The Untold Story of JFK Jr's Fatal Plane Crash!

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This is the untold story of JFK Jr and the fatal pilot mistakes he made that got him, his wife, and her sister killed. The flight has been the source of endless speculation over the years and that's why I'm hoping to set the record straight on what really happened and the events that led to this tragedy.
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[@pilot-debrief]

Stop leaving yourself vulnerable to data breaches! Go to my sponsor aura.com/pilotdebrief to get a 14-day free trial and see if any of your data has been exposed. Here's a few facts I didn't include in the video: - John had to repeat a lesson during instrument training four times, but that lesson was about VORs and NDBs and had nothing to do with the reason why he crashed - nothing else in his training history suggested he was below average or a reckless pilot - Shortly after takeoff on that fateful flight, John almost ran into an American Airlines flight that was on approach to the Westchester County airport. John wasn’t talking to Air Traffic Control and the American Airlines crew had to maneuver to avoid the collision. The controller wasn’t able to get ahold of John and the truth is that if John had requested VFR flight following, he would have received traffic advisories and most likely avoided this, but he also would have had a controller to talk to throughout the flight that could have provided him with weather advisories and perhaps prevented this tragedy. - Ultimately, I think he just became too complacent, having flown the route numerous times and he overestimated his skill level in the aircraft and didn't realize how dangerous the situation was. CHECK OUT ONE OF THESE OTHER CELEBRITY PLANE CRASHES Buddy Holly's plane crash 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4KpgGmfqNSlfMk Lynyrd Skynyrd's plane crash 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZmwlH2lirOEjpI Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4jMd6Srbc5qhqs

[@cail171]

Thank you!

[@ImBlackjackYo]

You said " unfortunately if he had taken of when he originally planned... this tragedy most likely would have been avoided." Why is that "unfortunate"

[@publicenemynumerouno]

@@ImBlackjackYo I'm just guessing but it's probably the money taxpayers supplied to recover his aircraft to silence the conspiracy theorists. If you or I wrecked out there it would have been "ho, hum, wgasa?"

[@jamesofallthings3684]

​@@ImBlackjackYoBecause he didn't? Braindead.

[@Renato.Stiefenhofer.747driver]

Someone (lk9650) just wrote that every plane crash is caused by swiss cheese. I know, it sounds cheesy, but as a swiss citizen I agree. Question for Hoover and the NTSB: A small cheese has a hundred holes. A big cheese has a thousand holes. Does that mean more cheese results in ... less cheese? Regards from Switzerland. RS

[@anttiluode2985]

I'm not even aviation enthuastic, but I like watching these videos for some reason. It's still interesting to me. Keep up the good work!

[@CrippledKev]

same

[@1bradpickett]

You might then be an aviation enthusiast

[@anttiluode2985]

@@1bradpickett no need to make fun of my bad english. :(

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks, will do!

[@simpinainteasyRHEC]

@anttiluode2985 Don't worry about the hecklers, keep on working on your English. Truth be told, many whose first language is English can't speak or spell correctly. Lol such as myself. 🫂 🤗

[@Ficon]

“Just because it’s legal, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea” should be the motto of Part 91, written in large glowing letters across the dash of every high performance low hours twin. Thank you for your excellent analysis and I’m glad you are starting to pick up some sponsor money.

[@bartofilms]

But there was circumstantial ‘high strangeness’ involved. JFK Jr. was reported to have flown with a CFI when at night or when carrying passengers in the new plane. Clinton Bill was PotUS and JFK,, Jr had only recently declared that he’d seek a recently vacated NY State Senatorship. It ended upon being the SAME position that HRC eventually filled. George W. Bush was also in Kennebunkport or Martha’s Vinyard area at the time. 16:07 Other anomalies: No Flight Following, no records of en route comm’s, nor CTAF comm’s at destination, however there was at least 1 individual who came forward stating that he heard JFK, JR’s Reg. # in CTAF call outs at Martha’s. The USCG was not called out to search for the crash until the following morning and the USN was service that eventually dove on the wreckage & bodies. MISSING from the recovered wreckage?: The RIGHT SEAT of the Aircraft’s ELT. Yes, JFK, Jr. was P.I.C. He could have and should have cancelled that flight and gone over the next morning, or charted a commercial flight. Still, the circumstances around the crash and subsequent evens are suspicious. Keep in mind that every Presidentt since Nixon has claimed they would FOIA all docs related to JFK’s murder, but none ever has. The Magazine was called ‘George’ for a reason, and if anyone would have released the information to the public, it would have been JFK, Jr. ( or perhaps RFK, Jr., but his campaign was too easily scuttled.

[@berniemccann8935]

"... twin ..." ?

[@Ficon]

@@berniemccann8935 Complex high-performance two-engine aircraft that wealthy low-hours pilots love.

[@gregfaris6959]

@@Ficon A twin is not necessarily complex or high performance, and as @berniemccan correctly indicated, the aircraft in question was not one

[@Ficon]

@@gregfaris6959 I’m aware. More as a general comment than Part 91 is a zoo.

[@michaelfranklin4462]

Quick call. “It’s getting late now, let’s go out for dinner and leave in the morning “.

[@pamshewan9181]

Yes

[@adriaba790]

Couldn't because they had a wedding next day...could've hired a limo though😥

[@kirk2767]

@@adriaba790 Unless the wedding was really early, couldn't they have still arrived before it?

[@Ratlins9]

Let’s not forget, his instructor offered to fly them out.

[@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403]

@@adriaba790 I mean, they could have. Flying is just the most convenient. And I get it, once the plane is loaded up, unloading it and either going in the morning or, if they insisted on leaving that night, finding someone to drive them is very inconvenient and since he did that flight 35 times before, he probably never imagined there would be issues.

[@svenskanorsk]

He stopped flying because his mother was terrified of him dying in a plane crash. Only after she died did he pick it up again.

[@delilahboa]

That’s so sad…. 😢

[@motogirlz101]

The fact that an instructor offered to go with him that night and he rejected the offer is the truly sad part.

[@drdorann]

He had promised Jackie that he would not pilot a small plane.

[@994pt4]

Growing up I learned to ALWAYS consider my mom's intuition. More often than not it was right. 🤷‍♂

[@mrjombi]

That fits with the timing.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

This crash, and John Denver's, were the "water cooler" stories at our local FBO. Lots of conjecture, which mostly turned out to be correct, unfortunately.

[@duilawyr]

As the winner of the Dead Pool on Howard Stern who won 2 YEARS IN A ROW said! "I bet on dumb guys with pilot's licenses".

[@EverettLHill]

Hoover, I was hoping you would cover this one. I lived across the hall from John in boarding school and it was painful to watch how emotionally challenging it was to live his life. Thanks for not filtering your perspective on safety issues yet doing it with compassion.

[@mowtivatedmechanic1172]

Emotionally Challenging? Could you expand on that? (Genuine question)

[@isabellindlind]

@@mowtivatedmechanic1172 Thank you to the OP for your comments, (I can't post a comment under their name). I think John must have felt pressured or felt duty-bound for most of his life to enter politics, even by his own family despite I think he really just wanted to follow his passion for acting and there was nothing wrong w/that. He didn't choose to be born into the family he was and he didn't crave the spotlight that was directed at him 24/7, all his life. John was a kind man (and the most handsomest man on the planet).☺💓 RIP John and Carolyn and Lauren. 🌹❤

[@tamasbodnar1729]

Around the time this happened a magazine reporter went up in an airplane with somebody at night over the ocean the reporter was told to close his eyes for a period of time and when he opened his eyes his attention was directed at a white dot outside the window and asked to identify it he said it was a star, the pilot said no it's a boat in the ocean we're headed directly for the sea, the reporter couldn't even feel that they were going down this was done to demonstrate why it is important to be type rated for night flying and how easy it is to get disoriented.

[@ktinxx]

@tamasbodnar1729 Very interesting! Thanks for posting it!

[@davidmotter5140]

Baloney i there is no rating for flying at night , you have to have some night time to get your private ticket

[@scrubly_jr]

there's no type rating for night flying but it is extremely easy to get disoriented if you're flying over featureless/unlit terrain or large bodies of water

[@craiganderson5556]

When there is no clear horizon, night flying needs to be instrument flying.

[@toddsmith8608]

Dang, i better start studying for my night type rating. Can't seem to find any flight schools that offer it, though. I'll ask the local fsdo.

[@markbryan9989]

I have flown to Block Island, Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket many times. Fog comes in quickly on those islands. No VFR only pilot should make that trip at night. Night flying over the ocean should be considered conditions regardless of the weather. I have also flown the Cherokee 6. That is a lot of plane for a low time pilot. A lot of holes in that Swiss cheese!

