The US Interstate That Doesn't Exist

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Beaver Geography

Beaver Geography

Күн бұрын

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@BeaverGeography
@BeaverGeography 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the absence, the channel has slowed down a ton in views and instead of motivating me to make more videos and get it back on course, it has done the opposite. As always, the best way to help out is giving me video ideas, so if you could reply to this comment with anything interesting you think would be a good video, id appreciate it A TON!
@AIDNRattlehead
@AIDNRattlehead 2 жыл бұрын
I got an idea: Something about the spur route I-375 (the one in Michigan) and why it even exists or counts as an interstate, it more counts as an intrastate spur than an entire route, more though, why is it so short?
@caleer8567
@caleer8567 2 жыл бұрын
For what it is worth I been liking the vidoes
@davidredmond6968
@davidredmond6968 2 жыл бұрын
How about the dual exit numbers in Pennsylvania??
@josephdurnal
@josephdurnal 2 жыл бұрын
Content idea - two I-695s within 30 miles of each other, Washington DC & Baltimore
@JL-sm6cg
@JL-sm6cg 2 жыл бұрын
There's a few you can do with California I would love to see; One, why they didn't number their exits anywhere (including in the Interstates) until 2002, and why they still don't use proper mile-markers on ANY freeway. Two, why a lot of Californians call their freeways by their original names, rather than by their route numbers. There are probably a lot more one could do about California freeways, like how a number of them pre-date the Interstate system (which has something to do with why the exits weren't numbered all those years).
@sammymarrco2
@sammymarrco2 2 жыл бұрын
so much of downtown is just parking lots, which is so weird to me, also the ring of highways around downtown looks like its strangling it.
@kevbarnes8459
@kevbarnes8459 2 жыл бұрын
Welcome to the urbanist community.
@Sevenswords777
@Sevenswords777 2 жыл бұрын
It is strangling
@SauceBoss14
@SauceBoss14 2 жыл бұрын
It’s to keep Greenwood out of the prospering economic zone
@eryngo.urbanism
@eryngo.urbanism 2 жыл бұрын
Tulsa definitely has some... quirks
@jlpack62
@jlpack62 2 жыл бұрын
Well, when you build your entire infrastructure around downtown to encourage lots of cars coming to it, they gotta park somewhere. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
@michael-hd7vy
@michael-hd7vy 2 жыл бұрын
If I were to guess, I would say that Tulsa doesn’t expand to the northwest because the county to the northwest is an Indian reservation, which might not allow for suburban sprawl
@jeremywc3576
@jeremywc3576 2 жыл бұрын
Osage
@danieldaniels7571
@danieldaniels7571 2 жыл бұрын
yep, that thing. the sprawl around Phoenix stops in two directions for the same reason.
@franksantore2810
@franksantore2810 2 жыл бұрын
Michael you are exactly correct.
@SnoopySnoo
@SnoopySnoo 2 жыл бұрын
yeah the osage reservation is the only reservation in oklahoma with significant autonomy, so they can just say that they don’t want tulsa in their borders, and that’s what happens.
@Default78334
@Default78334 2 жыл бұрын
Technically, all of Oklahoma except for Oklahoma City is an Indian reservation.
@mxderateprod
@mxderateprod 2 жыл бұрын
There are a lot of unsigned Interstates throughout the entire system. Examples: I-345 - Dallas, TX I-444 - Tulsa, OK (as you mentioned) I-878 - New York, NY I-296 - Grand Rapids, MI (as you mentioned) and a lot more
@jeremywc3576
@jeremywc3576 2 жыл бұрын
444
@Sylox95
@Sylox95 2 жыл бұрын
I-595 (US 50 from 95 to Annapolis, MD) comes to mind as well
@OreotheMiataSomething
@OreotheMiataSomething 2 жыл бұрын
Also Interstate 478 In NYC
@mxderateprod
@mxderateprod 2 жыл бұрын
@@Sylox95 True.
@dvferyance
@dvferyance 2 жыл бұрын
I-124 in Chattanooga. Was once signed.
@Roadklahoma
@Roadklahoma 2 жыл бұрын
The roads were never signed I-444, the only physical signage of the interstate was during construction, suggesting that it would be signed as such, I remember seeing those signs at the time when I was a kid and later wondered why 444 shields never showed up when the highway opened. The reason why it wasn't signed was correct, however, too many concurrencies with other existing highways, as well as to avoid confusion with 244. (The matter is all academic, though: when talking about this loop the highway numbers are hardly ever mentioned at all, instead they'll say, "NW corner of the IDL", "east leg of the IDL", etc.) The exit numbers were based on I-44 from Oklahoma City, because at the time that IS where I-44 started (at I-35), it wasn't extended into Wichita Falls until 1982. I-244 also followed those numbers, because this was when Exit Numbering was first becoming a thing, and the exits along I-44 hadn't been numbered yet. Tulsa, specifically what is now the downtown area, began at an angle so as to parallel the train route through the town at the time. If you look at the map you can see a path continuing NE out of downtown at the same angle: that's the original train route. At some point (in I believe the 1930s) city planners decided that future expansion would follow normal compass directions. Also interesting: I-44 in Tulsa was actually built before the Interstate Highway System was created, as a new path for US-66 to BYPASS Tulsa. As you can tell, city expansion kinda kiboshed those ideas.
@nicodarsh
@nicodarsh 2 жыл бұрын
I'm from Northwest Indiana in Chicagoland, and one of my favorite stories about highway infrastructure was when the Indiana Toll Road Association went against agreements already made between them and Chicago where they would connect their toll road just south of city limits. Instead they ended the highway right on the border of Illinois and Chicago heading into an urban residential part of the city. It forced their hand and led to the Chicago Skyway, one of the most infamous toll roads in the country. As an ex-local I despised that toll road and literally never took it, just taking I-94 through and into I-90.
