The War Priest Cleric: PF2e Build #5

[@DnDDeepDive]

Errata: I confused the Stabilize cantrip with an optional rule on Stabilizing out of the GMG page 200: 2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1381 - the cantrip itself doesn't inherently heal after a round :).

[@minikawildflower]

Stabilize is still awesome! My Champion with free archetype divine sorcerer has Stabilize as a way to keep allies alive till we can get out of combat and do some Lay on Hands healing.

[@DarthFetid]

what is a arah? is it like an Aura (orah)?

[@BloodiedShingle]

Fun tidbit for the day: Charisma being used to determine Divine Font has a long and wonky history, going back to when Turn Undead was a Charisma-based cleric ability in the D&D 3rd Edition days (further back than that requires more Lore training than I possess). In Pathfinder 1st Edition this became Channel Energy, which was still Charisma-based, and functioned more or less like what a 3-action Heal spell in PF2 does today. So, when Channel Energy became Divine Font (and Heal became the variable spell it now is), it kept that quirk of its old origin- one little way to keep its tie to Charisma. I'm sure there are design/balance reasons for it too, but that's part of why Charisma is the ability score in use. I just find the callback fun, that's all. Great video, as always- I've really been enjoying these!

[@johngleeman8347]

Paladins also cast using their Wisdom scores in 3rd edition. A major reason Pathfinder 1st and D&D 5e paladins are so much stronger than 3rd edition.

[@kateslate3228]

This was part of a centralized change in 3rd edition to make Charisma more useful in general, it's use in AD&D being mostly the amount of hirelings you can have at any given point.

[@charmandenator5686]

One thing to remember about the War Priest is that those buffs you're casting will also push allies above your own damage, which would leave you behind. Parties with good teamwork really change the assumptions of the system.

[@TexasSnyper]

See, I don't view allies' extra dmg from my buffs as their damage. That's my damage that I channel through them. Of course they can still believe it's their own too.

[@thewordywarlock7159]

Can't wait for Colby's first pf2e two-character build.

[@Dr_Robin_Zoro]

@@thewordywarlock7159 using Sniper duo dedication.

[@Tsurunen]

@@thewordywarlock7159 So a Summoner?

[@heathenselfhealer4339]

I think the FFXIV community does a good job with recognizing what they call "rdps" or raid DPS. The damage caused by your boosts is attributable to you. It's part of your kit and what you provide. The damage person only gets to be that cool if you say so. And really, if they wanted cool buffs, they could have rolled warpriest ;)

[@MrCapitalOrange]

52:50 your reflex saves would be better than it may seem, since plate has the bulwark trait, giving you a +3 to reflex saves in place of dexterity

[@raymondlinton4703]

But only against damaging effects

[@nerrex11]

Starting Abomination Vaults next week and was thinking of a War Priest to fill out our party. Definitely going with this build, thanks Colby!

[@njsoapdish]

I would suggest taking assurance for medicine rather than ward medic to auto succeed on all of your medicine checks.

[@nerrex11]

@@njsoapdish will go for that then, is there a reason I shouldn’t prioritize charisma over wisdom if I end up going more healing and not so much offensive spells?

[@Chadius]

@@nerrex11 Healing spells will help you in combat when you need HP NOW. But the Medicine skill provides much more downtime heals in between combat. As a Warpriest your spell proficiency will lag behind other casters, so you are expected to BONK with your weapon and use spells to supplement damage or buff your allies. Harm spell -> Weapon Strike -> Raise Shield is a great combo once you have enough spell slots to spam Harm.

[@njsoapdish]

@@nerrex11 i would still focus on wisdom, then strengthen. Charisma would be teriary for a war priest. It might be good to see if a race can give you all 3? But I'm not sure one does. Charisma gives you free heals, which is awesome, but making your spells and attacks more effective comes first.

[@AdellRedwinters]

the mentality that "choices don't matter" is so bizarre but I think the people who say that are generally approaching it from the 5e mindset where damage is basically the only major thing your choices can influence drastically. PF2e's design choice of making the baseline damage across builds being much closer to each other really does mean the weirder choices you make are much more influential on your playstyle. It means building towards how you deliver that damage is more impactful, and it means leaning into other archetypes like tanks or skill monkeys is also more viable without completely killing your ability to be functional in combat. And yes, I do think that ultimately leads to better feeling characters in pf2e than 5e. No hate on 5e though, I play both games and have had my fun in both, and pf2e certainly has its faults, but having choices really isn't one of them. The tight math I can see losing some people who like "pulling ahead of the numbers" but that sort of gameplay always causes friction in ttrpgs, I find, between the player and the creatures the dm is using. It usually ends up just becoming an arms race of "how do I challenge the player" which also punishes the other players who didn't do everything they could to push ahead of the curve, this was a huuuuge issue in 3rd edition and pathfinder 1e imo, and I'm glad PF2e has attempted to mitigate it even if that means you can't always make some super cracked build anymore.

[@Badbentham]

Indeed: PF2E is the hands-down "best" system when it comes to enabling build choices; especially with Archetype variant. It still clearly rewards optimization; but it does not shoe-horn players into "must-picks" and abandoning most RP flavor, to achieve unbeatable OP status , independent of campaign setting and table, like PF1E and 5E strongly tend to do: - " The best" 2E builds can certainly carry a party, by being quite a nuance more powerful, but they can never completely overshadow the rest. And, table and DM have a far easier time, due to clearly laid-out rules, to enable RP builds ( that e.g. quite a few of the Advanced Archetypes lean into ) in a meaningful way.

[@Venjax420]

Now you know what needs to be next? PF2 "Tank"...😊

[@patron7906]

They don't exist in PF2. You have Monks and Champions who die easily. Other martials who die very easily and then everyone else who dies stupidly easily. Triple ply tissue paper, vs double ply and then single ply. It's all tissue paper.

[@50layersofshrek83]

​@@patron7906 I think monks can be pretty chunky but I'm not sure they can "tank" for the team as in make yourself a better target for the enemies than your friends are.