[@JayGoTexas]

100%. I'll never understand why the FAA lets amateur pilots fly at night & over water without any instrument rating. How can you fly VFR on a cloudy and / or hazey night with no moonlight over open water. It's incredibly difficult to make out the horizon in those conditions, and while flying VFR, *the horizon is the most important thing*

[@bobsbillets]

@@JayGoTexas I've been boating at night on a large lake with a moon and with no moon. With a moon it's a piece of cake. You can see very good. With no moon? It is actually scary. It's scary because you cant see if there is any land there because it is all the same color - black. I can't image what it would be like in a plane under those circumstances and with his experience level.

[@Tomangel61]

Yup

[@brucejonsson3149]

@@bobsbillets It is eerie with overcast on a lake at night without any lights. There is quit a difference in a plane. All the obstacles are not at the exact same level. John had enough experience to know he was turning and descending - let go and the plane would level out. Why didn't he have the autopilot on?

[@HDSME]

My uncle was in charge of the Kennedy compound he was killed? And the found a a extra seat miles away sharks don't eat seats he was killed he was a shoe in to be president which was his plan! Guess who he would have run against killory!!!

[@johngood542]

A pilot friend of mine was flying VFR in the same area that evening, and noted the visibility issues. He also reported a slanting cloud layer that offered a false clue as to the true horizon: this twice had him making an involuntary turn before he figured out to disregard it and consult the artificial horizon. He believes this phenomenon contributed to the crash.

[@good1day726]

Interesting. And adding in possibly being momentarily distracted by a misdialed frequency.

[@Larry-mk9ry]

@@good1day726 Flying VFR in what were really IFR conditions meant he was gambling, using his passenger's lives as the chips.

[@good1day726]

@@Larry-mk9ry Yes. Neither of them seemed to be acting themselves and the unfortunate sister along for the ride, trying to provide support.

[@FrankPagan-d9k]

First I've heard about that out of all the research I've read about this crash. . And sounds reasonable too. 👍

[@eyesoars9212]

False horizons can create very powerful illusions, especially when other clues are missing. They're common near water, where lights on one side of a shore (lake, river, ocean) will create a false horizon, and they can be shockingly powerful. Instrument experience can help a lot, but isn't a guarantee against getting fooled, and it may take some time to realize what's going on.

[@gregoryknox4444]

I'm a retired Airbus Captain (30 yrs USAir/American) with 18,400 TT (3000 Single Engine, 100? in the saratoga/lance type plane) ..... THE NIGHT JFK JR. DIED July 16, 1999 I was a first officer flying a Boeing 737 into Boston that night. I had regular schedule of flying into Boston for a lng layover once a week, and from Boston the next night to Miami for another long layover. This particular night was so memorable because JFK Jr’s private plane was missing, attempting to fly at night, single pilot, single engine (nice plane), into Martha’s Island for a family function, a wedding I think?. The descent into Boston I commented to the other pilot how murky and eerie it was, no lights what so ever. Boston was reporting overcast, 4 miles, visibility, approaches to Rsy 27 and 31 were in use. 27 and 31 are runway headings, based on the 360 degree compass rose, to the nearest 10 degree mark. 27 = 270 degrees, 31 = 310 degrees, and when you had parallel runways, and extra letter for Left, Center, Right were used, so 32L, 32R etc. ATC kept asking us slow down, and “can you see the airport yet?” When we couldn’t see it he turned us away and sequenced for an Instrument approach, and he was frustrated. Visibility was no longer 4 miles. We made the approach and landing without incident. The hotel was a 5 star, and the whole crew went to the same hotel (later years we, the pilots, were no longer staying with the flight attendants). John Kennedy, a private pilot with NO instrument rating and only a few hundred hours, bought a very night complex expensive airplane. Complex means big engine, adjustable propeller, retractable gear. He usually had a flight instructor with him as a safety pilot but not this night. His instructor offered but JFK declined, probably didn’t want to inconvenience the kid with a long weekend, housing may have been an issue too. I believe he got disoriented while flying, it’s easy to lose your situational awareness at night, no lights outside, it’s called VERTIGO. It can lead into a loss of control of the airplane. It did. It sounds like he rolled upside down in a steep turn with the left wind striking the ocean first, crushing the roof of the plane. It sank in 120 feet of water. They didn’t find the plane for 4 days.

[@denisegore1884]

It was Rory Kennedy's wedding.

[@tommypandaland]

@@denisegore1884Never save money when there is an event,hire a pro to do jobs.

[@bruno84]

@gregoryknox4444 tell us more... it's really entertaining to read you!

[@bellboy4074]

you have never been an airline pilot

[@4Dangert]

​@@bellboy4074are you psychic 😮

[@Luv2Huvr]

On that night in 1999 I was flying as Captain in a US Airways Exp Beech 1900 commuter. I made two round trips ALB-BOS. Both approaches in Boston Logan airport required an ILS to get in. I can only imagine the lack of ground lights and being over water must have been disorienting for a non-instrument rated private pilot.

[@ElizzzaB]

Did you see that yellow rust fog from mid west factories, that rolled into east coast?

[@travelwithtony5767]

Aircraft don’t care how wealthy you are, what your social status is, or how famous you are. RIP.

[@TheApacheTrail]

what a silly comment

[@flybobbie1449]

@@TheApacheTrail A friend, not short of money, just sold Dallas Doll P51, sold business few years ago, just bought new home, retirement just about to get pension..his Cub nose dive after take off killing him. Funeral few weeks..

[@TheApacheTrail]

@@flybobbie1449 I am struggling to see how an actual airplane would see who owns it

[@thelonerizla1]

@@TheApacheTrail I think you're struggling full stop mate .

[@flybobbie1449]

@@TheApacheTrail Not the aircraft it's the attitude of the pilot. Some wealthy are risk takers, reason why they are wealthy. Unfortunately being risky in aviation gets you killed.

[@jimmydulin928]

Almost all of my night time was in Hueys in the Army with another pilot. Later i flew Ag and pipeline patrol in airplanes with little night time. I consider night to be IFR and two pilot. I know many Freight Dogs and such are very comfortable single pilot at night, but they have instrument (and now all those computers) situational awareness. It is scary out there at night guys/gals.

[@thelonerizla1]

​@shayjohnson5830 not according Dan Gryders figures on GA . Last two years have sightly improved.

[@utah20gflyer76]

Given proper decision making and planned correctly to minimize risk, flying at night isn’t much more dangerous than flying during the day. I’d suggest conducting night flights IFR or at minimum plan and fly the VFR flight precisely and use an instrument procedure to get you to the runway threshold. Night is no time for sloppy flying. That being said don’t risk stack. Night is one reasonable additional risk. Don’t add bad weather with icing risk or flying over mountains, fatigue etc.

[@tombstone4986]

I was air assault in the Army. Thank you for getting me n my squad in and out safely. 🙏 I had a Walkman playing Metallica on my headphones on some of my night flights and remember the static from the helicopters rotors lighting up under the rotors, that was always trippy to me, how it couldn't be seen from the enemy on the ground...

[@747-pilot]

@@utah20gflyer76Even though “night VFR” is LEGAL, doesn’t mean it’s PRUDENT! Personally, for me, at least, night flying is “strictly IFR”. Now, by that I don’t mean you have to file IFR and fly it as an IFR flight. *What I mean is,* the aircraft should be IFR certified, and the pilot should be instrument rated *_and current!_* In other words, _treat the flight as if it were an IFR flight, keep tabs on the instruments and be ready to use them if push comes to shove!_ And most importantly use all the resources available to you! If the aircraft has an autopilot, USE IT!

[@TheFULLMETALCHEF]

I hated night maneuvers. Back then no automated system just pilot skills.

[@theschmonkiboy]

As a non-native English speaker, I love your channel because you have a pleasant voice and speak very clearly. This is good training for me. Thanks for that. Warm greetings from southern Germany.

[@johanwithag2432]

Flying with family or other guest is dangerous by nature. They talk to you, asking questions, they distract you at the moment you have to concentrate and have to do complex tasks. They reduce your span of controle and you can't let them shut up. It's a major factor in private flying accidents.

[@bayridge99]

Really excellent point. Cheers form the UK where we get lots of murky weather, and the sensible non professional pilots don’t fly. As one of his instructors said, find the money for an airline ticket of professional pilot.

[@johanwithag2432]

@@bayridge99 Hi, thanks for your response. Same here in The Netherlands for the murky weathers. IMC flying is difficult, even for trained pilots.

[@estelleadamski308]

John's mother was NOT in favor of his flying & being a pilot. Jacqueline begged John to give up his idea of flying, and he didn't actively pursue it until she died. So sad!

