The War Within Alpha Destruction Overhaul & BIG Demonology Nerf!

Earlier, Destruction received its first revisions and Demonology was nerfed!
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Intro: 0:00
Destro Changes: 0:34
Demo Changes: 14:09
Demo Combat: 19:06
Destro Combat: 24:32
Patreon, Summary and Outro: 28:25
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S4 Demonology Guide: • Patch 10.2.6 Demonolog...
S4 Destruction Guide: • Patch 10.2.6 Destructi...
S4 Affliction Guide: • Patch 10.2.6 Afflictio...
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[@Reignmaker1]

These changes are not an update, they are not an evolution or an improvement. They removed retail talents and put in talents worthy of being in vanilla trees. This isn't an update, it's regression

[@gampie13]

welcome to how hunter has been treated for multiple expansions, grab a seat, you are in for a wild apathetic ride...

[@Invhytas]

It's actually impressive how they were able to make destro of all things, a spec that is by all means still stuck in the BC/Wrath era and plays like warlock does in SoD, even more boring and uninteresting. Like that's an achievement.

[@chloeaddams537]

completely gutted the spec.

[@nthnthms1212]

Waaaaaaah waaaaaaah

[@gandalfdengra5580]

Removing Avatar and adding Decimating? Yeah alright, I'm rerolling.

[@WhyDahRumGone]

seems like a copout.... like if your going to remove something new for this expansion and replace it with something from a previous one.... let alone a captone...at minimum design us something else new

[@anormalguytrading2052]

Alpha my guy, breath lets see what happens.

[@JKane_88]

same, Blizzard is clueless as most of these "devs" are lol. Bunch of idiots

[@bacadihelmut8184]

bro rerolling cause of alpha? yeah then pls do and dont look back at changes they will make in alpha and beta before TWW launches. Its an alpha... things will go from good too bad or from bad too good very often

[@VileVamp]

@@anormalguytrading2052 Nope, we've done this before, DF has been nothing but flops for lock lol.

[@HMartin0586]

These changes really speak to a lack of vision and imagination for what Warlocks should be as a class and specs. Comparing what we have to what some other classes have received is like night and day.

[@floodsye]

This. I'm not saying every spec rework has been flawless, but take a look at the one's they've done. Rogue: Fast, thematic gameplay with good combat flow. Luck and Stealth playing central roles. Paladin: From boring and squishy to a hard-hitting, short CD based powerhouse. A warrior of the Light, a mix of Rogue and Warrior with a spin. Mage: Though the tuning isn't quite there sometimes, the rework is all about core mage abilities, making community favorites like Glacial Spike the go-to, making Blizzard baseline etc. Shadow Priest: Listened to Spriest players wanting to be a powerful, centralized caster that saps their targets with Void and DoTs...and that's exactly what they got, a sort of caster version of Fury warrior/outlaw rogue with wide cleave. THE OTHER CLASS DEVS LISTEN!!! Ok, maybe not Shaman, but the others AT LEAST TRY! That's what pisses me off. The other class devs are trying to make their players happy, they might not always succeed and there's give and take of course. The warlock dev(s) are out here attempting to take Warlock back to the Vanilla days...which will make us useless outside of our healthstones. And more importantly, it'll be UNFUN to play. WTF.

[@attinger117]

The grass is always greener. Warlocks complaining about other classes is kind of funny.

[@Etensei]

@@floodsye I wouldn't even say shadow's rework was that good. I've been a fan of 10.0 SPriest more than the rework forever now. They just made their damage insane so it looks like it plays fine but shadow crash sucks ass with keeping dots up outside of void form and you had waaaaaaay more mobility with instant cast mind spikes alongside empowered mind flays for damage, not to mention my beloved mind sear being gone (which made their aoe fantastic outside of CDs). This feels like that but they didnt even try to add anything cool or new to warlock.

[@chriseggroll]

RIP Big Purp. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about this talent. It's epic, thematic and a good capstone for aoe

[@Outwardpd]

It is hard to complain about when the entire spec is so badly designed but it is a very boring talent tbh since they removed its ability to synergize with other infernal talents. But it was a horrifically bad move to remove it and not replace it with anything. The fact that such a boring talent being removed gets people upset speaks volumes to how bad destro is designed.

[@oatfarls]

Demo is becoming less and less mobile, and more dependent on Shadow Bolt, which will never feel good to cast due to the very nature of being a filler spell. Destruction is losing the thematic ability to rain Infernals down on enemies. A capstone talent (Chaos Incarnate) is now a dps loss to take on alpha. Many talents are as simple as "X spells have 5% increased crit damage," which is the simplistic kind of thing you would see in Vanilla. It's like the devs are obsessed with removing anything that could ever potentially be too powerful and have forgotten what the game should be: fun.

