The Waco Siege | Red Thread

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Welcome to The Red Thread, a podcast series where three friends (Charlie, Isaiah and Jackson) investigate the peculiar space just beyond reality. Cryptids, Conspiracies, Cults and more are on the investigation board and nothing is off limits. What will they discover? There's only one way to find out...
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This is Episode #7, where we discuss The Waco Siege.
Originally recorded 14/02/24.
Show Notes:
drive.google.c...
Hosts:
Charlie - moistcr1tikal
Isaiah - wendigoon8
Jackson - zealotonpc
Writer/Editor/Producer: Jackson Clarke
Music by: linktr.ee/zayaLT
Designer: www.jr-design-c...
Produced under The Official Podcast Network
Contact (business only): [e-mail]

[@kyleh3615]

And remember kids... Whenever someone tells you, 'The government wouldnt do that' Oh yes they would

[@Mikeygamer1]

Yeah pretty much, i like to say "they probably have" in response to that. might not have been done in their own country but they probably did it to a different one

[@miike2]

and they usually know full well how the US govt tends to fiddle and do crazy stuff in FOREIGN countries, so the dissonance of them thinking they would do this kind of stuff elsewhere and not in the US where they have way more power and freedom to act is disingenuous at best

[@ishouldfindagoodname2416]

I love the “oh yes” at the end there. Like, not only did they do it, they’re kinda proud of it.

[@kyleh3615]

@@ishouldfindagoodname2416 it's a quote from Wendigoon on either the Philippine vampire or his Waco video

[@drunkenhobo8020]

I also think things like the Waco massacre are an excellent argument against grand elaborate conspiracy theories. Just look at incidents like this, Ruby Ridge, Kent State etc. All complete and totally botched cock-ups where dozens of people died. And all the government does is go "nuh-uh, we did good". They don't go to any effort to cover things up - they just do it and then blatantly lie.

[@irresponsiblecaptain851]

Don't worry guys the ATF investigated this and determined that the ATF was not to blame

[@emilydiekemper3161]

In my experience, this is what every federal agency does: The CDC, the FDA, the FBI. They all investigate themselves and always find that they didn't do anything wrong. That system obviously doesn't work.

[@Kian-gc4rs]

Phew thank god

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

Yeah and for the millionth time you all have reflexively laughed and disregarded the millionth sincere attempt I have made to engage the speculations that I can actually answer: Shaun bunds is a person. I am that person. I'm getting so tired of you all being so incorrigible and incredulous? Why? Why are you like this?

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

Shaun bunds=wisdom day=koresh's fourth son , and there's two others alive. You're all no better than the fed in your gaslighting and gatekeeping. Why do you like being wrong?

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

Assholes

[@OtisCluck]

ATF: “We gotta save those kids” Also ATF: _kills all of said kids_ ATF: “We did it!”

[@BunkerAnon]

Scumbag they wanted to make head of the ATF had a pic of himself standing proud over their smoldering remains

[@americankid7782]

*most

[@MamadNobari]

To be fair they saved them from a life of misery.

[@Dead-dudes]

​@@MamadNobariyeah, fuck'em. Amiright?

[@jennylee6421]

@@MamadNobariyeah by taking away any chance at life at all

[@gabadaba5436]

It will always be funny to me how, in their attempt to undo their Ruby Ridge fuck up, the ATF did an even bigger fuck up, and now people think of Waco instead of Ruby Ridge when the ATF is brought up.

[@dylancor4205]

Sort of worked in a way if you think about it

[@Zacmaster78]

@@dylancor4205yeah, like if I slip and fall and people laugh, so the next day I shit myself in first period to make them forget

[@thebiggusdonnus8453]

Perfect ​@@Zacmaster78

[@Skankhunter420]

Pepperidge farm remembers

[@jgriffin9084]

That's the government in a nut shell

[@sirreadsalot6654]

The idea of just a person busting out the guitar and shredding to the ATF as they literally raid him is metal as hell. Terrible guy, metal af moment

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

It's pathetic fantasy, useless

[@notahumanbeing6892]

@@PerfidiousAdrianwhat’s your problem lmfao

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

@@notahumanbeing6892 read my comment below

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

@@notahumanbeing6892 Making villains into martyrs is propaganda and revisionist. I wouldn’t let Jesus Christ himself delude me to this level

[@jorge9142011]

That fraakin hard tho. Even tho he crazy mf. He can play hell out of that guitar lmaoo

[@LastLinkTitan]

I fucking lost it at “Is he coming back with a vengeance?”

[@mybirdsareangry1]

Ok

[@TheSlammurai]

Die Hard: Rapture The tag-line is Say your prayers. The movie poster is Charlie in a white robe, standing by a cliff with an AR-15 in one hand and a Bible in the other, with light shining down on him.

[@alphooey]

@@TheSlammuraithat is basically Isaiah just in an Hawaiian shirt.

[@FatherPun]

For real, it cracked me tf up 🤣

[@jettfuelfitness]

Tbf if you knew nothing about Christianity it’d be a fair assumption

[@tabbitee]

The ATF heard an acorn bounce off the roof

[@ca44444]

Beautifully deep cut 😂 😭

[@ChatMort69420]

😂😂😂

[@daniel_eatswater2407]

lmao 😆

[@orionbarnes1733]

They shot at the acorn in self defense, Scrat the squirrel has a dangerous criminal history

[@viablos455]

oh my god this is one of the most amazing analogies yet lmao perfect timing

[@Cnerf55]

Jackson’s “is he coming back with a vengeance?” Killed me! I’ve got this image of Jesus as a 80’s action hero in my head and it is glorious!

[@JaredLetoSelfSuck]

😂😂😂😂

[@JaredLetoSelfSuck]

Rambo jesus is hilarious

[@creativename724]

The bible 2: not cruci-fuckin' around!

[@AMikeStein]

He looks like John Rambo with a beard in my head.

[@kevindorn2508]

"So you just interrupted me to tell me i should continue?" was pretty funny

[@brax7152]

I can’t wait to hear Jackson’s opening monologue next time. “You’re an average office worker, working from 9 to 5 to support your family you love dearly. That day it was the secretaries birthday, so everyone gathered in the conference room to have some cake and give her small presents. She opened a small box from Jeff and is glad to see a gift card to a restaurant she likes. You finish your cake and go back to your desk to wrap up some work. Your manager then comes up to you, asking to stay a bit later that day just to finish some extra paperwork, you say sure. You finish up and head out. On your way home you stop at McDonalds to grab a McDouble. This is the same McDonalds where the homeless man broke the window a couple months back. It got reported on the local news. You eat your McDouble as you drive and stop at a stop light, you look to the left lane on the opposite side of the intersection and see a green sedan. It’s a pretty nice car. You’ve been considering getting a new car anyways and imagine driving that one. When the light turns green you go forward and arrive at your house. As you walk in the door you hear noises coming from your room. You rush to the bedroom and kick open your door only to see your wife sleeping with the neighbor. You file for divorce but your wife is able to make up false evidence that your an abusive heroin addict, so she gets full custody of the kids and you must pay her child support. Eventually the stress takes a toll on you, so you rent a motel room where you decide to end your life. You watch a little bit more tv before deciding to shoot your self in the head. You cock the gun and just as you pull the trigger, 200 miles away Jeffrey Dahmer is born.”

