The Worlds most DEADLY Sword...The RAPIER!

[@skiveman]

I felt the pain when Tyranth made the joke "From a more civilised time" and both Nate and Shad just ignored him. I felt for him there. It was a decent joke and his face when they just carried on.....

[@kingzach74]

Ah yes, the Star Wars reference that Shad and Nate completely ignored.

[@VigilantErik]

And then he was very quiet after that. :(

[@RyzawaCh]

At least the editor caught onto it.

[@ToaCody1]

Might have gotten a stronger response had he not paraphrased.

[@whitewolf3051]

To be fair, Shad did say it was elegant in design, that it wasn’t civilized, but more on the brutally deadly side.

[@robertoprestigiacomo253]

Rapier fencer here! Long comment to touch several of the points: Swinging a rapier alone won't tire your arm quicker. It's the combination of cutting and point-play that will. It is actually more tiring doing the pointy play because doing minimal movements require a lot of control, engaging mostly your forearm and hand (I have fenced with rapiers for 7 hours in a single day at an event and my index and middle fingers were destroyed and was difficult to control the sword only for that) so you have fewer muscles operating the same weight. When you start swinging, your arm will be tired from point-play making it more difficult. In general, swinging a rapier is just a bit weird because it's too long. The point Shad made about the stances and strenght is true (especially in Spanish Destreza) but it's also part of the rapier training to adjust your posture so that you engage your back muscles to reduce the stress on arm and shoulder (by sacrificing a few cm of reach), and you alternate resting and extended positions all the time (even in Destreza) to avoid draining yourself. From a roleplay point of view, all swords should be dexterity-based, but I met lots of people with little dexterity or finesse doing good in longsword while the same cannot be said for rapier (or sabre) for the most part. So, if I had to choose only 1 sword to be dexterity-based, that would be the rapier. It's actually easy to stab through a swept hilt rapier (especially one that minimalistic) and that's nasty. A swept hilt rapier generally only defend well against "well behaved" cuts. Though I'm not a Spanish Destreza fanboy, I think cup hilt rapiers are objectively superior in design (and I only use those in HEMA... I like my fingers to stay unbroken). I would do a very stretched thrust with a rapier only against another rapierist who doesn't cut too much. It breaks your posture too much and makes you exposed from cuts from many directions if you miss.

[@nicholasdelgiudice2263]

Hi, destreza (and Thibault too) fanboy here, glad you see it too! Cup hilt is imo the most evolved rapier, and the most practical for combat due to the cup. You can hide behind it like a buckler and cover a lot of your body, all while not getting your fingers cut/smashed! Compared to many swept hilts I've seen/handled though, they're not quite as convenient to wear as the hilt must naturally be far enough away from the body to not touch, as it cannot lay flush with the cup. Conversely, many swept hilts seem to have a flatter side where it should lay against the body, making it a bit easier to wear. Paired with its position as a status symbol, the swept hilt's popularity is no surprise.

[@robertoprestigiacomo253]

@@nicholasdelgiudice2263 If I was a fencer in those times, I would prefer to carry something that is less comfortable but will save my fingers. I have been stabbed (and stabbed others) too many times through various Italian and German swept hilt rapiers to be comfortable with them. I'm surprised that as Italian rapier masters further developed the style, they never changed substantially the design of the sword since they focused much more on thrusting and in my mind that would be a priority for them more than for the Spaniards. I understand fashion was important but come on... Even a mediocre fencer can thrust easily through that.

[@TeacherinTraining39]

I was looking for just this sort of analysis. I vastly prefer the cup hilt, for those very reasons outlined previously. After actually doing my research properly as to terminologies and whatnot, I think my main favorite would have to be the Hutton Sabre, though I would like to customize the guard a bit, tapering it down more gradually so it covers more of my very large hand, and give it a bent French grip, preferably with something like a finger ring. I could never use it in any form of competition, of course, but I'm an amateur who just spars for fun anyway.

[@trulyinfamous]

Thank you for making this comment into multiple paragraphs instead of a wall of text. Much more readable.

[@jocamar15]

Cup hilted rapiers are indeed superior, and probably the reason Spanish kept using them for longer than other nations.

[@nicolaspeigne1429]

Not a lot of people understand how many young men killed each other in duels throughout the late Middle Ages and Renaissance. Just talking about France and they kept banning duels nationwide every hundred years because young and excitable nobles kept getting offed in a alleyway or a nearby hill

[@ANDELE3025]

A bulk of the bans came from the more prolific use of poisons, self wounding (and "early" but prone to not or off firing guns) when it was related to the notable nobles than the rapiers themselves. If a Burgundian coat was sufficient back then to prevent lethal cuts and thrusts that arent at wrestling distance and during the reign of the hon hon hon sunny boy the estimates are that out of some 11~19k duels fought by the upper class at most around 1k died (proportional record far better than Napoleons officers).

[@tonyvazquez7612]

The idea of the rapier as a finesse weapon in games probably comes from the introduction of damage types. It makes a kind of sense for a Piercing weapon to be considered more nimble or dexterous than a slashing weapon like the longsword.

[@donwild50]

Cardinal Richelieu and Louis XIII banned duels between soldiers and especially officers on pain of death. His logic was precise.."You exist to kill the enemies of France, not your personal enemies...especially on the basis of some petty assumption of insult. The killing for the State outweighs the killing for personal glory."

[@skypaladin9878]

I remember my math teacher saying how one of the old mathematicians was unable to finish his theorem because he died in a duel.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

And now dueling is down to who can wip out their cellphone and hit "911" first.

[@kathrynck]

Blackbeard the pirate carried 8 (eight) single-shot pistols, and a rapier, and a dagger. At that point in history, that was pretty much the pinnacle of gear choices for "...and I'm all out of bubblegum"

[@alexconn7473]

I always thought that blackbeard's sword of choice would have been a cutlass or saber but a rapier would work for him too

[@kathrynck]

@@alexconn7473 cutlass & saber are really good too. realistically, i doubt it was always the same. he could pick up whatever he wanted on any given day ;)

[@benwagner5089]

@@alexconn7473 Depends where the fight takes place. On board ship, it might be easier to wield a short cutlass than a long rapier. Of course, he has the dagger already, so he'd be ready for that too.

[@charvmcchungus4744]

Why’d bro have to clarify the number?????