[@williamgraham5924]

It’s because people bitch the games too complicated when it’s not.

[@Bloodyscissors]

Hero talents got me excited for Warlock, but the base class changes are making it a hard pass.

[@alexis1156]

It's an "overhaul all right. If i were a warlock main this would be the time where i would think about rerolling

[@jethrodark2372]

Nah, i just rather skip the game till they make my class fun and enjoyable. Thank god i dont preorder anymore due to how the gaming landscape has been over the years. I stopped preordering years ago, and due to SL i waited till 1 day before launch to buy DF. So im gonna do the same with TWW and if they keep Demo screwed i will just skip idc anymore, i have a ton of games on my steam backlog that are better than WoW anyway.

[@alexis1156]

@@jethrodark2372 i play many characters, so for me I can just play something else, but I am disgusted by how they treated warlock. At the end of the day I'd rather have a class be good to play than not. I don't have this weird obsession with taking pleasure when another class is bad like some players do.

[@jethrodark2372]

@@alexis1156 yeah i want all classes to be good, but ive allways mained Warlock. I have plenty alts but if i cant main my Lock id rather skip.

[@AR-jf1fv]

I rerolled 3 seasons ago 😂

[@Grunkerticus]

warlock mains 'try not to act like you play the class with three of the most consistent dps specs the game has had since vanilla that are constantly babysat by blizzard' challenge

[@poulthomas469]

Demo was fun in 10.0 everything after was just tearing it down.

[@guccigang9881]

I can kinda see where they want to go with destro, and i feel like more changes can fix it. Demo on the other hand is screwed, they just killed it. There's a serious design flaw on how the developers view the spec.

[@enzoshink7597]

They said demo was dead so many times and every single patch it is one of the highest dps in the game

[@kharics2122]

@@enzoshink7597 DPS ≠ Good Spec. They are legit killing Demo in Design. Would you consider an Spec that ONLY presses 1 Button be 30% above everything else a good spec?

[@marcpaulus6291]

@@enzoshink7597 this shows that they dont understand the specc and killing things that makes him fun to play instead of simply nerfing spell percentages

[@benceszucs4619]

@@kharics2122 1 button? Demo is legit like playing a piano, destru and bm is almost a one button spec, even paladin, but demo?

[@guccigang9881]

@enzoshink7597 If it's top damage, that would be even worse. That means in raid, I'm locked in to playing a spec that feels like shit.

[@jarosawdylewski9507]

Why do I feel warlock designer actively hates warlocks? Especially destruction? I have a theory that Season 2 and 3 Dragonflight tier sets were designed out of spite. "You don't like CDF? Now you HAVE to like it", "Not fan of rifts? Too bad, here's a set that will force you to use it". Also - Destro becomes Stier in highly coordinated groups doing very high keys where tanks are able to pull several packs and stand in place (so basically 0.1% of the playerbase) - let's ruin that too. We can't have destro being relevant in any content other than single target patchwerk bosses right? Oh stop crying - here's a cool spell nobody liked in Shadowlands. Hope you enjoy. Toodlee doo

[@characterantula4868]

People liked decimating bolt in shadowlands. It just was overshadowed by another covenants ability. Not taking and not liking arent the same thing. People did play destro and demo as necrolord though and no one complained it was horrible gameplay or that the ability wasnt fun to play with as those two specs

[@ZulatobariGreatforge]

@@characterantula4868 Not to mention, S4 of SL, Decimating Bolt was at last getting picked more than Soul Rot for Destro locks, and was like, 50/50 for Demo locks. Destro could almost 1-shot ppl in PvP w/ Decimating Bolt+Incinerate w/ cooldowns.

[@kraken3844]

Decimating bolt should come back to Core Class Tree and share a node with Impending Catastrophe as a capstone. Basically single target or AoE.

[@ZulatobariGreatforge]

Honestly, Decimating Bolt should be a no-cooldown replacement for Chao Bolt, something like Hand of Gul'dan, where the number of 'decimating bolts' (3 by default) depends on available Soul Shards spent, up to 3. Remove Incinerate buff, since we have Burn to Ashes. I.E., each Soul Shard spent on Decimating Bolt grants a Burn to Ashes stack. As for Impending Catastrophe... it should've been the keystone for the Hellcaller Hero Spec. >_>

[@phantasm5347]

Avatar of Destruction was the only reason I played Destro in Season 4 of Shadowlands... Combined with Wilfred's and Summon Infernal. This iiiiiiinnnnnsaaaaaneeee shard generation, rain/chaos bolt spam. Destro was a goddamn machine gun. It was soooo fun.... Guess I'm never getting that back. 🙄🙄🙄 I'm staying on my Fire Mage. This sucks.