[@alacritysp]

Wait stop... this is... too real..

[@ianbuchan8548]

"I am so mad that the wife could just get away with that!" -Isaiah "She really committed a General Shepherd level betrayal didn't she?" -Charlie

[@limner123]

His openings are more like “a short film that plays before the feature” all the time, and I love it.

[@CodeeXD]

Damn so dude reincarnated as jeff?

[@sadierose2890]

“…evidence that *YOU’RE* an abuuuusive heroin addict…” YOU’RE: means “You Are” YOUR: means possessive, like “your mistake” or “your opinion” or “your grammar”. EX: You’re learning about Your proofreading process from Your YT friends and You’re looking great whilst You’re doing it. 🌈🪬

[@CosmicVenus239]

When Wendigoon goes on his rants about the ATF you can feel the pure anger, frustration, and disappointment he feels about them... It's honestly beautiful

[@VentSaviour]

First it was Epstein, then the Zodiac Killer, and now Waco, the frustration is real

[@ManOfEthnicity]

@@VentSaviour He gets pretty angry at the end of his Uncle Ted video, like to a level I've never seen him so upset before.

[@DarthT15]

The ATF fucking suck.

[@slotherchad1173]

Gooooood. Let the hate flow through you.

[@G_Zilly]

The atf should be abolished or reformed from the bottom up

[@WalebCaleb]

The amount of research Jackson compiles is honestly impressive considering how often this show comes out.

[@hannasaynwittgenstein-berl6931]

haven't watch this one yet, i thought its gonna be all wendi research since he made a video about this but honestly idk how jackson did it, how many Pages for Heavens gate ? 48 ? i wonder if this one gonna top that one

[@benjboiplays5403]

@@hannasaynwittgenstein-berl6931he’s insane

[@mckaylascott6458]

He really goes in 100% ❤

[@StopToBreathe]

I think he already has some of these topics prompts developed beforehand because of that one podcast where Jackson tried to sell Charlie a video game idea. It just makes it look like he's a genuine guy who researches these interesting topics on his free time and now there is an outlet where he can share his research.

[@redwiltshire1816]

Tbf most the sources are public so it’s only collecting the credible ones reading through then writing up the document he probably does it the second the episode ends

[@spencergross7244]

I cant believe wendigoon, charlie, and jackson were all found dead by suicide with 134 stab wounds, 3 gunshots to the back of the head, and polonium-210 found in their system.

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

At the bottom of a pool in LA

[@Boreragnorak185]

suicide is a real problem these days

[@fluffcake]

At least the ATF has absolutely nothing to do with this! They said so themselves

[@biohazard5ful]

This is why i loved my highschool histery teacher and why i got into researching american history and world history. He would steer away from the curriculum and go off on tangents about all these controversial points in american history,taught us about waco, ruby ridge, the history of clearwater, the japanese keeping chinese prisoners all of it

[@collinb.8542]

Sounds like a dope teacher lol.

[@lynn4840]

frustrating that teachers like that seem to be the minority, but dude sounded cool. also unrelated but i wonder if they'd do an episode about unit 731, speaking of Japanese prison camps...

[@meganhill453]

I had a high school history teacher like that too. He went “off script” a lot of times and taught us so much. We always joked he was part of the “CIA” because he seemed to know so much inside stuff. I’m still not convinced he wasn’t.

[@Potatoesop]

@@meganhill453meanwhile my HS history teacher mentioned that the portables that our classroom was originally owned by a mini cult that often engaged in orgies…

[@minecraftjunky2001]

Ruby Ridge is worthy of its own episode. It's even more infuriating than this story, if you can believe that

[@weekendjail1417]

I second this.

[@TheWalkingDude27]

You mean a white supremacist got his shit fucked up by the government. Yes the government fucked up. But Weaver was selling guns to other white supremacists.

[@shaggydestroyerofworlds2208]

True, with Waco at least you can make the argument that the leader of the cult was really bad. With Ruby Ridge they straight up murdered the innocent wife and son of an innocent man because he cut the barrel of a shotgun a few inches short. Fuck the ATF.

[@Nickyd.]

I third this. It's beyond enraging

[@brandondabbs2593]

Absolutely, and Waco was literally perpetrated as an easy target to try and right their name and make their careers. So messed up.

[@bobrubins8976]

I spent a summer in Waco and thought it would be funny to go visit the ruins of the compound. Before I went, all I knew was baseline, cult bad things got ugly, and that the only thing left was the pool, so I wanted to go and get a glass of water from the pool. When I went, it turned out that the 7th Day Adventists built a new church on the property. I thought it would be abandoned, but there was a man giving a sermon outside and the pool was turned into a koi pond. He talked about how that what the Branch Davidian’s did was misguided, but what the government did was equally wrong, and talked about how we need to accept responsibility for our actions and be more thoughtful. It was a real eye opening experience, that these events affected real people and people still have to live with the consequences, even if the government tries to hide it.

[@paulhammer4941]

Saying the government was “equally wrong” in terms of the surge is like saying shooting someone is a reasonable response to them stealing a garden gnome.

[@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind]

​@paulhammer4941 Absolutely The whole situation could have just been David being picked up during his daily breakfast trip to McDonald's.

[@Teethmafia]

@@paulhammer4941you don’t do that. You tie the gnome to the shotgun trigger in advance boobytrap style. Then it’s technically a suicide.

[@Scudboy17]

​@paulhammer4941 Have you been to Texas? The gun nuts down here are just itching for an excuse to shoot someone. They would shoot you over a droppped penny if the think they could get away with it. I had a neighbor who shot at 2 would be burglars in his backyard, wounding both, one died of blood loss before help could arive. What had they been trying to steal? A potted plant in the backyard. A fricken poinsettia was worth a dudes life. My neighbor was convicted of 2nd degree manslaughter, but only spent 5 years in jail out of a 10 year sentence. One of the pieces of evidence they used at his trial was a post he made on Facebook stating, "he wished a MF would." I'm a gun owner myself and support the 2nd Ammendment, but way too many gun owners are just looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

[@evilevilcritter]

And that guy tooooootally doesn't molest and abuse kids and plan group suicides

[@mtathos_]

Jackson be like: " You wake up from a drowsy wet autumn morning, when you smell the fumes of bacon, you think it's your mother cooking hog but you look around and realize, you compound has been raided and burned down by a swat team!!!!"

[@dvaerggrisene]

You look in the mirror and realize... you were Jeffrey Epstein all along.

[@juiceyborger]

"horrified, you look into a puddle, and you see him - koresh..."

[@lL338]

​@@juiceyborger I think he'd be a fun DM.

[@eliasjimenez461]

Oh well.... *starts munching on bacon*

[@koyokoyo3797]

"your mother cooking hog" I can officially say lmao and it actually be true for once because I almost pissed myself

[@haydenc7553]

As a high school student myself. 911 is the only thing mentioned within the last 40 or 50 years.

