The WORST Miraculous Character | A Critical Retrospective

[@phoenixshadow6633]

A fan joke goes "Zoe isn't a character. She's a sentimonster made from Thomas Astruc's hatred of Chloe."

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

That’s pretty funny!

[@GiovanaSg12]

The worst thing is that the person is right💀

[@betmanjacv8784]

There is no proof but no doubts ethier.

[@blackchibisan8116]

This goes hard… and until recently I didn’t know he had an active hatred for Chloe. I let the art speak as the creators tend to be too close to the product to see the full implications of their work. I’m the same way with my own stories. Focus on the quality of my work and what is saying and take myself as second. Only hard world building is the exception to this and Chloe’s ability to be redeemed isn’t a hard fact of world building.

[@voidsthread]

HELP ?{!>}€{£{€{{€?!

[@YuriPlisetskyKinnie]

I saw someone like a year ago say that Zoe would’ve been better if she was Chloe’s older sister who had left the family and then came back and honestly I AGREE

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

I think that would’ve been great. She could’ve been a mentor figure for Chloé.

[@YuriPlisetskyKinnie]

@@ACriticalRetrospective exactly

[@LadyJuse]

Yeah! Showing what Chloe could be if she got out of the influence of her parents!

[@karentorresalfaro3371]

If she was older, like at list 3 years older than everyone, she could have affected the power dynamic of the miraculous holders and even be a little wary of them because of how they took the miraculous from Chloe (because she would care about her) and the fact that they have had years to plan how go take care of Hawkmoth and done nothing, maybe she could have even sugested to work with the police to figure out who he was and that may have treatened Ladybug's lidership and that would have been very interesting to see, specially convined with how the group dynamic was not the best in season 4.

[@voidsthread]

@@karentorresalfaro3371ooooo this is a really good idea!!! it’s really sad that we can’t see stuff like this applied to the actual show….

[@michaelsarmiento3362]

Zoe Lee isn't even a bee. She is a wasp. Wasp are the enemy of the bee. They stole their honey, home, and food. Just like Zoe Lee did for Chloe.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Definitely. Did Callimara say that? I think I remember her saying something similar.

[@adraabouji1937]

@@ACriticalRetrospective Yes, she did.

[@ashebennett7726]

And bees give us honey and are good for the environment. Wasps are pests who are a danger to bees who are the best for food production and very important pollinators. Wasps are enemies of the bees. So Zoe is the enemy.

[@scarletspider6554]

Yeah your definitely right 🐝's and Wasp are also different sizes, but yeah I agree with you.

[@usonohoshi6165]

The funny thing is. I don't think the creators probably thought of that.

[@riotkitty]

Zoe’s major flaw is that she is not a character. She is an amalgamation of other characters. Everything that makes up Zoe was already applied to other characters, most obvious being Chloe. More than anything, acting as a replacement for Chloe because Astruc somehow has beef with a fictional teenage girl. Since that is her purpose, that is all she is, a nice replacement that everyone in the show likes. Zoe will never be anything more because she was not created as a character, she was created as a replacement for another.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Precisely.

[@Audreyana]

They should’ve made her an over the top theater kid…like it would’ve been so fun

[@kmmk5022]

@@Audreyanaor even better, using her acting character, make her secretly an evil person.

[@zerodragonsaiyen3268]

Sad that her whole life is just a replacement

[@bellmell_]

​@@kmmk5022 Yes! That would be so much better than what they dis to her caracter!

[@WitchCraftTwin1]

Much like how Felix created the blood moon sentimonster out of hate, The writers created Zoe out of hate too. It was the hate of Chloe and just like how Felix fixed his mess the writers should too. Snap her from existence or just make her under better circumstances.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

That’s an interesting parallel! Thanks for sharing. 😊

[@scarletspider6554]

🤔Hey yeah your right that make a lot of sense🙂.

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

I think it’s more hate for the audience’s over-willing attitude toward and demand for a redemption, and hate that people liked the more nuanced version of the character in comparison to the earlier version. They hated that they still had her on the team and only seemingly put her on it for the end of the season battle in season two as shown by them having her getting herself kicked off a season later. They wanted their cake and to eat it and hated that they couldn’t do both. This “Chloe is irredeemable” shtick is merely an excuse made to do two things: Keep her as her one dimensional self and keep her off the team. They had to make a replacement out of necessity and it shows by this character thematically being an inferior Bee holder and it screams of “this was VERY rushed”. Less symbolic irony at the situation of the characters, less intriguing plot potential due to this character’s more inoffensive nature, and less of a real addition to the overall cast by being what’s essentially an amalgamate. The “I need to stand up for myself” arc of Sabrina (that she was supposed to have to begin with) and the “family approval drives me” like Chloe without either of those two’s long held establishment in the cast.

[@ifsbun__]

​@@thefrubblewarrior4678 i agree with u but it's worth to point out that the creator indeed hates chloe's character lol

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

@@ifsbun__ He says he doesn’t (he hasn’t done a really good job of showing that) but on the off chance that his words are genuinely the truth I’ve proposed this alternate theory.

[@jelly_toast0.3]

I believe it was Callimara who explained it well. Ladybug has a team of yes men. With Chloe as Queen Bee, Ladybug could have learned how it is to work with others who want to do their own thing. By replacing queen bee with Zoe, it removed Ladybug way to learn how to work with different types of people and gave her another yes man for battle.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Queen Bee was full of great stories. RIP Queen Bee (2018-2019) Gone, but not forgotten.

[@Amina-sm3jo]

she couldve been the perfect lancer type character to the team and now im mad all over again

[@sheilarikas]

It's a shame, I really love Chloe.

[@joeljohansson3615]

Zoé is just a shell of how Chloé could have been if she actually got her redemption. Like imagine in miracle queen, Chloé tricked Hawkmoth just to get close to the box and return it to Ladybug. She let herself getting deakumatized and hawkmoth hand her the box. And then she detransform and return it to Ladybug, aswell as the Bee miraculous. Then in season four the others finally accept her. Plus Zoé can arrive but be awful. Like how Chloé was before her redemption. Chloé gets akumatized into soul crusher and tries to fight back and everyone sees it. And they actually become her friends. Then in queen banana she gets the bee miraculous again. And she transform into Vesperia. Because we learn that the heroes can actually change their costumes! And now she's back at the team and actually keeps her identity a secret this time. And season five we can see Chloé helping as much as she can even without her miraculous. And Ofcourse getting the cat miraculous and become Kitty noir. With a better costume Ofcourse. Like. Omg what was that costume. And she can then stand up to Zoé who is the one becoming the akumatized mayor. Seeing Chloé get conclusion and maybe finding someone for her. (Sabrina or Luka). That would be more interesting than what we got. But ofcourse Thomas Astruc have a hate boner for Chloé and say she's more redeemable than Lila and Gabriel.

[@K33L4N-B3Y]

And the thing is, it only would’ve taken 2 bees to sting Hawk Moth and Mayura, she could have easily betrayed them and successfully returned the 2 miraculous to ladybug

[@krishnavinesh5638]

WHEN DID THOMAS SAY THAT CHLOE IS MORE IRREDEEMABLE THAN LILA WTF

[@jambon2730]

Chloe becoming Vesperia is so genius!

[@christ5431]

​@krishnavinesh5638he never said that

[@frankielovejoy9928]

They didn't just miss out on using Zoé to further Chloé's arc. They also missed out on two sisters giving each other unconditional love. Think about it. We don't really see a lot of sibling in the show. I think Juleka and Luca are the only other ones. Since André and Audrey are such bad parents, it would have been nice to see two estranged sisters learning to tough out the bad times together and actually develop a sisterly bond. Would that really have been too much to ask for?

[@brunettemay6675]

It would be asking too much because the writers want Chloe to be unredeemable and your idea will contradict that.

[@Dred0n]

​@@brunettemay6675And that's why we have Lila for that. If they can make Gabriel and Nathalie redeemable after everything they did then they can easily do the same for a teenage girl.

[@Leon-hx4ml]

@@Dred0n That's the problem by Thomas, he doesn't see a teenage girl as redeemable. Literally Gabriel and Andre's actions have been justified all in the end, despite them being pointless mean actions. "Oh but Andre let go of Chloe and his terrible wife! he's different!" He literally is on the third place of most akkumataizations because he couldn't say the word "no" to his daughter, but could divorce Audrey and disown Chloe. "oh but Gabriel didn't really mean all the terrible things he did to Adrien..." He forced Adrien to be a prisoner his whole life. Not even allowed to go to friend's birthday parties or class trips. Heck, he literally locked Adrien up in an insane asylum-like room and forced him to be in love with Kagami. He did that ALL WILLINGLY. Chloe will never get a redemption I'm calling it now. Thomas is too busy getting middle-aged men their not needed redemption arcs but not the ones for children (who mind you are in puberty).

