"The Woke Right Wing" Legitimate Worries And Terrible Labels

[@Xoruam]

It is simple. If you want to prevent children from seeing stuff for adults... Do your parenting right. Limit their access to the internet. Limit their access to technology. One of the biggest issues we had (and still have TBH), was that parents largely relegated the parenting duty to pretty much _everyone_ but themselves. The state should raise my children. The school should raise my children. The corporation needs to be responsible for what my children see. The public needs to limit what they say so that my child doesn't hear them. These are the same people, whose idea of "parenting" consisted of giving the child a smartphone/IPad for 6 hours, in order to simply get rid of the hassle. No, it's not the internet that needs to be controlled. It's your children that need to be controlled. And _YOU_ are supposed to be the one doing the controlling. Not the state. Not the corporation. Not the internet. Not the public. _YOU._ It is your child, therefore it is your responsibility.

[@dwavenminer]

In short, be a parent, don't let Google be the parent.

[@InquisitorJack]

Yep. That said, there should be limits on what sort of things occur in public places where people should have a reasonable expectation of safety for their kids (no open air orgies in the town square or pornographic billboards please)

[@space.raider.2271]

Personal responsibility is a scary thing for some folks out there.

[@brutalbob842]

And the best part is if you teach your kids to self monitor themselves properly you have a good amount of your work cut out for you as they get older! My parents did it with me and I made sure to click away from and avoid adult oriented content on the internet when I ran into it. Honestly think the majority of what I needed to know to stay safe was taught to me over the course of a week. Of course as I got older I decided on my own what I was ready for, but that comes naturally to kids.

[@sidecharacter7165]

Americano-sphere and self-responsibility go together like Fire and water.

[@HiddenForbidden2]

They Always do this. We use a term that's effective against them, so they try to use it themselves and expect to be taken seriously despite not knowing what the words even mean. We call them woke, they realize being called woke is bad, so they call us woke back in response.

[@PodreyJenkin138]

They did this with the term groomer

[@shinian6523]

I'm not sure that's the case. The term woke has been around a long time, and used by the woke to refer to each other. It's our side that co-opted it and turned it into a pejorative. As well, I dont think its the woke left calling the right woke. I think its more likely people in the center calling both extremes woke

[@gunsarrus7836]

It's right wing sjw all over again

[@John-fk2ky]

@@shinian6523 The non-woke didn’t turn “woke” into a pejorative. They pointed out all the idiocy and illogic that goes hand in hand with being woke, and that logically made the term negative because the thing it was describing was in fact negative while also describing the woke themselves accurately since they do in fact embody those thoughts and actions. To me, the center is only for wishy-washy people who can’t handle making a decision and sticking to it or following an entire thought process consistently. That might be a bit harsh, but that’s how we got to today. A compromise between yes and no on a subject is a slower rate of yes. Worse there’s a complete failure to recognize that so much that the right predicted that the center laughed at has now been proven accurate in their predictions and the center is now where the left used to be while the right (depending on the person) has either not moved or followed leftwards to some extent. The left has moved further leftwards. My point is not to argue in favor of the left or right here, only to point out the uselessness of the center. The best it can do is maintain the status quo, often with no internal logic to hold it there. More often its a blind drift leftward until something dramatic happens and suddenly the center can’t figure out how things got that way and have so absorbed the old left as the status quo that they can’t even try to get back to what used to be the center. I’d say the reverse is possible, but I haven’t found a long term example of it that fits within the current definitions of left and right.

[@ricorosson5752]

@@shinian6523 I never heard the word "woke" in any political context until 2016. Don't try this "it's been around a long time" when that's recent history. I'm 46 and this shit's new.

[@JokerJK-jg1gi]

I am not changing one censor for another. In the end its always Parents trying to avoid their responsibilities by trying to enact an universal decree and expecting others to enforce it. Be a better parent and leave me alone.

[@arkgaharandan5881]

its not up to you, you dont decide the censoring the estabslishment does. The establishment is pro adult videos so that is not getting censored, the right wing christians will never become the establishment because they dont control the media and institutions, liberals jews do who are in support of adult videos. Also arch is wrong the satanic cult was real, the cia vault released the information look up a video by mr metokur "finding the finders cult"

[@sailorcentrist5077]

When I was younger Pokemon was "evil". Thank God my mom was sane. Miss you Mom

[@michaelconnor1542]

@sailorcentrist5077 not evil, but it is technically chicken fighting for kids.

[@dandare9055]

I was able to read Spawn and play Resident Evil 1-2 and Fallout 1-2 along with Heretic 1-2, Hexen, Diablo 1-2 etc. By all means according to back then piety squad I should be a serial killer by now... I support my elderly mom and little sister who is studying and am considered cool benign senior office worker with superb baking skills .... yeah, dramatization is quite often overblown. Parents should be parenting. I was able to talk my comics and games with parents and much elder siblings which lead to good relationship with family. These days it is really rare... especially visible if anyone spend some time as homeroom teach or consultant.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Fun fact: Pope John Paul II gave his blessing to Pokemon in 2000s when the Pokemon movie was airing in Italy. So no the Catholic Church never had Problems with Pokemon. The Problem is that America has been majority Protestant/Evangelical and think the Pope and Catholics aren't Christians. Meanwhile Catholics still see them as Christians. They may not be of the same Doctrine but no one is arguing they don't follow Christ.

[@michaelconnor1542]

@silverhawkscape2677 the current pope isn't even catholic, he's a commie who believes in wokeness first. So, don't be surprised when I don't consider what the Catholic church thinks about issues. Pope John Paul was a great man, and Benedict was a great man. But then Benedict suddenly got sick. Mysteriously when he started moving the church in the right direction. And he had to suddenly retire.

[@ronwatford7331]

​@silverhawkscape2677 fun fact: the Christian church was subverted a long time ago via the national association of churches (I believe that's the name). They're responsible for driving the church not only further Left (feminist and LGBT pastors and acceptance), but also to spin the ministry out of control and drive people away.

[@Onomatopeizator]

"Porn is the canary down the coal mine" - this quote is gold.

[@darkalleyrambler8520]

True, I have to see it tarnish in the slightest in my four decades in this world.

[@zanard33]

Actually, it's loli.

[@tailfin6595]

The canary in the cornhole

[@NTBXP1]

@@zanard33 Both, I'd say. No one said there should be only one canary.

[@NoahGooder]

as somone who has worked in that industry, it really is actually. Many current year interests started as "hey what ifs" in the adult entertainment industry. (I will admit my view comes from the furry depths)

[@Gruntman1234]

It will not stop at porn. Remember how the Left proved that Slippery Slope is NOT a fallacy? This will not magically stop being true just because the Right is "in charge."

[@silverhawkscape2677]

The difference is if you don't police your side and let it happen. The Left extremes we warned about that came true like Euthanasia for the Poor were because the left is that crazy.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

the left proved? You havent been around that long huh??

[@Mardanzo]

Jack Thompson was already the right-wing equivalent to Anita Sarkeesian, but the main difference is that Jack was never supported by the establishment like Anita was

[@silverhawkscape2677]

@@Gruntman1234 Except this time the right is actually more diversified in thought. It's not just made of Puritans but also Libertarians, Centrist, Conservative Christians who engage in Pop Culture like Anime and DnD like Melonie Mac, Pilgrim Pass, Master Samwise etc... I actually am not worried so long as we actually self Police. Just look at Trump. He's rolling back on the gender Insanity but leaving gay marriage alone and letting the states handle abortion. The reality? What is the Right today is different from the Satanic Panic era. So no unless Matt Walsh Multiplies most of them see Video games like Andrew Klavan. (Really, Daily Wire has more diversity of thought than the left. 1) Shapiro doesn't like Video games and Trump 2) Walsh Hates Video games but supports Trump. 3) Andrew Klavan like Video games and maybe Trump.)

