The White Board convinces him about Trans Women...oh and also God

[@GeteMachine]

People who still pretend Jordan Peterson is a victim of anything.

[@supermagnificence7503]

Of his own stupidity maybe

[@kokojo4872]

A victim of talking too much and thinking too many people care, probably because of people like him

[@UpsideDown853]

Yes, but have you considered the impact of female chaos on a grander scale of an eternal conflict inflicted against the masculine order upon generations within the violent, rebellious context of post-modern-Neo-Marxism-communist-feminist-ideas taught at westernized woke universities? No you haven’t. Only smart people like me could possibly understand. - a true and sincere intellectual Peterson-fan

[@UpsideDown853]

Yes, but have you considered the impact of female chaos on a grander scale of an eternal conflict inflicted against the masculine order upon generations within the violent, rebellious context of post-modern-Neo-Marxism-communist-feminist-ideas taught at westernized woke universities? No you haven’t. Only smart people like me could possibly understand. - a true and sincere intellectual Peterson-fan

[@paulhammond6978]

@@supermagnificence7503 I mean, that. But also, how is it that so many people are saying like its a fact that "they made him give his PhD back because he misgendered someone". That doesn't happen. The only thing I heard about was that a professional organisation wanted to bar him because he was constantly breaking their rules about bringing the profession into disrepute with everything he does as a public figure.

[@moonblaze2713]

I feel like the "It depends on who you ask" line was really telling. He knew you were asking him. He just doesn't want to own up to his beliefs.

[@christophergibson4834]

4:24 unironically a "jordan peterson almost lost his job!" Guy? I thought they all died out.

[@christophergibson4834]

Oh God, he's brain dead too. It all makes sense.

[@AUTI5T1X]

This moron openly stated that their pronouns were he/him, only to then defend Jordan Peterson for refusing to use "forced speech pronouns". The cognitive dissonance is insane.

[@LightGlyphRasengan]

Literally typed in live chat that the caller didn't know what bill c16 was and how hes never actually seen someone get fired for misgendering someone maliciously

[@skyeguy7914]

Oh I remember this guy from the live. His arguments about gender really emphasize a problem I have with anti-trans types in general. They feel the need to overcomplicate this otherwise actually very simple subject. Often as a deflection from actually addressing that they don’t understand it.

[@lulolie]

They overcomplicate the simple shit and oversimplify the complicated shit

[@skyeguy7914]

@ well, that’s also true.

[@AdeptPaladin]

"What is the necessary thing that makes women, exclude trans women?" "Well thats a good question, yeah, that we need to answer." So why don't you answer it? This is the position you hold, and we want you to justify that.

[@ibringit987]

I wish these people wouldn't lie. Callers rejection of transpeople and trans identity has nothing tod o with science and logic. He argued himself into a logical circle and argued a position that was anti-science. It's because Caller is religious. That's it. Good Grief.

[@p00tis]

Transwomen are women in virtue of what? What is the truth maker of that claim?

[@ibringit987]

@p00tis There isn't a necessary condition that excludes them from the category. Gender is a social category, an identity that is dependent on your self-identification in that category. There isn't much else to it that I can think of other than those two off the top of my head.

[@ibringit987]

@p00tis There isn't a necessary condition that excludes them from the category. Gender is a social category, an identity that is dependent on your self-identification in that category. There isn't much else to it that I can think of other than those two off the top of my head.

[@ibringit987]

If you're asking for an objective marker, there isn't one. If you think you have one, you can provide it. But reasons for me are 1. There isn't a necessary condition that excludes transwomen from the category 2. Gender is a social category dependant entirely on your self identification within that category. This is the case for both transmen and transwomen.

[@ibringit987]

@@p00tis KZbin keeps not posting my comments. But in short, if you're asking for an objective marker, there isn't one. If you think you have one, make the argument, and I'll respond. Without a necessary condition that excludes transwomen from the category but also doesn't likewise exclude women you would consider 'biological women', there's no reason to not argue transwomen aren't women.