[@TheDark1903]

​@@charvmcchungus4744 because you try carrying that many single shot pistols!! 😂

[@Kiljaedenas]

I've personally trained in these. I was ASTOUNDED at how different the combat style is compared to everything you see in media, with all the elaborate slashes, cuts, blocks etc... You train, for HOURS, to be able to deflect your opponent's weapon and kill the enemy in one, single, move. You wait until they're in range, BAM, dead, from one super long-range lunge where you've drilled for hours to hit a fingertip. And the lunge distance is completely nuts; your baseline stance is a "back stance", where 60-70% of your weight is on your back leg with your front leg a bit forward. Then, when you're ready to attack (and you also drill for hours to be able to tell the exact split second when your opponent is within range), your front foot goes slightly forward and you completely extend in almost a kind of hyper-lunge. The distance the tip of the sword travels in this one attack is huge; only long spears can surpass it.

[@GabrielDeOliveira721]

I take you are fairly strong then, would you say, that with all your training, what is more important and have more prominence in attacks, strength or dexterity? You need to train for a long time to be able to use this high difficult sword, you also need to make it muscle memory, you need to keep your body in shape but also need to be quick and keep your eyes peeled to any movement and your body ready to go offensive or defensive. So would you say someone stronger or someone weaker but more dextrous would win against you? Consider a exact clone of you but with these characteristics, who do you think would win? Would you prefer to be more nimble or stronger than the opponent?

[@nicholasdelgiudice2263]

​@@GabrielDeOliveira721 Interesting question. I would add it depends on the style. While of course, there is no way around conditioning, muscle memory, and practice, not every rapier style is incredibly athletic, nor do they all even use full lunges. I study (quite badly) the Spanish style of rapier combat (and Thibault's weird take on it) which focuses more on distance, getting a bind, and moving your body into advantageous geometry against your opponent. It's a lot less explosive than what I've seen of the Italian styles, and less reliant on sheer power. That said, we generally stand fairly upright, with our arm and blade straight out from the side of the body, parallel to the floor, and holding that position and keeping your point at the opponent's head/upper chest while maneuvering ain't no joke. It's pretty tiring. All said and done, different styles/schools, different emphasis on athleticism and strength vs point manipulation, bonding, and smart angles of attack.

[@Kiljaedenas]

@@GabrielDeOliveira721 Actually the rapier doesn't take extensive strength to use compared to other weapons. Even though I am definitely not small (6ft 2in 265lbs) there were notably smaller students (including women) in my class. This is definitely a more dexterity-focused weapon, where technique is everything. You don't need to "Hulk SMASH" power strike with a rapier. It's all about positioning, timing and angles. You aim to have the strong part of your blade (the Forte, or in laymen's terms the half of your blade closer to you so you get better torque leverage) against the Weak part of their blade (I forget the name they gave to it, but it is the further half of their blade so they have much harder torque to overcome). And you don't need to swing wide to deflect their strike; you aim to re-angle their blade just enough while you simultaneously are stabbing in so that you hit them while their sword (in training, also a rapier so using a thrusting stab) is deflected just enough to the side to miss you. In the lunge you also put your upper body sideways so you're as narrow of a target as possible, so it does not take much of a re-angling at all of the enemy's blade for them to miss.

[@AnimaVox_]

​@@nicholasdelgiudice2263Informative input. I've taken an interest in Destreza as well, but there are very few schools available, and none anywhere near where I live.

[@Joseph-fo9lh]

Bruce Lee took fencing footwork and added it to his martial arts jkd because of all the things you listed here.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

In Dungeons And Dragons I once had a DM who would not let me throw a rapier because "That's too over powered. I can't think of anything the enemy can do about it. Nirhehur!" In honor of him rapier + javelin = my next homebrew weapon. The Pilum!

[@paille-boy]

Like the enemy gonna do enything when the 4m tall, 300kg demi orc gonna yeet a rock the size of a child at them

[@TheSteam02]

Wow, your DM's a pussy.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

@@TheSteam02 Was. I fired him.

[@Borissh89]

I mean, a rapier is not a "throwing weapon", so it'll just be an improvised weapon.

[@DSFARGEG00]

You might be interested in the system Honor + Intrigue, which makes certain "ungentlemanly" maneuvers like throwing your sword both possible and mechanically useful.

[@GU5S]

Reach is such an advantage in any combat. I train in Muay Thai and had a few fights in my time too, sparred for countless hours. Reach is not to be underestimated. Even an opponent with just an inch or two on you makes things more difficult than many realise and takes some skill to counter or overcome the disadvantage it puts you at.

[@gloving4hire]

Yeah but it’s balanced because the long to short guard and the clinch, you can teep and jab all day but with boxing foot work you can close the gaps if you dont duck a lot. I think the best sword is a long sword/great sword still because, at the proper weight and length you can still smash armor and idk I dont see a rapier being OP just due to it has to retract at some point. Also can wear them down and parry. My style of fighting is tricky patience and big explosive burst or the former as a fake just to work the jab to double leg someone

[@rachdarastrix5251]

Is this why whenever I suggest people use a sword they imagine a 300 pound thing that is so long you can't possibly run without tripping?

[@destrobatman5640]

The rapier has deceptive speed also the tip control is 😱.u just have to try it out,helps with the stance😥but I still love them😁

[@noahbodhi8657]

For real. I fought this dude who was 5'8" woth a 76" reach. Now, I'm 6'1" with a 79" but he was so difficult to jab. I had to rely on teep, cuz his legs didn't match! Jaja.

[@trulyinfamous]

It's one thing I've learned from Dark Souls. I always prefer a weapon like the claymore with its thrust strong attacks, or a long weapon like a spear or halberd. When you can keep plenty of distance from an enemy, you simply don't get hit.

[@manuelbarreto7032]

Rapier stems from the Spanish word "Ropera". It's firstly mentioned in Spain in 1445, in "Las Coplas de la Panadera". It's meant for civil use in duels, Ropera stems from Ropa, clothes, because this sword wasn't meant to be use in conjuction with any kind of armor but civil cloths. 😊

[@pereximepere8439]

Gracias, siempre me pregunte eso.