[@moniqueh7948]

He was completely reckless and killed those women and himself. And Kennedy goons in the media spread the lie that they left late because Carolyn arrived to the airport late when in fact, HE left the office 3 hours later than planned and she arrived two minutes after him after he told he he was running late. Just tragic for everyone. The lives of the Bessette family were ruined and the Kennedy family has never been the same.

[@duilawyr]

She knew her son was a handsome dunce.

[@andrebello4191]

Its one of those things. Maybe she just knew that it wasn't a good idea for him. People just know things sometimes.

[@jimjam51075]

I have this heaven scenario where he pops up in front of his mom there 4 years later. "Look, mom...uhh...."

[@estelleadamski308]

@@jimjam51075 She 'probably said "If you listened to me, you wouldn't be here" LOL!

[@mmatejka01]

Another good debrief Hoover. You gave more information about him that I had never heard. Still, another unnecessary accident.

[@KansasWheatFarmer2]

Actually he got the story Wrong JFK JR was murdered

[@jwarmstrong]

@@KansasWheatFarmer2 Hmm... death ray from aliens , a dark matter shooter or Diddy had a party in the back seats which distracted JFK

[@karoleenascottage]

@@KansasWheatFarmer2. There are no coincidences.

[@gregjohnson2073]

​@@KansasWheatFarmer2 That's funny

[@protexroofing5939]

​@@gregjohnson2073what's funny?

[@augustingarnier4625]

As one mother told me shortly after the crash "I'm glad that his mother had already passed away for it would have surely killed her to have her only son die". They have a profound history of tragedy.

[@kwbrech]

I’m not a pilot and have no aspirations to become a pilot. But I find these debriefings fascinating and very informative.

[@williamdavis4542]

Good video and I agree with everything said. I can add a bit of detail. I was an instructor at the time and happened to do a live FAA Flight instructor Refresher Clinic shortly after the crash. The guy leading it was one of the accident investigators who was in the hanger where the plane had been moved and partially reassembled. He said on hitting the water, the three-blade prop bent back and wrapped around the cowling! Think about that for a minute. One of the blades sheared off the tops of all three cylinders on one side of the engine. They hit at something like 300 knots which is some 100 knots above Vne for that aircraft. I am left to image the howling sound they must have heard near the end. In regards to what he saw inside the cockpit, he said, "You don't want to know" and none of us pushed him on that point. Just imagine your wind-screen coming in at you at 300 knots. That's 100% indication of a death spiral. Spins are very exciting and lethal, but the descent rate (70- or 80 knots?) is nothing compared to a spiral which is a high speed event. An experienced pilot friend of mine and I decided to explore spirals at the time. They don't have you practice recovering from those for a good reason: you may not be able to! The rapid increase in G's was scary! We could easily image how encountering a spiral in the dark would be a very bad scene. Your airspeed is building rapidly, the altimeter is unwinding, so you pull... and it gets worse! Poof! Mind blown.

[@MrJeffcoley1]

Great debrief. One element that deserves more emphasis IMO is how quickly things went wrong at the end. From wings level at 2500 to impact was just 34 seconds.

[@daszieher]

This always seems forgotten. Quite a few crashes go from "still normal" to "all dead" in less than a minute.

[@kreterakete]

If sea is a mirror.. ok that’s maybe tricky or bad curse.. BUT every pilot would constantly and always stare at the altimeter, no ??? It’s the most important thing while flying. Nah, it’s strange coincidence and looks like sabotage to me.

[@royb.1441]

@@kreterakete he didn't need to look at his altimeter, he needed to look at his attitude indicator and or bank indicator. Only staring at the altimeter is exactly what caused him to pull back on the yoke and tighten the spiral.....did you watch the video?

[@Phoenixx5115]

​@@kreterakete ​ I survived a graveyard spiral over the Sierras when I was 20 on a cross country flight from CA to Utah... got into a cloud layer sitting on top the ridge, with a base about 500 feet above the peaks. I had just read a book on mountain flying and I did not want to try flying under the clouds because of the potential for mountain wave. It is the most helpless feeling when you are spatially disoriented. You don't want to believe your instruments.... which for me my attitude indicator was showing a diving left turn when I could swear I was straight and level. You don't want to believe your instruments!! Had that diving left turn not taken me out of the clouds I would have bought the farm like 90% of VFR pilots that get themselves into that situation. Lesson (painfully) learned.

[@vertical2210]

@@Phoenixx5115 You describe it very well. I experienced a similar situation when I was a military pilot at about the 700-800 hour point on a VFR flight, of course fully instrument rated. It was a flight in VFR conditions when we encountered a scud layer we attempted to stay below. I did not get an instrument scan going quickly enough and experienced exactly what you did - I did not want to believe the instruments and couldn't bring myself to trust them. Fortunately, I had a copilot with me at the time who took control. Otherwise it probably would have been lights out as there wasn't much altitude to recover. All that military training, including with vertigo and spacial disorientation, and it still took me by surprise. That was about 45 years ago. I continued flying since and never had a similar incident. I learned my lesson.

[@deborahbrottmiller2948]

John acted irresponsibly-but I think in his arrogance he thought he could handle it. From what I’ve read he was a risk taker like some of his family members. That’s fine but not when you’re carrying 2 passengers.

[@pam8056]

he had ADHD which also led to his behaviors that caused the accident - poor problem solving, impulsivity

[@jbsack]

@@pam8056and its been kept out of the records, but who know if he was on amphetamine for the ADHD and pain killers for the ankle fracture.

[@MommaZim2]

All 3 are still with us..had to fake their death..just like MJackson..Elvis..and 900 others faked death..matter of time before the world knows..although millions & millions know this..only if one has been looking for info.. Another part of this crazy world right now

[@goody2shoes384]

That is the real Kennedy curse - arrogance and not enough fear to stay safe and keep others safe.

[@gregfaris6959]

All his instructors indicate he was conservative in decision-making. It is far more likely he did not fully appreciate the risks that were present, and the expectations of his two passengers outweighed his own better judgement.

[@dr.nigelcool3771]

Could have hopped in the car and driven to Falmouth/Woods Hole and taken a ferry or other boat over to the island. Considering the amount of time it takes to get a private plane ready and to get everyone to the airport, I don't think a trip by land/boat would have taken that much longer than a flight.

[@JohnnyPerth]

?

[@dalereed3950]

True. But like any other pilot he needed the time and wanted the experience. Also with the girls being late, he was most likely pissed off.

[@NalaRichenbach]

I would have rented a Cadillac and drove up the old Post Road to the highway along the coast... straight drive.

[@28ebdh3udnav]

For convenience. For example, I live in South Texas. In the RGV. I know some who have private planes and they fly about 150 miles north to the next city. That usually takes about 1 hours from take off to landing but if you take a car ride from the city to the same city, it's about 1 hours and 40 mins, almost 2 hours if take breaks and if you miss a turn

[@lizdahl847]

Cuda, shuda, wuda😮

[@frecuenciasvariables543]

You’ve been benevolent to describe all the reasons why the odds were against him, Lauren was the unsuspecting victim. Was in New Orleans when then president Clinton ordered the coast guard, navy to search for the missing Saratoga. Bottom line simulator instrument time is close to worthless, he was a low time non instrument rated pilot unfamiliar with a high performance single engine aircraft. The pressure from Caroline and the wedding in addition to his own personal shortcomings made him believe he could make the trip at night safely.

[@HabuBeemer]

I'll disagree with your statement that flight sim time is worthless. You don't understand the prominent reason for sim training. It isn't to teach you how to fly the airplane. Its purpose is to teach you instrument procedures and it happens to be a better "classroom" to learn procedures in since you don't have the additional challenge of flying the airplane at the same time. You can then take the procedural knowledge to the airplane and fly with less stress. Started my career in aviation selling flight simulators to major airlines and flight schools. Still flying 47 years later and still using the training I got all those years ago. They do have additional purpose as well. You can fly repeated approaches as needed, position the 'aircraft' anywhere along the approach, pause the flight for analysis, etc. Saves a lot of time vs going to the airport and being sequenced in for only one or two approaches if the airport can accommodate you. And you can create any number of scenarios to add workload; weather, mechanical and electrical failures, fuel management, flight planning, radio failures, etc. I got my instrument rating in 1980 and I fly almost all my VFR flights on an instrument flight plan for several reasons but largely because it becomes second nature. I also have an approved sim at home that I train with regularly to stay proficient. I can fly upcoming trips in advance as well.

[@2whl4re]

Simulators are generally more difficult to fly than real aircraft, the huge difference being you don't die in one. Simulator time is very valuable, and very useful - they'll kick your ass and you can be mentally drained when you get out of one. And the airplane will seem easy in comparison.

