles or books, but by the time of the 3rd edition, they were only ever referenced as a Chapter (alto it is never said which Legion they came from) Then there are also the Legion of the Damned (who even have their own rulebook in the 6th edition), who are basically the Space Marine version of the Flying Dutchman, randomly appearing and disappearing without a trace whenever they are needed. Alto here the popular theory is that they are the missing Fire Hawks chapter of the Ultramarines, rather than one of the missing Legions. And finally, back during the 1st edition (a time when they were just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, and when most of the lore was not yet established), there were mentions of the Raptor Legion and the Mentor Legion, however in later editions the Raptors were said to be a Chapter of the Raven Guard, while the Mentors a Chapter of the Ultramarines.

[@JourneyTal1]

My theory is one of the lost chapters are the Carcharadons (Space Sharks) since they have no official imperial records to the point even the Inquisition hasn’t confirmed their existence officially and they oddly use Heresy era equipment as well as a markedly unique culture which lines up with how each legion are markedly different from one another. Plus the Carcharadons operate in the deepest reaches of space on their own and have a very practiced way of doing things that’s very very different from like every other legion. Their Primarch likely killed by Lemun Russ which would’ve been cool to see a standoff between the Great Wolf and the Great Shark. Sanguinius was afraid of the Emperor finding out about the Black Rage because he thought he and his sons would end up like the lost Primarchs and their sons which makes sense cause the Carcharadons have a very similar defect to the Black Rage but it’s silent and focused bloodlust. Could be that the Emperor saw the Primarch of the Carcharadons fall into his bloodlust and decided to deal with it which puts a lot more credibility on Sanguinius’ fears and reasons for keeping his legion’s defect a secret The other lost chapter is the Legion of the Damned (that one is more just cool factor personal head canon)

[@BadyearOakarus]

if you wanna learn more about the soul drinkers, there's a podcast called adeptus ridiculous. they are a podcast that's mostly dedicated to 40k (and warhammer fantasy) and they recently did a video going into the soul drinkers

[@if_paradox]

In the Rangdang Zenocide it feels accurate that one of the missing legions was sent to take down the other missing legion because they were corrupted by Chaos or something then once they took down the other missing legion since they now fought and now knew of Chaos existing they were also purged by Leman Russ by the Emperors orders which would make sense because the Emperor wanted to keep Chaos unknown to humanity which ended up causing the Horrus Herresy and heck maybe the Rangdang was just a cover or something This is my theory at least it feels kind of satisfying the way it fits in to the rest of the story

[@NecronSoulsError404]

If you'd like, MajorKill does have a video(s?) that explains the 5th Chaos god Malice as well as his chaos legion, the Sons of Malice They're pretty cool, I like em a lot

[@lylehigg]

5:50 it's nice to have 2 completely unknown legions to allow the fans to make their own story, but after the Horus Heresy when the Codex Astartes was written by Roboute Guilliman it broke the legions down into chapters, and because of the number of foundings that you can honestly do whatever you want without the 2nd or 11th legions. There's a book where a high ranking member of the imperium visits the Golden Throne and sees a fresco on the wall of the Emperor surrounded by 20 warriors. He asks about it and someone tells him it's the emperor and the primarchs, and the character is like "There's only 9 legions, who are these other people?"

[@N11Ckk123472]

regarding the "5th chaos god" just remember the warp feeds off of thoughts and emotions which ends up creating these entetities. theoretically if enough people believed in santa clause, he would manifest in the warp

[@ijustsawthat]

One Legion is mentioned as "The Lost" and the other is mentioned as "The Forgotten". So it could be that one Primarch was killed, and the other one was purged.