[@playerkit]

Tanks in pf2e are definitely possible. Building around grappling will encourage grabbed enemies to attack you or waste actions attempting to escape. Very fun builds. Inventor in particular is very neat as a strength-based tank.

[@AdellRedwinters]

I had a tanky shield wielding champion player with a potential 30 AC and 6 damage reduction resistance at level 8-9, and he was pretty hard to put down. Gave a very captain america sort of vibe too it was a pretty sick build.

[@ghostyuki-kfpinquisitor1038]

When it comes to tanking, you're looking to not get crit, not to not get hit. You should be able to take multiple hits at least. You can get some pretty ridiculously tanky characters, just not immortal ones.

[@ronincallahan2384]

If you want to lean into Heavy Armor, the Sentinel dedication would give you scaling proficiency plus some extra goodness, including armor specialization. Or you could stick with Medium armor, but be able to sleep in it for no penalty, making surprise attacks during rests less deadly.

[@chingodingo]

As always, thank you so much for these builds. They are really helping me learn PF2E from the character's perspective. I'm getting to the point where I actually know various feats and character choices. Keep up the great work!

[@dianalawnder5282]

I'm really glad you're doing more P2E videos, I've always loved your channel and really missed it when i lost interest in 5e. I cant wait until you learn enough to get deep into the system and how much cool stuff it offers like sniper gunslingers or demon summoners.

[@neurolancer81]

I agree with Ronald, while you are not expected to be at full health, you are expected to be up there or the encounter math does not work. Love the video, one of my favourite classes!

[@kwagmeijer26]

small correction. the shield spell lets you use the shield block reaction with it, even if you don't have the shield block feat.

[@yellingintothewind]

Yup. In this case, having both the shield cantrip and a shield is a good idea, assuming weight isnt' a major issue, since it lets you use the shield cantrip most of the time, but give you the option to switch the bastard sword to one handed after you expend the shield cantrip to shield block. Does mean an extra action when making the switch, since you have to get the shield off your back to use it, but in a long and tough fight, being able to switch to a steel shield and then using the feat-granted reaction to keep shield blocking can matter a ton for a frontline caster.

[@madninja1993]

fun fact about the Champion's Code in Pathfinder: it specifically does not encourage Lawful Stupid play, if an enemy is demonstrably beyond your capabilities you are not required to die fighting them in order to "never let evil go unapposed" it also prioritizes certain parts of the code over others so for instance if a lawfully appointed King is abusing his subjects you as a Paladin are not obligated to respect his rule despite being a Lawful authority, if you as a Paladin were to find a group of refugees hiding from that King you could also lie your ass off consequence free to protect them because the Tenets of Good that state you must protect the innocent outweigh the Paladin stricture against lying

[@feylin]

I love that you gave them some love. War priests are tricky. Thanks A few people are talking about tanks here. Crit mitigation is the big issue. They are going to take damage. They are taking hits. Everyone gets hit but tanks don't get crit. Keep the 10 point rule in mind for this.

[@feylin]

You picked one of my favorite gods of the game! His lore is amazing pf1e has a book called chronicles of the righteous. I believe he is mentioned knights of lastwall. He is so pretty. His dad still has his wing. Did you know you can be a cg champion and worship an evil god? Look at Arazni. I'm hella biased on this build. I got a similar character going. Electric arc is one of the best cantrips in the game. Finally medicine checks. Secrets of magic really helped the spell selection. Divine is the smallest list and got another precious damage cantrip there. But for a core cleric you did great I love it. Orc bias. Medicine needs the apg Ronald is right about the hp convo. The multigod issue is handled in the gods n magic under pantheons. It might change your mind. But damerich is a great one to pair with him. Not splitting the god is best for most characters. I'm so hyped you are enjoying the pantheon in general.

[@feylin]

Poison and disease are situational I'm in a campaign where we fight them every other fight but in another one it has come up once in six months.

[@ye-roon]

I've breaking my head around a similar build, but not with the bastard sword but the katana. Which goes from 1d6 to 1d10. But not going for champion. Going fighter instead, then going the dueling route with Dueling Parry and Dual Handed Assault. That last one costs 1 action, it makes you switch grip, hit the target with 2 hands and then go back to 1 hand. It doesnt stop dueling parry or dueling dance. Meaning you can have the 2AC benifit from dueling parry still. Plus it leads to Dueling Riposte and Selfless Parry fitting into the cleric protecting and dealing damage. Plus Shizuru is an amazing deity, one of the edicts is: practice with your sword every day.

[@brutalchicken]

I'm playing a Warpriest of Shizuru, which I hastily repackaged from a Ragathiel build by switching the bastard sword out for a katana, I ended up really loving Channel Smite for this combo at 6th: True Strike > Divine Weapon > Channel Smite (Harm/Heal). That gives you the good ol' 5e Advantage of rolling twice, then with Divine Weapon you get a d4 or d6, on top of the Harm/Heal damage. If your team was setting each other up with flanking and bonuses and maluses on the enemy, you could pump out serious damage at 6th level. With a Disrupting rune on your katana for another d6, it adds up fast against the undead. If you're only fighting the undead... it's lower against others, but not by much. I crit for 92 in at 6-7th level. Granted, it took 2 spells but that's a respectable amount at any level.

[@jmooreftw]

There are some sorcerer bloodlines that let you get into melee. I had a draconic sorcerer that made use of his draconic claws (using a focus spell) as his main attack. After that it was a matter of getting things like the shield spell and touch spell attacks (like shocking grasp of course). He was fun

[@toodleselnoodos6738]

Could you share the build? The PF2e subreddit tends to savagely downvote or attack fun/viable builds if they’re not a cookie cutter min-maxed munchkin.

[@blazegraves]

For the first few levels, the dragon sorcerer in my party was outdamaging me as a rogue. And he specc'd for melee combat.

[@jmooreftw]

@@toodleselnoodos6738 Well I don't really have a build for it, This was a society character that I used before even APG was out. It was a goblin silver draconic sorcerer. Now that kobolds are thing for flavor I would probably go with that instead. Grab any spells that would be useful for close range like color spray, mirror image that sort of thing. I didn't get very high level before I stopped playing society because I got busy with life for a bit. I was about to take a monk archetype because it would increase the dmg die but these days Dragon disciple would be better. I'm sure you could figure something pretty decent out especially if you have the free archetype. Society doesn't have that. One tip though is to get the familiar for the extra focus point incase you need it.