[@DEUS_VULT_INFIDEL]

If they're worried about the Blasphemy detracting from the feeling of Infernal, then just remove the stun and change the actual model into a felfire elemental that erupts from the ground. Keep the shard generation because that feels good, maybe give it a small knock-up / knock-back effect since it explodes out of the ground or just leave it as free bonus damage, ez. And it's not unprecedented, Warlocks using weird elementals. Voidwalkers have been weird elementals forever, and there's precedent for non-Shaman using elementals in the iconic Water Elemental of the Frost Mage. Edit: Also, Decimating Bolt's placement feels awkward because it has zero relation to Ritual of Ruin. Avatar of Destruction was intrinsic to it, in that every completed Ritual would summon a Blasphemy. All Decimating Bolt does, besides damage, is increase the damage of your next 3 incinerates by 40%, which ties into Burn to Ashes insofar as increased Incinerate damage is concerned, but even Burn to Ashes has more to do with Ritual of Ruin because it works off of your Soul Shard spenders. Thematically, compared to Avatar of Destruction Decimating Bolt just comes in completely out of left field and for no greater reason than they had to remove the Observer skin from your Felhunter. It's honestly awful design, something I should think one wouldn't expect out of a big money studio, yet here we are and big money studios seem to be making all the worst decisions imaginable. Edit2: I'm almost certain Chaos Incarnate was nerfed to make Dimensional Rift more appealing. What I don't understand is why they wouldn't roll the s3 tier effects into DR to accomplish that instead, but then we've seen with the changes to Demo they don't mind actively making a spec feel worse if it's in line with their goals.

[@mooonpaw]

IF they're taking Avatar of Destruction away, then they need to make Infernal 2 min cd baseline. Screw 3 min crap.

[@Noname-dd8ik]

The real crappy thing is waiting another week to see if they address the demo change based on the overwhelming negative feedback

[@_reenzane]

EZ fix for Avatar nmot breaking their philosophy: Green Infernal stuns, purple Blasphemy does not. Boom fixed

[@Draenal]

I only briefly played warlock in SL, and I am definitely an amateur with the spec, but the reliable core procs from your dogs despawning was essential to making that rotation feel smooth. I also believe that the major demon summon for each spec (tyrant/darkglare/infernal) should be considered core to the spec. The specs and trees should be designed such that you always have those abilities. That just *is* warlock.

[@Gowu26]

Why adding Decimating Bolt instead of splitting Chaos Incarnate and Dimensional Rift and put Dimensional Rift in Decimating Bolt spot. Such more more more thematic for Destro

[@ZulatobariGreatforge]

I'd be scared they'd also make Dimensional Rift a passive that only opens when you consume Ritual of Ruin. Like Avatar of Destruction, just instead of an infernal, its a dimensional rift.

[@mooonpaw]

Soulfire needs a visual update. You can barely see it at all.

[@dspursuer]

it was better in vanilla, same as incinerate looked better in TBC :) wow devs just love downgrading stuff

[@SpencerNeutron]

Have you noticed that the blue post is titled “The Path Ahead” but they didn’t actually describe the destination? They REFUSE to.

[@asherhawkins362]

And we thought we were done with borrowed power

[@biggestsquidd5948]

i hope they dont absolutely screw demo man, PLEASE BLIZZ REVERT THIS CHANGE

[@_Andael_]

when this shit goes live after 16 years playing destro im gonna reroll the first time...avatar of destruction was the only other cc except half an hour cd on kick and only aoe stun and why the fuck is still inferno/cata these idiots never learn they should fire the dev for warlock

[@enzoshink7597]

Destro warlock was my safe alternative to frost dk (which they will prob make worse) for tww... i think they want all casters to go shadow priest, fire mage or evoker and all melees to go ret... idk i dont even feel like buying the xpac

[@jessicahampton4581]

You got that right fire/frost mage for tww

[@yazan80]

I was waiting for this. Worth the wait. We are lucky to have such a great voice for warlocks.