[@Dred0n]

@@Leon-hx4ml exactly don't forget Gabriel caused so much chaos in paros for 9 months but yet he gets a redemption arc😒 Thomas should do another project and let other writers or zag be in charge of season 6-7 he wasn't in charge when chloe was trying to change as soon as he came back then Chloe became even more of a brat.

[@johnni-raecalzada2500]

I mean I wished that Chloe would end up learning to care about Zoe and view her as a true sister and maybe it could give a interesting message about how half siblings are just as valuable as full siblings particularly as someone with a older half brother

[@cartoonfangirl_1136]

Let's be real, the only reason they made Zoe have feelings for marionette is to have us shut up for hating her. Seriously do they really think we would suddenly care for her if she's gay or something? There's nothing wrong with representation, but the problem is she has no personality, no development, no screen time, not even foreshadowing. Honestly only think I like about her is casual outfit I think it's alright, and the kitty noir custome is alright too I just hate the hair and lipstick. Also Zoe's entire character exist because of Chloe. Why would go with a pointless character, when there are countless ways to ruin Chloe. They didn't even try with Zoe, instead of us loving her, we hated her, and felt bad for Chloe even more because Zoe took everything from her

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Hell if Chloe was the one who was gay and was revealed to actually have a crush on Marinette that originally spawned from envy that Marinette had loving parents and everyone else genuinely liked her, that would've been interesting.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 I like that idea.

[@fionna_cool_girl]

That crush felt so hollow because we already know Adrien and Mari will be together. There are no stakes in the crush or potential of it becoming a storyline. I wish she crushed on some other girl or something else so she'd at least be mildly interesting and have an arc of some kind. The crush comes out of nowhere just to make her even more different from Chloe

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

Why even have her be the Bee when Sabrina exists?

[@ItsTanuki0_Clock]

​@@fionna_cool_girl Exactly, it was basically the same as Nathaniel and Marc and Rose with Juleka, add two "implied" queer characters just to keep people happy but never touch the deal, at least in this case they ACTUALLY confirmed Zoe is into girls even if it was an "oh no anyways" kind of situation

[@TwilightWolf032]

Zoe isn't the worst character because *she's not a character at all.* She's just a plot device to get Chloe fans to shut up about her being the Bee Miraculous holder! She is a character created out of spite for a portion of the fanbase, so once she's done going through the "arc" to become Chloe's replacement, she has absolutely nothing else to do. This isn't a character, it's an afterthought.

[@Dred0n]

And in the end ppl still complain and want Chloe to be Queen bee nothings change in this case they only made it worse. Cuz we all see why they made Zoe.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@Dred0nit shows how obvious, petty and desperate Thomas is. We’re not allowed to like Chloe, a character HE created because he hated his own character he based off of his childhood bully whom he hasn’t seen in 30+ years. It doesn’t surprise me since he favors Marinette above all else because he said Marinette is his fictional “daughter” whom he had with his Chinese ex gf whose name is also Sabine. Thomas is gross. So it doesn’t surprise me that he gave Chloe a “damnation arc” to not only spite the fans who loved chloe (and still do), but it serves as some petty revenge fantasy. Thomas isn’t hurting anybody but himself by doing this. He’s not hurting the bully he hasn’t seen in decades in the slightest. Just his pride, his dignity and mental health. Not to mention, he’s hurting his show.

[@Dred0n]

@@ashebennett7726 He's a wierdo omg a fictional daughter and all the other stuff🤢 but anyways I agree like why make a character you dont even like that's your own creation. If Chloe is about his past bully why would you make a character about that bully? Wouldn't it further remind of what the bully put you through?

[@ashebennett7726]

@@Dred0nexactly. I don’t get it either. Why would you want to relive things like your past bullying through fiction when you should just focus on a healthier obsession. He is obsessed with his ex as well as a person he hates. Like it’s been 30+ years. Move on already. And as for his ex gf, he needs to let it go as well. They’re never ever ever ending up back together. Just like Taylor Swift was singing. Like Thomas, she left. She’s never coming back and probably is creeped out by him. Especially since marinette is their fictional “daughter”. That explains everything really. Dude needs a straight jacket, a therapist, a psychiatrist, a life coach, and a new career because he sucks at writing.

[@Dred0n]

@@ashebennett7726 well said but at this point I dont think anybody can save that man😭 do you think when Mari had a creepy obsession with Adrien was his projecting his obsessiveness with his ex?

[@thefeatheredbutterfly7335]

Okay but why would Zoé sound like a more compelling character if she was actually mean as hell? Like, worse than Chloe.

[@_osiyo]

She was doomed from the start when she only exists to be a foil to chloe. Because of that fact, she doesn't stand out at all. Her backstory is resolved within the same episode she's first introduced, shes the new holder of the bee miraculous, she stands up against chloe, so what is there to care about her character.

[@abiliv-lf9tz]

Not only did they randomly drop her mid season 4 They never gave her any focus episodes after that We never learn anything abt her other than She's Chloe's sister She's nice She's an actress but found herself always acting She has the bee miraculous And she's gay Maybe you might pick up on small details too like her favorite food or something but honestly I'm jus really disinterested in her character at this point :/

[@mirumiruyokouwuowo7068]

To me Zoe isn't as enraging to me as Andre the ice cream man You could change Zoe and Thomas Astruc's self insert with a random npc and the story wouldn't change at all But my GOD why is the ice cream man so obsessed with teenagers romantic relationship. He starts too many conflicts and his niche is so specific you couldn't really get rid of him without rewriting multiple episodes and it's just UUUUGHHHH WHY IS HE HERE

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

I don’t like André either. He’s very strange, isn’t he? 😔

[@TheSoulCalledZuzia]

IKR. And the funniest thing is that once he was like "hurr durr, how can those two teenagers be friendly toward each other, I ship them with different people!" and got akumatized *after* which (after being saved) he was like "you guys have right to interact with whoever you like!"... just to be obsessed with shipping these teenagers and being angry at them for not being with who he wants them to be.

[@mirumiruyokouwuowo7068]

AND he sells ice cream without a license, how dare he!!!@@ACriticalRetrospective

[@gracekim1998]

@@TheSoulCalledZuziayeah he regressed 😅

[@clarisacalderon9555]

I think what frusterates me about andre is they make andre worse to fit a plot even though stuff he did in a previous episode contradicts it. like Andre just wanted to cheer marinette up the first time he appeared where I understand why he got kindof upset when she lashed out at him like that and because he wanted to prove she shouldn't have such a pessamistic view...that one I understand. we see him give marinette a self love icescream. we see him give a luka shaded one to mari before. while it annoyed me when he missed the hint that she wanted a three flavored icecream so she wouln't be mentally stressing herself out....he at least gave a kagami/mari icecream, a adrienette icecream and a adrigami icecream. So we see he ISN'T actually putting that much pressure and seems fine with options....so what I don't understand is why they have him throw a fit in other episodes seeing mari and chat just hang out.... he seemed fine giving kagami/adrien a chance as well as luka/mari a icecream and even just self love icecream...so why is he suddenly throwing a hissy fit about marichat hypothetically going on a date? everyone knows ladybug turns chat noir down so I don't see what the big deal is. whats even more frustrating is even if we accept he did have a hissyfit about them going to the movies...he learned not to do that and that he was in the wrong at the end of the episode....so them trying to make him force his ship on them AGAIN later was redundant and stupid and inconsistant. even WORSE is andre NEVER says the name of who the icecreams might represent. he says character traits or physical traits. hair color, lip color, character ect ect...but he never ONCE brings up their names. AND when he made mari her icecream the first time he never even SAW adrien yet. Yet they have him say directly that ladybug and chat are meant to be and adrien and marinette are meant to be to their FACES?! what not ONCE had he brought up names before? when he never forced those ships when they were dating other people? even thogh he had previously accepted he can't ship like that and that its not cool? and ladybug had agressively been pissed about the shipping? like it was clearly the show forcing andre to act out of character to force certain info out...and it was STUPID. that is NOT how adrien should have found out mari had a crush on him before. sure I get maybe andre bringing up ladybug and chat says no to that because everyone in paris knows chat had a crush on her an it could have been a way to pop mari's bubble in thinking chat would always be interested in LB.... but even by the way they show his powers work it doesn't work because we know adrien and marinette/chat/ladybug are the SAME fucking people? why would andre not notice or see the marichat potential if he can see the potential in adrienette and ladynoir and they are the same people? I hated andre for it but I realized thats not even fair to andre...the show forced him to act out of character to fit what they wanted even though it didn't match how they had written him before... just like how the show undercut every hint of gabe genuinely caring by making him extra cartoonishly stupid evil to not risk the audience questioning things even when it doesn't make sense for a man who only started this to get his wife out of a magical coma. or how they forced it to look like kagami's crush on adrien was shallow and that adrien didn't care even though adrien is one of the most empathetic characters in the show and they had built up his feelings for kagami enough a love akuma noticed it because they couldn't find a way to break them up properly otherwise. even the chloe thing...we LITERALLY had a episode where chloe understood and accepted she couldn't be a bee hero anymore...she wasn't very happy about it but had acepted it...and yet they try to make her siding with hawkmoth due to her entitlment even though we saw she only agreed because he targetted her family and if she said no he would still have pollen?

