The War Within's Player Numbers Are In, And They're Odd.

[@BellularGaming]

Use code BELLULARWARCRAFT at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan: incogni.com/bellularwarcraft. Sponsored by Incogni.

[@jchinckley]

I think one reason that people are not showing up is obvious: PoE2 just beat the living crap out of Blizzard and their D4 rep didn't take it well. Not only that, but the delve mechanic? That's something they took from PoE as it was a season mechanic a couple years ago while I was still playing PoE. Could they not have at least named it something else?

[@Boomken76]

problem with use achievements to track is alts DO NOT TRIGGER achievements anymore, ex my self Ive pissed off on delves & most TWW content, just been alt farming the anniversary quests & every quest that 100% rewards boxes of gear for every class as dps, no time for TWW stuff other then the disk daily and if there is a "do this 5man" for a box quest

[@icarusgeo]

"Logged in during 20th anniversary" achievement, would be the one I'd take to measure active accounts atm.

[@Rogzjel]

I think this achievement pop up even for trial accounts. Also I didn't bought TWW and just used my gold for game time to check event and I got this, so using this for tracking active players is not reliable.

[@darksky7507]

Nah I stopped after

[@plummet3860]

No because that would include bots

[@nerdrooted]

It pops for alts, so might not be the most accurate or quantifiable measure.

[@bierdeckelHeinz]

Duplicates can pop as a UI feature without actually "registering" as a valid occurrence. Since achievements are account wide I doubt if those duplicates counted?

[@kubi0461]

Short answer is that in modern WoW I often find it difficult to see where the carrot is, how to get to it, and have some idea of how long it will take. I log in, do things, and don't really have a feeling of how much I've accomplished, progressed, or even how much rewards I earned. I hate the crests system as well as the current way upgrades work. I do though like being able to change items into tier, that's been a great addition.. though I still have no clue where I'm getting those tokens from and when. Delves are great but, as currently designed, get very old very quickly. There's no depth to them and nothing changes from tier to tier except health pools and damage numbers. Wow's missing an endgame zone with no scaling, one that is deadly to even walk into at initial level cap ilvl. Then even various casual types could get a feeling of accomplishment from gear progression for a while due to being able to discover, explorer, and complete stuff in that zone as they improve their gear. In short, I want to play WoW but ultimately find it feels empty and soulless in actual experience in game.. closer to mindless button mashing in a mobile game than an mmorpg world. It's lost too many core RPG aspects when WoW was already RPG-lite in 2004. It's left WoW with all of the grinds and tedious aspects of an mmorpg but without the depth and flavor that makes them rewarding.

[@asdfqwerty-u9n]

wow under activision never learned to threat players as people that evolve in life and the game - Its a reason not to buy any blizzard game and get the more service you get from "private servers, "The profit force in blizzard (shareholders )are huge one this one"

[@sct77]

I don't know, it just seems like the ones that Blizzard is "retaining" were loyal players that weren't going to quit no matter what.

[@SlimeySludge]

that's the ting isnt it. there'll always be a core player base who made wow their literal identity outside of their work. what wow fails to do is capture anyone new or convince distanced veterans. I heard that wow is losing veteran players faster than gaining new players, but that doesn't matter. Whales will fund the game, just as the 90 dollar mount says.

[@Shredow2]

@@SlimeySludgethose veterans might hate retail but they come back for classic.

[@SlimeySludge]

@@Shredow2 thing is about classic is that it spikes every vanilla or expansion realease then it dies down a lot, and exponentially with every expansion afterwards, especially after WOTLK. classic life runtime is like a dps cooldown, its good revenuie at a spike burst phase lmao

[@Shredow2]

@@SlimeySludge Yeah, and all they have to do is keep doing fresh every few years and they'll get that boost of veterans coming back. Not really sure how what you're saying changes what I'm saying.

[@hysteresis4222]

​@@SlimeySludgeTBC veteran who hasn't been captivated since WOD ended here. I'm back and think this is one of the best expansions to date. The only thing I think is missing is a bigger player base for PVP, finding arenas much slower to queue for.

[@jct-jx5st]

one point missed when talking about Sarkareth and Fyrakk is both of those bosses dropped legendaries

[@Myth-u1o]

There’s also us players who’ve gotten older and don’t even bother with mythic plus anymore. We just do casual content hero we’d like some gear from that too. We’ve been playing for 15+ years.

[@RictuSlayer]

lol I just think M+ is kinda lame. still never done a +10 ever since legion, running the same dungeons over and over just isn't for me

[@vvohvaelez9277]

isnt that basically what delves was made for? Can easily get a 616 vault from not too much effort

[@matimusmaximus]

Too bad the open world isn't part of the game any more

[@fizzylu]

It's funny, because I consider myself an "older player" and the main reason I don't have an interest in playing WoW anymore is because I'm tired of the endgame just being about gear.

