The Ugly Truth About Paid Game Masters

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In this video, we'll be discussing the debate surrounding paid game masters versus free game masters in the world of role-playing games and Dungeons & Dragons. We'll cover the pros and cons of being a paid game master, the value of a game master's time, and the cost of entertainment. We'll also explore the controversy surrounding game masters charging players for their services and whether it's justified or not. Whether you're a game master yourself or a player looking to start a campaign, this video will provide valuable insights into the world of paid game masters.
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0:52 - Why Paid GMing Is Okay
0:59 - Value of Entertainment
3:17 - Quality of Game
4:50 - Time Commitment
6:08 - GM Supply
7:10 - Difficulty of GMing
9:46 - Why Paid GMing Is Wrong
10:00 - Barrier to Entry
12:03 - RPGs Are a Hobby!
13:17 - Not in the Spirit
14:16 - Gming Isn’t Hard
15:00 - The Dark Side
DISCLAIMER: We at the DM Lair no longer support Wizards of the Coast due to the unconscionable and, frankly, malicious actions by their senior leadership with respect to the Open Gaming License (OGL). However, we still love D&D and RPGs, and we remain dedicated to helping the community, particularly game masters. So, while you will see videos that talk about D&D and 5e resources, the reason we create them stems from our desire to continue providing support for GMs who continue to run D&D for their groups. To be clear, there is nothing wrong with D&D; there is something wrong at WOTC. And it is the latter that we take a strong stance against. The DM Lair team still loves D&D; we still love the community.
#dungeonsanddragons #dungeonmaster #gamemaster

[@theDMLair]

STARTPLAYING | Play in quality tabletop RPGs run by professional game masters, or run your own game! startplaying.games/ THE SECRET ART OF GAME MASTERY | Get decades of GM experience in one book! www.kickstarter.com/projects/thedmlair/the-secret-art-of-game-mastery

[@damnghen7509]

This video would've hit different if it wasn't sponsored by a company that profits off this video's topic.

[@DnDandVideoGames]

@@damnghen7509 Doesn't help that a lot of DMs on that site are brand new DMs. There is no verification on qualifications (like how long they DM) and the reviews can be botted (and they encourage this for "social proof," up to 20 reviews per account).

[@schemage2210]

@@DnDandVideoGames At least Startplaying is a hell of a lot better in terms of arranging paid games than roll20 or reddit.

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@DnDandVideoGames not everyone who wants to GM can afford to do so purely as a hobby. I can respect the hustle if someone went on there charging perhaps 20-50$ total a game while they built their skillset and raised the price as they became a better GM

[@chevaliermalfet4538]

I almost exclusively use SPG. I have a difficult schedule w family and work and it would be unfair to have to cancel even a one-shot the DM prepared because I had to bail. I don't mind dropping $20, it's less than a couple of drinks at the pub or a movie. Certainly less than most hobbies and DMs have all the books and tools to add value. I've never had a bad experience and have had many really great ones. I think it's wonderful that a person can make a living doing something they love. Way better than paying for the mediocre rubbish in theatres or streaming services. Great value for money!!!! The argument that "you sold out man" should have died in the '80s.

[@robertstone4998]

I play in a paid GM game, and I sought it out for consistency. When people are paying to be there, there is an inherent commitment to the game. People take it more seriously and it removes a lot of potentially problematic players from the pool of players.

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

Problem players can pay money too

[@nabra97]

Agree. Also, we can discuss joining another group if the game collapses for some reason (it happens sometimes anyway, people have their lives). And also I can play with people my age (I'm uncomfortable playing with teenage groups because I don't want to be blasted with immature humor from people I don't even know - people don't usually communicate boundaries in my local community; I'm from Eastern Europe if needed for the context, - and I don't want to play the game with "21+" stuff).

[@goontubeassos7076]

@@theophrastusbombastus1359 That’s how you weed out entitlement behavior players too. Pay level games, higher paid games are invited from a pool of lower paid games to get better players into higher paid games only.

[@odinulveson9101]

Exactly Robert! There needs to be enough experience under the belt before getting paid in dosh to be a d.m. until then. Players can pay in form of goodies for not only the d.m ( unless birthday ) but also share with the rest of the group. Jummies, drinks, resources, minis, dice even

[@elgatochurro]

I'd just wanna make sure it's good though

[@nathancheng6995]

Something that Luke didn't mention is that many GMs pay for resources out of their own pocket. GMs own far more sourcebooks and that costs quite a bit and charging players helps split the cost of supplemental materials.

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

As a player I don't mind us all chipping in for an adventure the DM is going to run, bc we're all getting fun from it, and it is a financial burden on one person But as a DM I never ask the players for anything. If they offer, that's nice, but I don't hold them to ransom and refuse to play until they pay

[@RottenRogerDM]

True. As of today, I have spend $237.07 on gaming and gaming related stuff.

[@Minodrec]

@@RottenRogerDM I ... would rather not count... XD

[@thomazjunqueira1338]

As a Brazilian, I just pirate everything

[@WolforNuva]

A good point. I've spent thousands of dollars over the years on books, miniatures, paints, 3D printers and other accessories.

[@sitnamkrad]

I completely agree, with a slight caveat that's somewhat touched upon in the "dark side" part of the video but I think deserves some extra attention. When being a paid GM, it is actually your job to provide entertainment. You are no longer "Just another player at the table". And unlike a normal table where everyone's enjoyment is supposed to be equal, when you get paid, your own enjoyment comes second. After all, it is a collaborative game, you can't run without players, but at this moment I don't think anyone would give any serious thought to "paid players" with maybe the exception of shows like Critical Role. What I'm trying to get at is that once you start asking money, you should accept that his will come at the cost of some of your own enjoyment. And perhaps this is part of where the pushback comes from. People seeing GMs that want all of the money for running the game, but still want to be treated as "just another player" and carry none of the responsibilities that come with even being a GM, let alone a paid one.

[@theDMLair]

Yes, I completely agree. The moment a GM starts accepting money to run the game, their entertainment does come second to that of the players.

[@Fittrus]

Love these comments. I entirely agree!

[@dmozymandias]

@@theDMLair I am not sure about that. As someone who does paid GMing a bunch I can say that 'If the GM isn't having fun, the players aren't having fun either'. Nobody want's to play with a GM who isn't happy to be there as well.

[@aronlinde1723]

So we are basically saying it's my typical Forever GM/DM life. TBH, I have the most fun when my players are having fun. I want them to feel emotional and end with a positive feeling that they can look back on.

[@sitnamkrad]

@@dmozymandias Just to be clear, nobody is saying you should be hating your job consistently. But something being a job means you have to take the bad with the good. That's why you are getting paid, to put up with the bad but still deliver on your part of the deal. Good entertainers can do this at least to some extend (there's always a limit of course). But if you're asking to get paid, but not deliver the moment things become slightly inconvenient for you, you are really just asking people to pay you to do your hobby. And while it's totally up to the individual consumer to decide whether or not they accept that deal, in the grand scheme of TTRPGs, this mentality will result in lots of people feeling like they are not getting their money's worth and push back on the idea of paid GMs in general. If you're any other kind of entertainer, like a musician, actor, or comedian, you can't just bail on a contract either without consequences. Even youtubers and streamers will see a drop in viewers if they fail to deliver consistently. That's all part of the job, and if it's not something you want to deal with, you shouldn't make it your job.

[@FeenMachine88]

When I go hang out with friends, I might take out a guitar and play for them for free. When I go out to a bar, they may pay me to get on stage a perform for complete strangers. I feel like this is the underlying difference that relates to D&D. If my friends messaged and asked me to DM , it's a free game. If I'm spending the time to build a world, write plot hooks, work on sessions for hours for a group of strangers, I wanna get something in return. Also to add, A paid session should have a free first session , even if your jumping in to a already started game, I feel like before you sink money into a DM you should see how they play, Similar to if I was going to book a musical act I would want to hear them preform before booking.