[@bigschmill294]

Right? I remember a small tiny blurb of Waco but it was very skimmed over. I'm 30 now, graduated in 2012, and I remember getting to the War or Terror and Obamas election. But since we basically lives through all that, it was very skimmed over as well

[@matthewbledsoe3506]

There's some crazy things that happened in the 90s. Unabomber, Mass shootings, North Hollywood shoot out, jus things today, you have to look everywhere to kinda get a picture. Divide and conquer

[@bliss7470]

First week: Holocaust Second Week: Black History Few weeks after that: The BIG Tests

[@BritBox777]

@@bliss7470 The scary part is, I'm from the UK and this was -exactly- the same topics we got in school.

[@original1nage]

i kinda love that all the thumbnails look like the charlie and jackson are completely tuned out and wendigoon is actively losing his mind

[@3mate1]

My dad worked in the defense industry as a computer engineer for over 40 years designing weapon guidance systems for the military. The end of the Waco siege was the only day I ever saw him take off of work without being sick, and he was pissed at the government for what they did. He wasn't the kind of guy to sympathize with a cult but to see the jack booted thugs fuck that place up in revenge for the shoot out which the ATF started really made him mad. He couldn't believe the Feds were using Military equipment on a bunch of women and children like that.

[@JesusChrist-er3ly]

Yeah. He really showed them he was pissed by calling off for one day lol

[@nothanks9503]

My buddy is a hardcore almost culty Christian and also a decorated army vet his opinion is mistakes were made on both sides some very substantial mistakes but at every opportunity to improve the situation people on both sides failed so barring a few mistakes the government didn’t really have much of a choice like yeah the mistakes could have been avoided but once they were made it’s not like they could just pack up and go home ceding US territory to a cult essentially imagine if that became a normal thing

[@JesusChrist-er3ly]

@nothanks9503 I should add, as a caveat, that David Koresh wasn't the best person. And he probably should've gone to jail. But as a GOVERNMENT ENTITY you are in a position to uphold the law. Which means you must ALWAYS be a great example of doing things the right way. Burning women and children alive in a bunker is not the right way dude.

[@JesusChrist-er3ly]

@nothanks9503 also you say "at every available opportunity to improve the situation Both sides failed" well alright bro, ask your buddy this. If I break into your house, and demand you let me rummage through your shit, and inevitably shit goes south and I murder you, could I say "well it wasn't exactly like HE tried to deesclate the situation either!!" Like what? The ATF came onto their land and want to claim they shot first, even tho they sure had a lot of military grade vehicles nearby to use, then they burned their women and kids to death after shooting almost all the males, and your buddy wants to talk about "well both sides didnt mediate" I mean, is your buddy fucking stupid?

[@JesusChrist-er3ly]

@nothanks9503 also, your buddy says "at every opportunity to improve the situation people on both sides failed, so the gov didn't have much choice." Like okay, ask your buddy this, if I break into his house, and demand to rummage through his shit, when it inevitably goes south, if i kill him, can I claim "well he didn't try to improve the situation either!" And get out of jail free? No. The ATF came onto LEGALLY bought land. With fucking Bearcats and swat vehicles, ready for a siege. Your bud knows it, I know it, the ATF knows it, everyone knows it. They claimed the Davidians fired the first shot, but although almost the entire siege was recorded, that part was "mysteriously" lost. As well as a boatload of other evidence. Then, after shooting and killing most of the males, they set the compound on fire. Burning and killing kids. The ATF shouldnt exist. And your buddy is a bootlicker if he really feels this way man.

[@nefwaenre]

If there's anything history has taught.. it's that it was NEVER to save kids, NEVER for the kids' safety.

[@BunkerAnon]

Yea it's never "For the Children"

[@deleted4486]

It's never 'in the child's best regards"

[@irresponsiblecaptain851]

They wanted the kids safe insofar as they could testify against their parents, and no further

[@Uploaded1995]

It's because the people involved saw the allegation of child abuse as an excuse to go shoot an evil cult leader on TV, not as an opportunity to save the children.

[@nefwaenre]

@@irresponsiblecaptain851 yeah exactly!

[@platinumbacon]

“clearly the strategic excellence and negotiating abilities of the FBI is just beyond your comprehension” really got me good

[@wehatemusicsomuch]

So ready for Jackson to be smart and Wendi to be funny and Charlie to sit in silence for three hours

[@valak9663]

so real for that 😂😂

[@sozakioshi]

Do not do Charles Christopher White Jr like that, bro only speak at Cr1tiKaL time.

[@The_Sharktocrab]

Nah Charlie makes the pop culture references

[@robocat2205]

Nah he has to meet his quota of 4 pop culture references per episode 😂

[@natebousquet-hatcher]

I feel like wendi is the smart one and Jackson’s the goofball lol

[@pledgebigmike2977]

"We did it, Patrick! We saved the city!" - ATF

[@emilyippolito3296]

Oh my god…is this where the joke about the ATF shooting your dog came from??? Did I just learn the beginning of major internet lore? Did not expect this from a lesson on Waco

[@MistaEdits]

It originates from Ruby Ridge, which shooting the family dog started that conflict as well ironically enough. ATF not beating the dog shooting accusations at all lmfao

[@SnafuFourTwo]

The ATF does legitimately designate agents to form a “dog kill team” whenever they do raids. Because you know, a dog is the biggest threat and most important thing to do first.

[@zucumberzeez]

I love how Isaiah is able to talk about Christianity with Charlie and Jackson so casually. It's so beautiful because someone's introduction to Christianity or someone's first time having it explained to them in a way that is educational rather than judgemental may have been through watching the Red Thread. Whether you're religious or not, having these kinds of conversations without making it a debate is so important. Thank y'all 🙏

[@LilithsRants]

that’s what this was for me. Genuinely having the christian lore explained (for lack of a better term) to me without someone being condescending about it is so refreshinf

[@zucumberzeez]

​@@LilithsRantsI'm glad to hear that 🙏

[@adenkyramud5005]

I grew up catholic but these days I wouldn't call myself religious. But hearing wendigoon talking about religion always gets me hooked and i can't stop. Even if i don't believe in it myself, it still helps me to understand other people better, especially my very religious grandmother.

[@czescwaszejpamiecizonierze7427]

​@@zucumberzeezI was an absolute atheist all my life and was raised by an old commi grandparents which made me hate the religion and an institution that is a church as a whole. But Wendi introduced Christianity to me for the first time through a completely different lens, by sporadic mentions throughout his videos, then by explaining Dante's Inferno, and Paradise Lost (which actually made me bust into tears at the end) and now through the weird bible podcast. It actually made me be on the fence about it now, and even though I still believe that the "institution" of a church and Vatican is evil, and the events in the bible might not be 100% true and a word of god. At least now I understand where they are coming from and for the very least, the stores in the bible are simply cool. P.S. idk why I wrote this, but here it is, and now let it stay on the internet forever 😂

[@ianbuchan8548]

Yo Wendidude does a podcast about it called the Weird Bible podcast. Go check it out it's hilarious and SO fascinating

[@MikeyaTaylor]

Jackson's intros are only improving with each episode. What a legend.