[@redballoon9007]

The one thing that REALLY frustrates me about Zoe is that nearly EVERYTHING that Zoe does I can just imagine Chloe doing post/during her redemption arc. Using the Bee miraculous? Chloe could have done that as Queen Bee (and she does it better imo) Befriend/develop a crush on Marinette? Chloe could have done it. (Apparently I have to stress that this is going off of the Chloe from Seasons 1 and 2 and that this crush will be one-sided in Marinette’s part. I’m honestly not sure why it’s so hard to believe Chloe would have a crush on Marinette.) Zoe standing up to Chloe could have just been Chloe standing up to her mother. EVEN ZOE USING THE CAT MIRACULOUS COULD HAVE BEEN CHLOE! Just think about how powerful could it have been that after all of Chloe’s growth, the perfect way to cap off her arc is for her to be rewarded with the cat miraculous. It would have shown how much Adrien (and Plagg by proxy) has grown to respect and trust Chloe as Queen Bee and as his childhood friend. And with Alya, we as the audience can reflect on how far Chloe has come with Alya going from being Chloe’s enemy, to a teammate/friend to temporary partner/friend. Even with Chloe herself, she (and us the audience) can reflect on how she went from being a bully wanting to be useful, to having friends and working along side her idol to being the secondary protector of Paris even if for a little bit. The story literally writes itself and it would have had so much more depth and pay off than anything involving Zoe….BUT INSTEAD WE JUST GET FREAKING ZOE- Every time I look at Zoe, I’m painfully reminded of what could have been which is the EXACT opposite of what you want from a replacement character.

[@mazkeraid4039]

I could do without shipping Chloe with Marinette part, but I agree with the rest.

[@jenson2006]

Yeah I could see that but sadly that will never happen

[@yazminyari]

OML YES! I especially wanted to see more of Chloe and Adrian's relationship as childhood friends who know of each other's vulnerability. Because to me Nino never felt like how Alya is to Marinette as the best friend of the main character. Especially since we could see from early on how important Adrian's friendship was to Chloe it would have been so nice to see...

[@disgr_ace]

Honestly, yeah I feel like the only reason anyone likes Zoe is bc she’s written to be likeable but like as much as we can like her, and I do since she’s here, she was completely unnecessary

[@redballoon9007]

@@mazkeraid4039 It doesn’t have to fully happen. It can be like in the show where Chloe confesses but Marinette rejects her (because of Adrien) but Chloe knows Marinette supports her. (And we get queer rep)

[@gracekim1998]

She’s not a bad character but I WAS annoyed her existence is just to replace Chloe and she…doesn’t have a lot of depth 😅 and yeah it’s obvious Audrey cheated on Andre when she left Chloe 😂 It’s still weird that they don’t address her dad😅

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

They really should.

[@usonohoshi6165]

It's very clear why she was made. But what is annoying is how LAZY and badly executed it was. They didn't just do Chloe dirty. But they also did Zoey dirty.

[@gracekim1998]

@@usonohoshi6165yeah and I admit I do like her design 😅

[@Owell_Owl]

@@gracekim1998 she does not replace chloe

[@lasercraft32]

The thing that always gets me is just how _toxic_ Miraculous Ladybug feels sometimes... Like, often times shows will have characters to antagonize the main characters. There will sometimes be that bully character you're supposed to not like. But this show takes it a step FURTHER. They have characters like Chloe and Lila, who you are _supposed_ to hate. Not just dislike, but actually HATE. They _want you to hate these literal teenagers._ It just exudes this toxic aura, having manipulative characters like Lila, and a clear hatred towards Chloe (who _should_ be treated as a sympathetic character), in this _actual kids show._ The writers (mostly Astruc) are wearing their biases on their sleeve. Not to mention the refusal to allow Chloe to be redeemed, but then let a literal terrorist like Gabriel get off scott free.

[@animeuploader4992]

What I've learned is never associate age with hiw redeemable a character is

[@JuniorGustabo]

The writing of this show is a mess.

[@niffytheniffler]

They should have just given Chloe a redemption arc. The addition of Zoe didn’t really make sense to me (it felt sudden and out of place).

[@danielmonteiro9942]

The problem with Zoé is that she's an only-purpose character, and she has no right to flounder around the cast anymore since... she's useless now, she dragged Chloé down the mud and is the permanent Queen Bee replacement, and they're going to do nothing with her in S6 because she has no meaning now, and everything that COULD have made her interesting was completely forgotten by the writing team. I would use Zoé as a contrast of who Chloé was against how she is in S4. Just imagine, Zoé and Mr. Lee coming to Paris to demand that Audrey comes back to New York (because she was in Paris ONLY for Gabriel's runway and nothing else) and Chloé, seeing the prick that she was at the start of the school year in Zoé and wanting her to do better, tries to say "drop the act, you don't need to change yourself to 'appease' mom", but, Zoé, who sees Audrey as too perfect to commit mistakes, would thorw a massive tantrum, and bada-bing, bada-boom, Sole Crusher. Then, after Ladynoir saves Zoé from Hawk Moth, Chloé, after reminiscing a lot about how Zoé reminds her a lot of herself in previous school years and how she really started tlo change once she got the bee miraculous, would repeat the same phrase that led to Sole Crusher, complementing that with how she got the bee miraculous and how much she has changed with it and her recent Miracle Queen akumatization, and then, after the half-sisters say their goodbyes, Chloé would tell Marinette that she wants to be Queen Bee again and end of episode (I'd keep Miracle Queen as an episode but when Chloé realizes - at the same time, must I say - that Marinette's Ladybug and that most of the heroes are from her friend circle, with Viperion being Mari's boyfriend and Ryuko being Adrien's girlfriend, she wouldn't be so willing to fight the heroes anymore, to the point of breaking her mental bond with Chrysalis). EDIT: My God, how terribly structured this was! Never making long comments on my phone again. Also took out the Hawk Moth part due to changes on my version of Miraculous' plot leading to Gabriel redeeming himself in S2.

[@ToasytBread]

WRITE A FANFICTION MY GUY GEEZ THAT'S SO GOOD 😭

[@braylin5003]

They should have moved Chloe to New York in season 4, at least that would make Zoe and Lila shine by their own. As without Chloe, Lila would be the one creating conflict in the classroom as well as being an Ally to Monarch. As for Zoe, she would be able to be her own character without relying on " look everybody, Chloe is bad, Zoe is good" in every interaction they have.

[@rosamontano6744]

My favorite part about Zoe is how she is Chloe stepsiater on her mother's side ... But then gets "taken in" by Andre because... She likes him better? 😅 Like that's now how the law works but so much wrong with the last season and law that i almost got an aneurysm thinking THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!!

[@riotkitty]

I was flabbergasted, cause isn’t there a Mr. Lee still alive in London? Why would she get taken in by her stepfather who she’s only known for a couple of months tops 😅 she should’ve gone back to London. Andre is about to have the balls sued out of him for what amounts to a kidnapping.

[@gracekim1998]

Correction: not step sister, HALF sister because they share the same mother meaning the mother cheated on Chloé’s dad while MARRIED

[@ariichan-07]

just think about, your own father accepts your half sister and loves her as his own even though its from his wife's cheating, before he loves you, his own children

[@gracekim1998]

@@riotkitty London?🤔 um I thought she’s from New York 😅

[@rabiahbosriali4218]

It’s really telling that in a video that’s supposed to be about Zoe, you can only talk more about Chloe.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Yeah, but that’s just the thing. Zoé can’t stand on her own as a character. Her very existence leans on someone else, making it impossible to distinguish her.