[@Sadovari]

So if the slippery slope is not a fallacy, then the increasing sexualisation of games will result in further worse sexualisation? to the point where that becomes the sole feature?

[@stormstrider]

if sexy games are a problem for your kids, it means you failed as a parent. Next issue. As for me, I Don't need anyone to be my parent, kthx.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

its appropriate to remember we live in a very anti-parent state right now. It's easy to say someone failed, but many were indeed set up for failure, and many of their worries of institutional opposition have proven true. What this will do is make parents in general more stricter, and because of the institutional opposition, many would want to get involved in the over all conversation. I guess what I'm saying is, if we want this whole new right movement to actually be a thing, we gotta realize there are many parties involved that deserve to be apart of the larger conversation. Something it seems James Lindsey is trying to stick a divider in, while he pulls his gotcha games. It stands in the way of open conversation. Want to save the world from perceived censorship? Talk to them, and don't label them as problematic wrong thinkers. We know who does that already.

[@stormstrider]

@SoullessAIMusic >perceived censorship you mean 'ban revealing character' that's censorship. and the ESRB exists for a reason I never understood this. I've always been clear about my stance. as a lot of those who share it. these outliers are the ones acting shocked and appalled like it's coming out of left field.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

@@stormstrider and it will only get worse and those outliers become more central. I don't mean ban revealing character. My over all point is that we can't be hardliners if we want some kinda future that is not dominated by radicals.

[@stormstrider]

@@SoullessAIMusic I'm all about making my stance clear and I'm also about gatekeeping said outliers. We don't need help from extremists on either side. Art is an expression. the ESRB has its place to make sure that mature content is rated where it's supposed to be. Parents have their role and should fulfill it. I don't understand why this is an argument.

[@silenciosteve5513]

If you have a problem with nudity and sexual content on a game correctly classified and displaying warnings that there is nudity and serial content in the game you should be shamed for not reading the warnings and have your opinions invalidated. If your country hasn't already banned or censored them before they made available then you should probably just accept that not all games/media is for you and just not buy or interact with it. Like Dustborn and the colossal disappointment of Failguard

[@christophermonteith2774]

Good point

[@sailorcentrist5077]

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't too. I want my female character to look good. I don't look like a stripper doesn't mean I don't want to play as a girl who looks like one.

[@65firered]

It depends on my mood, which is why I find this entire exercise frustrating.

[@darwinxavier3516]

The best approach is to simply have options. Preferably both official and modded appearances. But if not one, then at least the other. The default should conform to whatever is the established aesthetic of the IP if it already exists.

[@adsfafadfasdfasdfasdf]

What happens when all females characters become that way.

[@mdb45424]

the best argument is just let the player make what they want. Frankly if people want pron there are easy places to find it on the internet. For designed charactor add options, again giving the player a choice. thing is this is about taking the choice away from the player. Heck sexy charactors are the majority of mods for most games.

[@reaemishi2278]

I remember a debate a long time ago in an ancient Sargon video where he said banning loli was fine because it would just end there. That it was a special case. How naive the world once was.

[@Skibidididy]

Imagine defending loli... What a loser.

[@gunsarrus7836]

And he's still an idiot simp to this day

[@russianbot2630]

Well loli is basically CP , so I don’t see that being banned as a problem

[@ytnukesme1600]

@@russianbot2630 no it's not. it absolutely isn't and it will open a can of worms that you wouldn't even notice until a decade or so later.

[@gunsarrus7836]

@@russianbot2630 No, you mean lolicon, lolies are just small petite women, lolicons are drawings of child characters

[@EpicTyphlosionTV]

This person sounds like one of those moral busy body types like Matt Walsh who don't understand video games. They're not woke, they're boomers

[@GodOfOrphans]

What's the difference lol, only half joking boomers did start the hippy movement which was w* before the phrase was coined or its larval stage anyway.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@GodOfOrphans The difference is that boomers didn't go out of their way to completely ruin video games from the inside because it didn't align with them politically. They did get the ESRB ratings created as a response to backlash, but ultimately stopped pushing when it was clear it wasn't going anywhere.

[@InquisitorJack]

They’re State-loving collectivists. By definition not Right, but Leftists with policy disagreements. Our paradigm in the USA is Hamiltonian (centralized power, top-down rule) vs Jeffersonian (decentralized power, federalism)

[@sidecharacter7165]

@@GodOfOrphans Hippies became Evangelicals remember.

[@GodOfOrphans]

@@sidecharacter7165 Pretty sure they became university professors although a movement that big definitely has room to mutate in multiple directions.

[@enoughothis]

Nothing is more ruinous for a cause than total victory. No sooner have we got what we where fighting for than we find ways to mess it up.

[@Marinealver]

Exactly, this is NOT the time for peace! This is the time for pursuit and consolidation. Stick, stick and always STICK!

[@marqod1437]

Yep, check out every empire ever. Whatever eventually kills their society turns out to be something they doubled down on doing repeatedly, weakening them until they collapse from within and/or are conquered from outside.

[@arkgaharandan5881]

there wont be total victory the establishment decides what get censored not you and the christian right will never be the establishment because they dont control the institutions.

[@SkeletonXin]

Stop blackpilling ffs. Some puritan boomers don't like gacha games, big deal.

[@denkerbosu3551]

I find hilarious you people think any of this is "total victory"

[@Smilomaniac]

'woke right' is the idiocy of Konstantin Kisin and James Lindsay, both of which have delved into 'both-sides'ism' harder than Dev has. The puritannical right has always existed. Some have posed as convenient allies and now they're showing their true colors once again. The right response, the true response and the easiest response is simply to say "This is not for you, you are free to not buy it. If you're trying to tell others what they can or cannot enjoy, then you are my enemy."

[@malaficus]

I agree.

[@arkgaharandan5881]

yes thank you and if you look up the post in which konstantin kisin says he is retiring the term and has a bunch of lines like using identity politics, distorting history, calling people names to scare them so they do your biding, censorship. All things that the actual woke right in the right which is the israel simps are actually doing. The right is woke on israel the same way the left is woke for blacks. Also arch is wrong, the satanic panic happened look up the finders cult in the cia archives or the video mister metokur called "finding the finders"

[@JohnDoe-sq5nv]

That's maybe a misunderstanding of James Lindsay. He is both-siding, but he is mainly a true believer in liberal democratic values and the constitution as interpreted by said values. The problem is rather that he fails to see that he is just as religious as everybody else. His video on the "woke right" is great and I recognized myself in many things he was saying, for years I've described it as waking up. The mistake is rather that he conflates what the left is waking up to and what I woke up to. I woke up to the fact that I was actively lied to, with many, many concrete examples I could point out right away, by political ideologues who wanted to hide actual truth from me. Not in the abstract sense but in a very, very concrete sense. The left has "woken up" to an abstract idea of the same thing. These two are not even remotely the same and should never be both-sided. The problem for James Lindsay is that he needs to both-side these in order to keep believing in his religion, because once he starts accepting some uncomfortable truths his faith may crack and eventually shatter.