[@jeffferguson4632]

Not watching the video....simple. Didn't have what it takes to fly hard IFR, and the govt and all the simp supporters wasted a few years trying to deflect the root cause away from the revered Kennedy. There, no video needed.

[@ShonMardani]

There was no eyewitness, no blackbox and no radar, how do we know about his maneuvers and turns before the crash? A faulty autopilot can cause the type of crash as well. We also should not forget that the same people who killed his father and uncle would want him dead as well.

[@daszieher]

​@@2whl4rethat there is exactly what sims are for.

[@Redtail_Pilot]

Ah, a day that will be forever etched into my memory. I was 32yrs old. That day, I was up with my CFI that afternoon, working on finishing up some lessons and preparing for my upcoming checkride. My flight school was at Teterboro (KTEB). Back then, there were two or three schools there (none now). Teterboro was (is) such a busy place (corporate jets) and Touch & Goes were prohibited. So, we would go over to Morristown (KMMU) and Caldwell (Essex Co.) to practice landings (T&Gs). I actually soloed at Morristown, several months earlier. At the time, I knew nothing about JFK Jr being a pilot, let alone flying from Caldwell Airport. I just knew who he was. That day was a typical hot, hazy, summer day. Although it was VFR (otherwise we wouldn't have been up), as a low time student, it looked almost like IFR conditions to me. I'll never forget my words to my CFI. I said... *"I'd be very uncomfortable up here if you weren't with me".* Actually, when I think back, I realize that it wasn't your _typical_ hazy day, it was much worse! When I heard about JFK Jr's accident, it freaked me out, but I knew that there was a lesson in it for me, so I pressed on with my training and got my PPL a couple of months later, Oct 2nd. I've learned quite a few valuable lessons from that experience, about knowing your limits, get-there-itis and having a plan-b when things aren't going as you expect. A few years ago, I flew into Martha's Vineyard. What a beautiful place to visit! A little trivia: We locals never say Essex Co. airport, nor is that the offical call when contacting ATC. The airport charts give you the tower frequecy and correct phrasology... *Caldwell Tower.* "Essex Co. Airport" is indeed on the documents, but it's not for ATC comms. The airport is actually 2nm north of Caldwell, in Fairfield, NJ. Another one of those weird things in aviation, I guess lol. Nearby Morristown and Teterboro airports are actually called by those names (the towns they're located in).

[@Redtail_Pilot]

Forgot to mention... GPS was in it's infancy and none of the school's fleet had it, nor glass cockpits, nor autopilots. I didn't have the luxury of using any of those things until well after I got my PPL. Although I'm a sucker for modern technology and love all of the fancy tools (love the Garmin G1000), in hindsight, I'm so glad that I didn't have access to any of it during my primary flight training. I learned on analog (steam gauges) cockpit, had to fold/unfold paper charts while maintaining control of the airplane, with rudder pedals, and most of all, I had to hand-fly the plane from takeoff, til landing. 😂 When I finally flew something with an autopilot, I thought I was dreaming lol.

[@alsecen5674]

I was flying the day this happened for the Civil Air Patrol doing Chesapeake Bay Patrol in coordination with the Coast Guard. We flew low and slow (800 Ft 90 kts) to look for boaters in distress. We circled the bay and cut across mid-bay at its widest point from east to west. The whole east coast of the US was in the grips of a summer heat wave and was very hot and hazy. As I crossed to the west coast, I lost the horizon. I had to fly for a few minutes on instruments. After I heard of the crash, I assumed he went over the water to get to the island and lost the horizon and shore. I guessed he thought he was heading out to sea thinking he he missed the island and tried to get back to the shore. The turns disoriented him and he entered a death spiral.

[@donallan6396]

Most of my flying experience was on the shore of Lake Huron .In the summer, on hot, hazy days, you could easily lose the horizon . At night or dusk , I would use the VASI and ILS even when the airport was solidly VFR. It wasn't hard to figure out what happened to John Kennedy.

[@georgeallensmo]

Been there scary

[@Lurch-Bot]

Inadvertent flight into IMC is fairly common and your odds of surviving it depends on how well you use your instruments. If you are always in the mindset of IFR, nothing can faze you. VFR at night should just simply be illegal.

[@polly8259]

@@Lurch-Bothow did he not notice his artificial horizon

[@ShonMardani]

There was no eyewitness, no blackbox and no radar, how do we know about his maneuvers and turns before the crash? A faulty autopilot can cause the type of crash as well. We also should not forget that the same people who killed his father and uncle would want him dead as well.

[@Zyzogg]

I remember when this happened. I had just gotten my instrument rating. I had a really good flight instructor. He could do a really fine job of inducing spatial disorientation and the airplane might or might not be in a good flight attitude. Look up and recover. With two passengers in the plane, one or both would be sitting behind him. A quick glance back, or down at a map and no visual cues outside, to me, this one screams spatial disorientation.

[@MrJeffcoley1]

Hoover didn’t clearly emphasize just how quickly things went bad. JFK Jr. was flying wings level at 2500 feet when he entered the graveyard spiral. He hit the water about 34 seconds later, likely never even fully realized he was in trouble

[@stevenaughton9372]

Do you have a ball on a string (or some equivalent) to let you know which way is up? I've seen this before but I don't know if it's something that works or an old wives' tale.

[@MrJeffcoley1]

@@stevenaughton9372 No, it doesn’t work. The string will show the apparent motion. Only gyroscopically stable instruments can maintain accurate measurements

[@terrymaggio2520]

@@MrJeffcoley1 So gravity doesn't work? If you're flying sideways what does the ball do?

[@MrJeffcoley1]

@@terrymaggio2520 It is thrown in the direction of acceleration. You can see it in your car if you have something hanging from the mirror. When you turn, it swings to the direction your body is pushed - to the outside of the turn. In JFK Jr’s death spiral it would be pointing directly at the floor, not towards the earth. Only a gyroscope maintains position relative to the earth regardless of acceleration. But, to your point, analog backups are a very important redundancy. Electronics are great but if they fail a mechanical device that doesn’t require electricity is literally a lifesaver.

[@bobradar2962]

Another thing worth talking about, with the injury to his left ankel, what about any pain killers he could have been taking?

[@2023_GJ]

We'll never know, because this stuff is covered up for rich/powerful people.

[@CanadianArchaeologist]

Perhaps that and had he been drinking the night out with the boys? He could've felt terrible.

[@Bearwithme560]

A few sources have said he carried a half bottle of white wine onto his last flight, so l wouldn't be surprised, but of course no toxicology results were published.

[@skyboy1956]

toxicology report is in the NTSB file. It's clean.

[@Lurch-Bot]

Could definitely have compromised judgment even if he wasn't physically impaired.

[@robinj.9329]

I see at least 4 RED FLAGS that should have caused this pilot to NOT attempt the flight!😢

[@gregfaris6959]

It's always easy to see those red flags through the telephoto lens of hindsight.

[@sarahalbers5555]

Like a big red banner behind the plane . He lived a charmed life but this was the BIG mistake that shouldn't have happened.

[@ktinxx]

@gregfaris6959 Why the negativity? Isn't the point of these debriefs the hindsight perspective? So that others may avoid making the same mistakes? And when someone identifies red flags, isn't that a lesson learned and "mission accomplished" for Hoover? 🤔

[@bobbisen]

I can imagine, once you get spatially disoriented, things can spiral out of control very quickly... even if after a few seconds you realize what's going on, it might just be too late to recover. Don't underestimate the risk of this

[@davidp2888]

I’ve always found this case fascinating. Thanks for the in depth analysis and explanation. I appreciate your content.

[@ivonekowalczyk5823]

" Just cause something is legal, doesn't mean it's a good idea." Great words. Thanks.

[@aries37]

I remember my Dad talking about the security when NTSB brought the engine into TEXTRON where he worked.

[@jimbobxcityguy5338]

My cousin was a ma state trooper dive team member who was on the scene. He was ordered not to speak about the incident.

[@sandhill9313]

Yet another example of a pilot not being clear headed about what "failure" means in this context. He wasn't just risking an "oh darn" situation, and a good mantra would be "our lives are on the line, should I risk them?"

[@andrewkelly628]

Thank you, Hoover, for another excellent post!!

[@kgmail7364]

Macho John boy. His wife did NOT want to go…she knew better. The sister egged her on and volunteered to go with her. I can only imagine what that conversation was like during the plunge into the ocean.

[@percyfaith11]

Can you really call a lot of screaming a conversation?

[@SpeakerBuilder]

This is the Mt Everest of all plane crash stories, glad to see you tackling it, I learned from another excellent video on this crash that John's flight instructor had offered to go with him on this flight and he refused the offer. After your thorough layout of his limited experience flying this plane at night solo, refusing the instructor's offer was crucial. It was also reported that other private pilots had canceled their scheduled flights in this region that night due to the weather conditions. The real sad part of this story is that this guy had mega resources to simply charter a flight or to higher a pilot to fly his plane for him. This is a classic case of get-there-idis, and a man's ego that won't accept his own limitations.