@maxswagcaster5315
@maxswagcaster5315 2 жыл бұрын
Paying cash on the skyway at rush hour is like going through customs at the border to go to another country
@mr.oblivious1
@mr.oblivious1 2 жыл бұрын
I also take I-94 over the skyway, takes the same amount of time and you don’t have to pay $12
@furnitureconsortium
@furnitureconsortium 2 жыл бұрын
@@mr.oblivious1 The Skyway…. In my experience, it saved a few minutes coming into Chicago…..saved a ton of time leaving Chicago and going to Indiana! There’s nothing like going over the Calumet River coming into Chicago on the Skyway and seeing the downtown skyline in the distance.
@ZiggyTheHamster
@ZiggyTheHamster 2 жыл бұрын
I'm from Tulsa originally, and "why didn't Tulsa expand to the northwest" has two answers: - northwest is Osage county, and in particular the Osage Nation Reservation - north was the community of Greenwood, more popularly known as Black Wall Street, and Tulsa was highly segregated when Tulsa initially expanded Expansion to the northwest didn't occur until the US started its Indian Termination Policy and expansion to the north is limited due to historic redlining policies and the still commonly held belief that North Tulsa is bad because of the racial makeup of the people who live there. Read up on the Tulsa Race Massacre if you want to learn more about this history. You'll note that the IDL was way more disruptive to the communities in the north than it was in the south - there's tons of vacant land on the north leg of the IDL because it was easy to justify destroying buildings there than it was in the more wealthy southern end, even though they didn't need all of that space to build the freeway. This is also why it runs under streets on the south side and over them on the north side.
@reedermh
@reedermh 2 жыл бұрын
And for music fans the streets of Greenwood, Archer and Pine are memorialized in one of the greatest funk bands of all time, the GAP Band.
@johnmccallum8512
@johnmccallum8512 2 жыл бұрын
I was going to mention the discriminatoey policies re- the building of this hiway but you beat me to it.
@295g295
@295g295 2 жыл бұрын
1:04 - I like Yt videos made by a beaver. Congratulations on your success.
@bradleyscheid7888
@bradleyscheid7888 2 жыл бұрын
I-296 did still show up on Mapquest as of about 10 years ago at least. I had someone ask me for directions to I-296 based on their printed directions. Growing up in Grand Rapids, I had never heard of it and had no idea what to tell them until I looked at the map that they had printed and realized it was concurrent with US-131.
@seancallahan5612
@seancallahan5612 2 жыл бұрын
I also live in GR and have never heard of I-296
@brianmiddleton2956
@brianmiddleton2956 2 жыл бұрын
I-296 still exists, but not on maps nor signs. It is a secret, unsigned route internally within MDOT.
@rylencason4420
@rylencason4420 2 жыл бұрын
1) Why is Tulsa's NW open and not developed like the SE? A) The NW is a part of the Osage Nation/Reservation, which is the same as Osage County, which is the largest county in Oklahoma. They did not want city development and also the NW side of Tulsa is hilly and not good for development. Ponca City, OK has this exact same issue. 2) Why is the grid system different in Downtown? Railroad, older parts of town set by the railway when it wasn't a city then they expanded to be a normal E-W-N-S grid system overtime. Norman, OK has the same situation before it developed into the 3rd largest city in Oklahoma (Tulsa is 2nd, OKC is 1st).
@buckeyeguy82
@buckeyeguy82 2 жыл бұрын
I've noticed quite a few cities have a grid design for downtown areas that may face a different direction than the rest of the city. And I think that has to do with either railroad placement or cities built near rivers, but I'm not sure about Tulsa. From the map the IDL looks like it wasn't planned too well.
@robertwhall
@robertwhall 2 жыл бұрын
Denver is like this also
@eryngo.urbanism
@eryngo.urbanism 2 жыл бұрын
You got it in one, Tulsa's diagonal grid is based on the railroads that pass through downtown. Which only makes me sadder about the fact that Tulsa hasn't had any kind of passenger rail in over half a century.
@wwsciffsww3748
@wwsciffsww3748 2 жыл бұрын
Atlanta's downtown grid is different from the grid in midtown and other surrounding areas. The notable thing is that the grid just isn't very large considering the size of the city
@chefssaltybawlz
@chefssaltybawlz 2 жыл бұрын
Houston for the most part too. Built on the bayou but the rest of the grid is north south east west.
@mabybee
@mabybee 2 жыл бұрын
@@eryngo.urbanism back around 2014, Iowa Pacific was trying to startup a route between Oklahoma City and Tulsa along the Sooner Sub before dropping out and their partner, Stillwater Central, attempted to continue test runs before it eventually all fell apart. The route was going to initially run between Sapulpa and Del City with future intentions of extending the termini into the the downtowns of Tulsa and Oklahoma City, which would’ve brought passenger rail back to the Union Depot in downtown Tulsa. This next part is about Oklahoma City, not Tulsa. It probably would’ve used the Santa Fe Depot in Oklahoma City since that is already used for passenger service and is going to become the intermodal transit hub for the city and metro, but I liked to imagine that they would use Union Station as it sits along the tracks that actually run between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, whereas the Santa Fe Depot is on the elevated tracks heading north towards Wichita and south towards Dallas/Fort Worth, but also because I think it’s a more beautiful station. It hasn’t been used for passenger service since 1967 when both Rock Island and Frisco stopped running passenger routes to it that connected it to cities like Memphis, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Amarillo, and obviously Tulsa, so I just really long for passenger service to come back there despite that being very unlikely at anytime soon. Obviously that fell through and there’s nothing more that has developed, but I know first hand of people in both communities that want to restore passenger service between the cities, even with some discussion of it possibly being a high speed rail route but that would require extensive upgrades to the tracks as 79mph is the fastest trains are allowed to go on the Sooner Sub.
