The ULTIMATE Commander Data Episode | EDHRECast 351 | MTG EDH Magic: the Gathering

[@verselesscooking9416]

Last time I was this early, Cho Manno was still revolutionary

[@Kaxxaa]

Elder Data Highlander

[@EDHRECast]

YESSSSSSS

[@chimera0213]

Also, not to be confused with the Elder Dadjokes Highlander.

[@claytonwilde5750]

Or Elder Dana Highlander

[@GrizzneyGames]

​@@EDHRECast I read that in Joey's voice. 🤣

[@kenshinelite]

These are my favorite episodes. Just pure numbers and dissecting what those might mean.

[@KeganKirby]

Awesome to see snail getting some love. Pains me not to be hipstery about watching him before he "hit it big," but im genuinely glad that he's being recognized as a brilliant deckbuilder

[@xeper9458]

Same here. I been on his slimy trail since the beginning, and knew his content was too high quality to go unnoticed.

[@Srynan]

their whole peergroup is amazing tbh, very fresh mtg content (trinketmage, lily etc.)

[@jwhalliday5308]

So glad to see snail getting some love and acknowledgement.

[@EDHRECast]

We're just trying to get him to come out of his shell.

[@juancamilolemusvallejo5686]

@@EDHRECast hahahah 🤣

[@evolutionXXVII]

I watched that video and then built a Xyris deck. It isn't just powerful, it's fun to play. Highly explosive, and when it wins it closes out quickly so you can move onto the next game. AND it plays great at a $100 budget level, which is a requirement for all my decks.

[@kirbyfanprime]

Hearing that Tatsunari was a "flash in the pan" is disheartening since it was one of my first decks and one of my forever decks, even to the point of splurging on a Keimi token. Bloomburrow and Duskmourn were big shots in the arm for it, with a bunch of new frogs and enchantment support, including our first mono blue enchantress in Entity Tracker. MaRo's cryptic message recently about a potential return to Ikoria even gives me hope for new mutate creatures (though I'm not holding my breath on that one). To counter the Mycotyrant/Slimefoot similarites, I really don't think they can just be swapped one for one, and in fact nonbo with each other imo, as saccing Tyrant's fungi don't trigger Slimefoot, and saccing Saproling tokens won't trigger descend. Future Challenge the Stats suggestion, I suppose?

[@HotLettuceTV]

As a studying Data Analyst and long time lover of the show and commander itself... this title made me so excited to get off work and watch!

[@zacharythorp6095]

This is one of the single best podcasts I've seen in a long while. What a great episode! To address but a single point: once you have the one, two, or three best commanders for a color combination, nothing else really competes.

[@littlemissinsomniac]

13:40 the thing I'm sure will cover is that there is so much competition in each niche space, but also we get so many commanders that I almost feel it's hard for any commander to carve a space long term unless its either broken or does something nobody else is doing.

[@malmasterson]

Looking at that Golos data in the fading rankings just goes to show the thought process that went into the banning. Golos wasn't just the most popular at that time, he was EXTENDING HIS LEAD month after month. At the rate he was going, he would've been the only commander with over 10k decks for the better part of a year.

[@VendiVidiVinci]

As a statistician I really look foward for this video ❤ Edit : After watching the video, I have a few questions: 0) Does Julia has any Social link to follow/congrats for the good work? 1) how did you choose how to define catégories? 2) Did you look at the general trend of commanders? 3) Is the only way to access the figures by patron or can we buy them? Really good job from your data analyst! And writing in an other language is quiet hard😂

[@aelicewildmage]

my little Izzet brain is going feral at this video

[@EDHRECast]

All Izzet brains are big!

[@unseeliedream42]

About Xyris, the Writhing Storm there is another detail about that deck: not only it's fun to play but it's also super cheap and easy to personalize and upgrade or simply refresh. Every set will always have something for the concept of that deck and so it shows a long life chance imho. While the play pattern is kinda lineare, it makes things "fun" becuase there is an inner element of surprise that keeps the game enticing. Also, as an avid Prosper player: why do you think he is fading away? Is that because more interesting and powerful Rakdos were created? Play pattern repetition? Maybe the meme effect "every et has a Prosper card" makes it kinda super upgradable but not ineresting to start with because people maybe gravitate towards newer rakdos? have no idea. I will keep playing him because he's the sexiest tiefling around but I am curious about what do you think about this fade.

