The UGLIEST COACHING CONTROVERSY in Divisional Round HISTORY | Browns @ Dolphins (1985)

After the 1985 AFC divisional between the Cleveland Browns and Miami Dolphins, Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar threw head coach Marty Schottenheimer under the bus for the loss and the collapse, saying that the game plan was awful, and was way too predictable. And the complicated part about all of this? When you break it down, both Kosar and Schottenheimer were right in their opinions. This is the story behind the controversy
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#nfl #nflplayoffs #nflthrowback #playoffs #football #sports #highlights #browns #clevelandbrowns #dolphins #miamidolphins
Members of the 1985 Browns:
Jeff Gossett
Matt Bahr
Paul McDonald
Gary Danielson
Bernie Kosar
Don Rogers
Felix Wright
Greg Allen
Al Gross
Herman Fontenot
Hanford Dixon
Boyce Green
Frank Minnifield
Curtis Dickey
Kevin Mack
Chris Rockins
Johnny Davis
Earnest Byner
Larry Braziel
DD Hoggard
Tom Cousineau
Eddie Johnson
Curtis Weathers
Chip Banks
Clay Matthews
Scott Nicolas
Mike Baab
George Lilja
Cody Risien
Robert Jackson
Dan Fike
Dave Puzzuoli
Paul Farren
Bill Contz
Rickey Bolden
Carl Hairston
Bob Golic
Willis Adams
Harry Holt
Ozzie Newsome
Fred Banks
Glen Young
Clarence Weathers
Brian Brennan
Travis Tucker
Reggie Langhorne
John Jefferson
Sam Clancy
Reggie Camp
Keith Baldwin
Marty Schottenheimer (head coach)
Members of the 1985 Dolphins:
Reggie Roby
Fuad Reveiz
Don Strock
Jim Jensen
Dan Marino
Mike Smith
Tony Nathan
Joe Carter
Lorenzo Hampton
Don McNeal
John Swain
Ron Davenport
Tommy Vigorito
Woody Bennett
Mike Kozlowski
Fulton Walker
Lyle Blackwood
Bud Brown
Paul Lankford
Robert Sowell
Glenn Blackwood
William Judson
Jackie Shipp
Mark Brown
Robin Sendlein
Jay Brophy
Alex Moyer
Hugh Green
Charles Bowser
Dwight Stephenson
Kim Bokamper
Bob Brudzinski
Jeff Toews
Roy Foster
Larry Lee
Jeff Dellenbach
Bill Barnett
Mike Charles
Ronnie Lee
Cleveland Green
Doug Betters
Steve Clark
Jon Giesler
Joe Rose
Frank Lockett
Duriel Harris
Mark Clayton
Bruce Hardy
Mark Duper
Dan Johnson
Vince Heflin
Nat Moore
Mack Moore
Sanders Shiver
George Little
Don Shula (head coach)

[@kyle1910]

Martyball in the playoffs, years before it was commonly referred to that way.

[@Davepool-hs7vr]

Martyball only produced 5-13 record in the playoffs

[@mikewallace3030]

When I was a kid, I recall my uncles (one was a Browns fan, the other Bengals fan) talking about the ultra conservative game plans that Marty would put in. Marty seemed to believe that you could win any game if you “won” two out of the three phases (offense, defense, special teams). If one phase was not doing well, he’d shut it down and make it as conservative as possible and rely on the other two. However, to score points you have to have the ball! The touchdown pass you don’t attempt or the FG you don’t try will always be zero points! That bewildered my uncles at the time, so much so that I still remember their discussion to this day.

[@mgb4692]

RIP Don Rogers, who followed Kenny Easley at UCLA and was on the way to becoming the next guy (his first NFL game was actually against Easley's Hawks in the game Curt Warner tore up his knee and Sam Rutigliano was fired the next day). This was his last game--he died eight days after Len Bias. Stay away from drugs people.