[@biostar3697]

@@matimusmaximus The open world is still part of the game, but the real problem is, its not challenging and dangerous anymore. Its just a map, a fkn playground where you can fly with speed of light on your mount. Thats what I love about classic. The classic world is challenging, dangerous, mysterious...

[@ShintarsVideos]

The fact that having Khaz Algar Diplomat apparently makes me more of a "1%-er" than someone who has a high M+ rating or is clearing heroic raids is hilarious to me.

[@borga6566]

It's always been like this too, which is hilarious. People really underestimate how rare some of the "easy" things to do in the game actually are. Hitting renown 25 with all of them may not be hard, but it requires some commitment and dedication.

[@izicadet9819]

People have been spamming dungeons and raid and battlegrounds since the beginning and they never paid attention to quests. Humans are the problem

[@DreadedX]

I can't believe that 2.6% number. It's crazy to me!

[@seanlitel7779]

The only "planning" I'm doing for mythic siege of boralus is that I'm planning on sitting out.

[@zpokie123]

Shy? Its one of the easiest dungeons

[@evilplatypus665]

It is a pog dungeon. It wasn’t even easy in bfa.

[@Henagata]

I have been playing a lot of random unranked BGs and haven't done the main campaign, any delves, world quests, raids or dungeons. I am unaccountable.

[@TheNamesNobody]

Thats the majority of people i know playing. I have no idea why he thinks its another way or is surprised people dont have quest achievements. Thats always been the minority.

[@Valvad0ss]

There are 1000 of you if that lol

[@nickjordan7945]

Healing in TWW dungeons is painful. It's not fun at all. Agro is all over the place, damage out paces healing forcing you to use global cooldowns--meaning, there's no flow you can ease into and instead you're stressed far too often from start to finish. I've never hated healing more than I do right now.

[@rolandparnaso4612]

You also need to take into account players that ❤ leveling alts. It’s the most fun I have had ever.

[@litebkt]

I enjoy leveling alts more than just about anything else. 😊

[@Ghust19]

Classic, whenever I level a class of some race I find a one I want to play more in that particular time and I level new one. Hard to count how many mages I’ve leveled just to level new one next patch 😂

[@VDHmain]

The M+ numbers are expected to be lower because many people who were only doing keys up to 10 got pushed out of the M+ ladder. Many, if not most of them, stopped engaging with M+ completely.

[@FAMIB]

This.

[@htowndood]

I have never done a mythic dungeon in retail. I only tried them during Remix because I wasn't gonna get bullied out of the group.

[@VDHmain]

@@htowndood Panda remix was a complete joke though. Barely the same game. M+ is fine, don't listen to doomers. I've literally never seen any bullying in 450 keys this season. Most of the people screaming toxicity are the toxic people themselves.

[@jdp2571]

I'm one of em. Not re subbing. Doubt I'll be back.

[@borga6566]

@@VDHmain Agreed. In my experiences in plenty of other seasons as well, toxicity in M+ exists but I don't think its nearly as common as people make it out to be. I think what happens more is that, as you become more experienced, you may become a little frustrated with other people's inexperience. But hey, that's why its really important to be very patient with pugs and if you don't have the patience with rando's then just play with friends.

[@fyrestorme]

I think your math might be off. 1,158,952 * 0.05 = 57947.6 57947.6 * 90$ = $5,215,284.00 Not $104,350,680. At least that is how you set up the math in your description of things. Perhaps you were leaving something out?

[@dmaidens1]

I immediately thought that math was odd and worked out the same, 5215284 dollars.

[@teapea8184]

Yeah I was like wait wut, how did roughly 60k people paying $90 turn into 100M.

[@derisgaming9773]

Yeah it would've only been $104mil if it was $90 spent by ALL the accounts logged. I.e. 1,158,952 x $90 = $104,350,680

[@melissakampers]

I noticed for the last two weeks that fewer guildies log in to do content. Most people have done the raids, got the gear and did the 20th anniversary stuff and only a few log in to do the puzzles for the Fel Cycle.

[@carlstahl3000]

M+ sucks for the time/effort you invest to the reward given. I get 50 gold but have over 1k in repairs so now I have to do world quests, farm rocks or buy tokens. Laaaaame.

[@mspally9542]

I’d suggest that another reason m+ is down because anyone needing to gear up fast for raids chose delves instead. Also, a lot of the runs would be for upgrade tokens so people are choosing the shorter ones because m+ isn’t necessarily their goal anyway

[@toffe5273]

There's one thing to note about m+ - right now it literally is harder because you removed lvl 1-10 from the pool and moved it down to base mythic. I would also assume this means theres more people who stay out of keys because they dont have the capacity for keys. this both means that completion rate would go down cause the easier keys arent part of the pool+ the overall number of keys run would also go down.

[@JeanBaptisteIrvin]

Delves made me not have to do the other content to get the gear and ilvl that I wanted, so I didn’t and that is okay with me.😊

[@chantalwiebe534]

Yeah, like, not having to "time" a delve has removed so much stress for me. I can go as slow as I want, solo or with a group, and we don't have to worry about anything other than not dying.