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

When I DM I'm already getting something out of it, as I'm playing the game as well

[@ZorValachan]

I agree a lot with this sentiment. I wouldn't think of charging my friends who've been playing with me for 3 decades. Some of us GM more than others, but if any of us need a break, burn out, etc. Someone else steps in. We also know who we're playing with. In the past sometimes I had a fund people chipped in for buying game materials. But depending on the game and GM we've done everything from tactical maps to TotM. For complete strangers, I could see a pay to play, even though I've never done it. In Torganized Play it's more I'll GM and my payment is XP or character choices normally not available and the chance to play as well (not having to be forever GM)

[@kelticowl9400]

This is exactly how I feel about it, if it's a friends game and we are playing instead of getting together somewhere else I'm happy to do it for free. But if it's a table of strangers I don't see the harm in asking for a little compensation for the trouble =)

[@FeenMachine88]

@@theophrastusbombastus1359 I have fun regardless the same way I hav fun performing a music number to strangers on stage. I guess I can have fun while being compensated for the hours it's taken me to get to the level of paid performances.

[@Minodrec]

@@theophrastusbombastus1359 Still, there are some unfun aspects of hosting a game.

[@mixsys4045]

I'm fine with paid GMing and considered doing paid games. However, my issue is that I don't want to turn a hobby into a job which by extension may kill the fun for me and my players.

[@mothwhisp]

Yep, this is it for me! I feel enough pressure trying to make sure all my mates have fun in my games, and worry constantly about overstepping as a DM, DMPC-ing, letting someone down etc. I find it hard enough to make sure I'm having fun as well as them, I can't imagine the stress I would feel if they were paying me for the games and I was therefore obliged put my own enjoyment second. I imagine that prep would start to feel like homework and sessions would start to feel less like a collaborative performance and more like me charging admission for a solo act. I much prefer this being my hobby where I can devote what time I have to it, but also surprise my players when I'm able to do lots of prep one week and really wow them, because their expectations are reasonable since they know I'm doing this all in my spare time and for free.

[@animeotaku307]

This and some other things keep me from seriously thinking about being a paid DM.

[@CrusherEAGLE]

I run paid games for a living and whilst it’s true it is now a job and not a hobby… it’s definitely a fun job for sure!

[@phillee427]

Same here

[@leahwilton785]

Tangentially related- I run a game for some friends. My friends contribute financially to game related expenses that often fall upon the gm (books, maps, terrain, etc). They don't pay me, but the do help pay for the things that help me run the game. This is one of the ways that we try to offset the unequal burden of player vs gm.

[@GutisFive]

That arrangement sounds really cool

[@curtisreid3327]

We play at noon on Sundays, and I have an optional brunch that I ask for a donation for. The brunch is an hour before the game, I thoroughly enjoy making it, and if the donation is at least $5, it covers the cost. Half my players show up for the brunch, and those are the half that are most prepared, get the most out of the session, read the emails, and respond to the texts. They also donate way more than $5.

[@laughingpanda4395]

I have been DM'ing off and on for nearly 30 years. I have collected and painted around 800 minis, I bought a 42' tv for a VTT, i build terrain, I own risers, aoe dmg disks, condition rings and prep around 4 hours per week. IVE NEVER CHARGED A DIME. Could I? Sure. But I get just as much out of the game as my players do so getting paid for a hobby feels....sleazy. That said, I dont mind if others get paid for it. Its challenging and a lot goes into it. It's expensive. I get it. I just cant charge for something I enjoy doing. It just feels... wrong. Idk. Maybe it's just me.

[@xalxika]

Same here. Been DMing for 24 years, sometimes running as many as 4 games a week. I have never, and will never, charge for my games. I refuse to place an additional barrier into this amazing hobby!

[@davidmorgan6896]

Completely agree. It would be nice if players were better, but I still need them.

[@TheSteam02]

Yeah it's just you. Every single DM out there is charging money except you. /s

[@laughingpanda4395]

@@TheSteam02 I think the point I was trying to make went right over your head.

[@HawkBladeThe]

It's entirely your right to not charge. I happen to love doing this full time, having the time to make everything wonderful. If I had to work a traditional job, I wouldn't be able to run 5 games and spend hours making maps and tokens and storylines. I get paid about $20/hr of playtime, and put about 12 hours a week into preparation for the next session for each game.

[@greatgyatso5429]

I love being a paid GM. I find it makes me take things more seriously. I improv less and prepare more- and when I do need to improv something, it fits in seamlessly

[@rabbidninja79]

How did you get started doing it?

[@kidthegeek]

@@rabbidninja79 my recommendation is start playing, the literal sponsor of the video. If you're unsure about whether you can do it just play in a few paid games to get a feel for them and see if you think you can.

[@catnugget7257]

"I love getting money"

[@rabbidninja79]

@Samuel Lagace I'm sure I can. Though I've never run or played an online game but I've run games for about 25 years. To be fair, I surfed the comments before watching the video, so I didn't see the sponsor at the time. Thank you for your advice.

[@greatgyatso5429]

@@catnugget7257 I love you too cat nugget

[@jessatlife]

I’m very happy to provide my DM something in return for his time and effort. I’ve been in a weekly paid campaign (via StartPlaying) since October, with people that were all strangers at first, and we’ve been having a great time. The DM and the players have all been very consistent and invested in the game, which is something I could never find before in home games. If I had to let go of all my entertainment subscriptions and keep just one, that one would be my paid D&D campaign.

[@Minodrec]

Glad you found a good product that suit your need. May I ask you what you expect from a paid game ? Does it have to be homebrew ? What kind of pace are you looking for ? Did you look for a particular game or theme ? Was it easy to find like minded players ?

[@DakonBlackblade2]

The something your DM gets in return is called fun, DMing is not a job, a RPG session is not a product, if he is not doing it to have fun he is doing it wrong.

[@chaiv8182]

@@DakonBlackblade2 you can get paid for something you have fun doing.

[@Enazel]

@@DakonBlackblade2 You can enjoy a job, and allow you to do it more or better because you can put money back into it. Personally I don't charge to run my games, but I don't have an issue if people want to.

[@brutalremains6098]

@@Enazel yee and even for the most fun parts, if your a gm that’s charging I’d imagine your doing 10 or so hours a week for session prep and a lot of that is going to be pure work vs all fun

[@x51_Flying_Toaster]

First off, I GM for friends for free, and am not interested in getting paid or paying to play, but overall I don't really care about paid GMs - I don't think it hurts the hobby at all, and possibly helps it a bit, so no problem. But one concern I have is actually what you list as your first point - GMs provide entertainment. It's true to an extent, but RPGs are a collaborative experience where everyone contributes and provides entertainment for everyone else. I worry that some players, when paying for a GM, will expect to be entertained without contributing themselves. Of course there are multiple ways to address it, but entitled players are not a good thing.

[@theDMLair]

Yes, I agree. Players should also contribute to the experience. In my experience with paid games, you tend to get good players who are invested in the game and do contribute in a positive way. Not always, but most of the time. I think paid GMing does help the hobby overall. There are probably some paid GMs that hurt the hobby by running poor games that give a negative rap, but the same can be said for non-paid GMs, too.

[@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291]

But he compares it to going to see a movie. Would you expect someone watching a movie to be part of the entertainment? No, bc they paid to be entertained.

[@TheSteam02]

@@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291 When watching a movie, at worst, you just watch a shitty movie. When playing a TTRPG, at worst, well, go see anything on r/RPGHorrorStories. Imagine paying $20 for PTSD.

[@Minodrec]

​@@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291 The average random player on the internet barely add any entertainement to the game. Some even don't even show up. I have met great players during my discord open table. I thanks them to make dealing with manchild worth it. I had a plauer blacklist and white list. Guess wich one was the longest. Once you have your white list it becomes enjoyable. But I don't have the patience to deal with this every other year.