[@MrGiants16]

I remember this game well. I do not recall the controversy as my team, the Giants, were playing in the divisional round that weekend too. Cleveland ran off a string of heartbreaking playoffs defeats during the 1980's and this was one of them.

[@nasetvideos]

Had a chance to go to the NFL draft in Cleveland this past year and no one is more beloved than Bernie Kosar. The guy was a rock star at the draft for 3 days. Fans there adore him. Excellent video today! Really well done, as always. Enjoy the games today.

[@studogable]

This game underscores the transition the game was going through in the mid-1980s. Ten years earlier, you absolutely would shut down the passing game with a 18-point lead that late in the game and go with a ball control offense, especially with the success they'd had with the running game earlier. This wasn't feasible by the time of this game, but we can only really say this with 35 years of hindsight. At the time, it was still a debate.

[@DolFan316]

It actually was still feasible in the '80s. Only at some point in the '90s (and the late 90s at that) did it become actually foolish to keep running in the 4th with a multiscore lead. Now of course it's universally regarded as downright idiotic. Remember, the Giants-Bills Super Bowl didn't happen until the '90 postseason, and was the game that got the media yammering on about how ball control wins games for almost a decade afterwards.

[@anthony0358]

Oh wow I remember this game! I had no memory of the conflict between Kosar and Marty . Thank you for sharing the backstory

[@TheCockmeister]

There wasn't a controversy...this channel is making a mountain out of a molehill

[@CTubeMan]

At first I was hoping you’d give the Dumb Decisions/In Defense Of treatment to the Jets-Browns Divisional Round game of 1986 (preferably Dumb Decisions). Then I thought I’d go the smart aleck route and say, “You did a video about a Browns Divisional Round game against an AFC East team.” Then I realized that in the Browns five straight trips to the playoffs at the end of the 1980s they made it to the Divisional Round four times. Each time they faced a different AFC East team. OK, I will be a smart aleck and say that this would be the last time a team blew a 21-3 lead in a playoff game. Also, on a side note, yesterday the Bengals got called for too many men on the field on the extra point after the first Titans touchdown. The Titans decided to take the penalty and try a two-point conversion from the one-yard line. They got stopped. Had they tried the extra point they would have been up by one in the final minutes and never would have had to pass, leading to the interception that led to the winning field goal. You could call it, “The Greatest Penalty in the Playoffs.”

[@teen_laqueefa]

I love it, great suggestion

[@coasterdaydreams7150]

Gee thanks. You had to remind me of THE ONE devastating Browns loss that doesnt have a "fancy name!" LOL. Ah the life of a Browns fan. And as Bernie is my favorite athlete of all time and made me a life long Browns fan, I gotta say 19 was right. Even if he was wrong, he was right. Because he is Bernie. 😁

[@vincentr.6109]

Did Kosar really have his own candy bar?

[@coasterdaydreams7150]

@@vincentr.6109 Bernie had his OWN SONG! On the radio and everything. Ask any old timer and they know (tune of Louie Louie): "Bernie Bernie.....oh Bernie....how you can throw.....ya ya ya ya ya ya.....Bernie Bernie....oh Bernie....SUPER BOWL....YA YA YA YA YA YA!" 😂

[@johnbrowntheprophet]

It’s easy to criticize Marty, but the fact remains that the Browns had just racked up 144 yards rushing during the first half of that game. He had two 1,000-yard rushers that season as well as a young QB at the helm. I don’t blame him for continuing to run the ball and try to eat clock with an 18-point lead against the best QB in the league at that time.

[@DolFan316]

IKR? Isn't the first rule of coaching to never go way from what's working? And even at that point the run was still working better than the pass. I think the real issue here was offensive balance. Naturally as the QB Kosar would be upset that the Browns were completely unable to pass even a little in the second half.

[@johnbrowntheprophet]

@@DolFan316 - Yeah, I mean, if I was on the road winning a game by 18 points after running for 144 yards during the first half with a young, inexperienced QB at the helm, I’d probably continue running the ball, too. Sometimes common sense overrides scheme or trying to constantly outthink your opponent. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@mindfunk6340]

Offensive Balance ! Kosar is right.... He should've hit Ozzie more in the 2nd half, screens to Mack type stuff.... but whatta you gonna do !