[@Eckythump]

I'm still subscribed to Wow, but I've checked out of Retail in favour of the new, fresh classic realms. BUT, when I was playing Retail, I avoided M+ like the plague. I did my delves to +8. I did some low level keys and did the raid, until I left my guild. Upon leaving that guild, I just found it hard to join another. Most guilds were already further ahead and I wasn't geared. I didn't want to do higher M+ as a pug to gear up for a Heroic guild so I just dropped back to casual play. Did my delves and logged off for the week.

[@MrJeremydb91]

Shocker…people prefer simple to sweaty…m+ sucks now, I went from doing multiple keys every week in DF to basically 0 in TWW. Also, the gear gap is too big now.

[@Ghust19]

The gearing between tracks is abysmal, something that kept me off progressing m+ as I don’t do mythic raiding as of now, so at some point I’ll be at too much of disadvantage compared to people that just have better gear. Not even mentioning how much vault matters now for m+ compared to df

[@MrJeremydb91]

@ yeah. It’s real fun doing keys with my mythic raider friends and getting dwarfed in dps by people I usually smoke

[@decwow]

​@@MrJeremydb91 C'mon, man.... You know what's coming after that comment... 😁 *_Get good._*

[@MrJeremydb91]

@@decwow hard to overcome 15+ ilevels

[@nickthetoycollector3360]

I barely do delves. I never do Mythic runs. I only run LFG Raids. I mostly just do World Quests, and older Raids to try to acquire transmog items or mounts. That is it for me.

[@shardlake]

Some crazy stats! Surprised the 25 renown rate is low, I play, or thought I played semi-casual I have all at 25 - not touched M+ or Raids since my Guild basically did not return in sufficient numbers for TWW. Benn smashing the Delves and all the Secret finding stuff, still enjoying it so far.

[@Craznar]

I could never work out how to get Council reputation, I've struggled to get it to 20 and the others got to 25 without any effort weeks before.

[@TSLlol]

Thats exactly because of what you wrote. Nearly all content that is not M+ or raiding gives rep, if you're a player like me who's only interested in the challenging stuff, then your renown levels are still very realistically around 15

[@havardgjerseth2202]

I get the feeling the most vocal critics complain about lack of content...am I the only one who feel there is too much content? I have been doing dungeons, lots of delves, way too many world quests and I suddenly feel like I have hit a wall. The game suddenly feel like a chore and I can't make myself log on. The anniversary content landing while I was already busy with weekly quests and delves, might be part of my problem. Maybe it is because I feel things like getting the weekly chests feels "mandatory" and therefore starts to feel like a chore I have to do.

[@rogervanbaren]

you’re not alone! i get ptsd when i open my world map or log on on wednesdays and see the ocean of Q pop ups. 😂

[@Valvad0ss]

The renown shit is grindy

[@Ghust19]

I mean that’s a good problem, just gotta stop caring about doing everythjng and doing it slowly with what you want at the moment. WQs for example are not mandatory at all and I just do them when i want to do some open world, the reputations level itself when doing weeklies anyway

[@h347h]

Hot take this expansion isn't fun. People were just leveling characters so they could do the 20th anniversary event. (Me)

[@MadMattMaximus]

Garbo take really. Why would you need to level characters for the 20th anniversary event? Weird.

[@WhiteWolfx22]

@@MadMattMaximus the free 20%xp that helps for alt leveling

[@bakedpt502]

Any PvP stats?

[@johnnyboyxxxo]

Yes, lots play for pvp only

[@EnhancedNightmare]

I can tell what I do. I'm returning player and I just unlocked TWW to do the anniversary quests. Right now I'm working through dragonflight, legion, cata etc. Mostly I'm unlocking cool stuff like druid forms, heritage armour, new races. I'm going slow, since I enjoy this stuff so far. I had a lot of trouble with scaling, some technical issues with GPU, I had to work a week to have my interface organised lol.

[@EnhancedNightmare]

I might do M+ after I find solution to my GPU breaking on bosses....

[@SKQS88]

There are players such as myself who got into WoW for the world. I have little to no interest in raiding.

[@Incenpilz]

Oh and about the raids: I haven't played a single raid this season (apart from a few LFRs). Simply because I somehow don't feel like that's where the fun lies. I actually find all the little things u can do a lot more fun in TWW.

[@JulianaBlewett]

And you know they could have offered it for $30 or $25 and still made a ton of money but they had to be effing greedy about it.

[@ray_donovan_v4]

Possibly.. they may have sold more mounts at a lower price point.. 90 bucks is a bit outrageous.. audacious.. ludicrous.. preposterous! Says the mage that didn't hit level cap. What the hell did blizzard do to the crafting system? It's enough to make a tailor rage.