[@L0ci93]

I mained warlock for 13 years and slowly but surely got burnt out with it. I always wanted a bit more, like Blizz taping into the warlock fantasy or just more reactive abilities instead of the Chaos Bolt glass cannon we have. Takeing away Avatar is another step back on what caused the burn out, sure it was only used in M+ but it alteast kinda fit the vibe check. Really disappointed overall :(

[@18Rada89]

Glass cannon? It's the tankiest dps in the game outside immunities

[@ammox4683]

The shard generation is baked into rain of fire now, this was mentioned in the patch notes either that or the wowhead post I forget where I saw it and when you hover over Rain of Fire talent node the tooltip says it generates shards, I don't know why people think it's a bug, it's a feature.

[@GranitWall]

Wowheads' talent calc is based on data mined stuff. May be buged.

[@fatihkilbil]

Idk about the US forums but in the EU forums I didn't see an explanation or tooltip wording regarding the shard generation.

[@ammox4683]

@@fatihkilbil It might be wrong but the 10% chance to generate a soulshard fragment is in the Alpha Tooltip you can even see it when Kalamzi hovers over it in the video, meaning it's in the alpha build itself not on a datamined forum post.

[@matthewshull9345]

I don't know how you keep yourself so calm and reserved going through these changes. Whoever is in charge of this clearly is unaware of what they are doing. I'm a warlock, man I love being a warlock, I don't know if my guild even knows I have another toon. But man I some be playing Warlock anymore if these changes actually make it to a live build.

[@TheGfr666]

A decimating bolt fits more into the destruction fantasy the raining down infernals? Whoever is running the destro lock show needs to be replaced or give his/her damn head a shake! Doesnt look like they are going to address the issue of having to spec into havok in a pure ST build either :(

[@Ooey3]

I agree with you on demo. I love having reliable demon cores. Although, they did say they want demon core to feel like a "moment". I interpreted that as we will rarely get demon cores. Maybe once every 30-60 seconds. This update did exactly that. Yes that does make talents less delicious. I am not surprised based on their warning.

[@gaelceillier2518]

They could change dog to not give any Demonic Core when they die, but give 1 garantied core when you cast them. This would help with the timings at pulls and permit 3° dog without any probleme of balancing the free movments.

[@maximilianmeier1441]

Would be a good solution. Maybe also a Core when they fade and nerf Core gen from fading imps instead. Less RNG is key!

[@OhDorm]

@@maximilianmeier1441 no, nerfing imp cores would lead to shadow bolt simulator. Thats a terrible idea but the core on cast with dogs is a good one.

[@Walocial]

Removing Avatar is so wrong, but what's also criminal is not having either rain of fire or cataclysm as baseline spells. It sucks to see such an awful approach, even if it might change - it has to.

[@christosapokotou]

Hopefully on the talent "pruning" patch they take away those boring deal X more dmg / gain X more critical etc on both Specs...those have no right to be called talents, especially when the tree is full of those. Decimating bolt is going to be a fire and forget spell but it's good for both Executing + Bursty Phases (dmg increase for a few seconds). Demonology still looks okay to play , considering at that point in alpha there is barely any haste to cast those shadowbolts, But I think they should become a bit spicier. Maybe have a (2min?) CD that turns it into Shadow bolt Volley, sending 3 shadow bolts instead of 1, for like 10-20 seconds. Would help with less implosions, and each shadow bolt hitting a target could give a shard, so in AoE you get more shards, and be able to cast a HOG after each Volley, which in turn gives faster implosions, with a cooldown One side of the Tree should be more AoE Focused, The Other Side should be more Single Target focused, with the middle having both AoE+Single Target bonuses Tyrant and its usage has become more and more useless. I think it's time to either bake the dmg of Grimoire into Tyrant and remove Grimoire Completely, with the capstone making it Spicier. Increase his CD to 2mins to Compensate. Tyrant is now Baseline and our Main Cooldown for Both ST + AoE Right Side - Single Target 1) Summon Felguard now also summons a Felhunter by his side, the Felhunter will follow the same commands you give to your felguard and bite the target whenever you consume a demonic core (Essentially Double Pet warlock Fantasy (passive dmg) + Extra damage whenever you use your cores Ala Immutable hatred to tune it accordingly) 2) Your Demonic Tyrant, makes your felguard his 2nd in command increasing his Critical Strike Chance by 30%, each time your Felguard critically strikes, All Imps Empowered by your Tyrant are extended by 1 second (tuned accordingly with Crit Strike Chance, and Extended Seconds. Could also increase Crit Strike dmg for Both Felguard and Imps) Left Side - Heavy AoE 1) Doom - Current Iteration with the Capstone Pact of Ered'Ruin Baked into it, HOG also Reduces its duration like Doombolt right now ( Could also make it spread whenever it expires to 1 more target) 2) ShadowBolt Volley - 2 Min CD - Your Shadow bolt is empowered for 15 seconds and turns into Shadowbolt Volley , sending up 3 Volleys (Based on Enemy count). Each Volley Generates a Soulshard and applies Doom Central - Both AoE + ST 1) Make Hogs reduce CD of Tyrant instead of GWD (Making it an around 1 min CD with Diabolist talents that reduce Grimoire turning it into a small consistent CD. If this is too powerful and creates peaks, then you could make it have a consequence Like your HOG will not spawn any More Imps during Tyrant other than the ones empowered by him 2) Your Tyrants casts can now splash damage into nearby targets. If more than 1 target is hit your tyrant goes into a frenzy increasing his casting speed by X%