[@kageshira]

*reading that title" HERESY!!! I unironically think leaving stuff unaswered works best, it creates discourse among players and fluffenjoyers. Everyone comes up with their theories and argues about their validity or lack thereof. Also like with all misteries, they never held up to people's imagination, so once you reveal what happened it will be less cool that what people imagined it. That's what the best horror movies keep the monster and its origin mostly hidden 29:39 what he's going with is that supposedly the successor Chapters of each legion should keep some cohesion with their father legion like in tactics/rites/mutations/geneflaws, etc...but some successors of the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists are wacky af and share nothing with their legion of origin

[@CursedKelpie]

So, I heard that the lost primarchs are called, the forgotten and the purged. So, the forgotten probably was killed in battle against aliens and his legion was folded into Dorn's and Gulliman's legions in order to hide that fact that one of them was killed. and the purged fell either to chaos or turned traitor and was killed by Russ. that's what my best guess is.

[@Crovax123]

"The Last Church: Tyber Portoghese's Iconic Animation" is a great video to react from a great warhammmer book

[@thetalantonx]

5:45 - Right, it provides room for homebrew legions above and beyond the homebrew chapters we can make in the Second Founding/post-Codex.

[@rokkraljkolesa9317]

I'm of firm belief that the Soul Drinkers chapter are descendants of the 11th -the Soulspear, their chapter artifact, can't be used by anyone outside of their chapter -during a trial conducted by the Imperial Fists and their successors they were found to not be sons of Dorn -their loyalty was to mankind, not the imperium -when in a later book they had a re-founding, the new Drinkers had the exact same geneseed flaws, and we know Cawl has Traitor _and_ Lost geneseed -Fulgrim in a pre-heresy book described 2 as "contemplative" "quiet" and "humorless", and the two of them were among the earlier re-discovered primarchs -adding to the previous point, 11 was found as one of the last primarchs -Jaghatai was one of Emps' least favorite sons, due to the Khan considering Emps as just another tyrant and only siding with him due to being a lesser evil, as Big E values loyalty the most so, here's what I think happened: II was found early, and proved to be unproblematic, so Emps didn't do anything centuries pass, and XI is found, who like the Khan and some other brothers thinks "ugh, a tyrant" and manages to convince II to join him Emps notices this, and has Russ disappear them the legions, now leaderless, were considered for the chopping block, but Girlyman and Door spoke up that this would be a waste of manpower Soul Drinkers and [the 2nd legion] get sent to the Fists and Ultramarines respectively, then everyone gets mindwiped so they don't know who's Lost Legion stock

[@toomaskotkas4467]

I also recommend "The LOST LEGIONS & PRIMARCHS of the HORUS HERESY | Legions II & XI: Origins & Lore" by Arbitor Ian (short video) and "EVERY SINGLE REFERENCE To The 2nd and 11th Legions | Warhammer 40K Investigation" by Sandman of Terra (very long video).

[@manmangler]

Actually in lore Leman Russ has said that Marines vs Marines happens before horus hershey. I think that was when some think that rumours at hershey are lies, and Leman Russ just said It had happen already before this rumour . He did not say was is one or two times.... I have White dwarf from 92 ---- and many codex and rule books from 1987, so I dont know are those canon now.

[@inupiluky]

22:34 personally I like the fact that not everything is explained, because it leaves some place for imagination and theories. Therefore I think that unveiling all mystery by explaining it in movies (which would already struggle to bring to life some of the stuff, like the warp, and other things that are supposed to be so incomprehensible to humans that they would become mad trying to understand it (like... How do you render stuff like that in a movie ? You can't)) would be an impossible and sad pursuit.

[@lylehigg]

Another warhammer 40k video, another day of me screaming from the rooftops that you need to react to Helsreach here on KZbin. It's a 2.5 hour long masterpiece of 40k content, you could honestly get a 3 hour reaction vid out of it easy.