[@noestusallowed5203]

I stopped playing again WoW because queueing for m+ (which is the only content I like to do) is just miserable. I've done it as a DPS, Healer AND as a Tank and the pug experience is just awful. Getting to a group in itself is already a pain, no matter the role (as a healer tends to be easier as they cannot be as picky), but the higher the key the worst it gets. I get it, you're looking for a specific combination or at least some minimum IO, however I still get declined even tho my IO is higher than the PL's over and over. Not only that, even if we get to a party, the higher the key the more likely it will get bricked. Some people with 2k+ IO just can't do the most basic mechanics and its absoluterly scary how many DPS and tanks don't know what their abilities actually do. The IO system is in itself failing us and, tbh, I can't think of a better way... I tried tirelessly to find a guild or even a closed group to run keys with but most of the time I need to pug things so most of my time is spent looking for groups and then bricking keys because someone just can't do their part. Yea, pugging is hell.

[@jdp2571]

Not to mention what they did to tanks. I only play tank anymore. Bdk has been horrible.

[@megyskermike]

IO was a terrible mistake, and I've thought that from the start. There's entirely too much bias for those more active. Unless it's dramatically changed to account for personal skill/proper ability usage, it's entirely pointless and results in a frequently negative gaming experience. Left after BFA, saw how bad the experience could be for solo players and never want to go back. Not saying I have an alternative, but it's too risky to waste your time and life doing things you hate.

[@deminionzz]

i only do lfr/lfd and single player content, also not part of any guild on my 20+ lvl 80s and youll never find meeee...

[@lurk_e]

i think the game would benefit more if it were easier for people to get closer to 639 ivl. i feel like alot of people get lost in the 590-610 range and kind of give up and will cancel their sub and just wait for catch up in the new season

[@EpicCrust]

So everyone just gets gear and there’s no need to do any content or push anything higher because it’s all on baby mode!

[@Sly_404]

You can get to full heroic gear only doing ST content (delves). What else you want to get for relatively low difficulty content?

[@Dadbot]

That wouldnt separate the good players from the bad players at all. And you wind up with a 5 man group geared for hard content but can’t complete it because they lack the skill. Instead, players are forced to push to be better. Rewarding them with better gear when they are. Aka, get good kid.

[@spunkin49]

this is something ive been thinking about for a few years now.... the max ilvl should be attainable by everyone, but the TIER BONUS shouldnt be the same. my idea is that the content you do should give you a bonus specific to that content, kind of how pvp gear increases your ilvl when you are in a pvp scenario, making it (generally) the best gear to have for pvp. imo, since ilvl is the main source of progression post leveling, it definitely should be possible for anyone to cap it, but again, the actual bonuses should be content specific. no it does not make sense for a world quester to be as strong as a mythic raider, or even a +20 m+'r, but why should the ilvl itself be the thing that sets them apart? why not something more significant like a tier bonus? what do you guys think?

[@jamesgeorge4687]

​@@Dadbotwhich is what you have now and why keys are so toxic. These people thing gear means skill and the fuck everyone's keys. Delves have made m plus that much more toxic

[@jhandlediihggdfhg]

Why would I clear anything past Delve 8 if there's no better loot? Why do they exist?

[@Digzitify]

Just gotta say... reputation-farm has got to be the most tedious thing to do, since it's not at all rewarding. Why would anyone get out of their way to farm it? I never have, I never will. ONLY did back in TBC when I needed the shoulder enchant from Aldor.

[@mohammedghanem9228]

Mythic is what made me stop playing to be honest, I love the game and I did almost all the content I wanted to do and I was planning on continuing playing doing random stuff pvp etc and just crafting, but m+ was so shit that I just paused my sub.

[@denniswolf8685]

The success rate numbers are highly flawed tho. 1-10 keys are one of the most runner keys and the easiest so ofc DF s3 will have a higher success % as it literally has a lower skill floor becouse there are easier dungeons that a lot of people do.

[@bootnscoot5265]

I believe we're overthinking it a bit, the simplest solution is almost always the best. "I'm tired boss" It's a wave of fatigue, that fatigue may take many shapes, but it is fatigue all the same.

[@zenenzarcon]

Feels like you're ignoring the tons of players who don't really play much with others, or do a whole lot of group content. I know it's counter intuitive, but there are many who play MMO's for the sheer amount of content, not for the multiplayer aspect.

[@bartmano1]

I didn’t play dragon flight , haven’t done anything but level to max since wotlk original, friend convinced me to come back to retail and I have loved every second of it, makes me think people were just being overly critical of passed expansions, cause tww is great IMO

[@Bunstonious]

The fact is, as a casual player all of my friends have given up M+ because it sucks (and we got to KSM all DF). They absolutely ruined the fun of mythic+ for us and we're struggling to find a reason to play.

[@jdp2571]

Yep

[@MadMattMaximus]

Join our premade pvp guild we own BG's and the horde. Good times.