[@Smilomaniac]

@@JohnDoe-sq5nv His problem, the same as Dev and PSA Sitch both have especially, is that they all make a false equivalency between the institutional ideologues and people who say something in public. You can label the first one as a concrete issue, but you can't label the other one as anything but opinion, *yet*. One is surreptitious behavior and the other is James, Devon and Sitch behaving like children, completely emotionally, in the face of someone saying what they want things to be like and then equating the two. The pendulum swing is very real, the harder the left winds that thing, the harder right the response will go, but the answer is *never* to go and label the response as the problem, especially with a broad brush, when the damn problem still exists in full force! People think wokism is dead, but in reality it's still going as strong as ever. People will double and triple down, we still have a full generation of Z'ers coming into adulthood and beginning to take their institutional placements to keep the ideology going strong. It's still going to get worse, just in different ways.

[@cp1cupcake]

@@JohnDoe-sq5nv His recent article about the woke-right kinda made me think that he is either an idiot or just trying to pull an 'I'm not on the right' card. He seemed to have forgotten that belief systems and argumentatives styles are different things. I'm not saying there isn't anything resembling a "woke right", just that I wouldn't look to him to find it.

[@Kaishen021]

There is a major difference between saying that attractive women should be allowed in games without the left grandstanding about "sexism" and "objectification" and saying that every game no matter what needs to include sex appeal. No one credible is saying that Sony needs to put breasts and jiggle physics in Astro Bot.

[@vladcrow4225]

Well, and since when exaggerated dolls are 'attractive'?

[@weeborder69]

the entire point is less gay and more world building. the entire point is to have a story/world not current year politics.

[@10011110011]

@vladcrow4225 If good features are exegerated then the answer is: almost everyone

[@weeborder69]

@@10011110011 more importantly since the thing they "replace" is so shit you dont want to touch it. if the best thing is something you dont want to touch anymore then the next best thing is attractive and if there are problems you adjust it and fix those problems.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@vladcrow4225 As a fellow lover of JUSTICE, shut. We can always find our favorites elsewhere.

[@jaywerner8415]

Considering we have RATINGS BOARDS for every form of media we consume (porn included), It really does make you wonder why people keep pushing to Ban/Censor it. Like, the Labels are quite clear, I fail to see the problem. Oh Right.... Parents don't Parent anymore, thats the real issue.

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

The anti-porn movement is just about insecure women. Nothing more.

[@jaywerner8415]

@@disconcerningcitizen2224 Probably True, also probably the same people that keep trying to ban Anime/Manga. But seriously, WE HAVE A RATINGS BOARD, no need to censor things when we have a rating system for that sort of thing. and yet they keep doing it.

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

@jaywerner8415 not just that. If it was up to them. Everything would be banned. You would have your state issued movies as your sole source of entertainment.

[@RambleOn07]

It's always interesting when Christians being opposed to (p)orn being easily accessible by children or pushed on children is painted as some extremist and authoritarian take.

[@IRMentat]

my stance remains "eff off and mind your own business" in terms of moralising. If its between consenting adults, causing no lasting harm and being done in private no one need care (or know in most cases). Anyone who breaches trust/responsibilities should thus be punished swiftly, harshly and PUBLICLY

[@weeborder69]

i agree but there are to many examples where this ends up being wrong. and most of them come from the left who changed the rules away from this.

[@Tom-sd9jb]

Exactly. -Leave kids alone -Make sure there is consent -Keep it to yourself and those who are interested -Keep it secular. If all of those boxes are ticked I honestly don't give a crap. I don't want or need to know.

[@schnek8927]

If you're a member of society, then what you do in private IS our business. *Especially* if it's something so fundamental as who you're "loving", for example... And who decides if it does no lasting harm? You lot can never be consistent. It's all "Don't do this, BUUUT...", or "Exceeept when...!" Don't want others to *(rightfully)* impose their morals on you? *Go live in the woods.*

[@nullpoint3346]

@@Tom-sd9jb What is "secular" in this context?

[@RealityBackHand]

And yet he platforms Dev who throws around the term "woke right" every chance he gets.

[@zanard33]

Arch can't say no to free money.

[@RealityBackHand]

This is why we need to start a ban Dev fund

[@musicninja98]

​@@zanard33 Yeah, if people stopped paying to scream at Dev, he'd probably get dropped in a heartbeat.

[@chadmagnus5850]

Arch is not a tribalist.

[@ThatOneGuy-mn6dv]

As much as I do respect and like Arch his relations though in some ways understandable for the sake of having people who do hold different views from him and to keep inform what the left is all the time. Yet his relations with Dev and yes his ignorance of outside of the western world while talking trash on something he clearly has no clue on **Cough cough Russia and Ukraine and NATO** are likely going to ruin him.

[@nullpoint3346]

Censorship is the tool of the enemy. If someone calls for censorship they are the enemy. Trust not those that would cut your tongue from your throat!

[@BasileosAlexios]

People need to see the value of freedom if we are ever to have peace and prosperity. We cannot have a tyrannical faction emerge within the ranks.

[@davidfrancisco3502]

You only need one political faction to rule a country.

[@schnek8927]

And that's the reason nothing will ever change. "We can't take control, that's what winners do and we have to lose so we look virtuous!"

[@BasileosAlexios]

@@davidfrancisco3502 I am not American, Amigo, and neither is Arch.

[@BasileosAlexios]

@@schnek8927 Being in control is different than being a tyrant.

[@davidfrancisco3502]

@@BasileosAlexios When everything goes really bad you need a man who rules the land like a harsh but fair father to fix the problems.

[@Ozzystrayroo]

To quote the wise Haneumann from Rogue Trader: Let the cycle be discontinued. Stop the zogging pendulum swing.

[@Marinealver]

So agree to their truce while they're losing grips on the power to harm us, right? As if they will maintain that truce once they grasp the power back?

[@draconariusa7v421]

Stop? But we've only just begun pushing!

[@schnek8927]

@@draconariusa7v421 "Winning is for losers!" - People who are part of the problem.

[@minimum7681]

Heed the words of blessed armanat

[@the11382]

That's not how society works. The pendulum is inherent, and this is another swing.

[@NoahSprague]

As a Christian and someone of absolutely struggles with porn i cannot stress enough that banning things will just make people want it more. Its never a good idea just as with prohibition it only creates more problems. The way out of the porn trap is getting in a community. Just this year, i was in a job i hated in a town getto as hell, so all i could do was stay in my apartment. I now moved back with my parents and am going full hog into achieving my goals and try getting to a town that has a tighter community. How do we stop porn? End loneliness and bring back communities

[@darkalleyrambler8520]

See here, this I can get behind. I may be pro-porn, but nothing in that solution is objectionable. And being free of objection, if it works, it works.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

There’s quite the difference between not banning and outright promoting and wanting it. Too many of the people in this comment section seem to be in the latter camp, and god is that sad and pathetic

[@raumograeywolf5477]

More like end feminism and female empowerment, bring men and women back together, where currently due to the aforementioned empowerment men are being driven away and driven to lay down flat, and once men can have and be in relationships again porn consumption will naturally drop. It's only on the rise as a byproduct of the forces driving men away from everything. It's a pressure release valve and damn right banning it will only be like the war on drugs & it's effects on the cartels i.e. like putting water on a grease fire as if that will put it out.

[@NoahSprague]

Porn addiction is mostly caused by loneliness and I just wish people in higher power could understand that young people are lonely and just saying it's something else is just putting a band aid on a gaping hole. I would hope people would try and fix it but unfortunately the older generation doesn't seem like they have a solution so I guess it's up to us Zoomers to break out of the terminal online trap we have fallen

[@Skibidididy]

​@@NoahSprague its caused by cheap dopamine and supernormal stimulus.

[@otaviolobo7989]

My god, the enemy makes a mistake and the sheep in our side follows through it??

[@Volper1]

A sheep is a sheep no matter the color.

[@davidfrancisco3502]

James Lindsay and those like him never were on our side.