[@scottaznavourian3720]

'Cleveland realizes Miami has no idea how to stop the run' My patriots Will make that a Fatal flaw a week later.

[@brockgeorge777]

Bernie had a point. …But more for how he was handled that *entire* season than this game. Given Miami’s run D woes, their explosive offense, and the Browns own failure to adequately *develop* Kosar and the passing game during the season, this game plan made perfect sense. And it *almost* worked.

[@F40PH-2CAT]

This pretty much sums up Schottenheimer's career and his inability to win the big game.

[@mgb4692]

Especially since the Dolphins peaked in the MNF win over the Bears (only decisively beating the woeful Bills afterwards) and going on to get done by the Patriots in the AFCCG.

[@DolFan316]

@@mgb4692 That comment's a bit disingenuous. There were only three more regular season games left after that Bears win. The Dolphins led the Packers on the road in cold weather (the kind of weather teams like that are always supposed to lose in) 20-3 before losing the lead, then winning by 10 anyway. Then they beat the Pats to essentially take the division after leading by 14 late in that game. Then they clobbered the Bills. Nothing about that stretch suggests that they "peaked" after beating the Bears and were due for a playoff loss to an 8-8 team. They were also the only team that season to win their last 7 games and had the third best point differential over that span.

[@connlarson4906]

Great video. Thanks

[@retrogaminggenesis6102]

I have been waiting for an 80's Browns video!!! Hopefully the first or many lol. Best team to never make the Super Bowl in my opinion. Luckily both Marty and Bernie would go to back to back AFC Championships (12-4 in 1986) and another AFC Championship in 1989. Art Modell was an idiot to fire him. Had it not been for The Fumble and The Drive we probably would have a ring.

[@mgb4692]

JG did a vid about a game earlier that year where Gary Danielson thought he was Mahomes

[@CTubeMan]

@@mgb4692 Another unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian in our midst?

[@mgb4692]

Maybe, he did have me at the beautiful disaster that was the 85 Hawks, in which a nine year old me was front and center for.

[@eugenedenbrook322]

They might've beaten Washington in 87', but it wouldn't have been a slam dunk. And though they would've been more competitive in 86' or 89' than Denver, they weren't winning against those two juggernauts.

[@DolFan316]

@@eugenedenbrook322 I disagree. The Broncos actually led the *Redskins* 10-0 early, if the Browns do that they might still lose, but they darn sure aren't losing 42-10. They also led the Giants 10-9 at the half. Cleveland was the only AFC team at that time who could even remotely play the NFC's physical style.

[@SteelerFanInRI]

11:12 OH HEY COACH COWHER

[@mgb4692]

Who was just a year removed from playing at this point

[@davidkaziska6192]

I remember that game. It demystified Dan Marino a little as Minnefield and Dixon covered the Marks Brothers like a pair of gloves. The Dolphins were considered a shoo-in to make the Super Bowl again, but that plan ran aground, and Big Dan and Big Don NEVER got back there. No one knew at the time but it was also the first glimpse of Martyball and its limitations.

[@bensantiago4557]

I remember watching this game when I was 16 and seen the full re telecast on KZbin quite a few times with Don Criqui and Bob Trumpy calling the game.This seems to be one of the forgotten post season games of the 80's.Before the "Drive"and "fumble"there was this that started Marty Shottenheimer's misfortune in playoffs.After that 66 yard td run by Byner that put them up 21-3 all the air seemed to deflate from Cleveland and went to Miami and the heat and humidity I think wore the Browns out in second half

[@dispassionateobserver]

In my opinion Bernie was 100% right. Unfortunately, most of Bernie's career in Cleveland was plagued by predictable and conservative offensive philosophy.