[@ooxOBHOxoo]

3:45 I'm just at the beginning of the video so I don't know if he corrects himself later on, but some lore does exist about 2nd and 11th Legion. Very few but still does. (If the following quote was retcon, then it's my bad I didn't know) From Rogal Dorn's chapter of The Scions of the Emperor : An Anthology : In preparation for the siege of the imperial palace, a survey crew was slain by psychic wards when they stumbled upon the rooms of the two lost Primarchs, somehow moved by Malcador from the inner palace into the city. Rogal Dorn investigates the area and is confronted my Malcador. Dorn is angry that about the secrets Malcador keeps, accuses him of only being out for his own gain and playing his own game. Malcador reveals that the two legions of the lost Primarchs were spared: " 'The legionaries they left behind, leaderless and forsaken, were too great a resource to be discarded out of hand. They did not share the fate of their fathers. You and Roboute argued in their favour, but you do not recall it.' Malcador nodded to himself. 'It fell to me to see that they were attuned to new circumstances.' 'You robbed them of their memories.' 'I granted them a mercy!' Malcador replied, his tone wounded. 'A second chance!' " Malcador goes on to tell Rogal that, he and Guilliman devised a plan to hide their memories of their brothers from themselves. They then gave Malcador permission to do the deed. Here Malcador gives Rogal his memories back briefly so that he may remember why his two brothers must remain lost and forgotten: " 'I will show you,' said the psyker. 'For this instant, I will let you remember. You will know why the lost must remain a mystery.' Dorn closed his eyes and a glacial fire erupted behind them. Deep within him, a shadow briefly dissipated, stealing the breath from his throat. He marched along the length of the blood-stained corridor, and with each footfall the reawakened memory retreated deeper into the darkness. Dorn could feel it fading. He knew that by the time he reached the end of the passageway, the totality of it would be gone. The truth he had glimpsed, hidden, revealed and now to be hidden once more, became transitory and ephemeral. He did not question what Malcador had shown him. Dorn knew his own mind, enough to be certain that the Sigillite had not projected some conjured illusion into his thoughts. Awakening from the induced reverie, barely seconds had passed, but for the primarch he felt the weight of days upon him. The Sigillite, for all his allusions, was nowhere to be seen when Dorn opened his eyes. There was still much that the psyker had said and done which the Imperial Fist did not accept, and although Malcador had professed to have been truthful with him, Dorn had doubts that would never ebb. But not in this matter. In this, he was certain. The lost were gone, and it was well that they were. The grand misfortunes that befell them crumbled in Dorn's mind, but they left behind certainty. What came to pass could overshadow everything. Dorn knew that now. 'The raw, hateful truth is clear to me. If they were here with us now… This war would already have been lost.' "

[@spencersholden]

24:48 we should get Dee Bee Geek a dictionary. It will probably help thanks to the over abundance of uncommon words used in 40K. I mostly know how to pronounce them from listening to enough stuff.

[@sethshockey1114]

You need to do some diving into the Dark Cells on Tera and the trials to become a Shadowkeeper (Custodians who guard the Dark Cells). There is a theory about the 11th primarch being imprisoned there!

[@Darwinist]

The scariest thing about the missing primarchs is that there are still a few figures in 40K apart from Guilliman who were around back then - Fabius Bile, Abbadon, Kharn....not to mention the Primarchs who are still knocking around as Daemon Princes. All of these have cut their ties to the Imperium and should not have any compunction about sticking to it's rules....but STILL they all keep the secret. They won't talk about the missing Primarchs even though getting that information back out there into circulation would probably destabilize the Imperium even further than it already is, which is their goal anyways. So, for even the OG Traitor Marines to keep the faith on this particular secret means, to me at least, that keeping this information suppressed is vital not just to the cohesion of the Imperium, but the galaxy/reality in some way that even the forces of Chaos are scared of awakening this secret.

[@Kthron]

It's notable to me that neither side (loyal/traitor) talk about them. If they were simply wiped out due to heretical stuff then one side or the other would for sure talk about it ("The emperor was forced to wipe them out due to being traitors"/"Your false emperor laid waste to entire legions for no reason!"). It has to be something shameful for marines period.

