The Visual Effects Crisis

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Sources / Further Reading:
Inside Hollywood’s Visual Effects Crisis by Drew Magary - bit.ly/3LRjvHH
The VFX Industry is Trapped in a Downard Spiral by Drew Turney - bit.ly/3C3eDLc
KCRW Interview with Jeff Okun and Craig Barron - kcrw.co/3SHMik7
“Life After Pi” Documentary - bit.ly/3xZiojt
Pressure, Crunch, Blacklist Fears: The MCU’s Visual Effects Artists Speak Out by Logan Plant - bit.ly/3LTw05k
“I’m a VFX Artist and I’m Tired of Getting Pixel-F_cked by Marvel” by Chris Lee - bit.ly/3rhtOer
Abuse of VFX Artists is Ruining the Movies by Linda Codega - bit.ly/3ClgV9z
Fighting for a Piece of the ‘Pi’: The Full Story Behind Hollywood’s Visual Effects Problem by Bryce J. Renninger - bit.ly/3roDOm8
Editing the Buttholes Out of ‘Cats’ Was a Total Nightmare for VFX Crew by Laura Bradley - bit.ly/3SMLY3J
VFX Protest at Oscars by Jeff Heusser - bit.ly/3V2WoOH
Music:
Lex Villena - “6” - bit.ly/2BtObLD
Lee Rosevere - “What’s in the Barrel”, “What Happened in the Past Doesn’t Stay There”, “Slow Lights” - leerosevere.ba...
Chris Zabriskie - “Cylinder Four”, “CGI Snaker”, “Perhaps It Was Not Properly Manufactured” - chriszabriskie...
Dyalla Swain - “Psyche” - / dyallas
You can follow me through:
Website - andrewsaladino...
Twitter- / andymsaladino
Vimeo - vimeo.com/ther...

[@TheRoyalOceanFilmSociety]

Whoops, small correction at 14:13 -- I accidentally said "Motion Picture Company" when the name of the company is actually "Moving Picture Company". Apologies - just a dumb mistake that I made while recording and didn't catch while editing.

[@MegaBidness]

Don't apologise for such a small error. Overall, very good documentary. I remember that Kim Masters interview when it came out. Here we are all these years later and I wish I could say I was surprised that things haven't changed since the days of R&H going under.

[@KevinMakins]

Given the sheer amount of work you put into these, the fact that there is only one correction needed is… wow. Impressive stuff. And great doc.

[@thekaiser4333]

Don't worry. Help is on the way, We are working on a law that bans visual effects from movies. That will end the abuse once and for all,

[@lopiklop]

It kinda takes the sting out of it when you add "To pursue tax subsidies." Couldn't help but bust out in laughter at that statement.

[@konradk1066]

Those of us keeping up with the history know who you meant. It didn’t even register as a mistake. MPC is a legend in the industry. Thank you for this heartfelt and well produced piece on this issue

[@FinnTheHuman88]

As a member of the on-set VFX team for She Hulk, we knew the visuals were going to suffer from day one. Pure inexperience on the production leadership (mainly Director) set us up for failure. That is not to say that the VFX crew was inexperienced, as our on-set vfx supervisor won an oscar for Dune while we were shooting. I would like people to know that the visuals for that show are pretty well astonishing considering what everyone was able to achieve despite the lack of budget, time, and prep, as well as the sheer number of shots of the hardest thing to create in vfx, a humanoid MAIN CHARACTER. Thank you for illuminating some of what's happening in the industry. It makes it a lot easier on me when people ask what I do at parties. Thanks to everyone who have been so supportive in the replies! It really does mean a lot to me!

[@pumkinpatchwork]

yeah I saw some shots of She-Hulk and immediately knew the vfx team must have been going through hell. from one artist to another- I’m so sorry y’all have to put up with this, the shots can’t even look good despite all the work put into it and it must be crushing to shove so much effort into a project destined to fail

[@orlock20]

It's worse for She Hulk. Good VFX is not going to save bad scripts. While people started looking at the VFX for She Hulk in still images, it quickly turned to the scripts when people saw the episodes. The bad scripts are what is killing the VFX industry. Batgirl, after millions of dollars was spent on it, got cancelled because of a bad script and Blade has a release date with no script or director now. Bad scripts lead to reworks which lead to reshoots.

[@KoongYe]

Yeah. Sad thing that She-Hulk is a pretty shitty show that people will start shitting on vfx not knowing the suffering vfx artists went through.

[@shcdemolisher]

Ohh man, from an amazing film like Dune to THAT? I feel awful for the supervisor.

[@benthurber5363]

If it's any consolation, though noticed, I didn't mind the VFX issues at all... But the writing was so awful that I couldn't finish it. Honestly, that's probably mostly what we're dealing with. People frustrated with unfulfilling stories, unable to articulate exactly *why* they didn't like it, and then pick on simple things that they can articulate: "Me unhappy... Green lady look funny!" Think about classic cartoons. No one cares that they're unrealistic and that their colors don't exist in nature. It's a simple story with slapstick comedy, but everything is actually well-written; every build-up has a pay-off. Who Framed Roger Rabbit? was literally hand-drawn animation cells over live-action film. A significantly more complex story that still sells to this day, not because of the amazing work the animation and practical effects put into it, but because of the story and acting that was put into it. VFX only has to convey the story, it cannot create nor replace it.

[@nihongo_jouzu]

Former VFX Worker Here. My best war story is that I once worked through 5 x ~100 hour weeks in a row and went half mad 3 weeks in. In the end though, due to clients whimsically changing their minds, only 14 frames (so ~2/3rds of a second) of all that crunch ended up in the final deliverable. I love VFX but it's just simply not what it was like 10, 20, 30 years ago. I remember a funny moment years ago where a very grizzly veteran lighting artist rolled up behind me in his chair and whispered in my ear "You know, I used to make double doing this" and then slunk away. From his point of view, this has all been going downhill for ages. The other effect of this is that when conditions are that rough, most people who are skilled enough to leave the industry eventually will. While there are a lot of amazing people still in VFX, a lot of the best people have gone, simply because they don't want to deal with the worsening conditions and the poor lifestyle. Kinda like the Elves in the LOTR boarding ships for Valinor to never return. Simply put, the people who can easily leave for games, tech, etc., and make more money and have a better life, do. I could go on for hours about this, but in the end it's just really so sad to me. VFX was so magical to me when I was growing up, and I'm super lucky and blessed that I was able to work in it as an adult. I have a lot of epic memories, and had a lot of exciting times, along with the painful ones from my time in VFX. It really is a huge part of who I am today. But really I simply can't recommend it for most people at this point.

[@evelynnnyt]

Thank you for sharing your story ❤

[@grady4757]

I feel you. I left in 2009 for many of the reasons you so eloquently gave here. Nothing to add, just that talented artists deserve fair pay, full stop.

[@sentimentaltrash]

We legit have the same problem in games but there’s a senior shortage gap, 🫠

[@mikakettunen7939]

I feel you. Thank you for sharing this 🖤🖤 🖤💚💚💚 AND - dropping frames is always an reasonable little MacGyver hack to get through, not a sin in fear of wrath of God

[@alexlowe2054]

This is the sad truth. That movies will continue to have worse and worse people working on special effects. Fortunately, eventually things will give. Eventually the size of the available labor pool will be so small that it can't keep up with the increased demand for VFX artists, and the remaining people unionize. The only question is whether or not we have an entire year where no movies get made because a substantial amount of the industry just goes on strike, or if the movie industry is willing to negotiate before they shoot themselves in the foot. My bet is on another strike.

[@gulubidulu]

I am currently working for the VFX industry and one of the things that stike me the most in the inbalance about how people are recruited : - VFX artist : 10 years experience, knows all the ins and outs of the software -> "Meh, a little bit inexperienced, but it may do the trick for easy repetitive tasks" - Producers : never ever worked with VFX companies, know nothing about how 3D remotely works -> "You are in ! Would you like a cofee and a massage ?"

[@DanOneOne]

Software dev is exactly the same. Absolute brutal incompetence and lack of interest from top, and lack of respect. They only care about $/hr and hire the cheapest. The curse was I really liked it and was good at it, but this disrespect and dead-end future forced me to quit it forever... I can't say that I am happier, but at least I am not as unhappy. I realize that I can't do it all myself, the other side has to hold their side of the table and not act like kings. So overall this world doesn't deserve anything good unless it starts to pay for it with real respect, understanding and money. We don't owe these arrogant self-absorbed a-holes anything! "The Good must be ready to use its fists".

[@randomusernameCallin]

@@DanOneOne Being told I can just copy and paste between projects without issues suck. How can you explain that just because one change worked with no issue that does not mean it will be like that every time. One time I told the client that what they want is like shifting a house while not touching the foundation. Then there is the sale departments that livelihood is about getting business even if they do not understand everything they agree to. The largest cause of these problems are the yes-men devs, buzzword slinger or new way are good devs, one size fit all devs and the doom-sayer devs. I am sure that the VFX have artist also causing problems.

[@AdorianDelmore]

Hei i'm not a VFX expert or anything but I have to ask. Cannot a producer have an adviser in the fields they do not understand such as vfx, so that they can gain some understanding

[@randomusernameCallin]

@@AdorianDelmore I am not in the VFX industry but I have worked on a project where I was an advisor. Even when they were given good advise they still did not listen. It took a few time as my co-worker said "Put their hands on a hot stove" Worse there companies that send yes men or sales men out to be the advisor.

[@happysmash27]

​@@DanOneOne What did you move to after you quit? Maybe I may want to look into it. I do a bunch of programming, and am super passionate about 3D graphics and working really hard to make my own things really good, but it does not seem like it would be good to try to make that my main source of income due to the low amount of money in it, and if programming doesn't make so much money either... I wonder what does.

[@schnittmagier5515]

Speaking of Cats. I have a friend who worked on Cat's VFX, and he was so overworked after that, he could not continue working for a long time. He was staying home for more than 6 Month just to regain his energy and mental health. I think it really broke him from the inside, since he wants to change his career ever since.

[@GenericPast]

I went through severe burnout from work and haven't recovered, just editing pictures exhausts me. I hope he's doing better

[@timf3099]

PTSD - I'm deadly serious. 'Hope your friend has been able to find something else more rewarding.

[@johnanon658]

Op, tell your froend to stop being anti semetic

[@A_Vulture]

I also worked on cats but only for the last bit of the show (4-5 months) as an artist, most people thought it would be terrible (especially my main supervisor) and towards the end there were issues with FX simulations, groom (hair) sims and animations not matching, so if you ever watch clips from the film sometimes there will be clothing which is slightly floaty, this is due to not all 3 departments using the same base animation (should be animation - groom sim - FX sim then deliver to lighting/rendering). This is particularly noticeable with rebel wilsons character during the rum tug tugger song parts as her outfit and necklace sometimes bounce when they should not. When it came to the last 2 weeks of peoples contracts I remember we were basically told to stop as they were not going to render anymore as the shots wouldnt get in the final cut anyway, so a bunch of people still pretended to work (for some reason) and I think I just watched youtube for 2 weeks, we all got paid so who cares.

[@acephilips3470]

omg.. that's so bad.. hope your friend is ok.

[@jimpachi98]

I worked as a VFX coordinator on Uncharted (liaison between the VFX vendors and the studio & director) and the disconnect described in this video is 100% accurate to my personal experience. Miscommunications lead to reshoots, reshoots create more complications, countless hours of work wasted down the drain and hundreds of artists working 100+ hour weeks trying to keep up with the studio's ridiculous demands. Working with the director was a nightmare because he had a vague idea of how he wanted the VFX shots to look, but no vocabulary with which to describe it, besides repeating "This needs to look more *real*." My favorite moment was when we were reviewing a plate (an original, unchanged shot with no added effects) in a scene shot in the ocean. The director paused the plate, pointed to the waves in the ocean, and said "did you guys do something to the plate? That water is moving strangely!" It took 15 minutes for us to convince him that there was nothing added. It was literally just water.

[@jasondashney]

" It took 15 minutes for us to convince him that there was nothing added. It was literally just water." That hurts my soul. It's amazing how disconnected those in charge can be. Their skill isn't in their actual job, it's in managing up, so to speak. They know how to talk their way into things that look good on the resume and they care more about that than their actual craft.

[@npcimknot958]

so cool to see people In the industry comment their true feelings and observations. thisnseems to br the theme. directors and friends literally not knowing what a rough or story board is.. expects full renders in 10 minutes and then insane changes. it's like csi tech knowledge.. zooming in isn't going to sharpen something lol. it is pretty frustrating cause these flop movies, always the best part even if it got screwed over is the spfx and vfx. and it's clear wing rushed and no time is the culprit because of idiotic directors that think spfx and bfx is a snap chat filter.

[@npcimknot958]

lol if you want real we need money and a lot of time for rendering . should have just showed him the render meme of the computer exploding

[@npcimknot958]

@@jasondashney but I think it really shows.. regular war people don't understand how art works. u can't just make something in 15 minutes. rendering a lone is more than 15 minutes lol

[@Tresquall]

I worked in video games, designing levels for an indie game, for a very brief time. The crew was nice enough. But the head developer would often give this sort of feedback when I would send in level snapshots: "It just doesn't feel enough like a (enter place here)." I was young and inexperienced, so the product warranted that kind of feedback, certainly. But I knew well enough to press him for specifics, and the response was always: "Yeah, I dunno, it just doesn't FEEL like a (enter place here)." After iterating a number of times on a number of different levels, and never achieving his desired product, I left games. I know this is apples and oranges, comparing my practically intern-level skills and an industry professional working with other professionals. But this comment resonated with me. I still feel burned, almost ten years later. Burned enough to not miss my hundreds of happy hours learning and creating on my computer. I'm in education, now. I teach music. And I'm VERY clear and concise with my feedback; my students will always know what I want from them, and how they can go about achieving it. I don't regret switching careers, but at least working in games taught me that much. Funny how you can learn something every life experience. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to reflect. Have a great night.

