The WORKBENCH CONUNDRUM | Podcast

In this podcast, I have a general discussion about my growing disinterest with my tall bench, and compare it to my low bench.
I value everyone's beliefs, and knowledge, so feel free to leave a comment.
I also appreciate all feedback, Even bad feedback, just make it constructive.
link to all my content, including the free Roman workbench ebook and plans.
linktr.ee/DW_w...

[@Professorvapes]

personaly I would make a new bench without castors something like a moravian workbench. I made something similar for my shed out of scrap wood

[@DW_woodworks]

@@Professorvapes there has been several people that have said the same about the moravian bench, they seem popular with a lot of people. I must admit, I'm very tempted to build one, they do look good, and stout. Thanks for watching, I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment 👍

[@codyflagg3440]

Many thanks from the US. Helping my mate build a workbench at his new place and I've been torn on what to recommend. I have a Roman bench myself but noobies seem to find them too "primitive" despite the genius of the work holding options.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@codyflagg3440 they are good benches, people are too quick to dismiss them. As I said my back isn't great, so I've got to minimise my use. Ironically I've just designed and built a slot together workbench, which I spoke about in my last podcast. Thanks for watching man 👍

[@donbert]

Have you considered putting a long channel down the center like a Split Top Roubo? You could drop a board down it with a step so you can either have it level with the bench top or slightly (or even more than slightly) higher so you can you it as a planing stop. Then when you want to use a F-Clamp you can remove the board and drop a clamp by it down the middle and twist it to camp on either side of the bench. Also are you using the front apron for work holding? Besides the traditional holdfast/dogs/etc you could adopt a more modern or hybrid style system if you’re not using it anyways. You could go full on Aluminum T Track or as simple as an oval hole(s) you could pass a F-Clamp through if you want.

[@donbert]

Split top clamping example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hl6WaqZoqKehldE

[@donbert]

Modern bench apron holding example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/harXg5uVaKyhfMU I’ve used a modified “Stanton Bench” for years when I lived in an apt and didn’t have room to build a bench. Highly recommend checking Dave’s many videos of the different ways he uses his.

[@DW_woodworks]

It is a split top, and you and several others have suggested the center planning stop, which is a great idea, and not much of an issue to add. I do use the aprons a little, but not extensively, but I am open to all ideas, and will check out your suggested videos. Thanks for taking time out of your day to watch and comment, I really appreciate it 👍

[@donbert]

@@DW_woodworks your low workbench videos are the best out there and what made me decide to do a hybrid Moravian instead of just the traditional height. Happy to make a suggestion after all the inspiration you’ve given me. ☺️

[@davidclark9086]

I understand your thoughts and generally agree. I made and used both types of benches but since I started more and more Japanese tools I used the Roman bench much more to sit on the wood to plane it. Works well and as much as I like the Japanese tools I am not going to sit on the floor.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@davidclark9086 I think the roman workbench is well suited to Japanese woodworking, I would like to try the floor, just to have a go, but my body wouldn't alow me to stay there long. Thanks for watching, I appreciate your time 👍

[@jsmxwll]

i don't use my low bench much anymore but i built it so it locked into my saw horses so i could raise it whenever i needed to sorta copying what i'd seen with Japanese saw horse benches. my saw horses lock into a piece of plywood that i stand on as i am working, so the bench by extension is locked to me and doesn't move around other than some minor racking that goes away when i attach a removable apron. it can be attached on either side depending on if i'm actually using it or just using it for support. fully up on the horses with the apron on the working side it is almost a nickolson bench. i made a removable tool tray that could be attached to the far side to both extend the top width and hold tools if i needed it. almost never used it though. i ended up moving to a place with a lot more room and now i work on laminated top bench with a canted leg vise. probably closest to a moravian, but missing features. i only use my canted leg vise and a moxon that i holdfast to the top when i need it for detail workup near eye level. love your podcast. cheers.

[@DW_woodworks]

I have had similar ideas, but not as good as your idea, there was another chap who has made a moravian bench, with the top able to house 4 legs, and making it a low bench too. I do like the locking sawhorse concept, very good, and practical idea, another one to consider. Thanks for you time man, much appreciated 👍

[@jsmxwll]

@@DW_woodworks all of those ideas really came together because i used that bench for ages and added on and threw away things as they worked or didn't. prolly 5ish years of evolution. i've never had a brilliant idea, just a painfully evolved ones lol

[@DW_woodworks]

@@jsmxwll 😂 I had many of those too.