[@sinisterplank3113]

Love this kind of etymology detail

[@darthplagueis13]

Interestingly, there were two very distinct approaches to rapier fencing in the early modern period. If you've played the game Hellish Quart, you'll actually know them, as the two ladies using rapiers in that game, Marta and Marie, each make use of one of these approaches. Namely, the italian and the spanish style. The italian style is what Marie uses, it's basically about staying out of reach, making yourself as small of a target as you can get, generally avoiding binds and instead trying to catch the opponent off-guard with a quick lunge forward. The spanish style is that of Marta, and where the italian style seeks to avoid binds in order to not give away information, the spanish style seeks binds in hopes of being able to read what the opponent is about to do. You generally stand straight, with your arm often at more of an angle rather than being stretched (allowing you to quickly extend your reach in a thrust), and instead of a far lunge, you try to knock the enemy blade aside, so you have an opening to step in and extend your arm into a thrust, blowing through the enemies cover. They both have their up-and downsides, for example in the italian style, there is a higher risk of a double hit, as both combattants lunged forward at the same time and not being able to react in time to deflect the opponents thrust. The spanish style on the other hand makes you a bit more vulnerable as you're fencing at a closer range, plus if the opponent doesn't also want to bind, things can get rather troubling.

[@nicholasdelgiudice2263]

Hey there, I agree with everything you said, but would offer additional clarification on the Spanish style: ideally, you never really get close in the Spanish style. You've got the point of the atajo down, but timing and more importantly, distance are key. Destreza is based on geometry and your ideal distance. The goal of the upright stance and extended blade (aimed at the throat or face) is to keep your opponent at a distance. As soon as they enter, your goal is to bind and change your angle to the target by either maneuvering the blade arm/wrist to a advantageous position, or for me, more commonly, rotating around the circle to put my blade in position to hit while making it hard/impossible for an opponent to hit. If they lunge, I back up or sidestep if I cannot get a bind. Once they're in range of my blade, I immediately seek an atajo, or move to a position where I can find one! Idk how that compares to Italian style as I actually went straight from sport epee to Carranza, Narvaez, and Thibault. So, I never studied the Bolognese school or any of the others, you'd know far better than I!

[@robertoprestigiacomo253]

Italian rapier is a game of tempo and distance. It's easy to learn the moves but very hard to master how to perform them safely. It was generally meant to kill. Rapiers were longer, and it was very athletic and that could easily get you killed if you were very aggressive without mastery of tempo. Spanish styles were about keeping yourself in a safe position at all times which is better done at mid and short distance. Shorter blades and lots of blade "manipulation" to keep yourself safe, so you actually want to be close. The priority for the Spaniards was to get out from the duel alive, without necessarily killing your opponent as fencing in Spain was heavily influenced by the Christian culture and killing was bad. Also consider that in Spanish destreza there's a posture called 'Bella Espanola' which aimed at protecting the lower body and was developed to contrast Italian and French schools and fencing from that posture is somewhat similar to Italian rapier (I'm not sure about the period so I can't say which specific style would face against the Bella Espanola): lunges, lower on the legs, and tend to keep distance.

[@brago900]

Note that Verdadera Destreza is usually combined with the use of a dagger, its highest priority is that you do not die and its main objective is to disarm the opponent. Verdadera Destreza has many methods to kill but its mastery is achieved by mastering the methods that allow you not to kill and therefore avoid penance.

[@AnimaVox_]

​@@robertoprestigiacomo253I think the Spanish fencing you're referring to with the Italian-like stance is Destreza comun (Vulgar Destreza).

[@edi9892]

Technically, Kalkstein is also representing a rapier style even though he doesn't wield one!

[@macrendilysmir1876]

I remember hearing how in movies where the people are using rapiers (f.e. Mask of Zorro), the actors are actually taught sabre techniques because it's flashier. More blade-glinting cuts and slashes instead of some quick pokies.

[@jocamar15]

Pretty sure that in the Mask of Zorro they're either using smallswords or spadroons. But yeah, they usually then to go more for flashyness instead of stabbyness

[@ΠαναγιώτηςΑγγελέλης]

Yes neither Diego or Alejandro are using a rapier

[@cargo71]

@@ΠαναγιώτηςΑγγελέλης in Mask..., in the training scene, Alejandro is using a rapier, while Diego uses a straight officer sabre/sword...

[@Trikipum]

man, el Zorro is actually spanish.. he is a criollo.. so basically a spanish dude who was born in what later became mexico.. They surely will use a style with cuts becase the spanish style is like that..

[@EllAntares]

@@Trikipum Not quite,but it stens from same thought that raier is a dexterity-based weapon. The discipline was called `La Verdadera Destreza` (True Dexterity)

[@craydev5894]

We goin true dex build with this one boys

[@NonnoSandroBebop]

Dex build best build (except for con build specifically for tanks)

[@ShrekLookalikeAlehandro]

Bro just needs the classy english accent and the fancy frilled clothing

[@texanplayer7651]

Dunno man, the feat "slashing grace" requires that one hand must be free to apply damage with your dex modifier, which severely limits your possibilities

[@genericnamehere7602]

​@@texanplayer7651Anf with a high enough DEX ypu can offset the off-hand penalties of wielding a Main Gauche in tandem.

[@lunacorvus3585]

@@onearmedwolf6512It always bothers me that the “heavy” attack of an estoc in Dark Souls is cutting

[@NoBSSurvival]

I'd love a triple edged estoc. It seems like an estoc is to a long sword what a rapier is to an arming sword.

[@trollmastermike52845]

Dark soul 1 players yes

[@forhonorknight]

What's the difference between a rapier and an estoc?

[@NoBSSurvival]

@@forhonorknight an estoc is about 1.5m long, two handed with a crossguard and can have I hollow ground 3 edged cross section. Rapiers might get those to.

[@samb123078]

Estoc? Never heard of it, you sure it isn’t called bestoc?

[@Andrew-s4g]

Estoc comes from a novel that I cannot remember the name of I'm thinking Horse Lords of some such Altrou gave me my first Estoc and the triple scars of the eijo heal quickly on my palm.

[@rayceeya8659]

It really is. It was the ultimate evolution of the longsword. They were still using rapiers after the development of firearms they were so good.

[@asahearts1]

To be fair, many swords were used even after firearms were introduced.

[@Koushakur]

Yeah because firearms for a very long time could only shoot a single shot before needing a convoluted reload. It's not so much that the rapier were good, it's that the firearms were pretty bad at a time the rapier was popular.

[@6038am]

Cavalry sabers and katanas was used until ww2. And bayonet knives are still in use, and in ww1 some had up to 52 cm blades.

[@valrond]

@@Koushakur The rapier was popular because it was the best sword. It is the final evolution. What would you wear on the 17th century instead of a rapier?