[@saffyesperas2278]

Zoe is not nice when she insults her sister at her worse and then acts like she didn’t in the next seen. You can point out someone’s flaws without insulting them. She could have just followed up with “to be honest, you did mess up by showing your identity to everyone and that got you in trouble.” Then Ladybug would say, “You did trust the wrong person.” Then Chloe would yell at Ladybug and Zoey and explain that, “she wanted to help her parents, but Ladybug chose someone else for the job and ignored her request to help her parents”. Zoey could then use Vemon to paralyze Chloe and Ladybug could purify the Akuma and Amok after helping Cat Noir fight the Amok with Zoey. After saving the day with Ladybug, Zoey asks her if what Chloe said was true. Ladybug does not tell her yet and lies to Zoey and tell her not to worry about it. Even though, she does not listen to Ladybug, Zoey tells her, “okay” and talks to Chloe about the situation, but tells her that she heard it from Vesparia the story of Ladybug and Chloe says it is true and secretly told Zoey to not idolize Ladybug like she did because your heroes disappoint you even in your time of need. Their relationship builds from there and Zoey would be a little bit more relatable than she is now. I know Chloe would not do the same, but she is supposed to be the “bully”, but Zoey is supposed to be kind, sweet, and understanding and insulting her sister while she is Vesperia is the writer’s mistake for making her a believable nice character.

[@GiovanaSg12]

This isn't the first time it's happened, it seems that the writers have a tendency to diminish one character to exalt another, this most often happens with Ladybug and Cat Noir, most of the time discarding Cat Noir/Adrien to give more prominence to Ladybug/Marinette when she didn't even deserve it, an example is the end of season 5, now it's the same thing with Zoé and Chlóe with them making Chlóe the worst person in the world and Zoé a saint in the most forced way possible

[@spiritpetals]

The more I learn about ML through videos, the more I sympathize with the show's actual writing team. It's so clear that they wanted to do more with this series and the one thing stopping them from doing it is Astruc's childishness. I don't fault Astruc for not liking a character that's supposedly based off of his own personal childhood bullies or something, but just like with the rest of the show, he should have just... not put so much of himself into it? He treats Chloe like she's a real ass person who needs to be punished for being terrible, not just in the show but outside of it too, and it's so goddamn embarrassing to see a grown man with actual children act this way about a fictional character he created! Which is the most ironic thing about Zoe's and Chloe's relationship I think. With how emotionally invested Astruc seems to be about Chloe, she'll always be a better character than Zoe. Zoe was created specifically to replace Chloe and does so in the most shallow and superficial way possible, even down to her own fucking name. If Astruc really wanted audiences to see Zoe as a better character more deserving of attention and affection, he should have invested emotionally into her the same way he did for Chloe and Marinette since that's the only way female characters seem to get any level of quality writing from him.

[@usernotfound_____yet]

Imo zoe's major flaw that prevents her from becoming an interesting is that she doesn't really add anything interesting to the story; she's the nice chloe but without the redemption arc that she needs to make her character actually meaningful. Even her interactions with chloe feel hollow since they barely know each other (unlike chloe and Adrien/Sabrina).

[@Owell_Owl]

@@usernotfound_____yet she has the same purpose as every single other side character

[@eglol]

Fr, she doesn't do anything that actually is interesting or matters

[@usernotfound_____yet]

@@Owell_Owl And that is bad since she is supposed to be more important than them.

[@Owell_Owl]

I do think she is i mean she's has been through emotional abuse and she also used tge cst miraculous and has a crush on marinette and also plagg just seems to have a preferance for holders he's like since your a blonde, rich , emotionally abused kid here's the cat miraculous

[@gracekim1998]

Your suggestions for improving Zoe’s character is cool❤ it’s a really shame they didn’t do something like that, I mean the fact that Zoé was worried about becoming a bee holder for Chloé’s sake could have led to more conflict 😅

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

I’m really glad you liked them. 😊

[@inesatt1313]

I would have loved that Zoé became a shoulder to lean on for Chloé, especially since their mom doesn't show much love to them,only their dad does and that they can bond on

[@dylanbouffard5437]

I am still in agony over losing Chloe. She was the best bee you ever could see. (Ha) Her sass and sarcasm could have been perfect for the team.

[@eglol]

She was the best. Our perfect kind of queen. Losing her pristine smile and cocky gleam... Is one of the most tragic of all tragedy.

[@Noir_Edits2010]

Zoe is a cake without the icing,a room without windows,a book without a story,a town without people Total useless

[@Owell_Owl]

@@Noir_Edits2010 so is about 80% of characters

[@Noir_Edits2010]

@@Owell_Owl nah...they have personality

[@Owell_Owl]

@@Noir_Edits2010 well i mean most of The characters in the show have the level of importance like removing her is just as easy as removing rose mylene Ivan Marc Sabrina and so on

[@Noir_Edits2010]

@@Owell_Owl ivan is absolutely useless...

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Cake without icing or frosting? Ohh lord. That’s bad.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Also it’s disturbing how much Zoe’s face looks like Marinette’s. Extremely disturbing! 🤢🥶

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

I wonder if they copied Marinette’s face and made Zoé from it.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@ACriticalRetrospectiveOh my god. If they did! That is fricken lazy! Especially considering Zoe is supposed to be Chloe’s sister. 😅

[@Dred0n]

​@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivianmaybe that's why ppl thought Zoe was Mari and Adrien's daughter from the future😂😂😂

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@Dred0n Ohh god. That would explain a lot! 😆😅

[@Mapleleaf865]

I thought she looked a lot like Emily as well

[@betmanjacv8784]

Zoe shloud have been introduced in the same episode as her mother in Style Queen, maybe in that way we could have seen Chloe and Zoe bonding as sister, and could have worked well for Chloe's redemption arc, but Thomas Astruc hates Chloe with a passion so fuck it. 😥

[@christ5431]

Thomas wrote Chloé rédemption arc

[@usonohoshi6165]

The sad thing is... I can see her potential. Wasn't this the season that Hawkmoth got REALLY cloee to finding out who are the miraculous holders? She and Alya (and even when Adrien and Mari switch places) could have started the trend of people taking turns using a particular miraculous. They can even limit it with only two or three people for one miraculous. This would help keep Hawkmoth at bay. They can even have each person using a particular miraculous where they help each other grow and develop in different ways.

[@Howlabunga]

While I don’t actually mind Zoe as a character, I do find it weird how apparently everyone thinks she’s pointless and yet there’s a ton of MarinetteXZoe stuff on the internet. I am very confused by this.

[@usernotfound_____yet]

This is a common thing in most Fandoms. Where you'll find a portion of people obsessing over a ship without caring about the plot or how the ship affects it.

[@hypersonic2.060]

Only because they just wanted to see a lesbian relationship •-•, if this was Alix (or any other character) confessing her love to Marinette, they would’ve been a lot of AlixXMarinette stuffs. They don’t realize that just making Zoe gay her personality trait isn’t a good thing at all.

[@Angi3_6]

I think it’s because there is so little in canon for Zoe, it is very easy to project onto her.

[@Howlabunga]

@@Angi3_6 I was actually confused by why there’s so much shipping art of Marinette and this character that almost everyone deems unnecessary.

[@riotkitty]

Quite a few cases where I’ve seen that while characters might be regarded as disposable, they aren’t for fanart as for a pointless character, it is easy to draw your own canon onto em. Either that or they have a good design

[@Roxie_ET]

What infuriates me the most is that Zoe being the Bee holder now just feels like they went "Wait, Chloe getting a redemption arc and growing from a selfish bully into a hero?! Nah! Let's kick her out and replace her with a kind and positive version of her bc only GOOD people deserve to have happy story arcs!" Not assuming that's what the writers were thinking ofc, but that's how it feels. Gosh it was so frustrating to see an arc with so much potential be suddenly reverted, especially after watching Chloe have that chance at a better life be ripped out of her hands.

[@mahlicaajaib5231]

Astruc even said mean people will never deserve a miraculous, ignoring all the scenes that he wrote. He chose to revert her back to a bully and make her much worse than how she was originally. No reason why she couldn't become nicer, like Zoe, if only a bit smug

[@dspace4514]

I remember around the time when we didn't even know Zoe's name, people were speculating that she was future Chloé, because there was also a confirmation that a character from the future was going to appear.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

They did say that, didn’t they? Who was this fabled “character from the future”? Did they ever reveal it?

[@gracekim1998]

And then that didn’t even happen 😅

[@MusLaboratoris]

The fact that you cannot speak about Zoe without mentioning Chloe confirms how little of her own she is. There are characters which have less screen time than her, but they are able to stand on their own way more (e.g. Marc). Zoe grown on me in season 5 - now I'm considering her more like a wasted potential rather than some sort of insulting crap.

[@SkSkNutella]

I really do hope we learn more about Zoe in S6. I like her but I know 95% of other people don’t bc of how forced she was. Also getting a miraculous the SECOND episode after she was introduced is just so forced as well.