[@hrtvfan2870]

Well, Bernie wasn't wrong about Schottenheimer and his offensive approach or lack of one

[@shackdaddy7106]

This comment has nothing to do with this video. Except for the fact that this game took place in the divisional round. This past weekend was the most exciting weekend in the history of the NFL. All four playoff games came down to the last play. Three game winning field goals to end the games and finally a touchdown in overtime in the best game of the four.

[@shackdaddy7106]

@@matthewdaley746 You are right. And that was just one of so many things that made this weekend memorable for the NFL. I have been watching football for almost 60 years and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was great. I was totally neutral on all of these games. Unfortunately I am a cardinal fan and you know what happened last Monday night. I have never seen a player so freaked out as Kyler Murray was from the very start of that game.

[@shackdaddy7106]

@@matthewdaley746 Nobody on the Rams came to play in the fourth quarter and Tom Brady did. The bottom line is the Rams blew a 27 to 3 lead and were fortunate to pull the game out. I can tell that you hate Brady, but no 44-year-old man has ever played a better game in any major professional sport played better than Brady did today. In fact very few men under the age of 44 could’ve done what Tom did in the fourth quarter. Bottom line is all that matters, the Bucs did tie the game at 27 and the Rams pulled it out at the end. Regarding the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty that Brady got, replay showed that he was right. He was hit in the helmet area. That’s the only way he could of had a bloody lip. And that’s what he was trying to tell to the referee. But unfortunately he probably used some naughty words, so there you go. And just to be clear, I am not a patriots fan, or a buccaneers fan. But I am a fan of greatness and Tom Brady is the greatest football player of all time. The reason why he is the greatest is because he plays the most important position in football - quarterback. He holds all the major career passing records and he has won seven Super Bowls.

[@shackdaddy7106]

@@matthewdaley746 I absolutely agree the better team won. It will be interesting to see how they do next week against the team that has beaten them the last six times they’ve played them. The Niners.

[@shackdaddy7106]

@@matthewdaley746 right now I agree with that analysis, but with Covid being what it is who knows for sure who is going to be playing next Sunday for each team. All I know is I can’t wait. I am so excited about pro football right now that I am thrilled to death that the USFL is coming back this spring. I predict that starting this year spring football will become a permanent part of the American sports landscape.

[@shackdaddy7106]

@@matthewdaley746 If I remember correctly I think he signed a two-year contract with Tampa Bay. If that is true then he would be a free agent. I would be surprised but not shocked if he retired. Between Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson the veteran quarterback market will be very interesting this year. And it will also be interesting to see who takes big Ben’s place in Pittsburgh. Could it be one of the three guys I just mentioned. The thing with the Steelers is that they do not have a history of signing free agents or making big trades. Could that change?

[@pbberkstresser7803]

End result? Lindy infante was brought in- arguably the greatest OC in nfl history- the next 2 years browns lead the league in offense

[@eugenedenbrook322]

And ironically, Bernie's 2 interceptions the next year helped keep Denver in the game, early on.

[@DireHammer]

Kosar could say whatever he wanted, but the reality is Kosar stunk in that game. He completed only 10 of 19 for 66 yards, 1 td and 1 int. He missed every throw downfield, with only 2 completions beyond 10 yards. He also fumbled. Nobody was more to blame than Kosar. On top of that, a leader doesn't blast his coaches in the media. Complete punk move.

[@denisceballos9745]

I watched this game on TV when it happened. You could see the Browns fading as the game wore on. It was unseasonably warm in Miami that day, humid and about 80 degrees. The Browns were coming from playing a game in Cleveland (vs Houston) with game temperatures at 16 degrees with wind chill. Then they went to the Meadowlands and played the Jets in freezing conditions as well. They were clearly gassed by the heat and humidity in Miami, no matter what Bernie claimed.

[@DolFan316]

That's literally the only possible explanation for how a team that was slicing through the Fins D like a hot knife through butter suddenly couldn't do it anymore despite trying the exact same strategy that was working fantastically.