[@rachdarastrix5251]

The main reason for the decline of the bayonet in modern times isn't because soldiers don't face close quarters anymore its because machetes are simply better. Just kidding its because rifles got shorter so a bayonet on a modern rifle.... ... Actually has less reach than a machete.

[@EJdelGato]

Thanks, gents. Just got in a car crash a couple hours and your guys' video did a lot to soothe my nerves. Cheers!

[@mikkohernborg5291]

I think one of the reasons for people thinking rapiers are light is because of so many three musketeers movies and similar, where they use fencing foils… And many people actually think of foils when saying 'rapier'. Again, we must blame Hollywood.

[@robertpatter5509]

The triangular Smallsword is a very light and agile blade.

[@OptimusJedi]

Rapiers are the favorite of every woman I’ve ever known who is into RennFaire and Fantasy. Movies and games of course push them being light and agile. You always see a woman or a waif-y dude wielding one. Always nice to get some real info on them.

[@marvindebot3264]

The best female sword fighter I've ever known (a Prima Spada member) is a tiny little thing but my oh my can she wield a rapier!

[@robertpatter5509]

If you do want light and agile then the Triangular Smallsword is for you. They can go from 10oz(312g) to a bit over 16 oz.(455 g) Incredibly agile and light. I have a few antiques and they are over 300 years old. Still pointy.

[@ewok40k]

Interesting point: famous Polish winged Hussars used to carry 2 swords into battle: the usual, famous Polish saber as standard "sidearm", but also extemely long (5 feet plus!) piercing sword called "koncerz" that was used as kind of ersatz lance after the lance was broken in the charge. It was used only from hoseback, and attached to saddle instead of belt.

[@AnimaVox_]

Hellish Quart's gameplay is remarkably sobering and made me really think about how brutal real-world duels must've been. Not a perfect game since it's unfinished, but I think it truly nails the grim reality of duelling.

[@mendacii9391]

I've been checking in on it every couple of months for the past year(?) It's always surprising when your death comes so quickly...sometimes more surprising when you deal death just as quick! I also really dig the stance changing and attention to swordplay + sword style. Cheers!

[@tony_h_ddd3151]

Rapiers go straight to the point. No messing around.

[@GothicSoldier9000]

Hopefully you can do a follow-up talking about the estoc (or tuck). It's effectively a simplified rapier PURELY made for thrusting and defeating armor, while also having a two-handed grip and oftentimes a unique crossguard with side-bent quillons. Being that it weighs upwards of 4 pounds (~2 kg), it also makes a decent bludgeon in a pinch. By far my personal favorite design. Edit: almost forgot that there was also a version specifically made for hunting. The tip is turned into a leaf-shaped blade with perpendicular "fins" which give it a very distinctive look.

[@kingzach74]

Isn't Needle(Arya's sword) from GoT an Estoc?

[@МихаилПрозоров-ц8ф]

@@kingzach74 Arya's sword, as I think of it, is very simular to 18th century smallswords - an evolution of rapier, a bit shorter and thinner, and purely thrust-oriented.

[@AThousandYoung]

@@kingzach74 Maybe a very small one. Needle is more like a smallsword without the clamshell guard. Estocs are what bullfighters use to kill the bull. Usually they are longsword sized.

[@spacecowboy5486]

Estoc is bestoc

[@mohammadtausifrafi8277]

Estoc was mainly a war weapon, unlike rapier.

[@blairashby7334]

I laughed at the star wars joke! You are fuuny and you do have friends!

[@Giosuke_Giogashikata]

Maybe it’s not a sword, but a key that when it touches people, it unlocks their deaths. -Michael J. Caboose, who hates taxes

[@adelinegill752]

Didn't think I would see a red vs blue reference here but I'm all for it 😂

[@michaelwebster3124]

And also texas

[@SilentUltrex]

I think it would have been interesting to go into detail about the parrying dagger. Which i believe was used with the rapier. There were some cool ones like the sword breaker but maybe they will make another video about it.

[@thearcanehunter2736]

Doesn't Shad have an older video on the sword breaker? I remember being obsessed with it for a while.

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

There are many types of parrying dagger, some were 100% intended to be used with rapiers, such as the Vizcaína, iconic of the spanish school of rapier fencing, or the Sword Breaker more typical of italian fencing, plus that strange one where the blades pop out that was used sometimes in italy... that one was just weird. But point is, there's a LOT of other parry blades from prior eras, like the misericordia (which actually was used as a term for parrying daggers in general even post rapier) or hell even some preroman examples like celtic daggers... Point is. This topic is BROAD and some are definitely not meant to be used the same way as others. Example, the rondel dagger, which had a flat back to be used like a brutal chissel to get through mail armor by beating the backside and was often triangular like some estoqs as a result... That thing was honestly just bloody brutal.

[@iandalcourt3384]

I feel the spirit of a "dex" weapon vs a "str" weapon in RPG's for example using the rapier and the arming sword... one is used in a more "dexterous" manner with precision piercing and the other is used in a more "strength" manner with hard weighted slashes... which I feel is fair.

[@wulfthemountaindragon5432]

I've always seen dexterity in games as as an all around stat point for both physical dexterity, and skill with a weapon. So, depending on various factors a weapon that requires you to be a certain level of dexterity is requiring you to be both physically adept and also skilled.

[@Aquilenne]

Ah, the Demon's Souls approach to dex weapons. Minimum str to not be awful, then mostly dex based for excelling.

[@michaeljay4816]

Surprised I missed this video. My favorite sword. Entertaining analysis. Thank you. Definitely going to watch the linked video now.

[@JackofNothingess]

Best in the world! Except ... In Shadow of the Conquerer rapiers are detested for their lack of utility during the Long Night. By the way it's a wonderful book!

[@John_Souls]

I hope we will get some more Rapiers videos in the future.

[@wubear260]

Yikes the rapier is deadly. Being able to do substantial damage to the human body is insane. Makes me see the three musketeers in a new light after seeing the damage the rapier does and how to be able to train to be using the sword effectively. Keep up the great work guys. Flick of the wrist.

