The Ultimate Pockethole Joinery Test!!!

After seeing jacks vid I had to do a test of my own. I'd say it's a success

[@chadburke852]

Excellent vid. Can't believe all the whining about pocket holes. I love traditional joinery but most of those who appreciate it are woodworkers themselves so good luck selling product to them. P.H.'s are fast and entirely strong enough for 90% of joints.

[@johnny1980ns]

Nice test. You're videos and inventions are some of the most interesting, keep them coming!

[@skip0110]

Build 2 and then put the car up on them and rock it back and forth. The screws will pull out in no time. That's the kind of load a chair gets when you rock back in it, or the kind of load a shelf gets when it racks.

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

skip0110 if I put a few simple braces pocket screwed in I'll bet it wouldn't come apart

[@cadguyfrompti]

Pretty strong indeed. They are certainly strong enough for 90% of the woodworking projects most of us build anyways.

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

cadguyfrompti I know 90% or more of my projects are pocket screwed together.

[@dtfcd]

Well... that was stronger than I was expecting. Also... thanks for the tip with the sheetrock screws.... I hadn't ever tried them because I figured counter sync type screws would have a tendency to pull through the pocket hole. I'll give it a shot.

[@CosmasBauer]

The force is applied straight down and slowly. A best case cenario. And if you think about it it is not even all that much. The pocket holes failing this test would proof them completely useless. I don't say they are. Most furnniture does undergo these kind of stresses only.

[@lennyf1957]

The real test would be to make two ramps, drive your vehicle up on them and get under your van to change the oil.

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

Lenny F I'm not that brave lol.

[@CMRWoodworks]

That would be a tad bit scary!

[@chrisjohnson6482]

+Lenny F hahaha. Really though you would use this in place of a jack, but not in place of jack stands, which you should always use

[@lennyf1957]

+Chris, & David, I guess you missed my use of the word “test”.

[@MariusHornberger]

Hmm, this doesn't exactly proof, that pocket holes are strong, This proofs, that screws are strong. Screws or even nails from the side would also hold a car in this configuration. Apply force from a different angel or another kind of force and you will get different results.

[@peterstewart9376]

prove it

[@uslanja]

Impressive! Certainly strong enough for anything in the home.

[@aqwood6430]

Great video! For joining plywood edge-to-edge pocket holes seem strong but I really wouldn't use them to hold table rails to the legs because there's less surface and you can't use 11 screws for each joint.

[@jeffharmed1616]

Strong and definitely the quickest - thanks for that.

[@gregaltenhofel7326]

Came back to watch this again and to let you know I really miss your video's.

[@tetsubo57]

No one send this to Matt Wandel...

[@jlyonm]

tetsubo57 When I first watched Matthias Wandel's video showing that pocket hole joinery wasn't as strong as mortise and tenon joinery I thought, "Yes, but are the forces you are applying anywhere near the forces one would see in typical pocket hole joinery usage?" The other question I have is how pocket hole joinery is improved by an increase in the number of screws being used. Now, being human, and having bought a Kreg jig, I of course would feel a little foolish if it turns out that the whole system is crap, so I kind of want to defend it. But, I also do not want to be of unwavering opinion in the face of contrary evidence. In the end, I think we can all agree that there are situations where pocket hole joinery can and cannot be used; I certainly wouldn't want to build a skyscraper with it.

[@tetsubo57]

J.L.M. I don't own a pocket hole joinery system. Yet. But I plan on buying one at some point. Why? Because for the types of joinery I will be doing, it should meet all of my needs, is fairly affordable and takes up a small footprint. I don't have the space or skill that Wandel does.

[@TreeborgCNC]

tetsubo57 Mathias test was for cantilevered shelves. And he was actually making a real world comparison with different joinery technologies. I think the Wooden Tool Man 's test completely non scientific. Would you put dozens and dozens of screws and make a ramp in a real world application?

[@tetsubo57]

Treeborg If pocket screws where my only option, yes.

[@TreeborgCNC]

I think you are mixing my own thoughts with Mathias experiment. I agree with you. Pocketholes have their place and are actually very useful. I disagree with this "proof" on this video since a ramp is very different than a 90o butt joint. And it doesn't reflect a real world application.

