The Universes Within Controversy: Wizards Lied to Players

The Commander's Quarters is your Magic the Gathering source that helps you Command Your Budget! Today Mitch talks about The Universes Within Controversy: Wizards Lied to Players!
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[@TheCommandersQuarters]

Proxies Dropbox Download Link (you don't need an account or to request access - just click "continue with download only"): bit.ly/tcq_proxy-promise

[@Trenjeska]

Needs account to save the pdf....

[@Trenjeska]

nvm, there is a very tiny, non recognizable link text below all big buttons they want you to click with "or continue with download only"

[@bryanholdren9043]

awesome man! very cool of you to do!

[@bakudanashita]

Thank you.

[@daviddyke2k]

Thanks Mitch!

[@Zanzibawrr]

it is clear to me that wotc is more focused on the *payers* rather than the *players*

[@Lodosswar100]

The payers are indeed all that matters, because alot of the payers are not even players.

[@strugglerX93]

@@Lodosswar100 they are a for-profit business. What did you expect? You can pay to play and keep drumming the business and make sure the game keeps going or you can’t. Simple as that. I don’t agree with many of the things that they are doing. The fact of the matter is that they’re going to continue to make new sets, they are going to continue to generate large profits, and they are going to continue to power creep cards and if you don’t keep up with them, then your deck will eventually become weak.

[@mistasp0t]

Sry to tell u a majority of players play commander and like UB ur the minority

[@mistasp0t]

Sry to tell u a majority of players play commander and like UB ur the minority

[@brainhuman7609]

no, they do not care about the secret lair payers

[@turtleinvader2982]

I am torn between my love of magic and DND and my hatred of WOTC

[@WaltonSauce]

Insert Karl Marx: Capital meme

[@fjaychou]

Same here

[@relevantusername3342]

At least with DND it's pretty easy to exclude WOTC.

[@TheY0shi08]

Don't forget about Hasbro

[@treckogalico6966]

Really its more likely hasbro

[@Raznab]

Since promises don't matter anymore, lets just reprint the reserve list in tournament legal versions.

[@tylerduncanson2661]

They’ve started printing cards in white-border versions again, so now they can reprint them that way.

[@blacklanner5886]

​@tylerduncanson2661 white border isn't what defines RL

[@jaydenbp-f5t]

cards shouldn't be for profit i hate those ppl. tcgs should be for fun and playing fun cards not money

[@bobbyhelms4880]

Couldda made the inifity stones moxen. Am disappointed.

[@sketchyzxch2958]

@@bobbyhelms4880that would’ve been fire 😂

[@zpeedy1]

At this point, my collection is large enough to just brew with what I have and proxy the odd card I need. Upgrading was getting to be too much anyway. Thanks wizards, your decision will save me money.

[@uv_khamaileon]

I have so many cards including some from alpha ... I am in the same boat .. planning to proxy singles in the future of limited run over priced cards

[@natelagrassa9337]

Facts. That’s why I stopped playing standard after 15 years… it got way too pricey and pumping sets out every 3 months got tiring to keep up with budget wise and time wise…

[@natelagrassa9337]

@ I’m almost at that point

[@jaydenbp-f5t]

cards shouldn't be for profit i hate those ppl. tcgs should be for fun and playing fun cards not money

[@Grimkeeper17]

​@jaydenbp-f5t Investors are the only reason any sport and or competitive game is able to continue.

[@WriteToLive01]

Wizards desensitized us to Universes Beyond. This was always the plan. Secret Lairs > Commander Decks > Modern Legal Sets. It's the next step in the devolution of the game's lore.

[@therealnecromancer1231]

you forgot the news for 2025, universes beyond is gone! spider-man and final fantasy and an unknown IP will be standard legal

[@WriteToLive01]

@therealnecromancer1231 hence why I said it's the next stage. Eventually, this will become smash up or one of those crossover card games. Because the current staff at Hasbro can't design card games. So, we bastardize what works

[@ByteMe908]

What kind of fucking boomer gives af about a card games lore it’s just a damn card game about customization touch grass

[@damedus]

never get desensitized if you played from beta for the card game rather than any lore behind the cards. if anything now cards have household names. It's really about the unique mechanic of the cards and them not being available. if secret lairs were kept and not time gated i woudnt see the issue because not only would the average secret lair card would be 8~10 bucks there woudnt be a need for scalpers or single price spikes cause the cards could always be aquired from wizards storefront at any time.

[@jaydenbp-f5t]

cards shouldn't be for profit i hate those ppl. tcgs should be for fun and playing fun cards not money

[@davidfields5375]

Wizards themselves will tell you how far ahead sets are developed, meaning that the upcoming standard UB sets have been set long long ago before they ever told us their plans. There is no time for backlash, no chance of course correction. The branding agreements are made. Corporate machine go brr.

[@davidfields5375]

@N4chtigall good news! You are powerless as a consumer and corporate will pull what you love right or from under you without recourse whatsoever, whenever feel they like! Aren't you grateful?!

[@Nebulabomb]

If I want to play a card game wit Marvel characters, I'll play Marvel Snap. I got into MtG because of the worlds and the characters they made. Hell, I read the trilogy of books for Mirrodin and Kamigawa because of the cards I had and the little bits of lore I saw on them. Magic has so much to pull from without having to use other IPs, its a shame that those with power don't care about anything but profit.