[@Userxyz-z2d]

He flew that route so many times. He was not meant to survive that crash.

[@trent3872]

Yep, he kept imagining himself standing around the wedding party, drink in hand, bragging to all the others what a cool guy he is, and saying, YOU SHOULD SEE MY COOL NEW PLANE.

[@wallemon06]

Excellent video. Hubris definitely played a major role.

[@rebeccamoon5766]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Jackie was extremely opposed to JFK Jr.'s flight training, so he gave it up and then started again after she passed away. Apparently quite a number of Kennedys and Bouviers had already died in small plane crashes.

[@pilot-debrief]

I hadn’t heard that about his training. That’s interesting and could very well be true.

[@Damien-q8t]

​@@pilot-debriefdying in a plane crash is rare.....well as Superman said about flying..."Statisticaly speaking it is still the safest way to travel"

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

If you want to read a crazy and tragic story look up the death of his uncle, Joe Jr. This alone may have been enough to make Jackie skeptical.

[@DavidStaab-zi3ls]

Yeah. That family does not have wonderful luck. Sad no matter your feelings on them tragic death not a good thing.

[@kneel1]

@@terraflow__bryanburdo4547 yeah that was my immediate thought too as far as the most famous Kennedy plane crash

[@Dan-gg8fk]

About 40 years ago as a low hour VFR private pilot I departed Bridgeport CT alone on a clear night with no moon visible. The stars were super bright that night. I loved flying at night and was ready for the trip back to MHT. I departed over the water and very soon I couldn't tell the difference between the sky and the water because of the reflection of the stars on the ocean. I glanced behind me and the shore lights were clear and visible. I did a shallow 'Aunt Martha' turn to the left keeping the nose level and the shore lights came into view. I received a very important 'I learned about flying from that' lesson that night. I survived and went on to be a police pilot and retired in one piece. Thanks Hoover and stay safe friends.

[@FLpatriotLady]

He should have never flown that night without an instructor. An avoidable tragedy.

[@markchapman2585]

I remember when this happened everybody was saying the Kennedy curse. I always said probably pilot error. Thanks for the great video

[@psrwhite]

Hoover I just joined your channel because I respect your knowledge and I find so much wisdom from you that I can apply to my every day life to be safer!! Thank you Hoover.

[@pilot-debrief]

Thank you so much! Welcome!

[@Starship007]

I trained in El Paso, Tx in the 70’s. Flying at night in the desert with city lights rare because of distances in Texas was very disorienting. Similar to flying over the ocean as sky and ground blend together.

[@Starship007]

Flying at night in a single engine aircraft especially 1990’s technology was a risk. Engine failures/instrument failures more common. Lots of crashes around Mt Franklin in El Paso with night flying and IMC.

[@marka8947]

Another example of the checkbook is thicker than the logbook.

[@kge420]

More so a case of get there itus. There was a wedding the following day.

[@thehiddendrive]

@@kge420 Flying is a prestige thing, I get it, but damn. He had the means to hire a car to drive him there, in which he should have hung out and relaxed with his wife.

[@waitaminute2015]

Last night I was awoken by a severe cramp in my right foot. When I got out of bed, i could barely put any weight on it. Until last night, I had no idea how debilitating that could be. I wonder if he had some kind of episode on his foot.

[@TOTAL457]

Over confidence is what kills a pilot too. I am so keen for Pilot Debrief to make an episode on the plane crash of one of the most successful cinema composers, James Horner - what happened to him? I was so distraught when he died because his music was beautiful and intense such as Aliens, Titanic, Avatar, Braveheart etc.

[@bigwaidave4865]

as well my favorite. the theme to "The Perfect Storm"

[@DavidStaab-zi3ls]

@@bigwaidave4865 I lived in Gloucester, Massachusetts for 10 years where the perfect storm was filmed if that is your reference. :-) Another tragedy drowning, no funner than crashing a plane and I am a licensed boat captain. Seen it.

[@sarahalbers5555]

What a great suggestion.

[@comradebish]

This is great, I'd be so interested in watching one on him from Hoover

[@simonflower6356]

Hi Hoover…may I suggest that you investigate the fatal plane crash of another scion of a famous American family? Richard Rockefeller (great grandson of John D. Rockefeller) died about ten years ago when he took off in bad weather, failed to gain altitude, and crashed into some trees. He was in his sixties and a much more experienced pilot than JFK Jr, but in addition to being a Rockefeller he was also a doctor - a double dose of arrogance. I went to school with the guy and he was so full of himself even as a teenager that frankly I’m amazed that he managed to fly for forty-odd years before digging himself a hole in the ground.

[@travmac86]

Alright, tell us how you really feel?

[@joebush1663]

Fame and wealth had it's privileges. The US Navy dispatched it's entire east coast fleet looking for Kennedy Jr.

[@bradcrosier1332]

Yep, I’ve often commented (very sarcastically) how comforting it is to know that if one of my flights ever goes missing that half of the U.S. Navy will be sent to look for me. What a crock of crap. It’s sad that his poor decision making led to this accident, but but the people I feel sorry for are the ladies and their families - not a trust fund kid who overestimated his abilities.

[@Hummerbird99]

Well all that wealth and fame didn't save him.

[@joebush1663]

@@Hummerbird99 He took 3 tries at the NY bar before he passed. he wasn't the smartest stump in the forest.

[@bradcrosier1332]

@@Hummerbird99 - If anything it probably bread the hubris/arrogance that led to the accident.

[@jimbobxcityguy5338]

@@bradcrosier1332 a tell all book by one who knew the kennedys said how john was not the guy everyone thinks. careless and not focused.

[@paulhendershott667]

I flew a few dozen trips from Danbury CT to Martha's Vineyard in the mid 1990's mostly in a Piper Archer and Cessna 182, but I did 4 or 5 flights in the same accident aircraft. Most of my flights to the island were at night after I got off work. I was a low time VFR pilot myself with about 270 hours at the time, so I was quite interested (and fascinated) to find out the reason for the crash, so I wouldn't end up falling prey to the same situation. In the summer months especially, the Long Island Sound body of water often created hazy conditions that turned a VFR flight into an IFR flight within minutes. The Haze crept up slowly until all of sudden you lost complete visuals of the ground and horizon. This happened twice to me on summer night flights to and from Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket Islands, and I did experience a few seconds of Extreme Anxiety each time, until I switched over to flying just the instruments. I could see how this route and situation could lead to spatial disorientation. I think the fact he was still experiencing pain and on crutches, caused him to fly with his good foot heavy on the rudder pedals creating a scenario where he was in "uncoordinated" flight, and put the plane into an inadvertent spin when he no-doubt pulled up hard on the yoke (often a pilots 1st response to losing reference with the ground leading to a stall and spin!). From ATC tracking I believe he entered a spin twice. Sad thing is that all he had to do was pull the power back, let go of the yoke, and put in a little opposite rudder, and the plane would have righted itself. When I got checked out in the Saratoga we did stall and recovery training several times, and the plane behaved just the same as the smaller Piper Archer and Piper Warriors. His bad leg likely made that recovery difficult.

[@scottschultz7645]

I loved night flying as a VFR pilot with an instrument rating. But I have turned around at night more than a few times because of low visibility. Night and questionable weather is a recipe for disaster, especially for a low time pilot.

[@pamshewan9181]

Jackie believed he was not serious enough to fly. He waited until she passed

[@slayer6936]

He let pressure over ride common sense. He shouldn't have never taken off. This was nothing but piss por judgment.

[@craigwall9536]

Yes. The girls had to pee and they nagged him to go direct instead of hugging the coast where he had lights on the ground to fight off vertigo. ALWAYS CARRY A H.E.R.E. BOTTLE.

[@josieann5031]

"The instructors didn't have anything negative to say about him" (2:44). I wonder if that was because he was a Kennedy.

[@JaydeRyan]

Doubt it. Flight instructors care if you're a good pilot, not about who you are.

[@wcavalier3]

The instructors likely found every excuse to not say he was mediocre...just like the guy leading this video.

[@alexstrazza4068]

A friend of mine was part of the search team that went looking for, and later found, pieces of the wreckage. He said it was a foggy and misty night and was shocked that a GA pilot would fly solo over the water and away from the coast that night.

[@lk9650]

It's an amazing fact that almost every plane accident is caused by Swiss cheese.