@joeonroute66
@joeonroute66 2 жыл бұрын
I-444 was never signed nor am I aware of Tulsan's referrring to the IDL for short. (Perhaps that is a recent thing with the craze to abbreviate everything.) I remember its construction. It should be noted that the connection to the Broken Arrow Expressway was the last connection completed and US 64/SH51 were routed along 15th Avenue to Boston/Denver. I do remember those signs. Furthermore, the predicessor to this was US Route 66 along Southwest Boulevard and 11th Street. Throughout time, Route 66 had a city route along Admiral (the north south division street). Concerning city growth, review the county organization. Osage County, a Native American tribal land, is immediately NW of downtown Tulsa. West of the Arkansas River is a major industrial area where several refineries were located. Several are still operational. There was also supposed to be an expressway built from the SE corner of the Inter Dispersal Loop to run along the Arkansas River. This was part of the highway plan from the 1950s. However, access to the river's parks and some rather expensive homes immediately south of this corner stopped this effort in the 1970s. Tulsa has a poor record of modernizing their road network to match traffic demands. It is often 20 years behind.
@alecmw
@alecmw 2 жыл бұрын
I, along with everyone I know, call it the IDL.
@DylanWilbanks
@DylanWilbanks 2 жыл бұрын
In the 80s IDL was a common name. Also, it wasn't routed on 15th; it was on 13th and 14th until they finished the SE interchange. Routing all that traffic on 15th would have been a huge mess.
@saffronbandit6564
@saffronbandit6564 2 жыл бұрын
It'd be interesting to see a series or single-video list of unsigned highways and why they are unsigned. Obviously this is a great prime example, but also I-495 in Maine, I-595 in Maryland, or I-296 in Michigan. 'Very neat; glad you're back!
@sokonek1
@sokonek1 2 жыл бұрын
The grid direction looks like my small town in WI. you see the original grid matches the railroad tracks. Then after the initial area builds up they decide to change the grid to a N-S/E-W grid. Makes for some interesting issues. For example here the numbers streets on the east side of town jump from 5th to 17th because streets 6th through 16th are eliminated between 5th which keeps the angle and 17th which is East-West. Plus it creates some odd blocks and turns where the two grids meet.
@frafraplanner9277
@frafraplanner9277 2 жыл бұрын
Los Angeles, CA, Sacramento, CA, and Portland, OR also do this with their rivers. And Lancaster, CA does this with the railroad track
@howdyhamster
@howdyhamster 2 жыл бұрын
We have a similar thing in Dallas with I-345 connecting US-75 with I-45. Instead of getting its own signage for only 1.4 miles, it's signed as US-75 northbound and I-45 southbound.
@kjhuang
@kjhuang 2 жыл бұрын
I don't understand why they don't just make I-345 part of I-45.
@jeremyherberich2087
@jeremyherberich2087 2 жыл бұрын
I-595 in Maryland is also like this, no one knows it exists cuz it’s all still signed as US 50
@r.pres.4121
@r.pres.4121 2 жыл бұрын
Isn’t that supposed to be part of I-97?
@TheMrPits
@TheMrPits 2 жыл бұрын
Good summary, and highlighting many aspects of our numbering/exit system that most people just miss. Keep up the good work.
@kidlamborghini
@kidlamborghini 2 жыл бұрын
Glad to see this channel growing and keep up the good work! US interstates and their many intricacies are a fascinating topic to me with a serious lack of content regarding the subject on youtube.
@thebahooplamaster
@thebahooplamaster 2 жыл бұрын
1:54 I love the roadwork candy corn
@Owen-oh6xo
@Owen-oh6xo 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate 375 in Detroit has no exit numbers and is in the process of losing interstate status
@r.pres.4121
@r.pres.4121 2 жыл бұрын
Why is it losing interstate status?
@BeamLJ_Drive08
@BeamLJ_Drive08 2 жыл бұрын
@@r.pres.4121 it is only a couple miles long and has a low speed limit and not great road conditions
@A.Martin
@A.Martin 2 жыл бұрын
Even for the US that is a heap of highways for such a small city. You certainly don't need a loop. Keep a single large interchange for the existing highways and break the loop.
@BrianSimm
@BrianSimm 2 жыл бұрын
I-595 in Maryland is unsigned. It comes off of the DC Beltway and heads east with U.S. Route 50. It picks up U.S. Route 301 and ends at the Chesapeake Bay-with the U.S. Highways heading over the Bay Bridge. It was felt it just didn't make sense to add the Interstate signs to the roster. (This route was previously considered to be an I-66 extension, and when connecting I-66 on the west side of DC to the east became impossible (because neighborhoods), it was then considered as I-68. But by the time U.S. 50 was improved (around when I-97 was created), it didn't make sense to give a major interstate number to such a short stretch of highway that had already been controlled access for decades. Besides, that was what they were doing designating I-97, onto a highway that never leaves central Maryland.
@PGHammer21A
@PGHammer21A 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate 66 had an extension that was never built - and a bridge for it also never built - the extension was to the north from where the built section meets the Whitehurst Freeway (US 29) and would have been Interstate 266 and gone north to the Three Sisters Bridge over Great Falls - it is why Interstate 66 has that weird dogleg around the Kennedy Center to the Whitehurst Freeway. (Another weird feature of the eastern end of the Whitehurst - that elevation is so K Street can go underneath it to end at Wisconsin Avenue in the Georgetown Park section of northwest Washington - it's both the western end of K, and the foot of Wisconsin Avenue - and thus the foot of the old US 240 - back when it existed.
@rwboa22
@rwboa22 2 жыл бұрын
To be truthful, they should redesignate both the existing I-97 and unsigned I-595 as an extension of I-895. I would make logical sense as I-97 begins as a (southbound off, northbound on) spur off of I-895 (Harbor Tunnel Thruway) and the southern terminus of I-97 is a full exit at US 50/301 in Annapolis. Any parts of the Hanson Expressway between the Beltway and I-97 that is not up to Interstate Highway Standards should just be grandfathered in, yet the redesignation of I-97 to I-895 would allow AASHTO to us the I-97 designation for a future Interstate for the Delmarva Peninsula (Norfolk/VA Beach/Hampton Roads to Wilmington-Newark Delaware), with the emphasis of said highway to act as a an eventual replacement for US 113 in Maryland and Milford, Delaware and Delaware Route 1 north of Milford to I-95.