[@Gen-XJohnny]

Just skip to 2:35 for the ad

[@Fillos]

I guess the higher difficulty of M+, affects the raid completion rate, since the higher Weekly Vault gear from M+, helps progression tremendously.

[@TheLostBear78]

Got the 25 rep on all factions, and have beaten a tier 10 Delv. Beaten ? Zekvir. But not ?? Zekvir, and since my guild died early during Dragonflight, I haven't run a single M+ in over a couple of years. Wish I could, but the thought of pugging M+ is not appealing. My hunter is hard stuck at 619 IL now I guess. Will take forever to get any more upgrade tokens.

[@LC-lw4vy]

This is interesting. The comments too. I’ve always thought that I played different from the norm. I don’t do dungeons or raids. I might do more delves but I only have so much time and one thing I am focusing on is raising my alts I care about - yeah some I have just because so I don’t do much with them. I putter around in the open world. Funny thing is that even though I thought I was “alone” in my play, there is always quite a few people doing the same thing. Oh well, currently, I am getting what I want from the game - entertainment - and that is what matters to me. And there is so so so much to do!

[@shadowrider7072]

I don't like timed mythics... never have, never will. I prefer old school dungeons like in vanilla, cata, and wrath. The other problem is one Blizzard can't fix, and it's the changing demigraphics and behaviors of different generations of people. I'm an old millenial, borderline GenX, and the game was just more social back then. Now everyone's brain is rotten from tick tock and overstimulation, and nobody talks unless it's to insult each other. I'll go back to my single player games and non-video gaming hobbies.

[@ForOne814]

The game was more social back then, because back then, people without friends played MMOs and games in general. But now, people play games with their friends - they don't need to socialize with randoms.

[@generaltim494]

Delves need more love and remove gear cap for it's vault

[@hundy8978]

They need to be a fully implemented and improved system. They are good and would hate to see them die this expansion.

[@ultralance7470]

@@hundy8978agreed delves are the future of solo content and they really should not let them go behind they’re fun and give decent rewards like rep too

[@generaltim494]

@@ultralance7470 they give rep alrdy but only once a week for each faction

[@DoktorTechnometer]

Two interesting statements there (well, to me): "a lot of new people should be there" - should they? Why? What is a lot out of the player cohort? WoW clearly has many different types of personas - Mythic+ play is just one of them. A lot of people who do dungeons, or delves, or both? And "doing dungeons, with your friends, and having a good time" as a core, that is a persona - when I could be bothered to do Mythic+ in Legion it was because IRL mates asked me to heal - in your case that will be your guildmates. My mates left and I went back to playing other ways (professions and gathering is an illness). But a PUG is not made up of friends, even one random in a guild/friend group can send it sideways in a heartbeat. At end of the day the personas that generate the least noise and hassle, for the most positive UX and/or engagement, and the least amount of development and testing (erm...did i just type that base on last patch?) effort/maintainence, are going to be core to their business - as you showed yourself 1/10 billion on a pretend dinosaur so you can post letters/AH is a bit of an investment - how many bruto-buyers were also Mythic+ at higher key players? From Blizz's viewpoint whoever generates the most revenue would probably be who they prioritise on attarcting and retaining? (not saying it is right but MS is as MS does). Or put another way: if WoW was a democracy, and each player had one vote, some content is just not going to win the popular vote anymore (if it ever actually did). By the way I do love your content but I do a lot of UX/XLA/SLA versus use case/user centric design stuff (which isn't WoW as we get what we are given and can like it or lump), full data set analysis (with the help of data scientists) and spend most of my life having to explain (to directors who should know better) should versus could against must (as usually the law), and personal inherently being subjective and opinion based against evidence/(full) data driven being objective and fact - so I guess it may be brace for impact as far as certain types of content goes. WoW has changed a lot in two decades, adapted (by design) and evolved with shifting cohorts (remember the Cata Heroics trauma for those that came in at Wrath and didn't know what a BRD bar rep run was and had no idea what a long dungeon run was, or what an Interrupt or cc was?) - probably why it is still here and being played because it changed. If lots of folks aren't doing Mythic+ (for the reasons you stated, like the new difficulty wall from Delves, to the cycle of new style versus old style dungeons in the mix etc.) then they aren't going to do them because they aren't enjoying it or playing that way, and it looks like currently there may be way more of that persona type than those that do like it. May not seem fair to those that do like Mythic+ but life rarely is fair (whatever fair is, again ususally a subjective, personal opinion/experience), then again just because something is doesn't mean it should be. Right, that is my internet engagement done for this year.

[@nonyabiziness]

I think a big reason M+ dropped drastically is the reward is not worth it. If you were to make a new character starting today and you are someone who can do all vaults at 10 you still wouldnt catch up in gear for almost a month and a half if not more and with the amount of fluctuations of nerf/buff that blizzard has done it feels really bad.

