The Ultimate Brake Upgrade: Revamped Hayes 4-piston A4 And T4 Brakes!

[@TheDiablosix6six]

Did you notice that on both brake calipers, the two sides don't actually sit correctly!! Kinda makes them look odd!! Not saying they don't work great but for the price you would think they could make a better looking fit!!

[@MGAWorkouts]

So I bought these brakes after I bent the lever on my new SLX brakes after a slight hit. They stop really well, but I had some issues with them: 1. Not a fan of DOT. 2. Build quality of the caliper was disappointing for the price, the two pieces didn't align well and frankly it looked cheap. 3. I had a realy hard time while removing the screw that holds the brake pads in place, it was super tight and I almost stripped it. 4. Pad standard not same as Shimano, fewer options and higher prices. 5. The worst problem I had with them was that my right lever developed a crack where the bearing of the blade is attached to. The aluminum there is very thin and somehow it cracked without any hit to the brake lever. After that I went with TRP and I'm very happy with my choice.

[@trentvlak]

Lack of pad options is annoying!

[@doncrescas]

Better off just getting those aftermarket levers.

[@marrzie467]

@@doncrescas Which ones?

[@gerardolastiri]

@@MGAWorkouts How would you rate SLX vs Hayes vs TRP? I’m on SLX and sometimes I think about an upgrade but I don’t know if the bucks really make a general difference in all aspects of brakes.

[@FOTB407]

@@gerardolastiriTRP evos are really nice, only gripes with them are they take a while to bed in and the levers are unusually large. However, once they bed in they are so nice. Kind of like shimano but more modulation. I have slx 4 pistons too and like those as well, just not enough modulation. The lever problem can be fixed with some aftermarket levers by Freedomcoast or OAK components. TRP DHR evos with those levers are almost perfect in my opinion Edit: the aftermarket levers are pricey yes, but they are worth it. Not only do they look really cool, they make the brake way more usable. Also, when bleeding TRP’s, after you get done with the bleed, make sure u thoroughly clean out the caliper bleed port with a q tip and/or a twisted up napkin. Get all fluid out of there or it will contaminate your pads. This can be extremely annoying if you don’t know to do it. Make sure the lever bleed screw is closed before you do this. As long as the lever bleed screw is in place, any fluid left in the caliper side bleed port is excess and should be cleaned out. Can’t emphasize enough how important this is. I comment about it anywhere i can

[@jamest2660]

I am running the A4 on one of my bikes. I like the consistency of the lever feel and modulation. I really like the alignment screws on the calipers. Makes it easier to get the rotor/pad spacing dialed in. Fairly easy to bleed as well.

[@LoveMTB]

Thanks fur sharing your positive experience with these brakes

[@jrludwig1]

My wife's bike was supposed to come with SRAM DB8 4 piston brakes, but I was happily surprised that it came with Dominion A4's. The cross hair alignment screws are really nice. I wish all brakes had them.

[@LoveMTB]

Yeah you and me both 🙂

[@trentvlak]

I have a set of T2. The ti bolts for the rotor are a nice touch. Setup is harder because the piston stroke is shorter than Shimano so the pads sit closer to the rotor. I put on 2mm rotors to reduce the chance of them getting bent. One con of the carbon levers is their fragility. I put a chip in one of mine when the wind blew my bike over.

[@L.Mo.04.11]

Im looking on upgrading to A4s coming from Code RSCs. Never had an issue with DOT fluid. And love the fact that I can get one from my autopart store 5mins drive instead of waiting for 2days ordering from amazon.

[@sprungmass]

These are very common here in the Rockies and for a very good reason. The stopping power is excellent and it has some of the lightest lever feel. Just installed a set for someone recently.

[@LoveMTB]

Nice so no arm pump😊

[@AZRob.]

I've had Shimano, and TRP Slate Evo's, and don't like either. The Shimano's have good stopping power, but terrible modulation. The TRP's were weak, and the bite point kept shifting, even after multiple bleeds, I had to constantly adjust the levers. I just switched over to Hayes Dominion's about 2 months ago, and Goodness Gracious Great balls of fire!! They are amazing! I weigh 210 lbs, and they have no problem stopping my fat butt on the trails! The icing on the cake are the modulation, and very light lever pull. I have them set up to use just one finger, and I can lightly feather the brakes to slow myself down with ease. They were expensive, but, I am extremely happy with their performance. I'd say they are probably the best brakes on the market.

