The Widest FoV Pancake Lenses I've ever Seen!

240 degrees of FoV but in a small form factor? Someone has done it with these stitched pancake optics! And it looked quite good!
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www.hypervision.ai/
#VR #prototype #fov
0:00 Intro to Hypervision
2:08 VR140 Gen 2
4:41 VR240 Gen 2
9:22 HMD Companies already Interested

[@mckirkus]

Tried to give a speech to a few people in VR, and the lack of FOV meant I had to scan back and forth constantly, with my entire head, it was super awkward. FOV is important for lots of reasons.

[@coffeebreakhero3743]

this is solvable with software I think, no?

[@dec1lent448]

@@coffeebreakhero3743 The problem is that increasing the fov in software will make it look distorted and out of sync with your brain, causing at best confusion and at worst a bit of nausea.

[@chippdbanjo]

this is why I love my pimax.

[@adr2t]

140 is all we are asking for for the most part. 240 is just super amazing really. Its crazy we're still on 100 fov as it is with some still getting less.

[@CharlesVanNoland]

I just want to have peripheral vision. It doesn't have to be full rez on the sides, just let me have some light shining into my eyes from the scene around me so I can have some kind of sense of what's happening. We don't need full rez outside of where we can even point our eyes - which is about 90 degrees. Everything outside of 90 deg can be way lower rez. They added a new extension to OpenGL a few years ago called "multiview" where a single draw call can result in rendering to multiple framebuffer targets, and in the vertex/pixel shaders the framebuffer being rendered to can be incorporated into how the rendering occurs - allowing a single draw call to render two separate views simultaneously. We need an extension to that which allows us to render a super low rez view that can be stretched around the high rez

[@snowwsquire]

@@CharlesVanNoland You aren't looking directly at things all the time though, your eyes can move without your head moving. And foveated rendering like the psvr2 would be much better than a static blurry perihpery

[@CupOfNoodlesMusic]

WAAAAAAT?! Yes plz i want to have the virtual wrapped around me entirely

[@Key_Capz_]

With 3d polarization, so even when your eyes move the aspect of your view changes.

[@thomoebth8184]

We now know what the next step is for Bigscreen lol

[@carroux4050]

Please with inside out tracking. Even though base stations are better, for 95% of the content it doesn't matter anymore...

[@silversobe]

Better FOV has been one of my most desired improvements for VR. This is awesome.

[@BakersTuts]

Can’t wait for a readily available headset that has everything!

[@CaptainPanick]

For no more than $200

[@vroreo5019]

yes please cure cancer while you’re at it

[@kazioo2]

Image quality vs FoV will be a huge trade off to choose in this decade.

[@handlemonium]

@@kazioo2 I'll be happy with 140°. Valve Deckard/Index 2 and Lynx R2 will probably do it for me. Maybe whatever Google has cooking up for AR/MR glasses too alongside since they acquired Focals couple years ago.

[@stormvr1070]

@@CaptainPanick Let's be realistic.

[@SargonDragon]

Thanks for mentioning about how the VR industry has been ignoring FOV. I've been very frustrated that not only is the trend in newer VR headsets to not attempt to increase FOV at all, but they're actually getting even narrower! I think the industry is going in that direction not because customers don't want wide FOV, but because most of them don't know that they want it and don't understand it. Most people will have never experienced it and so there's a significant degree to which they don't miss what they've never tried. Add to this the mess that is manufacturer claims about FOV measurements which are consistently flat out lies. And the FOV side of the VR equation is just clouded in smoke. Whereas the clarity side is... well.. clear and easy for consumers to understand. But once you've tried wide FOV, I think most people find it hard to go back. It's an enormous competitive advantage. It's what has kept Pimax in business despite the company making otherwise poor products. They're the only game in town for wide FOV for consumers. If a reputable VR company started making wide FOV VR headsets, I believe they would immediately dominate narrow FOV headsets anywhere near the same price point.