[@strategicviewpoint6672]

I have a 13th level rogue with draconic claws (black dragon) and the opportune backstab / gang up feats. Stupid amounts of damage.

[@strategicviewpoint6672]

I should add- that taking the Sorceror Archetype (draconic) dedication gives you the true strike and haste spells which are nice buffs

[@Chadius]

Pathfinder 1e Clerics had medium armor and great spell casting. They were one of the strongest classes in the game (inheriting the CoDzilla meme aka "Clerics and Druids ruled the earth" from D&D 3.5.) During the 2e playtest, the Clerics were ONLY cloistered clerics. They lost the armor, had worse weapon proficiency and kept their strong magic casting. Feedback showed some players wanted to play with weapons and magic, and so the Warpriest doctrine was born. When people want to play "Smite" style Paladins in PF2, I usually point them at Warpriest. You still rely on spells to buff yourself and your allies, but you get armor, a shield, and your weapon proficiencies aren't terrible. You get to fight and to heal, but not as well as an armored Champion or spell focused Cloistered Cleric.

[@JediMage]

Honestly anything pathfinder is really interesting. Even barbarians feel more different. I just love seeing you explore it all ) Would like to see some weirder classes from you, like taumaturge and investigator btw )

[@donalddouds6033]

Prying Eye Colby says “cheating” I say “well prepared” we are not the same. Wait, yes we are that’s why I’m here. Carry on ;) In addition the amount of choices for clerics and how their very specific choice of both deity and domain effect that cleric is absolutely mind boggling. From diplomatic “face” type negotiating and a cloistered cleric’s different doctrine as compared to this example of war priest doctrine the sky is the limit and makes one of my favorite classes to play

[@Lerker2000]

Hey Colby! One thing I recently learned about "sustained" spells that was not obvious to me is that if you don't spend an action to sustain it every turn then it ends at the end of your turn. So for "Bless" for example, you *need* to spend 1 of your 3 actions every turn if you want it to last the full minute, and each time you sustain it it gets bigger. EDIT: Bless is not sustained, I was mistaken

[@canhaoambulante9329]

bless is not sustained. You just have the option to use extra actions to expand the area

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@canhaoambulante9329 this :)

[@Lerker2000]

@@DnDDeepDive Ahh, I misremember that one as being sustained. My mistake!

[@mazzhunts]

I'm loving the Pathfinder content, so glad I found this channel. One thing to note is that expert medicine allows for the DC 20 with a +10 heal, master proficiency lets you try for DC 30 with a ridiculous +30 to heal.

[@aaronsmith3375]

I've found that the Warpriest, particularly in a non-Free Archetype game like you'd find in Organized Play, can tank a fair amount of damage, despite being limited to Medium Armor because they have very little to do with their reaction at lower levels so they may as well shield block. One thing I'd like to see is a look at the use of a shield and how it increases your tankiness, both with the AC increase versus on level enemies, and how many blocks a shield can tank versus average damage, with an upgrade to a on level "Sturdy Shield" starting at Level 4, and getting upgraded as stronger versions of the Sturdy Shield become available. For a 5th Level Warpriest with Emblazon Armament on their Shield, they can tank an extra 18-27 damage in a combat before their shield breaks assuming two-to-three hits, and that's discounting the occasional minimum damage hit that doesn't penetrate hardness Also "True Strike + a maximum level channeled smite" math for burst damage would be amazing. The nice thing being that you can use lower level spell slots that you don't need as much to get modest increases as you see fit and save the True Strike for a Maximum Level Heal-Harm that you really want to go through. Its my biggest gripe with the Warpriest is that True Strike should be a part of the Doctrine's basic kit and not locked behind a domain. There isn't a single Dwarven Deity that has True Strike available, and that's a crime. Lastly 4th Level Spell - Vital Beacon. Becoming a Healing Totem Pole with 4 charges where you can either give for an action or your teammates can take by patting you on the ass as they run by is amazing.

[@JediMage]

Btw btw, there is a variant rule which was implemented not so long ago, which allows you to take 2 bumps to abilities with any race instead (just if you ever feel the need to try something except human)

[@commanderbernhardt5317]

It's not actually a variant, it's a baseline rule now since the errata. While I realise this probably looks like nitpicking (and I'm sorry if so, that wasn't my intention!), there are some GMs who just don't use variants so the distinction is important for that sort of table.

[@Chadius]

It's now a standard rule. You can choose EITHER the ancestry's ability layout OR 2 bumps to any stat, like a Human could.

[@lagautmd]

A few years back I was playing a warpriest who did the 3 action spell in a fight with some undead who'd gotten the upper hand on our level 1 party. It turned the tide of the battle right away. They all dropped points, we all increased points, so it was like doubling the effect.

[@DnDDeepDive]

Awesome!

[@senorelroboto2]

Ooh, nice. I've always wanted a 5e Cleric that would get Extra Attack at Level 6. I even made a home brew Judgment Domain for my table.

[@rileymcleran2895]

My group encounters disease or poison every other session or so. We almost lost our swashbuckler to a disease once, and have had many encounters swing badly due to poisons.

[@wacpas]

Be me: See title *excited for a war cleric multiclass that will beat the bladesinger* Be me: See "PF2e" in title *disapointment to not get a new idea for a DnD character, while at the same time be very excited to play some PF2 soon :D*

[@PyroMancer2k]

Retributive Strike has some important wording I think you may have over looked. "The ally gains resistance to all damage" it doesn't reduce the total damage by specific amount. This is important because of how resistances work in PF2e. If the enemy does multiple damage types like say a flaming weapon that does slashing and fire damage then it reduces the damage of both types by 2+Level. Some of the higher level enemies have multiple damage types which makes this ability even better at helping to protect your allies.