[@dimanosov5393]

@deebeegeek you are right that there are four chaos gods, but it’s not just four gods in general. Even the emperor is a god within the warp with his own realm and daemons. They are this strong because they embodied the most powerful and prevalent emotions in the galaxy. The nature of the warp is such that every thought and emotion manifests within the war as a tangible being. So those personal demons of yours, they literally are demons. The thing is that they usually just consume each other, keeping their numbers and check, but making others grow stronger. New gods come into existence all the time. Example that I can think of is Tau’va, the 20 armed goddess of the Tau empire, that was only just recently birthed and came into existence. Infact, at the height of the Eldar empire, they would create disposable gods to do things for them. You lost your keys? Just whip up the god of reminding you where your car keys are, and once his usage is used up, just go ahead and dispose of him.

[@lylehigg]

19:29 The more you encounter the words in the 40k universe the easier they get. Also almost everything is based on Latin when they're using High Gothic. The Imperial Guard is the "Astra Militarum" (literally Star Military in latin). Imperialis Auxilia would be the auxilary units of the great crusade. Since during the Great Crusade the Space Marines were the main combatants, the Astra Militarum would have been considered an auxilary unit. The logistics corps, the food production, etc.

[@jayhoffmayer8581]

My head canon is that they just weren’t recovered during the crusade and no one is looking for them now lol

[@floverdan5180]

Pretty sure the whole concept of the missing II and XI legions is based on the lost IX Roman legion which is one the biggest ancient military mysteries. Subtract II from XI and you get IX.

[@bnhik]

I feel like fans have put way more thought into the unknown legions than GW has. I’m pretty sure there are two of them so you can make up your own Space Marine or Chaos Space Marine Chapters.

[@Awwscrewit]

My own theory is that the Carcharadons are the remains of one of the Legions, which is why their gene strain is completely pure and it has such a unique defect. They're on a Penitent Crusade until the Emporer returns to absolve them of their sins.

[@boop2908]

You shoudl watch Horus Heresy lore videos from Arbitor Ian. He goes into a lot more detail about this sort of stuff, he's underrated.

[@CyberSlayer128]

Especially his video on the 2nd and 11th legions, he pieces together some really interesting info that paints a potential explanation for at least on of their executions.

[@boop2908]

@@CyberSlayer128 Its unfortunate that a lot of newer 40k fans intro to the setting is through the likes of Wes. Dude gets his lore from memes :c

[@wargjack]

Dorn Primarch Imperial Fists is angry that about the secrets Malcador keeps, accuses him of only being out for his own gain and playing his own game. Malcador reveals that the two legions of the lost Primarchs were spared: " 'The legionaries they left behind, leaderless and forsaken, were too great a resource to be discarded out of hand. They did not share the fate of their fathers. You and Roboute argued in their favour, but you do not recall it.' Malcador nodded to himself. 'It fell to me to see that they were attuned to new circumstances .''You robbed them of their memories said Dorn .''I granted them a mercy!' Malcador replied, his tone wounded. 'A second chance!' " " 'I will show you,' said the psyker. 'For this instant, I will let you remember. You will know why the lost must remain a mystery.' Dorn closed his eyes and a glacial fire erupted behind them. Deep within him, a shadow briefly dissipated, stealing the breath from his throat. There was still much that the psyker had said and done which the Imperial Fist did not accept, and although Malcador had professed to have been truthful with him, Dorn had doubts that would never ebb . But not in this matter. In this , he was certain. The lost were gone, and it was well that they were . The grand misfortunes that befell them crumbled in Dorn's mind, but they left behind certainty. What came to pass could overshadow everything. Dorn knew that now. 'The raw, hateful truth is clear to me . If they were here with us now… This war would already have been lost.' " When Malcador allowed Dorn to remember he understood why they were deleted from the records and that they would most likely side with Horus and Chaos.