[@destroyerkuroshiokai]

@@DW_woodworks Thats how I made my low work bench. I made two sets of saw horses modeled on a Japanese style, one low and the other high letting me to tailor the height of my bench. I tailored this bench when space was super limited when I lived in apartments. It broke down and stored under the couch, and I used modules for other tasks like a bench vise or anvil to fill other tasks I needed beyond wood working. During covid it turned out to be a serviceable workout bench too.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@destroyerkuroshiokai sounds like a pretty cool idea, and very practical. I have ended up designing and building a new bench, that flat packs, and it seems to be working out pretty well. I'm currently finishing up on a low bench version of this which stores, Even better because of its size. Thanks for taking the time to watch, I appreciate it 👍

[@stuartansell9461]

The bottom of my bench utilities paving slabs as a bottom shelf.... added weight. Nice video 😊

[@DW_woodworks]

@@stuartansell9461 thanks man, that's a really good idea, I would have never thought of that, thanks for watching man, I appreciate your time 👍

[@blawa]

I’ve been on a Roman workbench for a bit and pondering now a different bench and I have to say it is hard because of how compact the Roman is.. I have very little space and that is informing a lot of my decisions…planing larger pieces on the Roman bench kills my back… but that is really the only downside i really have..

[@DW_woodworks]

That's the same reason I originally started to use the roman workbench, but as you say, it can be taxing on the back, and again same with me that's my only problem, I love everything else about it. Thanks for watching, I appreciate your time 👍

[@dustinharber3744]

I know what you're talking about when it comes to the apron. I built a new bench recently and opted to not have an apron. It just makes things so much easier.

[@DW_woodworks]

Agreed, I think it would be easier for me. If I build another I don't think it will have an apron. Thanks for watching man, I appreciate your time 👍

[@bradhicks9847]

I have a few ~25 pound sandbags on the shelf of my standing bench, along with a bunch of other equipment, which definitely helps prevent the bench scooting under side loads like planing issue. I built my standing bench, because using a low roman bench wasn't working great for my back, either. I have found that switching between planing on the standing bench, and sawing on my low saw benches, seems to strike a happy medium. Hope you can find a balance that works for you, as well!

[@DW_woodworks]

@@bradhicks9847 I could definitely do with some more weight, as you say, it would prevent the bench moving. That's good advice, switching in between the two, and trying to find a happy medium, that would be great. Thanks for taking time out of your day to watch and comment 👍

[@wesandell]

For proper work holding on a nicholson, you probably need some holdfasts and a bunch of dog holes. There is a reason the drawings of the nicholson's had the dog holes spaced out in a pattern on the side board. You can stick a board in a crochet, and let it rest on pegs in the dog holes and plane the edges. Also, you can make a doe's foot, which can help hold pieces in tight against a plane stop while planing (essentially fulfilling the role of a tail vice). The crochet fulfills a lot of what the notch does on the Roman bench. I'd look up Mike Siemen's I believe his name is. He has a whole video series about a viceless bench, but the single video he has for free goes over all the different things. The video series I believe is a guide to build the bench. As far as the bench moving, I'd get some of those rubber horse mats to lay down under the bench. This can add some friction between the legs and the smooth concrete floor and may be enough to prevent the bench from moving. Obviously adding weight helps too, but the smooth concrete floor and the smooth bottom of the leg can allow it to move and you need a lot of weight to overcome that lack of friction.

[@DW_woodworks]

I do have dog holes etc. And you are absolutely spot on with what you say, I really need to try a lot of these methods, and some dogs in the aprons wouldn't harm. I will have to check out the that video. Rubber mats are a great idea, and as you say they will help a lot. Thanks for taking time out of your day to watch and comment, much appreciated 👍

[@thesecretpeople3842]

Dave, maybe a modified 'bench bull' for your Roman bench would help with jobs that put strain on your back.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@thesecretpeople3842 that's another really good idea, that could help a lot. Thanks for watching, I appreciate your time 👍

[@darrenmacmartin9392]

Great discussion Dave, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. The Japanese bench might be an interesting way to go, I’ve seen several videos with Andrew Hunter and it appears to be very versatile and fairly portable as well. There is a similar bench shown in Mortise and Tenon magazine issue 05 in an article about a woodworker named Spencer Nelson who uses mostly Japanese tools. Another option to take a look at might be the Holy Roman workbench in the book “Ingenious Mechanicks” by Christopher Schwarz. Any way you choose to go, it will be an interesting journey.