[@malkyn9998]

Oh, another thing: you can draw and then store a divine focus as part of the casting of a spell, so pre-drawing the focus prior to the 3 action heal is not a concern so long as you have a free hand. Emblazon Armament could still be a good pick because it removes the free hand requirement, but you'll want the free hand for Battle Medicine either way. It's good, but for this build I'd actually recommend a different level 2 class feat.

[@SamFinklestein]

The free hand part has some issues, though, since Colby loves to two-hand the bastard sword: putting an extra hand on the sword if you weren't already holding it in two hands requires an Interact action (letting go with one hand is fortunately free). Thus, Emblazon Armament becomes important for casting spells and making two-handed attacks without needing to adjust your grip every time you change between the two.

[@malkyn9998]

@@SamFinklestein He could get around it by not picking spells with material/focus components, but you're right that not having it would close off some spells, including three-action heal, which I missed at time of comment. The big thing to bear in mind that's different from 5e is that somatic components don't require a free hand, your fingers don't fuse to a weapon you pick up, so you can still wiggle them while gripping with the other fingies. In all, yeah, Emblazon plus giving up on using Battle Medicine (barring emergencies) in combat would be the way to go. As it stands, he'd find himself one-handing it a lot, which would defeat the point of Emblazon.

[@Kanyusi1234]

Something not many people talk about is that you can save some time (if it's an issue in the adventure) by refocusing while doing something related to the way you refocus. So perhaps you could Refocus while using Treat Wounds by saying prayers during treatment (CRB p300). I'd say Sorcerers have it easy in that regard since their refocus activity is non-specific, but that's for the GM to decide.

[@relaxedfantasyreview]

More Pathfinder! Heck yes! Good to see you again Colby 😁

[@combsmsb]

Honestly, wild order druid seems really solid for a gish. They have battle forms to get in melee, as well as gouging claw, 8hp, decent healing ability and great spell list for both damage and control. Pair it with an ancestry that thiccc like orc or unbreakable goblin. You can very easily gish

[@kwagmeijer26]

they feel more like choosing battle form or magic depending on the situation, whereas warpriest uses melee and spell together. Not sure if that counts as gish, but certainly versatile.

[@robertcalin7971]

Love your content and especially your pathfinder builds Colby, keep them coming! Some things to add about this build: you mentioning the possibility to take a dex boost at lvl 10 for better ac and reflex saves, but don't forget that plate armor does also have the amazing bulwark trait, letting you add a +3 to your reflex saves against damaging effects instead of your dex modifier. Oh and also about that small "rant" on the restoration spells, maybe you don't have a lot of experience with pf2e, but the system heavily rewards planning ahead, roleplaying and learning things, especially about the foes you might be facing, so these niche spells and abilities usually feel great to have and use.

[@aventuraenlafogata649]

Although you can definitely dump Wisdom as a warpriest, which is one of their better benefits; this build seems to be better suited to have 18 Wisdom and keep it as high as possible. You are relying on saves a lot, which are all Wisdom based. I know that the dedication was a strong reason to go higher charisma, tho. So core rulebook only, i understand the decision. With advanced players guide, Mauler can be a great choice. PD: If you want a ridiculous sustained damage dealer, you need to go to Barbarian and Fighter. Those are the beasts of damage, although they don't do much else.

[@tyrusdalet]

A player in my games is a Thaumaturge with Barbarian Archetype with the Superstition instinct! Incredibly fun, given that their adept implement is the Amulet, and their second implement is the Regalia. Their sustained damage is nutty against the Exploited target. And they’re using Talisman Esoterica to make up for the fact that they refuses spells cast on themself

[@wverms]

I think you make a great point at the end. I was feeling pretty discouraged about how similar the numbers end up at the end of all of these builds, but- Having the damage ceilings (roughly) similar between the classes is actually really dang nice. You seemingly aren't hindered by class choice when it comes to playstyle here as much as you would be in 5e (which I still like a lot).

[@austin80112]

An often forgotten rule about recovering focus points is that you can do any 10 minute activity to refocus, as long as it thematically makes sense. One of the options specifically called out by the book is that if you worship a god or goddess of healing you could treat wounds and recover your focus points. Anyhow, all my paladin characters worship a deity with healing in their portfolio ever since so I can fix wounds with tape, take a breather to slap them with holy healing, then go back to the bandages to get back to full focus points without wasting extra time between combats.

[@AdellRedwinters]

If someone keeps taking the medicine related feats, healing between battles takes less in-unverise time (you can heal multiple people per Treat Wounds and you're healing for more per use by doing the harder DCs) and that combined with healing items being relatively on the cheaper side means that *generally* speaking you can be at full health between every encounter. That isn't always the case, and I think it's one of those things that sort of is gonna depend on the current adventure and whether you are "safe" to do it, but my experience with it is that Treat Wounds and various resource healing options are plentiful enough that you will go from encounter to encounter with most of your HP intact, it *should* be abnormal to go multiple battles without at least healing most of the damage of the previous fight.

[@nathanstruble2177]

Yay for PF2E content!! 😁

[@shawngraham2191]

Not every PF2e group I've been in has had access to "infinite" out of combat healing, but most did. The one that didn't required me to be a little more lenient with the Speed of Plot, giving more opportunities to rest as they ended up spending more spell slots to heal up to full.

[@RLKmedic0315]

My favorite non-magus gish (so far) is a Fighter with Sorc dedication (Free AT rules). Human using a Rhoka sword 1-handed. The feat that allows a hit using 2 hands is great for the build. And I used the majority of my spell slots for either defense, (blur, mirror image, shield) or boosting my weapon attacks with things like echoing weapon, haste, sword burst and so on. He is a ton of fun and is surprisingly deadly in combat and more effective with skills than I expected. Having a high charisma and strength allowed him to feint, trip and shove in combat and still have good social skills. I'm really enjoying the array of characters you can make in PF 2E

[@malkyn9998]

Very small correction: healing isn't doubled on a Medicine crit success. Dice rolled go from 2d8 to 4d8, but any other modifiers remain what they are. The 2d8 to 4d8 being double is correct, but wanted to advise just so that tidbit doesn't create confusion at any tables. Still watching at time of comment, but otherwise liking the video.