[@Rictos]

No cannon information, just bit of info here and there in some books, 5:30 - yes at first they were for fun however *-REDACTED-* and so we get some stuff here and there that hint that they were either corrupted and scraped [like Thunder Warriors] , seems like Big Wolf Dude [Space Wolf Primarch] and Big Yellow Wall Dude [Imperial Fist Primarch] knows something about it, along with Malcador [the guy know everything, even when Emps farts] and is hinted in *-REDACTED-* and other books along the Horus Heresy period, 10:30 Big Wolf Dude is basically the executioner inside the Astartes, they were even called to bust Magnus the Nerd and this Thousand Sons when Magnus did ''nothing wrong'' and he went ''yeah, not the first time Astartes goes against Astartes'' , Big Yellow Wall Dude also mentined that 'were' more Legions and they could help defend during the Siege and Malcador comes in *-REDACTED-* and remind him that those are lost to them *Luetin09* has a long video [like almost all Luetin09 lore videos] that covers the Emps origin and also talk about those 2 while talking about Horus Heresy chain of events that lead to the Emps being put on the Golden Throne with a broken body, do check it ⚔ 19:30 - that is supposed to be 40k High Gothic, for us, that would be Classic Latin, low-gothic sounds ultra-familiar to romance languages [from Roman's Latin languages that followed, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish] 🙃 22:20 - We could get 40k minutes of movies made by heretical AI and call it a day, there's so many books that we could just thrown them down the throat of movie making AI and get Slannesh popcorn while we use Tzeentch theater while Nurgle serves the drinks and Khorne hold the lawyers off 😉

[@customink1576]

Sure you might want to have everything written down, have an explanation, but there's a bit of magic to not knowing. Gives the setting an air of mystery and intrigue. Before books about the Horus Heresy came out, it was this mythological event that shaped the Imperium ten thousand years ago, Primarchs were akin to legendary heroes like Hercules or Gilgamesh and the Heresy something like the Bronze Age Collapse. It was a cool thing that happened that didn't need to be explained, just general history that they, and while it's cool they're making books about what happened it also kinda takes away some of the universe's intrigue. Not even Tolkien knows what happened to the Blue Wizards because perhaps there are just some things that we don't need to know; and that's okay. Games Workshop definitely wanted more money though, hence the Horus Heresy books and tabletop stuff heehoo

[@Sorain1]

IIRC, the Horus Heresy was going to be 6 books long, and those books were the first 3 we got, then what became 'The End and The Death' parts 1-3. Everything else was going to be expanding on that. But someone smelled money and, well, you can see the results.

[@vampirepriest03]

you should also look into the moment when "the planet break before the guard did"

[@DejectedCat]

Honestly. It's really most likely just a call back to the mystery of the vanished legions of the Roman empire. Since the Imperium is in many ways a sci-fi analogue of the Imperial Rome (Over use of Latin language, etc). Most historians believe those vanished Roman legions probably just took too many casualties, that it made more sense to just have other legions absorb them than actually attempt to reconstitute them.

[@MiggeS]

Sorry for Icarion, but there is already xenos based on the Japanese culture, the Tau. I believe that the second primarch is based on the acient american culture. He was secretive, and spoke only when he had to. He had a secret alliance with the Old ones. They went on expeditions the other legions knows vaguely of. He was the third to have been found so he had a very important role in the beginning of the Great Crusade. I believe his legions speciality was Void warfare. Chapters that could be part of the second legion are the Nova Marines, The Eagle Warriors, Marines Errant, and maybe the Space Sharks. There could be more chapters. Something tells me that the Exorcist are of the 11th primarch. In the book the Wolftime it is mentioned by a custodian that the eleventh primarch was somehow possessed before his down fall. Something the Exorcist usually practise within their chapter when they face demons.

