The Worst Thing About Healthcare is Socialism

[@homewall744]

Force authoritarianism, then blame liberty.

[@S85B50Engine]

The problem is that the solution is in the hands of the problem

[@aliadeeb6859]

Well put

[@JackJackrabbit]

As someone who lives in denmark, this so called healthcare appears to be the most terrible implementation I could possibly have imagined. To me it creates the question, how in the world did you guys mess this up so badly. First of, for emergencies (like with the appendix) we literally have a special number dedicated to police, fire department, and medical emergency. Secondly, you don't sign up to a company for small things, but to a private practitioner, and you go there personally to do so, that means you know them and they know you, they have your files for your usual needs and so on. Thirdly, the taxation, I pay tax so that even if i don't need help right now I am paying for someone else's medical bill, and when it is my turn others will pay for me. there are so many more things I want to say but it can probably be summed up as, how the **** did it get this messed up on your side of the Atlantic ocean?

[@lights473]

The federal government messes up everything it touches. We could have had a functioning and efficient free market in healthcare if they just left us alone. War is what makes the government act radically. World War 2 created the stabilization act of 1942 that froze wages in order to stop wartime inflation but caused employers to compete with healthcare benefits instead of wages. And the Revenue act of 1954 codified tax exemption of the employer-paid health insurance which caused more people to get insurance from their employer because it's not taxed and so it's cheaper than buying it directly on your own. This caused the healthcare system to be heavily insurance-based which caused healthcare prices to skyrocket which created Medicare and Medicaid because the government doubles down on the problems they create.

[@lights473]

Also in Denmark, your healthcare system is entirely localized and your taxes are also localized which causes it to run more efficiently than if it was at the hands of the national government. The leftists here in America want to nationalize healthcare.

[@ExPwner]

@@lights473 well said!

[@JackJackrabbit]

@@lights473 Why is it so hard for them to simply look at what other nations are doing and learn from that? do they have to go in and fiddle with everything?

[@yamanosu9463]

@@JackJackrabbit looking at other nations is pointless. That's like suggesting improvements to a 747 by dissecting a bumblebee. Are there some similarities? Sure, but they are so categorically different that any attempts to mimic the fly is a waste of time. Scale matters. Walmart can't copy a local mom&pop stores business model and call it a day, things are different at scale. The reason America is so messed up is, in great part, due to our attempts to mimic other nations instead of allowing the states to function as their own individual nations(how they were intended).

[@adriangalysh]

Don't forget the HMO Act of 73!

[@broark88]

Veterinary care isn't technically much different from human healthcare, but is almost an order of magnitude cheaper. Because no one makes the political argument that animals have a "right" to healthcare, it's left alone to be just another industry - and it simply works. To that point, there are examples of human healthcare simply working in small enclaves. In my hometown of Oklahoma City, the Surgery Center of Oklahoma is private-pay-only and offers a wide range of routine surgical procedures from good surgeons who were just sick of the system. I found out about it after seeing my insurance pay over $30k for a knee surgery in a regular hospital system and leaving me with $7k in bills, whereas if I had just paid out of pocket at the Surgery Center, the total cost would have been a bit over $4k. That's the kind of thing most people could finance in a pinch, or cover with insurance for even less if only that's what the rest of the industry looked like; but as it stands now, going to a regular hospital to be faced with $37k worth of bills without insurance is a crushing blow.

[@LMB222]

Go back to the barn and leave the thinking to the thinking ones.

[@broark88]

@@LMB222 It's clear who's done the more thinking between the two of us.

[@marcusmoonstein242]

Here in South Africa the Medical Aids (our equivalent to HMO's) sit down with representatives from all the major health care professionals organizations once a year and hammer out an extensive recommended price list for all procedures and medicines for the coming year. The Medical Aids guarantee to pay the listed prices without argument, so any insured patient can go to any medical care provider who is part of this deal. The medical providers can charge more than the listed price if they want to, but the Medical Aids will only pay the listed price. Any excess must be paid by the patient directly to the healthcare provider. This means that potential patients routinely ask the medical professionals whether they work for the listed price, and will often ask for another doctor if they won't. This can cost medical professionals a lot of business, so they have an incentive to work at or close to the listed price.

[@stevetaxpayer6664]

Everything claimed in the video is true but there's a whole lot more wrong with our healthcare system. Specifically, in addition to the market forces issues detailed in the video, our healthcare delivery system (i.e. hospitals, doctors, clinics, pharmacies, drug manufacturers, etc.) are all structured and processed-engineered around the insurance industry) including Medicare/Medicaid instead of being structured and processed engineered for maximum products and services delivered at the lowest possible price like the way Walmart and Costco operate as retailers. Imagine how difficult and how expensive to would be to get your car repaired is every repair shop and every auto mechanic in the country focused on pleasing and were managed by those sleazy auto warranty companies instead focusing on how they can most efficiently deliver auto repair services at the most competitive price. To put it another way, our current healthcare delivery providers do not have to keep their patients happy and healthy, they just need to keep the insurers happy.