[@Renato.Stiefenhofer.747driver]

Every plane crash is caused by swiss cheese? I know, it sounds cheesy, but as a swiss citizen I agree. Question for Hoover and the NTSB: A small cheese has a hundred holes. A big cheese has a thousand holes. Does that mean more cheese results in ... less cheese? Regards from Switzerland. RS

[@raymondo162]

if cheddar ever gets involved - there'll be massive problems............

[@awg6397]

WE MUST BAN THE SWISS CHEESE!!! ITS DEADLY FOR AIRPLANES!

[@skyboy1956]

@@Renato.Stiefenhofer.747driver I've pondered the same question when I ripped a hole in my net - does it have more holes or less holes?

[@kreterakete]

What do you call a dinosaur made of cheese? Gorgonzilla

[@grundged]

The Kennedys in the news? Damn it. I need to get back 2 the future. Where did I park that DeLorean? 😮

[@keithh2755]

I flew VFR in Connecticut that very afternoon with an instructor. It was a course section conclusion “check ride” with the chief instructor and I remember telling him there is no way I would fly without him today given the thick haze. I even mentioned that VFR flying this evening wouldn’t be a good idea as we were discussing how open water at night with thick haze would easy disorient a VFR pilot. As mentioned, even if JFK Jr was above the haze layer, he would have difficulty looking ahead and down trying to find the rotating beacon and runway lights. After I earned my license, I flew VFR from the Hartford area to both Martha’s Vineyard AND Nantucket several times including twice at night always making sure it was CAVU. It’s a tragic story and I surely don’t want to sound arrogant but trust me when I say that NO ONE should have been flying VFR across Long Island Sound, over Block Island Sound and Buzzards Bay that night. The visibility was five mile at best I could barely see out the windshield over land DURING THE DAY in CT.

[@Redtail_Pilot]

As a student pilot at the time, flying that afternoon with my CFI....I concur! My flight school was at nearby Teterboro Airport. In fact, those were my exact words to my CFI when we got up in that haze!

[@abdulmismail]

When I took flying lessons in the US - when I lived in Casper, WY back in 1998 - we took 2 dual-lessons at night; one in the circuit and another, cross-country (to Cheyenne and back). However, here in the UK, there's a dedicated 5-hour (minimum) night rating course, which isn't a certification on its own as it's attached to the PPL. That said, it's not specifically to give you know-how to take off and land at night. It's more for, if your flight is running late and you end up landing after sunset, then at least you have the competence to fly in VMC but in low light. We also have an Instrument Rating (Restricted) - because the weather in the UK is unpredictable (i.e., rubbish) - which is s "UK-only" qualification which allows pilots to fly IMC but then after then, if you want a full IR, you can do a CBIR (Competency Base IR) to supplement the IR(R).

[@gregfaris6959]

I've always been astonished that the UK was able to suffer such a long period as part of the EU without the EASA dismantling their bizarre pilot certification system. I know the airline world in the UK was completely turned upside-down and inside-out by EASA, rewriting all the rulebooks and instating thousands of new regulations and procedures, and other countries like France had to fully integrate their PPL program into the EAA cursus, yet something as bizarre and idiosyncratic as the UK IMC rating was allowed to exist and still does. In a way it's a good thing, as any IFR activity by general aviation pilots is strongly discouraged throughout most of Europe, and the UK is as close as it gets in Europe to a population of pilots insisting they have a right to fly.

[@skyboy1956]

We have that in the US as well except it's 3 hrs. and includes a 100nm cross-country and 10 takeoffs and landings.

[@gregfaris6959]

@@skyboy1956 No you don't. No person is allowed to fly in instrument meteorological conditions in controlled airspace in the US without being Instrument rated and current and cleared on an IFR flight plan. Special VFR allows operation in conditions lower than basic VFR, but not IMC, and specifically clear of clouds. Controlled airspace designates Class E or better, which in practical terms is all airspace above 1200ft AGL, and 700ft in the vicinity of airports as designated on a sectional chart.

[@wayneyadams]

I will always remember JFK Jr. as the little boy standing next to Jackie Kennedy saluting his father's casket as it went by on the street. It is a heart wrenching scene.

[@HAL_NINER_TRIPLE_ZERO]

I've said it before, but I'm saying it again, the most dangerous period for a pilot is between 250 and 1,000 hours of flight time. You've gained confidence but often that confidence exceeds actual ability especially when conditions are not nominal. John didn't know where he was and he didn't know what his aircraft was doing. I doubt he ever knew he was in a bank. Dirty artificial horizon and never thought to look at his bank angle indicator.

[@merrywissemes]

I would have ended up exactly like them if I didn’t have an instructor on one of my night cross country flights while learning to fly back in the early 90’s. We did a flight from (06C) Schaumburg Airport up to Milwaukee in a Piper Warrior on a night of about 2500 overcast and haze. I was going to cancel and didn’t want to fly it, but my instructor said it would be good training for me. It ended up being the most defining moment of my short flying career. We made it to MKE just fine. After we landed and taxied back my instructor had us fly straight out over Lake Michigan for just a few minutes then told me to turn back towards the shore. I took my eyes off the instruments far too soon and started the same spiral Kennedy did toward the lake. I even remarked at what the streak of lights were “up above us” and my instructor said “that’s the shore you idiot. You’re going almost straight down”. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Mind you I also had my future wife and a friend in the back seat. I would have killed us all. He grabbed the controls from me and pulled us out of that dive about 500ft above the water. That’s when I knew I’d be a far better aircraft mechanic than pilot. 30+ years now as a mechanic and I haven’t goofed up….. yet. I’d still love to fly, but I’ll leave that to peoples whose brains work that way.

[@JP-wg3uq]

JFK Jr. , like too many others who have met the same fate, did not devote the time, seriousness, and attention to the safety requirements of flying. Flying airplanes beyond a point where a safe outcome is less assured is foolish. Other, more honest sources, have said he was not a confident pilot and the results speak for themselves.

[@sarahalbers5555]

Actually I read, from someone who knew his flying skills said, diplomatically, that he was not a natural pilot. He never should have turned down the offers to have an experienced pilot to fly with him. Those last few minutes were horrifying.

[@m.h.6499]

When I got my cast off, my foot and ankle muscles were so weak I could barely move my foot. I was shocked by the de-conditioning. I needed to get strong through Physical therapy. He apparently thought his foot was fine to fly, but I wonder.

[@sarahalbers5555]

I experienced the same thing. I did rehab and then committed to swimming laps to build up the muscles

[@No_ReGretzkys99]

I experience the same thing after a knee surgery in 2018 but also if he was on painkillers which would lower his inhibitions and take his pain away that would understand a little bit more of why he decided to do this flight as I'm a recovering alcoholic and drug addict with multiple years sober

[@pamshewan9181]

Unfortunately there are reports John stopped for a couple bottles of wine too on his way to the airport

[@m.h.6499]

@@pamshewan9181 Maybe to bring to the reception? There’s not much time to drink while flying; hope he didn’t indulge while waiting for the ladies and doing the pre-flight.

[@bigjeff1291]

@@No_ReGretzkys99Hi from a fellow hockey fan.

[@TheActiontkr]

At the time of the accident, the US government immediately thru every rescue resource available to find him. They would never spend that resource to find you. Absolute shit show. …. Great video!

[@ADAPTATION7]

That's absolutely true. Coast Guard, Navy, you name it. Back in 1999, I was a flight instructor when I learned about this event through the news. The only reason they put in so much effort was because of his last name.

[@veronicababy7959]

Did you notice the Coast Guard rescued a man and a dog from a boat just before Helene hit?

[@MrJeffcoley1]

I remember that as well. A shocking misuse of public money and resources. Everyone knew he was dead, pieces of the plane were already washing up on the beach at MV before the search started. The kicker? After the bodies were recovered they were BURIED AT SEA. What a shit show.

[@maxinef6654]

I remember when they were looking for them. It was an all day news show event.

[@metamorphicme9378]

Privileged to death!😢

[@saulnier]

It's hard to describe what flying during pitch black night conditions can do to your sensory perception. Many years ago, in a previous lifetime when I was a newly minted instrument pilot I took off on a moonless evening from Santa Barbara CA to Orange Co (SNA). I departed on runway 15 (L or R, I don't remember) and as soon as I had the airport behind me and climbed out over the Pacific the utter blackness gave me the impression I came to a complete stop, no perception of attitude whatsoever. It was a real eye opener I never forgot,. Even after my then fairly recent instrument instruction nothing can be as valuable as real-world experiences and having the discipline to adhere to your instruments.

[@CAPEjkg]

Always happens, you have money and buy a high performance aircraft with little experience. These pilots treat it like another toy and not a life or death machine. Very sad but very common.