[@Buzzy_Bland]

They’re getting goofier and goofier.

[@firstprimehunter]

The epstein one is still my favorite

[@Selvinop94]

As if Ruby Ridge, Waco and their current uselessness weren’t reasons enough as to why the ATF should be disbanded and every member of it tried for constitutional violations, why are they STILL around?

[@firesb7791]

Government doesn't shrink by its own volition, it only expands itself

[@caseysaunders2168]

there are still dogs in the us

[@CantoniaCustoms]

Easy, because the feds and their supporters are just creaming at the thought to do it again.

[@mere7583]

Because we tolerate them.

[@lilgamedev]

Old people in suits are still around

[@ash.g155]

I grew up in a town about 2 hours away from Waco, and the first time I ever heard of the branch davidians or anything related to them was on Wendigoon’s channel. It boggles my mind that something so important, recent, and eventful has literally never been mentioned to me outside of the internet. For reference, I’m a college student now, and not even any of my friends had heard of it.

[@ash.g155]

As a side note, I just recently went through high school history classes, the furthest into US history we went was the election of Ronald Reagan

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

I really miss when his video did not exist. It has made my life much harder... The true crime community is very dismissive and do not care about the impact it has on people who do not fit their narrative shaped by wendigoon. honest opinion please? are you under the impression that because koresh did not release any of his children that all of them are dead? were they all there still by that time? had any of them left prior to the raid/siege? could it be possible their story and insights are incomplete?

[@dimsufferer9951]

⁠​⁠@@l_shaun_bunds_lliterally what are your talking about? If you don’t like this kind of content, don’t watch it, but don’t make strawman arguments in the comment section. Koresh was a monster, every single account paints him as a monster. You don’t marry a child as a full grown adult unless you’re a fucking monster. It doesn’t matter if there are other sides, it doesn’t matter if he was sometimes good to his ridiculous amount of kids, he was a sick pervert even if it’s disgusting how the government chose to put him down, with as much collateral damage as possible, but he needed to be put down.

[@user-vm6mw5xw7o]

I grew up in Waco. I went to middle school and high school in Waco. and I learned about it from talking to someone from out of state when I was like 16/17 who was like “omg you’re from waco? the cult place?” lmao

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

@@user-vm6mw5xw7o lol

[@punkins.wrld1127]

Yes, another 2 and a half hour video I can listen to on my 1hr and 15 min commute to work and home 🙏🥰 Don't ever shorten these

[@Buster-McTunder]

As someone who graduated in 2020, and took APUSH, I can say we stopped with the Fall of the USSR. Anything else was taught directly by my teacher

[@adamcuneo7189]

As someone who was in high school almost 6 years ago now, the school system was negative towards America in my experience, they went as far as to basically blame America for World War II and said that the Vietcong weren't communist, when they totally were.

[@dalisdiabolical]

class of 2023, i can corroborate that (i took apush and ap world)

[@ticos1235]

APUSH was taught by a Barron’s study guide and my teacher doing his research. I can agree with you lol

[@dillonwalshpvd]

@@adamcuneo7189 and how did the United States cause the Second World War more than three years before actually putting any troops on the ground?

[@adamcuneo7189]

@@dillonwalshpvd That's the point I'm trying to make, the schools are lying to kids, America didn't start World War II.

[@tsunderemerc2963]

It really sounds like the ATF was so eager to raid the compound they just made up excuses to make it happen. And it's the one time an evil guy was doing things completely legally.

[@notknown5950]

That’s was I kept in mind the whole podcast. Everything falls into place if you just keep that ulterior motive of a heroic win story in mind. This was all very calculated & not born out of incompetence but arrogance & desperation.

[@cryamistellimek9184]

Considering the ATF went in because of “children” when it’s not their jurisdiction should tell you everything.

[@guitarguru.3572]

@WonderMonkey-xp3xkas much as I don’t agree with a 20 some year old man marrying an early teenager, his unions were legal in Texas, as the parents gave their blessings. It certainly doesn’t make it right, but if we’re speaking about legality, he was operating within the confines of the law. Even if it weren’t, that’s not what the ATF has jurisdiction over.

[@guitarguru.3572]

They made some serious blunders in this event and burned the evidence.

[@guitarguru.3572]

@WonderMonkey-xp3xk he was absolutely a terrible person and was preying upon the naive. But, he should have been arrested while he was out jogging or playing music. As far as cult leaders go, he was fairly easy-going. Waco and Ruby Ridge felt like a heavily coordinated attempt to make examples of what happens when people arm up and self-sustain. The death and chaos was just senseless.

[@cornjesus2826]

We just went over the Waco case and a few others in my College criminal justice class! I am excited to see if they talk on anymore that I just learned about!

[@DrewbaccaStarWars]

Did it defend the ATF 💀

[@AyaRael]

I love how angry Wendi gets over these injustices. Finally someone who gets feral about it the right way! 🎉

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

honest opinion please? are you under the impression that because koresh did not release any of his children that all of them are dead? were they all there still by that time? had any of them left prior to the raid/siege? could it be possible their story and insights are incomplete? i wish he were angry enough to check his blind spots.

[@AyaRael]

@@l_shaun_bunds_l that's fair. Honestly, it's entirely possible. The Davidians were allowed to leave the compound freely before the seige. So it wouldn't surprise me if there are some children who survived. Sadly, we'll likely never know. I don't know that I'd say Wendi didn't do his due diligence. It may just be the information is hard to find.

[@agoodman1614]

@@l_shaun_bunds_lIf you research into the siege, you’ll find that Koresh had let any families wanting to leave, leave. At any time. If you want to blame someone, blame the parents of the kids for not leaving. 67 kids and adults survived because many of them fled with koresh’s permission beforehand.