[@AaRoNiAnnn]

Exactly my take with marvel snap.. and I’m also just SO TIRED of marvel feeling like it’s shoved down my throat in every game I turn to

[@Noremak_Notrap]

​@@AaRoNiAnnnevery. Single. Damn .game. man, felt that.

[@ProphecyPhrase]

I mean look at how crazy well Bloomburrow did. Just goes to show Magic doesn't need other IPs to do well if they put enough effort in but then again... why put in effort when you can slap another IP on it and make much more money more quickly?

[@shrouded8797]

What Kamigawa books are you talking about? I have only recently gotten into Magic, and all of the older books I've been able to read have been great. I'd love to read more.

[@diabeticmonkey]

@@ProphecyPhrase Bloomburrow didn’t even matter. They don’t care. If they did, we could’ve stayed with a successful set for another round like Neon Dynasty. It’s a sad state. I would’ve loved to see a second expansion for both of those.

[@PerpetuallyTiredMillennial]

I was roasted repeatedly online whenever I brought up my problems with universes beyond being bad for the game's identity in the long-term by defenders of it. Finally now that Gandalf and The Third Doctor blocking Ironman equipped with the assassin's regalia is an actual sentence you could hear at a table is set to be a reality do I see people getting it. Cross-overs are not always a good thing.

[@damedus]

or you can just state what the card is doing rather that saying its name, thats how I always played magic since naming the card sometimes just got ppl asking me and what does it do so i simply state im attacking with thisx/x equipped with x/x power for a total of x/x and cast this to raise it to x/x and add x effect. or my favorite, whats triggering that effect? A: this lil cardboard right here.

[@PerpetuallyTiredMillennial]

@damedus As someone who was first drawn to the game as a kid by the cool art and the overall mtg IP 20 years ago, it depresses me that this core aspect of the experience is something we have to ignore in order to enjoy the game now.

[@Mischievous_Moth]

Is it really a roast when you're right though?

[@PerpetuallyTiredMillennial]

@@Mischievous_Moth Me right or the UB defenders right?

[@nullpoint3346]

Honestly, that sounds pretty neat, a shame that a card game I don't like is dying for this to happen. That's not sarcasm, it _is_ a shame that Magic is dying for this.

[@EnordAreven]

They could have just done the Godzilla alters, released them the same time, but no, now We've got a spiderman standard and we might not even get an option to play in a format without it.

[@tc5589-1]

Godzilla was the first dip on the slope. People went over it excitedly and ignored the warnings that it gets steeper and has rocks at the bottom. Oh well, now wotc is in the rocks as far as I’m concerned. I’ll make proxies to play with friends but I won’t buy more cards. At least until I find a new card game worth getting into.

[@TarnaxTheBarbarian]

People need to stop thinking WotC is the same company it used to be. Its not the cool company run by nerds that we all grew up with anymore, and it hasnt been for a long time. I hate seeing such a treasured piece of my youth rot away slowly like this, but trust me, the sting goes away once you accept it. When you move on, just remember: nothing can ever take away the memories you made and experiences you shared with your friends. You can always take that sense of wonderment and magic and find a hobby that actually cares about you and the experience you have and you can make new memories with friends.

[@leadpaintchips9461]

TBH the rot isn't slow.

[@chickeneverythingisfine9338]

So funny how every time they say a promise they break it and use fluffy language to try to cover their BS. Same with D&D’s OGL debacle, we need to stay strong as a community and continue to expose them.

[@goliathsteinbeisser3547]

And what is that going to achieve? Nothing. They don't care as long as they make money from you.

[@chickeneverythingisfine9338]

@ They do care if we hit them like we did with the OGL and unsubscribing to D&D Beyond. As a community if we actually get together we can hurt them by not feeding them money.

[@bobhouses2036]

With enough money nothing is sacred 😊

[@Mischievous_Moth]

It's not just Hasbro and WotC though, this rot has worked its way into just about every corporation. I hate this corporate dystopia we live in.

[@tuongpham7609]

Great thing about proxies, they can be whatever universe you want.

[@leobardis1721]

Yep, just gonna keep on printing my own copies to play with friends.

[@blynnxx9490]

True true. Just use different art and give it a different name bigger above the smaller actual name. (like they have before) think that’s the plan if a card seems fun from the UN sets (beyond)

[@DeathAndCatmix]

It’s a full-time job keeping up with printing the proxies too. I finish a commander deck and then I have to make more changes like every 2-3 weeks. I don’t even have time to play anymore. lol

[@damedus]

exactly, and probably the reason UB dont bother me at all since I been using my own UB of games I like to change the art of my cards.

[@tiagothinks]

​@@DeathAndCatmixmpc cards. Buy them. Or mtg proxies.

[@TFisherwastaken]

Use this comment as a proxy approval button.

[@TheKrismage2000]

I’ll even say it straight. I’ll use the counterfeit cards moving forward. The quality is better, and won’t even feel guilty.

[@spenserroxsox]

If cards aren't being sold to me, then proxying isn't stealing

[@JimBoulter108]

While I approve of this proxy comment, it shouldn't have more likes than the original post. 🤷‍♂️

[@TheKrismage2000]

@@hommedesbois9080 we wanna play the game, not the game playing us.

[@spenserroxsox]

@@hommedesbois9080 i might have no honor, but I'm not a complete idiot.

[@egr1957]

If they don't want to make the same cards twice because "It's too hard", why not just stop the alternate universe cards and just make normal magic cards?