[@MechanicalRabbits]

That clip of Taika Watiti laughing at the special effects in his own movie is particularly egregious, because if the effects don't look real on a movie it's almost always the director's fault. Marvel directors keep insisting on green screening absolutely everything, and that's a great way to make your movie look like garbage. The reason why Michael Bay's Transformers from 2007 still looks better than most modern Marvel movies is because he made sure to have as much real footage and practical effects as possible. Most of the time, the SFX were superimposed over real footage so the VFX artists could make sure light and reflections on the robots looked as real as possible, and felt like they were actually in the real world. Almost everything blowing up on that film blew up for real too. People like to shit talk him a lot, but Michael as a director has an amazing understanding of how to make special effects believable and how to give his VFX artists an actually good grounding base to work on top off.

[@liamwest472]

i do think in some way it’s out of Taika’s control how he can film his marvel movies. The studio gives unreasonable shooting deadlines that mean soundstages are required putting more work on VFX artists. Taika traditionally relies on practical effects much heavier in his other movies but i think Marvel forces his hand somewhat

[@MechanicalRabbits]

@@liamwest472 That's a good point.

[@thecompanioncube4211]

It was such a great contrast to someone actually good at being visionary like Dennis Villeneuve

[@michaelangeloh.5383]

A better example would be Gore Verbinski, who has an effects-background, and understood how to make everything look good while also telling a decent story, the latter being something Michael Bay doesn't seem to understand (given all the criticism). - And I'm talking about Verbinski's three "Pirates"-movies, which also feature a mix of both insanely meticulous practical effects, but also ridiculously "invisible" digital effects, especially for now 15-20 years ago. - And the subsequent movies also demonstrate how to NOT do it (for the most part, I suppose), because Disney probably also started to cut corners for thát franchise. - Those first three movies are just gems in terms of spectacle and adventure-films. They don't make 'em like that anymore and in a way they were some of "the last of their kind" (or quality). - The "Transformers"-movies could also be considered part of that generation, as they literally are, but also in how they looked or were made, probably.

[@michaelangeloh.5383]

@@liamwest472 - The guy probably has to say "yes" or "sure" to a lot of things, like pretty much anyone who works FOR Marvel/Disney. I don't think you get much of a say with such companies, as even a key person like RDJ admitted he doesn't, let alone Waititi. - You know, be a "yes man" and you'll get somewhere or risk getting booted. - It isn't without reason that we've also seen people come and go on projects because of "creative differences". That might be true, but that usually means that the higher power wanted something the other party didn't agree with and there wasn't going to be any other way. Kind of like, I suppose, Edward Norton wasn't going to have it Marvel's way, so he walked away from it.

[@redherronrecords]

As an example of how great the tiger from Life Of Pi looked: After the movie came out this old dude wrote the local paper round here saying like "why did you have to mention the tiger from Life Of Pi isn't real, some of us were happy thinking it was real" and it cracked me the hell up.

[@LukSter18998]

i was pissed off and sad seeing it was cg

[@cassidyallengar]

What….I thought it was a trained tiger…😭

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

You guys do realize that that CG Tiger is still real it’s just on a screen and screens are real?

[@marnenotmarnie259]

@@internalizedhappyness9774 um. it is real as in it's really on the screen, but it's not real in the way the human actor is. that is… definitely what everyone here was talking about lol

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

@@marnenotmarnie259Thanks for being a passive aggressive prick I my self prefer just being a prick but clearly I can learn from your amazing observations skill and say this entire conversation is contrite and simple because your trying to find some type of person of fits your ignorant archetype. It’s a depiction of a factitious story of a guy falling off of a boat with a tiger! oh so spiritual oh my gosh wow he’s so connected with things around him! Movie sucks, and if you wanted that tiger to a living tiger you can piss off!

[@moatddtutorials]

"Can you make it look a little more uh, edgy?" (artist increases a contrast filter) "Make it a bit more... realistic" (artist undoes the recent change) "Yes! Like that! It's perfect!"

[@rezonance4937]

Just straight up the back arrow lmao

[@burgermind802]

@Mark's Drawing Tutorials I feel like even Michaelangelo had to deal with such scenarios

[@DodgaOfficial]

Omg you hit the nail on the head, I cannot stand doing art for other people specifically because of shit like this. What I especially hate is people who "want to make sure they get their money's worth." Or "want to make sure they're keeping the artist on their toes." So they are purposely vague and obfuscate their true needs. When people are paying for art, often because the free options sucked but in their mind someone should just be doing it for free because "art is fun right? Why do I have to pay when I'm basically letting them have fun with my ideas!" They become very difficult and very toxic even if they aren't usually like that.

[@humanoquedibuja]

Classic!

[@mr.2minutes161]

@@DodgaOfficial idk if it's worth pursuing the skill anymore. maybe i should just "give up and back to farming" and let it be a hobby would make my life easier

[@Chibi_Sashi]

I remember when the teasers for Sonic first came out and people immediately blamed the animators for the terrible design. I realised that people have no idea how the entire design process works and that the animators have no say in the final design.

[@Mark-xw5yt]

I mean “animators” is clearly a blanket statement. They’re just referring to the people who designed him. I don’t think anyone was pretending to understand the whole design process for movies. It’s true that we don’t know anything though

[@Wired4Life2]

@@Mark-xw5yt *”Nobody knows anything.”* - William Goldman, author and screenwriter

[@Benjamin_Bratten]

I had a friend who used to work on the sonic team. he said everyone thought it looked bad except for two suits at the top who were just like "this is it, this looks great" and everyone just shrugged and went with it

[@PhyreSpore]

@@Benjamin_Bratten When the first Sonic poster came out (where he's silhouetted in front of light rings or something) it was the talk of the animation floor at MPC. We were SO sure that Sonic was going to go through more changes before he was announced to the world. We were spoiled by Detective Pikachu. 😅😅 Lemme tell you, THAT one has some horrors in its closet. If it wasn't for Nintendo Det. Pikachu would have been "Sonic Backlash 1.0."

[@DirtiestDMusic]

And then they hastily changed him and made people think changing an entire movie was just that easy.

[@AdamSaeed]

That sucks, man. They always tell me "look for a job that you love doing" but everything I love doing is always in a abusive environment like this.

[@jasondashney]

Yeah "do what you love" the worst advice ever if it leads to being poor and stressed out. Having a good paying job with sane hours and doing what you love in your, wait for it....leisure time, will lead to a happier life. Sometimes having your passion turn into a job ruins it. It did with photography for me for sure.

[@npcimknot958]

the most abused people are artist' they exploit of passions. and then threaten you

[@Michael-Gill]

You should work in a FIELD that you love. Doing the "job" you love is impossible unless you plan on never getting a promotion.

[@progunjack5556]

@@jasondashney what do you mean by "wait for it"?

[@pacomatic9833]

@@progunjack5556 Somestimes a piece of sarcasm, as if the thing they're about to say is unbeleivable. Or they want you to wait for something. But it's the former.

[@cyberdemon7694]

I remember that time the Oscars were on and the guys from Life of Pi got the Oscar for best VFX and started talking about the hardships they were facing and they full on turned the lights on them. That was surreal to see, like they were full on just denied on stage. Fucked up really. And the fuckers in the audience laughed and booed at them.

[@shcdemolisher]

Yeah it is just awful that this industry treats those on the ground floor like shit.

[@dinoblacklane1640]

Yet another reason to say "Fuck you" to the oscars

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

That is messed up. How could they do that? :(

[@_kaleido]

@@papasscooperiaworker3649 The Oscars suck for pretty much anyone who isn’t a world-famous live action actor or director tbh. Just look at the way they treat animation

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

@@_kaleido All of my favourite animations are cancelled. Bojack Horseman, Final Space etc. It's really unfortunate how the animation medium is completely and utterly disrespected in the industry. And the way it's looking now, it's not going to get any better: only worse.

[@nbarealtalker]

When I was in film school, nobody was allowed to eat/drink at the computers. Except the visual effects people. Because if they didn’t let them at at their computers, they’d never eat. Because they would never leave their desks. I was on that campus at various hours. Even wandered in drunk one night to use the foosball table at like 2am. All the same Vfx people were always at their desk working.

[@GhullieUser]

As a game artist I can relate, during my school years all I wanted to do was learn as much as possible. The work in it self can be very rewarding when you get to be creative and work on your own projects. That was just purely enjoyable. However in a studio you are always working on someone elses vision, which is really not the same and it just becomes work.

[@johanng2]

@@GhullieUser True for real, It broke my mind when I was so full of love for game design and development But when the boss tells you to redo everything from scratch every single time I make anything, and on top of that the work was an absolute empty job creatively, it was just make this exact thing with no creative input from me, and I make it and he's like do the whole project over again, and again and again. One day after being forced to come back on saturday because the bug tester just didn't tell them or me about a bug that was in the game, I just sat down and my hands literally refused to work, It was like I was completely mentally blocked off, I went outside my office got high on some weed, then kept thinking what to do what to do going in and out , all the while smoking cigarettes like a chimney, as I sat there it felt like a complete pointless thing, the whole of the development process became clear to me to be a complete inefficiency and then I went out and got high again and then I realised I have to leave I just can't work, but more than that I have to quit so I mustered up my courage and walked in again this time something weird happened, it's like I was In bright warm light of the sun and as I entered the building I felt like I was going back into the darkness as I literally was doing that, and I told my boss that my brain is just not working so I don't know if there's any point in me being here right now, and shook his hand and left, and somehow I feel like he knew I was never coming back from the way I acted or something. I think the most important thing I learnt is that creation is only creation when you are creating, if it's not my own complete will and vision I can't even bring myself to develop without feeling like vomiting, but if it's something I'm creating from my inner love, I can work at an incredible intensity efficiency and for 30 48 straight hours and actually feel refreshed after that.

[@cryofpaine]

@@GhullieUser I wish I could remember where I saw it. I think it was a short or something. Someone was talking about the old saying "Do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life." And how awful that advice is. They were talking about how they had gone to school for art because they loved making art, and then they started working as an artist. And all that passion died, because no matter how much you love doing something, being forced to do it day in and day out for someone else is exhausting. So eventually they quit and went back to school to be a lawyer. Now, they have a job that they enjoy, AND they have their passion for art back because they're creating it for them.

[@assassin8636]

​@cryofpaine can you say it in other words please I'm trying to understand what you're saying

[@assassin8636]

​@@johanng2I'm trying to understand what you're saying

[@ghuff31]

In my daily life as an editor, nothing bothers me as much as the phrase "we'll fix it in post". As for my private art life, I stopped doing commissions and only do what I please. It gave me back my joy.

[@npcimknot958]

they think everything is a snap chat filter..

[@cassidyallengar]

My film lecturers have hammered in “YOU CANT FIX IT IN POST” so I at least make sure all my stuff is correct in the shot or do another take. I also don’t like editing for long periods so that’s a great motivator to make sure everything is good.

[@nubnubbud]

I still remember the first time I had a director who said that. He asked me to come over and remove someone from the background of an overexposed shot. When I got there- he didn't have any editing software, and his internet was too slow to install it that day, but the deadline was coming up. I sat him down, and made him watch me edit the person out in MS Paint. 29 frames took 4 hours and looked perfect. I trust he now respects our craft a bit more, and I'm thankful I'm one of the few VFX artists to have the chance to do that.

[@ioanamarin3242]

@@nubnubbud wow

[@miinyoo]

This.

[@buildatrap]

As someone currently working on a Marvel film being released soon I can vouch that this is pretty accurate.

[@tuojiangoman3228]

Well, hope that you all get better conditions, even if it is asking too much from Hollywood.

[@SwagHyde]

is it really worth it?

[@buildatrap]

@@SwagHyde Gotta do your job haven't you. If that's how you pay the bills then you just get on with it.

[@lukky6648]

Hey man , just know that we all , the audience love you guys just as much the actors or even more at times.

[@Racinek]

I'm sorry. I and many others out there feel for you. :(. When I hear 'delayed due to reshoots' I know you guys are going to get uh, shafted and blamed. :(. The bad thing is when vfx are done well generally they 'disappear' so good work doesn't always go noticed .:(

[@elidranow]

Of course Keanu Reeves is one of the only people to give his VFX team a bonus

[@NorthernRealmJackal]

"A very hefty bonus" even. To go against your own monetary interest, to an unprecedented extend, solely because it's the right thing to do, when literally no one around you would even consider doing the same.. it take much more spine than you'd think. What an absolute legend.

[@leongponce]

I want to work in a Keanu movie now!

[@Game_Hero]

"It was breathtaking"

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

That's how supply and demand works

[@malte1984]

I thought the same thing. At this point I'm convinced he is such a nice guy that you could burn down his house and he would pay for the gasoline, provide snacks and cool drinks while you do it and be like:"Thank you, I was thinking about renovating anyways."