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

​@@AyaRael Being Koreshs son and being that there are three of us alive, and insofar as I have reached out to him since before his original Waco video only to be called a schizo and have everyone argue with me endlessly about my very existence, I would say he didn't do a very good job... The best I can guess is he was warned by those like Thibs and the pseudohistorians who play scholar and imagine their speculations are worth more than our experiences and MEMORIES like Tauber. The difference between myself and all of them is we are a different ilk. We were always at odds with the very nature by which the event led to stubborn absolutism in the name of obfuscating failures. I am so tired of the silly good/bad guy dichotomies. I know even having set that question up, you will likely fail to realize my cadence and manner of engagement is easily verifiable, talking like this all over the internet for decades, and Shaun Bunds (Wisdom Day _______ no sign birth certificate because afraid of polygamy laws, but I have the dna, trauma, and broken family to be sure of it) is not a name that could be confused anywhere else. I am so tired of being silenced and so I have tried to work hard on myself and overcome the abuse and contempt that has destroyed my prospects, the jealousy and assumption I am intent on adversarial or angry discourse. I was subject to sexual abuse, racism (only white kid trying to belong to a community of council therapy bound state bureaucracy damaged older kids who would used adult gang tactics to terrorize me for perceived lack of respect, such as stripping me naked and beating me up so I couldn't run away and masturbating on me or the couch...) and the themes grow worse and more unbelievable and yet because some call me attractive or intelligent... (seriously I have had best friends dismiss their betrayal and failure to pay me back thousands because of things like jealousy and contempt despite having deeply wished for loyalty and understanding). I so much wish fair fairness and the absence of simple considerations, even for the most dismissible people, the teenager who predated on me, saying he was a doctor. He was a gay and effeminate acne ridden guy whose machismo father imposed mexican catholicism. That does not excuse his molesting me, and the fact I was treated like a snitch and disgusting for being victimized, parents now using that along with my whiteness to attack me.. causing me to retaliate and grow an extremely strong sense of identity, but while I may come off as angry or vulgar, I must believe in levity and the truth that all things are compromises and conditions of a hierarchy of loose principles and impulses, ideological and flimsy contentions are the worst measures by which we allow abstracts to determine things like purity. I do not even get to have my story as people imagine it is too unbelievable. Nobody wants to hear about a cult leaders son who isn't a nutcase, or schizophrenic without him tragically succumbing to his shame and the weight of the past. I laughed at everything, and I forgot to for a while recently, but I remember now. HAHAHAHA with love, Shaun, the schizophrenically appearing, loving of all rejected people, and those who are all too normal, not as a moral measure of self aggrandizement, not as a religious excuse for immortality, not for my perverse need to spread my grief and shame, but because I see the absurdity of avoiding humiliation, of hiding our needs and desires, of resentment and resentiment and how it poisons both ends of the endless spectrums of valuation by which our data sets categorize individuals and explain them away. The alphabet boys are still boys, and they wanted to do a good job. They can play masculine and competence, but they know their actions hurt the children they iamgined their deeds would free. I know they didn't mean it. But, they continue to sour our existence by their souls sold to victory and an oversimplified narrative. They may feel fine condemning the negligence and ignorance of those who were still loyal to my father, but they fucked me harder than any of the people who exploited my innocence later in life. They do not even realize how desperately they cling to a secular icon of piety, and how much has been lost to their charade. The same injustice of money and the state, and wars of attrition play out the same, and we pragamatically assume it is deserved, as doctors, lawyers, law enforcement, and so on. They are "just doing their jobs"...

[@zaqo-cc2yp]

​@@l_shaun_bunds_lI'm pretty sure Wendigoon angry because things shouldn't ended this way. ATF shouldn't unalived those kids just because they were there. Koresh usually went out like to the bar or somewhere before the siege. maybe if they really want to harm Koresh, better do it when he was alone. far from children.

[@Justin-fk6br]

"You never went to negotiation school" Is now my response to every argument. 😂

[@Isaiah-jm5fn]

I learned about waco senior year in high school. We also covered ruby ridge and the oklahoma city bombing. As well as 9/11. I think we touched on the gulf war as well. I graduated in 2019. Also they implied in class that the cultist tried to ignite the fire themselves. And never said anything about the atf corruption.

[@Squirreltasticqueen]

I graduated in 2008, and that's about where we left off, too. That's...not great, but at least in the current century.

[@SomeKindaSpy]

That's typical of our education system. It's corrupt.

[@kilboypwrhed]

I just graduated in 2022, and that’s crazy cool! We didn’t get any further than vietnam, but also my last history class was during covid with a teacher who did not care and had us do the typical Canvas courses. But I know in my school district it’s a very common experience to not get anywhere past the 60’s/70s…

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

Duh, of course they tried to teach ATF were good guys...because School Districts are notoriously Democrat and Waco was a case for Gun Control. David Chipman was at Waco as an ATF Agent...Biden tried to make him head of the ATF in 2021!

[@MySkybreaker]

I graduated in 2016 in a small georgia high school and it was ALL about the corruption when we learned about waco lmao

[@SpookyPhooka]

the worst thing to do to a doomsday cult is make their prophesies come true

[@carly709]

The ATF put those children through more abuse than likely anything they had experienced before at the compound. Not only did so many die in a horrific manner, they were also exposed to the spotlights, sounds, etc. for days. I can’t imagine how scary that must have been for those children. Who are the real child abusers here?

[@graon4880]

Came to learn about the hit religion “moonfall” Instead I learned off the hit 2022 blockbuster “the Waco siege”

[@johnnyawe1469]

I really like how this was a subject that Wendigoon was already very familiar with and made a video about. Him and Jackson having a lot of conversations with each other and sharing both of their knowledge of the situation was awesome to see. I mean, of course it happens quite a bit every episode, but it was happening a LOT this time. Probably my favorite episode of the podcast so far... And Charlie also existed.

[@biggie_slav7006]

The Las Vegas concert shooting has a bunch of conspiracies around it. I know it’s controversial but it would be super interesting to hear you guys cover it.

[@ShakenBake145]

This would be really interesting. I know next to nothing about this shooting and I've gone down a fair amount of YT rabbitholes on similar topics. Largest mass shooting in the country and I feel it's barely covered. Usually mass shootings would dominate the news cycles for weeks, I feel like the Vegas one faded away almost immediately.

[@jimbothetimbo6790]

@@ShakenBake145because neither side of the polar opposite party’s can rig it to benefit there own party, human blood spilled is only a tragedy if politicians can use it as a pawn for getting more voters

[@colby2027]

Yes please

[@ShakenBake145]

@jimbothetimbo6790 I thought Paddock had a manifesto of sorts? Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I thought he did put some sort of motivation out there. Not like either side needs much to make mountains out of molehills. I remember bump stocks being a big news piece around that time but that's about it.

[@liquidchris4147]

@@ShakenBake145 thats the thing, there was no manifesto, after all these years there is still no possible reason as to why the shooter did what he did. Even the shooters brother when he spoke up and said that it made no genuine sense and the government must be lying, was later arrested for possession of CP. many reports from survivors claim that it wasnt just the building where paddock was shooting from but that they had seen muzzle flashes from a helicopter that was flying nearby etc. wild stuff

[@m00str]

Great episode. Didnt watch it yet, but I still know.

[@Twofrogsonecup]

​@Strwbryy111any episode which doesnt include the grumpy weird accent guy is a good episode. hate that grumpy fart of a man

[@chuckclone24]

What you learn in us history classes is heavily dependent on where you go to school. I graduated in the 2010's and we were taught basically up to current year. We did BRIEFLY touch on waco. My teacher was actually very vocal about his distaste for America both at home and abroad.

[@klaatuNaatu]

Jackson does an incredible job on the research here every week, and I think it's so awesome that we have the notes in the description to read along with. It helps me a lot to lock into the discussion: Sometimes I get distracted with my other monitor or whatever else is going on, but I can keep up with the notes. Also great job on the intros, Jackson, they're often as hilarious as they are haunting and foreboding. Isaiah and Charlie are cool too.

[@DietSpine]

I can confirm as someone who graduated last year, they in-fact do show old news footage of 9/11 happening, uncensored and everything, and they do it every year.

[@dillonwalshpvd]

How many thuds did you hear?

[@fosternova4434]

Every. Single. Year. Uncensored, full volume, several different angles. Oftentimes, several different classes would show footage. Your whole day may end up consisting of watching people die. It's important to learn this stuff, but god damn.