[@jimhester2004]

Very interesting video. I've shared it with family and friends, and they all liked it. The biggest reason I haven't been using drywall screws is that I have a problem with stripping the heads. I think that my phillips bits are probably inferior. What kind of bits do you use? And is that a regular barreled bit extension on your drill? Thanks.

[@spidifilerijder]

22 screws on 60cm?.... Then you can prove everything.

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

Bob Craen it's 33" long

[@spidifilerijder]

Wooden Tool Man Okay, 83,82cm /11 = each 7.62cm a screw on each side.... You can hardly put more screws in it. :-)

[@PHILPAF]

I would love to see him flip the ramp so the screw holes turn up...

[@Mopardude]

This doesn't surprise me. I have a bench in my garage that I made with pocket holes that I have had v8 engines on and I didn't use nearly the number of screws for that as you did for that ramp! LOL

[@n8guy]

Good to see you back!

[@RonieVarjao]

Very good. Thank you so much. Fan from Brazil. ;)

[@marko3296]

There are different kind of forces in play. That was the one affecting it the least. Its like somebody lying on a bed of nails, each nail spreads its forse across the body contacting it. Flip the piece 90 deg and It would fall apart

[@JayBates]

marko3296 Why would you test the strength of something in a manner in which it was not designed for? That's like saying turn your dining table on it's side and see how well those legs stay on. The ramp wasn't designed to be on it's side.

[@sbichet31]

Jay Bates Sure, but to do so, you should now the weakness of the packet hole mechanisum and take into account in your design. A relevant test exist also to demonstrate that. Thanks to Matthias for that.

[@PHILPAF]

Jay Bates But a tiny angular force would break it in a fraction of a second. Would you climb under and work on the car?

[@9876543210goodbye]

TheGreatDane3 I certainly would not get under a car and work while on this ramp but, I do believe the video debunked the silly idea that pocket holes are an insecure method of joinery.

[@PHILPAF]

***** Insecure is a floating term. I would sirtainly feel insecure under that truck. But as a form of joinery, I might use it for temporary jigs or so, but NEVER for furniture that should last more that a year or two

[@BackyardWoodworking]

Who thinks 3/4" ply isn't strong. LOL double that up and you have a real strong set of ramps .

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

Backyard Woodworking A fast set too!!!!

[@Bikeeast]

Surprised me to see the NS license plate! Didn't realize you lived here.

[@dlwatib]

Yeah, if you use enough of them in the right configuration you can even get nails to hold up a car. But you can never disprove Matthias's tests showing that real joinery is stronger. Pocketholes are clearly a compromise of strength for convenience. If you really want a ramp strong enough you can trust to work on a car, you'll need better joinery than that.

[@TomHamby1970]

Shear Strength is defined as the maximum load typically applied normal to a fastener’s axis that can be supported prior to fracture. Single shear is load applied in one plane that would result in the fastener being cut into two pieces. That's all this test has addressed. Pocket holes are not joinery nor are they an acceptable option.

[@HBSuccess]

This proves that a drywall screw can withstand 100lb in shear. That's 500 lb per wheel supported by 4-5 screws at any one time. Proves nothing about the strength of pocket hole joinery

[@mikegager]

been wondering where youve been!

[@idleford]

An even more ultimate test would be to see how few of pocket holes can you use both it breaks.

[@NicoSmets]

This test doenst really prove that pocket holes are strong. It all depends on how you use your application; Here, all the screws are loaded under shear stress, which expectedly performs well. You can easily estimate the shear stress per screw and be within acceptable boundaries. However, if you should put stress in the direction of the screw pulling it out, the results will be a lot less.optimistic. Still, pocket screws have their place, when it doesn't have to be that strong. I always try to withhold myself from over-engineering too.

[@bevaroni27]

What size of drill bit do you use to drill your holes. I'm assuming that it isn't one of those stepped Kreg bits.

[@davewilliams355]

Good vid mate, I always believed in pocket holes, have you got a build video for the pocket hole jig thing

[@LeeHill66]

Now flip the ramp over with the screw holes up and drive on it. It would be stronger had you driven the screws in from the sides of the board and not use pocket holes.

[@Rooxie973]

wrong if you're talking about screwing through end grain

[@johnbeckman8916]

Love you man! I noticed that you used your single drill machine. All thou it is fast, I was wondering about the 6 drill version that you were experimenting with. Did that version not pan out? Keep up the good work!

