The Ultimate Paddle Reviews Revealed

[@johncincolapickleball]

What paddle do you want to see reviewed?

[@bobs1644]

Slk omega max

[@AustinPickleballUpdate]

CRBN X series, and the Gen3 Joolas.

[@123BV8]

Paddletek ALW-C along with PIKKL Hurricane Pro and Koop’s Paddletek EQS?

[@Zionvu]

axion control pk from drop shot

[@AustinPickleballUpdate]

This is an awesome, awesome way to standardized paddle reviews. Can't wait to see the paddle reviews from Paddle Labs!

[@johncincolapickleball]

thank you

[@JordanSchaeffer]

You’ve clearly put a lot of thought into this but I think there are a couple of things you could do to make this even better. I love that you are firing the ball at a stationary paddle as this power measurement won’t factor in the weight of the paddle. You should also add a lower speed power measurement (what many people call ‘pop’) as it seems that some paddle’s power output is not linear with the power input. I don’t know exactly how to do a quantitative measurement of sweet spot but twist wait is NOT the same thing. It’s definitely related, but the weight distribution of the paddle is only one factor that affects the sweet spot. It would be a good indicator only if every paddle manufacturer used the same core and frame design/manufacturing techniques. With so many different modern core technologies and designs, the sweet spot could vary greatly between two paddles that have identical twist weights.

[@KevinThomasAdventures]

I was hoping for an off-center strike test with a variance rating as the sweet spot metric. Perhaps a 4 shot diamond pattern strike test appx 2-3in from center paddle.

[@JordanSchaeffer]

That’s a pretty good idea

[@McLovin1759]

I like the concept. Keep in mind that most players that are looking for their first or second paddle are

[@johncincolapickleball]

Thanks, this is great info that I'll take into account!

[@123BV8]

@@johncincolapickleball As you explained this is a paddle nerd post, we want this, we need this, we are going through 6-10 paddles a year!

[@123BV8]

When!? Let’s get this started, weekly!

[@johncincolapickleball]

first vid is already up! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWmaZ36wrrOfipYsi=PlS9zX3hMd02APEp

[@123BV8]

@@johncincolapickleball Nice let’s go weekly!

[@RevolutionTutors]

Generally a fan of your instructional stuff. I don’t get making this video without at least referencing the work picklballstudio and jonkew have already done. Pickleball studio already has an extensive spreadsheet detailing a lot of the metrics you reference and John presents similar data in his reviews. Am I missing something? How does this add to or go beyond their work?

[@123BV8]

Better and more information, a new look and thought on paddle reviews, always looking for more information and never enough!

[@luke9822]

Will it be difficult to be transparent and unbiased with sponsorship from a paddle brand (Selkirk)? DK's Foeward brand getting some love in this video. Nice.

[@joshuaandashleyreed7360]

I agree with that thought. Selkirk makes nice paddles overall but we need truths not paid ads.

[@madrum]

Suggestion: use a background similar to Mark Rober’s 40mph speed blanket to accurately measure speed and, well, it looks cool too. Thanks!

[@hruntingson]

Better yet, do a colab with Mark Rober!

[@WilliamBrownGuitar]

I would like to see how the paddles change after certain intervals (hours) of use. The spin might be dramatically different, for example, and this would be a significant factor is determining the paddle's value. Another factor would be consistency from paddle to paddle within the same model. If 3 of any given model are all exactly the same or within a reasonable degree of tolerance, that says something.

[@gheemony]

Can you please measure launch angle as well? Should be easy with your set up. I think that will help distinguish between different thicknesses of the same paddle. Also, can you measure the location of the sweetspot? Should be able to shoot the ball at the paddle and find the point of maximum energy transfer. Thanks!

[@aregee7121]

If "control is the inverse of the power ratio score", that means like a see-saw, gaining one means losing the other?

[@hruntingson]

Right. It sounds arbitrary. I think control comes from experience, predicable reflection(somewhat connected to experience) and dwell time. You could get used to a large variety of paddle attributes, but learning can be helped with “soft” paddles or ones with a longer dwell time 1)allowing you time to act upon the ball’s direction 2)slowing down the impact allowing you time to feel your position and see the outcome. Hopefully your brain put the two together and learns ball goes here, move like this and ball goes where expected. I think some sort of angle of reflection and dwell time test would better allow us to compare or find paddles similar or different to what we have used.

[@jatseng0000]

That’s what I thought, too. If it’s inversely related, that means you can’t have both power and control on the same paddle? Seems like control will have to be redefined or tested in other metrics.