[@chewyy50]

Just on the Chaos Incarnate rework: it isn’t worded clearly but it is likely that they mean that the additional random bonus is not random anymore (50% expected value) but now 70% of max value always. Otherwise it would be plain stupid lol

[@ProteanSquid]

Is it possible the wording on Chaos Incarnate means that you always get 70% of the additional random damage, not 70% total? As in, if your mastery said you get 10k + 0-10k, you'd always get 10k+7k.

[@kronax9252]

why does it seem like the Demo devs all think we want to cast SB

[@GranitWall]

Its not an overhaul, its a big nerf.

[@dsully225]

I can't understand why they would admit the talent tree needs a lot of work and push this out anyway. Just do the work the first time

[@WhyDahRumGone]

decimating bolt should go on a choice node with soulfire not a capstone

[@ZulatobariGreatforge]

And make em both replacements for Chaos Bolt. Soul Fire, the long cast time, 1 Soul Shard, applies Immolate Chaos Bolt replacement. Decimating Bolt, the same cast time, 1-3 Soul Shard, Hand of Gul'dan esque Chaos Bolt replacement that fires 1 decimating bolt per Soul Shard spent. Remove the Incinerate buffing, since we have Burn to Ashes already. Each Soul Shard on Decimating Bolt just grants 1 stack of Burn to Ashes, lol.

[@marcpaulus6291]

I think the Hero talents are to blame for the Soulshard regression. Especially the Soul Harvester talents are all about Soul Shard and Demonic Core. Because it would be too strong in the current state of Demo, instead of reworking the Hero talents they nerf the shit out of Core and Sould Shard proccs and ruining Demo overall.... Power Sipphon is already a go to talent but with all this core procc changes it will be pretty much mandatory ( what pretty much means with the talent tree rework this will also be gone) They now that this is bad, thus the talent that reduces the cast time of Shadow bolt but that wont help us. The more haste and haste buffs we will get the worse this talent will become. Rework the Hero Talents Blizzard and dont ruin Demo.

[@RodrigoLinhares]

The Chaos Incarnate change is probably meant to say that your mastery bonus now goes from 70% to 100% instead of 50% to 100%.

[@jrotvtube]

Agreed. I think they just forgot to say "at a minimum" or something similar.

[@Sharpleaf8]

I understand the talent that it works on the second part of the mastery. Meaning that you always get (for example) 10% and then instead of gaining another 0-10% you get always 7%. So on average you would get 17% increase from mastery instead of 15%.

[@fatihkilbil]

@@Sharpleaf8 I don't think so. Tooltip simply changed from "always maximum benefit" to "70% of the maximum benefit". To me that doesn't imply that sort of change.

[@Sharpleaf8]

@@fatihkilbil Yeah i get what you are saying. But it doesn't need to be necessarily a change how the talent works. With the "always maximum benefit" wording it works either way (100% from the whole 20% or 10% + 100% of the 0-10% so damage wise its the same). But to me it doesn't make sense for the talent to also affect the first part because as Kalamazi said in the video it would be damage nerf to pick the talent xD But if the talent only affects the second part of mastery it would atleast make some sense.

[@fatihkilbil]

@@Sharpleaf8 No idea tbh. You are right that it doesn't make sense and its a DPS loss to pick the talent, then, I would say the tooltip is just misleading xD

[@alexanderfrost1336]

Hair looking slick NGL

[@Xadanar]

I truly believe we live in a world where the Warlock Devs hate Warlock... They do nothing but let us down over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[@MakoByte]

I'm guessing the Chaos Incarnate change to 70% is referring to the range after the minimum damage. So if your mastery says 50-100%, you're supposed to instead consistently do 85% increased damage.

[@fatihkilbil]

I don't think so. Tooltip simply changed from "always maximum benefit" to "70% of the maximum benefit". To me that doesn't imply that sort of change.

[@Glenactus]

Is soulfire a niche talent to use in season 4 because no one hardly plays it I have noticed?