[@AlliePaints]

Lmao I was confused on how a debate about communism turned to trans and god debate 🤣😂🤣

[@Spectrik]

Lmaooo same. I was so excited for the wild ride that call was gonna take

[@Miwles]

Well the title uses he as a pronoun to refer to caller and the first caller used they/them pronouns, so

[@thoughtsengineer]

It’s different callers. The “they/them” callers about communism got dropped early in the call/video as soon as Jovan started talking lol. So Jovan moved on the next caller

[@AlliePaints]

@ honestly if they don’t make some big stink about being anti pronouns I tend to just zone out that section. Hadn’t even noticed

[@SnepBlepVR]

im not lol

[@crystinajjmelvin8237]

I swear these callers listen to people like Matt Walsh, thinking they can emulate them. They don't have an independent thought of their own. Keep up the amazing work Jovan

[@Caldera01]

Biggest problem with trying to emulate Matt Walsh is that you have to consciously and knowingly lie, which most people can't do due to the little integrity and spine they have.

[@RJLK0518]

​@Caldera01 I think the worst part of imitating Matt Walsh is you'd have to be a pdf file and advocate for "fertility" 🤢

[@Caldera01]

@ Touche.

[@b.bryndunleavy8934]

A good argument can be easily understood and replicated; a bad argument falls apart the second someone makes any inquiry to the premises… people who are repeating talking points don’t understand their own position, it’s just vibes to them.

[@limlamthetimtam__1435]

It’s so funny hearing transphobes talking about trans women’s testosterone levels like I haven’t been on E for 6 months and my testosterone levels are at 0.7 (the very bottom of healthy cis women’s levels)

[@volk4523]

After only 9 months in October of 2020 my free Test was at a whopping

[@limlamthetimtam__1435]

@ like they come after us like our testosterone levels don’t go down the toilet the second we start hrt

[@volk4523]

@@limlamthetimtam__1435 Fr, and they blatantly ignore the FACT that after 2 years of HRT Trans women start suffering Osteoporosis if we don't start Calcium maxxing. Our muscle mass is nothing in comparison to before, and frankly I don't think personally I could ever get to my male strength ever again even if I detransitioned and took T shots. But, yeah if they ever throw up a stink about "muh advantage" remind them that the International Olympic Committee underwent a multiyear study on Trans women, and the results were determined that Trans women actually have an advantage in only one area. 6% faster reflexes in muscle twitch response time. Everywhere else we are literally LESS ADVANTAGED than cis women who have stronger base muscle mass in their lower bodies than we do. So we really have fundamentally NO advantages over cis women.

[@TanyaAppalavich]

Wouldn’t any man get the same results regardless of his gender? From the hormones? In human history were women ever identified by men by their levels of t?

[@Ssstone3.14]

How can a male be a woman?

[@acidicsubstance]

"He sent his one and only son". Yes, he sent himself to earth (coz jesus is god) to sacrifice himself to himself to act as a loophole in a system of rules he made. Makes sense.

[@akira1086]

Bro was LOST Also i cracked up when this dude started saying he was more of a buddhist and was into taoism, like, forgive me, but i don't believe him, bro sounds like the average white dude dipping his toes into spirituality and collecting fragments of spiritual and religious beliefs like they're pokemon cards. Why was he defending Christianity again, was he even a christian?

[@ookamiblade6318]

Taoism/Buddhism tend to go by conformity, as such being trans is easier to accept than being gay, as being trans is conforming to a societal position where as being gay is not. That being said there’s not a religious contention with being gay so the adversity there has more to do with family role expectations and if you are fulfilling your ‘duty to family’. Which is why being gay is mostly put in the context of a youthful exploration or an after divorce/marriage/children thing. It’s not exactly a better civil rights fight, just a different one.