[@TheGreenThunder1607]

I wish they just would've at least given the bee miraculous to some already established character, like Aurore. Or have a little Mini arc where whenever they need the Bee, Mari uses it herself but constantly using two miraculouses puts a strain on her

[@logicaldreamer9641]

I still think she should have been a villain. Her backstory fits with lila perfectly, and they should have paired them up. Plus with her as a villain, she could have put Chloe in her place so Chloe can be humbled and realize her wrong doings and maybe make the effort to change because SHE wants to not because others do. Granted, we got her to hit rock bottom at the end of season 5, but still. I think villain Zoe would have made her more interesting than "girl stands up to bully" because they already had that with Marinette

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

Zoey's problem is she's not w character. She's essentially a plot device replacement that Thomas expects us to accept and praise which is the worst possible thing you can do to your audience; FORCE them to accept 'change' for personal validation vs the benefit of the story.

[@aquagirlcc9115]

Zoe is nice, attentive, sympathetic and more, but nothing at the same time. Her existence is pointless. The only thing it adds to the story is a new superheroine that nobody asked for. Her personality is comparable to the one of a potato. Her crush on Marinette is just random, and only exists to pretend that the creators care about representativity, while JulRose was never cannonised on the show. Her and Chloe have no chemistry. Their moments are boring, and add nothing to their character. Her whole reason to be in the show is just nowhere to be seen, bc it does not exist.

[@GiovanaSg12]

I agree with what you said about Zoé, excerpt with JulRose, even though Thomas didn't confirm it within the series, he confirmed it on Twitter when the episode with Rose getting her miraculous came out (I forgot the name of the episode, but it's from season 4), it's just a curiosity that I'm talking about here, I don't care about the couples in this series, most are poorly developed or played like Félix and Kagami and of course, Juleika and Rose. The only couples I cared about were Adriegami and Lukanette, but that's already been broken up, so... Adrienette and LadyNoir only works in the movie (IN MY OPINION!) Edit: Sorry for bad english

[@gracekim1998]

@@GiovanaSg12we know he mentioned it on Twitter, the point is that it’s never actually stated in universe that they’re dating. Anytime you think it’s about to be addressed they go ‘best friends’ with the wording 😅

[@christopherbravo1813]

"Sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[@thepoprankings]

Fun fact; The idea of ​​a "Good Sister of Chloe" was there since the first season, originally it was going to call "Amber Bourgeois" And she was going to be the bearer of the bee miraculous in season 2, but they Discard it out and preferred to give it to Chloe.

[@cyberhero5559]

Can you please tell me where you got this information?

[@sadiesadiemlady]

Kitty Walker is genuinely the worst design I’ve ever seen in miraculous. Prove me wrong.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

I can’t. 😂

[@AngeLaurcer]

It looks so bad 😭

[@Owell_Owl]

For this is just mixed bag outfit I don't think it's the worst like the outfit from the bottom i think good but from the top it's like seriously what were you thinking how you call this bad look at simple man ms suncolete or however you spell it

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

The name was actually Kitty Noire. I think the name was good. The design however. I had mixed feelings.

[@eglol]

It looks kind of bad but I actually enjoy it

[@blackchibisan8116]

…. This makes me want to do a proper rewrite where Zoe is able to show her social chameleon nature, claiming to be Queen Bee and even pretending to be Chloe’s Queen Bee but actually being selfless and heroic while doing so. Passive aggressively lashing out to her abuse within the family by sniping and sneering at Chloe’s ugly personality when in costume(in a way Chloe may actually feel about herself) and Zoe getting to know her sister through Sabrina and those two alongside the butler helping Chloe letting go of her need for control that she got from her mother. She could still keep her dominant personality type but use it in a proper way as a hero. Her time as a bully teaching her humility and to allow others to contribute. But her sense of theatricality dominating her role as a hero. And by doing it this way, you can have Chloe demonstrate her humility in a way that can fake out the audience by claiming to be the same Queen Bee(Zoe) and making fun of herself to prove it. This would allow Zoe and Chloe to both continue to use the bee miraculous as a team, protects Monarch from knowing for sure which of them is Queen Bee, and allows Chloe to learn humility by keeping her return a secret while still embracing her ego about herself as a person and as a hero in their proper roles.

[@сільськаприбахана]

I will add that concept of two people PERMANENTLY sharing one miraculous sounds interesting (and since no one said that it can't be pulled out why not do that - it actually would be easier) And that Zoey looks like that type of wacky MC from fan fiction where they're a suddenly an unmentioned almost identical sibling to canonical love interest of character they're ship MC with

[@jarl-b_1124]

I loved her in the first episode she was in. I was hoping she would possibly grow from being bullied to wanting help Chloe be nicer. Then I remembered Thomas Astruc doesn’t like the arc part of redemption and especially not for teenagers

[@regularly_priced]

5:03 Yes! And maybe since Chloe has changed, her suit would change with her. Which would make it so people don’t know her identity like they used to, and she wouldn’t have to give up her Miraculous.

[@annamichal9783]

By this point Miraculous writers are just doing things to progress the plot without making it interesting. They removed Chloes redemption arc and instead added Zoe to the cast of characters. She could have been an interesting character if the writers actually PUT SOME EFFORT into it. They simply made her a plot device and started putting out bits of information about her that would make her better than Chloe but refusing to develop her story. RIP Og Queen Bee/ Chloe, we will still remember you for who you were and who you could have been. 🪦💐 Also: Great video, it was really nice and fun to watch =)

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Thanks. I’m glad you enjoyed it.😊

[@libramoon1582]

When I read that Zoe was Chloe's half-sister who's basically a polar opposite of her, being a kind and caring person, I thought she'd make a interesting addition to the story, her struggle of fitting in with her family if it means putting up a snooty facade to please her mother and sister. But given Miraculous's track record of mishandling characters....I have to agree with everyone who see Zoe as an unnecessary addition in season 4....not saying I dislike Zoe, but disappointed with how her character was handled.....

[@MeemahSN]

Zoe is such a missed opportunity. She could have been a foil to Chloe that also helped bring out the best in her. Chloe's goal has always been to gain the approval of her mother, going so far as to base her entire life and personality around emulating Audrey. Zoe could have been the push Chloe needed to finally start taking the steps to escape that mindset. Zoe could have been the one person actually capable of understanding Chloe's situation, and the one person who sees more than the school bully in Chloe. The two could have bonded and grown together, learning to move past their abusive childhoods in order to be better. For Chloe, she could have learnt to be kinder and respect other people, developing real friendships based on trust. For Zoe, she could have learnt to stop pretending to be someone she's not, and finally start to respect herself. There were so many ways the two could have become really compelling characters, but both of them were squandered.

[@Mialikesthings]

Congratulations on the new mic! I honestly agree that Zoe could have honestly be a great use of Chloe’s redemption and also make us like her more and give her a reason in the show.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Thank you very much. The new mic really helps.☺

[@alyssamay9237]

Writers: "Let's give Chloe a redemption arc!" Thomas Astruc: Turns into Gigantitan Writers: "Okay, okay, we'll just make it into a character no one likes!" Thomas Astruc: Sniffles. "Can you make Chloe irredeemable too?"

[@maryamsalah8709]

Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth/Monarch: "I feel an enormous amount of hate from a grown man towards a fictional kid he wrote" *making a butterfly become an Akuma* "FLY MY MEGA AKUMA AND EVILIZE HIM"

[@allannovak641]

The reason why dthis wont happen is because Thomas hates chloe so bad that i feel like he stupified the entire MLB community by making us believe chloe had a redemption arc but NOOOOO instead it was all worthless and pointless and he even mocked fans for thinking Chloe had potential Man Thomas is the worst writer on the planet

[@iwouldlikemycoffeewithanon622]

Every character in Miraculous suffers from the plot not going anywhere with their character (Luka, Adrien, Alya, Juleka, etc.) however this problem hits Zoe worse since she already doesn't have much character in the first place. She doesn't have any interest outside standard introvet things (ex. we know she likes art since she drew on her sheos) and we know she has a crush on Marionette but having a crush on someone does not equal having a personality (doesn't matter what the characters sexuality is). So by the show refusing to give her anything that stands out in terms of personality all that's left is her attachment to Chloe which makes the fact that she's there to replace her worse.

[@user-pt2mx1ch9f]

plagg rlly only gave zoe the ring cuz she’s the only one who could ever afford his cheese addiction 😭

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Zoe is essentially a nothing character. She's everything people wanted Chloe to become minus any of the actual effort behind it. Everyone wanted Chloe to gradually become a better person and a better hero, instead we get this boring, nice plank of wood who everyone instantly loves and trusts from the start and geta a Miraculous just because. Character was created for no other reason than because Thomas decided to be a petty child.