[@xaropevic7918]

An even smaller correction: 2 x 2d8 (double the value) is the same as 4d8 in average value, but not equal in all aspects, such as variance, which is higher on 2 x 2d8. For example, magic missile in 5e changes from table to table between 3 x 1d4 and 3d4 despite raw being 3 x 1d4 due to it being not intuitive, and being so common to deal 4 damage (25% chance) which is annoying, instead of 1,5% chance in 3d4, which fits better magic missile flavor imo because 3d4 is a damage that is more guaranteed and consistent, which is what makes this spell unique Another thing is that 2d8x2 would be impossible to heal an odd amount, which is odd (pun intended)

[@KevinVideo]

Another fantastic Pathfinder build. What's great about these builds is you really do see how tight that math is. The proof truly is in the pudding.

[@nutmeggnog3966]

Gotta keeps these videos in tip top shape with algorithm comments. We appreciate what you do so much Colby! I feel like optimization has always been associated with harsh, crunchy players, and it's so wonderful to see optimized characters given so much love and wholesomeness :)

[@RETRODIBUS]

I love your pathfinder videos, I'm learning so much!

[@BISlover544]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but re: the bit about condition-curing spells being rather limited - since you always have access to the entire divine spell list (no wizard-style spellbook where you have to learn spells), it's perfectly reasonable to leave a slot empty in your daily preparations and prep a specific condition-curing spell into it on the fly (I think it takes an hour?) Doesn't work for combat of course, but generally the things for which cure spells have the most impact (diseases, doomed, drained curses, long-lasting poisons) are things which only really get nasty well after combat.

[@Chadius]

A staff or scroll helps a lot, too. As long as it's divine a cleric can use it, even if it's above the highest spell level you can cast.

[@strategicviewpoint6672]

There is also a 8th level feat called Channeled Succor that allows you to sacrifice a heal to cure most conditions

[@RichartI]

You can't actually leave a slot open during your daily preparations. You must fill all spell slots with spells each morning (during your daily preparations). Some class abilities let you swap one prepared spell for another (like the Spell Substitution from wizard).

[@pedroalvarezgarcia5776]

I think the extra heals with Charisma comes from 3e at least. Charisma also defined all the turn undead mechanics. So yeah, Clerics were Wisdom&Charisma for a while.

[@LightningRaven42]

The Warpriest is quite fine early on. Its major problem is after 13th level. Which is when the true martial classes become Master. After that, the Warpriest start to get REALLY behind. Which is why so many PF2e players take issue with it. Worse still is that the Cloistered Cleric will eventually hit the same proficiency levels, making the Warpriests feel like a meaningless choice at higher levels. To me, the Doctrine is alright at earlier levels, but I think if it was implemented differently, it would've made it a healthier choice. It should've sacrificed more spell casting in favor of more combat prowess. It also needed the option of its first general feat being Shield Block or another choice for 2h warpriests (maybe Toughness or Fleet), because it is a dead feat otherwise, in a class that's already starving for features. It also needs more Martial Feats in order to feel like a martial class (even if they only appeared at higher levels). The only saving grace of the Warpriest is that it retains its full caster abilities, which is not what most PF2e players were looking for from the Doctrine (specially since PF1e Warpriests were beasts in combat). Ultimately, as with everything in Pathfinder2e, it works fine. The sad thing is that it could've been a hell lot more. If the Cleric was released today, it would look very differently, because the developers know what classes need in order to be fun and smooth to play. Anyway, great video as always and it's amazing to see a new-ish player "get" Pathfinder so much. Also, please, don't worry too much about the numbers looking a little too close, as you yourself saw while playing the Magus, actual combat feels and plays very differently from theoretical expectations. Odds are, this Warpriest would have a ton of interesting options that a Thief wouldn't dream of or a Flurry Ranger (while these two classes would have far more "perfect" turns).

[@simonO712]

While I still wish it scaled slightly better, I'd argue it did get a pretty significant buff in the remaster.

[@LightningRaven42]

@@simonO712 The new War Priest is pretty good. The new feats make them actually interesting to play now.

[@kwagmeijer26]

also keep in mind, that if a character has high AC and high reflex, they might have low fort or will save, and you can choose to target those saves instead, saving you some average DPR against that creature. For that reason, I think this build may actually be a bit better in the DPR department than some of those other builds... though I suppose ultimately worse against low AC high save enemies.

[@nicolaskoukis4264]

One thing that you didn't mention is the fact that you can heal yourself as well as your allies, meaning that if enemies attack you, you can just heal yourself and add the damage through Divine Weapon. That combined with Replenishment of War means you are *surprisingly* tanky as a Cleric. That is not to mention that every round the enemies ignore you, they ignore the top healer in the party and a decent damage dealer to boot, so it puts them in a really rough situation. That I think is the real power of this build. I've been playing an Aphodite Human War Cleric of Pharasma to about 10th level, and I've had a blast. If you do pick that build, I would heavily suggest Preemptive Reconfiguration. It is surprisingly useful to be concealed as a reaction for 4 rounds, especially against large groups of enemies. That being said, you need to be on the lookout for opportunity attacks. Spells with the Somatic component have the manipulate trait, which triggers opportunity attacks. If the attacker crits, the spell is canceled (not to mention the fact that you are also crit). It is one of those things that makes playing this character tricky at times, but as long as you keep an eye out, you should be good. Also Battle Medicine has the Manipulate trait.

[@angrenost1410]

Thanks for making this! I have always enjoyed your channel but the ogl really soured me on 5e. So I am very glad to be able to keep following you for P2e content.👍

[@JediMage]

Btw, if you pick Zohls as your deity (LG goddess of logic and investigation) you get a d12 heavy crossbow, since deadly simplicity gets applied. So there, the good god who wants to shoot hard )

[@Oniphire]

Reload 2 will destroy the DPR that Colby is always chasing though

[@Ghostdesuu]

Heads up, the 3 action version of heal does not get the 8 extra healing like the 2 action version. Also the Jolt Coil spellheart from Treasure Vault lets anyone pick Electric Arc if they buy it! As for the build as a whole, I think you would be giving up very little if you went Cloistered Cleric compared to Warpriest (pretty much would just get weapon prof a bit later and lower fortitude saves) since Champion archetype already covers the armor prof and I'd say having +2 to all of your divine spells is probably worth the delay on weapon accuracy.