[@Blewlongmun]

"nEvEr FoRgEt" You tell a bunch of school children the world is ending and they need to defend their country, then you resurface that trauma every year specifically reminding them it's unforgivable. The most Liberal people I know suddenly do a 180 on 9/11 because this country gave an entire generation PTSD with annual reminders. Someone bumps your shoulder so you haymaker them and hunt down their whole family right? That's normal, and justifiable... totally... What do you mean this country has a history of prejudice leading the economy? Us vs Them? pfff another liberal myth that's just a lie to distract you from the evil muslims. Sorry that's a rant, but it's not untrue.

[@Andrea-Art-Adventure]

Yep! I remember them showing this footage to us as 13 year olds. No option to opt out, no warning, no parental forms. One girl whose father had just committed suicide by jumping off an office building weeks before was forced to stay and watch.

[@Blewlongmun]

The amount of replies that get banned on this comment is hilarious.

[@mercaius]

"I don't know how anyone of any political spectrum can say--" The last six years have more than proven to me that the loudest people do not come to conclusions after reviewing the data they have, but merely make assumptions and then rationalize the data to fit their world views.

[@leotrollstoy2351]

It is shocking that the agents who were present were not all charged with the murders of everyone in the compound.

[@CodeeXD]

They're feds why would they ever be charged?

[@furrymessiah]

History is written by the victors. ...or swept under the rug.

[@commisaryarreck3974]

They're feds The government investigated itself and discovered it did nothing wrong

[@batsoupman1697]

What's more shocking is that they got promotions out of this 😂😂😂😂

[@jlo7770]

No its not they all have immunity and even more powerful immunity than what police get. It gets kicked back to fed court and they will never find their people guilty of anything. It's crazy people still be thinking big gov is good for the people.

[@Spartan_107Afterdark]

I didn't realize this until I saw the compound. The game Rainbow 6 Siege has a map based off the Waco Siege the map is called "Oregan" and before its balancing rework it was nearly a 1-1 copy of the Waco Compound. Right now it keeps some similarity like the Towers, Military-like Bedrooms and some others

[@whoahdude9742]

Wendigoon desperately trying not to laugh and just wheezing throughout Jackson’s intro was the perfect start to this episode

[@prometheusjones6580]

Sorry to hear that the ATF were forced to torch the studios of the Red Thread.

[@rebyj]

When this happened I was in my late 20s. It was the height of LIVE tv where every channel was trying to bring live drama. Live news was a different aggressive thing than it is now. Journalists and news channels like that do not exist anymore.We'd been watching it live on tv for DAYS. I was in a mall at Radio Shack watching the ending start with about 30 other people who stopped in their tracks to watch. By the time I left the mall there was barely a car on the road, everyone had heard it on the radio and went to watch tv somewhere. I can't wait to listen to this in it's entirety and may edit this to add more comments.

[@furrymessiah]

And then just a year later, we got the OJ Simpson trial... and the year after that, the Oklahoma City bombing... The 90's were pretty fucked up.

[@jlo7770]

​@@furrymessiahI remember columbine was a huge live news thing. And princess di, like stuff that totally stopped all other news... and that Jean Benet Ramsey? Lol bill Clinton..That was huge too. I think its all the same just stuff it's the same today too stuff is important for a week then it's on to the next tragedy. Unless it was under the last pres time then it was 24/7 Trump, dude lives in people's heads rent free, insane amount of news coverage that went no where, 2? Years of Russian collusion that got swept under the rug when it was decided that was all fake, then off to the next "big breaking" thing. Weird that was breaking news and then gone.. lol kinda shows how the media works

[@Ihelpertricks]

​@furrymessiah the main thing is that the 90s was the most deadly time on the United States. The leading theory is the led theory but it's relatively unexplained

[@NPX22]

@@Ihelpertrickswhat’s the led theory ?? Can’t find it online

[@deeman22baby]

The atf probably heard an acorn fall and let rip

[@Nagene_User]

We’re never getting off the watchlist with this one!!!

[@andrewcastellano1496]

1:53:45 Americans have always loved to watch crazy stuff. The first battle of the civil war had civilians picnicking on the side of the battlefield

[@necrobunnyxoxo]

i will say as a freshman in college- you guys are 100% right about american textbooks today lol. when i was a senior in high school the AP classes would go up to COVID, but even then the past like 40 years were covered in only maybe a few pages and it was really only there so that the books could SAY they were updated. there are some classes at my university that teach specifically about controversial times in recent histories and they go into great detail, but thats really only if you go to a big ass college that has a lot of funding/support :/ outside of maybe learning about it in school the only way a lot of people get this kind of information about recent history is through doing their own research

[@nothanks9503]

I went to one of the top 3 most populous high schools in the US and we spent an entire year on basically the last 70 years so it’s not every school

[@mere7583]

Ooooh I’d really like to know how public schools cover the lockdowns and v

[@TapeEater03]

I just searched for red thread. No notifications. How crazy I found it 1 minute after it was posted

[@link4585]

I found it and even misspelled it

[@flowuah6523]

Bot

[@dominicbautista7664]

I actually did the same

[@TapeEater03]

@@flowuah6523 no I’m not??? Tf?

[@TheCamo4000]

No you didnt

[@DocMadfox]

Never watched Moonfall and now am really curious what the Moon's message was. So good job Jackson.

[@SnifferSock]

I did, but I can't remember 😅

[@sm0kahontas719]

*Hey earth, i've fallen, and i can't get up!*

[@KarazolaX]

The moon's message was: "Kapersky Antivirus is the best. China is the most helpful country on Earth."

[@WadeShoe]

Haven't seen it either, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't environmentalist

[@dylanharbeson7965]

There is a class in my high school called Conspiracies and critical thanking. It is an elective that they teach.

[@xbrossiveaggro8346]

So, I graduated about 3 years ago from High School. History went up til about the beginning of the war on Terrorism, and kind of stopped there. I think it briefly mentioned 9/11, but just kind of hit the bullet points and that’s really all I remember. As for Waco? My Sociology and Psychology classes actually covered Waco, and also the Heaven’s Gate cult, Jonestown, and more similar instances. We actually watched some of the footage that was recorded when the American Senator visited. Jonestown. Even the part with the shooting. We probably would’ve watched some stuff for Waco’s siege, but Covid Lockdown had started very soon after we started to cover it. History class however did not touch it, at least in my school.

[@psycho42069]

Been waiting for you to drop a new episode so i can make a suggestion that might get seen. What ever happened to The Bermuda Triangle? I think that would be an awesome deep dive into the lore and mystery of!

[@KRDecade2009]

Basically the majority of the losses there can be attributed to; faulty equipment and poorly maintained vehicles

[@psycho42069]

@@KRDecade2009 True but there's plenty of strange stories like the squad of American planes that apparently got lost then popped back up hundreds of miles away but no time loss. I really don't know the details but i know there's a bunch of strange stories worth discussing at least, thus the suggestion. Idk.

[@scottphilippi2743]

"The best damn mechanic the FBI has ever seen." That was awesome!