@BrianSimm
@BrianSimm 2 жыл бұрын
@@rwboa22I agree with giving the Harbor Tunnel Thruway (I-895) and I-97 the same designation. But I'm thinking bigger. I'd like to see those two combined-south until I-97 veers off to parallel The General's Highway (MD 178). That section would become an interstate spur. Back on the main route, I'd (somehow) extend I-97 further down Robert Crain Highway (MD 3/ U.S. 301). That used to be so rural, but now is congested as heck. 301 used to be a way to cut off time coming up the eastern seaboard and avoid DC-if you could stand "the witch's hat" (Gov. Nice Bridge over the Potomac). Now a controlled access road is needed there just for local egress, much less as a bypass of the DC area. Anyway, I'd take it over the new Potomac River bridges and into Virginia, hooking into I-295 in Richmond. And I'd pull it into the designation of I-85. But I'd re-designate I-85 "I-61" because that route technically crosses routes until I-65, and is slated to extend a little pass that. Because interstates are supposed to be named from where they start in the south and west (b/c that's where interstate numbers start), it makes more sense. This I-61 would then pretty much parallel most of U.S. 29 from start to finish. It'd also free up the I-85 designation to be a major north-south route between I-81 and I-95-sorely needed in the mid-Atlantic. My I-85 would be west of DC, and at least in the mid-Atlantic, be a bypass for U.S. Route 15. In the south, it'd be more a bypass of U.S. 220. In the north-well, it'd remain between I-83 and I-95-not much in PA or NY current routes that it could relieve. But it would relieve the congestion on I-95 and I-81. Anyway, no one will pay for a major resigning of I-85 or blow the money to upgrade U.S. 301 in Maryland, however needed. And I hate diagonal interstates, even as though I enjoyed my drives on I-26 as a kid. I still hope the interstates would be numbered and planned as a much as possible north-south and east-west, a grid, with the numbers in order. I think that was everyone's hope when they began: That they'd make more senses than the U.S. Highways (U.S. 6, for example). Anyway, sorry for the rant.
@BrianSimm
@BrianSimm 2 жыл бұрын
@@PGHammer21A I remember when a lot of interstates were canceled to "save neighborhoods." Well, some of those 'hoods shouldn't have been saved, and history continues to prove it. But I also think the main interstates should have bypassed major cities and then had spurs and radials service them. An I-66 that was north of DC could have continued into Maryland where I-370/ MD 200 are now, and on east in the area of MD 32/ I-97/ US 50, ending at Annapolis, or if you want, on over the Bay to southern Delaware.
@sasz2107
@sasz2107 2 жыл бұрын
What this reminds me of is the Beltline around Raleigh. Until approximately 1994, it was simply called the "Beltline" and it had no specific number for it. It was partially interstate 40, partially US 1 Bypass, US 64 ByPass, US 70 ByPass, US 401, and NC-50 at different points along the roadway, depending on what section you were driving on. There was also the designation "inner" and "outer" depending on whether you wanted to go clockwise or counterclockwise around the loop. Add in that the loop isn't a complete circle - the southwest corner of it has an interchange where you have to take an exit to actually stay on the Beltline instead of accidentally going south on US 1 and 64. We didn't have the internet, cell phones, and GPS devices back then. You had road maps or you just followed the signs on the road to get you where you wanted to go - but since the signs were confusing, people were constantly getting lost. (Come to think of it, who even gets lost while driving nowadays? We have so much technology today that it doesn't matter if you don't know where you're going. Back then you had to follow mile markers or exit numbers, attempt to use the sun to figure out which way was north or south, or you could guess (Gee, I think this way looks good! Let's try this exit!), stop at a gas station and ask directions, or make mistakes sometimes, to learn a particular route. You young-uns don't know what good times you missed!) Anyway - the solution for this was, in approximately 1994, to do the opposite of what was done here - it was to give the entire Beltline a number - which is interstate 440. However it still had the "inner" and "outer" designations depending on whether you were going clockwise or counterclockwise. So what they did was, in about 2002, remove the "inner" and "outer" designations, and change things so that interstate 40 and interstate 440 were no longer contiguous - meaning that 440 is only the upper 3/4 of a circle around Raleigh, and now has "East" and "West" designations on it - so most people will know which way you're going on the loop. The southern 1/4 of the loop is only interstate 40 now, so you know when you're on that part. The US highway designations were either removed from the Beltline and were routed through the city, in the cases of US 70 and US 401, and NC-50. US 64 still technically goes around the southern part of the Beltline and comes up the eastern side, then continues east, but first, they built US-64 bypass in about 2005 or so, and now they're trying to turn that into interstate 87, so that number gets mentioned in traffic reports now. You don't hear about US-64 anymore. US 1 is still on the Beltline but its significance at that point is downgraded, so you only hear about it when you're talking about the section of the road that's south of the Beltline. You don't even hear the term "Beltline" quite as much now, people just call it "440". Makes sense, since it's been 28 years since they gave it that number. I actually think Tulsa should do this - why not call the entire loop interstate 444 and not have multiple other designations on the road? Don't even have 244 as a designation. Then you'd know what road you're referring to.
@tangelogee
@tangelogee 2 жыл бұрын
Check out I-595 in MD for another Interstate that doesn't exist. It's the longest non-signed Interstate.
@josephdurnal
@josephdurnal 2 жыл бұрын
I was going to make this comment - yes, I-595 between Washington DC and Annapolis Maryland is similar, it is designated Interstate for funding but is only labeled as US 50. I don't think it ever received signage and few people know that it is I-595.
@jonathanbaker4936
@jonathanbaker4936 2 жыл бұрын
I-444 was signed until 1995, but is now unsigned and IS still on the books as an interstate highway number. It helps with the confusion that drivers might have with I-244 and I-44. I-444 still exists, but only on paper according to Oklahoma DOT.