[@General_Kenobi_212]

The 3 Musketeers are showing us an epic Rapier lol, but seriously, love the video guys 👍

[@kevinmorrice]

I initially learned Hungarian saber style on the rapier, as my tutor taught stage actors how to appear flashy, think Errol Flynn Edit: I have since learned proper fencing styles Also, looke up mensur, it's a brutal German style, that to this day a mensur scar is considered a mark of manhood

[@darthplagueis13]

Mensur has fallen a little out of favour as a result of the fact that it was super en vogue in student fraternities at the beginning of the 20th century, which led to many high-ranking members of the nazi party having a mensur scar or "Schmiss", as these scars were often called. You don't really see these scars anymore, at least not here in germany, as noone will seriously consider doing any kind of fencing against a real opponent with sharp blades, which is what caused these scars during mensur duels, plus noone wants to look like they've just escaped from the set of a Hollywood movie and have just ditched their SS uniform somewhere.

[@balazskertesz5010]

​@@darthplagueis13actually, when I studied in Bavaria, I lived in a student dormitory that belonged to a "Schlagende Verbindung", or a Studentencorps that practiced Mensur. Sometimes I saw traces of blood on the floor...

[@darthplagueis13]

@@balazskertesz5010 Oh, it's not illegal or anything, it's just fallen from grace, relatively speaking. I mean, there was a time when basically every german academic who wanted to be instantly recognizable as one practiced Mensur just so they could get a Schmiss, there's even reports of people faking one because they wanted the look but not the risk and effort.

[@alexcampos7953]

the proper fencing style is great for tournaments... but it is damn cool doing a demonstration for kids and pulling flashmoves like parrying fourth, controlling down to second while stepping in really close, circle arm over opponents head and touching him in the back while walking past him. I used to do that in a couple of showings and it never failed to get kids signing up for the fencing classes hahaha

[@kevinmorrice]

@@alexcampos7953 yeah, Hungarian sabre with a rapier is meant to be flashy, thats why hollywood used it for decades

[@riasapta4109]

Rapier is popular sword in europe as side arm for musketeer, this is subtitute for pike/spear to fend off the cavalry before the invention of bayonet

[@lusamine2409]

I've been waiting for this specific video to come out for so long, thanks you shad!

[@Pikachublaster12]

I love how the rapiers gets called a “fancy bullet” by Nate.

[@wiper7000]

Can we just appreciate 3 guys geeking out over swords to the point where they can hardly contain themselves in waiting their turn to speak xD? You guys are great! Keep it up!

[@General_Kenobi_212]

I know you tend to focus on European Swords with the exception of the Katana, but it'd be cool to see a comparison of the Rapier with the Chinese Jian, a Sword which is also very thrust oriented

[@eatonknass247]

He showed a jian during the cutting video. I believe they said a video was coming

[@kronos661]

Jian is balanced like an arming sword.

[@General_Kenobi_212]

​@@eatonknass247oh cool, that'll be awesome to see then 👍

[@DrIownyou]

Roll your shoulder back when holding the rapier. Don't use just your deltoid and arm, put the weight into your back. Helps a lot

[@nicholasdelgiudice2263]

Preach! I didn't know this when I started reading destreza as I came from sport fencing. When I learned this, good lord, what a world of difference it made!

[@DrIownyou]

@@nicholasdelgiudice2263 It really helps, also learning to just shift your whole body forward while in the bind instead of always assuming that I have to move your arm to stab. Nah just lean/step forward.

[@Hunterhopefool]

Y'all are my favorite like...whole show on KZbin. Not just one person, but y'all's comradery is top tear and it's just dudes and weapons. Thank you!

[@bismarkeugen6881]

Just personally, I still have a great love of the zweihander. Great reach, more maneuverable than people give it credit for, can be used like a sword, mace, axe, or polearm depending on your stance. That versatility and ability to keep an opponent back with wide sweeps or long jabs seems really useful.

[@Ryhof]

Second this as someone who trains greatsword (Montante) and occasionally spars with it against other weapons. Very versatile weapon that can be used many ways as you mention, along with very good defensive capability

[@StressLevel100]

Can't say I didn't expect this video after you tested how well the rapier cuts hahah

[@henrykelso7349]

Love your videos including this one! In light of this sword, could you possibly do a analysis video of some swordfights in films, specifically the Duellists (1977)? It has some great rapier duels as well as some other swords, and it all takes place around the time of the French Revolution. Would be really interesting to hear your take on those scenes!

[@jocamar15]

The duelists does not have rapier duels. Those are smallswords. Rapiers had long gone out of fashion by the time of the Napoleonic wars.

[@henrykelso7349]

@@jocamar15 my bad. Still, would be interesting.

[@Hopade]

2:23 I appreciate how quick on draw Tyranth was with that comment. ⚔🔫

[@Stay_away_from_my_swamp_water]

Rapier needs to be compared to a sabre. The ultimate stabber vs the ultimate cutter.

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

in a straight duel? Rapier wins. Basically every god damned time. Specially if paired up with a vizcaina, as the spaniards always did. Note that sabres didn't actually catch on until the 19th century when guns became so common that sword dueling was practically a sport. There's a reason for that and the reason is the Rapier. Sabres btw aren't even that good at cutting, at all. Wider blades like the messer beat them by a mile on that front and its obvious why, if you look at swords or large knifes made for cutting nowadays, like the machete, they look at lot like the messer, certainly not like the sabre. Sabres really aren't good at anything, at all. Their only "advantage" over a rapier is how easy it is to learn how to use them. and the only advantage they have over a proper cutting implement is how easy they are to carry because they are much lighter. And that's precisely why they became common. They're easy and cheap to make, easy to carry, easy to maitain, and easy to use. Perfect for purely aesthetic signs of rank during the age of guns. Certainly not good for anyone who ever needed to actually fight using them as a primary weapon, ever.

[@huskiefan8950]

I would say the katana and/or falchion could give the sabre a good run for it's money in terms of being the ultimate cutter 😅 all in good discorse.....

[@Cr0wsMurd3r]

@@huskiefan8950 Tulwar... at least from my limited exposure.

[@alexcampos7953]

@@thespanishinquisition4078 there is another thing, sabres where cavalry weapon. Being slender is better when horseback, since wider blades can get stuck more easily. Sabre, because of the horse, didnt need a wider blade to impart force, the horse speed did that for you. Also, for piercing while mounted, angle your elbow up turning your sword hand down, that way after you stab someone, the natural motion will bring your arm down and get your blade unstuck. So, dont get it wrong, Sabre is not a lesser to other cutting swords, it was highly specialized and purpose made, for mounted combat.