[@azazelmorningstar5631]

In my playgroup a lot of people had a Prosper deck and the main thing I noticed is it became a solved deck, just play the most efficient impulse draw and storm off to victory, also as you said it was very repetitive, nowadays there's only one guy who keeps a prosper deck

[@rodrigpimenta]

Great Episode guys!

[@michaelpatalano9884]

Been dying at work, I needed this right now🙏🏽

[@EDHRECast]

Coincidentally Joey almost died editing it.

[@jocas94]

This was pretty hard to follow with the cards plastered above the data. Still pretty insightful! Maybe you should have dropped the overlay and use the bottom left corner for card preview?

[@Gshadewolf14]

Now THIS is how I want to spend my afternoon ^_^

[@EDHRECast]

Happy to help!

[@KirbytronicWouldLiketoBattle]

This was a fun episode! As a stats nerd who is bad at stats and math. Also known as a D&D player. A bunch of interesting things... I think Matt's least favorite card wasn't going to ever make it onto these lists because... well, it's easy to see the kind of deck it builds? If you want to build a theft deck, there's easier ways to do it in its color (Gonti), or more colors (also Gonti, Xanathar, etc.) that don't irritate your opponents and make them quite as miserable. You need to be a specific kind of stax wannabe to really want to jump into it in the first place, but doesn't want to commit to full stax and wants to play with their food. And as someone who has a Muldrotha deck, sometimes we just love our mother too much to move to a more on theme choice. My Muldrotha's here to tell you the same stories (sagas) over. And over. And over. Until you fall asleep. I describe it as Granny from Majora's Mask. (One of the things I've realized about myself lately is one of the ways I like playing magic is "Solitaire, but my opponent is my chess clock," I say, as someone who also built Agrus Kos as an "STOP DURDLING AND ATTACK" deck)

[@Gimpocalypse]

This entire episode tickled all the right parts of my brain. I loved this.

[@AidyJamesMtG]

I wonder how many people dropped Breya for Urza or Mishra from the Brothers' War precons. I planned to "pen-pineapple-apple-pen" both precons into my existing Breya deck, but I ended up liking Mishra so much that he became my #1 commander and I haven't touched Breya since. You lose a colour, but both commanders are a lot more fun and focused.

[@r.w7987]

This podcasts are so good to listen to. So much to learn and nice things to know about magic. Thanks for the entertainment!

[@MirinMeBro]

As a tech dev in a public health data space, I can you first hand the complexities of amassing this amount of data, nevermind converting it from an operation/backend structure into an analytical one, so huge congratulations to the staff at edhrec for this one, and all their other successes 🎉

[@JohnGolden]

Love this episode; more data, more! Has me interested in whether you have any categorical lists by types of commanders. Steal stuff, landfall, spellslinger... And likewise, any ideas about what hasn't been done. Which themes/color identities needs a commander?

[@diegomizaelcalderongonzale4425]

Thank you so much for the time stamp after the intros.

[@MrMalorian]

Ultimate data episode? My body is ready...

[@EDHRECast]

Just remember to stay hydrated.

[@RatzahHarvex]

I have a Hazezon deck built as Sand tribal. Because sand is my favourite creature type

[@EDHRECast]

(Anakin voice) I hate sand.

[@coastTOcoast533]

In a way, it bums me out that all the most powerful, arguably design-mistake cards live at the top of the popularity list for this supposedly casual format.

[@EDHRECast]

Totally get that. It's probably in our nature as Magic players to want to play big powerful things but these are just head and shoulders above the others

[@Scotterbotter331]

This is incredible data, I am sure you have more that could bolster some of the more subtle analyses that you dipped your toes into here. There is a lot to unpack with social dynamic and play patterns - I think the majority of players sort of operate on vibes with these things (consciously or unconsciously), to the point where we are seeing a sort of ecological fitness. Fitness for what? Well, its the kind of gameplay experience people actually want. While this is different from person to person, my perspective is that the overall trend seems to be players getting to "do the thing", which some Spikes like to complain is their least favorite part of the format. I would love to see some similar data for tutors, combos, and fast mana - things that 'the vibes' have generally identified as contributing to unfun play patterns, along with more esoteric things like dominating the game clock, making games too short or too long, complicated board states, having to manage too many dice, etc. LOVE

[@gabrielotero5694]

So excited for the episode! Currently hearing it while I work yay

[@jaya-prime]

Friggin addicted to data-driven episodes like this. Golos is still number one in my heart

[@Myrical32007]

From what I've experienced, people aren't very creative and go with the most popular option from each archetype. This leads to cards like Ur Dragon or Edgar Markov remaining the most popular commanders of their respective archetypes.