[@kennethmana3103]

36:49 BIG E and Vashtir are competing for the position of the 5th chaos god

[@jacksmith4460]

There is a KEY point you have not yet grasped about 40k, we as players have the same perspective as someone in the Imperium. The records are faulty/off limits. When it comes to history nothing is certain, some of the patchiness adds to he whole thing, the past is morphable depending on source and vested interest. Every account could be false or at least exaggerated/in accurate. You can never be 100% about any source

[@madhatter1662]

The only reason that Horus and the other traitor Primarchs didn't get purged from the Imperial records the way that the 2nd and 11th legions did, is because Big Daddy E hasn't woken up to give the decree. You know, cause he's still sleeping off a case of the Mondays ever since he had to commit child abuse on his favorite son.

[@facetankhank]

Actually, the 2nd legion were all suicide bombers and one particular celebration event they all blew up together on their home planet of Seefore. They were called the Seventy Two Virgos with their Primarch Nitrus Glycerin. The 11th were all gamers whose power was long range boasting, but fought like pansies and got smushed out of existence. Their Primarch was called Noodlearms Papertowel.

[@redhakiim789]

Soul Drinkers my 3rd favourite chapter is basically considered a renegade chapter in the imperium of man. But in fact, they're loyalist as much as they thought that the geneseed contained some form of heretical genetic from an unknown traitor primarch. What's ironic is that some of their recruits are redeemed astartes/former traitor aside from the chapter master who is a crap master. But luckily the chapter as of now are officially loyalist.

[@maximuspraetoria7480]

20:22 the missing informations are made on porpouse for different reasons, sometimes not linked with eachothers, or sometimes they do. Reason 1: To make the reader imagine the events themselves and speculate about the outcomes, the mysteries, and everyhting. Reason 2: to immerse the reader like being part of the imperium, making him feel like an imperial citizen reading imperial data, data often corrupted through millennia, or censured, or twisted by imperial propaganda, this changes even inside the books, because chaos is not known by the standard citizen as the simple knowledge of chaos existing could be enough to corrupt a human mind, enche why the grey knights shoots their own allies after battling chaos.

[@bradleyarchibald2464]

There is a short story in the Scions of the Emperor anthology book that sheds a bit of light on the 2nd and 11th Primarchs. It's called The Chamber at the end of Memory by James Swallow. There are several instances in the Horus Heresy books where some of the Primarchs give hints. Also in Scions of the Emperor there is a story called First Legion by Chris Wraight that talks about the Rangdan Xenocides. Might want to check these stories out.

[@connortalbert814]

The inqustion basically doesn't want people to go insane from some of the info about the 2 missing chapters like trying to keep the nids as a fable so as to not seed absolute panic in the imperium

[@janematthews9087]

GW trying to explain the 2nd and 11th legion would be a massive mistake. People have theorized and headcannoned about them so much that they have developed personal investment in them. And any attempt to fill it in any official capacity will be met with disappoinment and raging hate. Like. People mostly agree that the rangdan xenocide would have the places those two lefions and primarcha died. And everyone agrees that it's unsatisfying and it sucks. And it's been years since then. People now expect unreasonable amounts of effort by GW. And all they can expect in reponse will be a nonplussed and umipressed "...I guess." It'll be like the whole 20 legions descending down on a planet to clear it, suffering ludicrous amount of losses and personal trauma, only to be met by the emperor(fandom )saying " You know what, that wasn't worth it. Shoulda just exterminatus'd it." "There is no greater wrath than he whose fantasy has been shattered by reality."

[@Oropher420]

It's like explaining what Yoda's species is from Star Wars, probably would've ruined the mystery if Disney chose to do this.

[@cookienommerz1]

A youtuber by the name of The Pontius has an amazing video going over the theories of the missing Primarchs and has one pretty decently solved, he is the most accurate source of 40k lore i know

[@J4zzhandss]

yes majorkill I love that guy definitely one of the best warhammer40K lore channels

[@SheenaVillalobos-y9j]

Most lore we have is from the books, the reason we dont know much about it is really simple, it was bought up as a passing thing in a book, and since then, none of the authors want to write about it.