[@ScottCleve33]

@@DolFan316 Well that and the defense then began sticking 7 guys in the box and focusing on the run. It's amazing that no matter how bad a team is at stopping the run if they put 100% focus on stopping it they can do it. It's hard to run the ball when the other team sends more guys than you can block.

[@DolFan316]

@@ScottCleve33 Not always though. It never seemed to work for my team when they'd lose to the Bills in the late '80s and '90s. It didn't even work for them against the Pats the next week.

[@ScottCleve33]

@@DolFan316 Well it doesn't work if the offense keeps running into it and doesn't keep them honest with the pass. Nobody can run a 100% run scheme against a 100% run defense and have it work unless it's an NFL team just bullying a bunch of high school kids. Marty sold out pretty much 100% to do something that the defense set their mind to not let happen. We see it today with the current Browns. The Current Browns have one of the best running back duos in the NFL but can have difficulty at times running it because defenses game plan to take away the run. Even if it means letting the other team pass.

[@SuperBoomshack]

I remember this game because I almost burned my house down while watching it. I started heating oil on the stove top to fry some Crab cakes and I forgot about the oil while rooting for my Fins. The pan caught on fire and the oil splashed all over the oven, I picked up the flaming pan and my friend opened the back door and I threw it out the door. I had to use a blanket to put out the fire.🤣🤣

[@astrostar49]

Cool video. I'd say Bill Walsh benching Montana in the 3rd quarter trailing the Vikings by 17 was an uglier coaching move tho.

[@ScottCleve33]

I always thought that Marty Schottenheimer was overrated. His winning in Cleveland was predicated on the offense system and that wasn't put in place until they brought in Lindy Infante. For those years the Brows were one of the best teams in football and the only reason why they didn't get to the Superbowl was because of breakdowns on defense. Meanwhile as soon as Lindy Infante left the Browns became and average team that had to work to get into the playoffs and have never been the same team since.

[@MilsurpMikeChannel]

As a Chiefs fan who experienced a lot of Marty Schottenheimer playoff heartbreak, especially because he was way too conservative once it hit post-season, I can empathize with Kosar.

[@ScottCleve33]

A fitting ending to this video would have been to point out that in the coming off season the Browns hired offensive coordinator Lindy Infante and drafted Webster Slaughter. The next season we saw the emergence of one of the Reggie Langhorne and the emergence of one of the best offenses in the NFL that took them to two AFC Championship games. That is until Lindy Infante left and Marty thought he could be the offensive play caller and the offense started to fall apart and they were just an average team that managed to get one more shot at a Super bowl but were beat by a much better Denver team.

[@derekcabanaw1789]

The 1969 Oilers had the unwieldy record of 6-6-2 in 1969. They were 7-7 in 1968, before adding the two 2nd place teams in the AFL's final year.

[@johnleeson6946]

Life-long Browns fan! I watched that game in LaMadd, Italy at 2am (or something like that when I was in the Navy) and was so pissed that Marty didn't listen to Kosar! Marty's record of 5-13 in the postseason says it all...

[@cancerstinks1]

marty schottenheimer and the art of the choke

[@Dr.JeremyDunks]

This... I know this frustration with Marty and his conservatism. Sincerely, 1990s Chiefs fan

[@travismcdonald6576]

You really an ancient Steve DeBerg was going to take KC to the SB, especially with a messed up thumb?

[@Fireyninjadog]

This is the game where the browns blew a 21-3 lead

[@Staceyatkinson4496]

Yes it was

[@edbetsworth2772]

11:13 Bill Cowher walks by. Imagine if Cleveland would have hired him, instead of Pittsburgh.

[@JM-pg8qv]

Until he finally won a Superbowl his nickname was Marty Jr. for playing it too safe and not winning the big game.

[@bugsyproductions3140]

Bernie was dead wrong lmao. They were conservative and had no issues with Miami a majority of the game. He was just butt hurt

[@cows543]

Hi depressed Packers fan here, can you do a dumb decisions on the Packers hiring Maurice Drayton (their special teams coach) please?