[@kazioo2]

Oculus DK1 had worse image quality than HMDs from the 90s, but it was revolutionary in FOV and it sold more units than any HMD in history before it. Abandoning microdisplays is the whole reason VR industry was reborn, so it's super ironic seeing this hype around them. To be fair, this time with pancakes it's different and they can finally be usable for VR, but the trade-offs are still serious.

[@bullshitdepartment]

I think people just prioritize clarify over fov. No point in having all that fov if it's a blurry mess

[@adr2t]

@@kazioo2 Thing is , its still not going to be used in lower end products. A single LCD has such a low cost, Meta for example wont be switching to microdisplays any time soon on their Quest lines. So yes, you are right, but also, the move forward is to have more than one sku that we all have been saying any of these companies should be aiming at. One headset for the guy that talks non stop about their headset + company | another one for little Jimmy that got to play with their uncle's unit and wants to try VR before they then turn into the higher end again later down the road.

[@carroux4050]

​@bullshitdepartment7638 why not have both? Today it should be possible to have a wide fov plus a high resolution.

[@-Elaphe-]

@@bullshitdepartment I could also say that there's no point in having a crisp and perfect image with narrow FOV (I already enjoy that in my PC monitor).

[@deddrz2549]

if a second bigscreen beyond headset happens, this would be the perfect upgrade

[@lau6438]

FOV is such a limiting factor in VR atm. It is such an integral part to our vision, and without it, it feels claustrophobic.

[@TiredNull]

I'm glad someone in the VR industry is focused on a wide FOV. Perhaps in the near future these will be the new norm. Makes me hopeful.

[@TonyDrecaps]

Pretty cool! I hope more companies expand on wide FOV. I'd like to see these with aspheric lenses

[@arthur999r]

You can't get edge to edge clarity with single aspheric lens, just because laws of optics

[@rod4309]

i feel like we need more events that celebrate/encourage the software side of vr. It's hard to feel excited about all this new hardware when there's very little to use it for.

[@adr2t]

Software follows hardware in a lot of cases. If the hardware isnt there - then software will either have a harder time getting there or simply don't see the value to create some thing for it. Software can be paid off to make a few titles to get people in... but you can't do that really with hardware as we have real limits in how hardware works. Lets be real, if you could get your hands on your prefect hardware set - you would jump ship from any company to get that headset esp if that headset (hardware wise) can start replacing the needs of other items such as your monitor, console, pc, etc.

[@artursychov]

I am super excited to support Hypervision in their journey and to use their optics for future Somnium, Lynx, Vrgineers VR headsets.

[@SINfromPL]

The future is now old man, still no pancake

[@bryndaldwyre3099]

This stitching of the lenses looks much like what sim racers do when they have a 3 monitor setup by the looks of it. It will increase the immersiveness quite a bit, especially when they use special strips of plastic along the bezels to help "fuse" the separate images into one.

[@artursychov]

The stitching is done in such way that you do not feel it unless you are deliberately looking for it! It is quite amazing

[@danfarrik]

Yes! Larger FOV is what I am waiting for, still. I’m perfectly okay with the resolution of the Quest 2, but FOV needs to improve for it to be an option for productivity and full immersion.

[@simracingjunky9679]

Thanks for another great video. 140 degree Quest pro quality type lens with that 4k x 4k moled display you showed us would be a dream.

[@arthur999r]

Yes, with 4K display 2.56" the HO140 lens provides 43ppd

[@-Elaphe-]

I'm very excited about this. As a simracing fan, I know how important FOV is for immersion (much more, in my opinion, than resolution or display quality).

[@skinnyraf]

I'm somehow more hyped for what's coming in VR than I was when I saw The Blu on Vive for the first time, because now, I know what I want.

[@blizado3675]

Very interesting, a good FoV with a very nice edge to edge clarity is exactly what I want. So this lenses sound really very good.

[@jesterlampoon-t1j]

Yeah, fov is really the last piece that's missing. I'm happy to see some progress here.

[@taja1976]

Resolution is important but I've always felt immersion is relative to FoV. This is exciting progress.

[@jamesoloughlin]

You rock Brad. So much interesting stuff.