[@danskiludvik8358]

yeah, I'm struggling with this one as well. While it makes some sense that the faster it comes off the face the harder it will be to "control" the soft game, however, as technology is applied over the next few generations of paddles, we might come across something akin to the titanium breakthrough in golf drivers, whereby we were given more power, AND more forgiveness from off-center hits. Probably, before we can measure "control", we'd first need to define it.

[@jatseng0000]

I feel like control is quite hard to define. For example, I really want to like the Pursuit Pro, but the off-center shots during firefights are absolutely punishing, taking away much of my ability to direct the shot, but at the same time, the Hurache-X Control is much more forgiving even if I hit close to the edge when diving for a ball. Also, the Pursuit Pro feels somewhat soft and hollow versus the Hurache which is much more solid and responsive. While "touch" or "feel" of the paddle is subjective, as everyone has their preference, it seems like sweet spot is the closest to defining control than anything else, in my opinion. Changing the subject a bit, I feel like power and pop need to be defined separately. Right now, his test is more a deflection test, which is pop defined by the general paddle community. I love the use of ball machine because that's what I'd use. But power is harder as it requires a consistent, reproducible swing in a machine. Nonetheless, in conclusion, I think we can agree, the "feel" of a paddle is a matter of taste but sweetspot can be quantified, and power and pop are 2 different metrics.

[@2musiclover534]

@@jatseng0000 The new Joola Gen3s have increased BOTH power and control simultaneously. Someone I know played 5 hours straight with every one of the Gen 3 model and marveled at the results. So it is not an inverse relationship between power and control.

[@ssjdoob]

It’s like choosing your cart in Mario Kart!

[@bobs1644]

Where can we see the results of your testing?

[@johncincolapickleball]

Stay tuned to this series. Will be uploading soon.

[@rickdoerner7750]

Is Paddle Labs still going to be a thing?

[@johncincolapickleball]

yes here is the first review! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWmaZ36wrrOfipYsi=2NS0-dQiY8sZs_GN

[@lutherbonow5047]

I don't agree with your power metric. Power is the ball speed you can generate from a hard swing. The velocity coming off a paddle from a ball shot at it is "pop".

[@hruntingson]

From a physics standpoint point it is relative speed to each other before and after collision. The way we have been using pop has had at least two definitions. Their protocol could use a little more description. For instance lets say a “powerful” serve the ball has zero speed and the paddle does. So here we would reverse what item(mass) has velocity and fire the ball at the velocity the paddle would be moving at and observe the collision. If it were a serve return the you would have ball velocity and paddle velocity added then in this simulation the ball would be traveling at the sum. I hope they picked the velocity well. The other definition used for pop is a short dwell time, but also closer to what your refer to as pop is actually short dwell time and high rebound velocity. I’ve wanted to do similar tests,but cant afford the investment.

[@kimleith1378]

They use a robotic "swing" machine for golf club testing. They must be very expensive though. Plus the golf ball is on a tee.

[@pcleong123]

The balls delivered out of the machine can't be consistent. However, all the results are a good guide.

[@johncincolapickleball]

It’s a ratio of incoming ball speed divided by outgoing speed measured by frame rate and time. If the ball machine delivers 2 mph slower or faster we’ll know that in our calculations and the ratio of incoming/outgoing still give an accurate result.

[@josegallegosdds]

I think you are missing one BIG component. That is swing weight which generates paddle head speed and also the upper or lower swing direction, which affects spin immensely. These variables are very hard to measure because they vary so much from person to person. All of your tests are static.

[@aregee7121]

With the very latest paddles using terms as: rebound, diving board effect, rubber layer under carbon layer, etc., will the term "coefficient of restitution" become important. Hopefully pickleball will not turn into a ground-to-air missile game

[@hruntingson]

If you saw the Selkirk paddle testing video, coefficient of restitution was used in describing the upcoming approval test. So, yes it will become an important term.

[@Aaron-mn2ro]

a lot of margins for error with this testing. Seeing the test bench move for example every time a ball is shot at the paddle for the power test. Saying the ball machine is "pretty consistent" doesn't give me much confidence. need to have marked backgrounds so that you can accurately track speed, angle, distance, etc. I could go on. Good idea, but needs to be much more professional to really matter in the long term

[@vanadyan1674]

Yep, this is a solid idea, but it's time to get some real engineers involved if you are going to do it properly.

[@johncincolapickleball]

The ball machine doesn’t have to be completely consistent. We are using a 960fps camera and calculating exact incoming ball speed based on frames per second and an exact distance measured from ball machine to paddle. The power measurement will then be a ratio of incoming speed and outgoing speed.

[@hruntingson]

Like Mythbusters there should be a marked and measured background. Some speed guns synched on camera would be great too!