[@BowmanMars]

I sat next to a guy from Rhythm & Hues on a plane a few years ago, he told me that to make things worse, they had used a proprietary 3D software so after the bankruptcy and layoffs, they struggled for work because they didn't know the industry standard programs that everyone else had spent years honing

[@_S_P_A_C_E_M_A_N_]

That's rough

[@hazonku]

I remember hearing that somewhere else & thinking, "How incredibly strange." Both that they'd rely on something internal (makes it hard unnecessarily for new hires and even harder for anyone leaving), and how strange it was that they didn't just release it out into the wild when they went bankrupt as a nice fuck you to the studios that did them in.

[@rahuldasgupta1491]

@@hazonku Just FYI, their entire pipeline was based on Linux. Release the software in the wild LOL...trust me even if they gave away for free, it would not be easy to integrate it to any pipeline or have a new pipeline which you could put together. I remember a studio called Prana took over them and thought they could do the same level of VFX as R&H. Yes sure why not. The reason they had proprietary software were quite a few. They did not have to pay some ridiculous amount to a software company to keep buying licences (Though they did have a few licenses for cross studio integration and some specific usage but that was minimum). Their inhouse software was constantly being updated to adapt to new shows. Their Comp software ICY was waaaay ahead of its time especially for lighting in comp. Their renderer WREN was kickass way back.

[@chaos.corner]

@@rahuldasgupta1491 Yeah. When there's no software because nobody has done it before, you write your own and then when you need something new, it's easier to modify what you know rather than move to something else. It can be done but what's the motivation from the studio's point of view?

[@rahuldasgupta1491]

@@chaos.cornerReferring to R&H here. The time they started, sure they developed their own software and set up a vfx pipeline especially for creature based shows which they knew very well. Over the years so many softwares have come and gone. AFAIK, they had a small team of in-house software developers who maintained and grew the software as per their requirement for a show. Yes I can agree that it would be a challenge to move out of such a place and go to a studio which worked with conventional 3d software. This would be massively crazy if you were a generalist. However if you were a specialist animator or compositor or modeller, you could pick up the tools on any software. Principles still remained same.They also understood that not all disciplines of 3d like zbrush for modelling could be emulated by them. So they did integration of certain off the shelf software with their main pipeline with time.This reduced their cost of licence ownership based on shows.

[@BlenderBob]

26 years of VFX for me. I did work at R&H but way before Life of Pie. The last big studio I worked for was Method. I quit because it was a sausage factory. Now I work for a smaller shop, Real by FAKE in Montreal. Small doesn't mean small projects. We even did over 300 shots on Moonfall. But our working conditions are awesome. I'm the CG sup. However, we do have to sleep at the work place... then again, we work from home. ;-)

[@DavidConant]

Awesome to hear about your switch to a smaller studio :)

[@northstarjakobs]

Reminds me of the differences in working conditions and expectations for crunch between different video game studios (which is also an industry that has a massive problem with crunch and treatment of workers)

[@kaelthunderhoof5619]

I think these days, it's better to work for A24 movies coz they're heavily on story and not CG

[@MikeJohnson-qy4wq]

Nice! I loved Moonfall, it looked great, and a fun film!

[@writershard5065]

@@kaelthunderhoof5619 They're not mutually exclusive? Everything, Everywhere, All at Once used extensive digital VFX, and yet they were able to manage their scope really well, it looks brilliant and its story is fantastic.

[@farorest3621]

Just a slight note, I worked on CATS, I was there, the studio you were talking about, MPC, did work on it, but the *MAIN* studio behind it was Mill Film in Montreal, which also closed about 6 or so months after the movie's release. Mill Film was a subbranch of The Mill (which still exists), however we were on the same pipeline of MPC Montreal since we were sister studios under the same ownership, Technicolor. MPC Vancouver was the main studio that was working on the first Sonic movie at that exact time. Really great video! I appreciate the effort in shedding more light on the abuses of the VFX industry. Thank you for your work.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Oof, now if that isn't a foreboding name.

[@digimei2143]

I worked on that film as well too as compositor in Millfilm. And it was insane if you ask me. But yeah i heard what happened and it was still shocking for me

[@farorest3621]

@@digimei2143 You guys in compositing had it super rough, I remember. But, then again, every one did. I remember the day they sent out the email about wanting us working 7 day/week when we were all doing 6 day/weeks already, and the eruption it caused on my floor. The whole production was a complete mess. I hope you're at a better place now.

[@onemorechris]

knowing how complex my work is, which is significantly less than film, i really don’t know how any films end up getting finished. i often watch the credits thinking ‘how did they even feed all these people?!’.

[@TheWaynos73]

i worked in a similar situation at a newspaper a few years back as a graphic designer - having to deal with the demands of pushy editors who have NO IDEA how graphic design programs like photoshop or indesign or illustrator even works - and thought that major last minute changes to hours of work could be done instantaneously at the touch of a button and they would constantly berate their staff for not being flexible or talented enough to keep up with demands

[@Argusthecat]

I think the worst case of a VFX artist being treated poorly that I've seen recently was the person who got told by their studio that they had to stop creating their own comic, because it was a conflict with the industry work. Not that it was taking up their time, but that it was *competition*, that wasn't allowed under their contract. I cannot imagine working in a job that requires you to be creative, while simultaneously crushing your passions that way.

[@StuartLugsden]

Where was this said?

[@Argusthecat]

@@StuartLugsden The comic was Daughter Of The Lilies, and it seems like it was more Disney than the studio themselves. Also, when I went to check on this, it turns out they have since wrapped up their obligations there and are back to updating, so that's cool.

[@BranDMZ]

I hope he/she left that studio

[@adancingpieceofbread8109]

My high school video production teacher showed us Life After Pi in class and it taught me that there is someone at every step of the filmmaking process, even if you've never heard their name. I also found it disgusting when news about Marvel and Netflix broke earlier in the year that they were treating VFX artists like shit, a common response was "they chose to work on it, so they shouldn't complain."

[@mallk238]

even worse: apparently its pretty common for marvel to blacklist studios if they decline the offer to work on a project. Like if they approach you for work and you say no? boom they will do whatever they need to to ruin your reputation to ruin your business. So its not even like they can say no??? This isn't so much about marvel as it is a Disney thing. They are literally so powerful that they will lose profits on something to kill another company. They've done it for years too. They wanted Robin Williams for alladin so they did everything they could to tank ferngully (a project he was very passionate about and would not leave for their big paycheck) so he'd quit to work for them.

[@CabezasDePescado]

I am sick of disney and the mcu and the shills. The company sucks as a movie studio and as human beings.

[@thelawgameplaywithcommenta2654]

It's true. Especially nowadays with KZbin and global companies you have way more options to make money as an artist of any kind. If you stay in a company while being skilled enough to leave that's on you.

[@RakeshMalikWhiteCrane]

Yeah, it's like working as a PA on a film set... you get assigned a 15 hour shift not including travel time to/from set while everyone else has a 12 hour shift... so they go into overtime pay at 12 hours (which makes productions very reluctant to go over 12 hours) but PAs don't hit overtime until after 15 hours. It's also very thankless work... The independent film industry has a golden opportunity to hit the studios where it hurts though.

[@RakeshMalikWhiteCrane]

The differences are of course that VFX artists require a lot more skill and get paid better than PAs, but... sigh.

[@chancemcclendon3906]

I jumped ship because of this kind of treatment. Went to school for vfx and now I'm working in architecture doing renderings here because they treat me like a human being.

[@viridianacortes9642]

Sometimes that is a good thing to do. Work in a more relaxed job somewhat related to your major, and do side projects in your free time. I’m glad you’re happy. 😊

[@pysq8]

Good for you!

[@VocaFan4ever]

Speaks volumes of how bad the vfx industry is because architecture is also another industry known for overwork!

[@muneebkhaki]

@@VocaFan4ever wait really?

[@BrvtusVG]

@@muneebkhaki yeah, in many architecture industries around the world overtime is expected and crunch is the norm. Same logic as VFX - companies are contracted by clients who have no idea what kind of work goes into it and set unrealistic demands and deadlines. So, the fact that the VFX industry is another order of magnitude worse is pretty telling.

[@discman15]

You ever noticed that every time a studio changes its mind at the last second about a movie, it tanks, everybody's treated badly, money flies out the window and it's a complete wreck? Yet it happens more and more

[@seanposkea]

And what prompts that? A focus group, a Twitter post, an off-hand remark from a studio executive. The director panics and thinks, "Oh no! They wont give me $10 mill to direct their next piece of dreck!" and starts demanding everyone start over. From politics to police chiefs, civilization is slipping back into feudalism where too few have too much power.

[@mikakettunen7939]

@B Babbich Your comment soliditates this all mayhem for one sentence - thank you.

[@seekittycat]

Lmao if only it's because of a focus group or a twitter comment that prompt it cause that would imply the executive has an interest in the market or other people's opinions 😂😭

[@t.b.m.5718]

There is a reason why this problem exists in several different industries (not just in VFX). We as people tend to overvalue the individual we see in the work rather than the team that actually worked on the project. Every time there's a big successful movie, you bet its success is given to the actors(whose names are adverts) or the producer(usually only credited to the most egotistical rich person that cries the loudest.) Essentially the directors, actors, and sponsors get all the credit because they advertised it despite all the extra back-end work that goes into the film. Working in visual effects is like working as a cook in a restaurant, no one ever tips the cook, they tip the cute girl at the register.

[@splitsee2526]

@Xdelta_ what you think about others as intelligent is perceptive, however I am in the same perceptive as you for this, I agree.

[@equinox-XVI]

That last analogy is... painfully correct to say the least

[@GabrielF430]

I think many people tips the cook, what they don't acknowledge are the people that works for the cook.

[@kaemincha]

​@@GabrielF430 this is a better analogy tbh

[@lephtovermeet]

That's true. I think it's also worth noting it's an industry with low barrier to entry (don't need a degree or license or even crazy hardware these days), which is very subjective, and many young people think is cool. That's prime for and over supply of workers, even if finding talent among those workers is difficult. Furthermore, North America has also been trending heavily aware from workers rights and towards elitist worshiping. Just get another (engineer, technician, artist, skilled tradesman, etc.) their fungible and disposable. But your managers and money havers are infallible god's. No one has seemingly been able to buck this trend.

[@DChamberlin84]

I've worked in VFX for nearly 15 years. For most of that time I had a staff position at a company that wouldn't often take that kind of crap from the studios. If something major needed to be changed we would either push back on it, or tell the client how much more it was going to cost them, or how much more time we'd need to get the work done. In return, the work was always top notch, the artists rarely burned out, and I loved working there for a long time. Treating the artists like people results in a better product. The only exception to that was Marvel. Worked on Thor: Dark World, and Avengers: Age of Ultron. Worst projects in my 10 years at that company. Pixel F$%# is exactly what it is. weeks of notes on a 14 frame shot (literally blink and you'll miss it), compressed schedules. Honestly kind of surprised they even bothered putting our names in the credits. I've worked on movies that couldn't even be bothered to add artist's names on a black screen at the end of the film. VFX houses need to unionize every bit as much as the artists themselves, so they can collectively tell Disney, Warner Brothers, Fox, etc. to straighten up and fly right, or they won't have any CG for their lousy movies.

[@PaulGuy]

Exactly. The film industry is filled with unions, one more is a small thing. But they shouldn't look to the other entertainment industry for union structure, they should look to the construction industry. If a client makes a change and isn't willing to pay, then that change simply doesn't happen.

[@flipnap2112]

I cant tell you how many time a MASSIVE change rippled through the entire pipe and id ask "why didnt they even TRY to pushback?" and you'd just get that whole "well, how can you say no to (insert big studio name)". I mean its such an abusive relationship like none ive ever seen.

[@steventhehistorian]

@@PaulGuy As an outsider who knows next to nothing about the entertainment industry... this astounds me. Essentially every project-based transaction in every industry has an agreement based on predefined requirements and deliverables with compensatory rules and limitations related to client requirement changes. The VFX industry has reached maturity and if this video is an accurate reflection of the state of things then things need to change. My heart goes out to you VFX people. Thank you for pursuing your passions. I hope you start getting the fair treatment you deserve.

[@FIDEL_CASHFLOW_]

Unfortunately this phenomenon isn't limited to the VFX world, small companies that depend on contract work are all being corrupted. I used to work for what's called an MSP or managed services provider. It was an IT company that other companies who weren't big enough to justify their own IT department expense would hire to do IT for them. I work there for 10 years and at first the owner took no BS from any client. They would consistently ask for things that were not in the original contract, would ask for increasingly ridiculous requests and get upset when we couldn't accommodate them, they would refuse to agree to update their infrastructure per hour contractual guidelines. Then something clicked about 5 years ago, all of a sudden we were being told by the owner to accommodate every out of scope request. I even went to the CEO of one of our largest clients house and shoveled snow off of her sidewalk in the middle of the day per our guidelines, if customers had outdated infrastructure when we took them on they would agree to pay extra for us to update in 30 infrastructure to modern standards. Even though they would sign that contract, they would kick up enough of a fuss when it came down to it that the owner of the company would back off and we would be stuck supporting horribly outdated infrastructure that was inefficient, a pain to manage, in a massive security risk. My theory is that the company owner realized that if we didn't bend over backwards for the customers no matter how ridiculous the request, there was another company that would.

[@bricknolty5478]

@@PaulGuy Right? The studios wouldn't let their directors pixel fuck every scene if it ran the bill up.

[@GoldBearanimationsYT]

The editing in this video is incredible

[@Divide-Films]

That's not editing. It's VFX :D

[@brainwashalpha5495]

@@TrunkyGurden agreed. sometimes simplicity wins

[@TC-by3il]

@@TrunkyGurden Same. Thought the effects were unecessary and distracting.