[@manialbar]

The problem is that our hero talent depends on cataclysm … there is no way you are going to use inferno if the hero talent did not change

[@marcpaulus6291]

same with Demo side of Hero talents. They all revolve around core and soul shard proccs, especially Soul Harvester, so instead of rworking the Hero talents they screw Demo overall...

[@fenaxtv]

Cool, thx 4 the vid

[@colewalraven3052]

I think if they are bent on it not being an infernal for avatar I would still be happy they brought it back with some other demon summon that maybe casts something like a fnb incinerates. Something a little similar to the spriest thing from beyond maybe

[@bobrr33]

Oh boy. I know its still early but.. i was so exiting about warlock in tww but afzer today i am seriously thingink going mage next xpack. So sad. I am pretty tired, every single xpack close to release the start fucking up warlock. Yet mage is runing and casting insta spells all day 😢

[@bonkyouded]

Good part is that our ST might be stronger now as destro as a execute. Bad part is that our overall dps and aoe has been nerfed.

[@JakeRowland337]

Chaos Incarnate is a capstone talent. If they're worried it's too good and we'll never take rift, then buff rift. If that makes destro too good you can always aura nerf destro. A capstone talent should be a significant source of our damage. I don't know why you would ever want a capstone spec tree talent to feel so unimpactful.

[@alienzm5212]

Destro and Demo mains are soo sad right now i feеl bad for you guys :(

[@vincentproud6589]

Avatar is why I liked destro in M+... spamming stuns made me feel useful and just felt cool. To Firemage I go! Also, I can only assume that CI refers to 70% of the additional amount being added on.

[@alienzm5212]

you love to be op spec ?

[@vincentproud6589]

@@alienzm5212 What? Balance aside, it's just a cool feeling.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Destro was my safe fallback for war within. Now destro looks like something I dont really want to play... we'll see where this goes but it doesnt look good so far. Edit: also how are warlocks getting these changes while mage exists?

[@PsychKenn23]

Demo changes are getting strange. Power Siphon is pretty much a MUST HAVE talent now because of the dog changes. The only way nerfing the dog core economy really makes sense is if they add back in a third dog talent but you end up with the same problem in that it becomes mandatory. We'll see where this goes long term but so far I'm confused with what the end result is going to be.

[@blubomberwilly]

If you look at the RoF base talent it has a 10% chance to generate a fragment which is does not on Live.

[@VileVamp]

The dev needs to be fired, this is pure incompetence.

[@Malavander]

The only thing that will make CDF and SF appealing to me is casting while moving. There's such an abundance of movement mechanics these days, spells like that are just so impractical in an already extremely immobile spec.

[@PapaFidgey]

The way the Chaos Incarnate change reads to me isn't as an overall nerf. If you have 50% mastery as Destro you'll have the 25% extra spell damage and another up to 25% as an RNG roll. To me that says you'll benefit from 70% of the RNG portion (~17.5%) which totals out to a guaranteed 42.5 of your 50 mastery (or 85% as opposed to the 75% figure you came up with). So overall it is still batter than the randomness we have without it but I do agree it should just be returned to a full benefit. Hope that makes sense, kinda tough to explain with so many percents to keep track of.

[@slugfest513]

Every reworked class felt stronger, became more fun, received a lot of new utilities What the actual FUCK is this warlock “rework” No new utility, more bloat, class getting progressively LESS fun every build, replacing actual fun and flavorful abilities with boring passive talents Like, I don’t fucking get it Whoever is in charge of warlocks needs to be FIRED asap Replacing AOD with Decimating Bolt is a fucking war crime, that was one of the coolest things about destro “Powerful aoe stun on a frequent basis” bro we LACK m+ utility, how is that OP we have NOTHING else to bring to 5 man content Why can mages have lust, arcane intellect, dispel, best defensives in the game and also bring MASS BARRIER to a group but our stupid mini stun is OP? ffs I’ll lose my mind

[@zacharyorozco7910]

If they want to nerf percentages, lower the cooldown of dogs or make them almost as spamable as hands

[@XsogekinguX]

Every class gets new and fun changes to their class with every rework, warlocks get things taken away from them and become generally unfun. That demo change killed all my excitement for TWW

[@Zikkar]

You realize they told us from the start there were going to reduce the number of core procs we get right? You didn’t read the dev notes at all did you

[@fregge3095]

Let's make fire mage heating up have 70% chance to proc on crit, it will be fun interesting gameplay!