[@Luchux177]

As a friendly reminder, the latest errata for the CRB allows you to take the human ability score boosts for any ancestry instead of their three up one down set bonuses.

[@caradine898]

Warpriest gets a lot of crap for having slow proficiency scaling but I do quite love it; I once played a warpriest that dumped Wis (kept at 12) in favor of charisma, strength, dex, and int, and I was still really effective in and out of combat! Being able to heal a ton while still having my other slots for non-offensive utility made playing really fun and interesting as I was constantly bargaining with myself over what I would use my 3 actions for. It's a very solid subclass.

[@JonWaterfall]

Amazing video! I think the community is sleeping on war priest at higher levels. One thing to note about the Air Walk spell I think you'd like to know: Air walk, uses the Stride action to move in the air instead of the Fly action. Meaning it synergizes better with Haste.

[@toodleselnoodos6738]

Not sleeping. Disingenuously biased. The Warpriest was actually fine on release, but the community didn't understand. They "white-boarded" a 20 Warpriest, tried playing it like a Fighter, and claimed that the Warpriest was worthless. The thing is, they weren't playing (or reading) the Warpriest to it's strength. It's been 4 years of many other players (and some KZbinr's such as CrunchMcDabbles) have argued over and over how to play the class well, but they still get ignored. Colby is very brave to make a character build video for a very contentious class. Props to him!

[@peterstedman6140]

​​@@toodleselnoodos6738for some reason it seems to rub people wrong that you can't just wrangle non single target melee dps classes into doing single target melee damage just as well

[@levia.phillips4311]

I love the new background!!!! Learning all about pathfinder in addition to dnd is one of my favorite changes to this channel, though I do really love the dnd builds. Just surprised you haven’t run out of ideas!!

[@deepmind299]

Yeah! More Pathfinder!

[@timseyer6769]

You will have so much fun with the swashbuckler once you get to the advanced rules methinks 😊

[@chaseholloway4922]

Pros and cons from the POV of a recent dnd refugee... I will be speaking out if both sides of my mouth here: Pro: I am glad to see that all of your builds are so close to one another in damage. I love to see balance between classes and builds in Pathfinder. It is a true breath of fresh air and that is one of the best parts about Pathfinder. Con: considering all of the other things that the cleric brings to the table, I was hoping to see that the damage capabilities would be noticeably lower than the other characters. I don't want full spell casters to be able to do as much damage as a character that can ONLY do damage. Really liking the Pathfinder content!

[@ivansmashem]

Love the new PF2e vids. I am learning PF2e in preparation for a campaign a friend wants to run, and these videos are the most helpful in terms of figuring out what's important to me during character creation.

[@jessebenson1309]

My favourite crb “gish” would probably be a wild order Druid (or any Druid with wildshape wild order is just the easiest way). By lvl 3 you essentially have two “modes”, one being your normal form with the incredibly powerful primal spell list and the other being your wild shape form that makes you just as effective as a full martial character if you keep str at max.

[@Melidus53]

I have found that my players are usually close to full health at the start of encounters, with any small lack of hp being a result of them not wanting to spend anymore time healing just a handful of hit points.

[@Chadius]

The nice thing about Harm, especially for a Warpriest, is that it doesn't affect Multiple Attack Penalty, only a Will Save. If you're in melee, you can cast Harm and touch em, then BONK with your weapon and then Raise your shield (or cast Shield.) It isn't too bad to be behind other martials when you can spam Harm instead.

[@strategicviewpoint6672]

War Priest is a great support class. Feat that allows Harm Spells to knock prone, Feat that allows Heal Spells to give allies bonuses, Feat that allows Heals to grant +2 AC. If Advanced Players Guide is allowed, Premonition of Danger is a must take feat (+2 to save as a reaction)

[@Oniphire]

If you're talking about Premonition of Avoidance that +2 only applies to hazards like traps and haunts

[@strategicviewpoint6672]

@@Oniphire You are correct it is called Premonition of Avoidance and it does only apply to hazards. What Pathfinder defines as a hazard I am unsure about......

[@Oniphire]

@@strategicviewpoint6672 CRB pg520 Haunts, traps, & environmental hazards.

[@aralornwolf3140]

As for serving two gods... it has been done. You could be a cleric/champion of the Dwarf Pantheon, the Elf Pantheon, the Egyptian Pantheon.. the Pantheon acts like a single god with edicts and anathemas harmonized (except for the one which has both Ragathiel _and_ Arazni... polite people don't mention Arazni in front of Ragathiel worshipers, lol). The other thing, is in the Gods and Magic book is a level 1 Cleric Feat _Syncretism_ (page 105) which permits the Cleric to serve another god... as long as the two gods they serve have overlapping concerns and aren't in opposition to each other. *Looks at Pharasma and Arazni both hating Undead... but Pharasma also wants Arazni to be destroyed for being Undead herself*

[@JRTIntervencion]

26:50 kinda, yeah. Played several tier 1? (LVL1~5?) games and unless we spam treat wounds between combat we're in grave danger X) You don't wanna engage in a fight at half or 3/4 HP 38:08 I'm kinda thorn on Haste. Yeah it's 1 more action but I've found that Slowing enemies is more impactful. Though ofc your 3action heal+attack is very nice :) Despite 3A heal not being as strong as the 2A one sometimes is just what you need: a small but quick patch-me-up on AOE

[@ajmacewan7285]

I know these builds aren't getting your usual traffic, but I gotta say thank you for this one particularly my friend. I'm playing a Hobgoblin Warpriest in a campaign and this video went immediately into one of my saved Playlists. Long time fan and I want to personally express my gratitude for this one. Looking forward to the next 5e build, or whatever content you and the gang wanna put out. You're a light on this platform and for this community my friend. Much love to you and yours.

[@gamereaperoz]

Another thing to add with the Divine Wrath spell. Even though it says "Those that neither match nor oppose it treat the result of their saving throw as one degree better" they still don't take damage, since their immunity is baked into the damage type. The save is mainly to determine if they are affected by the sickened condition, so even if you have allies with a neutral alignment you only have to worry about them getting a critical failure bumped up to a failure.