[@katialowtas]

Excited that y'all are covering this. I'm from the Waco area and several of my family members knew these victims. Update: I'm watching this and I'm about 45 minutes in. I plan to watch Wendigoon's video on this. What's crazy is this is called Waco and everyone knows it as Waco, but it's not actually in Waco. It's in Axtell/Elk Texas.

[@coletrainhetrick]

What's youre opinion on the whole thing? I imagine it's anti unprovoked attack and Massacre, but I'm curious if that's okay.

[@katialowtas]

@coletrainhetrick It's a very sad situation. There's not a lot that will ever truly be known by the public except by those who actually were there. I think David was a sick man, but the ATF should have handled this differently.

[@katialowtas]

I think several of them were sick or brainwashed, but the ATF should have approached this initially differently. They should have arrested him away from them when he was out and about and then tried to get the Davidians out once he couldn't influence them anymore. Once the ATF raid was tipped off to the Davidians, ATF should have backed off and reassessed. But in no way does any of this excuse the bad things going on in the compound. The reporter also should have never known what was going on and never should have been able to tip off the Davidians.​ @coletrainhetrick

[@coletrainhetrick]

@@katialowtas thank you for the insight!

[@Bloodybayon3t]

Was the ol Elk dance hall a place when this all went down? Wonder if he ever sang there if so haha

[@elaine8651]

On a serious note this was a good episode bc no one has explained waco to me in a way that wasn't straight up talking down to me before, so I appreciate wendi pausing to go "wait, this is why that thibg we just read is a red flag," or "let me break down what this agency is," etc.

[@mochii_mokke]

my 8th grade history teacher taught us about waco and ruby ridge but he was known to go way off book with his lessons. it's safe to say that was one of the best history classes i ever had he made it so fun.

[@KRDecade2009]

In reference to the first 10 minutes, I only graduated in 2019 and they didn’t teach about the several banana republics and how the US was responsible for that. And they didn’t teach about the 89 invasion of Panama. Oh but they talked about the fall of the Soviet Union but dead silent on Ruby ridge and Waco. Edit: The ONLY time I had a teacher talk about the events listed was because US history/World History was their passion. In total that was one teacher, I had my algebra teacher tell us about these events because he was there for some of these events (the 89 invasion of Panama and Bosnia in the 90s). My marine biology teacher was in the navy he was in Iraq and he’d sometimes talk to us about it when class was slow. And to quote that teacher “There’s so many events and wars that they don’t teach about because it directly goes against the established narrative. Bringing up Waco, Ruby Ridge, Panama, Bosnia, or even Sherman’s war against the natives will make you realize that the government has done and will continue to do horrific and evil stuff. The only difference between us and the crimes of the Soviet Union is time and how effective the government is at hiding it.”

[@nothanks9503]

Half that stuff I learned in US history but yeah some of it was like 2 pages in a textbook sure but we covered it and the other half I learned in military school so they do teach kids who plan to be soldiers about that at least which is arguably more important we spent weeks on each of those topics

[@Blewlongmun]

@@nothanks9503 They teach the people who self select as already committed to their country for one reason or another, if you're signing up to the military chances are you're not going to completely 180 your world view because they told you the truth. It sounds nice but it's a lot of fake incompetence that compounds to serve the government, the fact you signed up means you're likely to believe the narrative they've specifically crafted to sound truthful. If you were going to fact check it on your own you wouldn't of signed up in the first place.

[@K.Frizzy]

This is a perfect situation to illustrate that just because you criticize one side doesn't mean you are praising the other side. Real life is not always good guys vs. bad guys. That's comic book shit.

[@kadenkohl782]

The waco siege is the US government committing an atrocity against innocent civilians.

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

honest opinion please? are you under the impression that because koresh did not release any of his children that all of them are dead? were they all there still by that time? had any of them left prior to the raid/siege? could it be possible their story and insights are incomplete?

[@bentwineham1986]

​@@l_shaun_bunds_lcitation needed

[@lordadorable7362]

Jesus h Christ, quit commenting this fucking everywhere you bot

[@dimsufferer9951]

Sometimes it’s a race to the finish line of who’s the worst person in a situation

[@noahjones8457]

In recent history class, the most recent thing we've been taught was Watergate but that was a week long lesson in a journalism class. In normal history class the most recent thing you learn is some of the events at the end of WW2

[@thegoblinking7714]

Damn, where do you go to school? We covered everything up to Vietnam in detail and then 1 unit on everything up to 9/11 and a half unit on everything up to Obamas second term

[@MarioMario-uy2my]

It was usually just retreading the holocaust for me

[@jetzer4817]

Im pretty sure for me it either covered up to 9/11 or to Obama becoming president

[@Rosalia.Mine.]

My history teacher in middle school covered this briefly in a class, basically saying one group was doing bad things and the ATF did worse things. But teachers aren't allowed to share their political or religious beliefs in school (at least for my district). He did however say before moving on, "the ATF did shoot first though" I think the biggest reason this isn't covered in schools is because lots of it is covered in conspiracy and teachers are usually only allowed to teach facts and not opinion. I never knew anything about how MLK or even JFK was assassinated until a few weeks ago, and I graduated about four years ago. All I knew was that they were assassinated one day and that was the end to their missions. My history teacher was very excellent and amazing at giving us the facts but had to dance around giving us his own opinion and had to let us make our own conclusions. But knowing the basic details of major deaths in history was deemed as "too horrific" for 13-14 year olds by the school district.

[@edwardosquidawardo]

My high school history teacher taught us about Ronald Regan holding on hostage negotiations, until after he was in office. He covered a lot of things going on in Middle East in 80s, and we did end the semester with 911. We also started at early civilizations too. He was a tremendous teacher, and a wonderful man.

[@jasesmith2457]

Working on a Saturday is suck, but new episode of red thread to get me through it is absolutely not suck 😈

[@K.Frizzy]

Hope the work day flies by for you, buddy.

[@RileyE.]

You’re the hero we need sir, keep up the hussle boss :)

[@angelichaven]

​@@RileyE.Not wanting to be that guy but its hustle

[@angelichaven]

​@@RileyE.Not wanting to be that guy but its hustle

[@HovektheArtist]

I was born april 11 1993 in waco texas, my senior thesis was on the waco siege/aka the branch davidian attack When people heard where i was from theyd say " oh youre one of those waco wackos"

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

it was? huh.... honest opinion please? are you under the impression that because koresh did not release any of his children that all of them are dead? were they all there still by that time? had any of them left prior to the raid/siege? could it be possible their story and insights are incomplete?

[@KennyHedgehog]

I'm glad they're covering this

[@Willowmoon20]

I graduated HS in 2019 in Texas (in a town about an hour and a half away from Waco) and I actually remember talking about the Waco Siege (and the raid Raid on the YFZ Ranch) in my history classes, but my 10th, 11th, and 12th grade history teachers were all pretty great and they all taught additional course materials outside of the required curriculum.

[@jackquill8001]

Hey guys, I know that this would be a bit different than what you usually cover, but I think a pretty good video idea would be the Titan submersible implosion. I just wrote a paper on it, it is a super interesting case with a lot of corporate wrongdoing. maybe a shorter video, but I would love to hear y'alls thoughts on it.