@WUStLBear82
@WUStLBear82 2 жыл бұрын
So many weird things happen when multiple highways converge and the same alignment carrys multiple numbers simultaneously. One of my favorites is in Boone, NC, where US421, US321, and US221 pass through. There's an alignment that's simultaneously 221 and 321, another that's simultaneously 221 and 421, and another that's simultaneously 321 and 421 before the highways go their separate ways beyond the city.
@stevengordon3271
@stevengordon3271 2 жыл бұрын
The famous example is the concurrence of I77 and I81 in Virginia, where one of the interstates is nominally southbound and the other is northbound.
@Saturn-ej3uw
@Saturn-ej3uw 2 жыл бұрын
love the channel, maybe play some geoguesser sometime
@spencerallison3196
@spencerallison3196 2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I guess you saw my comment the other week! In fact the info here sounds a lot better because the lisp isn't prevalent. Keep up the good work I can't wait for more.
@GamingBren
@GamingBren 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve watched the driving timelapse of this highway from Tulsa Roads, it’s very interesting
@Roadklahoma
@Roadklahoma 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@GamingBren
@GamingBren 2 жыл бұрын
@@Roadklahoma no problem
@295g295
@295g295 2 жыл бұрын
3:24 - This road segment is one of the Oklahoma turnpike toll roads?
@tomflinn9815
@tomflinn9815 2 жыл бұрын
Being a nearly life long Tulsa resident, it isn't thatvthe I-444 signs were removed, to my knowledge, those signs NEVER existed on the road, just on maps.
@grambo4436
@grambo4436 2 жыл бұрын
I'm beginning to have such a disdane but also such hate towards these national freeways that makes the autobahn more interested. Because how they are badly planned and how they cut through communities etc. etc.
@CellaDragon
@CellaDragon 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate 444 (I-444) is an unsigned auxiliary route of the Interstate Highway System, with both ends at I-244 in downtown Tulsa in the US state of Oklahoma. It makes up the eastern and southern sections on the square-shaped Inner Dispersal Loop I-244 and I-444 initially used exit numbers in the 90s range, based on the milemarkers for I-44 in the Tulsa area and where they diverged. I-444 had four exits that were numbered 94A-94D until the highway designation became unsigned in 1995. The exit numbers were removed, leaving only the letter suffixes before later becoming unmarked.
@laykerboy
@laykerboy 2 жыл бұрын
US 75 needs to be an interstate it starts in Dallas going on to Dallas‘s loop around the downtown connects to interstate 45 that goes to Houston. They can just extend 45. and there you go.
@laykerboy
@laykerboy 2 жыл бұрын
It’s also up to interstate Sanders until you get to Oklahoma and they are doing so much work to get it up to interstate standers
@DerekWitt
@DerekWitt 2 жыл бұрын
The short extension of the freeway beyond the north end of I-45 is I-345, but signed as just US 75.
@charlesmccullough7892
@charlesmccullough7892 2 жыл бұрын
It should be extended to the OK/TX state line, and eventually up to I-40
@markquintonii
@markquintonii 2 жыл бұрын
It's actually in the process being built to interstate spec. McAlister to i 40 is interstate spec. From McAlister to Durant it is also us69 which is actually more important truck route as it saves hours for southbound vehicles going down I44 and i49 to Dallas.
@chefssaltybawlz
@chefssaltybawlz 2 жыл бұрын
@@DerekWitt which makes no sense. Just call it all 45 and be done with it lol.
@OreotheMiataSomething
@OreotheMiataSomething 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate 478 in NY is a bit weird. For some reason it's labeled as I-478 but its not singed as a interstate but singed as a BTB. And also it's a bit werid how it's still labeled I-478 on the maps.
@DerekWitt
@DerekWitt 2 жыл бұрын
I think I-878 is more of an oddball. The unsigned interstate section is less than a mile long.
@michaelboggus9993
@michaelboggus9993 2 жыл бұрын
In most cases even though these roads are not signed as interstates they are still designated as part of the system so they can get upgrades and Construction funded through the interstate system. I-124 in Chattanooga is an example of this.
@BeaverGeography
@BeaverGeography 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I know… I said this in the video
@nicodarsh
@nicodarsh 2 жыл бұрын
Love the topics yo! Keep up the good work!
@brianarbenz1329
@brianarbenz1329 2 жыл бұрын
Gee, interstate signs are so colorful, compared to the B&W state and US highways markers. The non-sign status of I-444 deprives Tulsa of a little color.
@clintmatthews3500
@clintmatthews3500 2 жыл бұрын
The problem I have with concurrencies is when they aren't signed properly. If a US or state highway hops on an interstate it needs to be signed as clearly and as often as the interstate itself. In fact, you probably want extra reassurance markers with all roads listed at each one. Don't treat it as if people either simply know it's there or only care about the "main" road.
@BalooUriza
@BalooUriza 2 жыл бұрын
Tulsa didn't expand to the northwest for the most part because the Osage Nation made it difficult, given the southeast corner of their border is basically Osage Avenue and Edison Street, very near to downtown.
@mikebrady1767
@mikebrady1767 Жыл бұрын
I-44 used to run only as far west as I-35 on the northern end of Oklahoma City. I remember it being that way when I drove through there in 1980. The current alignment of I-44 southwest of Oklahoma City going to Witchita Falls, Texas at that time followed what was then a non interstate toll road. That should answer your question about the ninety-something exit numbers in Tulsa, I believe they were based on the old western terminus of I-44 at I-35.
@davidtosh7200
@davidtosh7200 2 жыл бұрын
It could be future I-46 to overlap US-412 between I-35 near Perry Oklahoma to I-49 in Springdale Arkansas. Portions of US-50 and US-400 in Colorado and Kansas as well as US-60 in Missouri might become future I-58, and instead of I-569 for both Western Kentucky Parkway and the Bluegrass Parkway which connect at the junction of I-69 and future I-169 near Nortonville Kentucky to I-64 should become future I-52 for 208 miles in length.