[@DW_woodworks]

Agreed, it would be an interesting way to go, and I am itching to build a new bench, with all this talk 😂 I can't quite remember the bench in the book, so I'll have to give it another look. As always, I appreciate you taking time out of your day to watch and comment, cheers mate 👍

[@mrmjspencer]

Dave, why don't you cut the Aprons in half so that you have access front to back and also the work holding aspect of the aprons are still there?

[@DW_woodworks]

@@mrmjspencer the aprons are housed into the legs, and the legs are stepped into the aprons. I think it may cause racking while planning, but you have just given me an idea! Think Ron paulk bench, I might be on to a winner 👍

[@mrmjspencer]

@@DW_woodworks great stuff! I designed my bench in a way I can clamp to the thick top.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@mrmjspencer I wish I had, but hopefully I can make it work.

[@stuartansell9461]

Might sound silly, perhaps you could lower the bench, just slightly to increase the drop for your arms... to simulate this stand on something to raise your height from the ground. Experiment. I appreciate that might mess with the leg assembly.

[@DW_woodworks]

Not silly at all mate, and it is something else to consider, and might help me out a lot, another good idea. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment, much appreciated 👍

[@mealua]

Andrew Hunter is the guy I think.

[@DW_woodworks]

Yes mate, you are spot on, that's the fella I was thinking of. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍

[@thomashverring9484]

Working at a tall bench just isn't the same as a low bench. If you haven't, you should watch "Mike Siemsen, Workholding on Viseless Bench". It explains techniques on a tall workbench without a vise.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@thomashverring9484 agreed, thanks man I'll check it out. Thanks for watching 👍

[@z4zuse]

I use a Roubo workbench weighing 140 kg. Pretty stable.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@z4zuse 🤯 wow, that's 2 of me. That thing must be like a tank. Thanks for watching man, I appreciate your time 👍

[@petertiffney4413]

Dave I've had 4 operation on my spine am 62 bench joiner don't over think things do what you can with as little pain as possible there is no fix for your spine problems

[@DW_woodworks]

@@petertiffney4413 yes mate, that's why I'm restricting myself on the roman workbench. 26 years of scaffolding hasn't been kind to me. I do hope you're still able to do the things you love, back problems are horrific. Thanks for watching, much appreciated 👍

[@rickgatewood6442]

It never hurts to have another surface . If nothing else, HSS may kick in. (Horizontal Surface Syndrome) I have a Nicholson and I have not warmed up to my Roman Workbench. My Nicholson has a leg vise and a center planing stop as well as the stop near the vise. That takes care of holding work, especially edge work. Depending on the type of work, the apron on the Nicholson can be a deal breaker. There have been times when I have considered a half Nicholson, half Roubo might be the best of both worlds, but I don't think I have seen one. (Thick laminate top with apron on one side and not on the other.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@rickgatewood6442 I have seen what you speak of. I can't remember where, but someone has built one. It is a good idea, and something to consider. The center planning stop is a good idea, and it's an easy add, it may also sway me a little. Thanks for watching/commenting, I appreciate your time 👍

[@rossmcleod7983]

The Nicholson is probably the default bench here and I don’t like it. I’m just putting the finishing touches to a long build, it’s based on a Moravian and feel like it will be my last. Portable, solid, not huge, plenty of room on the front face for holdfasts, detachable tool well, a modified tail and a separate Moxon vice and full length bench dogs. Very fond of the Roman (yet to build one, but definitely will, many thanks to you. If you are not familiar with the Moravian, check it out, it might just work for you.

[@DW_woodworks]

@@rossmcleod7983 I have seen the moravian bench, I have to admit it has escaped my mind of late, but it's a really good bench to consider, if I make another, good call on that mate 👍 Thanks for watching, much appreciated 👍

[@dominikkusl3786]

Moravian workbench ?

[@DW_woodworks]

Someone else suggested this too, I think it's a good idea, and a good contender, for a new bench. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment 👍

[@donbert]

I’m currently building a hybrid low Roman/moravian. I got. 2” thick slab that’s 12” wide that I can put on top of a traditional Moravian bench (along with a tool well) but I’m also building a set a legs “low” legs that I can put the same slab down on.

[@DW_woodworks]

​@@donbert man that's a great idea, I'll definitely remember that one 👍