[@jaethegae8691]

Current junior in high school who took both APUSH and AP World here.. Waco was never brought up and most modern history is taught very generalized. And you’re very VERY right that there is heavy emphasis on 9/11 which is understandable but very little focus on the political and military aftermath of 9/11 globally. I’m sure it also varies based on where you are in the US

[@stengren9104]

Brilliant timing releasing this seconds after I finished the Zodiac killers episode, you're a good man Jackson cheers

[@MrMeattball]

Whenever I find myself missing the good days of 2015-2019 I just have to remind myself that Red Thread and CreepCast didn’t exist back then.

[@LizzBates237]

I went to high school in Waco in the 00s and we still didn't learn about the Waco siege in history 😂 I had no idea why everyone kept asking about it when I'd say I lived in Waco. It wasn't until it was finally explained to me as "David Koresh and his cult. The compound is still there!" And didn't find out the actual story until KZbin blew up. So even out in Waco it's not super common knowledge what happened for millennials and under. Maybe others just had a better history teacher than me. 🙃

[@SultanFriendlyGuest]

Jackson: Doing all the research for all episodes Isaiah: Actually listening and analysing the case Charlie:

[@Experiment-1006]

Very well done all of you. Topics such as these should always be treated the way you guys handle them.

[@xtravis_wx5575]

Jackson’s intro for this topic was so good. Started as a mechanic to building tanks for the FBI

[@Justin-ShalaJC]

Defund the ATF!

[@ollortmccoy5215]

The ATF Is the most evil monster Red Thread will ever cover

[@sharon_perezz]

I love the video guys! Also I was born and raised in Clearwater and I would love for y’all to do a video on Scientology since it also hits home for Charlie too 🙏🏽 these people have bought the police and overtaken the city and the amount of predatory practices they do needs to be exposed. Not to mention that it’s made the local commerce near impossible as they own 50 percent of downtown

[@cgoldborn]

Wendigoon’s video has the clips of the Branch Davidians talking to the negotiator and gosh - it’s heartbreaking. Both sides are wrong, but the way Koresh and the other Davidians speak is with such passion and plead that it’s hard to root for the government in this one Not saying Koresh is a good guy AT ALL but i do feel like he did somewhat believe in what he was doing, and his voice speaks that

[@johnroyal4054]

Hard to root for the government? Yeah a bit, they came in and murdered people while refusing David's attempts to talk to them multiple times. After words destroying evidence and making false claims to justify their demonic actions

[@八雲藍-y2j]

Koresh needed help, he was evil yes but it was obvious he suffered from a mental illness. I can't take people seriously when they say the atf were the good guys

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

@@八雲藍-y2j honest opinion please? are you under the impression that because koresh did not release any of his children that all of them are dead? were they all there still by that time? had any of them left prior to the raid/siege? could it be possible their story and insights are incomplete?

[@braken63]

Passion?Are you fucking kidding?Passion should not influence how you think of a bunch of maniacs. Both were wrong,that's all.

[@cehodson]

Let’s gooooooo so hyped for this one can’t wait need ruby ridge next

[@TheKanati09]

There is a book called "Stalling for Time" written by Gary Noesner. He was an FBI negotiator at both Ruby Ridge and Waco. Really puts the command structure into perspective and their priorities

[@waverlyalexa1548]

I know him! And my copy of his book is signed by him. He’s a good guy that was in a bad situation

[@HeroKiro]

Went through APUSH last year. We went to very recent history, but WACO wasnt even touched in the slightest. Not even sort of brought up.

[@Redsniperxrays]

The introduction of every episode is the best 🤣 Them laughing through it kills me!! 🤣

[@muddy2764]

This has become my favorite podcast and I’m so glad y’all are covering this

[@ItsDesca]

As a person who is just now exiting Highschool, this pretty much still rings true, Vietnam is the last thing we go over. We briefly touched on 9/11 by watching one documentary, but other than that, nothing. Waco was actually briefly mentioned in our government class, but only as a one off comment from the teacher and not related to any lesson plans. American Highschool has not really progressed at all.

[@Mikeygamer1]

yeah its really up to teachers to give students more info about stuff like that but some teachers are also boot lickers so they might not cover it at all. and some are so anti government they will straight up lie or use very loose conspiracies. quite a tricky thing to learn about stuff like this since its so polarized, you need to take a personal step back and try and figure it out

[@johnbradley7294]

@@Mikeygamer1 I was going to say partly its because people cannot agree on the "american mythos" anymore so it leads to people just not talking about it.

[@goosegirl941]

How can you not cover 9/11? 😮 it was kind of a big deal. Unless the documentary you watched was Loose Change, in that case carry on.

[@TealWolf26]

Oh man, what if they covered 'Nam? They might be too big of a conversation for even the Red Thread. Not so much the military actions as the social and political conversation. Drafts, protests, etc. The Hippy movement.

[@collinb.8542]

​@@TealWolf26if the Red Thread covered Nam it would be INSANE.

[@clouds9688]

Jeez, Charlie talkin our ears off like usual 😂

[@BeeseChoard]

Regarding whether the Branch Dividians at Waco was taught in schools, I grew up in Dallas and I was SHOCKED when my mom explained the events to me when I was in high school. It definitely isn’t basic knowledge, even when you live an hour from where it happened. My mom would get equally as mad as Isaiah about the events and couldn’t believe that they skipped over that entirely in school. We learned about JFK, naturally, since it’s inescapable in Dallas (I even worked in a building on Dealey Plaza) but that’s about the most recent history we were taught.

[@DrewbaccaStarWars]

CIA got JFK

[@blaize2638]

Charlie said a lot this episode

[@mazz5413]

Jackson's intro was such a roller coaster. Best one yet!!

[@gamerfans1476]

I feel like teaching these history lessons is an important step to skip repetition, teach kids to be better than the past, not worse for the future

[@Dogballs6969]

I have a friend who says the only way to have true pride in your country is to recognize its failures and mistakes, and celebrate when it attempts to become better. Unfortunately with a story like this where they twist the narrative they the ATF was in the right and actively celebrate the “victory” we can never become better:(

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

yeah, it is not working . the kids here just call me a schizo for trying to make them aware of how many things they choose to speculate about and then they assume I am nuts. It teaches kids you have to be an internet celebrity to have a voice.

[@l_shaun_bunds_l]

@@Dogballs6969 It is a bitch when you are so focused on the big picture you skip over the details and undermine your own perspective.

[@aeugchad]

​@l_shaun_bunds_l Brother you are a schizo, you've commented on like 50 other comments arguing with absolutely no one but acting like everyone is actively targeting you.

[@wolfiemuse]

Another incredible episode in the bag, boys. One of the best podcasts on this platform. The perfect amount of “serious topic” plus “let’s fuck around and be silly”. I love it. ❤

[@BibbyLou99]

32:00 sometimes in cults when the big date doesn’t happen they say it’s because the followers weren’t good enough/ praying enough/ didn’t try hard enough / etc

[@giaxxone]

Well, I think the blame should be placed equally among all three of you for how much I love this. Red Thread one of the best things that has ever happened on the internet.

[@CourseConsumption]

25:50 “is he coming back with a vengeance?” 😂😂