[@zanard33]

You can believe they're on our side... or you can understand they're former levties.

[@chadmagnus5850]

This is why I am a centrist.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

@@chadmagnus5850 “muh enlightened centrism” is simply another way of proclaiming cowardice and lack of conviction

[@sickofwashington]

Yeah, no. I'm old enough to remember the satanic panic and "ban the devil's music" times. There are definitely lunatics on both sides of the spectrum. We've just had to deal with the left-wing variety for so long that we've forgotten about the crazies on our own side. (For examples, just look at some of the replies)

[@Volper1]

I had friends in elementary and middle school that weren’t allowed to play video games, magic the gathering or read Harry Potter because “magic.” The Right will burn themselves down the exact same way again because the right, like the left, never learns their lesson.

[@LeftCross_]

Correct, you gotta call them out too.

[@EpicTyphlosionTV]

@sickofwashington The worst part is how those puritan types will always defend their stance by saying how it's "true to some degree." They never learn

[@davidfrancisco3502]

The "panic" was a political psyop astroturfed to push for state overreach.

[@iinred1954]

The left are aborting babies , starting wars , and forcing children to get their genitals removed. The left are a cult of death. You don't think the right back then had any valid points ?

[@MrZoichi]

I think there is a market for more "tasteful but cute" female models in games; I don't think censorship is the way to bring it about. I would like more games with tasteful models, but I can easily just not buy the ones that don't.

[@MrDezokokotar]

Exactly. There is absolutely tons of people who prefer mild sexiness, whether thats because theyre kids and worried about their parents walking in, or theyre parents who have kids, etc. But who knows, maybe blatant stuff like First Descendent can pull even more players. Let the market decide.

[@65firered]

Easiest solution, wider variety of outfits in games.

[@volkerxd8821]

@MrDezo I'm playing the first decendant now you can dress those same women in panda mascot like outfits fireMAN outfits Dino outfits too but on KZbin for views what gonna get more that or the sexy ones?

[@MrDezokokotar]

@@volkerxd8821 Well sure, but its one of the few mainstream games that does have some pretty blatant outfits. Most other games simply dont go that far. When youre playing the game, you can still see other people in some of the blatant outfits i imagine :D

[@volkerxd8821]

@MrDezokokotar yup you can and right now my valby is dressed in one of those outfits with a colour scheme that makes her look more revealing thing is it's m15+ rated what I see when I play is people just relaxing and having fun though like we used to have.

[@MordethKai]

"this doesn't add anything to gaming!" Yes it does, it makes me happy and what is entertainment for if not that?

[@Nionivek]

Maybe the ENTIRE point if fighting woke... was that WE get the choice on what we consume... Not someone in an ivory tower several hundred kilometers away. . So forgive me if I won't give into the puritanical right.

[@michaelconnor1542]

The "Satanic panic", in the US, was largely democratics. The conservative right, largely had concerns, but actually looked into it and either dismissed it or joined in to help guide those that needed spiritual help. How, my lifelong democrat grandmother thought I was going to hell.

[@icycrusader1947]

Which is funny considering that the Left follows many of the ideals found in Satanism, specifically regarding social and moral aspects.

[@zanard33]

That's one fact Vee will never acknowledge. He sincerely believes it's the right that started the ESRB.

[@darkalleyrambler8520]

Ya didn't come up around a lot of hellfire preachers then. Trust me, crazy over-reaching Christians exist and I have met more than a few.

[@michaelconnor1542]

@zanard33 I don't mind non-governmental guides for games, movies, or tv. I also know that these can and are often instituted or taken over by the left.

[@schnek8927]

@@zanard33 Vee is a grifter anyway, but yes he has a lot of horrible takes.

[@apskwsdws]

I personally think calling these right wing moral busybodies the postmodern right or dissident right would be a much more apt description than the term “woke” right.

[@thomaslacroix6011]

dissident right still has an air of legitimacy. Postmodern right for anyone who understands anything is clearly something to stamp out. I much prefer that term.

[@GodOfOrphans]

Thomas is right stick with postmodern dissident has both an air of legitimacy and generally refers to anti unipartier/establishement and Magats last I checked both of which are allies

[@killsode4760]

Yeah Dissident is too broad of a term for using there, it could apply to dissenting just about anything. But post modernist is good.

[@Heretic_of_the_State]

moral busybodies are anti dissident, and premodern. what are you on about?

[@hplovecraft1445]

You realize James Lindsay is grouping everyone from Carl Benjamen, Academic Agent, straight to Tucker Carlson "Woke Right" right? You do also understand that he's fromer leftist? Do you guys ever wonder where the Neo-cons came from in the first place? They were originally emigres from the left, Troskyists to be accurate. They took over the entire spectrum on the right in the United States after containing paleo-conservatism. Sound familiar at all?

[@relrenegade]

We don't need moderators of our morals and art that only understands reality through extreme views no matter which side they are on

[@Skibidididy]

NSFW isnt art.

[@John-fk2ky]

Define “extreme”. I could easily describe your idea that anything is effectively permissible as being an extreme position. Centrism is not a virtue. In fact, it’s often the least intelligent position to take. There’s nothing supporting it that unites people in the center, just varying appreciations for the status quo without thinking of how it came about. That’s in large part how we got to today.

[@relrenegade]

@@John-fk2ky not allow any other line of thought or behavior

[@relrenegade]

@Skibidididy What is your definition of art? If you don't like it doesn't mean that other people understand it differently

[@ytnukesme1600]

9:34 Jim Sterling said the exact same thing years ago verbatim "no one's coming for your video games", guess what happened next. I've seen this same exact scenario play out the same exact way before.

[@theseer656]

This "woke right" you speak of has a name. "Evangelicals"

[@EpicTyphlosionTV]

"This is the weapon of the Enemy. We do not need it. We will not use it." -Batman (Yes I know Batman isn't a good character to quote, I did because it fits the situation out of context)

[@lolno3906]

Ah yes, Batman, the guy who grew old and died never fixing anything in Gotham.

[@Nobody32990]

​@@lolno3906 because he was too much of a "cat" to actually eliminate Gotham's problems once and for all.

[@maxrobe]

@@lolno3906 Ah yes, Gotham City with its population of nine million peeps can't fix anything itself either.

[@zanard33]

@@maxrobe They could, if they actually disposed of their criminal elements.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

@@maxrobe hes got a point though, Batman put hundreds of criminals away just for a majority of them to hit the streets again. You think he would have tried something different. Maybe if Bruce Wayne created his own prison?

[@EternitynChaos]

If it sells its welcome, if you don't like it, don't buy it. It's not exactly hard to understand

[@christophermonteith2774]

Depends how and why it's selling, to be fair. Mass produced slop will generally sell in larger numbers due to sheer volume, and generally being far cheaper in price. Due to it generally being cheaper to produce, the profit margin is generally far larger too. Does that make such things more welcome than actual good quality things? I'd argue not, but that it's what is fallen back to during hardship

[@tba113]

My first job was stocking shelves at a big-box department store in the late 90's. They had a company policy that if you were running a register, you had to verify ID and age any time someone bought a Rated R movie, a Rated M game, or a CD with an 'Explicit Lyrics' label. To the extent that we need any content restrictions at a company level, the kind we had 25 years ago are plenty.

[@Hirome_Satou]

That's just company policy, not the law. I don't agree with that policy in the same way I don't agree with the government trying to parent.

[@PVCPipeMan]

I will never understand how so many movements will virtually guarantee their own victory, be met with a sign that says "Congratulations! Do nothing for 10 seconds to win!", and will then spend those 10 seconds violenly moving every muscle in their body until they collapse. Its all so tiring.