[@evergreen9752]

What do you think about sabre(shamshir, tulwar, doesnt matter) + buckler(was quite common in ottoman-persian and indian swordsmanship)? Or perhaps a sabre dual wielding style, it was a thing in those regions as well. Maybe in Europe too, but i didnt encounter much information about it. I would say stances with kilic/shamshir and sipar(and their indian counterparts) offer pretty solid defence options. Would like to know your opinion. But of course you are right about rapier having advantage, it is designed specifically for dueling after all. However i think skill of a swordsman matters more and that mastering a sabre, as well as any other weapon, takes huge amount of time as well. I mean, "easy to use" can be aplied to any kind of weapon, except for most exotic ones, like three-section staff etc @@thespanishinquisition4078

[@kerbarbles]

I'm ok with the dex stat for the rapier. The conditioning required to use the weapon properly I would consider something you acquire as part of weapon proficiency. As such, the conditioning required to fight properly for the duration of a fight is a baseline. Past that point, dex is king here. The rapid, deceptive, and *small* movements used in actual rapier fighting makes this evident.

[@stax6092]

I fully agree with you. I feel like when watching the video they had just forgot what it means to be Dexterous.

[@FelipeMendes1999]

Great video guys, the only problem is that the subtitles that KZbin automatically places sometimes make mistakes on an absurd level, there were many times in this and in the other video about rapiers, that the subtitles confused the word rapier with another very horrible word that starts with letter R, maybe KZbin doesn't understand accents.

[@SteveFugere-q6p]

I was visiting Medora North Dakota and they had a French aristocrat, the Marquis De mores who owned a cattle ranch in the area back in the day. He had killed two men in duels in France. Apparently he would walk with a weighted walking stick to keep his dueling arm strong. He also didn't get a long with Teddy Roosevelt, and even though it didn't come down to a duel, apparently it came close.

[@S.W.01]

I wonder what that Kenjutsu master that tried a Longsword would think of a Rapier.

[@synthemagician4686]

Seki Sensi? I would actually love to see what he thinks of it too.

[@baeber]

@@synthemagician4686 yeah seki sensei

[@Qaianna]

He did a video on this two months or so after this video came out. One thing that stuck out was he mentioned how 'scared' (their translation) he was since it was a little harder to see thrusts coming. He concluded that you're not going to use big swings with a katana since when you rear back to do one you end up stabbed. He also wondered how useful a rapier would be to smack weapons (and the replica they used he seemed to smack his opponent with it), and was wondering if that was viable. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mH63pGaChrCnhNk to see.

[@snek4655]

I really like the chemistry between you three-amazing video!

[@TheTdroid]

On the point of games using rapiers for finesse; that's mostly a D&D/Pathfinder thing in my experience and has varied a lot over the editions. In 3.0 and 3.5, you can use Weapon Finesse (feat) to use your dexterity instead of your strength to determine your to hit rate, but not the damage rolls. Damage rolls still rely on your strength score in almost all cases, both with melee and ranged weapons. Edit: There were exceptions to strength to damage, but they usually came with conditions. There was a Swashbuckler class (Fighter/Rogue hybrid) that could use intelligence instead of strength for damage, but only against creatures that were not immune to critical hits or sneak attacks. Which was a lot of creatures, including all undead, all elementals, most abberations, all dragons and enemies with sufficient levels in Rogue or Barbarian, because enemies often used player characters back then. It wasn't until fairly recently in the grand scheme of things (after 2008 sometime) that dexterity to weapon damage became a normal thing, with the Rogue's attack powers in D&D 4e and the Unchained Rogue's "Finesse Training" features in Pathfinder 1e. And it wasn't until the release of D&D 5e in 2014 that dexterity to damage became a regular mechanic in the system, rather than something Rogues had exclusive access to. Fun fact, this is why Rangers are the masters of dual wielding in earlier editions. They were the only class that didn't need to meet the dexterity requirements for dual wielding, so they could invest fully in strength for maximizing their damage potential. Other gaming and tabletop systems usually treat their stats a bit differently than D&D. D&D seems to largely be designed around the idea that a character is meant to have 1 primary stat that most of their abilities are meant to be determined by.

[@RepressedObeseCat]

Thanks. I don't play D&D, but I have read GITP Order of the Stick. I think Elan tried dual class Bard / Swashbuckler, but I can't see him with many intelligence points.

[@SolomanPhenox]

Shad never lets them get a word in edgewise

[@duckymomo6472]

Ok gents, let’s cut to the chase. Give me that rapier/katana hybrid. I need the “Ratana” in my life. 🗡️

[@meeplfuse2682]

Not to be a buzzkill but I’m pretty sure the “Ratana” would just be a Messer or a Polish Saber

[@Immopimmo]

​@meeplfuse2682 not if you put a rapier blade on a katana hilt.

[@MaliciousMollusc]

Dude, I just listened to your Audiobook and I gotta say, I loved it. The guy reminds me of Solomon Kane and even The Doctor, from Doctor Who before it went bad. Keep it up 👍

[@AndyNocturne]

I wanna see a katapier. A katana with a swept hilt. Curious to see how the weight distribution would affect the blades ability cut where it would usually prefer more weight towards the tip to generate momentum.

[@RaderizDorret]

Funnily enough, the Honor Harrington series has swords like that originating from the planet Grayson: a katana-style blade but with a sharpened false edge and a swept, two-handed hilt.

[@vedymin1]

Swiss saber would be the closest to what you want i'd say. Swept hilt, two handed, with a lightly curved saber blade.

[@alexnavarro6941]

Just imagine that rapier in a Tercio formation, between pikes and arquebuses in the 16th century. The enemy had a hard time to reach amongst so many long-ranged weapons.

[@lyme1030]

Mh yes, more Rapier content. We're dining fine tonight my fellow ladies and gentlemen! ... Do i hear a Saber-video at some point in the future?

[@kh2fan145]

Ever since I was young Rapiers/Foils/Fencing swords have been favorites of mine because of movies like Zorro, The Princess Bride, and Pirates of the Caribbean. And now I've found a new favorite depiction of rapiers/fencing, being Final Fantasy XIV's Red Mage. They utilize a magical catalyst in their off-hand and place it in the bottom of the hilt to cast spells like a full staff. This has them building up reserves of magical energy which they can then spend in an all-out burst of fencing prowess clearly based on Zorro, cutting and thrusting into the enemy, before leaping backwards to a safe distance to cast spells again. It's really fantastic stuff

[@gameragodzilla]

I'd love for Shad and co. to go over some speed drawing techniques for European swords.