[@TheCockmeister]

Rip into Marty or not....the run WAS working was it not ?? If.it ain't broke don't fix it....Kevin Stefanski should take note! Sorry Bernie but I'm with Marty in this one....

[@DolFan316]

I remember my 12-year old self getting so disgusted by how this game was going that I shut off the Tv, went to my room, and walked around muttering to myself, "They're actually going to do it! They're actually going to lose to the freaking BROWNS!" for about an hour. Only I used another f word instead of freaking. Then my curiousity got the best of me and I turned it back on again just in time to see Davenport's long TD run and was in complete shock. To this day I insist they only won because I stopped watching.

[@michaelmiller44820]

6:14 Bernie Kosar was always right...

[@1USACitizen192]

Sounds like Bernie was salty because he sucked at passing.

[@DolFan316]

My DolFan grandparents sent me newspaper clippings of their games for over a decade, and the exact same things Kosar said in this video were in the clippings from this game. So for once this is a a story I actually knew about for a while.

[@SpiderFab4]

"I don't like your plan. It sucks."

[@chrisayres2340]

i am not expert enough to know what is right/wrong in regards to this outlook, but i would say the way the browns played the 2nd half was the way the game should have been called for that 2nd half....ur video even talks about during stretches where in the 2nd half the browns were averaging more than 4 yards per carry and simple math says that 3 four yard runs gets you a first down and the clock still runs and not sure what was the total number of sacks for the dolphins the 2nd half, but you do reference 1 play where the browns attempt a pass play on 3rd and manageable and it results in a sack....the patriots proved in game played in the current day nfl that you can beat a great opponent on the road and attempt only 3 passes the entire game

[@rewing84]

Marty's Game Play Exposed Miami's Rush Defense

[@not_jon_vendi]

Not much has changed in Cleveland. We still have a 2 headed monster in Chubb and hunt, we still get up after 2 and then play conservative the rest of the way because we can't trust our mediocre QB. We still get desperate at the end and put out mediocre QB in shitty situations while sitting our best player nick Chubb

[@americansaxon2101]

Bernie Kosar is still my QB. I am 22. I got his autograph and more. The guy is my hero.

[@tookmyjob]

11:12 Bill Cowher

[@tedberitich2491]

Coach Marty Schottenheimer of Cleveland Browns and Coach Chuck Knox of Seattle Seahawks were both conservative and predictable when it came to calling plays on the football field. Not surprised at all!

[@bryceduncan2074]

Ahh yes, my first painful Browns memory. Little did I know there would be so many more to come!

[@fredschmidt6802]

Kosar was right & it's always complicated . Truth be known the two needed to split the difference . Then the run was king that game , but you need to pass . Play action screen play short crossing routs quick outs works with run game . Run or big throws are by polar and don't work .

[@lemfarba4827]

Was that Bill Cowher at 11:11?

[@mikeyerian2562]

Kosar was simply embarrassed b/c he was back in Miami. Passing when you're comfortably ahead is asinine. No coach would do that. Browns could've had better clock management, D could've been better. But they sucked, they were 8-8 with a negative point differential. Schottenheimer was terrible in the playoffs, but this game he lost because he simply had a bad team, not because he was a bad coach.

[@TimEric4d3d3d3]

Special Teams Coach Bill Cowher at 11:12

[@Staceyatkinson4496]

Of all the games I've seen, this is my fav game and I'm a steelers fan, these browns were dangerous

[@patrickcombs3567]

After a decade of Martyball I can attest to Bernie Kosar frustration. Don't get me wrong during that time my chiefs were a force to behold on defense but as for offense. Well we hoped the defence scored alot.

[@CutterHistorical]

A comment (talking about the title card) that would follow Marty ALL HIS CAREER!!!

[@kolfibrown6540]

Did I just see 👀Bill Cohwer I just saw 👀. I didn't know he was coach on the Browns in 1987

[@kolfibrown6540]

He coached the Steelers in the 1990s and a Superbowl in 96

[@grinningchicken]

Marty finally changed his uber-conservative strategy after multiple chokes in the playoff when he got Joe Montana with the Cheifs also he drafted Drew to be a Montana style QB with the Chargers.