[@amaya6091]

Money

[@cavemantero]

because FUOU GIB ME MUH-KNEE

[@tc5589-1]

Because that’s not what magic players want. It’s what they say they want but when it’s time to actually spend money to get the cards they don’t spend money to get the magic ip cards.

[@Aldrnari956]

I’m shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked. Futurama has a quote for every situation.

[@ashrog82]

Oooh, when does that set come out?

[@BuriedFlame]

@@ashrog82 Hey, it might be along with that space opera set.

[@RoBaDoB143]

Dude the marvel secret lair drop was a huge failure. People figured out they could change get their clock and it would put them i. Front of queue. So it's all gone, and I waited for 2 hours and still hadn't gotten in. Screw WotC

[@QuantumBeard]

That explains A LOT

[@Mirthful_Midori]

That's hilarious. That's so bad that it feels like WotC teamed up with Bethesda to code their website.

[@Lemon_Sage9999]

​@@Mirthful_Midori "It JUST works"

[@tc5589-1]

Good riddance. You’re part of the problem for buying it

[@Infernoblade1010]

I loved the irony of them printing a card, which was literally called "The fear of missing out," knowing that's exactly what they've been capitalizing on for years.

[@3ndlessL00p]

I always say "WOTC business strategy" instead of its name when playing this card.

[@gilliganallmighty3]

Hasbro/Wizards/Rosewater lied!? In other news, water is wet.

[@MusicalBoarder]

Water isnt wet. Water makes things wet

[@jacobreserved2144]

Other other news. Sand happens to be dry

[@lifestyle936]

Water is wet indeed.

[@BussyConnoisseur]

​@@MusicalBoarder this

[@MusicalBoarder]

@@lifestyle936 no

[@brennenjohnson7412]

I remember your "Wizards, your dead to me video." Haven't collaborated with Game Knights since.

[@MusicalBoarder]

What does this even mean?

[@8Smoker8]

Good stuff, kept his word too. Will rewatch

[@saw31489]

@@MusicalBoarder it means that Game Knights are WotC shills

[@damientalrose553]

It means that Wizards has betrayed promises and we need to hold them accountable, but groups like Game Knights have been backing Wizards this whole time, even with the betrayals. Josh (from Game Knights) hasn't been happy with recent changes, though.

[@MusicalBoarder]

@@damientalrose553 that channel is shit anyway

[@bodiemeredith3555]

I am one more massive letdown from just proxying everything

[@bobsmitg6987]

I'm already there

[@TarnaxTheBarbarian]

Why wait for more disappointment? You already know its coming.

[@taylorbrustad808]

We need to normalize proxying at this point

[@Deeznutzyamouth]

I have 14 decks all proxies. 😊

[@sephnickel9516]

Proxy away friend, it's so liberating and only has advantages. Make sure to check out the magic the gathering subreddit made specifically for proxies. Read the FAQ first before posting though.

[@affinityforanime]

Looks like if we want Magic-themed versions of these cards, it's time to start proxying!

[@Karlihv]

Yeah , and actually use the original artists and so much comics to choose from !! PROXY, PROXY, PROXY!!!

[@tc5589-1]

Do it for all cards. If their profits drop in this phase of decisions they might correct. But they see profits on reports that aren’t necessarily set specific. They need a year of reduced profits.

[@ilyafoskin]

UB sets are a liability outside of Secret Lairs too. I don’t think they’ve been able to reprint a single UB card as the UB version and now that they’re going to be releasing full sized UB sets, there are going to be thousands of cards which they can never reprint. I think Mark is being vague about the Secret Lair reprint possibilities because WotC have no legal mechanism to do it yet. Universes Beyond are negotiated and produced as though they are limited collectors items but WotC are requiring them to be necessary game pieces so that they sell better. The result will be incredible scarcity and massive deck prices in every format

[@Saint0fPain]

Recent Secret Lair Drop outcome for me: I got in to the wait line at 12:06 PM for a bundle. I waited for over 4 hours in que. It was sold out, and I was unable to purchase what I had reserved in my basket for checkout while waiting over 4 hours in line. This is the breaking point for me. I will no longer be buying any product directly from Hasbro or Wizards of the Coast. No new sealed product or commander precons for me. I'm undecided if I will even buy new cards of the secondary market at this point as the sale of those cards on the secondary market promotes people to buy from this company. So, I may be selling my full collection and moving on to other hobbies.

[@chesterfieldthe3rd929]

Sorcery Contested Realm

[@wadewilson5712]

proxcy is the way

[@firestar5810]

Honestly thinking of the same. Selling out and only using proxies while my cards still hold value. Magic is dying and it's time to bail out while we still can.

[@elladan23]

Wizard lied to players... .. again.

[@dendostar5436]

It’s like it’s what they do, or something.

[@justincoleman9776]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice and it's BYEEEEE

[@ldeming]

I mean WotC is clearly signaling that it's okay to proxy at this point... since they're going to to the trouble of printing an entire set of Marvel themed "proxy" Magic cards ;-)

[@sir_quirkus7206]

Proxy has always been okay lol

[@tempeststormwind17]

This is why “PRE-MODERN” is light years beyond the best format in magic. Its a format that cant be jerked around and screwed up by wizards. Its a fun strategic game the way magic was meant to played in the first place. No ultra over powered pushed beyond the limits BS barf my combo out turn 1 n 2 i win garbage. I swear nearly every game turns into somewhat of a chess match going 10+ turns. I absolutely fell in looooove with premodern just over 1 year ago. I havent played any other 60 card format in 7 years n im a lot happier for it. Magic is enjoyable when my deck doesnt get banned out of the format. Also that cards dont get directly inserted into the format.