[@grannysh1fter612]

Bro was def a Christian who looked at beliefs like Taoism and Buddhism to try and ground his Christian faith. Which just sits weird with me, I don't know why and couldn't explain it

[@paulhammond6978]

I was confused when the first caller gave their pronouns. a) I thought the title was misgendering them and b) I thought someone who uses they/them has a problem with "trans women are women" is that weird or interesting? Then the call dropped and I thought, no it wasn't them who didn't get trans people.

[@Caldera01]

Unfortunately transphobic trans people do exist. Either because they want to gatekeep, or they're grifting. Or they just honestly believe some right wing misinformation that they haven't checked up on. Not every trans person is an expert in the area afterall.

[@qtjuniberry]

literally same

[@MrDXW1213]

same, and looking at the comments i was like why is everyone misgendering them lmao

[@MsDarkLightening]

I love the whiteboard, please keep it up forever 😂 Harder for folks to say “I didn’t say that!” if it’s written right in front of them. Edit to add: Caller folded quicker than a fitted sheet with the trans men/women topic. Very impressive.

[@Polcat94]

I mean he was running so bad it was hard to watch 😂

[@Ricklyplinth]

Using jordie pee as a credible source in 2025 is a massive red flag

[@qtjuniberry]

How so?

[@FERAL_MECHANICAL_NOMATIC]

​@@qtjuniberry If your credible source is a mentally ill, ex-benzo addict and professional crank whose only source of income comes from yapping about insane, unhinged alt-right nonsense while wearing one of a dozen 15K custom-tailored three-piece suits, that's a major red flag, my dude.

[@grannysh1fter612]

​@qtjuniberry he became known and was discredited because of bunk science around lobsters. And ever since then he's basically became a right wing grifter.

[@drg8687]

LOL, you have got to love how Theism rots the brain! God created a world free of evil. But 5 minutes later 2 naked people who didn't know anything undid it all.

[@p00tis]

Can you provide a definition of evil that is mind independent?

[@drg8687]

@@p00tis concepts only exist in the mind. Evil is a concept. You aren't going to explore the universe and pick up 2 scoops of evil.

[@drg8687]

@@p00tis your question is illogical

[@drg8687]

@@p00tis that question is illogical

[@drg8687]

that question is illogical

[@QuickNETTech]

13:21 I just can't, I had to pause to take a moment to breathe, how do you do this Jovan? They're like NPCs going right back down the same dialogue tree with not a single hint of self awareness and you're unphased. I woulda hit em with a "Really? You just failed that one, wanna pick another?" after a moment to recover... 20:38 oh no it got so much worse wtf. This guy...

[@SparklyCoconut-le3fu]

Where are the people getting fired over pronouns? Most work places could care less about harassment. We saw how it all went down at Tesla.

[@stefanlog1]

The whiteboard shows the true colors of people

[@AzafTazarden]

The second you bring up an argument he can't answer he ties himself into a knot and desperately tries to pivot to something else to avoid answering the question, that's so hilarious.

[@kimberlycarter369]

The caller also doesn’t seem to realize that the fruit was of, “knowledge and wisdom”. So both Adam and Eve had know knowledge of consequences for their actions, and had no wisdom to know it was a bad choice, because they would have needed to eat the fruit to gain that information. God is evil.

[@zenbear9952]

God the whole Adam and Eve thing is so wrong if you think critically for even a minute. Even if you grant that this event occured Adam and Evil didn't know right from wrong before eating the fruit. The fruit was the knowledge of good and evil. They literally couldn't commit an evil act because they were innocent and ignorant like no better than animals. So you have to think that god intended for them to do it and intended to punish them for it. If you tested anyone today they probably wouldn't eat the fruit because they know better now BECAUSE Adam and Eve ate the fruit

[@p00tis]

They were insturcted not do thing X. They did thing X. Consequences ensued.

[@DeadXxPunk2]

Exactly. They were like babies. And not only.that; God told the first lie. Something along the lines of "if you eat this fruit you will die within a day" The serpent said otherwise. "If you eat it you wont die."