[@dirusj4006]

For raid I think you forgot about the buff. A slowly stacking buff to damage and healing is effectively a nerf to the entire raid.

[@niixten2349]

2:51 hey, that’s me 😅

[@TeeteringPeaks]

Why make a game when you can make a $90 mount

[@MadMattMaximus]

Imagine supporting a game you like and wanting them to continue so you buy their products.... wild.

[@TeeteringPeaks]

@MadMattMaximus your not supporting the game, your supporting blizzard to cash shop more and more of the game. I'm just waiting for the $200 summoning stone mount.

[@Babblesays]

I'm only interested in world content. I'm not a fan of the story lines of DF and TWW, as I prefer the old alliance vs horde concept/story. Just me, though.

[@Zaroth66]

Well, a factor that's hard to quantify with a raid progression is that each season it gets easier even if the raid is the same difficulty because everyone has way higher secondary stats overall instead of just main stat.

[@joem4102]

The BRD Heroic raid was so badly tuned my guild tried it once and never returned.

[@fleromor]

I think the delvers dirigible numbers come from it being behind a few quests that people might skip over if they don't know that it gives the mount

[@MidWitPride]

Yeah, quite a few people drop everything once they hit max level and start doing their favorite activity.

[@Craznar]

I just have no interest in it at all, it is ugly and didn't bother getting it.

[@Daniel----]

for this money they should improve this game and not ruin it

[@KurnassTwoThousand]

1,158,952*(.05)*90 is only $5,215,284 not $104,350,680. Who did your math lol?

[@sXsKidd]

Try again my man.

[@Matt-lc8qt]

​@@sXsKiddHe's right, though?

[@Buildonsound]

@@sXsKidd you need to go back to school cause he right ya donkey

[@jessehartless4562]

@@sXsKidd kidd cant do math

[@Krolot0101]

you know its late i'm stoned..but 1m x 90€ aint 5m

[@williamst.germain3394]

The problem with M+ is the attitude of the players that run them on a PUG level. They are NOT good people really. The amount of times I can say I had a good run in TWW is basically zero.

[@marcvsaurelius7570]

Its a weird cycle of, delves giving good enough gear that people don't need to even do anything below a 4 for runed, but keys are also harder, so people get frustrated and don't learn the dungeons on easier difficulties, which means they get stuck between wasting time getting rewards they don't need to learn, or they waste time failing keys because they can't handle the higher levels yet, so they just don't play. So I think its just kind of a perfect storm of frustration. I think the difficulty is good and people will settle into it and get better at the game, I think the best thing to do is just stop depleting keys.

[@alcidestavares9565]

i have a friend that have 2000 M+, and 1700+ pvp, but he till today dont even do the campain on the khaz algar map

[@hectornieves6353]

I'm in this club as well, but I'll get to it eventually!

[@Raz.94]

Im in the same boat. Cleared normal Nerubar a few times, 2300+ in M+ almost 1700 in pvp. Almost fully heroic geared. Havent finished campaign lol.

[@nataschajordan6053]

the question still is, if anyone actually "bought" it - it could just be gold trading with wow-token trades way before this thing arrived - so its not "put this, buy it =profit" - i guess people were just sitting on a lot of gold andor wow tokens

[@elstupido4575]

Haven't watched the vid yet but i just wanna throw this out there. Fire anyone who contributed to the m+ dungeon pool this season. You couldve asked 100,000 people if they wanted siege of boralus or necrotic wake back and atleast 99% of them would've said hell nah

[@aidanc9396]

I remember hating Siege of Boralus when it was current, and was dreading it this time around. But I've really come around to it, and out of all of the keys this season, apart from Mists, its probably the key I'm most confident doing.

[@AsprosOfAzeroth]

Don't forget that Fyrakk and Sarkareth had mounts and legendaries. Ansurek only has one of those,

[@mogalixir]

The issue is they removed unneeded key levels in Dragonflight only to make it harder and therefore make new players wish those levels existed again to be able to learn in PuGs.

[@Guitarman5705]

Yeah i absolutely think there should be queueable m0 for that reason entirely. that mid point between m+ and heroic doesnt really exist right now.

[@Junebug89]

@@Guitarman5705 I mean m0 does exist, the issue I think is that people don't have much of an incentive to do it or the lower m+ levels. Letting people queue for it might help but it's nibbling around the edge I think.

[@Gungrave123]

By "player numbers" he means unsubstantiated and unverifiable speculations, and by "odd" he means "bad".

[@Laerrus999]

Delves have been a bright point for me this expansion. I am getting to play in instanced content that is roughly equivalent to the challenge of TBC heroic dungeons, just without all the toxicity of the modern M+ scene.

[@MrHuntervad]

Problem in short: People getting gear fast, mythic not giving high enough ilvl in contrast to difficulty, difficulty in a way is to steep in mythic +, but not to mention other mythic + problems arise from these.