@eryngo.urbanism
@eryngo.urbanism 2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the eternally confounding IDL. I have a love-hate (but mostly hate) relationship with that wacky ring road
@r.pres.4121
@r.pres.4121 2 жыл бұрын
Check out the I-490 Inner Loop in Rochester NY which has been partially removed. That is a whacky highway that resembled a deep moat around the downtown area.
@baddriversofnorthcentralma1594
@baddriversofnorthcentralma1594 2 жыл бұрын
You should check out I-595 in Maryland. It's the longest unsigned Interstate in the system. It stretches roughly from the Maryland-D.C. line to Annapolis. SHA only signed the highway as US 50 to avoid confusion.
@speedzero7478
@speedzero7478 2 жыл бұрын
Interstates aren't inherently bad, but this weird thing where downtown areas are choked off by freeway loops has been destructive to urban areas across the USA. The best implementation seems to be Italy, where expressways are far on the outskirts of built-up areas (the idea being this is where warehouses, railway depots, and factories are located, where "last mile" transport of goods takes place).
@markquintonii
@markquintonii 2 жыл бұрын
As someone from the Tulsa area this is the first I have I have heard of the interstate 444, it just doesn't get mentioned by locals at all. The southern route we have always called it the BA (Broken Arrow Expressway). The east route I have honestly only heard of it as 169.
@dog-ez2nu
@dog-ez2nu 2 жыл бұрын
'The Inner Dispersal Loop' - is this a place for humans to live or a medical procedure. Why would you do this to your city. Like even if you just want everything to cars, this has got to be TOO far now.
@nevyan17
@nevyan17 2 жыл бұрын
You should do an episode on Nashville -- I-24, I-65, I-40, I-440, I-840 and why Tennessee SR 155 (Briley Parkway) is not redesignated an interstate ring road to avoid the disaster of the multiple interstates merge in downtown Nashville.
@BeaverGeography
@BeaverGeography 2 жыл бұрын
Nerd
@BeaverGeography
@BeaverGeography 2 жыл бұрын
Nobody likes roads
@Sirmenonottwo
@Sirmenonottwo 2 жыл бұрын
Is almost like "Tulsa, Ok's worst tourist attraction! Must see the Interstate that doesn't exist!"
@BalooUriza
@BalooUriza 2 жыл бұрын
0:35 is slightly inaccurate but it's largely semantics. Oklahoma has no state routes. It does have state highways. There's a distinction on this that largely is only relevant in Texas, Missouri, Oregon, Pennsylvania and similarly complex states. But suffice to say that OklaDOT is aware of the distinction and on signage usually shows state highways with the standard nationally generic circle state highway shield or the current Oklahoma state highway shield, or when it needs to spell it out most frequently uses "SH-" before the number, with "OK " being the next most popular option. "State Route", "SR-" and "SR " are never used.
@LibraDiCaprio
@LibraDiCaprio 2 жыл бұрын
Grand Rapidian here, nice to see us get a mention.
@shaynestephens
@shaynestephens 2 жыл бұрын
I-444 WAS once posted. I do not know why it isn't any longer.
@osiand9328
@osiand9328 2 жыл бұрын
Tulsa looks like a city I would've built on City Skylines XD. All grids, loads of freeways, no public transport and the North West is where I ran out of tiles to build on
@josephhouk6703
@josephhouk6703 2 жыл бұрын
What's an even odder situation is that I-44 and I-244 should, realistically, be transposed - since the mainline interstate is usually the one that goes into the downtown part of a city. Of course, I can give you 66 reasons why that didn't happen.
@reedermh
@reedermh 2 жыл бұрын
Another similar setup is in Tampa/St. Petersburg, where I-275 goes into the cities and I-75 bypasses them.
@kjhuang
@kjhuang 2 жыл бұрын
Also I-80 in Sacramento versus whatever they're calling the freeway that goes through downtown. An argument can be made that the mainline interstate should be the one that bypasses downtown since long-distance travelers are following the mainline and they want to avoid downtowns.
@langstonreese7077
@langstonreese7077 2 жыл бұрын
I 444 is my fav because it goes 180 degrees on an square, also I 444 has the numbers 4. And a square has 4 sides and the number 4 and the shape square is my fav number. I still count I-444 as an interstate.
@836willam
@836willam 2 жыл бұрын
Look into the interstate system around Little Rock Arkansas. We have i40, i30, and multiple different connecting spur routes, that are still being upgraded to this day.
@kaisers.4988
@kaisers.4988 2 жыл бұрын
Just stumbled upon your channel. Very great content man! As a road geek this is a great channel to watch! Subbed :)
@MrRoadside616
@MrRoadside616 2 жыл бұрын
I-296 is still referenced by the Michign State Police often.
@blackging3rpool251
@blackging3rpool251 2 жыл бұрын
As someone linving in a german city with roughly 500 000 inhabitants strange to see that citys with a population of 400 000 think they need so many freeways, instead of good public transportation.
@kjhuang
@kjhuang 2 жыл бұрын
As a former Oklahoman I know the Tulsa IDL all too well. I actually enjoyed driving through it because of how fast and twisty it is. It really is a mess of highway designations because too many highways are converging there (and this is an issue for Oklahoma more generally - too many US highways mushing together). Basically any two adjacent segments of the loop are part of at least one highway.
@Kevine7001
@Kevine7001 2 жыл бұрын
Hey! I love what you are doing! Can you do “business routes of Interstate 94?” Or business routes of Interstates in general. It’s very odd thing honestly the more I travel with more realized about it.
@Dejvid512
@Dejvid512 2 жыл бұрын
I-476, aka "The Blue Route" would be a good subject for one of your videos. Built in spite of, but also built to placate the Philly suburbs it services. Then it was lengthened to cover the entire Northeast Extension Pennsylvania Turnpike!
@MySlenderGames
@MySlenderGames 2 жыл бұрын
Dallas has I-345 in downtown too, but no signs for it as well
@danieldaniels7571
@danieldaniels7571 2 жыл бұрын
there are plenty of errors on Google Maps.