[@CthulhuBut2FeetTall]

Really cool episode, genuinely was curious about some of these trends as someone who trolls through the top 100 list occasionally!! I do think it's interesting to see how much "momentum" different commanders have. Also, Go-Shintai's spike almost certainly tied into the Tanuki secret lair drop! Also SNAIL MENTIONED 🐌 AHHHHH, WHAT THE HECK IS A WELL-CONSTRUCTED VIDEO EXPLORING DECK BUILDING PROCESSES THAT CAN IMPROVE YOUR PLAY EXPERIENCE 🗣🗣

[@sheahon1179]

Seeing you guys do FaB stuff is super hype, hopefully we see more of it! 😁

[@ThisIsACommanderChannel]

Ultimate data you say? Count me in.

[@EDHRECast]

Bring snacks! You're gonna need them.

[@Tyndi]

That "hockey players can't read" joke had me cackling. Just because I've taken countless pucks to the head doesn't mean I can't read! Although my reading comprehension has suffered considerably! My missed trigger count from playing Magic is evidence of that.

[@CoasterKid13]

Was looking for a short video to watch... two hours later... Seriously though, thank you for this episode! It hit all the right levels of nerdiness I was looking for when I first got into commander a few months ago. I would LOVE to see more things like this, especially deep dives into curiosities or anomalies in this set of data... things like unexpected outliers or weird trends in the. Great work!

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Yarok falling off definitely tracks for me because I took my deck apart when brenard came out because yarok doesn’t really have a identity other than value so over time it just became less interesting to me

[@littlemissinsomniac]

That's why I took apart my Aesi deck. It was a deck I was known for, but it became repetitive good stuff simic landfall. I've switched over to a Greensleeves deck because I had to figure out a different play style where I don't have a draw engine in the commandzone.

[@gully041]

Mirko dropping so quickly is pretty crazy. A player in my static pod has one, and it gets out of hand very quickly.

[@DustRodg]

Thank you Julia!

[@vasylpark2149]

I maintain that Eminence is not the problem its that you get the ability for free. If you had to pay mana or life for the effect it would be good but not broken.

[@peterd8251]

I built a Xyris Buff Spells deck after watching Salubrious Snail's video and it's been a lot of fun! As someone who usually committed a lot of big permanents to the board at sorcery speed, it was fun learning to play more at instant speed with lower CMC. I'm glad he got a shout out in this video =)

[@thaddeuscole3718]

Love a good data episode! The reason I fell in love with the channel was the data and I had been missing stuff like this

[@arymland01]

I think the "flash in the pan" commanders may also fall into the category of interesting enough to brew and put a deck together online but not quite there when it comes to putting it together in paper. I personally am a huge brewer and I remember brewing lists for a lot of those commanders when they came out or were spoiled but they didn't quite grab me enough to actually build the list in paper so therefore I'm not going to spend time upgrading those lists even though they are still on my Archidekt.

[@ryansmith841]

Wilhelt will never be unseated! *New esper Zombie commanders with bonkers abilities are spoiled*

[@JustABrokenToy]

I like seeing the data in this way, because from an outside perspective I look at "Top [color identity] Commanders" and see a lot of the flash-in-the-pan generals still up there. If a general is too popular, at least in the past few years, I tend to get disinterested pretty quickly. So I may go back and give some of these a try knowing that their initial popularity has fallen off, and that it's the initial hype that secured them a top 5 spot in that color identity.

[@justinwelsh9367]

I bought the kalamax precon when it first came out. Played the deck a few times and then took it apart. Years later I decided to build xyris and found snail's video afterward. A lot of the deck is based around that video and it's now one of my favorite decks.