[@_qwerty_3545]

@@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291exactly what I was thinking. I don’t have a problem with gms being paid, but imo it wouldn’t make sense to pay a gm more than I would pay to go to the movies per session

[@Jezroth]

Hey man, I just wanted to say that it was nice to hear some support for this. I've been a paid GM full time for almost 6 years now and while I've loved it, it's been so much work. Hearing people's negativity constantly on the topic really made it feel like I had to defend it or support people who were trying to get into it. All very good points, well worded and appreciated, thank you

[@theDMLair]

You are very welcome. Happy to hear that you've been able to do full-time DMing! Agreed that is TONS of work. :D

[@Jezroth]

@@theDMLair It really can be, it's been so rewarding though. I've had groups of all ages and watching some people learn that they enjoy role playing or rolling dice and in some case watching real life character development as kids grow and learn then show that growth in their characters. It's honestly just so wholesome.

[@LightPink]

How much money do you make and how many hours do you work?

[@Jezroth]

@@LightPink all in all, I’m working 40-50 hours a fortnight of paid work with another 10-15 of prep time on average and earning a bit less than a regular full time job but it’s so much more enjoyable and I’m ok with that

[@Hewhowantstoknow]

As someone who's only been GMing for a few years now but who's been looking into potentially starting paid GMing. When did you think you were ready to start charging people? And how much did you charge initially per session?

[@Brevard1986]

I have zero problems with people paying to play games or DMs/GMs getting paid to run a game. In fact, the more power to them. My own personal stance is mine and not something I want people replicate. It's just my stance which is: I will never pay to play a TTRPG game or ask my players to pay whenever I run a game (common group food/drink expectations an exception) because I don't like money getting in the way. I don't want my GM beholden to 'perform' exactly what I want. And I don't want to be beholden to my players for exactly what they want.

[@HawkBladeThe]

The first thing that I tell new players is that while they are paying, I am a pro and my job is to make the table and game good and safe for everyone. I work with my players on a lot of stuff, I absolutely try to tell their story, but I've been doing that for 19 years already so that's not something that happened because I started charging. One of the first things I learned when I started doing it through SPG is that I am both the Bard and the Bouncer. I'll entertain you, but it's on my terms, and if that doesn't work for you, I will gladly refund and remove you from my games.

[@olthar6]

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised you didn't cover how paid GMs provide an important service. There are so many players who don't have a friend who wants to GM a game. A paid GM creates a game that you can play and enjoy. So the alternative to paid GM might be no game. Game > No Game.

[@theDMLair]

That's a great point! Thank you, Mike!

[@phillee427]

He did elude to that..

[@Thenarratorofsecrets]

when you said unsavory or dangerous jobs get paid more i laughed. I'm a nurse. 4 years of education, 8 years of medical experience, my pay is pretty meh TBH, and i get to deal with human waste, and occasionally violent /or backbreaking work, seriously, moving people around all shift kills the back.

[@Gaawachan]

Yeah, I agree. Some of the worst and hardest jobs are also the lowest-paying. Edit: changed wording for the sake of clarity.

[@JoeyTee420]

Yup. EMT-B here, i get paid 20/hour and I respond to emergencies in the field. Kinda ridiculous but it’s in the works of changing soon I hope

[@Thenarratorofsecrets]

@@JoeyTee420 I started as a basic 8 years ago. Major city on the east coast. $12.45 an hour

[@JoeyTee420]

@@Thenarratorofsecrets goddamn. I can’t even imagine having to try to survive on that; do you run 96s or something??? (I live in CA, so things are naturally more expensive and minimum wages are much higher here)

[@jaytee6262]

@@Thenarratorofsecrets I quit as a basic when it was $9 an hour. Didn't long to figure out the math on that one. Was working for a private transport co. and rode on a volly squad in the NE.

[@vapypr]

My problem is the gaming should be amoung friends. My group are all friends, or friends of friends. I GM because i enjoy it. If you have for our five people wanting to play, some one needs to step up and GM. You don't hire some stranger to come in. And if not in my current group and looking for one, i would find some one who wants to GM, or volunteer myself. The GM is a player as well. It should be done for fun, not as a business. Now, my current group does do things for me. I don't have to pitch in for food or drink, even though i still offer and will bring stuff. They even bought me a 3d printer for my birthday.

[@dittrich04]

Agreed. "Should" be with friends is a great point, but when there are so many wanting to play and many don't have friends to play with them it makes sense to pay for the service and make friends along the way.

[@mandisaw]

Based on comments & surveys I've read elsewhere, friends is the main thing a lot of folks seem to lack. Maybe it's generational, or situational, but seems to be very hard for some folks to open up and make acquaintances, even for something as innocuous as D&D. My own experience is that it's not that hard to find geeks, even among coworkers or folks at the local coffee shop, nevermind an actual FLGS/FLCS. And I've become friends with folks I met through gaming. Cities make it easier, but I know folks from small towns who still found folks to geek-out with.

[@null_error_valuable]

No problem here with DMs getting paid for their services; if you got the skills to pay the bills, go get it girl! In the group I DM, we prefer the barter system, the DM doesn't have to bring the bourbon, pizza or snacks. I still contribute, but it was a players' house rule they came up with during session zero as a way to say thank you for your service.

[@MephiticMiasma]

Will work for food. 😋 Nice!

[@Hacker-at-Large]

Even playing in college, the players bought the pizza or brought snacks, same difference.

[@MrViper5822]

'While not all free players are bad players, almost all bad players refuse to pay for games.' This is what I have generally found over the years on Roll20. Payed games usually have more dedicated, serious and considerate players.

[@MsMotherWolf]

There are still a few bad players that slip through, but you can weed out most with a fee for the game. I had a player recently join who did okay the first session with the group and then next session nearly tanked it with announcing their character would kill the other characters for touching a piece of paper they put on a door and that removing it, violated their player agency.

[@matthewlane]

"This is what I have generally found over the years on Roll20." Mate if you are "gaming" on roll20, you aren't really gaming at all.

[@davidarmstrong1617]

Great video! Here's a topic you might have considered but did not mention: "Downside to paid GMing: When a player becomes a payer, they are no longer simply a player... they're a client." Once a player starts paying for games, they are not simply players anymore... They're customers. As customers/clients, it's inevitable that they develop a certain sense of entitlement. All customers want to receive their money's worth, no exceptions. Paying players are often very quick to jump on the "unfair" bandwagon, quick to cry "foul" on what they might consider a bad call, or even feel cheated if they think rewards are not as generous as they expected. Much like you might consider small portions to be a rip-off when dining out, a player who doesn't get the magic items they want or as much treasure as they expect will feel like you aren't providing a good service. A paid DM may find him/herself pandering far more than they might otherwise if they were running a free game for a group of friends. I feel like you could probably do an entire video just on this topic - I know I'd be interested in hearing arguments for both sides, and how to alleviate these concerns. Thank you, Sir.

[@HawkBladeThe]

I don't agree with this. I've got a few games up right now, and while I have had 1 or 2 entitled people, the majority of people that have played at my table have been great. Great roleplay, great ideas. Also, I'm far more likely to pander for a game of friends, because if I give someone a +10 vorpal shovel or Command Word: Blackhole at a home game and it goes wrong I can just do silly stuff or whatever I want. When it comes to a paid game, I ensure that everything is fair. Certain players may have more focus in certain sessions, but that's just how the game goes.