[@deckerjake438]

The perfect video for me!!! Thank you thank you

[@SwingRipper]

I would argue that a druid also makes a pretty solid gish with their transformation subclass and ability to strike + electric arc In lore Iomedae's followers use all variety of swords, so there is an "argue with your GM" idea there lol

[@toodleselnoodos6738]

Ya, a Wild Druid is pretty good, though you treat the playstyle similar to Barbarian. Gotta choose when you'll be casting and when you won't. Though the nice thing about Cleric is that you can poach some useful spells from other spell lists. Ragathiel, for example, grants you access to True Strike and also works with Versatile Font (can use either Heal or Harm with your Divine Font). True Strike + (Divine Weapon) + 2-Handed Channel Smite (highest Harm/Heal) is some solid damage for a full caster.

[@federicocaravani3474]

Ronald isn’t strictly wrong, but also not literally correct. A better wording would be “The difficulty rating of encounters is exact if players begin at full resources”. So being low on health (or spells) at the start of a combat makes the encounter harder than indicated. If you have to choose between starting a fight lightly damaged or letting a buff expire… usually I’d keep the buff. It’s basically an extension of “encounter balance works”. It works, but your character is part of it, and the game makes assumptions. Doesn’t make it mandatory.

[@TsurugisFlame]

Since you technically know every common divine spell as a cleric, and most of those fiddly restoration type spells are common, you could just carry around scrolls for them as needed. Granted you would be spending some of your hard earned cash on making sure you have those spells on hand instead of other things, but it's still not a bad option in my opinion

[@Taliesyn42]

Once you're able to get them, wands of Restoration are useful too.

[@maryclarence6429]

I run a PF2 gmae and most my party usually heals up to around 70-80% between fights. I think the Warpriest gets a bad rap, it's a bit tougher to put together a great build but it's definitely possible. Not the most optimized build but warpriest with an athletics focus and the wrestler archetype is a ton of fun.

[@BrandonHobbyist]

Let's go. I can certainly play this.

[@LordoftheAces]

So while technically not a spellsword, since you most likely won't be using swords, but hear me out, druid. They have access to the primal list, which has better blasting capacity than cleric, they have medium armor proficiency (with the restriction of not wearing metal, however now with treasure vault there are non-metal armor options other than hide), they progress about the same as a warpriest. With a splash of fighter dedication, you get access to all martial weapons, with the right ancestry you can get access to some incredible ancestry tied weapons and treat them as simple (or martial if the weapon is advanced), you can get some nasty weapons, there are feats to make your weapon your focus (with some restriction, such that the weapon not be made of metal or contain mechanical parts) and have it treated as both silver and cold iron. I am living it right now, as an oread dwarf druid part cavalier dedication part fighter dedication riding a terror bird swinging a greatclub around from atop my majestic steed,slinging spells and cracking heads, both far and near as being mounted gives me reach, with stoneskin to fortify durability, and a warcry

[@ghostyuki-kfpinquisitor1038]

Yay Ragathiel. Harm isn't that bad for dmg (rng permitting). 1d10/spell level with harming hands and a basic save so you're likely doing at least half dmg. There are other ancestry/heritages that can get you a cantrip though they usually scale off charisma (which isn't bad as a cleric since you need it for your font anyway) Reason for grabbing field medic reminds me of the barbarian i made. Was a spirit barb with medic and martial artist (and from 9 onward, champ). Needed half-elf for champ (yay 8 cha), though blessed one can substitute without. Just your basic human with hands that control both life and death. For moderate encounters and below you can usually get away with less than full health if rng doesn't completely dunk on you. Harder moderate to extreme, yeah you want to be at full or as close as possible. A cure-all? May i introduce you to the medic archetype's treat condition or champion/blessed one's mercy? In my opinion medic arche first would make more sense on this build since you don't need the proficiencies as bad. Also the archetype is great if you want to use medicine in general (and easy to get out of because of treat condition and doctor's visitation). Who has medicine is basically one thing I ask every party I'm in. (or lay on hands) Feels like warpriest/medic/blessed one (though champ's ok too) would be a good combination for this one. The other benefit of orc ferocity keeping you up is you can use some of your mountain of heals the following turn to do something about it. For enemies, poisons are actually pretty common. I'd probably recommend fast recovery then toughness in terms of general feats (when con is high enough). Forensic investigator + medic is probably the strongest medicine. Cd reduced from a day to an hour from invest, ignore cd once from medic, bonus healing from both. Combine with lay on hands for a frankly comical amount of healing.

[@lagautmd]

While the total damage numbers might be similar, PF2e is designed with so many types of damage and the types matter more. Some enemies are particularly vulnerable to piercing damage. Your mace-wielding fighter will not reach their maximum DPR with that weapon against that creature.

[@Fantasyscaping]

Colby! Thanks for the awesome builds brother. Been following you for sometime now and have already a few characters under my belt inspired by your videos. This particular video inspired my current and favorite character thus far "Angus" is my half-orc, slightly perverse, hard hitting, lust filled Warpriest of Calistria!

[@queenannsrevenge100]

Also, even though I have heard people tout Pathfinder as not having any “must-have” choices, I disagree, with the medicine-related feats being the biggest examples. So far, I’ve made: A fighter with battle medic, medic dedication, and cont. recovery; An Alchemist with medic dedication, cont. recovery, and ward medic; And a Cleric with cont. recovery, and ward medic 😄 And Assurance in medicine if I can spend it They’re just TOO GOOD not to have - I don’t care if I’m not the main healer, if I’m ever in a situation with a split party I want them for myself.

[@Melidus53]

Keep in mind that plate armor has the bulwark trait, which treats your dex modifier as a 3 for damaging reflex saves. Taking dex to 12 and wearing medium armor could give you plus 1 ac over heavy, but then you are at a net loss of 2 for any reflex saves against damage, and most reflex saves are against damage.