[@DeadXxPunk2]

​@@p00tisthey have no knowledge of good or evil. If you tell a baby not to eat the Pills you leave out in the open within reach, then leave and come back to see them doing it... Its not the baby's fault. It's yours. The baby has no knowledge of good or evil. Only difference is that Adam and Eve were full grown yet lacked this knowledge still. So how would they know that disobeying is WRONG if they dont have the knowledge of Evil

[@zenbear9952]

@@p00tis But they wouldn't have known doing thing x was wrong or that disobeying was wrong. Thats my point. We know in hoindsight because Adam and Eve ate from the treey why it was wrong but they couldn't have because they had no concept of wrong

[@p00tis]

@@DeadXxPunk2 > God told the first lie. The ground of all being and Good cannot lie. This is false at face. Can you predict the theist response to your claim that they didn't die when God said they would? Lets exercise that brain a bit and see how familiar your are with these topics. I need to gauge your level here.

[@mm-rj3vo]

Hes clearly equivocating sex and gender regarding the word "woman"

[@largemanproductions4823]

The second person just refuses to actually talk about anything they actually believe, holy moly, just speaking to speak.

[@katthemischievous2167]

The whiteboard was way too good here. It became so much easier to walk him through his logic in this debate cuz of being able to do the step by step

[@ericfigueroa8047]

10:25 Jovan: what are the necessary conditions in order to fit into the category of women? Caller: yeah that’s a question that needs to be answered

[@Belinor6]

God is not evil, God is an evil character

[@lulolie]

I would still call evil characters evil

[@Belinor6]

@lulolie that's my point, he backed out of the argument by saying that the story didn't actually happen, I'd say that doesn't make God less evil, but rather just an evil character

[@DoingMyBestDudePerson]

21:13 hey. Is he defending the existence of SLAVERY?!

[@AUTI5T1X]

Odd that somebody wanted to debate about capitalism/communism, but the second they're corrected, they ditch. What an insecure toolbag 😂

[@bladehoon]

it felt like the call dropped, they seemed ready to debate

[@vdonut6526]

I love the idea of ​​the white board to illustrate and educate people as if it were a school

[@memedealermikey]

is it just me or do these people sound exactly the same sometimes like wow

[@volk4523]

Because they get the same stupid shit they say from each other, or the same demagogues.

[@Jiji_1464]

First guy was probably allergic to whiteboards, poor soul :(

[@diogamest3545]

Jovan was gonna be professin, too! Sad day for all :(

[@Miwles]

probably not a guy, but yeah

[@TheDahaka1]

24:00 "Oh, God created a world without evil at the start" Except he made an evil creature to convince the people to commit an evil act, and he put there the tree, giving the possibility to do an evil act. So what does that mean, dear caller? That god created evil, let humans get corrupted, and created a way for them to do evil! Let's not even talk about the fact that most interpretations identify the apple as "the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil", so saying to someone that cannot know the difference between good and evil that they did a bad thing is completely illogical. The bible, especially Genesis, is just a collection of badly written fairy tales.

[@monadproxy_]

Dude has never completed a thought before…

[@TheDahaka1]

My fovourite part about Job's story is that his wife and children are just considered his properties, something to destroy to test Job's faith. Perfectly in line with the rest of the bible, but an excellent example of how little the whole book thinks of women and children.

[@b.bryndunleavy8934]

Just stumbled upon your channel, absolute legend. I could never remain this calm debating with a transphobe. You’re out here doing god’s work 🫡

[@rhymerlegend2717]

😂

[@firetube8288]

​@@rhymerlegend2717 🫵😂

[@kimberlycarter369]

Once you realize that god is omniscient and he knows all the wars, crimes, etc that would happen... and he went ahead and created Adam anyway... that’s evil.

[@Nyxpphire]

YOOOOO LETS GO!

[@Galbrei]

Jovan with a whiteboard is too powerful!

[@Brie_Struction72]

Is it just me, or does everybody who wants to debate that trans men/women are men/women always sound super nervous?