[@hardmtnbiker]

You might want to mention the Hayes D series rotors. My friend has the heavy ones on his eBike with 203 rotors. He’s over 300 pounds and his bike is heavy too and he has never had any issues with them.

[@LoveMTB]

Good point! I find that people get pretty passionate about the rotors they like to use so I preferred to stick with what I had in front of you folks

[@hardmtnbiker]

@@LoveMTB the D Series rotors are matched to work better with the Dominions,plus thicker. Personally I keep using Shimano XT’s with Flo Pro 120 levers. The M8120 4 piston calipers are easy to set up and service. The I Spec lever clamps pair with my dropper and shifter. I hate extra clamps on my bars otherwise I might have tried the Hayes. I also really like the Ice Tech rotors too, no squeaking and pretty powerful for 180mm.

[@micktheshaggy3977]

I have the old, mechanical, cable actuated CX Expert disc brakes from Hayes on my cheap gravel bike, paired with the old mechanical Apex brifters. After changing the cable outers to the compressionless KEB-SL from Jagwire, these brakes are quite good, especially with sintered pads. Oh, and I've don a DYI upgrade by drilling and tapping the holes in the caliper mounts to make the Cross Hair Alignment System myself (transforming them to the Pro version, which was significantly more expensive). This system really works, it helps a lot with the alignment. Anybody, who is technically inclined a bit (and has access to drill press and know how to tap a small thread), can do it on any brakes, it's really worth it.

[@LoveMTB]

That’s amazing thanks for sharing😊 where did you find the tiny screws for your little DIY upgrade?

[@micktheshaggy3977]

@@LoveMTB I've just used the M4x6 set screws (flat bottom with 2mm hex key socket). I believe that's exactly the same type that the original Cross Hair Alignment uses.

[@cunning-stunt]

Hayes A$ brake on the front Sram Guide RSC on the back, full day shuttle riding. Got serious muscle pump in my rear brake hand meaning I couldn't use it at all front brake hand went all day without issue. Bought a rear to go on my full suspension and have a set of Jimi Hendrix brakes to go on my hard-tail. Run 200mm TRP thick rotors on both bikes.

[@IvanPrskalo]

I have A4 on one of my my bikes. They are awesome.

[@coquetable]

I have A2s on a trail bike and I love them. They are way more powerful than I need but the lever feel is so nice compared to Shimano or SRAM. The other comments about th quality of the fit and finish of the caliper are accurate, but so far they have 100% fewer leaks than my M7120s 😂

[@LoveMTB]

Thanks for sharing your experience

[@glen3509]

The bronze aluminum brake lever looks so M🤘CH cooler than that boring looking carbon one🤘

[@LoveMTB]

Yeah🤘

[@juanhidalgo7043]

Have review the hope brakes? I am only running shimano xtr brakes and code. And now the sram maven, and the sram maven are powerful. It did take me about 4 full bleeds to get the rear sram maven to work as expected. I do hear the shimano saint brakes used by the pros (saint caliper with xtr handle) are a good choice. I just ordered them and see how they work. The only con to some brakes is not every shop will have part for them which is unfortunate. I do like the hope.

[@barfo281]

Those are proprietary pads, right? You can only use Hayes pads for those brakes?

[@LoveMTB]

That’s correct 👍

[@komoonkh]

These are what pro trials riders use. That speak for itself.

[@LoveMTB]

Exactly 🤘

[@donnovicki9771]

Nice looking and about the same price as XTR 4P.

[@SqBike]

I'd like to see a test of the Shimano Cues u8020/8000 to see how they performI'd like to see a test of the Shimano Cues u8020/8000 to see how they perform

[@SubversionGarage]

Those alignment grub screws should be on every brake. Could you measure the thickness of the mounting tab and the diameter of the socket screw? I may have to add my own to my Magura

[@maxj2531]

Coming from slx 4 pistons and got this A4 since 3 month, night and day with 2 dominion rotors (220 front and 200 rear) on my commencal tempo. Love this brakes, yeah now little bit old but still powerfull and so sweet on the lever. A nice brakes with the best of sram and shimano in my opinion !