[@Teddeggs]

I met a guy who worked on Cats, I went to uni for animation and one lecturer that came and taught for a few months worked on a team that did the tails on the cats specifically, the thing about Hooper wanting to see completely rendered shots whenever he wanted screwed around *multiple* studios, the thing is because this team worked on just the tails they were one of the later groups in the chain of command of rigging the animation, but were constantly sandwiched in between communicating with other studios on what was going on The way he described everything seemed like a total nightmare, ridiculous crunch hours, unattainable deadlines, etc etc, there was no way the movie was going to turn out good from the start but it’s a wonder that other films even turn out as good as they do at all with so many issues affecting the industry but a big big one is directors being total fucking idiots when it comes to vfx knowledge and understanding of the time and effort it takes

[@thephilosopher7173]

Not to defend the director but a part of the problem is the fact directors might be pressured with a tight deadline and budget. So its a big mess because studios are money hungry, but that also makes sense because if they lose money the studio goes down and the whole system of businesses collapse. Truly the public needs to support smaller and more thorough movie productions rather than the big ones.

[@tyty0071]

@@thephilosopher7173 sometimes we just have to let things collapse and rebuild from the ashes.

[@poppinc8145]

Sounds like 3D animation nowadays has the same problems we heard about 2D animation. So what was the point in killing off 2D animation again??

[@Bluejeanne1]

this story made me cringe, clients like hooper are an absolute nightmare to work with

[@npcimknot958]

God cats.. didn't he want like but holes for all thr cats too or somwthing

[@kjxy96]

This is why actual artists need to start holding more creator/directorial roles. You need the higher ups to be able to speak to artists at their level. Who better than a fellow artist? This rule translates to 2d animation as well

[@alexman378]

It also translates to action films, when the director is a stuntman (John Wick/ Extraction). It’s also the reason the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy holds up really well effects wise, the director had a VFX background and knew exactly how to set up shots. 16 years later, Davy Jones still looks like an actual character that they shot on set.

[@aztro.99]

bingo, thats why theyre called directors; they need to know how to create their vision themselves, then employ others to help reach that goal faster. not all these trust fund babies running around the industry with daddys money wondering why the cgi doesnt look good enough smfh

[@ziggykatz12]

Definitely. And we can help, by pointing out when prospective directors *don’t* have that experience. But, mainly we need to be vigilant and *talk* about vfx artists. Don’t let them get swept into obscurity.

[@ObsidianLife]

As an ex-SFX Artist, trust me...this won't happen. It comes down to money and power. When a production company invest money into your project, they want a RETURN, not a great piece of art. That is absolutely secondary. To also be fair, trust me; as a life long artist and an art protégé I can count on a couple of fingers which artist I've known in the past 30 years that I would just give a budget and let them do whatever they wanted. I've even know some who were told they should spend THEIR money on the project and then all the sudden they wanted standards and practices instead of the free-for-all they said they wanted. The answer is do independent film/ projects if you want to create ART. Show people how it should be done by leading by example instead of expecting people to give you money so you can do whatever you want. The secret there is that if you succeed, you can make demands instead of expected people to just give you things for no reason...

[@dantierandbalogh]

Very true

[@PaulCarmona]

VFX is in danger due to their own success - the improvements in quality have been amazing - and now there is a higher and higher expectation unfortunately people assume this is all easy and don't understand the efforts required. As a photographer - even I have been Pixel F**kd. the public at large have an expectation and little care or understanding how it's completed. What needs to be done is that all VFX studios need to be part of a guild like the actors guild or something along those lines where pricing is set that is fair for everyone.

[@thephilosopher7173]

I totally get why they should unionize, but I only partially agree. Unless they get solid ppl as heads of those unions, you will eventually see how they get taken over and abused but this time across one (or fewer) banners. I was apart of a union that the company used to divide and conquer by giving better contracts to more senior workers than the junior's. I was the Junior.

[@blackxcrowdy]

I always cringe when I hear people say "dooooh, it's just CG, it has no soul. Just computer thing. So lazy unlike practical effects"

[@TekkLuthor]

I went into photography to create content and realized that there is so much stock content out there. It's almost not worth it. Instead of wasting time shooting a sunset, there has to be a photo out there with the perfect sunset

[@rt.]

"in danger due to their own success"? no, not paying post production people their dues is what causes the danger, always have.

[@GoldBearanimationsYT]

Actions speak louder than words Keanu reeves is such a good dude

[@eyeofbast]

He only takes a small percentage of his salary from acting and distributes the rest and doesn’t make it about him. The only reason anyone knows his humbling actions is from others who have made these claims. Keanu, does what a caring person in his position would do. He definitely puts his money where his mouth is. He is deserving of the praise and respect. If only our politicians and his fellow thespians could honestly do what he does.

[@glennwatson3313]

You have no idea what sort of person he is.

[@ghostt4163]

@@glennwatson3313 true, but you can make an inference

[@revanofkorriban1505]

Gee I wonder why everyone forgets George Lucas.

[@mallardofmodernia8092]

@@glennwatson3313 as someone who knows multiple people who have met him including a family member (they catered and served him at a hotel they worked at), he is as the rumours say. He is incredibly kind to waiter staff, doesnt have weirdly specific or possibly rude requests regarding room service or table service, kept his room incredibly clean (other celebs that stayed have often ruined bed sheets or other things and then expected compensation for what they themselves did) and he enjoys a nice cup of coffee or tea in the morning outside enjoying the scenery. He is also socially awkward. In the wild keanu is just as sweet as the rumours say.

[@FindTheFun]

I'm in the games industry and it's the same way. Designers all have fun inventing and testing the world, programmers get a decent amount of power over everyone else because the whole game relies on them, but artists are shoved in a hole and if they make noise they're replaced. Every day I thank my lucky stars I never took interest in the art side of games.

[@teachmetelugu7320]

what is your job then? Im geniuinely curious

[@Silent_Tentacle]

@@teachmetelugu7320 QA testing. The janitor position of programming xD

[@cynthius6567]

Considering everything I've heard about game dev, I don't think the programmers are in much of a different position from the artists either. I was hoping that artistic positions were at least less subject to abuse seeing how creative concept art can be and how little leads seem to care about excruciating detail, but I guess not. In the end, everyone below management is just a factory worker on an assembly line in these industries, seen as replaceable drone labor to be optimized to hell and back or tossed to the curb. I wouldn't envy the programmers if I were you. 60+ hour work weeks, extreme staff turnover and extreme stress and mental health issues are the norm for them.

[@sentimentaltrash]

I agree with 50% of this but I really don’t think it’s like that in every studio, esp not the ones I’ve been at. Generally scope in my experience comes down to the CD and good producers will know how to predict crunch and out of scope, designers should be working with producers…if they’re not 😬. The other problem I see is I also feel like there’s a bunch of times where having 1 tech artist would have saved artists 100s of hours of work. They’re obv utilised way more now; but I agree a lot of artists are treated terribly but I think most of the time it’s not because designers “get to have all the fun”; vs teams actively ignoring producers & artist doing repetitive tasks that could be automated.

[@VineFynn]

Programmers are hardly in a good position lol

[@BatrickPateman430]

Time and time again Keanu showing he was raised by loving parents and is a genuine legend.

[@Sonicfoxtrot]

WAOH WHOLESOME CHUNGUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@MrQuinnlord]

"Raised by loving parents" what a weird compliment to give someone

[@protato911]

@RoachDoggJr If I remember correctly, his mom raise him well, working hard to feed both him and his sister and his step dad, the one his mom married right after his biological dad, shows him the craft and got him into the industry, they even maintain good relationship after his mom divorce him.

[@thatpeskyrat]

loving parents doesn’t equal a good person. the implication of that is that someone with a rough background would be a bad person…

[@Vectivus.]

@@thatpeskyrat that's not how syllogisms work

[@Advent3546]

I wish all the VFX artists a happy unionization.

[@SirBlackReeds]

There won't be anything happy about that. Unions ruin industries: they prevent car manufacturers from utilizing their labor efficiently, they put chomo teachers in the rubber room, they protect dirty cops, their pensions fall on the American taxpayer, they routinely utilize non-union labor while they boast about how good unionized labor is, they prevent new employees from entering their fields with their ever-increasing wages, and they wield undue political and centralized power. Try listening to Thomas Sowell's take on unions.

[@BBWahoo]

Big strikes need to happen, they should strike while the iron is hot!!!

[@robthomson1902]

a union won't help - studios are spread all over the world, and even domestic ones are now in both union and right to work states. Unions would also do nothing to help the viewing experience at home. There are times an artist needs to burn the midnight oil to make a shot sing and they will do it happily if they believe in a project. You think the guys went home early on the Abyss or Star Wars? They stayed late because they knew they were doing something that millions of people would love for a century or more. they did it because they were building on a long legacy of film history and adding their piece to that story. A union would ruin that flexibility. What needs to happen instead is ending state / government incentives and let studios build up a foundation so they can start to bargain. It'd be a hard slog but unions would just ruin the industry as a whole, or it would sap even more money from artist's paychecks and be a completely useless organization.

[@judegnelson]

Unions aren’t effective in an industry where you can just choose another studio in Canada or India

[@danielalorbi]

@@judegnelson How did writers guilds solve that problem? Or did they not have that problem to begin with?

[@rolon-will3362]

Making money as an artist often has this same narrative. If the customer changes their mind, they expect you to start again and they don’t want to pay you for the work you have already done. I always charge for the time, making sure that the customer knows they are paying for my time and not the finished product. If they are not happy with this I don’t work with them.

[@alexman378]

Don’t know about you, but I only offer one freebie. I’ll do a first draft, take notes of everything you want fixed, and then it ends with draft 2. Any changes after that are extra. It’s amazing how much more efficient people become with what they want when those conditions are in place.

[@erik9817]

Yeah, set the expectations correctly from the beginning!

[@DTStheTDS]

This repeats a lot of similarities to the video game industry. Happens way too often when devs and/or vfx makers will work unrealistic hours every week (almost non-stop in some cases), and after working themselves to the bone, they get laid-off shortly after it's finished. The stories that came from associations with EA and Activision/Blizzard are revolting. Makes it difficult to convince one to willfully join those industries.

[@sunla]

Scope-creep situations are something artists in general have to deal with when working for a client or company. Non-artists do not understand what goes into visual arts, and their willingness to take advantage of artists and studios in the most disrespectful way makes it completely apparent that they have no clue that artists, especially those as technically skilled as VFX artists, don't just zap pictures and moving visuals from their mind into reality.

[@BinkoBunko]

This same thing happens on a programming side too. The producer, manager, whatever just waves their hand and says "add this, add that, add this" and you want to look at them and go "do you have any clue how long this will take to implement and then how much work the art team is going to have afterword?". Management with 0 experience is the biggest hinderance to a project.

[@sunla]

@@BinkoBunko oh absolutely, I can see that happening, no doubt. Those are the people that think technology is magic. "Get to work programmer! Beam the programming into existence with your magic brain power or something!" *gestures loosely at the computer*

[@purplehaze2358]

I don't understand how an industry whose very existence is mostly built off the back of visuals can treat visual effect work so poorly.

[@ObsidianLife]

Because the artist are a dime a dozen. When I got into the industry in the 90s we could command significant $$$ because of scarcity. Alias/ Wavefront Software was $80-100K and you had to run it on an SGI which was $50K. Now you can use Blender for free and create movie quality effects. If you quit or tell them to F-off, you're chair won't even get cold before the next person shows up to do your job...

[@Horny_Fruit_Flies]

The same reason factory barons treated their workers like cattle in the nineteenth century. Because its cheaper and they want to make higher profit. Welcome to capitalism. If workers want to have a say rather than rely on the whims of the overlords that hire them, they need to unionize and bargain for better conditions collectively.

[@kristianopronin]

@@ObsidianLife Well that´s the main cause for sure.

[@kurogane2x]

@@ObsidianLife Yea, artists for the most part are almost always comparing themselves to each other. Its hard to be actually confident on your work and and always thinking theres someone better than you is a double edge sword. On one hand it makes you strive to be better and on the other hand, employers can just use more time to find someone better that can do your work for less. Having a union would be a great thing to the industry and hopefully it stops the tomfuckery of these big studios.

[@alexseleniar]

Ha, read that again, You're a genius, you just don't know it yet :)

[@eoincampbell1584]

If VFX are going to be used as heavily as they are the film industry needs to start using the same process as animated films. Story board heavily, make animatics of every scene, have the film edited before you even start filming. Then sweeping changes and reshoots can be prevented.

[@acnelson75]

They should’ve started doing this 20 years ago.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Are you looking forward to even more directors from an animation background directing live-action movies?

[@andrewgebert5718]

While the suggestion is good in theory, it's not practical to film this way for live action movies/television. A film set will have all sorts of strange challenges you won't be able to anticipate until filming starts. This can include poor weather, actors not being available for certain shots, location not giving you the angles you want, equipment failure, and so on. Plus creative endeavours always require iteration. What you put on your storyboard/script will generally not play out exactly how you had it in your head. Even budgeting for these types of things is difficult because there are so many unknowns when working with any creative medium. David Sandberg (Director of Shazam) did a great video about exactly this kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6uxhGeLlMZ4aJo

[@eoincampbell1584]

@@andrewgebert5718 I'm aware of all that, and I don't think my suggestion would change that a certain amount of change is necessary as part of the filmmaking process. But unnecessary changes based in rewrites or redesigns could be prevented using this method.