[@XsogekinguX]

@@Zikkar no i read the dev note and every single one they've released. just because they have said they are going to make these changes does not automatically make them good changes. they also made these core economy changes in 10.1 10.1.5 and 10.2 and everyone hated them. they are simply not listening to feedback

[@warlokholmes]

At this point do we consider just deleting demonbolt? like what is the purpose and synergy anymore cores and demonbolt? If they neuter our cores this hard they should really just scrap the entire spec and start from scratch with a new idea to build it around, which at this point would seem to be shadowbolt.

[@dragonrok9887]

Demo had a healthier Core economy in Shadowlands when we didn't play Power Siphon but still had Demonic Knowledge and Soulbound Tyrant. They could just as easily reintroduce those talents and either get rid of Power Siphon or put it on a choice node with Demonic Calling the way we had it then (since the third talent option was Doom). I'd also rather have 2 guaranteed cores every ~20 seconds rather than 2 guaranteed every ~30

[@Blaylock2]

It’s kind of scary they pushed this out . I’m just glad I haven’t spent the money on the expansion yet.

[@jethrodark2372]

RIGHT!!! And i did the same, i dont preorder anymore i wait till a day before xpack launch or after.

[@Zikkar]

You realize this is Alpha right and not final at all.

[@TheLegatoNet]

The only way I'll ever be ok with losing avatar is if decimating bolt acted as a kick

[@vasicdude9430]

Nothing wrong with being able to move all the time. We deserve a beast master like spec!

[@lostcol0ny682]

WoW devs went full on Kristy Noam on our dogs

[@charlespickering2726]

I wonder if they hit the dogs so maybe they can bring the third dog back.

[@scornfulbongo]

Okay well i guess im rerolling to shadow priest

[@TheKhrux]

Dat hair tho! On topic: blizzard's worst cook of all time

[@ArthurPessoadeSouza]

TBH it can be something good on destro. Maybe we can do a Incinerate AoE build, there's a lot of talents boosting it

[@terrydirks4441]

The least they coulda done is give us back our third dog, so we'd have a better chance of getting a core proc.

[@dirge7459]

Between all 3 spec changes Blizz are making atm, this just reinforces the belief that Blizz does in fact not know wtf to do with the Warlock class. Most of it has been stuck in BC era, still acting largely like a glass turret, only now it's being stripped of even more fun, and making the already wet noodle talents semi useless, but also part of a rotation we didn't need to add in. I have been a Warlock main since Vanilla way back in 2004. I feel like now is the time for me to hop off the Warlock train and onto another class, because Blizz is just making playing any of the 3 specs not viable and not fun to play at all. Class still acts like a turret, and that made is all the more obvious during DF, an expansion that required you to move so much more frequently than past expacs, and War Within is looking to demand even more movement from you, so that makes the turret class that is Warlock, even more unfun to play with.

[@ronteazy]

We’re so cooked 😞

[@Alithia451]

Finally a new haircut.

[@dhamongrimmwolf1220]

The three things they want to adress with destro is totally right, but what they do is so crappy it is pure madness. The damage they need to bake in somewheres else just by removing chaosbringer and Avater is massive. Removing avatar so wrong. The changes to inferno is pretty nice. But still it is a shared node what is crap.

[@dotftw1]

Decimation Bolt should be in class tree not specc - just like Grand Warlock's Design.

[@Wowcore95]

They should make each specs demon a perma pet with a talent again, like in legion

[@michaelb9683]

Uh I love avatar of destruction and little infernal popping down was my fav thing in tree thematically . Decimating bolt is trash . Who the hell loves only a 3 min infernal lol

[@floodsye]

Every other class/spec tree rework: Major overhauls of abilities, game changing new builds, focus on a mix of new/old thematic features to make a MORE FUN spec (I'm not saying they are always successful, just that this is the general goal of the reworks) Warlock reworks: Every single attempt made to cut corners and shed away EVEN MORE of the core spec themes and abilities. Why waste your development time making new abilities or reworking a spec into something more modern and exciting, when you can just add MORE DMG % AMPS !!??! (Seriously, I'm just gonna play Shadow Priest for WoW Remix. S4's giving me time to try out other classes and I've specifically focusing on the ones that have been recently reworked and they feel great...cause they did the opposite of what these Destro changes are. Exciting, fun, powerful gameplay that matters.)