@mbilly710
@mbilly710 2 жыл бұрын
Beaver Geography you forgot to add this US Highway that dose go through Tulsa US66
@danieldaniels7571
@danieldaniels7571 2 жыл бұрын
US66 was largely replaced by I-40.
@Roadklahoma
@Roadklahoma 2 жыл бұрын
@@danieldaniels7571 only west from Oklahoma City. From there to St Louis it was replaced by I-44, then by I-55 the rest of the way to Chicago
@danieldaniels7571
@danieldaniels7571 2 жыл бұрын
@@Roadklahoma that's good to know. I live in Arizona and rarely travel East of Oklahoma City.
@kjhuang
@kjhuang 2 жыл бұрын
It's been decommissioned since 1985.
@Default78334
@Default78334 2 жыл бұрын
If you're looking for an interesting topic to cover, Oklahoma has another good one in the form of the Chickasaw Turnpike which is probably the most pointless toll road in the US. It's a 13-mile two-lane toll road that goes from nowhere to nowhere. It's what was built of an attempt to appease rural politicians and connect I-35 to I-40 bypassing OKC and also connecting Ada to the Interstate system.
@karlrovey
@karlrovey 2 жыл бұрын
I honestly can't blame anyone wanting to bypass OKC though. Driving there is a nightmare.
@aaronholcomb237
@aaronholcomb237 2 жыл бұрын
There was talk of a Henryetta to Davis turnpike but it never materialized beyond this short segment that was built.
@tedblumberg
@tedblumberg 2 жыл бұрын
An idea for a future video is the Lowry Tunnel in Minneapolis. I've lived there all my life and didn't realize it's probably the most traveled interstate tunnel in the US. If I understand correctly it beats such well known tunnels as the Lincoln and Holland in New York.
@bikeny
@bikeny 2 жыл бұрын
I don't know about the Lowry, but I am going to jokingly suggest that the reason the Lincoln and Holland aren't used as much is due to the fact that the other side (from NYC) is New Jersey. Also, the toll for the tunnels isn't cheap. Is the Lowry tolled? And what are on the ends?
@tedblumberg
@tedblumberg 2 жыл бұрын
@@bikeny No tolls. It is near downtown Minneapolis. On each side are neighborhoods near downtown. It is the main route people take on I-94 from north and west suburbs of Minneapolis to reach the University of Minnesota, the city of St. Paul and eastward into Wisconsin.
@sk8razer
@sk8razer 2 жыл бұрын
I'm impressed with how well you can trace freeway lines on the map. I'm terrible at drawing digital lines, even if I use a stylus 😂
@BeaverGeography
@BeaverGeography 2 жыл бұрын
takes me like 15 seconds lmao
@mycauliflowerrecipe
@mycauliflowerrecipe 2 жыл бұрын
444 has always been my lucky number, bc of my late father. it's kind of crazy that THIS 444 is unsigned, bc there is a NJ 444 that is part of the Garden State Parkway that is ALSO unsigned, bc he had a band called Lost Hiway. the lost highway 444s....
@r.pres.4121
@r.pres.4121 2 жыл бұрын
Back when I lived in Cape May County NJ in the late 80s, there was discussion about either signing the NJ Route 444 for the GSP or upgrading the parkway and designating it I-87. Evidently nothing has happened.
@ivanoffw
@ivanoffw 2 жыл бұрын
Well, you did basically answer the reason Tulsa expanded to the South East, because that is where Interstate 44 exists. It is likely quite far to the North or West to reach the closest Interstate.
@CoolERoadTrips
@CoolERoadTrips 2 жыл бұрын
Cool video. I just drove through there
@apmaffs2100
@apmaffs2100 2 жыл бұрын
Salem Parkway in Winston-Salem NC (formerly Business 40) is a similar topic you might be interested in.
@EthanNeal
@EthanNeal 2 жыл бұрын
I-910 in New Orleans is the same way. It's not signed as an interstate, rather as US Bus 90. However, it is slated to become I-49 at some point in the future and connect New Orleans to Lafayette to the south of I-10.
@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2
@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 2 жыл бұрын
That’s against the rules,not properly signed up and the road isn’t interstate standards and should be a green business loop
@DerekWitt
@DerekWitt 2 жыл бұрын
For a short time during its construction, WB I-670 in KCMO was initially signed as To I-70.
@TheiPhoneGeek
@TheiPhoneGeek 2 жыл бұрын
Wow. I used to live in Tulsa & just south of Grand Rapids!
@tjp72675
@tjp72675 2 жыл бұрын
oh my god, a beaver is talking to me about geography...this has been a weird day
@lunarspunk
@lunarspunk 2 жыл бұрын
interstate 66 in virginia starts in virginia at interstate 81 and ends when it gets to d.c. it never gets to another state. it does exist tho
@MayaMaya-tj7kw
@MayaMaya-tj7kw 2 жыл бұрын
This bro has me interested in roads.
@davidgettel7721
@davidgettel7721 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for taking my suggestion.
@csxtq110
@csxtq110 2 жыл бұрын
Have you done a video on the I-81 rebuild in Syracuse NY?
@doublej1076
@doublej1076 2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like I-695 in DC (not the nearby Baltimore Beltway with the same number) -- the segment between where I-395 turn north under the Capitol and I-295 across the Anacostia has always been I-695 but was never signed. It just said "To I-295" for that couple of miles. But then Google Maps started putting in driving directions so DCDOT started signing it.
@295g295
@295g295 2 жыл бұрын
0:49 - Why is US-44 in Connecticut ?
@kaaronhudson8112
@kaaronhudson8112 2 жыл бұрын
You are becoming my favorite KZbinr
@Josh-of-all-Trades
@Josh-of-all-Trades 2 жыл бұрын
I have another question about Tulsa, and also a follow-up... Why is the river made of chocolate? And can I have some?
@Techmonies92
@Techmonies92 2 жыл бұрын
hey you should check out SR 158 in Alabama. a really interesting failed highway.