[@rowankeltizar5961]

What set is the cut off?

[@diabeticmonkey]

@@rowankeltizar5961 Mirrodin

[@diabeticmonkey]

I agree. Premodern is a fantastic format with so many options that people forgot about. I love it.

[@tempeststormwind17]

@@rowankeltizar59614th edition to Scourge

[@alexdart4064]

What's pre-modern?

[@benjaminwoods126]

On the fun side, the site broke during this morning when the secret lair opened up. Meaning Some of us are stuck in limbo too afraid to walk away for losing our spot in the Queue, and even after more than 2 hours of waiting I do not know if I am going to be able to buy any of the lairs. Nevermind the bundle that I want with all of them in it.

[@alilhard]

11:12 "Somewhere other than from purchasing directly from our site" so magiccon promo, comiccon promo, marvel book promo, get the idea ? Because honestly that's the first thought that crossed my mind with this kind of phrasing.

[@keywacat]

Why is anyone surprised? I expect the policy to print in-universe cards died the day they announced Universes Beyond were going to be standard-legal.

[@tc5589-1]

I knew it when they did lotr. There was no way to get the reprints in if they were eating into real sets that could have housed those reprints. Now that it’s at half only an idiot would expect this promise to stand.

[@TheOtherAngle]

I miss the early days when WotC actually cared about their products and the players who bought them. Now the only thing that matters to them is money.

[@CaptainMarvel4Ever]

Ya know Mitch, in order to appeal to the west, Shadowverse Evolve (the paper version of Shadowverse) just introduced its own “Commander” style format complete with 4 player groups, highlander, and of course a commander. That game is still relatively unknown here in this part of the world, but it is absolute quality. If you ever need a break or want to find some meaningful competition, check it out some time. Some of the earliest full boxes can be purchased for under $30. It’s like an indie game’s mindset but with the power of a major corporation behind it.

[@rogerhurtubise2150]

I've been collecting Shadowverse for about a year now.

[@Almighty_Mage]

Didn’t they censor the cards for the west?

[@CaptainMarvel4Ever]

@ I wouldn’t be surprised, lots of Japanese TCGs will do that. Sucks, but what can ya do?

[@Ultimateer]

I’ve never bought a Secret Lair and I never will. Voting with our wallets is the only way they hear.

[@theg3843]

There are 3 full sets/year of universe beyond.. secret lairs are just drops in the ocean

[@2ndLastStarfighter]

I've done the exact same thing...but our valiant efforts don't mean a damn thing when collectors and whales scoop up SL in droves.

[@damedus]

you forgot a vast group wants these cards. add to that the colectors and people who are joining the game cause of UB and teh wallet vote is poof, when something is popular wallets are replaceable. Now if it was something without a fanbase then maybe a wallet vote might count. Remember companies dont want your money, they want money period, the chart shows income and not our devotion to the game.

[@hijjak97]

Our wallets aren't the ones they're listening to.

[@Ultimateer]

@ everyone is free to do the same as me, or something different. It’s a free country.

[@raunchbagger]

That's it. I am jumping on the proxy train. The community will design universes within versions or at least alternate characters, the price of every card is 50 cents (Every proxy card is budget), and Wotc doesn't get another dollar of mine. They have milked the cow dry over the past 2 years

[@tc5589-1]

Smart man

[@deanblanchard3816]

There’s a guy who orders stickers, and sticks them over lands. I can’t tell the difference when they’re sleeved up. Hard to tell the difference out of sleeve.

[@tattooman3603]

I think Mark Rosewater is likely at odds with the higher ups at Hasbro, and his hands are being tied. He wants to follow through with things and continue to make a product with the core MTG players and base customers in mind, but Hasbro is coming in, spanking his hand and saying "No, you'll do what WE tell you." Hasbro, being a large greedy corporation, is looking to expand their IP's to get as many new customers as possible, as quickly as possible, and they are throwing all these new UB products at us because "Spiderman did well, people like Spiderman, right?" and "How do we get younger players in, how about SpongeBob." It's older marketing execs that have NO idea what MTG is and what the core base is, so they are just using standard ideas like they used for Monopoly and other games but which will NEVER work for MTG. I think Rosewater WANTS to do well for the base, but cannot due to the execs holding the ear of the CEO. I'm also thinking that the Lorwyn set pushback was him having to make a timeline concession so they could squeeze in all their other crap, (Edge of Eternities, SpongeBob, Spiderman, Final Fantasy, UB) while still allowing him to put out Lorwyn untainted (for now) The only thing I'm looking forward to this next year is the new Tarkir set, unless they do some shenanigans with that too. I don't want another Clue set, or planeswalkers in cowboy hats, or horror movies, or modern tools like chainsaws. They've already driven me from spending thousands a year in two or three purchases of each set, to ONLY spending a couple of hundred a year buying singles due to the over saturation. I suspect there are a ton more players doing the same. As long as they keep doing this UB crap, they're going to keep pissing off old players and the new players they DO get will become bored very fast and only be a new player for a year. They are cutting their own throat AND ours in the process.