[@Kokosnuss]

The perspective change from playing to running a game is HUGE. You get a whole new understanding of how things are constructed, brought together and generally speaking see the strings pulled of the more mechanical aspects of the game. What this implies is that you will also notice the sometimes immense work your dear gm has put into the game for you and your party. Creating worlds, characters, monsters, learning the rules, making new mechanics, writing, lots of writing, deleting and rewriting, providing audiovisual elements like maps, illustrations, music, creating atmosphere with light, sounds and managing every aspect of everything just written and more in a session. Of course not every gm is the same. It's perfecttly fine to run what's already written and use what's established. But no matter how much effort your gm puts into his game: gamemastering is a passion and if most things work out, it is such a rewarding experience. For me, the appreciation of my friends whom I run for is enough. Speaking of which, I would never think of asking them for money. However: if it were random people I would definitly think of asking for compensation for the materials at least. And if I were that good of a gm, experienced in most ways, providing fundamental knowledge of the game, online or offline materials, theatric skills and generally speaking just rly good entertainment value, then yes, I would definitly do this as a job! It would be a fuckin awesome job in my opinion. BUT and this a big one: DND was always about comfort and qualitytime with friends for me and I believe it's the same for most of y'all. Most players simply do not have the understanding of the complexity behind running a game, so this is a public service announcement: Say thank you to your gm a little more often. :)

[@telarr9164]

I think I'd compare it less to actual professions (like medical professionals ) but maybe more like paying a guide to take you on a hike. Yes, you have the option of going on a hike with just friends but if you pay a guide to take you , they are providing something that your friends cannot eg expertise, or reliably showing up week after week !

[@domenceuspriest]

This is a great comparison! There is nothing stopping people from doing it themselves, but paying someone for this service can help give a consistent experience for people new to an activity.

[@stocazzosbiricuda4105]

I'm don't like the idea of "professional GM" personally. Main reason is that I prefer to not turn a nice hobby into a bad work. The amount of money that i should ask to my players to run and prepare a session would be stupidly high if it was calculated as "money for hour".

[@critfail8714]

Honestly as someone who desperately wanted a consistent game with equally invested players and a DM, I first tried paid games last year and have found an incredible community as a result. I completely understand if some folks don’t like the idea or can’t afford it. No shade from me, but I feel like the investment means my DM is putting his all into each session. Beyond that player attendance has been so much more consistent as a result too.

[@notmuch_23]

My main concern for paying to play an RPG is that money tends to bring out the worst in people, and in every entertainment medium mentioned, greed has left its taint in many ways. I really hope money won't ruin paid GMs, but I fear it will.

[@---jx4vh]

Money doesn't bring out worst from people, it just amplifies both good and bad. Give good people money and they become better.

[@dddddd-ut7ud]

As someone who has knows a couple of GMs that run paid games, I think it's completely fair to have paid games Although, as for me, I wouldn't like to neither run them, nor play them. Money brings a certain level of expectation - level that you, as a GM, have to meet. It also turns a hobby into a job, where you need to satisfy your client's needs - best analogy for me would be art: while you draw as a hobby, you have complete control over what, when and why you draw. If you start taking commisions, you are locked into your commision and what your client wants, which can still be enjoyable, but just doesn't feel the same. GMing for me is also a deeply personal thing - one that I only share with friends, collegues or just people I already know to be cool or at least those who my other friends know to be cool. I, like, even like running games for 2 players more than for 3-4. It just feels like a get together where we gather to have some fun, not watch a movie. Speaking of movies - That is something I didn't really understand in games of TTRPGS, maybe because I came from a play-by-post origin with a maximum of 3 players in the group, but in my opinion GM just sets the scene - the players do the fun and entertaining stuff, thus also putting in a great deal of effort - characters are motivated to do something, change things in the world not because they are enticed with a plothook, but because they want to. Obviously, I still place plothooks and such, but initiative from the players is something I love. And the agreement that in some sessions some characters may hog the spotlight more. I may be completely wrong, but, at least in my opinion, a paid game creates the need to "Get the most value for your money" and I really, really don't like it. It absolutely can be fun for other people though!

[@Minodrec]

Yeah. In player driven games paid GMing makes less sense. But I don't know if those group have the same DM shortage issues.

[@davidmorgan6896]

In play-by-mail, the GM is little more than the cruncher of numbers and arbitrator of rules. As you say, they set the scene, but the players do the cool stuff. Face-to-face is different. The GM still sets the scene and arbitrates the rules, but must also play the world and everyone in it who is not a PC. I'm not saying that running a PBM is not a lot of work, back in the day my friend used to spend many, many hours a week on his Three Musketeers style PBM (using the En Garde rules), but it doesn't require as much involvement and immersion as face-to-face GMing.

[@dddddd-ut7ud]

@@davidmorgan6896 can totally agree with you! I myself run and actually prefer running games in the "classic" way now, just with fewer players. Thank you for your insight though ^^

[@dddddd-ut7ud]

@@Minodrec True indeed! But, well, my game I'm running right now started with Waterdeep dragon heist and now we're finishing another adventure, so it's not the sandbox style game, at least not fully. I'm speaking more about player attitude - they often take an active instead of reactive stance, not the other way around. Instead of experiencing the world they make the world experience them, so to speak, and that, in my experience, requires the group that is close-knit enough and willing to give that player the necessary space and spotlight as well as support, which I'm not sure everyone is willing to do in a paid game, at least a lot of the time. I could be wrong though!

[@tinaprice4948]

I have had 4 paid GM's and only 1 out of those was good (professional, on time, well prepared). 1 didn't do any prep for the games and spent alot of our time lollygagging and not moving the game forward ( she was a DM getting paid by a DM that supposedly trains DMs and lets them use his discord, he seemed great during session 0 and then handed us off to her, who clearly doesnt DM). The best DM's I have found were ones that love the game and love DMing and don't charge.

[@legitdragon6202]

Also, many of the GM's are giving a large portion of time/ commitment from their outside life - 100"s of hours for campaigns - in many cases for total strangers, which many people wouldn't do, and gives a way for people to play.

[@anarchylove92]

As a dm, it sounds like a good time. As players as paying for that spot on the table. So they're very likely to pay attention and not ruin the game for others.

[@strikerdx2]

I'm a dm as well but while i'm ok with paid gms i'd rather not charge. I gm my friends mostly and it'd be wierd to ask them for money and i'd rather keep it as a hobby than start seing it as a source of income.

[@Senior-Donjusticia]

Yesssssss! Embrace your rage! Rant about the most recent Star Wars trilogy, and your journey towards a million subs will be complete!!

[@johnlee7164]

Negative engagement. Gooooood! Embrace the "Somehow, Palpatine returned."

[@neilhenderson6602]

I am up for a Luke on Star Wars vid.

[@FlintFireforge]

I am going through something similar with my paid games. Anxiety about DM has recently messed up my desire to run more paid games but I also know I have to push through. Thanks for the advice .

[@robertburns4429]

If you, as a player, want to get into a given GM's game specifically then you are acknowledging that said GM is providing a service you value.

[@leatherguru8904]

I'm not 4 paid dms However, Players that pay seem to me more engaged.

[@Minodrec]

I had the same thoughts. I stopped recruiting players threw free venue like Discord fot this reason. I don't want to be a paid GM. But a club membership solved many issue. It brings access to shared terrain and miniatures. Players are more likely to invest in your game system. Problematic players can be dealt with by the club direction.

[@FerociousCookie]

My only real thing I have to comment on in your arguments. The owner of the cinema usually wouldn’t be part of experience. It’s okay to expect players to bring the same level of commitment to the game as the dm. Whether that’s in pre game prep, cooperative world building for deeper storylines, rich characters to play etc. if the players aren’t putting in the effort charge them sure because you are providing entertainment but one of the greatest things about ttrpgs is the collaboration between players and dms

[@theDMLair]

That's a good point.

[@whistlerryan6216]

Thank you for this video! I'm been a full time paid DM for 3 months now. I was able to go from self employed courier driving to doing my passion as my job. It was the best thing I ever did and I won't deny that it can be hard work and there is pressure involved to perform but the pros for me outweigh the cons! The players are all invested in the worlds I build for them and every game just builds my experience and passion even more! It's great to see the sentiment towards paid DMing shift in favor of it and this video certainly helps!

[@TheDelver]

I would love to be compensated for DMing, but the responsibility and professionalism that comes along with it is something that keeps me from pursuing that path. I have run campaigns for many years, but I think the game would become a lot less enjoyable (for me personally) if I had the weight of finances hanging over my head. I think it can work for a lot of people and I may even be a player in a pay-to-play game someday; but I do not ever see myself running one.