[@techpriest6962]

The term is used to muddy the water, to make a "both sides" argument.

[@jumptohyperspace]

Why don’t we just return to calling them Authoritarian Right and Authoritarian Left?

[@almalone3282]

Long on the tounge need something more snappy to say

[@jumptohyperspace]

@@almalone3282 Okay. How about the Fun Police?

[@simonnachreiner8380]

Bit hard considering the Overton window is so far left anyone to the right of Stalin is far right.

[@ChristopherMerken]

@@jumptohyperspace basically one are puritans, the other wokists

[@darwinxavier3516]

My theory is that a lot of the people who don't like using the word authoritarian as a pejorative are people who actually LIKE authoritarianism. They just don't want to openly admit it most of the time because it makes them sound like tools.

[@Nalarax]

I believe this whole worry is based on older people seeing shadows. The right is fundamentally not in any position whatsoever to be a problem to contend with. They don't have access to gatekeeping postions or government support, right leaning people on any stripe are also not in prominent positions within game development and other communities. This is a Boogeyman.

[@Hirome_Satou]

If companies think they can make more money pandering to them, they will do that.

[@arkgaharandan5881]

yes thank finally a smart person. People who care about this are liberals who want to virtue signal that they oppose conservatives christian moralists.

[@Nalarax]

@Hirome_Satou For sure, I just don't think that will be happening in our lifetimes.

[@BattleBro77]

​@@Hirome_Satou Companies get far more through ESG (far-left activist investment) than they do in sales.

[@Hirome_Satou]

@@BattleBro77 Tell that to all the companies shutting down and employees being fired and the ESG investment money drying up.

[@Andrew_TS]

We have content rating systems that have worked pretty well for 30 years. I love Jesus, tiities and fictional gore, thank you very much.

[@AbyssalManta]

Yes, yes, exactly this. I do remember the Jack Thompson days; didn't catch the "comics code" era, but heard about it. I have a feeling it was precisely because of how insufferable and stifling the right was back then that it lost its position as the cultural hegemon. When you get old, you start noticing the cyclical patterns...

[@SoullessAIMusic]

I don't really see woke right catching on that well.

[@Marinealver]

That's because it doesn't exist. They/Them just looking for a new word now that "Bigot" and "Nazi" no longer work.

[@Damienx247]

We've had the epitaph of "Puritan" to use for decades. I see no reason to change for modern day slang.

[@persona9709]

It happened once before. It was called "The Satanic Panic", I still remember the mass Harry Potter book burnings. And everyone (to this day) why everyone went "Left" in the late 00's.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

@persona9709 Which hp book burning? I know what you're talking about I'm just amused that both sides have done it while Rowling raked in the cash.

[@persona9709]

@@simonnachreiner8380 The ones that happened in the early 2000's.

[@OldyAlbert]

To illustrate to wokesters how i feel about their politics in videgames i often used an example "imagine that instead on divercity officer and sensetivity readers we had mandatory priest in evey big company that reviews all the morality of game's content and influence hirings of new employees. That's what you doing from the other side" - and the argument is that it's anti-art, wich videogames are. Sure, have your ratings board - i don't want gore and sx to be sold to children either, but that's it.

[@fulgrimventris8506]

Overcorrection is inevitable

[@graye2799]

If theres a market for it, the yes. Products like that should exist. The anti woke backlash was never about making every game into that, it was to let developers have their settings have beauty and sexuality if they want, not that its required.

[@weeborder69]

thats how it started. now you got people saying they should be forced to put loli pantsu shots as repentance for the crap they pulled for years now because it will weed the shit employees out and prevent things from getting this bad agian.

[@Gherichto]

I would love for the "Right" to stay associated with "common sense". Not only the various right-wing political, social and economical values, but also the whole "not a complete and utter nutter" when discussing such things. Here's hoping!

[@Re-PhantomZero]

Religion is the opposite of common sense, therefore you already have a weakest link in the group. How can people who believe in BS be trusted with important issues, especially governing? They can't and they shouldn't. I'm anti woke and i have been warning about this for years, now everyone got their wishes and we'll pay the price of trusting those who for millennia have used their power to oppress. I have been warning, this is not about the left, this is about control and both sides want it, you will side with them at your own peril and we all pay the price.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

I think that idea as a whole is primarily a fantasy. The best we can achieve is a party who can agree to argue without worrying about punishment. This would acquire the party as a whole to come to the realization that there are those that we do not agree with that we will have to be okay sharing a table with. That means people of different belief systems, there may be a lot of disenfranchised liberals in the new right, but there is still a ton of basic conservatives. All of which are due representation. What I see is James Lyndsey trying to fracture that; because he doesn't want to be associated with those with religious values. This wasn't about, "the extreme." There is nothing extreme about a religious right winger, thats actually pretty milk toast. Lyndsey is trying to label them as that, if he really wanted to go after the extreme he would have tried to get a paper published on Alex Jones website. or a known right wing kkk group.

[@Serahpin]

Those who seek power are drawn to... *POWER!* It just takes them time to recalibrate and take over the new power structure.

[@10011110011]

Define "common sense"

[@Hirome_Satou]

Unfortunately it will never happen that way. There are censorious opportunists on both sides, and people tend to not fight back against those they think are or were on their side. This is exactly why the left allowed progressivism and wokism in.

[@DarknessEnmity.]

@ 12:28 That game is rated M for Mature, blame lack of parental control if people too young are playing it and screeching about too much booty 😆

[@gunsarrus7836]

The anti-porn bullshit is just misandry

[@Theo-ew5bl]

I agree, but please don’t look up who owns these pron sites. The owners may or may not be Jews

[@rudolphantler6309]

THEY ARE!

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

@@Theo-ew5bl Why should that matter?

[@MadRobexe]

No its J's using it as a phycological weapon against its ethnic and racial enemies.

[@schnek8927]

@@DarkAdonisVyers Why shouldn't it?

[@daviddesrosiers1946]

I have as much use for these fanatics as I do for the woke fanatics. Which is to say absolutely none.

[@octapusxft]

"moral busybody" is Vee's term of choice and I prefer it

[@RenegadeTM]

Is this not why we have an AO-rating for video games?

[@Cowboycomando54]

Getting an AO rating by the ESRB back in the day used to be a death sentence for games back in the day.

[@RenegadeTM]

@@Cowboycomando54 Thanks for the reply :) I was having a brain fart when I typed that lol. I meant like a pegi 18 rating. The AO is what google came up with. Point being, if it is listed as such a clear rating for all to see. Why have any controversy to the content when it has such clear labels?

[@Cowboycomando54]

@@RenegadeTM It used to be a problem, but digital distribution and the bulk of gamers now in the 18+ age range has made it considerably easier for games considered Mature and even AO to sell. It is the age old problem of lazy parents and busy bodies trying to pass of the burden of responsibility for keeping tabs on the media that their kids consume. Music industry had the same problem, and Dee Schnider, Frank Zappa, and John Denver ripped Al Gore a new one over it.

[@RenegadeTM]

@@Cowboycomando54 I remember those days when Zappa and Dee Snider spoke before those panels, LOL, but yes, I agree.

[@MWBalls]

Most of those Alaskan grapes are the "natives" doing it against their own family members. Volunteer workers who go to help out the remote villages have a huge turnover rate because they tend to develop strong feelings about the "native culture".

[@Wiseguy579]

Yep, I'm Danish and among the Inuit in Greenland there is rampant violence, grape and child abuse(pdf)

[@harbl99]

Ah, like the Australian anthropologist. Give them a drink, ask them about the rich and ancient native Aboriginal culture, and just watch the fireworks.