[@UnholyGrave834]

Your suggestions for Jessica, I mean Zoe are really amazing. For me, after rewatching Zoe introduction episode, she felt like that self insert mary sue OC you'd probably see in fanfics. [Y'all please don't be upset with me, I might be a Chloe fan, but at the same time I'm a fanfic writer so I pick up on these things quickly.] My suggestion is that Zoe would've been way better character if she was Sabrina older sister. [Before Zoe's appearance episode, my moots and I were theorizing about who she was related to and I came up with this.] Zoe's the older sister of Sabrina who lives abroad with her mother due to her mom moving after the divorce of Roger [Because the relationship was working anymore and she's thinks he's a pushover]. Zoe chose the mom and Sabrina chose her dad. Years passed, Zoe is on break from college/university and decided to visit Paris to see her sister and father. Somehow, Zoe learns about Sabrina 'friendship' from Marinette or someone from the cast and she decides to confront Sabrina about before telling Chloe off. Sabrina's conflicted because she see Chloe's 'friendship' as genuine vs how everyone else on the outside see it. During Zoe's short visit, Zoe teaches Sabrina how to stick up for herself and boost her self-esteem. She also helps Sabrina makes actual friends. Sabrina would distance herself from Chloe and by the end of the season [Season four at the time] she a whole new person. Didn't know where to put the Zoe having the bee miraculous, so I'm just gonna say she didn't get a miraculous.

[@taylornusteling8692]

Yeah, that sounds cooler and more compelling. Especially as a child of divorce, and others that can relate.

[@UnholyGrave834]

@@taylornusteling8692 Same. 😞

[@Just-_X_Side_-Ism]

U really think i will read all of this if u hate "Zoe"? Yes!

[@eglol]

Wow, that's a different idea, but it's very welcome.

[@auditect950]

I think that Chloé shouldn't have gotten the bee miraculous back post-redemption, I think it would have been much more convincing if she had realised she can't be trusted with this power, fearing the may abuse it again, and refuses to take it back even if it is offered to her.

[@zuza3377]

Zoe failed on so many levels. Because she is treated as Chloe replacement she's not allowed to be anything and that was the problem from the very beginning of her existence. Introduction is very important for a character as it's the first time we see them and the first impression is the KEY. Zoe's was ruined before it even properely happened in the show. From the trailers we knew how she looked. We knew she was gonig to be the new Bee miraculous holder and we knew she's Chloe's sister. A good trailer should reveal just enough to be intrigued. Zoe's introduction was weird. In her debut episode the did her entire character development. What was the point of introducing her if her entire arc is going to be one episode long? Her backstory. It's a problem of "show don't tell" a problem that I don't think needs introduction. Even if I want to care about Zoe's backstory I can't. Her entire backstory was told exclusively by her. No characters from the outside we're given to it and the entire backstory was told three times. At the very beggining of the episode we heard that Zoe heard a nice thing only one time. In the middle we heard that she was bullied but then she forced herself to change so she wouldn't be. At the end of the episodes she just tells this to everyone as if it was nothing. It just feels unnatural and has no follow up in later episodes. Zoe also go everything given to her too easily. She got accepted as a new part of the friend group really fast as if she always was one of them. She got her miraculous right in the next episode. She got over her family problems like it was nothing and she learnt how to stnad up to Chloe within minutes (until the plot forgot it and done it again). As for Zoe's whole purpose or rather lack there of, it makes it evem more difficult to care for her in any way. We all knew extacly what she was going to be "A nice Chloe" we got told that VERY clearly but it doesn't make it good. Zoe has a good civilian design. She is pleasent to look at (as for Vesperia it's debatable) but a design doesn't make a character. Honestly it's impressive as on interenet I've seen three parties about Zoe. Zoe defenders who say she's awesome and we just don't understand, plus "She's nice so we must like her." (It's usually the young part of the fandom that just watches the show and doesn't reflect on it). Zoe haters/antis who despise her as a whole and roll their eyes whenever she's on screen. The thrid party is people who pretend she doesn't exsist and live a peaceful life.

[@Owell_Owl]

Chloe is her own character what you have said is similar to saying it's like Felix is a replacement for Adrian

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Zoe is a character I don’t hate. But can’t consider her one of my favorites either. The best I can say about her is that she’s wasted potential. And no. Her having a crush on Marinette doesn’t make her special. It just makes her boring. Marinette already has a bunch of people who have a crush on her! Have it be someone else! Adrien, Luka, Kagami, Sabrina! Not Marinette! Ugh!! Another problem with her. Her name with the bee miraculous isn’t named after a bee! It’s named after a wasp! Wasp are not bees! Vesperia is not a bee name! It’s a name for a wasp! And the sad thing is. This easily could’ve been fixed. Chloe was Queen Bee. You could’ve made Zoe Honey Bee! And make her actually look like a bee! Because show writers. Vesperia ain’t it. Zoenette isn’t it. You failed. Miserably!

[@gracekim1998]

Yeah 😅 the fact that it means wasp is…um

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@gracekim1998Bad! Very bad! 😆

[@taylornusteling8692]

Yes!!!!! Honey Bee would've been a much better and more appropriate name.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@taylornusteling8692 Yep! Glad you think so! ☺️

[@rhishere2265]

There are people who trash talk this series especially marinette but when derision comes out, people are all like “omg poor marinette. Chloe is a monster. This explains so much”, NO IT DOESN’T!!!! It doesn’t justify her actions, hell, it doesn’t even explain her actions. Ptsd doesn’t turn people psycho. That’s an insult to people who truly struggle from PTSD. Even if Mari-Sue does have “trauma”, that’s still not her main motivation. Her main motivation is obsession and possession. If it is ptsd, avoidance and trust issues would be the explanation. I’m not a writer, but if you see movies where anxiety and ptsd is done well, you kind of get it. And you don’t ever use ptsd and anxiety as an explanation for psychotic behavior. Psychotic people, bad people, can just so happen to have ptsd. Even if people sympathize with her character, it is still irresponsible of them to cut her some slack. A criminal is a criminal. They should still slap on the handcuffs and take her straight to juvy. She needs to suffer the consequences of her crimes teenager or not. She is old enough to understand what she’s doing. They reverted Chloe's redemtion arc just so Marinnette wasn't the worst character and then deleted Chloe because they made her a second Liela, replacing her with a lesbian half sister just so someone takes the bee miraculous place. Then proceeded to make a silly PTSD flashback to excuse the creator's creepy obsessive idea of love, but it didn't help to cover up the fact Marinnette is a yandere mary sue. Trauma might explain behavior but not excuse it.

[@einmensch2973]

The reosons I dislike Zoe : - why does she exist . ( btw , I think the new mic is really good :0 )

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.😊

[@Owell_Owl]

You could literally take out like 80% of the characters and it would not make difference also no complained when characters like Rose nathaniel, Max and so on in season 1 were like her

[@einmensch2973]

@@Owell_Owl but unlike the side characters, the show tries to treat Zoe as a Main Character. She litirally has two episodes in a row that have her in the spotlight, there is a whole special where she gets the cat miraculous and then there is another episode about her where she has a Crush on Marinette that comes completly out of nowhere. Nathenial has one Episode where he is the main villain and two where he gets a minor part. But again, all of this is subjective - if you enjoy Zoe's Character , thats great but I personally dont really think her addition was nessesary or brought anything positive with it.

[@emiyuu5112]

That was a great video! Immediately upon starting i was like "wait, is the audio better or am i hearing things?" and i was right! The new mic really improved the quality of this video

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Thanks. I’m glad you liked the new mic. There’s more to come! 😊

[@WiFiDown37811]

Zoe is the exact reason why people were angry that the writers walked back on Chloe's redemption arc. The fact that the head of Miraculous made Chloe after a school bully and just refuses to give her a redemption arc because of that is beyond petty and just goes to show how childish he is. And now he's given us the nothingburger that is Zoe in a failed attempt to get us to shut up about Chloe. It's irritating

[@furiusnecroiris701]

Chloe is the only reason Zoe had even a minimum of Value, because Zoe doesn’t have a reason to Exit aside be a replace, all her arc is completed in 2 episodes and after that is a background character only with a little better texture

[@kadankindle625]

Happy New Year buddy!! 😁😁 This is the reason why I quit watching this show because not only that they destroy the redemption arc of Chloe but replaced her that's low to the lowest point that the fans are so blind and oblivious that they didn't know the truth of the whole point to the show itself. And I hate season 4 that Thomas Astruc uses Trauma to shut up his critics and gets even worse that he confirms that Chloe dies in season and no longer in the episode..I'm so done with Thomas. You know what? If Thomas Astruc and Other Miraculous Ladybug Characters and her father and mother don't want her then I'll take her and put as my protagonist like I did my story of Wattpad of Redemption of The Bee Hero. These characters don't deserve her and you know what that's why she runs away from Bourgeois Family and never comes back and gets adopted by the powerful insect King and Queen as their part of their eldest daughter and a hero too way better than Ladybug.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

I’m sure you’ll do great with her character. 😊

[@JuniorGustabo]

Link?