[@stedydubdetroit]

💯 the Kennedy confidence gets these egos in trouble

[@Heathcoatman]

I also am skeptical about a flight intructors willingness to say 'he wasnt a very good pilot' due to his status and power. Not saying these instructors were lying, but I am saying just because someone praises a rich and famous person, doesnt mean they are being completely honest. Lots of reasons to not throw JFK jr under the bus.

[@mariaevans5793]

Kennedy was reckless and not the brightest button in the box. His overconfidence killed his passengers, and that's the bottom line .

[@Phoenixx5115]

@@Heathcoatman Right, saying publicly that he was "average" when it came to flying skills may indicate he was actually a bit below average.

[@larscederberg8564]

He should have left in the morning the following day instead also flying over water at night is very dangerous.

[@manifold1476]

thank you, charles lindberg

[@Scott767300]

Great explanation. Sadly This scenario has repeated itself over and over and over in the aviation world.

[@toastecmo]

I met Ms Lauren Bessette in Hong Kong when I was a mid career LT in the USN, attached to CV62, we had a 1 week port call in Hoing Kong in 1997 right before the handover of Hong Kong. One of my Navy friends on the ship had a friend who lived in HK and he invited a group of his friends from the Morgan Stanley office there out to the Bull and Bear bar and grill, Lauren was part of the group. She and I were sitting next to each other and we struck up a nice conversation and she told me to look her up in the states since I was transferring back to the states after promotion to LCDR and she told me she was heading back to the states. We spoke on the phone once in 1998 but our busy careers on opposite coasts did not allow us to plan anything. I was gutted when she was killed. I think of her a lot, such a smart woman. As for John Junior I will not put how I feel about him in these comments.

[@waynesilva3129]

I don’t think John truly understood the auto pilot.

[@jimford548]

Hoover, you do a great service. Thank you and keep up the good work.

[@alparkranger]

A small comment that JFK, Jr. was not President Kennedy's only son. He had a son named Patrick who, unfortunately, died 2 days after his birth in 1963. I would not mention this, but it was a shock that really affected both him and Jackie. He's buried next to his father in Arlington.

[@shawncorey1551]

sad

[@sarahalbers5555]

So very sad. I remember that.

[@Brian-kl1zu]

At the time; His only living son.

[@nigel900]

When your Ego and Obstinance exceeds your ABILITIES… 🙏🏻

[@cantthinkofone6995]

I’ve always wanted to see your take on this incident.

[@hughslaton]

Is the "significance of Lauren later in the video" comment about maybe them living if they didn't have to go to Martha's Vineyard? I thought it was going to be something else since you referenced her as mostly forgotten.

[@pilot-debrief]

Yes, that was the point I made at the end. If she hadn’t been on that flight, then a direct path to Hyannis Port would have been mostly over land and likely would have resulted in better visual references to know which way is up/down.

[@sarahalbers5555]

It's a big what if, tho

[@irongrl]

Lauren was trying to get John & Carolyn back together. John had moved out of their home and was living in a hotel. Lauren talked Carolyn into going on the flight and suggested that she go along so they could drop her off at Martha's Vineyard.

[@gogreen7794]

I have heard that his mother didn't want him to fly, so he quit. After her death in 1994, John decided to take it up again.

[@skyboy1956]

In 1973, Alexander Onassis, son of Aristotle Onassis died in a controversial light plane crash at the age of 24. Ari was married to Jackie at the time and she saw how he was impacted by the death of his only son which led to his own death only 2 yrs later. So yes, out of respect for his mother, Jr. mostly complied with her desire that he not fly light planes. Looks like her concern was warranted.

[@barbarachambers7974]

I always wondered what you thought of this particular mishap. Thank you covering this.

[@robertewing1552]

😅Fuel imbalance could have been a contributing factor. In the PA32 the outboard tank would be used first causing a massive imbalance. The King autopilot would have held the wings level but upon disconnecting said autopilot it would be near impossible to keep to wing level at night in low visibility with no horizon line. His prior aircraft was a C182 which is normally flown with the fuel selector in the both position keeping the wings level. If he didn’t remember to switch tanks spatial disorientation would be probable. In VFR day I’ve found it almost impossible to keep the wings level in such an imbalanced State without the use of an autopilot.

[@CHICOB4261]

I began learning to fly at the tender age of 17 in Waukegan, IL. My uncle who was a WWII flight instructor and also began his time at the Academy at the age of 17. My uncle gave me some of the best advice and wisdom of my life. He told me there are two rules a pilot must always follow with out exception (in the civilian non war time) he told me rule #1 “you never have to take off” rule #2 “you always have to land” of course when I was 17 I did not truly understand or appreciate the wisdom of his words. My uncle stopped flying at the age of 87 he told me he was getting too old and he was losing some of his skills! Ha, 87 years old! My uncle, who was my father’s best friend, died at the age of 93 a few days before his 94th birthday. I would truly understand the wisdom of his words much later in life. My uncle’s words remain with me to this day. I loved my uncle and he was a rare pilot who lived a long life following those two rules. He started flying in open cockpit biplanes in 1938. He flew many different aircraft in an incredible time in aviation. He owned and flew a Pitts S2 when he lived in Puerto Rico. He raced against Jimmy Doolittle in high speed aircraft. He was close friends with many greats in the flying world like Max Conrad, Art Scholl and Jimmy Doolittle. My uncle was a graduate of the Peruvian Air Force Academy and graduated first in class in 1943. My uncle came to the United States and could only act as an instructor to military pilot trainees because Peru was neutral during WWII. He would have an ace for sure if he could have joined the fight. In his memory and with great love and respect…

[@libertine5606]

There's a reason that a commercial pilot without a instrument rating cannot fly over 50 miles from the home airport or fly at night. As a commercial pilot you have shown skills above that of a private pilot and yet they don't want you to go over 50 miles since you are more likely to encounter weather or at night where you can have this scenario. Even scattered clouds at night can be a killer. If you can't see them you can't avoid them. Any pilot without a instrument rating or not able to bring their A game with a instrument rating should think really hard about flying cross country at night. The FAA gives us a lot of freedom as pilots and it is up to us to make sure we fly responsibly. Before I got my instrument rating I was flying from Laughlin to Palm Springs at night. I did everything I could to make sure that the ceiling was high enough that it wouldn't be a factor. I had preplanned that if anything seem weird that I would immediately turn back and land. As we flew along there was a very high stratus ceiling. As we were getting close to Palm Springs my passenger said that it was raining. I looked to the wingtip and in the strobes I could see the rain. I immediately turned off the strobes and said to her, "No, it's not!" I made sure that there could be no distractions and I kept my eyes glued to the Artificial Horizon, altimeter, turn and bank, Directional Gyro, and airspeed! Until I could see the lights of Palm Springs that instrument panel was my world!

[@skyboy1956]

A commercial pilot can fly as far as they want or anytime day or night. However, they can NOT fly for HIRE at night or greater than 50 miles from the home airport. FAA is protecting paying passengers and property, not the pilot.

[@libertine5606]

@@skyboy1956 Well, I guess that would go without saying. I don't think that any of us would take a written, pay for instruction, pay for a check ride, just so we would then be limited to 50 miles and then not be able to fly at night. Duh! My point is the FAA is saying that these things increase the risk and we don't want a pilot, who has just demonstrated a increased skill, to expose paying passengers to it. And I am saying that if the FAA is saying that these are higher risk then we as pilots should consider that too. Yes, you are free to go out and kill yourself. Heck, you can kill your passengers, too. If they are willing to get in a plane with you. But, as I said before, a responsible pilot should understand that these things increase the risk and shouldn't be taken lightly.

[@skyboy1956]

@@libertine5606 Commercial certificate w/ no instrument rating is in nearly every ag pilot's pocket. Here's a kicker to that. I know ag pilots that spray at night. So they operate for hire at night. Some do have an instrument rating, but the plane is not equipped for instrument flight. Those regs are violated daily yet the FAA won't touch it.

[@DrPhilBrewerMD]

I was on Martha's Vineyard at the same time as the crash. I had just purchased a Piper Lance, an earlier model of the Saratoga. On the night of the crash my wife and I were walking on the beach at Oak Bluffs and I pointed out to her that, because of the haze, you couldn't discern the horizon as the sky melted into the ocean. I mentioned how dangerous this was for night flight. Little did I know that this would play a role in JFK Jr's loss of orientation and crash. I learned of the event the next morning when I arrived at the Martha's Vineyard airport to fly my mom to Rhode Island. The airport was crowded with news helicopters and search and resue aircraft. The first pilot I encountered explained, "JFK Jr went down last night."