[@Raymx3]

Would be interesting to see if any flash in the pan commanders return to the top or just see a spike in total built decks after this video!

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I have a Ziatora deck which among my favorites and I get why it was so popular when came out because it was the treasure commander in a way that it’s not anymore and the reason it had staying power for me is because I was doing more fling and big creatures stuff

[@SamySapphyre]

Ahhh I love my Ziatora deck too. Treasures are nice, fling is better!

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Almost 2 hrs! Hype

[@EDHRECast]

We had to take a snack break in the middle of recording.

[@foobarjackson4513]

As a dedicated animar player (since about 2016 I've had at least one Animar deck in my collection) it's definitely a commander that is always "good enough" because of what he does. You're never going to completely wreck a cEDH pod because they understand what animar can do and you get hated out, and at casual tables you're usually archenemy once someone wisens up to the usual combos. He's a stat-check deck, making sure the rest of the pod has proper answers to threats that other decks normally have. I build all of my decks to be especially resilient, but I've seen 100% combo-focused Animar decks fold to appropriately timed hate. So Animar is easy to run and generally he runs himself, but it takes a lot of practice to get the most out of him which i think is why he sits in that awkward spot

[@christospaisiou5128]

I would like to suggest, as a fellow data analyst, why not make an episode for each card type? That would be interesting and extremely educational. As always, an amazing episode 👏 Bravo

[@Blindaltqq]

It's worth noting that Magda (like Kinnan and Tivit) is also cEDH mainstay (consistent top 10 deck now) and her bursts in popularity are related to new sets (the printing of Roaming Throne, for example) but also due to strong tournament results. She's also very cEDH oriented because she has some of that Urza-style 'too strong for casual no matter how you build this' power going on.

[@TheMartinator99]

Prosper has also become fairly expensive

[@My_Grandma]

Although I fast forwarded 80% of the video, I thoroughly enjoyed it 😀

[@alandunn6090]

I actually just built a Tatsunari deck because of how niche it is. Duskmourn really helped fill my list out

[@kristbg]

Madeline Kahn cameo

[@N4chtigall]

Whats important to acknowledge is that cards art also affects their popularity. Zimone and Dina design is great, but the art just sucks. They are just two dorky teenage girls with nothing interesting going on. I know that a lot of people dont really care about it, but for me how the card looks is almost as important as how its designed. If I like design, but I dont like art then its automatically no for me.

[@danaroach29]

I built a Merieke Ri Beret deck a decade plus ago, and while there's a lot of reasons I took it apart, me not liking the art was on the list. I also knew a guy who stopped playing Stonebrow, Krosan Hero because he hated the art.

[@SamySapphyre]

I definitely agree. I LOVE my Zimone and Dina deck. But I can’t stand either arts for the card. I use the new card art for Zimone All-Questioning for my decklist online. Can’t stand it - but still love the deck and I’m really glad I persevered with it 😊

[@LaxusGaming47]

1000%, i only got in period due to the animeified art of Isshin and Raiyuu.

[@nathones]

Same. I would totally play the new Judith if it had the art of the old one

[@scaredycat3146]

It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing Feather, the Redeemed. I love the character but the face of the original version is just cursed.

[@perrinsilveira6759]

It might already be available somehow, but having a single database/file with all commanders and their monthly popularity would be fun to play with, as you can get arbitrarily precise with your searching. I definitely have an interest of the cold initial reception, but growing as more cards fit their niche commanders.

[@tanelorn6102]

Tivit's and Bonder Prodigys shift in Cedh was a consequence of the fast mana bans. Unless your name is Godo, you probably don't get to cost more than 2 or 3 mana and still see play. Some months in the bans seem to have had a measurable impact on meta and format diversity.

[@mightyone3737]

After watching the recent Corrections episodes I now here 'Sam and Frodo' as 'Salmon Frodo', a different character entirely.

[@mfsoab]

Not seeing basically any of my commanders on these kind of lists is a nice reassurance that I'm still on the right track with my deckbuilding philosophy and taste 🙃 And btw: Jodah, the Unifier is indeed just a broken card. Got so annoyed by these decks on Arena once, that I actualy built one myself when I pulled him in paper, just to have a reality check if he's really that busted. Turns out, just throwing a random pile of legendaries from the collection together with him and without giving it much thought is enough to run everyone over. Stomped my high power casual pod (Urza, Edgar Markov and alike) twice in a row with him and disassembled the deck because it was already getting boring.