[@Xarick]

Completely agree. This is why I stopped watching candice owens, brett cooper and benshapiro, they say alot of the right things in opposition to the left, but occasionally the cracks of extremist right show through every now and again and i asked myself "what is their end game" based off of that, i didn't agree with the answer.

[@weeborder69]

2 of those 3 i know and both of them are grifters. never bothered with brett cooper so ill take your word on him based on the other 2.

[@TheTwinkelminkelson]

Being normal is in itself a greater good, to be fair.

[@mattmetawolf8634]

11:06 no we need to punish these behaviors before they get out of hand on either side just because they’re not showing signs of censorship yet that doesn’t mean these very same people don’t become the very people they fight against I’ve seen too many good soldiers fall due to that level of scrutiny they start saying things that you agree with in an overtime they start to mentally Degrade

[@questor55]

Listening to these essays from Arch I have wondered if the Chinese censors have been watching how much cultural power they have gained from their less restrictive game waifu policies and have been easing up on the thresholds of clothing coverage rules mandates. I mean, if allowing for 2mm more bikini lines equates to an extra 100 million yuan sales, and the furtherance of cultural dominance over the west, perhaps there is hope that this trend will continue and the permissiveness of the Chinese censors will only increase.

[@scalliano]

Censorship is bad. Ban it.

[@GummiArms]

Really, what needs to change is this bipolar understanding of the political landscape.

[@SpiceyShit]

Is Porn a problem? Yes. But the reasons why Porn is a problem, mean you have to also remove so much from society you're going to force a puritanical society. And that's assuming that people don't benefit from fighting their personal challenges with sins/problems/self-destructive tendencies

[@Skibidididy]

Looking at NSFW Is a self destructive tendency.

[@GiRR007]

At a certain point you shouldn't give people the need to constantly be fighting their vices. It's like drinking and driving.

[@sim.frischh9781]

The problem are moralistic authoritarians. Basically the people that want to claim a moral high ground and use that to dictate how things should be. Whether that is Christianity or Wokeness, Religions in general are popular for that, but not just.

[@weeborder69]

the problem you have is tradition is proven to work. you dont fuck with tradition unless its provably better like a lightbulb vs a candle. thats the problem with wokeness and not the problem with Christianity. wokeness is trying to go from a light bulb to a candle. Christianity is the candle asking why the light bulb is better. Christianity will change if you can show it the difference. the woke wont change and are suicidal aka self destructive.

[@BattleBro77]

Kind of a nothing statement man ngl. If having morals and expecting people to adhere to them is bad, are laws also bad? Because that's exactly what laws are.

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@BattleBro77 Laws are enforced by guns. You know those guys with the fetish outfits in cars with lights on top? Morals are rules you set for yourself, based on your convictions and values.

[@weeborder69]

@@BattleBro77 its legal to rape your neighbors wife. its the law. if you cant understand the problem with a law like that then you would also be dumb and say things "like are laws also bad." or thing "Basically the people that want to claim a moral high ground and use that to dictate how things should be." this is why the "both sides did are trash" "its diffrent shades of grey" "i dont care who started it" are all problems. i might as well be the god emperor of ethics. no that isnt narrcissm either. we have a lost generation in a multitude of meanings. the only way to stop it at 1 lost generation is to just ignore their bat shit insane ideolagies and adhere to reality. there is nothing you can do or say to convince them they are wrong because they dont think and they dont use words for dialuage. the world on a fundemental level works on a 1+1=2 logic and is fundementally black and white. you never had to like it and as along as you let them blurr the lines and lie to your face about robbing you they will. they have every reason to keep doing it. case and point the trannies in womens sports bs from dogshit women and their crying. i literally fucking told them it would happen. they did it anyways while slandering people like me as racist sexist transphobes. concord in sony. you could literally have gone to the ceo and told him to his face it would fail like it did. he would first laugh at you to your face. fire you for "bigotry" and piss away 400 million anyways. for those that dont understand the problem there are like 325million people in the usa. its 1 million after tax per person. same with elections and spending for adds and campagianing its 1m per person per election after tax nearly. there are the useful idiots who cant understand words on the ground level who are a sheild for people wasting that level of money constantly. you where never gonna vote your way out of this and 2028 will be very very telling.

[@dantealighieri4543]

What we need is the reign of reason and critical thought, we cannot replace one evil with another expecting different results. Common sense through critical thought needs to return and become in the norm, that way we'll have the freedom of choice and respect we used to have in the early 2000's, though in those years we still had people from different political ideologies using games, anime and more as excuses for violence, but at least they were manageable through speech, well structure arguments based on facts, and reason. We need to stablish the reign of critical thought and reason once more and make sure it stays.

[@clydemarshall8095]

You can have sexy characters without making it pornography.

[@MrDezokokotar]

The issue is that pornography is a different thing to different people. Religious puritans called that clip in the video where a girl is shaking her semi-clothed ass pornography. To me, seeing genitalia explicitly is pornography.

[@volkerxd8821]

That always comes across to me as if the person saying it has never seen porn lol not saying that about you just a random comment on the internet from me I guess lol.

[@schnek8927]

Not really, no. Not even against it, i support the male gaze, but you're wrong on that.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

So many people got coomer brain these days. I remember when it was what you didn't show and how you skirted the line that was sexy. Now a days why buy the cow when the milk is free.

[@FakeXero]

Even if some make their art pornographic, thats their right. Dont like it, dont buy it.

[@marqod1437]

"Woke right" Someone didn't want to type "redpilled".

[@jameswild8332]

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. " C S Lewis.

[@Kris.G]

In the UK we've been dealing with woke Conservative party for some time now...

[@Hq123Hq]

Buffer zones are the armament of the gatekeepers; to keep them armed is to keep the threshold ever out of reach.

[@CodexisInkwind]

Ive always been of the opinion that this is in the same vein as trying to negotiate a buisness deal. We need to figure out where it is we ultimately want to settle and where we would be happy as far as game/character design and then argue and make the case for about 2 steps beyond what we actually want. That way when the pushback starts we have ground to give to 'appease' the other side while ultimately landing where we want to be. Thats how i view the current game successes like Stellar Blade, First Descendant, etc. We make the bid for that, let the other side freak out as they currently are. We keep pushing for it until western devs start giving ground and make more attractive characters themselves. At which point we can start 'easing up' on our demands for good looking characters. Beyond that, there will always be mods around for the fanatics on our end that want the more extreme end of provacative characters

[@daisukeakihito9832]

While the term of "woke right" is ridiculous and doesn't even begin to make any sense. There are definite extremes on both sides. Most people want to make our entertainment once again... well... entertaining. But there are absolutely individuals who are pushing it too far the other direction as well.

[@SkeletonXin]

Enough with this Devian "both sides" crap. The "extremists" on our side are some inoffensive trad cats and boomers who still agree with 90% of our opinions. Meanwhile the extremists on the left are fucking marxist demons who have almost brought the West to ruin. There is no comparison.

[@DuoMaxwellDS]

Weird how in the "golden age of gaming", butt cheek on the screen was the norm, especially during the PS1/PS2 era.

[@AShockToTheSystem]

I think those throwing the "W0ke R1ghT" labels and accusations right now are projecting. It's just accusing others of what they do before someone puts the spotlight on them.

[@mikeynth7919]

The line will be discovered when the sales drop.

[@Zhtrik]

So are how bad will it get? 4Kids Yugioh or D&D is Satan? Those are our two options for bad.

[@rolkflameraven1483]

God above, I hate how accurate this is

[@TheAzureNightmare]

Worse. 4Kids *One Piece.*

[@AAhmou]

Let's hope the swing of the pendulum would stop before it reaches that point.