[@Redtail_Pilot]

Had I not been up with my CFI earlier that afternoon, from nearby Teterboro Airport (a few miles from where he took off from) and experienced the worse haze on any VFR training day of my flight lessons, it would be easier for me to believe all of the ridiculous conspiracy theories LOL. I'll never forget telling my CFI something to the effect of.... *_"I'm glad you're up here with me, because I'd be very uncomfortable in this haze solo"_* Funny how the "cia", "Hillary" and the cookie monster all chose the worse possible summer, hazy day to take him out. 😂 Got my PPL on today's date that year! 10/2/99 😊

[@bryantturner97]

The entire aviation community from day 1 has always handled JFK's crash with kid gloves which his quasi-royalty status granted him. Any other pilot would have been dispassionately singled out for his lethal bad-decision making in his refusal to accept help from others or to adhere to the advice of more experienced pilots placing his get-there-itis above the safety of all concerned. I hate to say it but this sounds to me as if he may have been a reckless pilot and an accident waiting to happen.

[@ambds1975]

Oh, I remember this. :( The whole state was glued to the TV for days. Thank you for doing an episode on it.

[@robgrey6183]

This man had the money to have someone on call to fly him anywhere, at any time. Literally. And it would not have affected his lifestyle one bit. He could have confined his own piloting to recreation.

[@bertg.6056]

I remember when I first heard about the crash, and at that time I was starting IFR training. My first thought was "graveyard spiral". A tragic loss, and most certainly an avoidable one.

[@darksidemachining]

Great Video. As you had mentioned in a past video about the Nelons and the Bramlage families, though the high performance complicated plane you are flying can be flown with a single pilot, it might be a good idea if you can have a second pilot fly with you to cover some of the workload. In John Junior’s case his ego may have gotten the best of him to show the women he can handle the plane without any help.

[@jimbtv]

Keep in mind that what started out as a flight into dusk conditions turned into a full-blown night flight. The offer of a second pilot was likely made when the original flight plan was in play and the decision to rethink the offer fell back in the clutter of his decision process. A new plane, flight at night, delay after delay in getting off the ground, the pressure of promising to drop off the sister and make it to the wedding... I don't think ego was a primary factor in this tragedy. Knowing when to pull the plug on making a flight can be difficult. This is why pilots create a conditional checklist that takes all these factors into consideration and tosses a red flag when different conditions are met.

[@skysurferdude]

I woke to the news that JFK JR’s flight was missing and flew that morning from Maine to Prince Edward Island Canada in a GA aircraft. The haze was very thick at low altitudes requiring reliance on instruments to support any cues to the natural horizon I was able to maintain. And this was in daylight over land. While visibility at the surface may have been technically vfr (>3sm), conditions aloft were virtually IMC. As Hoover explained, add night and flight over the featureless surface of the ocean and you are definitely in conditions that require flight “solely by reference to instruments” I’m very confident that JFK had no intentions of doing any flying solely by reference to instruments on this trip. In the final moments he was trying to control the aircraft by reference to what he was incorrectly perceiving as the natural horizon (perhaps a cluster of stars or a light on the surface). By the time he realized he would need to employ his limited instrument skills to maintain control of the aircraft, the spiral was so fully developed it was unrecoverable. It was a classic case of VFR into IMC. Horrible tragedy!

[@grannyblinda]

He started with an intelligent and cogent flight (daylight conditions, tho tail end of) plan that would have worked within his capabilities and experience. It all changed as 1) he was late ... 2) his wife's sister was late 3) his wife was late... and suddenly, it turned into a VFR night flight. He didn't want to miss the wedding and it was now too late to make the wedding by car or other. SO, the pressure was tremendous...tired, all of the changes, insecure, two women passengers, tensions, late, visibility poor and worsening, over worked/loaded...such a bummer ...lots of lessons for all of us who fly...

[@alberttang6955]

And he was on crutches from his ankle injury. JFK Jr also suffered from ADD and Dyslexia his entire life. At one point he flunked out of his prep school for poor academic performance. As an adult he was often described as impulsive, easily distracted, and unable to focus on any task for a long period of time. An even greater recipe for disaster when these characteristics are added to the already immense pressures you listed.

[@emmettjones5165]

Thank you for this, Hoover... That picture of John saluting with his daddy's watch on his wrist at his father's funeral haunted me and gave me a measure of hope for many years. He was the one good thing that came out of all of that, and my first thought was of his Uncle Joe when I heard about the crash. I had no idea he had that little IFR time in-type. Thank you for lining up the holes for us on this.

[@chopperskier]

This happened about a week before my PPL checkride. We talked about it AD NAUSEUM, but was the most formative experience in my entire 25 year aviation career! Just foolishness- in Europe, their "Private" pilot's license is the equivalent of after we pass our instrument add-on here in the states. Just like our drivers, we pass out pilots licenses like giving away candy. PPL should include WAY more instrument training, if not the entire instrument add-on. We have way too many people with only a PPL mucking it up in the skies! As a Medevac pilot, I cannot tell you how many times I couldn't land because someone didn't know what they were doing and trying to land without obeying traffic rules, trying to land at us head on on the opposite runway, or flat out just not listening to the radio! We're always classy and talk it out on the ground in a calm manner, and the person usually realizes their mistakes. Luckily, we've never been in a "Critical" lifesaving situation when this occurs, but someday it will happen! Our PPL's are simply not skilled enough for anything other than a local day flight. Sorry if this offends some PPL's- go get your instrument rating! A good pilot never stops learning, and if you've only held a PPL, and have held it for years, then you aren't learning! Flying is a lifelong endeavor in learning- not a "I passed!" event!

[@skyboy1956]

can't regulate judgement

[@jpdunamislodge]

I was pounding 135 freight at the time of this incident flying twin Cessnas. My thoughts at the time were very low time pilot, new hot rod airplane, and I just knew that spacial disorientation had got him. I have only experienced that one time in my 22,830 hour career and it had just happened to me about three months prior to this incident. I literally had to force myself to fly the instruments for about 30 seconds until it cleared. That “feeling” goes totally against everything that you’re seeing on the gauges and you do have to “force yourself” to not to give in to it.

[@rtqii]

I never would have clicked on this... But the creator is first class, so I am looking forward to new information.

[@pilot-debrief]

I hope I was able to tell the story in a way that you haven’t heard before and possibly presenting at least one new piece of information while sharing my perspective.

[@crisprtalk6963]

After all these years how can any part of the story be untold? I don't get it.

[@Randomly_Browsing]

He explains to you what most people don't know

[@KillerQueensRyche]

This was huge when it happened but also it's been 25 years.

[@douglasb5046]

Yup. Nothing new here. Yawn

[@Hummerbird99]

I learned that this accident was actually caused by Swiss cheese.

[@mbspoobah]

Ex Navy flyer here: Chocolate Brown Haze is lethal and is not at all understood by novices to be as totally disorienting as it is. Until you have experienced it, it is hard to comprehend. It is actually much worse than true IMC flying. His mistake was in not understanding that the conditions into which he was flying , while technically VFR, were so much worse than instruments flying because of the induced disorientation they create when looking outside of the aircraft as he was to do flying VFR. Nasty nasty nasty.

[@resipsaloquitur1832]

I remember very vividly when this happened. My first thoughts were this poor family. Great content!

[@P51]

great debreif--i didn't hear anything untold however

[@pilot-debrief]

I tried my best to present at least a few details that most people wouldn’t be familiar with and my perspective on this event.

[@P51]

@@pilot-debrief gotcha. nice job 👍🏾

[@candyjamaican]

That’s his ‘thing’ I see, use words to pull view and words to keep us watching and waiting and watching.

[@kentbetts]

@@pilot-debrief Well, one thing I learned was due to viewer comments. I had always figured that it was a light haze that was increasing, and visibility was about nil. Comments here from several pilots who were in the area that day indicate it was the worst haze of the year. Wow.

[@waynenocton]

I’ve crossed Lake Michigan several times when leaving the Oshkosh event, in the daytime with varying visibility but all during VFR weather and even with all that, it was impressive how quickly the horizon disappeared, I can imagine how quickly it would get bad at night and with haze.

[@Lee-mx5li]

Not sure where you got John's flight training info, but the podcasts with direct interviews with his instructors paint not so good skills.... furthermore you missed identifying that prior to take off, his local instructor was at airport and tried, insisting to John to let him go with them as advisor given John cast AND INSTRUCTOR WASN'T CONFIDENT WITH JOHN'S NIGHT FLYING

[@davidmotter5140]

Night flying is not difficult except when visibilty is limited then all bets are off time to follow the coast or wait till tomorrow

[@davidwhite8633]

Maybe there wasn’t a spare bed for the instructor there, what with all the wedding guests! Could have played into John’s decision unconsciously?

[@igclapp]

​@@davidmotter5140Night flying can be a problem even if visibility is CAVU if you have no or limited lights on the ground to orient you.