[@aoprism2834]

I'm lazy, when I couldn't find a M+ group that would take me after a few occasions trying, I quit. There's other competitive games I can play with matchmaking that WoW can't give, even if they're a different genre. Maybe they should try matchmaking with an MMR system, but I'm guessing queues would be too long.

[@fran117]

Its funny how the player base sentiment a decade ago is the opposite of what we have now. We have "WoW became too ez" for the longest time, and now omg wow is too hard

[@SticksAandstonesBozo]

Wow... Those numbers told me exactly what I thought already. Its mostly hardcore players who really only play WoW that are still playing these days. To have nearly 50% have done keystones and full raid clears ? Insane numbers.

[@izicadet9819]

Delves really divided players, and the ones that are still on mythic+ are the unemployed ones who have the most toxic behaviors

[@KVAR42]

Love that new delve system as well as Gathering/crafting!

[@henrythegreatamerican8136]

So glad I'm done with this game. But it's still fun seeing the numbers behind everything. Too bad the game itself is no longer fun.

[@grillune375]

I might be coping but I think with big changes to guilds and how they are now much less restricting, I would wager that there are less guilds with more players. That would mean the numbers for raid might be slightly deceiving if I understand it correctly and the data is derived from one guild either did or didnt kill 1st/last boss. If that isnt the case than the numbers being lower or matching DF Vault is quite worrying for retail numbers.

[@Rallarberg]

In our guild, it seems people are burnt out much sooner than the previous few expansions, even SL..

[@mishiara5499]

Ppl like hard games, but not in a game that is depending on you progressing/achieving things to reach higher levels of the content - especially when its not the fault if you but someone else.

[@FishboyAbzu]

Yeah even casual gamers can enjoy harder content when they can do it at their own pace and not feel forced to do it.

[@VainEldritch]

And this is why M+ as it is is a terrible idea.

[@Turbotef]

This is me and why I only stick to Delves, but seeing that Horrific Visions are coming back excites me greatly!

[@BattleF08]

I'm just doing profession leveling, actual leveling, and Delve 8ths (and some 11s) right now. (And roleplay). I plan to dive into Mythics once profession leveling outgrows the need to farm for Acuity. Should cut down the time I spend on it significantly, once I've bought all the things.

[@nighteed02]

Delve groups for T8 used to be easier to get into. Now it seems to be a pain in the butt. Maybe most folks can just solo them at this point.

[@Zardeon]

"People do often like hard, punishing games, those are played all the time." Yeah, but those games are actually fair and rewarding, while m+ actively punishes you for failing and wastes your time. If you try a really hard Hades challenge and fail you just die and go again, in m+ you're punished for dying and probably won't get the reward you were there for.

[@Tainted0ne1138]

You would figure the clear rate for Nerub-ar would be higher given that the bi-weekly buff exists. However, Queen is definitely a harder fight than both Sark and Fyrak heroic since the fail point is p1 and not p3.

[@Junebug89]

I feel like the fail point being in p1 makes it easier, it means your wipes take a lot less time. The thing about the biweekly buff is it does require that you are actually clearing bosses to stack up the buff, as opposed to say the ICC buff which was just passive.

[@ChichiNaka]

This channel makes the same three videos on repeat, what’s next? “HOW TO GEAR UP FAST ON DECEMBER 5TH 2024” or “This Changes Everything We Know About WoW…”

[@fran117]

Theres really not many video ideas for wow that are intesresting rn

[@ChichiNaka]

@@fran117 brother I described the last ten years of this channel Theres never just footage/streams of dude playing the game, just talking about ideas of playing the game much like their flavor of the month foray into FFXIV

[@MadMattMaximus]

EU people always surprise everyone with new ways to be cringe.

[@Lionwoman]

*Me at one-digit renowns* Ok...

[@danielbeaupre1786]

I'm a heroic raider and I have barely touched M+. Delves are WAY easier and only reliant on me, not a group.

[@DarbitheKnight]

I feel like I’d be more into the game if professions weren’t so complex. The fact I can only craft one good item that I had to use all my knowledge points on feels more like a punishment

[@robinesque]

Maybe one day I'll get back into M+ but it is so brutally unfun it's insane. That it has been this way for half a decade is even more insane.

[@radikmcphilimy9453]

gotta take in account that bis lists now are mostly raid equip, while df was a lot of dungeon items

[@Ata5ll]

25% and people already complain they have nothing to do...

[@teej143]

I petition to replace Ion. I’m sure he’s a good guy, but he’s been at the helm of the game for too long and so many things that made WoW “bad” happened during his watch, if not directly signed off by him.

[@rigdig68]

I have done raids, done mythic + but it was because there wasn't enough to keep me busy. I don't do mythic + because its not casual , instead its some good people with a lot of bad apples that make doing them a pain and raiding is ok but to get stuck to a steady schedule is hard for me, so timewalking , delves and world crap is enough to keep me busy and get me some gear

[@mattp5200]

I personally don't find grinding the same dungeons and weekly quests fun. The fun thing about World of Warcraft is in its title. The World. I hate how quickly we level. You said in a recent video that heirlooms need reworking. I disagree. Levelling should be slower.