[@thisorthat629]

Or we take a step away from VFX ( thus there will also be more budget per worker left, meaning fairer pay ), and start using real effects again, building sets, etc I mean some movies are shot almost entirely infront of green screens, im talking about urban movies here, eg whole skies are edited in because the current night sky wasn't perfect, ...

[@luissolivan]

I'm not in the VFX industry but I'm an artist and being one, I do appreciate the work that VFX artists do in the movies and understand the long hours and the pressure. I had no idea this has been happening in the industry. Very eye opening video. I do hope that it gets resolved soon. In my opinion I think unionizing will be the way to go forward. I honestly thought that VFX artist were already unionized. Thanks!

[@Nate-bd8fg]

Holy moly that's a worthless comment, do you have anything useful to add to the commentary? Remember, "COMMENT section" not "virtue signaling section"

[@luissolivan]

@@Nate-bd8fg Woke up in the wrong side of bed today Nate? So sorry you all mighty Nate for not being useful to the cause. "Virtue signaling?" yikes...

[@javierpinon9443]

Keanu Reeves being one of the few people ever to give a bonus to a VFX crew just shows how great this dude is

[@DonKrieg-382]

wholsome Keanu chungzs Minecraft good fortnite bad soy 100

[@TabalugaDragon]

That explains why effects in Matrix 2 and 3 are still some of the best in movie history. Those people were grateful.

[@arvinjay336]

@@TabalugaDragon the one with a hundred Agent Smith in Reloaded kinda sucked.. but for me the DBZ fight rip-off they did for Revolutions was awesome.

[@TabalugaDragon]

@@arvinjay336 are you joking right now? Try making something like that using the hardware of that time. Full CG characters looked really bad in almost every movie of 2002 or before. The montage in that scene however is incredible. When they show multiple Smiths in one scene it looks seamless and almost natural. That was one of the most complex scenes to make in movie history and you're complaining about poor CG.

[@RamsesTheFourth]

@@TabalugaDragon He is right to complain. Doesnt matter if the VFX shot is hard or complex to do if in the end it looks weird or cringy. I feel same way about it.

[@Grand_Works]

I'm actually shocked VFX hasn't unionized by now. But, this is how all the film unions basically happened, because studios would overwork and undervalue their crews, so they protected themselves.

[@frebbbreeze2841]

I have seen many a VFX producer deride the idea of unions openly, basically trying to scare off the idea. I have seen many artist talk down the idea thinking it would limit them. Hopefully now those artists see sense

[@kurogane2x]

I agree, having a union means marvel and other big studios would stop pumping out low quality movies and go back to the early to late 2000s where CG were actually treated with respect and care.

[@mangosightless]

;)

[@bradleysick6467]

Excellent video. As a digital artist who worked on Life of Pi, I would counter that it was not a redesign of Richard Parker that was so devastating, but the months-long hiatus in post-production that Fox imposed whilst they and Ang Lee set about trimming his over-four-hour film into something more reasonable. For a studio-for-hire like R&H, to have to keep hundreds of artists in limbo was just too great a cost to bear, and the fact that it happened on another R&H show at roughly the same time, tipped a studio with an already-tight profit margin into bankruptcy.

[@kidShibuya]

And R&H takes zero blame for just giving away free work? This all sounds crazy to me. I make apps and face all the same issues, constant changes and rewrites. But they cost. This work is done.. Oh you want it to work differently? That ill be another $10K. If the VFX companies just bend over that is on them.

[@majedalhakawati7]

@@kidShibuya I’m not in the industry but it might be stipulated in the contract that they are on hire until the film is deemed completed by the studio, otherwise there’s be legal consequences, in addition, the reputation of the VFX company would be damaged if they refused to do work or demanded more money, and no other studio might hire them, or they can just find another VFX house who will do it cheaper/ demand less money. Thus there’s a high pressure to do whatever studios want

[@michaelwoodruff115]

Also the insanely complictaed tax 'schemes' and companies setup to deal with this between production and VFX. I believe AL was also involved in these companies too, which further complicated things. Devastating what it did to R&H, as they did impressive work and were regarded as such

[@UndeadSlayer5]

I heard they played jaws music to stop the visual effects artist who won the Oscar from telling everyone what happened

[@Kevin_Street]

@@UndeadSlayer5 You can see that moment in this video.

[@wibblewobble1934]

This is why the problem isn't ever the use of CGI. CGI done right looks incredible, its the insane timeframes and demands put on the humans making this stuff to brings about poor end results.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

the problem is definitely sometimes the use of CGI, when the entire movie is shot on green screen the actors cant give good performances, i.e. the hobbit movies where even ian mckellan couldnt perform because he had nothing to go off of. contrast this to older movies like Alien(s) for example, where most of it was shot on real sets with actors holding real props which looks better than most CGI ever could and helps the actors portray their characters better.

[@wibblewobble1934]

@@TheSuperappelflap As I said, when CGI is done right. ANY tool thats used badly will end up in bad results, this is not something unique to CGI. Minatures, puppetry and stop motion can look god awful when done badly too. Also we now have the tools to place the actors directly within the CGI space, as is done with the Mandalorian, which really helps the performance when the actors themselves can literally see the virtual world around them.

[@michaelwerkov3438]

And honestly... I forsee them trying to jump on the ai bonanza from this year and trying to cut vfx even deeper

[@AlbertKelley92]

It’s sad. I thank every VFX team who works hard on bringing the visuals to life on screen. You guys and gals deserve a high pay rate. I know that stuff takes time.

[@hoshi-15]

I always felt really uncomfortable when actors talked about how they were told by directors " it's okay we'll just fix it in post." The Mysterio costume didn't allow Jake Gyyllenhaal to even lift his arms much. Editing the costume seems easier than taking all the shots of Mysterios moving his arms and editing them to not look stupid. It wouldn't have such heavy crunch times either. I loved seeing sets where they actually built out the area and probably feels more grounding for actors to get in the mood

[@kurogane2x]

We'll fix it in post gives the vibe of "it'll only take 5 minutes right?". Directors at a given stature needs to be always schooled on how visual effects are done so they have an expectation of a timeline to do all the shit they need to do in set. But almost always its always the outspoken, primadonna douchebags that reaches said stature in the industry.

[@byucatch22]

Christopher Nolan has talked about how digital cameras (allowing unlimited takes) and CGI has become a major crutch and excuse for lack of up-front planning. Apparently, he approaches it very differently.

[@martinlarrivee5081]

VFX is indeed rooted in an overtime problem. It was fine for me doing 80-90 hours week when I was in my 20's-30's and single. Even going out at midnight after my shift. Or going to sleep at 6 am catching the first bus in the morning.... but at the beginning of my 40's, with a family, a baby... I had to cut down my hours. I didn't want to leave later than 6 pm, wanted to help my wife. It started to become uncomfortable refusing staying at night or not coming in on week-ends... that's when I knew I was done. Always feeling guilty just doing a 40 hours week. Wasn't for me anymore. And believe me, at 40 hours, you are NOT a team player. The system and the pace are just made in a way that is very hard to have normal weeks. And I was in a very very good, human and generous studio at the end. It's just a reality for everyone, the margins are so thin. Some other studios are really brutal and will bully you if you don't do more than 60 hours.

[@glennwatson3313]

I don't understand what you mean by "bully you." Are you paid hourly or do you get a salary? If the former then, by law, they have to pay overtime right? Do they threaten to fire you? How does this bullying work?

[@pom791]

​@@glennwatson3313 iirc UK doesnt pay overtime, Canada and US do. They put pressure such as talking about cutting your work, giving your work to someone else to finish thus removing or diminishing credit. Usually when joining youre greeted and welcomed with a lot of hype and positivity, but as soon as crunch deadlines creep in if you dont step in with overtime the positivity becomes a privilege to a point the artist does not feel welcome anymore. Cant even blame them, the production pipeline becomes a hot potato of resentment, stress and chaos that eventually trickles down and intensifies into the artists, if production is being callous with you then its not unlikely they got shouted at or threatened by the higher ups outside the studio. Just avoid AAA studios if you want life and work balance, or seek them and bounce around to increase salary and experience

[@martinlarrivee5081]

@@glennwatson3313 You usually get paid for overtime, not always. Some countries (when I was in the UK for example) didn't, and you were paid the normal salary regardless the number of hours you were doing. They were just asking you to stay. Sometimes what they will do is just to offer you that time back, to take a "vacation" in the future, but it's never given back with a smile and it has to be when it's convenient for the prod schedule, which is basically never. They will not threaten to fire you, but when they ask you how many overtime you can do this week, if you say none, you will be greeted with some kind of insatisfaction and they will let you know they are not pleased. You may get black listed for promotions or put shitty projects.

[@satan5537]

Because in the UK you cannot work over 40 hours per week.

[@martinlarrivee5081]

@@satan5537 ha ha, well, it was def possible back in around 2009 that's for sure.

[@joesalyers]

In the music industry we fixed this a long time ago. You get 2 revisions anymore and you pay for a new session, this stopped the endless recalls of turn the hi-hat up or can the bass be just a DB louder. Even though recall is easier now with digital recording we still work as if it’s an analog session because time is time. If it’s our mistake we fix it but if it’s just an artist being picky out of artistic fear or insecurity we just make them pay.

[@grumpycup4762]

I'm a VFX artist who graduated in 2013 when this stuff was starting to blow up. I remember so many anecdotes from industry veterans that today just boggle my mind. People from Double Negative and The Mill (You bet your ass I'll be naming and shaming companies here) told me outright that if I was lucky, I'd get to start out as an unpaid intern or "runner". That meant I'd "Get to" run coffee orders for the artists while they were working, and if there was any downtime, I'd be allowed to shadow them for a bit and ask questions as long as it didn't disturb them. I have heard nightmare stories from Ghost FX in Denmark where their artists(my former uni-mates) were forced to work insane hours of overtime, unpaid, with the promise that they'd get to take that time off in post-production. (So like you work 8 hours overtime, you can take a day off). When the first project was finished, they were immediately put into pre-production on another project :) Can't cash in that time if you can't go to post-production :) In the end they got unceremoniously fired when the company decided to downsize. They never saw any of that time they had worked, paid out. Probably illegal sure, but early-20s somethings don't know that. Don't get me started on Important Looking Pirates (ILP) of Sweden. Their lead 3D artist was a complete asshole who reigned supreme and unhindered. We're talking full on verbal abuse and harassment - in front of others. He'd berate a junior artist, new graduate; for not being good enough. Shouting at them how much better he was and how worthless at 3D they were, to the point that they were crying. He's still at the company :) To this day :) in a COO or something position IDK :) Basically it's kinda like mean girls mixed with your average reddit mod merged to become one. Out of my fellow graduates, very few work with VFX or even 3D today. Games companies are a bit better, but yeah... You get treated like expendable trash. You're expected to move all over the world every 2 years (sometimes even more often) because hey! Toronto just put in a 40% vfx subsidy! we gotta be there! If you have any plans of having a stable life/family/etc. You literally cannot be a VFX artist today. As for me; I now work at a great studio focusing solely on product visualization. If anyone even did half the stuff I experienced in regular VFX studios, they'd be fired on the spot. If anyone suggested to management that we should have a "Runner" position that just gets coffee for minimum wage (or exploits interns). They'd tell us that sounds unethical AND unproductive as hell and serves no other purpose than to stroke our egos. - and they'd be right. 9 years in the business and I was one of the lucky ones that made it out intact. Just filled with a loooot of bitter resentment and outright hate :D

[@TheSuperappelflap]

Probably illegal? Bruh in any EU country, it takes literally one call to the labor authority to get a company like that shut down. Making people work overtime long term is illegal. Even if you voluntarily agree to it, you can change your mind whenever you want, report them, file a lawsuit, and get a big payout.

[@rabbitcreative]

@@TheSuperappelflap > it takes literally one call to the labor authority to get a company like that shut down. You poor naive chump.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@rabbitcreative im not naive, i live in a country with decent workers rights.

[@nurucdo]

Bro u have to report that and get that company shut down

[@poisonpotato1]

Lol but I've been told Europe is the gold standard for compensation and benefits

[@aspergale9836]

The story of Rhythm and Hues and Life of Pi is basically a crime in all but name.

[@stephen12holbrook]

I was at the Hollywood protest of 2012 after Life of Pi went bankrupt. Today, the best I can do myself is simply not work for companies that have what I consider to be unreasonable demands on my time. Being able to work remotely has also given me a lot more control on how I manage my time. I dont see unionization happening for the vfx industry anytime soon, so the best we can do as individuals is to not stand for abusive practices, and be willing to work for studios that will treat you fairly, even if you dont get to work on glamourous shows like Game of Thrones or big blockbuster Marvel movies, thats just my two cents.

[@SP8inc]

Good work is good work, who cares if it's not game of thrones or marvel. That's the way I'll probably go.

[@segamble1679]

I was wondering about the likelihood of unionization being the way out. not that I'm against unions, but from my layman's perspective, it's not so much the VFX house's treatment of their workers (although that is still an issue), it's the studios treatment/expectation of the houses. Unionization doesn't put the pressure on the right people. It certainly will protect workers and that should be pursued and championed, but it does little or nothing to correct the broken system that has created the problem in the first place.

[@ruskasielu6261]

The corridor digital channel really gave me a different point of view on VFX. You quickly realise that although many CGI shots are bad these days, it's rarely the VFX teams' fault, but simply a matter of direction, vision, pre-production, or simply time and money. It's really sad that many of these artists won't be able to shine, and will have their work criticised despite the fact that they've done everything they could given the situation...