[@Alexcolin12-kw5gn]

Just awesome, I can't wait to see this lenses on headset 😍 game changer

[@jklappenbach]

Thanks for your updates! Every time your videos appear in my feed, my view of the world is usually changed for the better.

[@SpaceDust_97]

Yes!! I am totally dying for high FOV and higher resolution, but not willing to go for Pimax

[@blkcyborg92]

Why not?

[@Mr.Cheeseburger24]

@@blkcyborg92Are you serious? Even with the launch of the Crystal they fkd up numerous things like people getting copper cables or plastic lenses instead of glass lenses. Why should I give a company my money if I have to play lottery to get what I was promised and ordered???

[@FieryMeltman]

​​@@blkcyborg92Broken promises, poor quality control, specification lies, big and heavy form factor, etc.

[@CalebK64]

This is so exciting!! I was expecting big sacrifices on image clarity, but I was pleasantly surprised! I would absolutely buy a headset with these lenses if it was lighthouse tracked!!

[@Meccarox]

A wide field of view is super important for immersion

[@SnrubSource]

FOV, comfort and black levels have always been the most important thing for me in VR. My Quest 2 is way higher res than my old PSVR1 and the tracking is way better as well, but the PSVR1 felt miles better to use because dark areas were actually nice to look at and the headset was comfortable. Using the Quest 2 feels like looking through binoculars, and dark areas in Half-Life Alyx look completely gray.

[@Shlooomth]

bruh you turned it around to the camera and i involuntarily said out loud "YOo WHat tHE fUUuCcK?" Pancake lenses are so awesome.

[@liontuga155]

Thanks Brad. I can see foldable screens, like Samsung’s, being used in future hyper-wide FOV VR headsets. The question then is if they can support the necessary high pixel density VR requires and if the lens can align well enough to avoid the seams altogether.

[@zardozx1370]

many many thanks - hope we shall see it in this life .

[@zackmac5917]

Even the significantly smaller FoV version would be huge compared to existing pancake lens headsets, which is amazing. 120 hfov! So glad this technology is finally happening. VR is closing in on the dream tech we all have hoped for.

[@SmallWorldBigThings]

Exactly! This is what I am looking forward! Higher FOV!!!!!!

[@rod4309]

Because of how blurry your sight is at the edges, i feel like the side panels could be much lower ?resolution? without impacting the benefit of having them.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I agree

[@Trevokable]

But don't you need to be able to turn your eyes without turning your head?

[@CalebK64]

I kinda agree, but i also agree with what Trevokable said. He's right, in alot of cases, you'll wanna use these lenses to look side to side without turning your head. Maybe they can still be clear, and not pixelated to the point where it's noticeable.

[@laartwork]

​@@Trevokable yeah... you know like in real life ... unless you are a shifty eyed mf

[@artursychov]

It depends on application. For military you would want a bit higher resolution but for casual SocialVR use you are right.

[@name1483]

That's great, can't wait to have a more immersive vr experience

[@artifica0]

This what we’ve been waiting for

[@waedi_]

thanks bradly

[@proffmongo]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M LOSING MY MIND!!!!!!!!!!!! I was thinking about the Varjo Aero because I might just be able to afford it next month but then all this good stuff is showing it's face. My Mind Is MELTING!!!!!

[@DonJohn87_YT]

Tried out some vr with the fairly normal 105 degrees fov or close to that and honestly the lack of peripheral view pretty much kills the immersion for me, this tech is what will REALLY make it interesting

[@gogreengameon2146]

VR innovation is just AMAZING! I can't believe how good things are getting. Folded lenses looks like a real breakthrough. My only thoughts were people with small IPDs and large heads (if the design might not fit their faces properly). That might be a minority though. If Valve does folded optics in the next headset I'll die and go to VR heaven lol.

[@socks2441]

keep your dirty hands off this tech please meta. we dont want it disappearing to never be seen or heard of again.

[@chaosfire321]

Very WIDE!

[@cyphre]

I think they can solve the corner issues with a better software integration to smooth out the edges. Really cool stuff!