[@austin9568AuraMasterDX]

​@@TheAzureNightmareThe unspeakable evil unleashed by Aku

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@TheAzureNightmare All your cigarettes will be lollipops, resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated

[@mattikuokkanen]

I have watched Melonie Mac. A little. She's unmarried in her 30's, got tattoos, plays video games and talks about them, is a big fan of the original Lara Croft, and is committed to carnivore diet. They call her a conservative.

[@Ragehaven]

Does she not call herself one?

[@mattikuokkanen]

@ I don’t recall it. She may have said she’s not, but I’m not sure.

[@sidecharacter7165]

“Conservative” means late 2000’s liberal now

[@stevekramerf242]

And she larps as a "fundamental" Christian. She might believe in that but it comes off as over the top (=satire).

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Exactly the Point. What even is Conservative much less Christian Conservative has become more lenient then before. Like I have ment so Many KZbinrs who engage in Pop Culture who are also Devout Christians as well. Pilgram Pass and Master Samwise being great examples. There content covers Pop Culture and is a good watch for anyone regardless of Belief. Pilgram Pass is a Devout Catholic but he respects people who don't think like him. He repeatedly says he has no issue with atheist watching his videos.

[@EtherasFox]

This is ALWAYS what happens. One side forms a coalition of allies against a common foe. The coalition wins. It now has hegemony and must choose a new path forward. The coalition begins to fracture, as members want to go in different directions. One faction emerges as the supreme force and begins to shed the others (purity spiral) The abandoned factions join the previously defeated enemy, who has now become welcoming because they need allies. A new coalition forms against a common foe.

[@schnek8927]

Establish monarchy. Establish armed populace. Problem solved.

[@araaraaura1887]

​@@schnek8927Monarchy is an awful form of government.

[@dragonandavatarfan8865]

@@schnek8927 "Establish monarchy" and "Establish armed populace" mix about as well as oil and water.

[@FredrikHennestad]

@@dragonandavatarfan8865 No that is how the world worked for the lasted 1000+ years (in the west) before the 1800s and it worked better then the Hydra gov. with a unarmed and even armed populace we have now. The only thing that made the 1800s and after better is Tech. not the form of government system. Almost all the institutions that was responsible for making that Tech. possible was set up before the shift to republics happened by the order of kings.

[@SkeletonXin]

It's not happening though. This is completely astroturfed. The right gets a mssive victory and all of a sudden this new "woke right" shit appears out of nowhere, what a coincidence.

[@sanguinemarine8144]

Just start calling them the 90s era Boomer right.

[@DonPetexX]

Evangelists was the name

[@NTBXP1]

It has to be something more simple.

[@glawenclattuc3127]

Puritans. It’s those god damned cromwellians who fled to America as ‘pilgrims’.

[@Harley_Mitchelly]

@@NTBXP1 Evangelocon. Puritans. Boomer Con... There's a lot of terms out there, just got to wait for the Alec Baldwin to coin the GamerGate on this.

[@DonPetexX]

@Harley_Mitchelly I think puritan should be used as a lesser insult to be followed by the bigger one.

[@Corrupted_Hivemind]

There is a line and it's called personal preference. Besides we should remember what it means for games to have a rating of T, M or even the rare adults only. Don't complain when you're the one who playing the game without taking the content rating as a warning, the hell do you think when a game is rated T for teens and says "this game features sexual themes or has partial nudity". You don't have to play it if you don't like sexy women😂

[@video-synth]

Didn't we used to call these "woke right" types "pearl clutchers"?

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

We used to call the woke left sjws

[@GodOfOrphans]

Priorities, priorities, priorities, focus on the immediate problem with nigh total institutional and cultural power and a knack for successfully hiding and coming back with a vengeance first until they are crushed completely, then we can sort out whatever else comes up trying to fill the vacuum. The two extremes empower each other the longer we take to deal with the current problem the more likely the other half will become a threat later, the absolute worst thing we could possibly do at this juncture is to split our focus it will slow us down and thus empower both adversaries ensuring no matter who wins we lose.

[@Foxtayls]

I'll try to keep it simple, does impend my freedom or someone else's? No? Then i dont care. Im very religious, and i believe the rule of law must exist, but when it comes to politics, i am not God. Because i am not God, i personally can not make laws to govern people that use porn for example, because i am an imperfect human. Morally, im against it, but to micromanage people's moral code will lead to dogma and authoritarian measures. It's one thing to regulate violent crime because it takes other people's rights in one form or another and it is completely different to regulate morality like alcohol use, gambling, porn and so on. Certain regulations can be good, like making porn safe so actors are not abused or people to know that alcohol has side effects, but even that can cause trouble i.e d.a.r.e causing more interest in drugs. People need to be free and informed to make the best choices, but you can't take their freedom, and they can't take yours. Obviously, it's more complex than this, but it's a good general idea. After all, something like murder takes away someone's right to exist, but somebody doing something in the privacy of their own home, thats between them and God, not me.

[@SOSFREAK]

Being old enough to see the pendulum swing from far right to far left and back again is not enviable but very useful. The price of freedom is responsibility if you don't want it live in a chain

[@SkeletonXin]

The West hasn't been "far-right" sne the 40s, what are you talking about.

[@nemamiah7832]

Problem is radicalisation that had happened. A lot of "right wing" content creators that I had followed in 2014-2018 had went down the deep end of exceedingly weird and strange, which made me distance myself. I sometimes watch from afar and find their new "positions" utterly bizarre. Just as when I was looking at wokies. This is a very strange place to be, as I find my convictions generally the same, yet I find myself alienated from crowds I used to agree with to quite a degree. It's a fascinating case of political isolation.

[@sniperblast]

We just want NORMAL

[@kazekamiha]

Moderates: And we're stuck between the idiots trying to ban everything fun...

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

Pretty much.

[@Mr.KneeGrow]

Moderates are the ones who gave the far left power. As long as the middle ground exists the far left will always win because the slippery slope only works in one direction.

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

@Mr.KneeGrow I'm going to let you in on a little secret. The far left has no power. They are a convenient distraction for the people who are really in power: Apolitical profit driven elites.

[@SkeletonXin]

Hello Dev.

[@St3v3nification]

A functioning marketplace should have optionality.

[@pythagoras2301]

I prefer dangerous freedom over comfortable tyranny. - Thomas Jefferson

[@Skibidididy]

Banning NSFW isnt tyranny, its common sense.

[@Cowboycomando54]

@Skibidididy Says the guy with a brain-rot user name. Get out of here bot.

[@Skibidididy]

@@Cowboycomando54 erm what the sigma this Is so rizzy gyatt! NSFW Is proved to harm the brain.

[@10011110011]

@Cowboycomando54 Still he made a point. Maybe you should stop gooning if freedom is so important to you and advocate why pron is needed.

[@Skibidididy]

@@10011110011 exactly.

[@65firered]

A bit of a side topic but I was reflecting on the words "woke" and "DEI" with a conversation I had with someone and there's an interesting pattern I noticed. If you describe and explain the behavior and policies BEFORE saying it's woke or DEI people are more agreeable to listening. Now, that's a problem because these words are the words being used by the pushing these policies and yet not using them gets people to pay attention to the problems with these polices. Similarly, it's the same if you use words like, "leftist", "far left", or "progressive". So what has happened is a frustrating conundrum where the names have become more taboo than the behavior itself. Which is why we are already at the point where people stop paying attention to what is actually being said the moment we use the words, "woke" or "DEI". If the left has mastered one thing it's gaslighting.