[@Whitecat-xx7rr]

I DM in a club regularly. Players pay the club, DMs get part of the payment. The only thing I don't like, that you get more money for large tables, and so does the club. So we are encouraged to have 6-7 people at the table.

[@creepybatgirl]

I’m currently DM’ing for the first time and we’re still on the ‘Bring Snacks’ system, but one of my players also gifted me one of the core books, another prints what I need free of cost, so I feel very lucky, but would love to try and make a buck off of it some day.

[@Oriansenshi]

One of my players sent me a link to that website and said they thought I could be a paid gm. I was flattered but terrified. I was worried that becoming a paid gm would ruin gaming for me. I am struggling for money so that looks more and more tempting every day.

[@wayneslater5531]

Try running one-shots for a small fee. It's a good way to know if you like it or not.

[@rb3537]

I don’t have a problem paying for a good DM. However when there’s a financial incentive involved, there will be corruption from some. I was in a game where the DM had us got through 12 encounters to get through a forest, when the book called for only 6. So he doubled the encounters and extend the game by 3 weeks. When I found out that he had did that, I dropped him.

[@Marcus-ki1en]

I think the genesis of paid GMs are the fees we all paid attending Cons back in the days gone by. Certain GMs developed a reputation and their tables would max out year after year. The spirit of the game is friends around a table, but not everyone has access to this model. The idea of the people around the table being from around the globe is a cool aspect technology has enabled.

[@L337P1R4735]

This was a very well reasoned and produced video. Great job

[@BillAllanWorld]

Excellent video Luke. You did a great job touching on all of the major points. As a paid GM with over 45 years of experience, my time is valuable. When Patrons or other players pay for my time, they are getting much more value than the modest price I charge. They are getting years of my work in theatre, film, and music. They're getting customized experiences that react to the characters they made and their party's motivation for adventuring. In short, they are paying to be in an awesome game, not a mediocre game.

[@MaestroOblidemon]

I was a paid DM for half a year recently, and with the money I maintained a small space with a cozy decoration and good ambience close to the center of my city. Getting paid allowed me to spend a lot of time prepping stuff for more than 3 games a week, teaching noobs and tailoring stories to their characters. It grew into a pretty good TTRPG community and even though I had to leave the place because it became too expensive to rent, it was an awesome experience and I still dm for 2 groups. If you're a really dedicated DM you deserve to be paid, be it with money, food or gifts.

[@nikaweres]

I decided to join a paid campaign (online) over 2 years ago because I had nobody to play with and this DM welcomed noobs. And we are still playing in the same group, nobody left since I joined, everybody shows up and everybody is serious about it. Now that I also DM for my friends I really see the amount of work he puts and I appreciate him even more. Worth every penny.

[@xilch0]

I ran two tables for an LGS every other Saturday for years. Both were games the players would attend via paying the store a monthly sub. We had rotating GMs with different settings and would let considering members see the list of games and meet with the GM of that game before they joined. Facilitating the groups compatibility seemed to be a personal satisfaction for the store owner. He would also listen to us GMs about what sort of players we think would make good additions to our stories. It wasn't a lot of money, but it also wasn't intended to be a primary income. The money from GMing really helped me build out my custom terrain. Which really added to that stores gaming experience. While I've since moved and currently do not run any paid games, I've been considering it recently. There's a new games store in town and I think there's opportunity in my town for that sort of service.

[@blairbeck9974]

I've seen alot of people talking about the bias in this video. Personally I would have spent a little more time on the dark side. Such as the discord who run badicly an adventure league type thing where u have to pay to have more than 1 chatacter available, have to pay to level, are able to pay to get magic items and crop like that, cuz most of us paid dms aren't like that.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

I don’t care if someone gets paid for DMing. How does one get to be a paid DM? I’m lucky enough to have 6 GMs in our group, so I don’t have to worry about paying. If you look at conventions you kinda pay to play there.

[@BeyondTheScreenRPG]

Wonderful video man. A lot of good points and arguments, you've put in words some things I felt as I read these ridiculous objections online. I especially resonate with the sentiment of decreased passion when doing this professionally, I felt this too, and I think many professionals experience this.

[@mauriciogastonpirizgonzale5387]

02:00 In my country, a movie ticket to see any standard movie (without that "4D" with seats that move and other things like that) costs about 5 dollars (USD). On that Starplaying website, many charge more than 15/20 dollars to each player. And I wanted to propose a session with a role system that I did not find active... and for a single player that web configured a minimum of 30 dollars as a cost to pay.

[@Aarononautos]

I've played in both paid and unpaid games. Mostly unpaid. I've learned that paid games, which in my experience have all been online, were more consistent in both story and attendance. But I've had good luck with unpaid face-to-face games as well. I think I'd be uneasy about paying for a face-to-face game since it's mostly friendly. But I and others with me pay in other ways. We bring the food. We bring the sodas and beers. Etc. We've even pooled together to get the DM books or maps and so forth. DMs should get compensated. In love from the players for the game, in snacks and treats, and so on. Back in the day, I played a game where we got bonus XP for supplying "plants" to the DM.

[@agemmemnon100]

Hi. Very much enjoyed playing Castles & Crusades with you at Marmalade Dog 26. I was the guy across from you playing the Halfling Rogue wearing the Tito's Vodka Hat. I recognized you but at the time couldn't place where I knew you from. Anyway to the subject, I completely agree with you about paid DM'ng. It certainly has it's ups and downs. One downside as a paying player I experienced is something you didn't mention though. I did pay to play for a while, and while I had a good experience in that the DM was doing a good job, and the adventure was fun, the real downside for me as a player was the constant player turnover each session. Once a week we would get a handful of new players, who were only there for a week. We, (and by that I mean me personally) would have to recap the adventure thus far to the newbies to bring them up to speed, only to have to do this continually every week. It got old fast. I accepted that this was a business and understood the need to fill the roster was a business decision. The real problem came in the difficulty of creating player synergy at the table both from a play standpoint and a role play standpoint. Combined with the book keeping problems my paid group had it became more of a chore than actual fun, so I left but on good terms. This is something that players who are looking for a paid game may want to think about. Expect player turn over. Just because someone paid, doesn't mean they'll keep showing up. DISCLAIMER: It was not STARTPLAYING that I worked with.

[@snooz3d998]

As a forever GM, the way I see it is that it's ok to ask your players to help you pay for the modules/minis/other things. But most of the time I buy an adventure or a rule book because I want it and then ask my players to go along with it. So when I'm the one who took the initative to buy it, I don't ask fo compensation. On top of that, I want to GM because I want to, not because I was paid to. I don't have anything against anyone who gats paid to GM, I just don't think it's for me

[@Cosmic_Empress]

Great video. Good analysis of these topics.

[@EricVanSingel]

Nice shout out to the best place ever to find a game to play in. Startplaying has changed my life, Pro GM here chiming in to say decent vid and Imma just say these comments are so dang positive. Love hearing stories of folks finding community!

[@99zxk]

I'm a pianist. I love playing the piano. I enjoy playing with friends. If you want me to be an accompanist or s soloist in a preforms, it better be paid. If not, you get what you pay for. Why shouldn't DMing be different?