[@staffanstuff]

Thanks

[@vroitwyrd]

Good stuff, Mr. SadlyItsBradley.

[@Cinnabuns2009]

What sucks super hard is when Apple buys the IP out from under these companies and then say, "this is a great tech 'end point' that we'll get to in 20 years" and in the mean time they provide tiny incremental upgrades so they can make the same amount of money over and over on 20 iterations of the same hmd.

[@OMNI_INFINITY]

Thanks for posting that! I am visiting shenzhen now and would like to prototype a new HMD. Any info about DIY pancake lenses or micro-lens arrays?

[@robcarlton2341]

Can't wait for you to talk about ant reality glasses!

[@InvidiousIgnoramus]

I certainly hope this sort of lense tech would be compatible with eye prescriptions, otherwise I'm afraid it won't do much for me.

[@SpringChickensOnlyMan]

You probably can notice the line. They added more lenses on the edges of the current two so that might need some work. This could look great on your head but probably not perfect. You're probably gonna see a line

[@brianschwarm8267]

I would love for the next valve headset to have a version of both 140 and 240 FOV set ups.

[@Intelligenz_Bestie]

200° fov, 20mp resolution per eye, 200hz refresh rate, that's the goalpost to reach before the end of the decade

[@brianschwarm8267]

But it’s gonna take a beast of a computer to run headsets at 200hz. I’d rather just get FOV improvements.

[@jayes5066]

I guess that's good new for lynx, shows theyre not out of the game and will likely bring a wide fov xr into fruition. but unfortunately I'd have to wait for final product after the rough... still ongoing rollout of the lynx r1 getting to backers

[@mrburns366]

Eye tracking and foveated rendering are going to be mandatory when pushing this many pixels.

[@Crecross]

Here we go again

[@DarvonBrown]

HOLY SHIT

[@VFXShawn]

There must be a way to use curved screens and curved lenses to make a headset that looks like cyclops visor from x-men with a screen that literally wraps around your head, giving you full FOV to the limits of human vision.

[@SjaakSchulteis]

Probably one day if I buy a headset with a wide FOV I will notice what I have been missing. I already notice the difference between the Pico4 and Quest2, so much that I always prefer to use the Pico4 instead of the Quest2.

[@Dionyzos]

I often use my Pico 4 without the face gasket increasing the FOV even more with a small towel resting on my forehead so it doesn't press on my nose

[@SjaakSchulteis]

@ExpandingCircle I think the AMVR facemask is also the reason for a bigger FOV than with the original mask..

[@bigbangerz5856]

Yes, now thats what I’m talking about

[@gerardsitja]

Give me 140 all day long! That's the sweet spot. No need for 240, we will loose too much definition with such fov.

[@spatialfree]

hmm, would purpose built curved screens help with hmd optics? though i can imagine the tolerances would be difficult to reliably hit...

[@p1st0ls44]

pancake large fov and projection screen small fov will be the future. its just gonna take a while to get there. i dont consider micro led until i see one happening.

[@Projekt_Nightmare]

i want to see the beyond use this

[@David-gu8hv]

Cool

[@jjhw2941]

They could use Frore System's Airjet cooling to cool the displays.

[@pos93189]

Imagine not using a mirror in VRC being able to see out the sides, would buy!

[@servidig483]

FINALLY

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

You know, the stuff that allows for accurately rendering the FOV for both displays on each eye without distortion has been around for a while; Nvidia has its own implementation of this for, say, multi-monitor setups that are set up angled around the user, that unfortunately very few games utilize.

[@justcatsalt]

an issue I see poping up are custom glass lenses, otherwise, super cool

[@ViperVenoM13]

Didn't they try canting the front displays inward to get full eye stereo overlap ? I always find the the right eyes can't see much on the left and same goes for the left seeing right

[@waterflame321]

Can't wait for Apple or Facebook to buy out this company....

[@EvieDoesYouTube]

If a display manufacturer made a display where the pixels were organized and addressed in concentric circles then you could have hemispherical displays and FOV wouldn't be an issue any longer.