[@bakudanashita]

I wish I had your optimism but, from the very first time I saw him, maro seemed to me little more than Hasbro's court jester and over the intervening years he has done very little to sway that opinion. I really don't understand how people love him so much. I'm sure he's a great guy behind the scenes and does have a true love for this game but, in public, the man is a showman, a snake oil salesman, a carney, it is all an act. The fact that the majority of people don't see that genuinely scares me.

[@dr.pultandmrgrimm991]

@@bakudanashita I think the same thing with Gavin. That's he's just a mouth for Mark and Hasbro and is "in on it" too

[@blynnxx9490]

I feel like many people forget mark rose water LOVES UN sets. He’s said before he plays it often. Are we surprised he wants wacky not magic stuff in magic?

[@fuzzyhair321]

Warhammer went through this only a decade ago. It takes sales to plummet before anything changes, so use proxies in the mean time. If we stop buying then that's it. Games workshop went through a period of ignoring the base going oh people will continue to buy our stuff releasing poor rules and game balance which ruined everything. Took 5yrs and a soft reboot to get things back on track. Now Warhammer is bigger than ever

[@46three]

At some point, if he loved Magic as he says he does, he would have left rather than stand by and defend the slow erosion of MtG by Hasbro. He is a sales person, and in the end, he's selling Hasbro's clueless vision of 'more printings equals more money' ad infinitum.

[@fuzzyjets]

Of all the promises we want them to break this is not the one

[@gameguru42392]

Storm is about to be a 500 dollar card in 2 hours.

[@rebratfisch]

whatever... I will buy a 2 dolar proxy anyway :)

[@Eldalion99999]

@@rebratfisch where do you get your proxies from ? Looking for a good store

[@8Smoker8]

3.5$ proxy, and I don't even care enough to spend those 3.5 tbh.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

If you're paying for a fake card (proxy), you're doing it wrong. Also, magic has become a joke.

[@8Smoker8]

@@Arctanis-vt3hl it's a compromise. I can't produce (nearly) perfect proxies myself.

[@SoloFan87]

Well if you want this Universes Beyond to stop. Quit buying the products either for collection, re-sell, and the secondary market purchases. Those are the three main problems there.

[@deadizbetter]

And then the scalpers will still buy it all.

[@kindlerluki6993]

I will join in mate. +1

[@SoloFan87]

@@deadizbetter exactly they are apart of the problem, don’t buy from them.

[@Scarydog9224]

I love but hate this, im a newer play and the fallout collab got me in. 1 hand it introduces alot of people. On the other it fs over the og players

[@kindlerluki6993]

@@Scarydog9224 fair point. But spiderman (or what whatever) as a standard set a with a legality in every single format changes the game. To me it’s fair to play cards which are reprints or which are only legal in commander ( and your playgroup decides which you may play). I think it’s pretty annoying to still have the one ring for example still legal in modern … just because they “can’t ban” it… or don’t want.

[@KupoPotion]

I hope making a new Commander format where UB is not legal starts and takes off it would solve a lot of problems such as 1. WOTC controlling the format. 2. the format would go back to when there was only three new sets a year. 3. having to worry about magic becoming Fortnite. might even help keep power creep in check because you know WOTC will power creep UB sets to make sure they sell.

[@RiverJensen]

Why is WotC so commited to pissing off its established player base

[@Ninthtail9]

Mr. crabs: They like money

[@danikirk5774]

Because Hasbro is failing during this quarter and are relying on WotC to make up for the losses.... WotC is the only part of Hasbro besides Monopoly Go that is doing even halfway decently.

[@Nikigettingbetter]

Our game cannot be trusted with WotC, so we must remove their hegemonic claim to the system. Print proxies, play custom cards, don’t spend a dime on WotC products! Magic can only survive through prefiguring a Magic community that doesn’t defer to WotC for anything, including products and rulings

[@Choom89]

Games dead, I know it's a meme at this point with how many times it's been said in the past but what we are looking at IS a death bed. What MtG was will never return, unless the license goes to someone less greedy.

[@jetazei7807]

I started playing mtg with Alara Reborn, and I spent a LOT of money into this hobby during the years. I think it's time I sell all of my collection and just proxy a couple of edh decks to play with friends, beacuse I really can't find a good reason to keep giving money to hasbro

[@gamerfoxarts9331]

I gave my collection to friends who still played and kept my own deck

[@Noremak_Notrap]

Starting to feel that way too. I got into mtg cause my friends got me into commander. I have 4 commander decks and I think that is honestly enough for me. don't think I'll be buying fancy new secret lairs or edh precons

[@markusaurelius83]

Selling your cards will hurt you more than anybody else. I just keep my stuff, but it looks like in 2025 I will only buy a few singles from the new Tarkir Set, because that's the only Magic set in that year. xD

[@tc5589-1]

Good call on the proxies. Don’t sell. Use real cards you already own. You don’t get much money back anyways

[@jornbrodthagen8607]

They could simply make the card double-faced with the In-Universe version on the back.

[@chadw8161]

I actually dig this idea

[@alexthefae]

Marvel has its own card game we dont want marvel stuff

[@Noremak_Notrap]

I don't wanna see any superheros at all in mtg, I hate seeing superheros shoved down my throat. Rather see the wizards and knights be the badasses in mtg world and not some flashy hero who just fell out of no where cause their ip got bought.