[@Kewryn]

There is one argument AGAINST paid GMing that wasn't addressed and one that I think holds much weight: making the session fun and/or entertaining is not just up to the DM. "Sadly" other players do have an impact on the game; it doesn't matter if you are one of those players that are engaged and love to roleplay; all it takes is one person at the table that has a different approach and there goes the immersion. Further still I found that having a more "friendly" relation with the group helps to just have fun; making DMing a paid service gets in a way of that. Don't get me wrong: I have been pretty much the forever GM myself and I can atest to the fact that most players don't put all that much effort or - if they haven't GMed themselves - have literally NO IDEA how much work and stress the position carries with itself, which in turn can be tiring/annoying/downright infuriating... I was lucky to get a GREAT group at the start of my RPG experience and played with them for years... now that I'm returning to the hobby after a break and end up with more "random participants" my overall feelings are mixed... but still the thought of running a paid game never even crossed my mind ^^'

[@josephpilkus1127]

As a professional board game developer, which encompasses playtesting, editing & proofreading, and design analysis. Sure, the first 18 months, I provided pro bono service to fledgl8ng designers, but then I sought and advertised a payment scheme as my time is exceptionally valuable. As Paul Grogran, a fellow rules editor, aptly commented, "If you do not receive any compensation for your labor others will value it as such." (Paraphrased)

[@Minodrec]

Paid DMing is the next logical step after the global raise in players expectation mostly among some busy 5e players. Many players would rather pay for the ability to play their OC in a taylormade campaign with scheduling taken care of rather than dealing with a strange beginner DM's homebrew and flaky treammates. I can't blame them. Even as a DM I find it increasingly difficult to find good (non flaky) player outside of moderatly paid venue (mostly club membership here in europe). As if some modern players are unable to respect free entertainement and would rather cancel last minute for a party or a video game event. I have no issue with my players having other hobbies. It just that many ppl aren't honest with their implication and asking for money is an easy way to find dedicated players (I hate recruiting for a new campaign). Roleplaying games ask for a some commitment.

[@tsunarikitsune4367]

Flaky sucks. Being able to play every week is desirable. Though the game doesn't have to stop becaus3 a player skipped a session. They could be treated as their character being icly dragged off and separated from the party. In town they just didn't go in and partake.

[@WhatsThePointPicture]

Honestly this is something I've been considering doing. I absolutely love being a DM, but I don't feel like I get to do it enough, and once I finish a scenario and run it once, it's like all that prep I put into it no longer has any use once the game is done with my small circle of friends. I don't see myself ever charging my close personal friends to play with me, but I could see myself using them as the test group and then taking any scenarios I'd like to run for a small profit to an online space.

[@Archonis09]

I'm a GM and I don't want to take money for my games. My games are a hobby, not a job. Yes, sometimes they upset. Yes, I spend disproportionately more time preping for games than the players. But this is my hobby. That's the whole point. I do what I want and how I want, because I like it. I'm not a service provider, no matter how the players see me. If a player sees me as a service provider, then he should go to paid GMs. I play games for my own interest, and I will stop when I no longer like it. If I need extra money, I'd rather take a commission to paint the miniatures. I'm not the best GM in the world, and I'm not going to be, I have no one to compete with and nothing to compete for. I make games that I like for people who like them. I often base my games on unfun things for the mass consumer. I love drama, suspense, tragedy and historical realism. I want to make games about that, not about heroes saving the world. At the same time, I have flaws, and I am not ashamed of this. In my first campaign, I had a GMPC, through which I worked out my childhood psychological trauma associated with the loss of my father. And despite the fact that even then I spent a lot of time preparing games, I don’t think that my players should have paid me for it. I am GM. And this is my hobby. I don't blame other GMs who charge money for games. But I do not want to.

[@laroast8531]

Feelings of me doing all the work and spending all the money to put on games is the number one reason I feel as though I want to quit being a GM from time to time. Though I've never charged for it, I think it would make all the time and money I put into it feel appreciated more. Also motivating the players to show up and bring their A game to the table too.

[@danielmalinen6337]

The defense for why you should pay for playing is that the sessions take up the GM's time, they need to prepare and then use part of their time to master the game. GMs are also experienced and have valuable experience and knowledge of how the game should be played, what its world is like and possibly books, source materials, game board and figures for playing. In addition, creating a campaign and game world requires time and resources from the GM so that the GM can create a functioning campaign that the players can play, but these cause expenses for the GM. For example, printing character sheets with a public library printer costs €0.40 - €2 per printed sheet (in Finland), and even if GM has its own printer, the ink capsules also cost which depends on the price. In addition, it can still be considered that the GM is entitled to receive compensation for allowing you to play in their home or compensation for renting a game space for your group from, for example, a public library, game store or school that are neither cheap nor free because the places in question want their own compensation for the use of those spaces. And those players who feel that they don't have the money to pay for a paid GM can alternatively look for a GM who masters the game for free or you can become a GM yourself or think about some other hobby that fits your wallet better, because the options are not limited to paid GMs.

[@dragonsgreedgaming3500]

Every single word you spoke here is true. Excellent video. Consider this a new sub!

[@johngillan4475]

Very interesting many thanks for your video

[@tizzysawr]

Paid GM here. Being able to charge for games is what allows me to run 8 tables a week, because otherwise there's no way I'd have the stamina for that. Sure I have fun running games, but having to prep for 8 games a week and spending 25ish hours entertaining people per week is a huge thing to ask getting nothing in return. For my players? Being able to get a paid DM has allowed them access to more stable tables, where the GM is dedicated to them having fun (in my case making them laugh, as I veer heavily towards comedy) and getting groups without having to convince their friends to play D&D or try and navigate schedules to find out where others can. It's great when people can play RPGs with home groups, made up of friends, meeting in person and eat or have a few drinks meanwhile. But it's not something everyone can do. Those players are generally the ones that get the most out of a paid GM - and if you have the money, why not?

[@warlocksanctumgames]

Thank you so much for making this video. 🙂

[@MrMackMike]

My concern is that a paid GM has an incentive to suck-up to players and will fudge rolls and do whatever it takes to ensure no character ever dies and the party always wins.

[@Minodrec]

Most players who pay for their game are mature enough to want sore losers out of their game.

[@RobertWF42]

Back in the 80s we played a D&D game DMed by a college guy hired by our parents. Recall he got paid $6 an hour! :-)

[@GutisFive]

I like how you present both sides of the conversation. Honestly, i don't mind the existence of paid games but i wholeheartedly wish it doesn't become the norm in the hobby. I love the "getting together with friends" aspect of the game, paying for it would feel like a cold business transaction for me and kill that feeling. I would prefer many times over offering my home for the game and using the same, or even more, money to buy dinner for everyone for that night.

[@baobhan9094]

So, coming from someone who is 'in' the ancient dragons game. My thought is this, you don't just pay for the service, you pay based on the accessibility of that service and the quality it's providing. Going to a movie, and spending that money, ignoring food and drinks because those are extras (like owning your own dice / books). You're paying 20 dollars for a movie. Why? because that movie is ONLY in cinemas, and difficult to access anywhere else, once its on DvD or netflix, its lost much of its value, so you're also paying for the quality of its presentation on a huge screen, a dark room and comfy chairs and awesome sound quality. As per point 2. If im paying for a DnD game, i 'expect' that game to be held at a higher quality than i could get from the dude i play with down at my local game shop for free. And the expectations are now on the DM to provide that service. I would expect to not have to pay for the resources if i were playing online or to have them provided to me. Additionally, I'd be way more annoyed at a paid DMs sessions falling flat or sucking. because I'm paying to be here. There is an amount of entitlement (within reason) i can bring to a table, if I'm paying for a service. Imo, because I'm no longer just a player, I'm a consumer and a customer, and just like a person buying a product or paying for a service, if that product or service doesn't meet the expectations it espoused to, I'd withhold my money. You'd ask for your money back if you expected to See an NBA game, and instead got a highschool amateur league game instead. A player should be able to ask for their money back, if they had an awful time, or got into arguments with the GM, or were bullied at the table etc. At the end of the day, it's not wrong for a GM to charge their players to play, or ask that players bring the snacks. But, if a DM wants players to pay, they better be ready to accept the added pressure and responsibility of being a service provider in all meanings of the term AS WELL AS the DM. Because that's what you've chosen to be, you're no longer just another player at the table. And to DMs who dont charge, like myself, i do so because I'm not here to charge customers, I'm here to make friends. I don't like being a paid GM because in many ways it puts a barrier between you and your players that prevents out of game relationships. I play DnD to meet people and make friends and build relationships, but, you don't often make friends with people when your relationship is a business one. You can, but it adds a hurdle. Thankfully, in Lukes game we've never had to worry about him not providing a quality game, its fun. I can't speak for the others, but I've certainly enjoyed running Cassim.