[@DawnOfMutilation]

The games already have rating almost everywhere, but PARENTS ignore it.. I always found it funny if people letting their 12 year old blowing limbs or heads off, but - ohh nooo- there is a nipple in the movie! nooo make it 18+ etc.

[@debanydoombringer1385]

That game is also rated 18+. No, a single nip does not 18+ get. That's an X rating. Rated r in a movie means for adults but teenagers with parental consent. It's a suggestion to the parent. Only X rated movies are legally 18+. Now if a game is full of that level of daubachery I'd have no problem with a legally required 18+ rating on it. Edit: Did you not know teenagers go see rated R movies all the time? Or that a rating of M on a game means the same thing as an R rating?

[@sgt.mangogarcia6186]

"Woke" is the only word that encapsulates the totalitarian cultist behavior, that people are criticizing. Every person who is not aware of this, is responding to tone. It's unfortunate, but we don't have a better catch-all term.

[@AShockToTheSystem]

We have: authoritarians. Alternatively, we could just call everyone by the label that fits them the most, instead of using a catch-all term. Because catch-alls always get overused, diluted, and then lose their meaning, just like what happened by calling everything and everyone a r-cist or n-zi.

[@Metalworks41190]

@@AShockToTheSystem What about culture authoritarians?

[@Zetact_]

I think that the operant issue at the moment is that there are people whose praise and support for games starts and ends with whether or not it has hot girls in it. I mean it wasn't that long ago that even gamers would look down at games like Dead or Alive or Senran Kagura and those are games that actually have a desire to be fun games that just happens to focus a lot on T&A instead of just vehicles to showcase how much effort the devs put into modeling a character's ass.

[@Katzegrin]

The term bible thumpers always worked in my youth.

[@samuelfrank4787]

I called them bible humpers to their faces. 😂

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Won't work anymore. The people who warned the Loudest about LGBT and Trans and how it will corrupt kids were the so called Bible Thumpers. They were only wrong on how BAD it would get.

[@Hq123Hq]

It is an overreach most grievous for the Puritans to impose their own pursuit of salvation upon others, for such compulsion in matters of the soul trespasses the bounds of what may be deemed acceptable in a civil and tolerant society.

[@dezmundtv962]

The extremists on both sides have much more in common with each other than those of us in the middle who simply just want to be left alone with our escapism without any form of censorship. why people on either side seek censorship for things they don't enjoy is baffling to me since anyone has the right to participate or walk away.. They are fine with censorship until suddenly it's their hobby under fire. It's not only hypocritical, it's shameful and irrational.

[@thetreelander7378]

tyrants will be tyrants.

[@John-fk2ky]

Ironically, you’re actually showing why I utterly HATE the so-called center. You have no real thoughts. Not that you’re stupid; you just think “leave me alone” is an intelligent argument when it isn’t even an argument. I can perfectly understand why the left wants to censor some things and some on the right (not that anyone in a position to do so is advocating it) would like to censor others. They see the things they dislike as morally wrong. It’s a large part of why we have laws against theft and murder. We see them as wrong. That you can’t actually grasp that concept shows that you have put little to no thought into this or even tried to look at it from others’ perspectives. Just walking away assumes that the thing you are choosing to engage with or not is morally neutral, which it is not even if you’re not wanting to ban or support something. In an ideal world, I’d happily get rid of pornography, for example. I find it immoral (and could add plenty of other reasons, but I’m not trying to write a book here). I do not, however, argue for banning it, particularly in a culture so divided I’m not sure it qualifies as a single culture at all. The current setup of simply making sure things are correctly rated and labeled is to me perfectly reasonable as a way to solve the problem. No one is coerced, and we’re all free to try to convince each other to support or oppose different ideas. If you want to be left alone, you should have a logical argument for why you should be left alone. In this case, it would be the argument that any strong tool for censorship can be used against its current wielder if power is ever lost. Just saying you can walk away needs an answer to the follow-up question of why someone should walk away and let an immoral act continue.

[@thetreelander7378]

@John-fk2ky okay you complain about the dude not giving an "intelligent argument," but your whole argument for wanting to censor porn is "it's icky." I know you said that you don't want to censor, but "in a perfect world" is just a round about way of saying "if I have the stick." In the end, people who think that banning things make problems go away are just flat wrong, as seen with the war on drugs, the banning of firearms in the UK, and so on. I would also challenge the idea of porn being immoral as in of itself, not bad, but how much one consumes it is. It's amoral with bad actors amongst the industry and addict consumers. What is a personal failing and not the fault of the item. Unless we refuse to hold people personally responsible for their actions and not being the ubermensch that they should strive to be. I am also sure my grammar is buggered but I just woke up and am on the phone.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

@@John-fk2ky because banning corn will NOT have the same effect as banning minecrafting people. These are two different things on a moral scale. One banning is more likely to make it more of an industry underground, there is also no way to 'put it back in the box'. Two, it should be you, your parent's and likewise what they teach you to be the pillar keeping you from it. I am muslim, my mother wears her scarf because she wants to, not because she is forced to. I utterly dislike morality police because you are enforcing virtue that will not exist on the death bed, same applies to corn. Again, children are a different matter.

[@Tom-sd9jb]

You really are making yourself sound silly. Finding a middle ground, like Aristotle's Golden Mean isn't about never having an opinion. It's about trying to come to a measured opinion on different subjects/topics/issues using the information, facts and logic. To out a political spin on it, sometimes that Golden Mean will lean more left or more right, sometimes hard left or hard right. Sometimes it will be dead center. The middle ground isn't a straight line of no decision or opinion and I think a lot of centrists see the world like this... They try not to be blind ideologues.

[@65firered]

Because this is effectively the same argument as the leftists, I'll address it the same way. These games are for adults, mature audiences and have attractive characters which is exactly what people want. Not every game is meant for the same audience, these games should not be censored and there's nothing wrong with attractive characters that are shown to be attractive. Nobody is saying every female character has to look and dress like Eve or Bayonetta but there is a large enough audience that wants that to justify their existence.

[@Skibidididy]

That audience Is the result of jews and other oligarchs working to brainwash people.

[@1776huckleberry]

As long as we aren't being libertarians there is a strong argument to make that the porn industry needs more regulation, starting with real consequences for cases where they refused to remove child exploitation material. Keep in mind that while you may see yourself as a normal person who sometimes uses porn, there are people who do nothing but SUPPLY porn. And anyone who thinks there aren't some weird and sick people in those spheres of culture are kidding themselves. Preserve freedom and liberty, but call a spade a spade.

[@arkgaharandan5881]

we are being libertarians but no one else is.

[@russianbot2630]

Yeah, apparently being against public fornication = being a far right Bible thumper. These people have lost it

[@Dour888]

So its either slaaneshi cultists or friggin redemptionists...truly there is only war😂

[@dragonandavatarfan8865]

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" so as they say.

[@SkeletonXin]

No, calm your tits. This astroturfed "woke right" thing is a couple boomers on Twitter, that's it. It's obviously Divide and Conquer crap, don't fall for it.

[@LoveToSpootch]

I was gonna write a longer comment on why the right as it is now can't be woke.. But then Arch explained it better then me.. Soo, algorithm boost comment I guess ^^

[@zachhughes9149]

Let’s not Cromwell things up.

[@OxyShmoxy]

I hope the both sides can leave the gaming alone. Games should be 100% uncensored and creatively free.

[@JohnAnderson-ev3lp]

Leave it up to the parents

[@release_the_Diddy_list]

Brother, you are absolutely correct to be alert. The pendulum swings too far. Trying for the (unattainable,) balance? No. Hold your beliefs, never become a radical about them. You CAN be wrong.