[@carlosjacob163]

Interesting video.

[@cls52077]

I'd like to know about your pocket hole drill! Do you have a video on that?

[@letsbe4realjackass523]

Try it with a screw every 6 or 4 inches apart and see what happens. Most ppl don't put pocket holes every inch or 2 apart. Pocket holes may be somewhat strong, but they have there place. However those who use them on EVERY project are not using them because of their strength, but because they don't have the craftsmanship to use any other jointery....or because they are lazy. Hmm...who comes to mind??

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

***** I just checked and the screws are 3-4" apart. Most are around 3 1/2 " apart. Most people are not trying to hold up a car either

[@georgestanfield7395]

if I were building ramps to use to get under a car, I would use thicker wood and the ramp would be sitting on top of the sides with gussets and an end cap on the high side. This is not to prove pocket screws should be used to build car ramps. it is only a test of strength.

[@TreeborgCNC]

This is not a really fair test since a ramp is much stronger than a 90o box and you would never use as many screws as you did. This is a great party trick but is this a real world test? Lets see you compare a cantilevered shelve using different types of joints. It really depends on the application. Pocketholes are good for certain types of applications but they are still much weaker than well done mortise joints. When you make a box with a backing panel it really doesn't matter how strong is your joint since the sheer force of the backing panel will be much higher to overcome than any joint you add to your construction. But if you are making shelves or any type of cantilevered construction you would want the strongest joinery you can work with.

[@frozensilent]

for me personally, it's never been so much about strength (even though they ARE weaker than most other types of joinery), it's more that I feel like pocket holes are just lazy, dowels are cheating enough for me, that"s what I use when I'm in a rush, or there isn't enough material for a tenon. I never use pocket holes if I can avoid it.

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

frozensilent You don't know what you're missing!

[@frozensilent]

you might be right, but I think I have a fair of what I'm "missing", and I don't mind :)

[@Joeandfran]

Great test!! What if you took out two opposing screws in the ramp and re -test,continuing til it begins to fail? Your stuff is awesome! Joe G

[@Hemmersfield1]

Pocket holes will stress great when you apply pressure in this direction, apply some horizontal stress and you're well behind. Pocket holes aren't that good.

[@Lee-qp6gf]

good video. Been missing you on the Tube. where have you been?

[@rzmonk76]

Thought i heard some cracking. Perhaps it was the rocks.

[@richey761]

that has realy surprised me i would have said they are no where near as strong as that

[@willemkossen]

That was fast!

[@JimBeshears]

Kreg has ruined the art of woodworking.

[@kickpublishing]

+Jim Beshears No, it's left all the good used tools for us :-)

[@JimBeshears]

Good point, lol.

[@peterstewart9376]

Wrong, Kreg has made woodworking so much more approachable for novices.

[@JimBeshears]

Peter Matthew Yes it has Peter.

[@rider660r]

But now you have a flood of pallet,barn wood,rustic,and other crap being made with them.It's easy and no one today cares to learn proper as long as there is an easy way,and because it's so easy a caveman can do it it's way way WAY over used. I hate seeing the holes,makes a piece look like crap. I'll still take the time to dowel,lap,M&T,etc. before pocket screwing or biscuiting. There are a ton of these pockethole warriors on FB asking why did this fail or that blah blah blah whatever.Besides telling them what and why it happened,people should only tell them to go get some subscriptions to magazines,go to the library.KZbin isn't even a good source anymore because there are so many poor choices posted day in and day out. I bet if we could screw another 40 in that ramp they could have driven a bus on it,he went a lil hogwild with the pocket machine.

[@MrShanestain]

Nova Scotia!

[@MrSteveieM]

But would you get under it?

[@isaacorozco8178]

Nobody said they werent strong, they are just ugly

[@Electobat]

so

[@falpikikos]

you need some air dude:)

[@valimel]

Say it, i know you want to, you are biting your tongue to not say it, i can bet that you want to say three words that start with F Y M.

[@Woodentoolcompany2]

Adolfo Torres not at all, however....I think this shows just how strong they are

[@hugeslacker]

This is stupid lol.. No way in hell I would ever get under there