[@RobertWF42]

Another potential problem with paid DMs: will they coddle the players to keep them happy, to the point the adventure isn't exciting if the fear of failure or death is gone?

[@HawkBladeThe]

Nah, I've been doing paid games for about three years and my players know that I'm a heavy threat GM. If you do stupid shit, you'll probably be rolling up a new character.

[@RobertWF42]

@@HawkBladeThe Good to hear - suppose in the "Session 0" the DM can make it clear just cuz you're paying me doesn't mean you're off the hook!

[@giudalberto]

One time I've tried to explain to some friends of mine what being a GM is like, what I do, etc. Their response was surprising: they told me something like "this seems like a job", and my straight answer was "yeah, maybe, but I think I've learnt how to fatigue less to the point it's almost nothing and now it's fun"... they told me "but that's exactly how any payed job should ideally work for the great part of people". Maybe I should consider getting payed 😂😂😂

[@ShayzRPG]

*pauses staring at bacon* … … … oh crap. I really want to start online GMing and have been bouncing these ideas/arguments around in my head. Thank You for helping clearing out the ghosts and recommending the site. If you are hiring for your company, let me know! ♡♡♡

[@callumhearne6936]

Before I make my comment, it is fair to mention that I have a great, dedicated group of players, one of whom enjoys DMing almost as much as I do so we alternate campaigns. That's almost certainly where my perspective on paid GMing comes from. It's just so alien to my mindset to charge to DM. I love DMing, and my players contribute just as much to the fun at the table as I do. The whole argument of DMs providing the entertainment rings very hollow to me. It doesn't feel like it's my job to turn up and entertain - we all collaboratively find the fun together. Yeah, I put a little bit of extra time in outside of the session, but that's a choice so that I can bring as much as they do. Equally, as a player my expectation isn't to turn up and be entertained like I would at a movie. It's more like a group of friends hanging out and playing basketball. I have nothing against paid DMing from a moral perspective - if people are willing to pay what on earth is the problem? It just comes from a fundamentally different perspective to my own. I'm so lucky to have the group I have ❤

[@mikegould6590]

Okay, as a DM, I avoid paid games for one reason. Entitlement. I'm sure the vast majority of players aren't demanding they "win D&D" or cry out "But what am I paying you for?", but there are some who will. And I'm not in the business of dealing with "I demand to speak to the manager" types. Pay me in snacks, or by engagement, or by helping, or setting up/cleaning up, or providing minis for the table. That way you're contributing to the effort and the group, not to my pocketbook.

[@archivis]

I have never paid for a Dungeon and Dragons game. I have paid for a Tunnels and Trolls game from the systems author. Which was awesome it lasted for ten or so months, before it was cancelled by the gm because he didn't the time because he wanted the time to wrtghe a new version of his system. which ended up being great. :) I think he charged $20 a month. I am living on disbility in the US. could not afford your fees.

[@angiep2229]

Okay, first of all, I'm a huge proponent of paid games. I've been having a problem recently, though. The DM of the first paid game I joined doesn't charge very much at all, and he's far and away the best DM I've ever had. When I've gone looking for an additional game to join, I've found everyone seems to charge more than him. And they're nowhere near as good as he is. My favorite DM is an amazing storyteller, uses people's backstories, encourages role-play, creates really fun NPCs for us, knows his stuff when he runs combats, and sometimes is a borderline therapist and conflict mediator. He's freaking amazing. And it seems he's caused my expectations of a paid game to be unreasonably high. I've yet to find any other game that meets those expectations, and I feel like they shouldn't be allowed to charge more than this other much better DM. I've thought about telling him he should charge more, but I am also benefitting for his low cost. He's joked that he's going to start billing us for therapy, but he hasn't done so. I'm also going to add that my biggest hesitation for paying for a game was my desire to be able to befriend the people I play with. And, I've learned since trying it, this is not a barrier to friendship. The people in my original/favorite paid game have become incredibly close friends, and are among my favorite people. Three of them are actually going to be flying out to my state so we can all see the Dungeons and Dragons movie together. But, yeah, I wonder if maybe there are some DMs charging more than they're really worth... sorry not sorry.

[@---jx4vh]

More looks like he is underpaid.

[@chrizzlybear5565]

"Is it wrong for companies like Paizo to charge for their games?" is a somewhat bad example as all of the rules are available online for free completely endorsed by Paizo. Paying for the books or PDFs mostly means paying for artwork and lore.

[@scatz4994]

"it can be challenging" is such an understatement. I have the utmost respect to game masters who have such great games. sure, every game master is different and I've come across different types of game masters, but still i have this respect for those who have prepared such great stories and such great improv skills. learning how to dm myself, it is no joke. i'm usually confident in my research and preparation skills, but when i think about starting to DM, i feel like my world is still a bit lackluster (because maybe it is) and i feel like there's just something missing, even if I use the WOTC modules, i feel like im underprepared every time.

[@georgelaiacona111]

Demanding that one deserves the labor of other people for free is far more common than you might imagine.

[@kevindaniel1337]

As to the "Spirit of the Game" argument, following that claim, I should never play with anyone that I'm not already friends with. Meeting new people through the game is forbidden. My players have offered to contribute towards my expenses for our campaign, but for now I'm refusing. If my finances were to change though, I might reach out to them to see if they'd rather I stop collecting new digital content for them, or if they'd prefer to financially contribute.

[@ElwoodShort]

I was not able to play ttrpgs for years [decades], due to not having friends to play with. Online play changed all that, I was able to play fun games with strangers. Now I run paid games [for a relatively modest fee], and get to gm all the time. I get way more commitment from players, and have been able to run ambitious long running campaigns as a result of that long term commitment. [it hasn’t always worked out, a couple of games got abandoned due to drop off, but I learned and moved on.]. Getting paid pushes me to have stimulating sessions every week for every game. I’m also not in a position to afford to pay to play games myself, or have the spare time to run more than one for free. I need the money, and could not justify the time spent, if I was not getting something back. I’d have to use the time to earn money in another way. If you have a gm willing and able to run a free game, you are lucky, not everyone has that.

[@EdVeal]

I really agree with your dark side analysis. I have never paid for or been paid to GM a game. However, a local game store has asked me to run a Savage Worlds game (Deadlands Noir) as a demo of a non D&D game. I jumped at it. However, I have recently discovered that they are charging a minimal fee for those to join us this Sat. night. I am now feeling the pressure to do knock this out of the park.

[@Xplora213]

Hope you’re getting paid… working for free while others get paid is a sure path to resentment.

[@michaelgorham2100]

GMing is both very hard AND not that hard. On the one hand, making things up, plotting and planning, balancing things out, dealing with interplayer stress and dynamics, being practiced to keep a game fun and engaging, and finding time to work on it when you have a busy schedule is a tall order, and can lead to GM burnout rather quickly. It does not help when the system players prefer and want to play in most often is not easy on GMs either. D&D 5e is a bit on the "more difficult than it needs to be for GMs" side of things. Decent system for players, but not the most ideal GMs, particularly those without experience. HOWEVER there is a flip side to this: GMing can be fun, rewarding, and a lot of times GMs make it more complex than it needs to be. The top 3 bits of advice I give to new GMs is: 1) Remember that you have every tool available to your players, plus a dozen or so more that they don't. Players can't stop you from doing things in YOUR game. That said, with great power comes great responsibility. Don't be *that guy* who gives GMs a bad reputation for being antagonistic. 2) Speaking of, your job is NOT to beat your players up. Your job is to provide a fun atmosphere and facilitate a fun game. That also means YOU get to have fun, but NO ONE is allowed to have fun at the expense of others. 3) DO NOT Railroad your players, but ALWAYS Railroad your players. TTRPGs are games that thrive on illusion of choice, and players should always get to choose where they go and what they do. However, if you planned a dungeon delve that is in X location and leads to a boss fight with BBEG Y, but players go to A place instead and want to join forces with evil... let them. Then move the dungeon to location A, and transfer BBEG stats over from your planned boss and tweak it to a good guy who becomes the antagonist for the players instead. With those 3 rules, GMing becomes a lot easier. I have other rules to make GMing an easy task, but that came with experience, and won't work for everyone. GMing isn't "easy," but it can be made "easier" with the right tools and experience.