[@tc5589-1]

You’re self evidently wrong. Look at how much it sold. Magic players, like all communities, get what they deserve. Ub sold well so they’re doing it more. Marvel sold really well so they’re not going to stop at just Spider-Man. Im sure FF will sell really well too. The death of the magic theme is equally the players fault.

[@deanblanchard3816]

@@tc5589-1eh, with the secondary market value dropping fast Spider-Man might not do that well. There are whales, but I feel like that sets gotta have game breaking cards if they want people to buy it. I think it’ll do better than your average set, but nothing like LOTR. …there’s a lot of finance bros still. I watched one go around trying to buy everything from this Secret Lair, to offering the bundles for 10$ more. I thought I was gonna see less of them after the banning… but who knows… history might keep repeating itself… you might sadly be right…

[@jayslay6782]

I’m doing this I reccomend everyone doing this, sell all your cards make proxies for anything from now on it’s so easy and it’s free and it’s fun. Trust me. They don’t care about you only your money, why give them any of it if they don’t respect you

[@reviser99]

Is there a specific site to make custom proxies or are you talking about proxing regular cards?

[@gamerfoxarts9331]

i say proxy any new cards you want. Keep the cards you have if you want to

[@simonchi5372]

why not just play a different game? Why support this company in any way including time, energy and engagement?

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

I would just sell my cards and not play anymore. If you're not playing with real cards, you are committing piracy and not playing the game anyways. Might as well get out. Magic isn't the same with all the UB crap.

[@williamvanbuskirk5912]

@@Arctanis-vt3hl It's not piracy to use easily identifiable proxies. Even Wizards agrees with that, for now at least lol

[@deansullivan4179]

Mark Rosewater is really pulling a Darth Vader here: “I’ve altered the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.”

[@itsallenwow]

Wizards when they promise speculators in the 90’s they won’t reprint the reserve list cards despite no one wanting the RL: 🚨🚨🚨 Wizards when they tell you something 3 years ago: 😅😅😅

[@niXonc0x]

DC and Marvel both had moments in their stories when lots of extra universes were destoryed, consolidating down to one main one. HOW DOPE will it be if Eldrazi/Ugin/phyrexians/Urza's mom Thanos-snap all universes beyond shit out of standard etc.

[@NuclearGX]

Wait, if Wizards can just ignore this promise then why is the reserved list still a thing?

[@MajuGen]

Reserved list has actual legal implications. THis "promise" had no legal ramifications.

[@MusicalBoarder]

​@@MajuGenreserve listhas 0 legality. It is not a 'stock' and therefore does not fall under financial laws.

[@George-mm8cr]

​@@MusicalBoarder yep exactly, its the argument I make constantly. It is not regulated by any authority so they have no legal incentive to adhere to their own promise.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

@@MajuGen No it doesn't - the reserve list can be abolished with no issues. If people tried to sue because they thing they're entitled to value in their collection, they would be laughed out of court. I own reserve list cards but that was just to play legacy and that's the only reason to buy them.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

@@michaelwaynetucker No they didn't. You're making this up. There are no legal consequences. Whales will complain, but that's about it.

[@crazyduck4899]

I haven’t tuned in to CQ for awhile, but immediate respect for the voting links at the start of the video. Anything to encourage everyone’s voice to vote no matter who they are voting for.

[@vaepuer2290]

at this point i feel like im cursed. everything I join and get invested in starts to crumble and die

[@rowankeltizar5961]

Welcome to humanity

[@vaepuer2290]

@@rowankeltizar5961 lol ok

[@blakhawk999]

How about Boffer LARP?

[@tc5589-1]

That’s just this decade. It doesn’t matter what you joined because it’s all crumbling and dying. It’s sad but you do have a chance to get in on the ground floor for the things that rise from the ashes and rot. Look for games trying to establish themselves and get your friends to buy into it. Play with them and spread the word.

[@186Soup]

Well, I will just proxy Wolverine then instead of buying the secret lair. This video helped finalize my decision.

[@kennethbartels4274]

If i wanted to play fortnight, i would play that game.

[@jacobreserved2144]

Fkn preach it

[@marxpeklegotechnicdesign3]

As a magic player who also plays fortnite with his kids i can tell you: fortnite is less of a cashgrab and does not allow acces to special game pieces which provide some form of advantage to players if they pay up..

[@alexmanzanares200]

@@marxpeklegotechnicdesign3 "less cashgrab" my guy they literally started mini battlepasses and announced sneakers as a new primary cosmetics lol

[@charyou3167]

I get the comparison but don’t get this comment. Magic isn’t a shooter.

[@Dysfunctional_Reprint]

Magic has gone a vibrant and unique setting with its own lore and story. Now Magic is the flashlight with which hasbro strokes it's licensing partners. Thanks you for killing and then desecrating a game I deeply love.

[@corymachlan6177]

They made so much hype for this secret lair that the site started having technical issues almost immediately after those cards went live. Smh

[@Solidwake]

I've been done with magic for a couple years now. Everything that is happening does break my heart. However, I will choose to respect what cards people want to play with, as I choose to remove all universes Beyond cards from my decks and play with in universe.

[@theg3843]

"moving into a much more universe beyond-heavy magic" 🤢 Ok time to play pre-modern or pre-pioneer and say goodbye to these idiots

[@floydjones3358]

"I wonder how fast I can ruin this game." - Mike Rosewater, probably.