[@triskelion4101]

They saw the whiteboard and dipped

[@JadeHarleyCoffeeMug]

you do not, under any circumstances, gotta hand it to american slavery

[@ArrowOnionbelly]

Hilarious the way the caller kept walking everything back until he had no point to make. Subscribed

[@VexRavenhardt]

The whiteboard prevails!

[@combatwomb1]

Whiteboard is probably one of the best ideas you've had Jovan 😂

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

20:11 the real suffering is friends we made along the way I swear persuasive writing in American schools has taught people that rhetoric matters more than actual reasoning. These people cannot answer a straightforward question. Do you think God is evil -> vuvuzela

[@HunterWolf14]

Man, this caller sure likes to talk

[@nologooby9858]

Why is he yapping so much?

[@ganduss]

"Testosterone is a known steroid." ...anabolic steriods... are synthetic testosterone? like... literally?

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

And typically trans women on hrt have lower levels than cis women

[@kimberlycarter369]

25:03 free will doesn’t mean anything if an omniscient being already knows what you will do before you do it. The very idea that he knew the outcome before ever making them, and he was cool with them failing... tells you something is wrong with god.

[@deathsyth27]

Uggh my skin crawled when he brought up stuff happening up here in Canada guy has no idea what he's talking about.

[@KByrd]

W. L. Or. Whatever. Long ago, theakkiqueen4655 lived in the comment section in harmony. Then, everything changed when the algorithm attacked. Only theakkiqueen4655, master of all four words, could stop them, but when the world needed them most, they vanished...

[@LikeaSsur]

Doesn’t the book of Job challenge the question of “why does God let bad things happen?” It’s like the core theme of the book.

[@BetterThanEmber]

Note: Job gets to keep his wife. Apparently she doesn't count as a good thing in his life according to God. But we'll keep hearing how marriage has to have divine approval.

[@xaldynnemo47]

Every time he's backed into a corner he just suddenly pretends to be an idiot and says "Oh sorry lol I thought we were talking about sex", even though he explained he understood the difference between sex and gender near the start of the call.

[@dracocrusher]

Wait a second, Satan just wins in Job then! Because Satan knows nothing would change and Satan knows GOD KNOWS nothing would change. So he's literally just like "Fuck it, I'm just going to have fun torturing this guy completely uninterrupted and then you can feel superior or whatever when he comes out of it." Like, if that's his whole thing, he just wants to harm people and do evil acts, then he just got a free pass to do it there! Satan totally wins in that one, lol!

[@tinap8227]

The stories people create to continue believing in a fantasty cult is amazing.

[@corvusclones]

How can people have a good history lesson when he admitted the story being discussed was fiction?

[@guest-ub2vq]

I think that jovan could be a bit better at hammering in the point that: if you believe that intersex people are exceptions to your necessary then you allow exceptions. So at that point, trans people could also be exceptions. Its that they are choosing to exclude trans people. make them have to explain, not why trans women aren’t women, but why they shouldn’t be. Feels like it’d be easier to reach them that way, especially since their arguments aren’t founded in logic but feeling from the start. But even then, i really like jovan and i’ve been watching him for like 1-2 years now he makes me feel like we are not alone in this, that there is still hope for us. Its also strangely affirming to see someone so well argue for my existence and articulate what im feeling but cant put into words.

[@TheDahaka1]

21:55 That's a blatant lie, there are so many worse ways to go than what is described for Jesus XD And even then, the "sacrifice" he made was 3 days in hell. Wooptie friggin Doo, by that logic anyone that can't believe in a god so evil that he would actually create hell is suffering infinitely more than Jesus ever did, since they're in hell for eternity. Jesus had a bad weekend. After a medium amount of suffering before his "end".

[@DubiousStory]

I love when Jovan says something and the caller, *desperate!* to get away from having to explain his beliefs raises his voice to try to make the conversation about poor cis women losing trophies and how Jovan doesn't care about them! So pathetic.