[@zacklarez]

The Ang Lee thing is really upsetting. It's all upsetting. I'm a storyboard artist and I learned that I've been getting pixel-f*cked. But we are mostly good at charging additional days for more work. But with VFX it seems there are often no days to add or their agreements seem to allow the client to decide when they're happy. A lot of times, the client doesn't know what they want until they see it, or they see what they thought they wanted and change their minds. I'm still very grateful for a living, but when it turns into working long hours for free, there's a problem.

[@flipnap2112]

dude, im not kidding on this. I worked on a major film and we had zero storyboards and a little concept art. after we were done with the film, the storyboard artist used the film and made story boards from it. they had a section on the "making of" on the DVD and he showed his boards and actually had the balls to brag about how close the artists followed his boards. I almost fell out of my chair. and the studio let this happen.

[@zacklarez]

@@flipnap2112 fuuuuuuuuck

[@experienceaeiou]

this video made me tear up a little :’( watching actors and directors shit on their vfx artists’ work broke my heart, let alone the fact that no one is compensated for a job well done. artists deserve better.

[@coreyparsons2946]

@experience aeiou Not all of them, there are plenty of them around who are the complete opposite, who care about the artists and appreciate them and all their hard work and who do really think that they do deserve a bonus and to get paid.

[@Kyrieru]

When I got into developing indie games I realized how much of a bullet I dodged by not joining a big company. I hope that eventually some of these studios find a way to just sell their own work for their own sake.

[@floatytrouty]

Cool what game are you currently developing?

[@marnenotmarnie259]

definitely. i don't think i ever really considered trying to work at one of those big companies. part of me wants to keep my projects/teams small to keep as much freedom as possible, but part of me really wants to try to grow my (future) studio and prove it's possible to have a successful game development company without stealing the life force from your devs

[@VTriggered88]

This makes me feel absolutely horrible for every time I have ever said anything negative about a CGI or VFX shot.

[@zenpuppy2627]

You're a good man. Thank you

[@sillyskeleton]

You can still criticize, but now you know who's really to blame for it.

[@zenpuppy2627]

@@sillyskeleton hahaha

[@Aisha_Luv]

@@sillyskeleton exactly

[@ma.2089]

Yeah don’t worry, whatever criticism you had is echoed by the ppl who made it. Artists are far more critical about their work than you could ever be, and they also r upset they didn’t have the time and the healthiest schedule to make sure they could live well AND create a good product

[@TreasonsBeta]

I wanted to work in the VFX industry before I found out what it's like to work inside a VFX industry. It's not on the level of some of the anime studios but it's getting there. The amount of skill that goes into crafting this stuff is unbelievable. If you look into any VFX pipeline, you'll probably be surprised on just how many niche skills are packed into on small part of any given processes. That doesn't even bring up the fact that VFX are done at extremely high resolutions which will spike the render times astronomically. I get 2nd hand anxiety just thinking about it. If you only have so many computers to work with and then a deadline gets cut, you'll be relying on render farms that hopefully don't already have a queue.

[@NeoNovastar]

I remember hearing those comments from Tessa and Taika and being extremely disappointed, especially knowing the kind of hardship Taika went through to get to where he is, and the work he does to bring in indigenous film students to each of his productions. Like, I know he just says things to rile people sometimes, and its possible he meant it as a self-deprecating jab, but the lack of thought to who he was insulting was gross. I really hope unionization is able to happen soon.

[@rollofilms24]

This is just heartbreaking. As an editor, i really feel like the post production department gets the worst deadlines anf if something goes wrong, its posts fault! Cheers to everyone. Great video, man!

[@colinwatt9387]

It's a similar problem to the video game industry. In my experience, non-creative people seriously underestimate how much work it really is and adopt the attitude that "it's just messing with computers, how hard can that be?".

[@Schnort]

As someone who opened up SFM once, I can confirm that animation is the most impressive and difficult thing ever.

[@SolRise_yt]

In animation too! Both for movies and video games..

[@danim8]

As a 30 year Vet to VFX and doing both Practical and Digital, a lot of these issues are on the shoulders of the people who put up with it and think its the norm. I work for a company that isn't toxic and recommend to anyone who works for me to not practice these types of behaviors. I send people home after 8 hours. I manage my team in a way that doesn't treat them like shit. I choose not to work at companies that are toxic. IT WAS HARD, I raised a family, but I didn't get to work on the biggest projects but I stayed employed and happy as a result. I'm sorry but these sorts of behaviors are not an exclusive club to VFX workers. I've seen the same in other creative jobs, and technology jobs at many levels. The way "management" treats its workers across the board is broken. VFX is not alone in this fight. Teachers get the shaft having to pay for their own class supplies, get treated by society like dirt, poorly paid. First responders like ambulance drivers and paramedics who do life saving work, are paid hardly nothing, expected do do so much and and vital to society. Its al a ball of shit until we ALL stand up and fight for what is right.

[@ajiththomas2465]

Good for you and your company for treating its VFX workers right. The reason why we have this CGI Crisis is because CGI artists aren't unionized. All the other major filmmaking professions like directors, writers, actors, makeup artists, key grips, etc. unionized during the huge unionization wave of the 1940s to 1960s while CGI artistry was a new field that came about in the 1990s and the first CGI artists were libertarian dipshits who thought they didn't need a union along with outsourcing CGI work to dozens of VFX houses in Asia for dirt xheap prices and a few decades later, here we are. The reason why we get bad CGI is never the CGI artists' fault but the major production company (Disney, HBO, Universal, etc.) who don't give their animators and CGI artists enough time and resources to do the CGI while overworking them to the bone. A leftist political streamer KZbinr that I really like named Vaush explains this better than I can in this comment because his dad works as a CGI artist, so he's acutely aware of how screwed over the CGI artists are. Search up "vaush pit she hulk" and you'll find his 26 minute video that breaks it down in an entertaining and informative way.

[@SheerForceOfWill]

Hey Dan! I always tried to treat the guys I work with with respect and empathy. However, tax breaks made it so I stopped getting budgets where I could hire people I could treat well. Actually, I couldn't even afford to hire people if I wanted to treat them like shit! 🙂So I started mistreating myself shouldering the bulk of the work unril I realized I could be a bagger at Trader Joe's for the same hourly rate. And while you pivot your business plan to fix what you can, the video's point is still taken: And this ain't the business I got into 40 years ago, and never will be again. That ended as soon as VFX artists allowed themselves to be called "vendors". Hot dogs, anyone?

[@Kay-kg6ny]

HELL YEAH. Also i will shout this from the rooftops forever: WE ALL NEED UNIONS.

[@edibleapeman2]

We need a PEOPLES UNION

[@SirBlackReeds]

@@edibleapeman2 Did you try thinking about what you were typing for just one second before hitting "REPLY?" Think about it, what do you think is going to happen with that much centralized power?

[@3DJapan]

It always bugged as an animator, how Animators basically make the whole movie but the actors, who work for maybe a week, get top billing.

[@jonathanwennstromm1578]

Well let‘s not trashtalk actors here who basically make an art of their own. Yes the 1% of actors make a fortune, I’m sure the 1% of animators/vfx/comp people etc. also make a shit ton of money compared to the average of 30-40k a year If you want to criticise then it‘s the higher ups, same goes for „everything wrong“ in society

[@juz882010]

they replacing you anyway with Wonder Studio

[@budthecyborg4575]

It won't be long now before animated movies just use AI voices.

[@One.Zero.One101]

Yeah if you think about it, sci-fi / fantasy movies today are 70% CGI. They're basically animated films sprinkled with live action. Even on the scenes with real actors, 70% of the frame is CGI.

[@jeremiahwarden5959]

Especially voice actors who speak 10 lines in movies that are 100% 3D rendered.

[@Sanimation24]

It's not just effects they have to deal with either. I remember talking with a VFX supervisor for Marvel who explained to me all the extensive touchups they had to do of Chris Pratt in post because he didn't think he looked good enough. CGI can do anything, so companies expect it to do anything

[@yw1971]

So that's why he looked so different in 'Terminal List'.... I wondered when I saw it if he was made-up to look worse.

[@samjane3500]

That's incredibly bizarre but unfortunately believable. Did he mention for which movie & scene this was and what specific touchups he did?

[@Sanimation24]

@@samjane3500 it was all of them. Not that this was for gotg2, not the first one

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Proof that he really is a prat.

[@HeelPower200]

"CGI can do anything sp companies expect it to do anything" feels like it could have horrific work implications..If there were almost no limit to results at my work..holyshit

[@trinitysxxi]

On day of the dead here in Mexico schools often make altars dedicated to historical figures. At my college there was an altar competition on 2013 and since my team was made up of students of animation we decided to dedicate our altar to Rhythm and Hues closing, so we made this really well designed drawing of all of the animals of Life of Pi, made with cempasuchil flower petals, beans, rice, and other natural materials, and I was really proud of it... I'm still salty that we didn't win. A team of mechatronics won because they included moving elements and I was so pissed because they didn't have any special theme, it was just miscelaneous day of the dead imagery. It has nothing to do with the rest of the video but I wanted to get it out.

[@ooooneeee]

that's such an awesome tribute 🥰

[@schmoborama]

💯 as a former employee at r&h I really appreciate that 🫡

[@hufficag]

Robots will always win

[@clydesdale1775]

That sounds amazing, great work! I also couldn't stand it when the robotics club would steal the thunder from art student's in school. :,)

[@cottonfluff1317]

You won in our hearts my dude. You won in the artist's eyes.

[@wayneeast405]

That Taika clip made me see him in a new light. He was blaming the Vfx artists in a film that ended up being abysmal.

[@dontpanic5278]

Yeah I used to have a lot of respect for his films as well, as silly as they were. Maybe he's just ignorant, but that doesn't make him less of an asshole here.

[@Chrisratata]

I didn't hear blame in that clip. Maybe I'm missing something from the whole video it was taken from but...

[@No0utlet]

@@Chrisratata I agree with this. I don't think he means to be saying "Those VFX guys really suck", but that *is* the implication nevertheless. I get the feeling he is more happy-go-lucky and thoughtless instead of passive-aggressive and shitty.

[@No0utlet]

As evidence, in the full interview (which I'm only just now watching), they spend a significant amount of time talking about Taika's decision to use a clip of Tessa being startled in a moment where there is nothing that would have caused her to startle and they're just having a laugh that he never noticed.

[@Chrisratata]

@@No0utlet that just adds to my read of the clip that he's being more self-critical/self-deprecating than anything else. He asked a question then winced when Tessa was blunt about it not looking real. I sensed that regardless of whose "fault" it is, he was aware enough that it's still nonetheless his name attached to it. What's people's issue, that he questioned it?? It's reasonable for a director to be honest about their missteps after the whirlwind of a project is over. If you ask me that's a bit refreshing over directors bloviating about how great their movie is just because it's their baby that they've been tasked to market. Being genuinely critical of these things is a road towards improving them, one's own involvement included.

[@iminumst7827]

I like learning 3D modelling and animation, when I mention this to people I've on multiple occasions had people tell me I should join the VFX industry and work on movies. I tell them that's not a good industry to work for and try to explain the overworking and how they get shafted, and people react like I'm just trying to avoid an honest day's work. People just don't get it, and I'm glad you made this video. My career goal is to become a videogame producer / director, and currently it's my focus to understand as much as possible about the variety of skills that go into production. That way when I do make it to the top, when I tell someone to do something I understand what it is I'm telling them to do so I can always avoid making unreasonable requests / deadlines.

[@Lucy-mayy]

For a good example of good VFX integration I definitely recommend ‘Everything Everywhere All At Once’. There’s a WIRED video featuring the directors and their effects lead, and it’s great to see how involved the directors were.

[@gringochucha]

Thanks for the tip. I absolutely loved that movie and really enjoyed the WIRED video and the fact that the mindset was clearly nothing to do with what is shown here.

[@ericb.4313]

I was about to bring that movie up since the VFX team was 9 people including the 2 directors. None of which had specialized training. They also did much of the VFX work over zoom which is actually shown in the movie itself.

[@Lucy-mayy]

@@ericb.4313 Yeah it’s really impressive!

[@paulbryant8403]

Yea not a bad movie. Bad name tho

[@robynsun_love]

I think one of the reasons that visual effects artists Get short changed like this is partially due to the nature of visual effects work itself. The fact that it can be changed endlessly after everything else is set in stone, and that none of it is “real” for the director in the same tactile way as being on set. More harm can be done through apathy than malice.

[@Zunderfeuer]

The problem with that is, it literally can't be just changed on a whim and that is what those Hollywood idiots don't understand. Changing the basic designs from some visual effects requires them to be redone from the ground up. It is not like having a house and wanting to add an additional window (And even that is sometimes pretty tricky when you have to consider structural integrity) Honestly this whole topic makes me so hateful towards the whole big movie industry (of which I am a participant too by still watching it) I have several friends from the US that are working in the industry and all have the same stories. Doesn't matter which part of the spectrum. Make money of people as much as you possibly can. But I guess as long as this big industry is in the US nothing will ever change when there are big bucks to be made.

[@DanOneOne]

Well, they have to stand up and charge more for every change. And if they will be fired, then I am sorry, but the world doesn't deserve a good CGI then. I did this with my S/W business. And I closed it. Yes, it was hard, but I moved on and never looked back. Did the world lose some of my creativity? I guess. But it doesn't look like it cares that much. So overall it was a win-win. Let the world suffer too, maybe they will start to understand who is important also.