[@samarkito]

"Maybe they'll stop putting ward on everything." Enter Koma, World-Eater (which also can't be countered).

[@EDZ1LLA]

On the "Comeback Kings" section The First Sliver didn't get reprinted in a set but did get a Secret Lair printing in October 2023 which is also when it received its second wind as well. Maybe even the third resurgence being when people got their cards? But I don't remember the delivery timescales of that secret lair in all honesty so may be completely off base with that one.

[@imaginarymatter]

I guess it's fitting Jorn ultimately got left out in the Cold. In all seriousness though he is an interesting Commander but he's not a snow deck which is where I think the disconnect is between him and players. Most snow permanents don't really benefit from getting untapped by his ability. The majority of them are creatures and all Jorn does is essentially giving them pseudo vigilance (is anyone ever excited about a Commander that just gives your creatures vigilance?). The one exception is snow lands because the untap ability essentially doubles their mana output per turn cycle -- which is insane! That's why he isn't a snow deck -- he's a ramp deck that requires a near all snow land mana base. And that's the exciting way to build him. As long as Jorn can attack every turn you can generate absurd amounts of mana with his attack trigger. He's also a fringe example of a multicolor deck where Command Tower isn't optimal because it's not a snow land and thus doesn't benefit from the untap trigger a humble snow basic can receive.

[@EDHRECast]

(Dana here) I'm just putting the finishing touches on a Jorn deck now.

[@TheMartinator99]

I think what stopped me from building him is that optimizing him always seemed to involve stax and i didnt wanna subject people to "casual" winter orb and stasis

[@Sparrow141420]

I love this episode, all about those graphs. Hahaha, someone should have made a "Look at this grrraaaph" joke. No but seriously love this. Also curious about a graph of "Urtet, Remnant of Memnarch" type kindred commanders, in the same vein as "Go-Shintai of Life's Origin" and other best in class commanders. Just things like, who stuck around and why, who dropped off first and why. There could be so many whole episodes pulling from a data set like this and using these graphs.

[@jameswalterclark3696]

I’m still watching the vid, but I’m confronted with a thought: are there any commanders that have a uniquely broad card pool in terms of theme and synergy? Maybe not the most powerful ones, but commanders which provoke very different approaches to building the deck. Anyway, back to the vid!

[@Cactus_Evergreen]

Salubrious Snail mention!!!

[@EDHRECast]

We're hot on his trail.

[@Taranasaurus1]

As a Chicagoan, I take offense to Dana's joke. Yes the Blackhawks are bad, but they're not historically, all-time worst season ever bad. That's the white sox

[@willvmurdaugh]

Miirym is ancient and works in a massive library. No one will ever convince me that her name isn't meant to be pronounced like Miriam as if she we are some old librarian.

[@athko]

id love to see these sorts of stats but limited to pre-2011 commanders, to see how legends designed b4 wotc started designing for edh have stuck around / risen / fallen

[@JanklordEmperor]

All hail Salubrious Snail!

[@EDHRECast]

All others pale next to Salubrious Snail.

[@SuperThomasShaw]

Finally doing a star trek universes beyond!? Count me in!

[@SuperThomasShaw]

Never mind

[@HatJax]

Question: is the historical data featured in this video something that is visible within the edhrec site? Or just available to yall?

[@EDHRECast]

We don't publish any data outside the past 2 years. This is in order to keep the data current and the trends relevant to the users.