[@fionna_cool_girl]

Honestly I don't hate Zoe as a character, I honestly just prefer kind characters in general, but the scene of when she comes out about having a crush on Marinette feels so hollow. I don't have anything against her crushing on a girl, but they literally should've done it with any other girl. There's no stakes with her crush, we already know Adriennette is end game and the fandom is getting tired of the "will they, wont they trope". So it's not even gonna go anywhere at all like they tried to do something with Luka. I feel like it was a half hearted attempt to make her more unique? Relatable? Sympathetic? idk. It just feels so hollow. I wish she had a crush on another girl to where we could actually kinda care about her crush like I care about Nino and Alya being together.

[@selectivelysocial7117]

It's like "Kill your gays" but instead it's "Premeditated murder of your gays" so no one even gets to care about it. It fulfills the imaginary requirement of LGBTQ characters without actually putting anything meaningful or representative the show because the character doesn't matter and neither does the crush.

[@NearAir]

Are you saying it doesn’t make sense for her to have a crush on Marionette because she’s already together with Adrien? I feel like I’m missing something but that’s just how I interpret it

[@gracekim1998]

@@NearAirmore like it feels random and you know there’s already so many characters who like Marinette in this fashion 😅 Zoé could have liked any other girl that’s not the main character 🤷‍♀️

[@tacticstories7159]

It's really funny how they are trying to Ruin Chloé with a girl who just wants friends. It's exactly the same reason Chloé wanted to leave Paris, before becoming queen bee for good. With their dedication to ruin Chloé, they're shooting their story in the foot.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Very true. Zoe and Chloe are very, very similar. It really doesn't help Zoe feel unique.

[@allannovak641]

The reason why dthis wont happen is because Thomas hates chloe so bad that i feel like he stupified the entire MLB community by making us believe chloe had a redemption arc but NOOOOO instead it was all worthless and pointless and he even mocked fans for thinking Chloe had potential Man Thomas is the worst writer on the planet

[@anlonne8789]

The idea of Zoe and Chloe sharing the bee miraculous is great! I'd be a dynamic duo of some kind and it fits perfectly with the bee miraculous because it'd be *teamwork*, representative of bees (ofc it's not exactly accurate to how bees work but you get the idea-) and they could have new matching names, Chloe would not be Queen bee anymore (since she'd need a new identity anyway), but also because she's not above anyone this time (AND Zoe would not look like a wasp, bc what the hell was that???) I don't have any ideas for names but i think someone can come up with something. It'd be a way for Zoe to feel included and to be genuine, while Chloe gets to grow as a person too.

[@Fictionist10101]

Zoe is just an excuse for the downfall of chloe. It feels like chloe was split into 2 individuals a nice over the top chloe (zoe) & a ruthless chloe with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, which really suck considering that both ended up as lackluster one-note characters without the complexity chloe once had

[@ladypool1404]

Zoe is not interresting. She's a nice girl, that's it! It makes this girl really boring! Also, her heroine's costume is less stylish than Chloe especially her hair. The big black strands are not pretty and her braid is too simple. There's too much black on her outfit. Queen bee was elegant, her mask was cool and her hair was like a beehive; that was pretty. One of the best costumes in the show to me 🙂 She is only there to replace Chloe as the bee heroine. Why developping a character while you can replace him? Being lazy is more easy than being creative. Thank's for that Astruc, that was so nice of you to ruin Chloe's development AND not putting Chat noir in the finale of season 5. No respect for the fans at all 😒

[@whatslife2840]

Honestly, if Chloe had her redemption arc, there wouldn't be a need for Zoe. Zoe doesn’t add onto the story, and her hero design and name are represented by wasps, not bees. Wasps steal from bees, like Zoe did with Chloe with the bee miracle and redemption arc. And if they really wanted to make Chloe a true villain, then how about in Miracle Queen, instead of continuing to work with Hawk Moth, she steals the Miracle Box and goes against both the villians and the heroes and being a self-made guardian. That probably would've been very interesting. Cause instead of Ladybug having to deal with just Hawk Moth and Mayura, she has to deal with a villain who has almost every miraculous at their disposal

[@Iexist8003]

Zoe Lee could have been written better if like, Chloe was still being redeemed, but Zoe comes back, and Marinette sees her as such a nice girl that she gives the bee/wasp miraculous to Chloe Maybe Zoe isn’t as nice as she thinks, who lets the power get to her head Maybe Chloe fights feelings of worthlessness, where she gets akumatized. She could possibly fight Zoe in a battle *without* a miraculous, (Zoe wouldn’t be akumatized for this though, otherwise Chloe would just get timestopped/Reflextad/Whatever But noooo let’s just replace Chloe

[@allannovak641]

The reason why this won't happen is because Thomas hates chloe so bad that i feel like he stupified the entire MLB community by making us believe chloe had a redemption arc but NOOOOO instead it was all worthless and pointless and he even mocked fans for thinking Chloe had potential Man Thomas is the worst writer on the planet

[@Owell_Owl]

She's doesn't replace Chloe she is her own character

[@carnageseason]

I will forever sad that Chloe, one of the most interesting characters out of miraculous got straight up shat on.

[@thesleepyreader]

I just got an amazing(or just funny) idea: what if because of her existential crisis she's kinda depressed so hawkmoth (idfk) sends his butterflies but she sees it and not knowing what they mean she cheers up instead! But she's still really upset deep down so it can't just leave and whenever he sends another butterfly for someone else they fly to get cuz she's the most upset. So now she has like 50 sparkly purple butterflies cheering her up while the mane cast can just look at her in horror as she smiles sweetly whenever they ask if she's okay

[@lofthestars2088]

A problem I have with Zoe is that she is basically an 12 year old girls mary-sue-OC (TM do not steal) Like everything about her screams this. Let me introduce her real quick: Hi I'm Zoe Lee and I am the half Sister of Chloe from New York. My mom is super mean and didn't want me anymore so I moved to Paris to live with my Stepfather and half Sister. My mom forced me to be mean but I don't like being mean. So when I came to Paris I decided to change. Anyway I have short blond hair with a pink streak and blue eyes. I wear yellow ripped pants, a studded leather jacket, a light blue beany and a white t-shirt with a honeycomb Design, because I love Bees they are so cute. I'm also the holder of the Bee Miraculous but I am way cooler at being the Bee Miraculous because I am the nicestest and my outfit has these edgy angular stripes and I wear my hair in a striped braid. Also during the Story I get hold of the black cat Miraculous and I look super awesome during it. Also I'm bestest friends with Marinette (after Alya of course). So yeah ... also just a reminder there is nothing wrong with making OC's like this, they can be fun, but if a cooperation does this then things get iffy imo.

[@Markus2E5I6]

Don't forget "everyone says how nice I am and how I'm so much better than the previous bee holder. My stepsister is so mean but I still love her"

[@gracekim1998]

And her dad apparently let her move to Paris without him because reasons

[@sonymishra7658]

She is not even capable of making her own identity she is a queen wasp in reality through personality Zoe isn't capable of making her own identity thats why she stole everything from Chloe I mean everything Chloe started to change her personality after bee miraculous was taken from her but since Zoe arrived she didn't get herself proven again Chloe lost her mother's love & affection since childhood Chloe lost her father's affection & love and caring Sabrina also broke her friendship with Chloe Marinette/ ladybug - didn't try to understand the deep feeling of Chloe just stood and watch the show Catnoir/ Adrien - also had a believe that Chloe will change and at the end he broke his childhood bestfriend The list is quite lengthy but the conclusion is that Zoe is a queen wasp which is the most dangerous enemy of queen bee she steals everything queen bee owns And that is the same personality of Zoe a stealer and a cheater

[@Angi3_6]

Marinette: Where’s your accent from? It’s really pretty! Zoe: *in the most accentless accent I have ever heard* I’m from New York!

[@RanmaChan]

HATE ZOE, HATE THE BOURGEOIS PARENTS, LOVE MY CHLOE!!

[@nicolas._.2294]

Ok but listen here......she was wasted.....she could come to help Chleo with her caracter development while in the same time she could be her own caracter and bring more to the table....but she was just there to be chleo 2.0 and worse

[@SofiaDa1]

I’m So happy other people hate Zoey

[@scarletspider6554]

I agree me also.