[@volbla]

Anything in a movie can be changed. You just have to get all the moving parts back together. You got writers, directors, actors, costume and prop designers, make up artists, video and audio equipment, sets, catering, and probably many more parts that i can't think of. The difference is that all those parts are visible to the producers for practical shots*. If you don't work closely with the visual artists and just "put in an order" and "get a result" you can't appreciate the work they have to do to make the same change. Lindsay Ellis has said that seeing the technical details in the behind-the-scenes content of Lord of the Rings was what inspired her to go into film making. "Most people think that the studio just calls up the movie stork, and they press the movie button, and then a movie gets made." It seems like even industry professionals have an equally naive view of how visual effects are made. * edit: Apparently another difference is that they actually have to pay for them! They've somehow avoided that when it comes to vfx.

[@PieFlavouredPii]

Other issue is, people are petrified of being blacklisted from every studio for speaking out in any way shape or form because of NDAs.

[@ObsidianLife]

Not so much...most artist aren't going to violate an NDA and you have to be a MASSIVE asshole to get Black listed...There's a VERY famous Music Video director (that's how long ago I was in the industry) who survived on Cocaine and Yeager that my company worked with and when he FINALLY got Black listed from ILM, my bosses were super excited to work with his crazy ass...we proceeded to work on a HORRIBLE music video that I don't want to name because it looks awful, but I bet you've seen it!

[@jasonduncan139]

Thank you so much for making this. As a VFX artist working on a off for 20 years this has been the story time after time for my entire career. And as you say it keeps getting worse. Which is why I no longer work in the industry. I am grateful to finaly feel understood with this documentary literally saying everything that has happened to me in my time VFX over the years. I loved working in VFX but now only feel burnt out and cynical. Thanks again for shedding light on this insidious situation.

[@Sydwiz9999]

As someone who wants to go into VFX this is slightly discouraging :( What do you do now?

[@lancemorrisibe937]

@@Sydwiz9999 up up up

[@lancemorrisibe937]

same as Sydwiz9999 question

[@BradFoshow]

As someone whose been in this business for 12 years, this hits on all cylinders. Hard to do something you love when the world doesn't see or know you, only the figureheads. Thanks for making this, please push more of this awareness out Bless

[@gimmibox]

The VFX industry needs to be respected much much more. On a different note, how can you not love Keanu Reeves. Even giving VFX artists hefty bonuses? What a guy.

[@samjane3500]

For sure. It's even more amazing that he did it before visual effects artists were being abused and were still having a reasonable workload of around 100 visual effects shots compared to the thousands of shots needed today. Keanu knew who the successful factors of the film were.

[@eoinhanley4185]

Agreed , love the guy even more after hearing this.

[@thisorthat629]

No offense, but this isn't about Reeves as likeable as he may be

[@jjstarrprod]

As much as this vid here makes a great job at explaining the situation I got the feeling that it will only reach the ears and eyes of people who are already aware of the situation. Wondering if making a big budget hollywood movie with some actual stars who are actually sympathetic to the VFX industry (such as Keanu, for example, or even directors who were at the forefront of it, like Lucas, or maybe Spielberg, Peter Jackson or Guillermo del Toro) specifically geared on this topic to diss at the entire Hollywood system might actually bring some more public recognition, thus legitimacy for an actual improvement of the industry ?

[@pewpew3125]

@Monocle 42 i think it was something like he accepted some degree of a pay cut to make more for the VFX budget, but thats a very different thing than keanu walking down to the VFX studio and giving everyone a bonus like oprah

[@shiningstar737]

I have always been fuming furious that none of the real artists gets any attention at all in any form of media, everything goes primarily to the actors that is just a name and dose barely anything comparably, even worse if it’s moCap or VA. Those who put substantial work in it like writers, musicians, concept, storyboard, animation, camera lighting, cloth, hair, partials, animation and everyone else that needs a crew just for a detail. Freaking Rapunzel’s hair was designed by a team lead by a woman who’s entire career & education was rendering realistic hair both physically & visually while managing to make what people thought was absolutely impossible! Any coverage on that? *NO!* had to look at the BTS for that.

[@10thletter40]

In construction, you have "change orders" which means changes in the work are adapted and negotiated for extra cost. This is what VFX studios need! Abuse of overall animation changes is a problem and it is a contractual one in this case.

[@flipnap2112]

ive never seen any other industry that would allow this type of stuff. people would go to jail for these kinds of changes, or be forced to pay. we call it collateral damage. but its BS. the director can change anything at any time.. as many times as they want with no penalties. back in the day when they tore the set down, that was it. nowadays you have everyone on set playing with their phones. its like the entire art form is disposable with as many takes as they want. my biggest fear was that they figure a way too stream the pipeline directly to the theater. and after the film was released they just keep on making changes and pipe it in for the next showing..

[@antimatters6283]

"change orders" used be the norm in VFX, and then, things worked better. Any change was an added charge, everyone knew that. What R&H did on PI was stupid, because they had dim people running the place. Many people are now learning the wrong lessons as the experienced people who know better leave.

[@flipnap2112]

@@antimatters6283 "dim people" didnt run R+H. John was one of the most careful and respectful people when it came to the artists. Their "behavior" is an industry standard, thats what this docu is all about. What you arent realizing is that he was protecting the artists as much as possible. its a very VERY convoluted business and as fcked as all this is, every studio accepted it and operated like that. The major studios know this. Same thing with the tax incentives. Every studio in california dried up, ran a skeleton crew and shipped all their work to the (insert tax city). All california had to do was offer a ridiculously cheap tax incentive ands they said "nothing, you get nothing" and in their arrogance destroyed the entire industry as we knew it. now the same thing is happening in these new cities as studios chase cheaper costs.

[@AlexanderGieg]

@@flipnap2112 This doesn't change the fact that the VFX studio has the option of not accepting a contract that says "any changes are on us". Sure, they won't be contracted to be part of big blockbuster of the moment, but they also won't go bankrupt while they serve smaller projects. It's basic Capitalist behavior to try and make labor compete with labor driving them to subsitence levels of living, while the Capitalist grabs all the rent they produced. It's on labor to notice they're being gamed, look at the Capitalist, reply "thanks, but no, thanks", and join forces to turn the game on its head.

[@flipnap2112]

@@AlexanderGieg oh BS. it has nothing to do with Capitalism. There are millions o businesses in the capitalist system that this does NOT happen in. this is an industry wide problem and the fault lays at the feet of EVERY PRODUCTION STUDIO. if they had balls and formed their own type of union to stand against these practices it wouldn't happen. movies would never cost more than 60 million to make and workers would all be happy. problem is theyre all hungry for the contract so theyre willing to eat the costs. I worked at a studio that lost a hard drive with background plates. they decided to send them to a recovery center at a cost of 130thousand pounds. The contractor had a copy of the drive and wouldve sent a replacement for free, overnight. My studio was trying to save face, for some reason EVERY studio will bend at the knee for the client and do ANYTHING they ask.. and its bizarre and evil. the cancer is the industry

[@smashdriven1640]

This is a serious problem. We talked a lot about this in a college class I took. The main issue is the movie studios give the VFX companies payment offers up front to work on a movie but then often times production takes longer than expected because they need redos on some things but the VFX team are locked into their set amount. And like he said they don’t get any extra pay for how well the movie performs.

[@LaughsAtThunder]

I work in post production and this is painfully accurate. The executives at the top level making these decisions have no clue how anything in post production or VFX actually works, so they make insane requests/demands of their vendors that have no basis in reality/fairness. Then the vendors feel like they have to push their employees to meet these insane deadlines (hence the dreaded crunch) in order to stay in favor with the studios so they can keep working with them on future projects. And I can't blame them for feeling pressure to deliver for the studios - that's who is keeping their lights on at the end of the day. And say no to their crazy deadlines/budgets/etc then another vendor is going to jump at the chance to work on that project because its a big name studio or project. It creates a pretty terrible cycle where the studios are never told no - so they start to expect vendors to turn work around at faster and faster deadlines. The only way I see change happening is for vendors/vfx house/post houses to collectively put their foot down and establish better industry standards... Also want to clarify this is just my general observations about the industry for 5+ years now, not referring to any specific studios/vendors.

[@icecreamhero2375]

The executives should be forced to sit in the room with the animators to see how things work.

[@jjstarrprod]

@@icecreamhero2375 Yep ! Even better, they should be forced to take a month-long crash course on VFX and deliver some of the shots themselves, so they can experience firsthand the millions of things one's brain must gather before being able to even move a polygon.

[@kmt4372]

One solution, unionize the VFX industry.

[@techscw]

By and large, I don’t think movie studios neglect to pay and respect vfx because they are ignorant of the level of effort, they treat it that way because of how they value vfx(as a commodity) that is easy to get, and already seem to them very expensive. I think there are probably two things that could help, one that was mentioned was unionization. The second is likely to be equipped with better lawyers so that value is better captured in the contracts written paying out residuals and royalties.

[@pisscvre69]

Something ive never understood is how seamlessly you guys mix the digital and real, especially like hair how can you possibly make the hair of a real person and a digital background fit together perfectly? Is it like going in and cleaning it up frame by frame? If so thats such an insane amount of work i could never do that but either way huge respect to yall and hope things get better those conditions are slavery not work

[@CrysiCrysis]

The vfx artists who are putting in these sorts of hours deserve so much adoration and support. Vfx work is not easy, it’s an extremely difficult job thats essential to so many projects. I think film leads, directors and dops and everything should have experience in the art and vfx side of things. They need to understand what they’re asking for. They need to comprehend how hard it is to start entirely over. Delay movies if they’ll take too long. Don’t reveal release dates until you know the work can be finished in time. “A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.” -Shigeru Miyamoto Better to be released well and without harming your artists at some point in the future than rush them, hurt employees, and make the industry suffer.

[@samuelsolomon7330]

I think Jerry Seinfeld put it best when he was working on Bee movie. "But my kids want me to do it, a lot of people want me to do it. A lot of people that don't know what animation is want me to do it. If you have any idea what animation is, you'd never do it."

[@samjane3500]

Am I missing something? Why wouldn't Jerry do Bee Movie? Does he believe these roles should go to professional voice actors or is it something about animators?

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@samjane3500 Originally the Bee Movie was pitched as a joke. The animation process turned out to be harder than he expected.

[@samjane3500]

@@icecreamhero2375 Ohhh I see. He was totally right then, that movie was not worth all the effort even if it had some chuckle worthy gags.

[@UncleJemima]

​@@samjane3500 wym i've watched Bee Movie three times per day every day since it was released on VHS and i don't plan on stopping any time soon 🐝

[@Clarence_Oddbody]

Matt and Trey have said if they knew how hard Team America was going to be to make, they never would have done it.

[@HeadOfDarkForebodings]

Everything about this is spot on. One aspect of the crisis that doesn't get as much attention is the engineers (as opposed to the artists). VFX companies have turned increasingly to automation and tech not only to enhance the visuals of their work but to maintain their flexibility and increase output while reducing the reliance on crunch or over-burdening artists. It's stunning how much more an entry-level engineer can make in tech compared to a well-seasoned vet in M&E (media and entertainment). I'd argue there are few environments as challenging or complex for software engineering as a modern, distributed VFX pipeline. Tooling and automation in these environments always need to be carefully orchestrated and often insanely elaborate to thread the needle of the user, cost, and technical needs while still being stable with low (or zero) active maintenance and a UX that caters to semi-technical users. Data passes through dozens of software packages as it is processed, and each transformation needs to be accurate, deterministic, widely replicable, tracked, published, and available instantly on-demand worldwide. Not only are engineers underpaid, but there is always a shortfall of engineering resources. Engineering teams are persistently buried under a backlog of critical tasks pushed by groups forced to compete for your time and attention. You're there to help artists, but you have to get very used to telling them no. You may try to help folks on the sly, but you have to be careful it doesn't snowball and overwhelm you. And the first thing on the chopping block is investing in the workflow and tooling for the engineers themselves, which only reinforces the cycle. It only gets worse when there is significant technical debt to address. Studios rely on keeping their artists working on billable projects. They maintain multiple productions running in parallel, each (ideally) with offset schedules to maximize workforce and infrastructure utilization and smooth out costly crunch/crash cycles. This scheduling eliminates any downtime to perform major restructuring or system upgrades. Even minor changes require careful orchestration to minimize day-to-day disruption. Significant overhauls take years of planning and carefully staged development and testing negotiated with the same productions that would prefer to spend their already-limited budgets on anything they can point to more directly on-screen or show off to a director. "You never have time to do it right, but you always have time to do it over." Studios have turned to more collaborative and open-source engineering efforts to combat this. That's been an enormous boon in many ways, and I think it can be a model for how such a highly competitive industry can still collaborate to lower costs and raise the quality bar for everyone. But it also means upgrades have to be coordinated not only between multiple projects within studios but between multiple studios and even sub-industries (see, Py2 -> Py3 and vfxplatform.com/). These engineers work in VFX for the same reasons the artists do; they just bring a different skill set to the table. They love the creative energy, contributing to something positive, and building cool things. These engineers are happy to take the pay cut to work in the industry ... but only to a point. Engineers are often the first to flee a sinking ship, only to watch their friends with fewer opportunities continue to suffer. Most engineering talent I've seen bails by their mid-20s, the exception usually being select specialists furthest-removed from production with the most ability to establish their own working boundaries and set (more) reasonable delivery timelines. But that's not the environment you got into this for, and you're *still* way underpaid. I think this is a complex and often under-examined aspect of VFX (and video game) production that is contributing more to this crisis than people realize. And it's entirely driven by the same dysfunctional cost model.