[@jollygreenjackson5787]

Really don’t understand the mycotyrant to slimefoot change, they’re completely different decks. Mycotyrant is supposed to completely ignore the whole saproling/fungus synergies, it’s just a mill deck that gives you tokens you use for other purposes

[@styfen]

Some of the more expensive commanders are falling off as a result of the bans. Those bans were healthy for EDH overall, but expensive commanders like Myrkul are less engaging now they turn up 2+ turns later

[@frogv2745]

Was so tempted to turn mycotyrant into mothman so i'm so not surprised by people saying that they turned their mycotyrant into slimefoot God I hope Ketramosa is another category c flash in the pan commander, the play pattern and the deckbuilding looks *miserable* Ahahah I was tempted to build Judith but she genuinely looks so unfun for opponents

[@nikszot5654]

Aye yo! Why kick the Blackhawks while they are down! Way uncalled for haha I listen to you guys to get away from my sports podcast 😂

[@robertwilbrand3441]

Love me some ggplot 😃

[@Controlqueen31]

Prosper is not built that much not because there is a better version of him in those colors. There isn't. But in Gruul or Temur there are other options that may explain why he isn't built as much. Also, Treasure centered decks have more options now.

[@kylewade6882]

Still love my Hylda deck.

[@The_Chimney_Imp]

Love to see that the vast majority of my decks have commanders that nobody gives a s**t about

[@imanujakku]

I think some prosper players switched to ob nix or Faldorn.

[@aaronwindham6065]

I like playing against toxirill but I perfer more controlling games, with actual interaction. I'm not sure why so many people don't like them

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

*raises hand* Hey uh 5 Color Dragon Player here. I hate to tell you they did print something that is more powerful than Ur-Dragon in the command zone. Tiamat is straight busted.

[@filiphorvath8932]

Matt hates Toxrill but has a Koma deck?

[@kirbyfanprime]

Koma just builds your board, Toxrill passively destroys everyone else's boards with very few ways to fix apart from removing it. The plethora of cheap, exile based destruction and board wipes, in theory, make Koma more manageable, as well.

[@SuperPengas]

I find that snail is the face of what I think is a mtg KZbin Renaissance, channels like his are so plentiful and high quality content is everywhere. Shout out specifically to: the trinket mage. 3/3 elk, rebel lily, deck driver, toggos rock, based deck department, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few

[@LaxusGaming47]

Yuriko is so cool but doesnt have to be cedh. I dont really have another way to play a heavy ninja count, with one of the few good waifu commanders at that

[@faeriegirl]

Gonna watch this asap! So no clue if y’all address this already: but why manual Excel sheets and not use something like playgroup for more automated tracking?

[@trichogaster1183]

no way they made a star trek secret lai... oh.

[@dudeanonymous]

I built gonti when it came out, but things that take your opponents stuff gets targeted by people when it isn't even the threat at the table because they want to use their cards. And the gameplay was awful.

[@hatsudopia5085]

Meren might be going down because it is too good in causal and not very good in competitive

[@Dragon_Fyre]

Great video, but an hour and forty minutes of stats without challenging them; Something about that feels wrong 😅

[@cameronmoerer6244]

I really think we need to normalize playing commanders like Sheoldred more. People need to learn how to play magic more than just, "I get to hide in my safe space and spend 5-6 turns doing whatever I want with no punishment". What's the difference between her and another commander who can be a part of a combo or can generate huge value? Either way it's moving you towards winning the game. If no one plays a more "aggressive" commander, then the game is just going to end with someone doing some big thing and everyone dies anyways. When you hold up that spell because you don't want to be mean, but then the next person in turn order just wins the game, was it really worth not playing it?

[@andrewpeli9019]

Some strategies draw a lot of hate. If you are stealing stuff from opponents, people know that once you start doing your thing, they can’t win. So you’re going to get a lot of hate. If your deck is a bit slow to setup, you’re going to get knocked out of games before you get to do the thing. A lot of commanders suffer from being to slow early while drawing too much hate.

[@RenzZlax]

Im really hoping for either 2 color backgrounds or 2 color background creatures so that we can get the customizability of partner without the chance of getting to pretty much 5 color good stuff. I really want a cool temur deck but all the current commanders dont feel right to me

[@Russian_engineer_bmstu]

Lol Just play intet

[@midwestindigo1397]

Bedard can't carry ALL of the Chicago Blackhawks okay. It's not their fault they suck (it is).

[@elmothejunkie]

Holy advertisements Joey. I can barely hear you thru the interruptions

[@raonair]

I hate Ghyrson Starn so much. I don't mind you burning ME for 3 a whole lot, but leave my board ALONE

[@12jacobmar]

Ermmm I think I'm wiwwy starting to like dada and numburs and gwaphs ☝️🤓

[@pauldyson8098]

First!