[@DocMadfox]

All I know is, I want to come back, but I can't afford to. I can't afford an expansion + monthly fee. I miss when they gave you a free month with the Expac.

[@blinnxthecollector]

Blizz needs to fix dungeon queue or event queue for dps...this is a sick wait time

[@ElloaWendy]

I think this video reflect well my experience. I'm raiding twice a week with my guild in a semi-casual/chill approach. We have cleared 7/8 bosses in heroic. I perform pretty well in raid as Holy Priest. But Mythic+, I'm much more cautious. I only completed a +6 key in time, and I feel at ease arround +4. I remember in BFA I was doing +10 keys pretty early in the expansion. I do not know if I am rusted as a player or if M+ are harder in general.

[@Raz.94]

I didnt play Dragonflight (DF) much, I mostly did mythic progression in Legion and Shadowlands, but it is certainly harder in the way that its tuned differently. A mythic 8 now is similar to a mythic +15 or so before. A 10 now would be similar to what a 20 was before. This seems about right, as from what I have seen/heard about end game DF, a mythic 20 or higher was the goal for end game gear progression. If you can do mythic 10s now you get mythic level gear from your vault, which is the end for progression at this point. I am enjoying mythic plus this expansion, consistently clearing 8's and working on getting all hero gear to start pushing to clearing 10s.

[@TroggyPK]

Worst season of m+ for a long time, for every single good change they have introduced absolutely abhorrent changes. Going from a 9 to a 10 for someone who is used to running weekly 20's and 10's with friends has now become an absolute chore. Some dungeons are absolutely unfinishable unless you have players who understand every class and how to build a comp. Then when you ask for help or blizz to start tweaking the dungeons around the majority of the player base and not just the title chasers. You get met with the reply "10's are easy" to which it is for them because they run 15 keys a week with the same ability players which makes it a thousand times easier to learn every mechanic in every dungeon. If you're just starting to learn (which you now how to start fresh every single season now with the dungeon rotation) Its fucking impossible, you either fail at the 1st or second pull and the team leaves, fail at the 1st boss because 10's are now fortified AND tyrannical to which the team leaves. Or finish the key but way out of time. Then you try to run it with guild mates but because you aren't up to their standard they never want to run a key with you again. Its time to make the dungeons fucking easier. They scale infinitely so let the pushers push as much as they want. But let the people who play for gear and play to learn but are forced to pug because they are just below the level where getting into keys is a piece of piss actually able to finish keys.

[@leonardceres9061]

Listen, it’s my hopes that with the cash boost from the bruteOsaur mount that maybe they could roll some of that into the actual game with regards to development. I understand a game/business has to maintain a certain profit margin, but if they can show that the game can earn this kind of money then maybe it will greenlight some other projects

[@jdp2571]

Loooooooool

[@leonardceres9061]

@@jdp2571 that's why it's a hope. Not a wish.

[@benwallychow]

There is no right or wrong, only compromise. IMO Delve gear should give bonus iLvl (to only delves) based on follower level and they should go up to like 20. A nice near infinite, non-mandatory grind for hardcore delvers while keeping base ilvl about where it is now at 616. Also, M+ key level should be the primary source of difficulty, not arbitrary un-fun affixes like 7 and 12. I have been loving M+ this season, but these seem like easy compromises.

[@TaliesinMyrddin]

I'd love for the delve gear to have the buff work in outdoor content too, but at the very least it'd be nice for non-M+/raid players to be able to get a catch-up system where being in a delve simulates up to max level mythic gear if you put enough work in, yeah 616 outside of delves, 636 inside delves once Brann is level 60 or something

[@hyrelia]

The game needs more casual evergreen content. Delves was a good addition, player housing is also the right direction, but I simply do not care about m+. It's sweaty, it's toxic, I don't care about making my rating go up. I got enough gear to get AOTC and now I'm playing classic until next patch because I've seen all the content I wanna see. I have no interest in running repeated toxic dungeons, it's not fun. What would be fun to me is customizing my house in Midnight. If they keep making strides for casual players, roleplayers and RPG mechanics then I'll have more reason to play for longer than just completing the raid. M+ and PvP are of no interest to me.

[@ThornySnailPictures]

Damn if 544k active TWW accounts worldwide is true then that's really bad

[@BirdmanG07]

I did a lot less keys during S1 because of delves. Why screw around with everything that comes with a key when you can get the same vault reward from doing a delve, much easier and shorter content. I much prefer keys to delves but the reward structure pushed me more into delves to start.

[@Leetshifter]

I still don't understand why Blizz won't take the class system from FFXIV

[@CoreysPoliticalRiskAnalysis]

Some people obviously cheated their way to renown 25. You don't get much renown each week...