[@xxxpyrosxxx]

Yeah funny thing is, as toxic as the gameindustry often is portrayed, they understand one critical thing, a project is always development and not production.

[@ooooneeee]

Thank you for this perspective, super fascinating. if the. vfx industry keeps operating like this they'll collapse. this isn't sustainable. it's a race to the bottom.

[@shcdemolisher]

@@ooooneeee As it should be honestly. It needs a crash and revival where things are better for the people working in it.

[@Chibi_Sashi]

This is all so accurate!! I’ve worked at two different post production hours and can attest to all of this! The terrible working hours with no extra pay, terrible clients/directors/producers that have no idea the work that goes into post production/animation etc, they think you press a button and it just happens. I remember seeing guys working in comp and VFX would sleep at the office for days on end to meet deadlines.

[@DonIntiRosso]

VFX workers at Marvel have voted today, 7 Aug 2023, to unionize. Godspeed.

[@DreamFearless]

Explains the quality drop. 😂

[@frogtank4407]

It warms my heart to know that, as somebody who's in college for graphic design and visual editing, I'm not going to get paid very well and have to deal with 100 hour weeks.

[@rhaelicent]

Not in college/uni yet, but as someone who loves editing and has done it for many years now, it really is sad. I feel like all my dreams are crushed before I even have a chance to pursue them, because if it’s like this, is it even worth it? Doesn’t matter if it’s the only thing I somewhat know how to do or not.

[@lment333]

I am passionate about many aspects of Computer Engineering but now I work in a call center because there was no point in pursuing my passion.

[@el6807]

Wait, I didn’t even find paid internships when I studied in uni for design 😭

[@frogtank4407]

@@el6807 I ain't talking about internships. I'm talking about shitty work conditions in the real job.

[@mikesmovingimages]

Your college should have warned you.

[@Oct8pus]

This needs to be a full length documentary. Only through public dissemination can things change

[@mostfrozenburrito]

I’ve dipped my toes into animation before. I loved it but it is SO TIME CONSUMING. I came around to a special appreciation for the people who do that for a living and I just can’t believe they’re getting screwed over like this. They do amazing incredible work but constantly get taken for granted. It’s unbelievable

[@mikesmovingimages]

They would if they demanded it. Or just stopped working on the project after delivering the agreed-upon product.

[@SolRise_yt]

So I'm not an industry animator yet (I get my bachelor next year) but having teachers that come up to us and tells us ful out how bs big companies like Disney and their properties of marvel will treat us is not very motivating. I know the industry I'm going into is going to scam me and the fact that I will be a junior animator, aka, I can't say no to a job cause my career depends on it. It's the seniors and upper animators that need to take a stand and leave projects that are just unfair to the workforce

[@mostfrozenburrito]

@@SolRise_yt oh man. I wish you the best in your career. I have a lot of respect for you and I hope there is some change soon so that your workload is not unbearable

[@qwertydavid8070]

This really is the main problem. The people that helm these productions have no empathy for those below them because they have NO IDEA of what the process is actually like. It's like those youtube movie reviewers that judge every single pixel and frame of a movie and say the entire movie is trash if there's a small mistake, or those game reviewers that point out a small visual bug and act like it completely ruins the entire experience. My personal goal has always been to try a little bit of everything, or to at least inform myself about how things work, even if it's just on a surface level. The goal is to be respectful and be aware of your lack of knowledge, don't speak on behalf of others, don't act like those Reddit pseudoprofessionals that think they're experts on a topic because they watched a youtube video essay about it. Don't let the Dunning-Kruger effect take hold of you, just assume that there's always something you don't know and you'll be fine. You find yourself more respecting of the immense amount of effort and complexity that goes behind almost every single aspect of life, and even the world itself too. I just wish more people actually had a passion for learning, learning is genuinely fun and magical and it can completely twist your entire perspective on things, and be more respectful and appreciative towards the small things in life no one pays attention to.

[@wartedgaming6162]

@@mostfrozenburrito never thought of that 😮

[@kasaibouF29]

Godzilla Minus One was a vindication to VFX artists everywhere because that film was VFX heavy yet looks great because the director and writer was also the visual effects director, and he trotted through every hardship with his team. That Oscar was well deserved.

[@jamesderiven1843]

An important thing to note is part of the reason Rise of Skywalker had to go outside ILM compared to the Phantom Menace is the degree to which that company has been completely gutted over the years, shifting to the exact kind of gig-economy, short-term-contract model that hollows-out companies, leaves experienced employees high and dry, and ultimately ends-up with a company that can't do a fraction of the work it used to be able to do, changing trends or no. ILM can do less now that it could do on Phantom Menace twenty-five years ago because of how butchered it's been.

[@Unfamiliar_Fruit]

As someone who works in practical effects, I have an immense amount of respect and admiration for our brothers and sisters in visual effects and the insane amount of work they put in to turn a vision into a finished production.

[@DKGCustom]

As an Emmy award winning VFX artist... great video. Thankfully I now work as a lone wolf who is not tied to the studio system, but it does mean I'm also out of sight of nearly all productions

[@prony5145]

I know how it felt like to work on 'Cats' in 2019 for long nights and at the end of the year most of the artists got retrenched from their jobs including me, it affected the lives of many artists in the vfx industry. The job loss went on until later in 2020 by when more than 500 artists were let go, they blamed covid for it but we knew it all started with Cats. It destroyed the lives of many having no job in the middle of a pandemic where there were no jobs almost anywhere throughout the industry. Sometimes I regret to have chosen this industry to feed myself but it's too late now as I can't go back to my younger self and convince myself to look for another source of income.

[@cowl6867]

I had no idea how terrible the vfx industry is right now. Thanks for bringing much needed light to it. Also thanks Keanu for being the unsung hero you are

[@honer777]

Could you imagine if below the line workers got profit sharing?! The toxic attitude of “just do you job” or “if you don’t like it go somewhere else” needs to end. The industry needs to understand below the line workers have lives and families and love their jobs and should be supported as such. I hope vfx unionizes.

[@RichardThompsonCA]

Sadly can confirm, this parallels the commercial illustration industry perfectly. Artist's are treated the worst no matter how they make it.

[@Tokru86]

The cause of the issue is, that artists want to do their job because they like being artists and therefore suck up much of the bad things. Try that in a profession where everyone knows that nobody really likes doing it and only does it for the paycheck. If you treat them badly or pay too little you have a real problem finding people to do the job. With artists it's the complete opposite. Theay WANT to do the job and sadly get exploited for it.

[@SolRise_yt]

Same with us animators. Producers doesn't see the amount of work things take. Artists will always be unpaid and unappreciated

[@SolRise_yt]

@@Tokru86 I sadly have to agree with what you are saying.. our work is also often our hobbies or passions.. and that can ironically cripple us

[@pkplayz7711]

Fun fact: when a VFX artist works with enthusiasm and fun he creates a masterpiece!

[@Pers0n97]

Another proof that Kaenu Reeves is a great guy that always threat the rest of his team with respect, from FX team to stuntmen.

[@alexman378]

Yup, and ten years later, those stuntmen gave him his biggest career boost, with one of the most influential action franchises of the 2010s (which now continues in the ‘20s). Funny how karma works, isn’t it?

[@carlosiespinozab]

I came looking for the Mr Nice Guy comment. Wholesome Keanu is wholesome, as usual.

[@BL00DeMoN]

this was happening in the gaming industry for 20 years already... feels like workers need unions to support them. damn, you talked about it at the end.. nice, big respect!

[@UnknownName5050]

All that will do is cause another block between studios and artist and make it worse. I wish you people would learn about unions. They’re not co-ops- they’re corps.

[@scaryhobbit211]

@@UnknownName5050 Unions are just another layer of bureaucracy added to a shit sandwich - one that pretty much steals a chunk of your wage against your will and gives your money to the big wigs running the union, with zero improvements actually going back to the employees. Frankly, the *only* way things will improve is if the offending studios like Marvel go bankrupt, and people who respect vfx employees form their own companies. People need to realize that the *entire film industry* is diseased and needs to collapse in order to see any improvement .

[@kirani111]

Unionizing is the best way these artists can help themselves. I need to look more into why they don't have a union, but the artists working in visual development have their pay and treatment very well protected by the Animation Guild.

[@nailati]

Absolutely!

[@fumblztv8979]

I love the fact that your comment about moving forward in a way that solves problems has so few likes and the ones whinging about how everybody else is the bad guy have hundreds, even thousands.

[@Dumbird0]

@@fumblztv8979 People prefer to complain rather than take action.

[@NyJoanzy]

The VFX got started up no long after the Reagan era in America. So most of the start ups were done by people who had very negative views on collectivism//democracy and thought their skills alone would be enough to avoid exploitation and counter a power imbalance.

[@rebeccan7276]

absolutely. they (the industry) won't change unless hit where it hurts.

[@danielmcomie2511]

God this was incredibly well made and edited!! The point about VFX being effectively invisible and expected in cinema nowadays, adding to how misunderstood VFX work is done has just increased how unknown these artists are being pushed to burnout. Unionization for VFX artists must happen, and very soon.

[@nicklyskawa3504]

The best edited videos are the ones that make you think “how did they do that?” I was asking myself this the entire runtime. I continue to be beyond impressed and inspired by your work!

[@glennwatson3313]

I disagree. To me the best videos are the ones where you don't even think about the editing.

[@brainwashalpha5495]

the editing in this video was pretty noticeable and distracting. i felt motion sick after some of the shaky and blurry effects

[@AlexLove631]

I think the issue is a mix of not taking the proper time needed and mistreating your workers. Let’s look at two huge movies like The Batman and Spider-Man: No Way Home, for example. The Batman got delayed due to covid, giving VFX artists more time, and the result speaks for itself. I’d say that movie is pretty seamless through and through. Spidey on the other hand has some iffy shots because they really tried to make that December 2021 release. And while most of the movie still looks pretty good, there’s some stuff that doesn’t. The movie was still being worked on when it released lol. Studios need realistic timelines with realistic work schedules for VFX houses. 40 hour work week with OverTime IF wanted. Treat your artists like the human beings they are.

[@kropianimation1774]

I don't know if The Batman is good example here. As you said, the movie got delayed because of Covid. Not because the studio recognized that the VFX artitst needed more time.

[@AlexLove631]

@@kropianimation1774 right, but there’s like an hour long interview on the Dolby KZbin channel with Matt Reeves and the producers where they acknowledge that the extra time was a blessing for everyone working on the film to get everything polished. They’re aware that more time is always good. There’s a reason Matt’s films always look great.

[@kropianimation1774]

@@AlexLove631 Of course more time is a blessing. The creative process with deadlines kind of works that way, that people will contiune to work on something untill you rip it from their hands. So as long as one has time, one will polish. The pandemic was a very unique situation, where films suddenly had another year or two for post-production. I'm sure that if Warners had believed that October 2021 was the better release date for the film business-wise, they probably would have put it there. I don't think it was intentional to give the post-production team more time.

[@AlexLove631]

@@kropianimation1774 it obviously wasn’t intentional but my point is look at the end result. More time is always better and filmmakers know that. Most do anyway. This is a studio problem.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Don't forget that Jon Watts was just given a crash course in VFX. Matt Reeves actually knows his stuff, having director 2/3 of the Apes trilogy and Cloverfield.

[@felphero]

I worked with digital art, but the 2D kind nothing as fancy as CGI. And yeah even small me has experienced quite a lot of "pixel f*cking", clients just don't seem to make up their minds it's INSANELY frustrating. A solution a coworker of mine eventually institute was a limited amount of changes to artwork (but I doubt you can do that with DISNEY haha). I can't begin to imagine how dishartening having to throw away months of 3D work must be

[@aliensoup2420]

It's just another painful part of the process. Film crews of the past spent days working on a scene, using sets and costumes that required weeks or months of work, only to be left on the cutting room floor, and never seen by the audience. It is one thing to be properly compensated for one's time and labor, and another to accept the realities of the business.

[@kjr4946]

That's the same in most client-facing businesses! It's something you just have to get used to. In the end, once you're getting charged for your time on reworking, it's all about what the client wants.

[@Shadowonwater]

rip, the limited changes idea is a good one. You should go with that. Also sorry about the other 2 replies, I don't know about you, but I know I hate when people basically say "just deal with it". People should be allowed to vent without being told that.

[@kjr4946]

@@Shadowonwater I didn't mean to be dismissive of what they were saying, as it's something that used to upset me too. But eventually I had to stop taking the requested changes so personally, and understand that I was being paid to implement what the client wanted, not what I wanted, or what I thought was best. It's unavoidable that a client is going to change their mind while you're working on a project, so allowing yourself to be upset by it each time is slowly going to wear you out.

[@aliensoup2420]

@@Shadowonwater Yeah, nobody should ever have to face disagreement with their ideas.

[@Mugruokgt]

I'm so glad that more awareness is created around this issue. My life was ruined to the ground when I was still working in the VFX industry - all the years of hard work, extremely expensive equipment, education and so on... Now I've re-invented myself as a digital marketer - throwing all those years away and starting over. Better late then never. The job as a visual creative worker can be so beautiful... I whish that nobody loses 10 years of their career like I did.

[@phoenixflamegames1]

I wish you the best of luck in your career. You deserve it