@BalooUriza
@BalooUriza 2 жыл бұрын
I still think it's weird that Google only shows the correct name of the south side of the IDL, Broken Arrow Expressway. The west and north sides changed from Red Fork Expressway and Crosstown Expressway respectively to Martin Luther King, Jr Memorial Expressway some time before Google existed and the east leg to Paul Harvey Memorial Expressway around 15 years ago and Google is still showing the old names. So zero surprise they show an interstate that hasn't been signed in decades if ever, their accuracy is garbage for all but the paid yellow pages listings.
@StLouis-yu9iz
@StLouis-yu9iz 2 жыл бұрын
I would subscribe but I am still trying to grapple with how you can love highways but hate modern suburbs… that doesn’t make much sense lol
@Connor_Herman
@Connor_Herman 2 жыл бұрын
How timely, I just visited Tulsa for the first time yesterday. Their toll roads are horrendous! I have two separate transponders for other states’ tolls and neither were accepted. They only accept physical cash like it’s 1950. They gave me an envelope to put cash in to mail in… no option to pay online at all. They actually make you get off the toll road and go to an ATM. Wasted all the time I saved by taking the toll road from Ft. Smith to Tulsa. Then many main toll interchanges are completely unattended without machines that accept bills. I was meant to have $1.15 in coins just lying around apparently. So you just have to go through then an alarm goes off and it saves the video of you. No information on what it means, if I get a warning/bill in mail/citation, etc. Worst toll road setup in America, hands down bar none. Oklahoma is a patchwork of toll roads and it’s incredibly difficult to find visual information on what’s a toll road and what isn’t. Highly recommend turning on “avoid tolls” and just not thinking about it. Not worth all the headache and frustration.
@potato9147
@potato9147 2 жыл бұрын
Driving from Tulsa to OKC is dumb too. It’s a toll road but you only have to pay getting off in between the two cities, when you exit you get a ticket and when you enter again you give them the ticket and you pay them or sometimes they pay you.
@gamewizardks
@gamewizardks 2 жыл бұрын
The toll roads in neighboring Kansas are way better and the booths are far more automated.
@Connor_Herman
@Connor_Herman 2 жыл бұрын
@@gamewizardks Agreed! I was so excited to be back in Kansas - which says a lot. Show up, grab the toll schedule, practically having to not even come to a complete stop and you're back on the road. I didn't lose any time on the KTag people at all. When you reach the end, they swipe your card quickly and you're on your way!
@kjhuang
@kjhuang 2 жыл бұрын
I used to live in Oklahoma but I haven't since 2016. Back then for toll roads they still had the super old school cones where you throw your coins in. I tried to avoid toll roads in general but on the occasions where I did use them I was glad that I could still use cash/coins instead of having to get a transponder. A transponder is an annoyance for those who use toll roads occasionally but not all the time. I do agree that having to have a separate transponder for each toll road system is also annoying. Btw, any time you see the word "turnpike" for an Oklahoma highway, you know that's a toll road.
@markquintonii
@markquintonii 2 жыл бұрын
Oklahomas automated timing system is compatible with Kansas, and the Texas toll systems (yes Texas has multiple toll systems)
@CrystalClearWith8BE
@CrystalClearWith8BE 2 жыл бұрын
I-444 is considered an unsigned interstate.
@BeaverGeography
@BeaverGeography 2 жыл бұрын
Great observation
@stevensather5911
@stevensather5911 2 жыл бұрын
You should do a video on the Alphabet Loop in Kansas City.
@MrChilili
@MrChilili 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate intersections make me want to explode
@danieldaniels7571
@danieldaniels7571 2 жыл бұрын
why for?
@steveg5122
@steveg5122 2 жыл бұрын
I595 is another secret interstate in MD
@jeremywc3576
@jeremywc3576 2 жыл бұрын
Can you do a video on the history of i49 and current events?
@mr_coffee0109
@mr_coffee0109 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video!
@SigmaRho2922
@SigmaRho2922 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate 644 should be the designation for the Creek Turnpike.
@mmburgess11
@mmburgess11 2 жыл бұрын
Or at least make it OK 644 so it can be easily changed later. Right now its OK 364 off of US 64. Same for OK 351... It should be OK 144 or 344. But we can't expect everyone at the State to be excited about their jobs....Heck there used to be a US 51 sign for the onramp to the BA at Yale! No one cares anymore.
@aaronholcomb237
@aaronholcomb237 2 жыл бұрын
Oklahoma decided to enumerate it as State Highway 364.
@SigmaRho2922
@SigmaRho2922 2 жыл бұрын
@@aaronholcomb237 OK 364? Oh man.
@michaelsivan184
@michaelsivan184 2 жыл бұрын
I-595 in Maryland is another good example.
@herbchilds1512
@herbchilds1512 2 жыл бұрын
Misleading title and graphics. I thought you were going to talk about Oregon, the Beaver State.
@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2
@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 2 жыл бұрын
Tourists will be extremely puzzled because interstate 44 isn’t signed up anywhere in Tulsa ok,so why does interstate 244 exist if it’s parent interstate doesn’t exist and it’s against the rules,this is rule one and two for interstates, the parent interstate must exist and be signed up properly for tourists that aren’t filmilliar to the area
@milesfarmer9148
@milesfarmer9148 2 жыл бұрын
Interstate 44 is signed, it's 444 that remains unsigned.
@chrisw443
@chrisw443 2 жыл бұрын
Why is the downtown grid angled? Why did they burn down black wall street? Questions we all still have. As for the growth, probably tribal land laws, just recently the state of OK said tribal courts are just as strong as american ones.
@mmburgess11
@mmburgess11 2 жыл бұрын
Because the railroad was there first and it runs diagonal, so all downtown streets parallel that. They didn't want to make the whole city that way because the whole rest of the state is not angled.
@calypsomcdonnell1479
@calypsomcdonnell1479 2 жыл бұрын
The SF Bay Area has a similar deal going on because there is an interstate 238 bur where is Interstate 38?
@kjhuang
@kjhuang 2 жыл бұрын
There is no Interstate 38. They designated it I-238 because it connects with State Route 238. Yeah, it's not good.
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