[@LtBob38]

To me being paid would suck the fun out of it. I love hiking (a free hobby), but when I had a job that involved a lot of hiking I didn't really go hiking for fun. I've even turned down a player who offered to buy me some drywall spackle for terrain building. And I'd rather not turn an escape from work into more work

[@pyrthireas]

I agree on every point. I play rpgs since 1986. Mostly with the same people in the last 20 years. Many of those years, i have been the main DM for most campaigns. Last year, a friend proposed to hire a friend of his that did DMing for a fee. We were sceptical at first but agreed to give it a try. We agreed on a fee of 15 euros per player for 5 hour sessions. We play tabletop, not through internet platforms. We were all positively surprised! DM is putting great effort to make the game enjoyable for everyone, and we talk about the session through the whole week, till the next one we play. We haven't had such fun for years. I agree, there are bad DMs too, and many things can go wrong, but i believe there can be great payed DMing. Actually, we pay for one right now! I understand the concerns some people have, but i usually respond that the free DMing shall be there for ever. Nobody shall force you to pay for DMing if you don't want too.

[@tscoff]

I run a game in a room in a local gaming shop. It costs me $25/week to rent the room. I ask my players to chip in to help with the room rent if they can afford it so that it doesn’t cost me too much to run the game. I don’t require them to pay me to play, and I don’t ask for enough money that I earn a profit. I ask for enough money so that it only costs me $5 to rent the room.

[@xalxika]

This is 100% reasonable! Unless a player offers up a better or free option, this is 100% legit

[@xer0vi]

To promote more people playing my local game store is offering and encouraging GMs to run games there and have the players pay them. The GM will get snacks and drinks for free and discounts on minis or books used in the session. They are trying to encourage more people to GM. I'm honestly considering doing it. Ive technically been DM/GMing since 2018. So I have some experience. But I feel I need a bit more. I think at the start I'll just throw out a tip jar and let the players tip what they feel. Then once I get a groove I may come up with a fair price. They even host a class teaching GMs. It's pretty fun and informative. I want to help support the shop and hosting games at the comic store would be fun. And making some mini money and book money on the side would be welcomed lol.

[@borgy1337]

I'm loving the ease of it. Post-OGL I decided to try out different systems and Startplaying is perfect for that. Even found a Palladium game so I got to dust off my 25-year-old After the Bomb books. I've got 4 weekly games going as a player (different systems) -- this would never be possible otherwise!

[@harrywhiteley89]

My Homegame has an important motto for new people coming in for the first time: "Critical Roll is a 5 star Michelin Restaurant meal, your coming over to the caravan at my house and were getting Pizza ordered in."

[@mandisaw]

Good one 😂

[@alexsledge]

Money is money. Time is worth money. A lot of money. More people wish to play single heroic characters than wish to operate a menagerie. The DM's role is to write and direct a script, and then manage to work in the improvisation and plot arc changes generated by the actors. Yes, it's OK to for DMs to ask for money. Yes it's OK to make money having fun. It's also OK to not pay for non-fun things.

[@darksavior1187]

I am currently running games on Start Playing in PF2E on Foundry and I can tell you, the more games you are running, the more time outside the game you are spending. You are dealing with players making characters, changes to characters, and some showing, some not, week over week. This translates into a ton of time outside the game just with player management and that's before you account for any issues with billing, or maintaining Foundry and its updates, hosting, and particulars. So it can easily be a full time commitment with just running 2 or more games for different groups of players.

[@LightPink]

Another issue is the other player's a paid GM's game. There is a reason they have to pay someone to play and the large table size of paid games makes it more likely someone is there for bad reasons.

[@goliathcleric]

On point 4... there is something refreshing about running a new game system and being a novice again. Well... sort of of a novice but the real point is that it's humbling and helps remind that GMing is a challenge.

[@inversenexarus9152]

I pay to play in multiple games and have been doing so for a few years now. The biggest reason why I seek out Pay to Play games is availability. My job requires me to work during the weekend. Most people want to play TTRPGs during the weekend as that is when they have time off. Meanwhile the days that I am available to play are always Mondays and Tuesdays. Finding GMs that are available and willing to run a game on those days is difficult enough. So I am willing to pay not only to guarantee a weekly spot at a game on a weird day of the week, but also to ensure that the game is fun and entertaining. I've played in free games on Mondays before, and oh boy, that is some RPG Horror stuff.

[@donalddailey2190]

Some people like to DM. As evidenced, lots more people like to play. Few like DMing all the time from my experience. I suspect in almost every group there is some form of payment for playing. In ours, it is rotating the DM role around every 3-4 months. We run different campaigns. The time we spend running is our payment for the time we spend playing. As stated, receiving money changes aspects of what the DM is expected to do. And it is not for everyone, just like paying to play isn't for everyone. Things really rarely work out exactly the way we want. It'd be great to run into 3-6 others who liked the same mix of rp/combat, campaign setting, had the same availability every week, with one or two that loved running in the style I like to play. That has yet to happen, almost 40 years into gaming. Making the best of what is available, accounting for my resources to include time and money, is simply dealing with the fact reality doesn't conform to my exact wishes. I still enjoy playing, and to a lesser extent, running. I have zero issue with paid game masters. It is a great match for a lot of people and lets more people enjoy gaming.

[@AtlasTheTitan117]

How do you feel about the concept of players buying source books to help a Gm? I’ve had players ask to insert a certain character or race in online sessions before that I did not have access to. Obviously I don’t mind the addition but as it is a race in a book I do not have access to in our DnD beyond library is it justified asking for players to contribute. I’ve been DMing a little while now, and generally host a campaign that’s been going over a year on discord and DnD beyond. I love DMing but like you said it can be pricey for us as well especially when new things are wanted to be added.

[@wagz781]

Where there is a need and money, there is a market. People complaining about paid GMs don't understand basic economics. If you want paid gming to go the way of the dodo, then I'm afraid you're going to have to take up the reigns of gming yourself, bud. That being said, $20 per person for about 4 hours of game every week is actually pretty consumer friendly. It's likely going to be below minimum wage for that GM to do a game like that for less than 6 people when factoring in the time during the week they would have to spend actually working on high-quality maps, npcs, statblocks, and so on. Depending on the system anyway. If you're running a more rules-light game you can get away with a lot less work. For those that are interested in the math: 20 dollars per person equates to about 16 after taxes if someone does this as a meaningful proffession. At minimum wage's rate of 7.50/hr per employee, you have effectively payed for 2 hours of your work-time per person with a little left over. At two people, you pay for the session itself. At four, you've paid for the session and about 4 hour's worth of work. If you can prepare for a session in 4 hours, that's great, but if not, six is probably more agreeable for about 8 hours worth of work. That only really leaves you with a profit of about 6 dollars tho. So this is by no means something can do as an actual proffession without increasing the number of games they run, increasing the prices, or running games for large groups. However, at the same time, this is perfectly reasonable as a side-gig for someone that wants to run games but can't get a hold of groups or as a means for groups where no one wants to assume the mantle of Forever GM but they still wish to play. Because at the end of the day... you're still asking your GM to work something like 12 hours for your entertainment. That's a lot of time they could be spending on other things. Especially when they spend all that time for groups that don't appreciate the time and effort it requires to cobble these worlds together. Granted, with the current market, I think the addage: Minimum wage, minimum effort will start to crop up amongst those that actually start gming full-time.