[@chris88co]

Well, excited for Aff to be the new meta Lock build in TWW

[@ethanamazing]

Hi Kalamazi

[@stoogeman7033]

I believe your comments on Chaos Incarnate are wrong. Using the chart you linked, you always gain 8% damage, the new talent will always roll 70% of the EXTRA 8% (5.6%). On average without the talent you are hitting 12% harder with CB/RoF, with the talent it goes up to 13.6%. Its not amazing, but its definitely not a dps loss

[@MalacathTheWarlock]

Hey Just to have a conversation about this, when we initially saw this change we assumed they could have implemented it 1 out of 3 ways. Method A: Raise the min floor from 50%(the 8%) to 70% and allow it reach up to 100% - averaging at 85%. Method B: Just like current CI, but instead of an 100% effect modifier, an 70% effect (who makes it a dps loss as regular Mastery averages at 75% of its max value) this one would also match tooltip description. Method C: Your Method. Upon testing on logs we quickly discarded A because the variance within hit didn't match the variance of Destro Mastery, but only the regular hit variance. Then it became a question of B and C, but from the logs we noticed that the average hits of Chaos Bolts between TWW CI and not having CI was the same. both 11.3k, the difference being with CI you would be doing 11.2k up to 11.4k (due to regular hit variance) and non CI CB hitting between 10.5k and 12k more or less. If CI worked on Method C, we would be seeing a Higher Average Hit something around 11.6k. But you could still be right as those log tests were of only 5 minutes, in the near future we plan to do a much longer target dummy test of at least a few hours without CI and a few hours with CI.

[@stoogeman7033]

@@MalacathTheWarlock Hey thanks for doing some actual math on this. I would have loved to but i don't have alpha access. I look forward to the longer test results because as seems evident from your analysis, the difference in average damage would be easier to see on a longer fight iteration. I still firmly believe that Method C is the most likely. As far as Method B goes, maybe its just me, but it doesnt seem logical to consider the flat mastery bonus that you are guaranteed when calculating 'Maximum benefit from Mastery: Chaotic Energies'. I would say that without CI talented, you average 50% of your 'maximum mastery value', (not 75%, which it would be if including the base amount) and my assumption is that this is how the devs interpret it. Guess we will find out in time. Look forward to hearing back from you when you have the data so that we can get to the bottom of it.

[@imKrisbyy]

Good thing i've got my hunter and DK to fall back on..

[@dmsephiroth]

The changes rly sound not good. Poor destus :(( We need a mage content creator like you Kala. There are some people who make fire-stuff but rarely someone with your energy+positivity for frost :)

[@s1os2s3]

I wouldnt be surprised if we will have a horrible first patch in TWW maybe the entire expansion at this point. At best being forced into playing Aff.

[@Arsenesational]

For the love of god blizzard please implement zero of these changes. Who the hell came up with any of this?

[@FSDraconis]

I remember when Demonology was fun.

[@WatsonLuis]

Wow this is bad, during the demo combat you got a Demonic Core every 15 to 20s (not counting power siphon), in one instance it took 30s to get a core.

[@ryanpower1291]

I persinally prefer big meaty chaos bolts. So copium by removing the purple lad and we get less shard generation they will have to make the chaos bolts stronger. But ill admit i wiah they kept the puple lad because it is cool even if they nerfed it and made it not a capstone. Same thing with rain of fire is that i hope it because the shard gen is down we dont have this need the massive pulls so we can ramp

[@lucasmiller3997]

Am I hearing this right??? No cores from dogs?? Wtf r they fr?

[@williamgraham5924]

They should just leave destro exactly as it is. I love this version of destro. It is literally relaxing for me to play. Even in high keys.

[@anormalguytrading2052]

destro would actually be SSSSSSSSSS OMEGA with that shard gen 2 shard RoF LMAO!

[@zylle1993]

if the Hero talents "carry" us , isnt that kind oif the purpose though ? i get we need some tuning and its Alpha, but... idk man, i think it can work out , we dont want to get flooded too , lets see where it goes. destro changes kinda suck though

[@chrizeus2275]

If (and obviously the are) removing Avatar i'll quit warlock or even WoW with that. It rounded up my favourite class and made it perfect. Was rly looking forward for war within since they finally putting so much love in this game again and listen to people. Just so unnecessary. Same with other talents they removed just to bring them back years later

[@taftvalue]

Nice haircut

[@delete1708666prime]

avatar gone, cata not baseline, rain of chaos still not viable... I'd rather have dead talents than those flaws still present... guess I'll reroll aswell

[@Stormfire-ce2xf]

I'd prefer they removed the chance for cores completely from the dogs over having a 35 % chance, I hate RNG in my rotation. Demo feels amazing to play right now, and they are ruining it for what?

[@tftg458]

i think they are going the exact opposite way of what they should do. first of all, before f'ing our entire spec (destro) they might want to actialy give us a hero spec that does feel like destro instead of "you are now a worse kind of demo or aff lock.