[@phil5073]

What will happened if I use mineral oil?

[@LoveMTB]

System is not designed around it. Might have leaky seals, rubber that degrades, etc.

[@phil5073]

@@LoveMTB i hope somebody will try it sooner in the name of science. 🤣🤦‍♂️

[@LoveMTB]

@@phil5073 Why mess with a perfectly good and reliable brakeset? :)

[@phil5073]

@@LoveMTB curiosity strikes. 🤣

[@LoveMTB]

@@phil5073 I hear you😎

[@marrzie467]

Can you install the bronze levers on the T4 version?

[@LoveMTB]

I don't see why not, levers seem to be identical otherwise.

[@marrzie467]

@@LoveMTB Awesome. Thanks so much.

[@marrzie467]

@@LoveMTB The place I bought my levers from contacted Hayes and they confirmed all levers will work with the T4’s. You were right.

[@LoveMTB]

@@marrzie467 thanks for confirming

[@claudiovic88]

I'm divided between these and Shimano Saint, anyone can give input between the two?

[@MTB_CRZY]

Get the Shimano brakes. They last longer and there will be parts for them at almost every bike shop in the country (assuming USA)

[@PrzemyslawSliwinski]

And in EU too... BTW, why Saint and not XT? What are the differences between them?

[@tomlarusso606]

First of all: There are no "bad" brakes on the market anymore in my opinion. Why Hayes? For me they are the best i've ridden so far (A4) and i've ridden a few... Easy to set up, top modulation, more than enough power, best reach adjustment (easy to use without tools, not exposed to crack under crash). What's special on the Hayes is you need the least power to stop you. That's a huge point when riding longer, steep trails. They stress your arms and hands less. The Saints are also good brakes but the "feeling" is not on par with the Hayes - at least for me. The only downside is you can't change the pads without removing the caliper or wheel which is not relevant for me cause when i change pads i set it up completely new - this means also alining the caliper. And DOT against Mineral -> Useless discussion. Never had a brake either way where it was an important point. They both work.

[@MTB_CRZY]

@@PrzemyslawSliwinski probably price. There arent many differences between the saints and XT besides the lever ratio. Supposedly the Saints have more stopping power than XT but they use the same pads, rotors and piston size... not sure how that works out in the end as ive only ridden XT brakes and not the Saints.

[@claudiovic88]

@@tomlarusso606 that's exactly what I'm looking for, least amount of brake lever force required, light lever feeling and good modulation. Have some ZEEs on the analog bike, love them. On the E-bike have Sram Code R, good modulation but heavy feeling on the lever

[@josereneducharme142]

Mineral oil brakes have jet lag the winter.

[@fra93ilgrande]

lol true that 😅😂

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I bought a set on ebay and returned them with great prejudice because quality of manufacturing was soooo bad I was sure they were fakes. Yrs later talking to other people apparently they are just that poorly finished... Shame.

[@LoveMTB]

Have you actually tried them or just did not like the look?

[@user-xq5rp9fm1p]

Too bad you didn't actually ride and compare the performance/feel of the brakes. We can all research the specs and features...it's your personal opinion that people actually care about. Lastly, I don't think DOT is really that much of a CON. Yes, it is corrosive, but that just means you need to be careful to not be leaking it all over the place or just have your local shop do the work. In terms of performance, I've never had an issue with heat or wandering bite point on a set of DOT brakes. Which is not the case with mineral oil brakes. And yes, I have used the industry's best mineral oil brakes (XTR, TRP DH EVO, and Trickstuff Maximas) all of which have had wandering bite points and inconsistent perforamce. I would actually much rather have a set of brakes with DOT that I know I can have confidence in the reliability and safety of the brake's performance and not have an accident on the trails--than worry about its corrosive properties because I was careless or lazy doing the bleed procedure...

[@LoveMTB]

I agree too bad I could’t ride them. These brakes come highly recommended by mechanics in places where there is more gravity oriented riding. They hear the stories and get to see how they perform once used and abused.