[@tc5589-1]

He’s just a sellout following orders in exchange for money. Certainly he doesn’t deserve respect or even understanding, but he isn’t the one doing the ruining.

[@TheOnlyMisterC]

Your Ironman Proxy is not an Artifact Creature

[@TacticalOmelette]

As I write this comment, the Marvel secret lair drops have just came, and went within hours. 100% sold out across the board. Needless to say, these changes aren't going anywhere at all.

[@deathandroses3861]

17:53 glad you mentioned the library

[@MrGrimord]

I hate UB. It's killing MTG and WotC doesn't seems to care. Stupid greedy business.

[@Alchemy_Anarchy]

I read that as “ I hate blue black.”

[@TeaMate08]

Okay so the only thing that is changing is that SL won’t be reprinted as Universe with in but the SL will still be reprinted as a mechanic. So no unique mechanics in SL and that’s is the big point. So there will still be another option to play the mechanic without paying the expensive SL, you just have to play universe beyond cards and that is the case already because universe beyond will be modern and standard legal

[@matthewcichy4187]

This is the frog in boiling water. They put us in the water, slowly turned up the temperature and now we are all boiling...

[@JanterCyrano]

But frogs do jump out, the ones who don't jump is: Us

[@alexdart4064]

Feels more like Stockholm syndrome imo

[@patrickdee6646]

If that isn't insider trading, I don't know what is... I do believe that's why we had EDH separate from a WOTC entity and should probably go back to being so.

[@Tenno222]

I was against proxies but a few months ago I said to hell with it . Really glad I didn’t buy that jeweled lotus and got a $3 proxy instead .

[@lucien134]

Still too much

[@Tenno222]

@ it was a custom art I got at con

[@bloomcrawler]

It's funny seeing the same comments now that we saw 20 years ago. Even 10 years ago WOTC was saying its not about old players it's all about attracting new players Universes beyond (although newer) has done a great job at that. WOTC has made very clear for a very along time it's more about them making money.

[@apjapki]

They were always going to. Anyone who followed this channel since the start knew it.

[@dag7227]

The list was already a "techically" solution; this is what everyone thought was the worst case hasbro/wotc could have done when when they started with walking dead 😤. And the whole ending the list and "well we can't reprint EVERY UB card in universal" is such bs, people wanted the Warhammer commanders not the random fluff

[@tamilazzaro2145]

Best way to stop the MtG insanity is to just quit buying the new product....

[@xXtheONEandONLYXx]

It's the only logical thing to do. Yet everyone refuses to agree with this.

[@Mtonazzi]

@@xXtheONEandONLYXx or even worse, they think they're not fueling WotC by "buying singles" because if they don't give them money for sealed product, the guy they buy the singles form totally didn't had to give WotC money first in order to get the cards 9.9

[@atombased-m3d]

Well, I think we've all learned something here, and I really hope that lesson is PROXY PROXY PROXY ALL DAY. Take a sticky note and draw an actual Wolverine on it and call it your commander, I'll cheer you on and be your unspoken ally. This is sad more than anything, and it breaks my heart for these LGSs that will lose out on clientele because of poor piloting on Wizards' part. Take heart my cardboard cohorts, we will still be able to make fun happen with paper Magic and our own rules as the world melts around us. Live up and have fun!!!

[@Joecool870]

I was in line this morning when the secret lair first opened today, and by the time i got in line, it was mostly sold out.

[@BodysmasherMTG]

I love that you made the in-universe version for those that support proxies, thank you

[@bryceneedham1860]

Wizards can’t acknowledge the second hand market so I guess these unique secret lairs might as well not exist. Proxy cards.

[@saw31489]

Except that they do, constantly. Anytime they mention prices, they are bringing in the secondary market

[@Mtonazzi]

@@saw31489 Yes, but they insist in claiming that they're not. Some said because if they do, whenever they announce special reprints like The List and such, some politician may think they fall into gambling

[@mylen82]

I'm with you on the "they should keep their promise", but also, proxies, I don't like them, it takes out the flavor of, "try to find the card" and "be creative and work with what you have". The whole reason Magic keep looking how to profit is cause lot of people using proxies, even complete proxy decks, just cause "who cares", and that off course makes a huge difference, if all people would be good with buying original cards, then this king of things would not happen. Not that I have anything against people who use proxies, is against the complete idea of proxy.

[@DCFatCat]

So are we going to bring that Promissory Estoppel lawsuit finally?

[@ashrog82]

Wouldn't you have to prove that there was a monetary loss as a result of the promise being broken?

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

It would never hold up in court. You can never tell a company that it can sell its own product. Just stop using the product.

[@DCFatCat]

Right so then what are we doing? like corporate lies is nothing new.

[@WittyCorvian]

No surprise when seeing that magic players aren't happy, i mean when are they happy? I swear that this playerbase is the most dramatic among the TCGs, i mean how many times have the doomsayers of this TCG said that one set, block or decision made by WotC was gonna kill the game just because they didn't like the set, block or decision, yet the game is still around If ppl don't like universes beyond or any other specific product, don't buy it, not everything has to meet the lofty standards of the few who will bitch about everything that isn't to their liking

[@deadizbetter]

I quit im done with magic. Sorcery here i come

[@Zyonide]

I've been playing magic for 11 years and I've always supported Wizards and bought their products. That changes now. I love this game so much but I'd rather see it die than continue to be in the hands of such money hungry suits that don't give a single damn about the players and fans. My money is better spent elsewhere, I will continue to play but only proxy my cards.