[@tjones5719]

He didn’t change his uber conservative strategy. It was that conservative strategy that cost the Chargers the playoff game against the Jets with Brees and against the Patriots with Rivers. Marty was the same conservative person all the way until the end.

[@grinningchicken]

@@tjones5719 Brees vs Jets game SD threw the ball 14 times in the 4th qtr including the game tying TD then marched down the field in OT and kaeding missed a short FG. Rivers vs Pats SD marched the from their own 17 to the endzone 5 runs 4 passes to go up 21-13 then picked Brady off to essentially end the game but the corner decided to run it back fumbled Brady scored to tie it up. Rivers 0-2 passing gave it back to Brady who tacked on another FG. Rivers led a desperate drive got in range and Kaeding missed. Neither game was lost due to conservative play calling Brees threw 42X Rivers threw 32x

[@tjones5719]

@@grinningchicken “Brees vs Jets game SD threw the ball 14 times in the 4th qtr including the game tying TD then marched down the field in OT and kaeding missed a short FG.” Almost half of their passes came in the 4th quarter when they were behind and OT. So you just confirmed my point with that game - ultra conservative caused them to get behind. “Rivers vs Pats SD marched the from their own 17 to the endzone 5 runs 4 passes to go up 21-13 then picked Brady off to essentially end the game but the corner decided to run it back fumbled”. Incorrect as there was nearly 6 minutes left. You aren’t sealing a game with an interception with that much time left. And you again failed to see how you just confirmed my point as they played so tight during the game that they left the Patriots in it. “Brady scored to tie it up. Rivers 0-2 passing gave it back to Brady who tacked on another FG. Rivers led a desperate drive got in range and Kaeding missed. Neither game was lost due to conservative play calling Brees threw 42X Rivers threw 32x”. Incorrect. First both your examples confirmed my point. Second it’s not number of passes that equals conservative, it’s the sequence and type of play calls. Third, both games demonstrated a very conservative and tight offense compared to what those offenses played during the regular season.

[@grinningchicken]

@@tjones5719 I didn't confirm your point. Jets vs SD The game wasn't ultra conservative 6 out of 8 drives opened with a pass from Brees. The play calling was fine they just didnt win SD vs Pats they called runs as the 1st play on 12 out of 14 drives however they kept ripping huge gains with 8 of the 12 runs going for 5+ yd and 4 10+ yd SD also went for it on 4th down 2 time in the first half. The problem wasn't that they had a wide open attack and went into a shell. The best player on the team was Tomlinson they got him the ball early and often and it worked. They were in a position to win and failed to execute down the stretch

[@tjones5719]

@@grinningchicken “I didn't confirm your point.” Yes you did, you pointed out in both games how the Chargers offense wasn’t opened up in either game until it was too let in the Jets game and left a dangerous team too close for too long in the Patriots. “Jets vs SD The game wasn't ultra conservative 6 out of 8 drives opened with a pass from Brees.” Again whether you pass or not doesn’t equate to conservative, it’s the sequence and type of play calls. And in both the Jets and Patriots they were conservative. “The play calling was fine they just didnt win”. No it wasn’t look at how many times they were 3 and out. If I remember there was likely half of their drives during the first three quarters - until they started opening it up more. “SD vs Pats they called runs as the 1st play on 12 out of 14 drives however they kept ripping huge gains with 8 of the 12 runs going for 5+ yd and 4 10+ yd SD also went for it on 4th down 2 time in the first half.” You can keep saying this but it doesn’t change the sequence and type of plays were conservative. “The problem wasn't that they had a wide open attack and went into a shell.” It was. When they intercepted early in the third, they went total conservative and didn’t even get a field goal attempt. They played it tight. “The best player on the team was Tomlinson they got him the ball early and often and it worked.” No it didn’t. Playing that way took away the big play capability of that team. I think they had one but that was not normal for that team. “They were in a position to win and failed to execute down the stretch”. Because they played conservative and made both games closer than what they should have been. I am waiting for you to make a coherent argument that actually doesn’t support my point. You haven’t yet.