[@ivaniuk123]

I hope this gets adopted by a headset that caters to the flight sim community. A large FOV and PPD is a requirement.

[@Dubb_]

One problem I could see with these lenses is that glasses wearers would either have to wear contacts or risk scratching the lenses to the side as it would be significantly harder to make prescription filters for something like these lenses.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

This is true.

[@Dubb_]

@@SadlyItsBradley Although I was just thinking about it, would it be possible to have a dioptre in the lenses in front of your eyes and leave the lenses to the sides of the eyes the same?

[@Dubb_]

or even having a hardpoint to attach the glasses frames to so that the glasses aren't able to move and so can't scratch the sideways lenses.

[@JusFoNo]

woaw

[@jackburton5085]

I always thought that for real immersion you need a VR Headset needed in the first place: FOV and Sweetspot. Being able to move your eyes before the head, without a diving mask effect but above all without losing focus. Yet the industry has always gone to improve other (marginal) aspects first. It's time to see VR headset with +FOV and SS? I hope others go in this direction, and that they do soon!

[@MrKlawUK]

were they using lower resolution in the side panels? presumably the periphery is more for motion/noticing changes but you’re still going to move your head to pay attention/read an active position so lower res should be ok in those side panels (and easier to drive)

[@adr2t]

I mean the answer is to use DFR - then as you scan with your eyes - you get teh full res while lowering the res where you are not looking. Just as easy to drive.

[@Archangel125]

Would the large fov optics prevent eyetracking?

[@manuelbarreto7032]

Brad the VR Chad ❤😊

[@Luke-ut2ky]

I'd wait for deckard another 5 years to have this lol

[@sythys_]

I want to replace my desktop monitors with VR as soon as possible. ppi is somewhat important to me. I kind of like what simulavr is doing, but it puts me off that they don't pursue pancake lenses.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Ya I personally find comfort to be a main starting point for monitor replacement. and PPD after that. Speaking of that Limbak company that was acquired from under Lynx's nose, SimulaVR was also using a Limbak design lawl

[@TRX25EX]

It's AR that will do that, anyone tried Nreal Air with Nebula in Windows will understand, surrounding awareness is a must have for monitor replacement + these glasses reached already 120hz while have a weight that Equals quarter that of Bigscreen Beyond

[@ConservativeJuggaloPodcast]

I gotta get a new screen in my 4k TV, so I moved the ps5 to the room, sold my GameCube & ps2 so I gave away the old TV in the room, & all I have in the room is the PS5 & PSVR 1 strung up on the cieling fan. Def a Ready Player One feel to it

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

Monitor replacement will be the mainstream VR/AR adaptation. Simply as 2D is so efficient way to handle information.

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

I think this is Apple's *_real_* goal. The replacement of our primary interactions with not just Desktop displays, but TV's, Phones, Tablets, everything. The death of the 2D display on a box as the focal point & centerpiece of all this computin' stuff we do. Trying to change zeitgeists is kinda their thing. But they're going to face a trash-talking, deliberately skeptical press for a while.

[@irondennis1]

I would much rather have more fov and hz than resolution. In my experience, It's more immersive when it's fluid rather than choppy with good resolution.

[@Skrenja]

And peak brightness. According to Meta, the most important factor to VR immersion for their internal testers was peak brightness.

[@guisampaio2008]

I wonder if the stitchinf can be more gradual or something like that, surely sone A.I can calculate a smooth gradient for the lenses or something like that?

[@CupOfNoodlesMusic]

I remember, iirc, back in the oculus dk1/2 days there was a mod to put little led lights around the inside of the face gasket, which at least added peripheral color from the edge of your fov instead of just darkness at the edges. Is this still a workable mod?

[@sashabagdasarow497]

So, like white edges around the screen??

[@CupOfNoodlesMusic]

@Sasha Bagdasarow naw, it was ambient led strips that normally go around the edge of monitors, that mirror the same color as the edge of the screen. So ie, if you were in a blue room, the leds would be blue. If you pass by a yellow light on your left, the left led would show yellow. Etc.