[@ljt974]

Woo! It's PF week at d4 and I just finished GMing my very first game! Even though I'll likely not have much chance to play, as I'm introducing my gaming group to this system so will be the one running it, I'm really enjoying your videos on the system. You're helping me learn even more about the game and become more familiar with its mechanics, all whilst being very entertaining along the way (and I agree, good gods should want to hit hard too, d12s are way too much fun to only let the bad guys have them). I can't wait until I can start a campaign of this game, every time I play it I enjoy it even more, but alas this was only a one shot and we're back into our Call of Cthulhu campaign next week, but you can be sure once that's over in a few months I'll be ready! Anyway... thanks Colby, you and you channel are awesome fun, and I've loved seeing you in the Rules Lawyer's campaigns too!

[@JankTank]

Thank you for continuing to make these videos. I really appreciate them, and they've been helping me get to learn this system!

[@justinschmelzel8806]

So, just a fun fact, remember that prepared casters prepare each slot individually in 2e. This means if you want to cast magic weapon more than once a day you need to prepare it more than once. In this respect, while having fear and magic weapon can be good you could also consider just having 2 slots of magic weapon. And this is also the case for later spells. So pick your favorite twice and an off shoot once and you are good to go. Edit: also becuase of the way the "counteract" rules work in 2e the remove x spells don't actually do what you want them to do 19 times out of 20. Because you have to crit succeed to counteract something of higher level than you any creature or spell effect higher level than you is probably going to stick, and because it is higher level the DC will ALSO be pretty high, meaning you only actually remove it on a nat 20. Though this does mean if you are fighting a bunch of lower level monsters you basically remove it even if you fail on the check only failing if you crit fail, which again since it is lower level in this case it would probably only happen on a nat 1.

[@mattdahm4289]

Thanks Colby, love your creativity and D&D optimization mastery!

[@TheRobversion1]

only issue i have with the warpriest and why i'd prefer a fighter/ranger/champion base + caster dedication for a gish is that they'll miss alot due to having only expert prof. i think having at least master prof is required for gishing. champions imo do this best, at least for CRB only, as they have access to focus spells with the undeath, destruction or pain domains as solid picks for gishing. then for focus point recovery, take adopted ancestry for gnome to pick up energized font and animal accomplice (focused familiar). i do like the CRB-limitation btw. i do like cleric though as a caster dedication for a caster class to pick up the emblazon feat tree. so far in my pf2e experience, due to treat wounds and accessibility of healing spells, we are typically full health in between combats.

[@PoppaRocks87]

Love that you're doing Pathfinder now! Thanks for the great builds and videos!

[@rainey82]

This type of information is incredibly helpful to me as a GM. I love helping my players fulfill their PC vision!

[@GuitarGuyNick]

correction on resistance: its per source of damage. everytime there was a fire damage source every fire damage would get reduced by that number. just an fyi. other than that great video!

[@dedalesigma6755]

From the core rulebook, Monk would be my favorite chassis for a gish, I would be using either a temple sword, a dogslicer, or maybe shurikens. For the free archetype I would take wizard for cantrips and rogue dedication. The typical round would be Flurry of blows(or better ki strike) followed by a save cantrip (like electric arc). Combats are brutal with the tight math, while some combats can be done without being at full health, they are also the less satisfying ones anyway. My newbie DM had the brilliant idea to punish us for retreating after a long dungeon by making a Mid boss ambush the party resulting in a tpk. After some table drama, we decided to give it another shot and make new characters. The ambush factor that had made the combat so one-sided, worked in our favor the second time and we destroyed that mid-boss thanks to focus fire and after 4 turns we defeated the actual boss.

[@pndmike6330]

4:30 "My favourite thing to do with a support character, heal, buff, bring down the righteous wrath on my enemies" I love War-Cleric. He is friend, he mend, he bring your accursed, wretched life to an end.

[@jedidiahbarnes6127]

I really love how this really shows that the warpriest is potentially as strong as any other class. As it is frequently touted as being a weak option.

[@gustavonogueira6289]

I find it really interesting to see how balanced the builds are and seeing PF2e math working in the master comparison table. I'm curious to see how it develops as more builds are added. It's also interesting to kind of seeing roles appearing in classes in regards to damage as the thief was the hardest hitting one. Again I want to see how the table develops to see if I can confirm that thought.

[@qwertystania]

An additional skill feat that works well with medicine is assurance. It allows you to never fail a battle medicine or treat wounds check. You still have the option to roll and get a stronger heal if the math works out for that, but you can simply choose to succeed on a lower healing check.

[@SoFishtry]

With the CRB-only restriction, it might be a bit awkward, but it is possible to make a gish-y alchemist that works well. In PF1E the melee alchemist options were famously great power gaming options, which didn't carry over to PF2E, but nonetheless, the options are there and you might find them interesting. That said, I'm not sure they will appear numerically strong using your current methods. A lot of the Alchemist's strength is in diversity and being able to bring 'good' options to every situation, but not 'optimal' ones. Because of that, if your training dummy is designed to test optimal damage with no regard for downsides, the Alchemist sort of breaks.

[@Justkidding277]

I'm really glad you give a spotlight to the Kickstarters. Always looking for new books!

[@kieranslater7437]

Good on ya Colby for noticing something I noticed about making gish characters in Pathfinder. Cleric works really well for this since almost every divine attack spell requires a saving throw to resist. Whenever you get to the psychic, you can do something similar since the divine and occult spell list have a spell called heroism which can make up for the lower weapon proficiency that spell casters suffer from compared to martial classes.

[@GabrielMPaixao]

One important thing at 20:45 critical success on a Treat Wounds check doesn't heal double. Sure, it goes from 2d8 to 4d8, but you can attempt harder DCs to increase the healing by a fixed value (DC 20 for +10, DC 30 for +30 and DC 40 for +50 if you are expert, master and legendary, respectively) and that doesn't double with a crit

[@ProtoFire8]

Walk before you run? How dare you. Just start running! Get swamped in all of the fun! Nethys keeps it all in a nice bundle for me.

[@842zaq1]

I played a Ragathiel Warpriest in one of Ronald's games, I'd like to think Sean recommended that diety cause I showcased him well