[@alandenson6649]

As I remember people were saying Cleveland should have been kicked out of the playoffs having been 8-8 in favor of the Denver Broncos at 11-5.

[@jrb9191]

don't understand. He is pissed they threw deep twice , but at Miami they would just throw deep. The game plan worked. They were up big. The defense failed

[@NickCC23]

The very next week the Patriots gashed Miami with the run and won the AFC Championship 31-14.

[@comfortat]

Sorry, Bernie, you did not play well. Blaming the coach for not handing the reins to a rookie QB is silly. Miami made adjustments at halftime. Your team was 8-8, and were lucky to ever have the lead. Scottenheimer was blamed for the Drive and the Fumble, and now this, too? Sorry, dude, look in the mirror.

[@luisvaldes1568]

Kosar's home field in collage.

[@mrmoose6619]

Martyball. Great in the regular season... terrible in the playoffs.

[@diaz5292]

Bernie forgot the age old mantra: offense wins games, but Schottenheimer wins championships.

[@Rantman9]

I watched that game as a kid with my step father & grandfather, we all knew that Marty was gonna try to throw in the 2nd half & once they did, we have the game. Marty was a good coach, but easy to predict.

[@marioaustin9312]

Kosar is still the best qb the browns have had

[@David.M._1979]

Well Everytime Kosar complained about his coaches. And wanted change he ended up screwing Cleveland.

[@josephmiller9424]

But if this was true then why did Marty win every way he went with other QBs other Kosar

[@Staceyatkinson4496]

Still love this game

[@chrisrobinson8339]

1:52 WTF😄

[@tm-cv3qt]

Bernie was like a backyard baller. Fun to watch.

[@sirvenomik]

Well he’s the qb just change the play… but I suppose he’s a rookie

[@chrisuncleahmad]

MartyBRUH

[@JeffWiersma]

Marty Ball!

[@wewin03]

Marty Schottenheimer was the worst great coach ever.

[@mrmonty86]

You forgot about the 7-9 2010 Seahawks that made the postseason.

[@eliseocolonjr2133]

Marshawn is still running!

[@retrogaminggenesis6102]

He said first time

[@mgb4692]

I freely acknowledge that the Niners were the best team in a bad division (Pete rebuilding the Hawks, Rams in seemingly their 450th reset with Bradford, Cards post-Warner) yet they were buried by ATM Smith, resulting in Sing getting fired and the first appearance of Jim, um, um, um Tomsula. Harbaugh didn't really turn the Niners around as much as he got Smith to stop turning the ball over. Aldon and Kaep were the only real additions, everything else was in place.

[@KWCline91]

I think he was speaking about teams that had made the postseason with that record before 1985. The Seahawks were after.

[@mgb4692]

The Browns did go to the playoffs at 4-5 in the strike season, winning a three-way conference tiebreaker (one of the teams being Seattle, who they beat at the Dome in week one)

[@kevinramsey417]

Just typical Martyball.

[@effend446]

Defense choked. End of story.

[@mariothemartian2016]

In my country many innocent goat die in the war. Very sad. God Bless The United States of America!

[@teen_laqueefa]

Ok, call the goat people over at the Murray Ken gubbermint to replace your greatest of all times.

[@mrmercedes8528]

Ok Soooooooo first - you can’t say over 40 years later when it’s only been 36 years ( January 1986 ------January 2022)

[@retrogaminggenesis6102]

Calm down dude LOL not gonna hurt you

[@mrmercedes8528]

@@retrogaminggenesis6102 ; just pointing it out 🤣🤣: I really don’t care

[@chrisrobinson8339]

Yeah. He had me confused for a moment.

[@ScottCleve33]

He can see into the future.

[@Daniel-cu8zt]

The collapse of the conservative!! Lmao...