[@sashabagdasarow497]

@@CupOfNoodlesMusic oh, cool! I wonder how well it worked for immersion though...

[@CupOfNoodlesMusic]

@Sasha Bagdasarow me too, friend. I've heard it helps a bit with getting rid of the binocular feeling, but I dunno ^^' it was a diy mod, not a full-blown product or anything, so your guess is as good as mine 😅

[@MeizanoAM]

Airjet would be great combined with this wide FOV.

[@Silverhks]

So what are the OLED panel options for this system? Im also curious how much you could shrink the panels before the optics become unusable. All the way down to 1"? With a reduction in FOV of course.

[@arthur999r]

We work on alternative pancake optics for micro OLED displays. The 1" is too small for the normal VR FoV. Starting from micro OLED of 1.3" FoV above 100deg and very compact size of VR (central thickness of 12-15mm) is achievable. Currently 1.3" micro OLED are extremally expensive.

[@Silverhks]

@@arthur999r cool, thanks for that information Edit: I knew there had to be a limit. I just had no idea what it was.

[@Green0Photon]

Stan + Brad = ?

[@aboucard93]

Peripheral vision was designed to protect us. It's an evolutionarily trait

[@htainlindwa7603]

Hi Brad

[@Sam-gf1eb]

Big FOVs won't start showing up more until the businesses decide to change how their lenses are made. They can't keep doing flat screens with one flat lens if they want a large FOV in an average size VR headset. Take the StarVR One and the Pimax 5k Super. The StarVR One has curved lenses and maybe curved screens (hard to determine the screens from videos), giving it a 210⁰ FOV. The Pimax 5k Super is pretty bulky with its flat lenses and screens, giving it a 200⁰ FOV. The Crystal is close to the same size as the StarVR One, but has a 140⁰ FOV. This could be because they didn't need a full vision FOV for this, or there wasn't enough space for bigger lenses. To get better vision, the lenses have to either be how they are shown in the video by combining 2 flat lenses together with 2 flat screens per side, or better, curved lenses with curved screens Using curved lenses would also require companies to start making their own custom lenses, being more expensive than making flat ones. TLDR: Companies need to stop laying on what they have and start designing their headsets in new ways.

[@PsychonautFPV]

Cool stuff ! thanks Brad(ley).

[@lawnmowergirl]

Hey Bradley, with your voice. A great look would be buzzed hair and light scruff. Likewise, you can go in the opposite direction.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

buzzed sounds scary to my BRAIN

[@ItsMeLuke69]

Hi Brad, I'm Luke.

[@BringTheRain]

I need this FOV... so badly - what do we do to make this happen? Who do we need to wave our hands at hahaha

[@quantumsoftware1424]

Just throw them the money already..

[@Maebbie]

with that you cant watch VR180 without having a black border on all sides lol

[@scaree2496]

I got this idea a while back, damn, I was planning on starting a business once I got out of school.

[@RobertA-hq3vz]

Everyone gets "ideas", but few people have the resources and motivation to turn it into a working business.

[@scaree2496]

@@RobertA-hq3vz why the quotation marks? Motherfucker I'm still using a vive. I would need a Chinese warehouse to make my lens design. My idea is similar but cheaper and less GPU resource consuming. But it's a lot worse fov. My math lead up to around 160 degrees. I'm working on it in my free time, and when I get out of school, I'll start prototyping.

[@seivaDsugnA]

Great. Now I need to grow another eye.

[@JohnnyADi]

That opening is so r a w.

[@coffeebreakhero3743]

Brad, do you think tech will improve sweet spot size before we get movable parts somehow?

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Pancake always improves this quite well depending on display size. Movable parts are something I’m not really confident will happen. Expect for iPd

[@coffeebreakhero3743]

@@SadlyItsBradley hmm. I like your realism. (also thanks for the answer (also when index 2?))

[@Verociity]

If we can get an HMD with 240° in a small form factor Pimax will be sweating in their boots.