[@animeuploader4992]

I've never had hate for a fictional character except for a few scumbags but chloe fans hate zoe because they believe that's what Chloe should have been.honestly I've gotten tired if people hating on this show.i do think it's wasted potential but i don't watch it because i don't really care

[@gracekim1998]

I don’t hate her but I completely understand why you guys do😅 she was ‘shoehorned’ in

[@ElTheEarthling]

I prob wont make something for a really long time since school and other things but ty for the shout out :D

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

You’re very welcome. ☺️

[@jillevers1432]

That's actually pretty insightful. Personally, I don't mind Zoe but hearing how her better personality fits with how the show plays out, and seemingly the better choice in being a Miraculous ally, I can see why she isn't the best character to add on. In fact, this reminds me of another franchise almost pulling this off. (If you haven't seen this and don't want to be spoiled, I deeply suggest seeing Dreamworks Trolls or at least study the summarize). Within the Trolls world and the new movie Band Together, apparently Poppy has a sister😕. The moment that was shown and the history was told in a rushed way, I am like "this doesn't work for me; I need more details." But as you said, I can't "hate" the new sister Viva because she's nice, fun, party-lover, social, and just a copy of Poppy (WHY?!?!)

[@gracekim1998]

Yeah the trailers needlessly gave it away😅

[@hnaw1360]

I mean tbf could have just had Zoe do the exact opposite. Have Chloe actually be redeemed and then have Zoe come in. Zoe is basically old Chloe. Chloe can be her own person and actually grow all while being mirrored by Zoe who is vain and mean and constantly desperate for approval from her parents. Would be an interesting dynamic having the new Chloe interact basically with her old self and FULLY see just how insufferable she was as a person. I mean it would feel kinda lazy with them just adding a "new Chloe" to keep bullying people but it's Miraculous. I doubt anyone would mind bad writing

[@karamixon5815]

Zoey is..... nothing😒😒😒 WHAT'S CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT 😒😒😒 WEAR HER... DAD??? Tom, where are the dads???

[@zayway4659]

Bro of all the cool miraculous powers they decided to just made Zoe a queen bee replacement. She could have got invulnerability,clout,sublimation,and even liberation...remember guys a group of people gathered around. Heard the pitch all thought about it and approved it.

[@kreatywnanazwa1557]

The thing is Zoe was only created to be Chloe's replacement

[@penelopevalle3202]

I have to say that ZOE IS JUST A REVERSE VERSION OF CHLOE 😒😓

[@starlaixystar]

I was just watching revolution and after this episode I hate Zoe even more than I did before. She hates Chloe and she lies in Queen of Banana by saying that she loves her. Well she never did. She just waited for the moment when she and Andre will be alone without Chloe and Audrey and of course she won. I hate Andre and Zoe for what they did to Chloe in revolution.

[@lorecava3883]

Regardless of the fact that I hate her, Zoe smells so much like a fake character, it's as if she's wearing a mask and she's made me suspicious since her first appearance. Let's think about it, isn't it a little too strange that she became friends with everyone in such a short time? I don't rule out that she could be an infiltrator, sent to get closer and gain Marinette / Ladybug's trust and then strike her at the right moment. I know my theory might seem bizarre, but I don't even feel like ruling it out...

[@JabamiLain]

Why should you rule it out ? Seen Lila ? I don't trust Zoé either. But you know what ? I'm done keeping up with the canon show. So it ain't my problem anymore.

[@benceszilagyi8442]

I'm not hating Zoé, practicly there's nothing to hate... It just feels everything she does would be way more interesting if Chloé did that, and it's frustrating the creators don't egnolige she should have gotten some character development... I mean, she appears, and the very next episode she is bee, and a season later, she is the cat (and tobh, that's not really a well designed costume for her, personal oppinion)... For Alya, it took 1,5 seasons to get hers, despite appearing way more, had more relevance and supposadly being the BFF for Marinette...

[@Luc84]

I feel like Zoey’s character could’ve had so much potential if they had more episodes dedicated to her and Chloe, like have her change your personality based on the people she’s around and have her question who she really is, like please, show! Don’t tell!

[@Imflippingout]

she's just a baindaid for the gaping wound Astruc created when he abandoned Chloe, she's not a good character because she's not supposed to be and never was, we should've gotten a Chloe arc from the beginning and Atruc almost started it but then he went bananas and decided he hated a FICTIONAL teenage girl

[@jonelrobinson4039]

Agreed! The writers just made Zoe as a replacement for Chloe. She has no character at all and is a mary sue.

[@steveseven3206]

Zoe is a bit like this bad fanfiction character introduced with forceps and zero subtlety but in this case it's Thomas Astruc who writes the fanfiction! One of the first things that shocks with the character of Zoé is that she does not seem to come from the same graphic universe as the other characters!

[@gracekim1998]

Yeah your point kinda falls apart when you realise fans write fanfiction better than this😅 I mean I have Chloe an arc while bonding with Zoe before Zoé even debuted in the show because I saw the potential 🤷‍♀️

[@Keith_Norman]

Critical Zoe is not a bad character because in order for her to be the worst character she would need to be a character with plot interesting dialogue and concepts she's none of those things so cheap basically a cardboard cutout that's a attracted to someone

[@hanin70]

I know I'm late to this but I saw it just now since this appeared in my recommendations just now. I'm seriously glad that I'm not the only one who strongly disliked Zoe, I wanted to see Chloe in her redemption but nope, they added Zoe instead. 😭

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Zoe’s just ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

[@hanin70]

@@ACriticalRetrospective facts 😔

[@MGory828]

The worst character? I can see why you think that. Zoe really is nothing. But I always remember, oh yeah, Marinette forgave a terrorist, and made him a hero instead of killing him! Also, your new mic sounds more interesting and complex than Zoe’s entire character.

[@ACriticalRetrospective]

Thanks! I’m glad you like the new mic. 😊

[@Howlabunga]

There’s a reason Marinette tried to forgive Gabe that actually makes sense. Since Betterfly showed that Gabriel could be happy if he moved on and accepted that Emilie isn’t coming back, Marinette most likely hoped that her version of Gabe would finally accept his wife’s death instead of trying to bring her back.

[@MGory828]

@@HowlabungaI don’t want to start any beef with you because I’m having a great day, but no. Just no. Even if Gabe wanted to change, he still is an irredeemable terrorist! Keyword: terrorist. How idiotic do the writers have to be to think, oh let’s make Gabe the worst terrorist imaginable, and then have Mari forgive him? That’s awesome right guys? It’s awesome if you want to waste my time. It took them 8 years to end this arc, yet they ended it in the worst way possible. Bottom line, Gabe being redeemed is absolute BS. Plain and simple.

[@Howlabunga]

@@MGory828 still, heroes usually try to see the hope in everyone, even terrorists. Before you use anything lie Joker or Carnage, note I said usually.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@HowlabungaHeroes know not to forgive terroists though. Luz knew not to forgive a terroist. Case closed.

[@helixsol7171]

Thomas Astruc is the same hack who wrote a comic about Marinette, a *_14 year old_* girl, walking around naked in New York in a cardboard box and bent over backwards to deny she was ever naked to begin with. He's never gonna give Chloe, his favorite punching bag, a redemption arc.

[@allannovak641]

The reason why dthis wont happen is because Thomas hates chloe so bad that i feel like he stupified the entire MLB community by making us believe chloe had a redemption arc but NOOOOO instead it was all worthless and pointless and he even mocked fans for thinking Chloe had potential Man Thomas is the worst writer on the planet

[@christ5431]

​@@allannovak641he never hated her

[@allannovak641]

@@christ5431 he sure as hell acts like it

[@christ5431]

@@allannovak641He never hated Chloe, it was all the writers who didn't like her.

[@despinasgarden.4100]

Zoey is like, the fift character with a crush on Marinette (Nathaniel, Nino, Adrien, that one sculptor guy, etc) they could had given her a crush on literally anyone, yet they chose the ONE character that we know is never going to return her feelings, because we all know that Adrien and Marinette are going to end up together. Imagine if she had a crush on Lila and then Lila manipulated her into helping her, without Zoey realising that she is helping a villain.

[@ladyviren]

It is actually so sad that they didn’t go the true sisters route. Like Chloe already had the foundation and Zoe actually had potential and could’ve been a really stand out character. But because of pettiness (which Chloe haters perpetuate) we got the worst story possible and it sucks.

[@animeuploader4992]

Honestly i just saw one video talking about how bad a series i had no problem with being bad and all I've seen is these videos i i do think the show is wasted potential but why are ya'll still watching i hope it gets worst if ya'll are just honna continue the three year hate hype

[@rosegolden8959]

@@animeuploader4992 dude be quiet. People are allowed to talk about things just like you're allowed to comment on a video you personally dislike. Sorry if you love the show, that doesn't mean other people can't talk about their dislike of it.

[@history4dummies2678]

Seriously, I forgot Zoe existence until you mentioned her. And yes, she might be sweet or kind, but I don't care, sweet character does not mean good writing.