[@ankatham3559]

Well proxy it is. The next deck will be proxies only. Way cheaper

[@Fluffkitscripts]

“The logistics of such a thing would be…” Then WHY did you PRINT THEM in the FIRST PLACE?!

[@bristowbruh]

WOTC couldn't keep a promise if their lives depended on it lol

[@Gutmunchers]

This is such an excellent idea! Thanks for the MTG versions.

[@felipeormazabalmoraga7955]

Wizards lied? Whaaaaaaaaat?!?!

[@truenerdking]

Hey MaRo, tell me you don’t wanna give up any of that sweet, sweet Disney/Marvel/Nickelodeon money without telling me you don’t wanna give up any of that sweet, sweet Disney/Marvel/Nickelodeon money.

[@sAdam_II]

Old Rules Committee opened those floodgates by allowing Universes Beyond cards into Commander. Wotc gonna Wotc but Committee were the ones that were supposed to safeguard that part of community.

[@saw31489]

BINGO

[@kadinnui2282]

It's not on them. Keep in mind that commander is a set like legacy and vintage - anything flies as long as it's not banned. It's 100% wotc fault, stop trying to spread the guilt anywhere else.

[@sAdam_II]

@kadinnui2282 It's 100% my subjective opinion with no proof. I just feel that if they nipped issue in a bud, we wouldn't have this problem now, or it would be more manageable.

[@JanterCyrano]

​@@sAdam_IIif wizzard wouldn't print garbage we wouldn't be having this conversation, My subjective opinion with no proof, so we would be better, again subjective no proof

[@sAdam_II]

@JanterCyrano You are correct, but in my mind Rule Committee was supposed to be safeguard against Wotc garbage ideas.

[@linkplayshalo14]

Fear of missing out being a card in magic is hilarious to me and every new announcement just enforces that humor

[@GrandMasterAdieUK]

I was opposed to the secret lair distribution method from the start, as I felt they should be distributed through LGS ala From the Vault, and Spellbook series. The FOMO sales tactic always felt very predatory. So far I've only wanted to build Chun-Li, and waited for Zethi Arcane Blademaster to do so, but if they don't give us an avenue for mechanically unique secret lair creations then I will start to use proxies. Still missing the DnD movie cards (Doric, Edgin, Forge, Holga, Simon, Xenk and Themberchaud), Dr Who (14, 15, Toymaker, Rose and Meep), and Lara Croft. Usual scummy WotC tactics.

[@MuscleMTG]

I've been an MTG player for over 10 years. I've used proxies to Playtest competitive decks in the past. But a part of my MTG soul died when I started buying realistic proxies to permanently play with instead of the real thing. Just a heads up to those that really love the game.

[@danacoleman4007]

where is the best place to buy them?

[@MuscleMTG]

@danacoleman4007 lol google it or buy em off ebay

[@lucasdeconninck1232]

Thyra had two issues for me: 1) She's "the Blade of the Grove" yet she isn't green 2) She looks like an angel yet doesn't fly Otherwise, I love the idea. Maybe you should do a series where you invent new characters for UB cards with commissioned art. Why not try to fit them into preexisting planes? It sounds like a lot of work but that would 1000% be something I'd watch on this channel. Also if it's a popular enough idea, Wizards won't miss a chance to do it themselves and problem solved hehe

[@chrs-wltrs]

I dont care where they make it available, I'd just prefer not to have to commission art for my proxies.

[@archmagemechanic1]

Proxies! That is the voice the community is left with! We have to speak with our dollars, so use proxies everywhere. Stand up to the establishment with proxies of what you don't want to buy and actual copies of what you want Wizards to sell!

[@CeilingPanda]

I mean the problem is that they are short printed because it drives up prices that's the worst imo

[@cenasux]

"We've broken our promise but here's a new promise we definitely absolutely will not break, no further questions."

[@thomaspybus8468]

The proxies are great. They look awesome and have solid thought. Here's my problem. The point of the controversy is that wizards has made a product. A large number of it's base is unhappy with what is happening with the product. And the "solution" is to make our own cards? Why not just make our own game? This is the same problem coming out of Bethesda and other game developers. While I love the alters, we should not have to continue to save a game ruined by shortsighted, greedy, and frankly incompetent children (referring to pretty much everyone at WOTC). Still love ya brother and love all your content.

[@douglasalexander4005]

I'm not surprised that they lied about the universes within stuff. Hell, I called it the moment they made that promise that it was only gonna be a promise until people accepted universes beyond. What does surprise me is that, in the same thought that they lied about one promise, they had the balls to make another and expect us to trust them immediately again.

[@panik28]

WTOC doesn't care about the integrity of magic anymore. All they care is how much money they will get no matter how the product goes against their initial beliefs about what the game should be.

[@ComicBrains]

I was actually really excited about the Marvel Secret Lair set. I had my cart ready at 9:04am.. technical issues paused it at 9:06am. I waited for 4hrs as the site said do not leave this page and I was in line to purchase..... I Didn't get my items. Everything was being sold out during updates while waiting... what a freaking joke. But I'm sure WOFC made sure all the sponsors and Whatnot sellers got their orders..... just saying. Sorry to everyone who missed out!!!

[@loganreid3320]

What website do you use for making your proxies?