[@douchopotamus3755]

the more i hear about jehovah the more he reminds me of an abusive parent

[@acehilm5001]

hey so why does the title not use the preferred pronouns of the caller? they specifically said they/them

[@acehilm5001]

nvm i thought the first caller was the whole video my bad

[@Kj_002]

did he just say slavery was good for bringing us to the society we have today 💀

[@nlsnmrgn_theblukid]

Funny how caller jumps from trans topic L to religious L

[@Polcat94]

Im only like 10 mins in and so confused by this callers intentions. Like hes against trans people but then kinda says gender is a social construct...what? Wait does he believe in the Christian God or not? He's literally all over the place preaching. I wish jovan would stop preaching when it happens like this.

[@mm-rj3vo]

Gonna buy me a white board

[@Bubsz50]

Aye jovahn, Job wife was still alive through his suffering.. she just urged Job to curse God and was chastised for it (job 2:9) just for the future debates

[@crystinajjmelvin8237]

Evil is a religious construct

[@zachlawrence9875]

What was that BABBLING 😂

[@Wade.Stikmann]

I am LOVING the white board 😆

[@MoreThanAMia]

A good history lesson? 😂

[@HECKYEAHPickleballAthletics]

What would you say to anyone who says the necessary condition to be a woman is to be a cis woman?

[@rhymerlegend2717]

Or even: to be a female adult who is human

[@firetube8288]

Easy: why?

[@firetube8288]

​@@rhymerlegend2717 define "female"

[@1god705]

41st!

[@p00tis]

Transwomen are women in virtue of what exactly?

[@zivkovicable]

Because gender is a social construct.

[@jamieoshea1681]

Your mother said soo

[@PullaWheel]

Knowing as much as neuroscience knows on the trans brain, transwomen are women by virtue of literally having their body mismatched to their brain/themselves from BIRTH okay that's an oversimplification but it's in that ballpark. Or y'know if you're some people, God decided that, and you'll look through that little book to try and interpret words in it as saying "no" or "yes" depending on if you feel uncomfortable about some experience others have you don't understand.

[@Roseyla]

@PullaWheellllll And so when a person gets a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, transitions and lives their best life as their true authentic self for 8 years, and realizes it was all a mistake... ?

[@Miwles]

​@PullaWheellllll 1: Trans isn't a prefix, it's an adjective. The term is "trans women", not "transwomen." 2: There is no such thing as a "mismatched brain and body" or a "woman's brain". Yes, trans women typically have similar brains to cis women, but we are just talking about grey matter and such - although you did say that was an oversimplification, so maybe that's not what you meant. The reason that trans women are women is because woman is a social category by nature of gender being a social construct, and therefore the only thing that defines if you're a woman or not is if your own personal schema of what a woman is aligns with your internal sense of self. It's not like having a certain brain structure is a necessary condition to be a woman. On the part about cherry picking from the bible, you're absolutely right. If we really took everything from the bible as the word of god that needed to be followed, some parts of it try to justify slavery and incest, so people just interpret it in whatever ways benefit them the most.

[@Ssstone3.14]

What exactly makes "trans""women" women?

[@sandwichqueen]

What makes art, art?

[@rhymerlegend2717]

Nothing

[@rhymerlegend2717]

@@sandwichqueendodging the question because you don’t have an answer. Typical

[@Ssstone3.14]

@@sandwichqueen I'd agure that art does not exist. It's just lines on a page that some monkeys give meaning to. Being able to change sex(or "gender") however is patently false if you consider it for more than a few seconds

[@Ssstone3.14]

@@rhymerlegend2717 correct 👍

[@SkullQueen_Chloe]

So… I am a trans woman, and hearing that guy deflect and go on and on about “I respect this and that even if I don’t agree” and then the rhetoric about the sports it’s just… gah! It pissed me off cus im sitting here like “DUDE! Just say you don’t think we are women because you feel icky at the thought of trans women being women because you just want women to be breeders for you. Like I’d respect you if you owned your bigotry with your whole ass chest.” Transphobes are sooooo freaking exhausting.