[@Mighty_Dork]

The trio together is really nice, everyone has something insightful to say

[@themusingox1635]

Rapier guards have quite a bit of variety too. The rapier I bought I have a nearly solid top of the basket hilt so it's much more protective of the hand than the one you are showing there. In fact, during sparring going for the opponents hand with a quick stab was an excellent way to gain an easy and safe hit, rendering their hand unusable for the remainder of the fight. They could still try to block with it but it was out of commission that fast. Also in real combat injury to the hand would weaken the grip and make it slippery in blood. So don't underestimate the devastation of going for the hand. Also you haven't really touched on slicing. That is the secondary use of a rapier after stabbing.

[@rolldodge9562]

When Nate started talking about death and dismemberment (starting at 2:30) the rapier's blade took a blood red hue. It was probably just the reflection off of Shads red gambeson, but it felt kinda ominous.

[@loma-ep7ne]

There is an existing Sword thats named "épée de coté" in french (and i dont know the english name but i would be translated as "side sword" or "sword for your side" ) and for me this is the ultimate sword. In fact this is the transition between the longsword and the rapier wich result in a strong, beefy rapier. Some kind of battle field rapier and I really like the spirit, like, thrusting ? As good a a rapier. Cutting ? A fucking beast. Style ? The class of the rapier and the charism of a longsword. And to add a good point, these swords were the bests for double sword combo, some even being made as twin blades

[@ApothecaryTerry]

I think the English name is "Spada da lato" - which, as you can tell, is definitely English and not a name we use because we can't be bothered to rename it 😄

[@emmanuelmartin5727]

The simple name means in French "side weapon" or "secondary weapon". Rapiers are great weapon (with drawbacks), very good at cloth combat.

[@reaemishi2278]

Finally my opinion is being validated. They didn't even go into the fact that rapiers take well with medium sized shields. Rapier and targe is as annoying as dealing with the long spear.

[@FallenAzazeI]

Day 1 of asking for a video of trying and ranking off-handed weapons/shields for utility and defense.

[@kylermccormick.social5786]

Saw this and thought, YESS! this was my opinion when I was 14, lets see how he defends my younger self!

[@Kasdor97]

14:02 Shad: 'Because the best weapon to fight a rapier is with what weapon, nate?' Me: 'A gun!'

[@Kasdor97]

And if that won't work, use more gun.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

Ok, now I really want Shad to do a definitive video on arming sword weight. With Adam Savage’s video including an arming sword of only 0.5 kilos, going against common knowledge, I am far more confused and less confident about arming swords now. Considering that Adam wasn’t that surprised by the light, early arming sword, I now feel like seeing if I can make a sword of that weight, but don’t know whether it would be authentic or not.

[@Maehedrose]

I love the rapier. Though I fight best with paired short blades, my favorite weapon to wield is the rapier (though I could never get used to using Main Gauche alongside it, I trained so long with paired swords that the different lengths threw me off).

[@remeris9061]

That bold guy is neat, in terms of delivering info and performing examples Great fellar

[@MrJakedog104]

If we were quantifying deadliness by number of bodies stacked, I would argue the military saber probably takes the cake. But I do agree a stab from a rapier is probably the most consistently lethal.

[@thei3igtasty572]

God I just love you guys. I feel like you're just three mates just being nerds like us all. I love it. I love it. I love it. I can always tune in randomly and just get lost in your videos

[@estavel117]

YES one of my favorite sword-types!

[@_theoriginalb4handles_Genflag]

Hey! Thats the rapier I used to sword fight with in a 30 Years War reenactment group years ago. Not HEMA, no non-period equipment or clothes allowed so our swords were dulled to reduce risk. Thats a great sword, and you're right its slightly heavy for a rapier, but only by a couple oz.

[@Aquilenne]

That's very brave. I'd be terrified to fence without a modern mask, the danger of thrusts to the eye happening seem quite serious.

[@_theoriginalb4handles_Genflag]

@@Aquilenne we had very strict rules and spotters for that reason. There was only one incident were someone was stabbed in the orbital just below his eye, but that was in a live dagger fight, in front of a crowd. Ironically it was the safety officer who got stabbed and it was his future wife who stabbed him, he was fine, but it did bleed a lot. Another incident was with the founder of the group nearly having the tendon of his right thumb severed in a live sabre fight for a different crowd. 5-7lbs of steel is no joke, even if it's blunted and you're wearing good leather gauntlets. He almost lost the ability to hold a sword, but he healed up and kept at it. I never was injured in the time I was in the group, getting hit with the flat of the sword with nothing but a linen shirt and maybe a gambeson on teaches you to get out of the way. I definitely wasn't the best fighter, but at 16 (it was mostly guys 40+, with a few older and younger woman and teens) I was the fastest and most agile in the group so I'd usually win through attrition or a fool hearty attack that had as much chance of them striking me.

[@RaydeusMX]

I mean the Estoc is one of my favorite weapons in Dark Souls until I get Ricard's for the enchantment spam. And nothing beats being able to trade hits without having to drop your shield to attack.

[@brothersbornmedia]

Thanks so much for the rapier video. I love rapiers and always found them to be under utilized and under represented in pop culture.

[@SA12String]

Let's put it this way. A firearm is a thrusting weapon. They don't generally slash.

[@davidhawley3337]

I confess that I grossly underestimated the rapier for the longest time -- until experience changed my mind. These things were/are _super_ deadly.

[@berserkshirtbear1271]

Deadliness should be determined by kill count, which probably would belong to the gladius

[@ANDELE3025]

Spear, early longsword and axe. If we count euroasia only, glaive/halberds blade side might wiggle in there too.

[@Cassimfan]

The weight of the rapier is actually something the late Christopher Lee talked about for his roles in the Three and Four Musketeers movies, stating they had real swords on set so after filming any fight scene they were very tired, mentioning how difficult some of the fights were with both the weight of the swords and the number of times they had to shoot the scenes to get them right, but sometimes having to navigate the sets with a real sword in hand and trying to not injure themselves or anyone else.

[@shuikai272]

Would have been cool if you guys could stand side by side, to show the difference between 28' katana two handed and the rapier in reach. Lest we forget the katana had a legal length restriction, so it's literally nerfed.

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

Correct, but there were weapon-length laws a great many places in Europe, especially throughout the Renaissance. Spain, particularly in Madrid if my memory serves (I may be mistaken,) had sword-lwngth restrictions that were addressed in schools of arms to the point of encouraging rapiers of restricted size over longer blades (it seems to be a legal restriction that became a cultural point of pride.) Such restrictions were in the books in London at least by the reign of Mary I, with swords of too great a length being confiscated or broken (there is a rapier in the armory museum in Leeds that features a telescoping blade, possibly to smuggle a longer blade about without penalty!)

[@A_Medieval_Shadow]

"The best way to fight a Rapier is with another Rapier!" *Sad Montante noises*

[@ericward8459]

Oh boy, Shad has become a dirty, blackened rapierist

[@Zoddlander]

One of my favorit movies when I was growing up was the three musketeers 1993! I love the design of a Rapier! and I also love the Kreigsmesser! I'm a bit torn between witch I like more! But most of the time I play RPGs, like D&D and Baldur's Gate 3, I prefer dual wielding(even dual wielding hand crossbow, it feels wierd, but it works very well in BG3)! But I think that is because those weapons have been miss represented in those games! I would love to know if Rapiers is a good choice for dual wielding in pairs or with other weapons! I don't think so! Because I think a combatant would prefer one free hand or a buckler/parrying dagger! I would love to see the guys test dual wielding those!

[@Death_Wish]

Stabbing? lethal? Ridiculous! If there is one thing I’ve learned from Disney Star Wars, it’s stab wounds are no issue at all.

[@argorebelgaming3866]

I read somewhere that the length of the rapier was often misjudged. When lined up properly with the opponents eyes, the last few inches of the blade almost vanished, making it difficult to assess attacking range. I guess that's why they almost always touched the opponents blade before attacking. I don't know how true that is, but it makes sense I guess.

[@gustavakerman2566]

*VERY STABBY METAL STICK*

[@EpicFiddleGuy]

Nate begins holding the sword at 9:22, and put it down at 12:17. Nearly 3 minutes! Well done!

[@kiberlord]

Wana see a katana with a rapier guard!

[@tylerrobbins8311]

😂 that would be hilarious and terrible all in one. It would function very similar to a naval cutlass though.

[@Atrahasis7]

Ah! A swiss sabre.

[@mrgoober6320]

Pausing to look at it, I'd say that's a very typical Oakeshott Type XIV. It was probably modeled after one of the better preserved museum specimens.

[@iantheduellist]

I'm actually writing a novel with the central plot point being the mastery of this weapon. No other sword can beat it with ease so unless you have a pole arm or a large longsword, you're sort of screwed.

[@tylerrobbins8311]

Not true the broad and backs sword in period were far superior as weapons. Thing is the Rapier excelled as a personal side arm while still being great as a martial weapon. There is a reason the small sword and spadroon became swords.

[@iantheduellist]

@@tylerrobbins8311 The Back Sword and BroadSword where much better on the battlefield, but in a Duel a rapier is king. We have videos on this, the AHF made vids where they but basket hilted swords vs rapiers and the reach advantage makes all the diference. Also, military smallswords and spadroons are quite effective against bayonets and some spadroons are quite beefy. It really all depends on context. Sword vs sword, the rapier reigns supreme.

[@vitorgarlet64]

when he said "while an rapier looks nimble, agile, and elegant, it truly needs strength, and is visceral and brutal on its purpose" the first think that came to my mind is how a great choice it was for kentaro miura to make it griffth's weapon

[@Jemonov]

Did nobody at home teach the guy in the middle to let other people finish their sentences?

[@djibrilfaye5515]

Truly the most deadly sword is the closest one to a spear, we have come so far it's beautiful

[@theseptembersessions_music]

You interrupt your colleagues to much. Let them speak. A friendly advice. 😉

[@zap9021]

I was slowly losing it watching them get interrupted so often while speaking.

[@NPC-nn4qe]

This has always been my all-time favorite sword. Rapier FTW! Great video!

[@ChristophelusPulps]

Weapon Finesse for a rapier in D&D makes sense because while strength is important for endurance, actually dealing damage with it doesn't require a ton of brute force -- just precise placement. I agree that a longsword should also count for finesse, though.

[@ANDELE3025]

Weapon finesse lets you use Dex for attack roll, not damage roll. Its there to represent being a posh git in a shirt prancing around since early nobles being "hon hon hon but we do not need armor like the plebs that use spears and axes and swords" since early duels (or as to loosely paraphrase what was written in one of the class feat locations, "more elaborate styles that rely on changing posture along with stance between strikes instead of relying on the strength leveraged from a wider blade", which is actually true as most dueling deaths in history came from either mutual incompetence or poison use instead of actual skill disparity as the members of the higher classes with enough brains to train often knew it was a bad thing to kill each other over forming alliances).

[@CorvinAurorus]

The rapier is such an interesting blade! Even after knowing so much about it, I've learned a lot about it! Thanks, Shad! Also, I'm now altering the way I run D&D. Finesse will now be a feat that allows you to apply dexterity to attack rolls instead of strength to ANY melee weapon. Let's see if my players like it!

[@Cr0wsMurd3r]

I think some will hate it... simply because it takes a feat and will nerf any dex builds in melee up to the point they can actually take a feat. Could be better to just allow Longswords used with 2 hands to benefit from Finesse... and at least some other Versatile weapons as well maybe, since you give up the use of shields, shields being generally preferred anyway.

[@gregorylieber8362]

I felt the "more civilized time joke was just for me" since no one on set acknowledged it

[@tatache5971]

Rapiers are so impressive and stout when you hold them. I had the luck to handle a few ones from the end of the 16th century and 17th century, some were real monsters. I have a pretty one made by Tod's Workshop which is quite a big sword.

[@chrisnewport7826]

A great education, my old Colt .45 1911A1 and I thank you.

[@PanzerkomandantFencer]

I went fencing for a year or so and really fell in love with the rapier. The fleurets we were using, although made out of titanium and bending every tiny swing, were imo really nice feeling weapons. The hilts on them were basically like a biathlon handgun shape and felt really nice holding and attacking with them. Our trainer was a particular fan of a very weird technique of stabbing the opponent in the back, from the front. And it isnt as hard as it sounds, with the stance we were in our torso was full 90° to one side or the other, so it only took bending your arm and leaning the upper body a bit to stab them in the "back" (now side). Cons: you are basically fully exposed for the time you are trying to do that, pros: if you manage to pull it off, the opponent receives 200 psychological damage, making it easer to fight them basically any time after that. also we had this tiny little girl in our group... literally couldn't hit her anywhere... my first loss was to her...