[@whatsup3519]

I have a question. If someone look at hospital with lower price or higher quality service it encourage competition. In that case what if u r unconscious due to a car accident in that situation u don't look at cheap hospital with good quality but hospital near u. In that situation is this out of pocket system works? Is it possible u can negotiate with hospital in that condition? Could you please answer my question

[@antyrak7905]

I live in the UK. Where it's even worse. Everything is NHS. Most of the time they say "it'll Go away by itself" or "just take Paracetamol". My step sister had a couple worrying cysts, especially worrying because of her father died of cancer. Once she even had an infection of her lymph nodes and she was completely ignored by the system. Even when she got pneumonia as a side effect of COVID. She only got antibiotics when she was in a really bad situation. Couldn't breathe and her oxygen levels were really low. Even then the treatment she got from the doctors was terrible. While her partner's sister is a total hypochondriac but she gets the best treatment ever.

[@stevegiles4549]

What a load of rubbbihs. Private healthcare is avilable in the UK if you don't want to use the NHS.

[@baph0met]

@@stevegiles4549 But it's expensive thanks to the public one. A person is forced to pay for the public, which takes away all the money he could use for a private one, a person using a private clinic is essentially paying for double the healthcare!

[@stevegiles4549]

@@baph0met Yep. And that because of that people who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford health insurances, can expect to receive treatment when they get sick. The UK spends less money on healthcare, but has better outcomes for it's patients. It's more efficient.

[@baph0met]

@@stevegiles4549 It definitely isn't lmao. What do you think is cheaper? Paying for healthcare or paying the state that then pays for healthcare? The state steals let's say 100$ from you, these 100$ could go to your healthcare but 20$ out of those go to the bureaucrats paychecks, 30$ is lost due to corruption and half of your money actually goes towards your health. I'm from Czechia, we have universal healthcare, I know how horrible, trash, inneficient and immoral it is.

[@stevegiles4549]

@@baph0met Study after study has shown single payer healthcare systems to be much more efficient. The UK is far more efficient that the US Private system for instance. And before you argue otherwise I suggest you go and do some research. The USA is home to the most expensive healthcare system in the world, spending an average of 40% more per patient care than any other country on earth; treatment for a broken leg in the US typically costs the equivalent of £25,550, more than 7.5 times the amount for the same treatment in the UK (an average of £3,363); the cost of treating a broken leg in Spain and Singapore is also high, around £15,000 and £10,396 respectively. Interestingly, Indian citizens pay the highest out-of-pocket healthcare costs, while patients in Switzerland spend the most on private healthcare insurance (an annual average of £4,956).

[@tommyss4l]

I have VA health coverage and I cannot wait to get on private insurance this year. In the last two years, I've been sick and hurt several times and every time I call the VA for help, they said, "either wait a month to see your local doctor or drive 40 minutes [Monday through Friday, 8 to 10 am] to see urgent care at your closest VA facility." My yearly exam got pushed off six months because the VA refuses to hire enough doctors. If I need to see a specialist, the ones with the VA generally say no unless you're old or have a terminal or life-long service connected issue. I couldn't even get help when I might have had COVID because the VA told me to drive to the main VA facility when I could barely get out of bed. The VA is great for giving me money every month but is terrible for actually providing it's mandate of healthcare when you need it.

[@autistic-lutheran-carnivore]

The VA is a good example but the better example is the medical tyranny of the past 2 years of COVID 19. Gov't epidemiologists like Dr. Anthony Fauci hasn't been right nearly any of the time. Gov't policies to mitigate COVID 19 had tremendous psychological effects like suicides, especially in young people & kids, plus masks were not effective AT ALL!!! Then we have hospitals isolating people w/ COVID 19 refusing to let dying patients see their loved ones, and later on it was just the vaccinated loved ones that could see their dying relative in the hospital. Add on to that, many people died alone at home because they either couldn't go to the hospital because the hospital was only treating COVID 19 patients or they were too scared to go to the hospital for fear over getting COVID 19. The gov't treatment for COVID 19 has been uniformly a vaccine (which might have questionable side effects) and gov't dismissed all other treatments like ivermectin. Now, patients that want a by-pass operation need to be vaccinated and people have been out of work because they had to get vaccinated. Believe me, the VA may be a bad healthcare system, BUT THE PAST TWO YEARS SHOWS THAT GOV'T HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING ON HEALTHCARE AND WILL IMPOSE ARBITRARY RESTRICTIONS WITH NO REGARD FOR CONSEQUENCES!!! Democrats should be so embarrassed by the past 2 years that they never bring the subject up again.

[@zachmorris-nq7uc]

Bullshit. VA healthcare is awesome. I get seen by specialists faster than my private insurance and there’s exponentially less hassle getting coverage. What i mean by less hassle is actually zero hassle because it’s all free. The veteran’s benefits administration is slow and a bureaucratic nightmare but that’s because presidential administrations from both parties dont fund it properly and have private subcontractors doing the work while they layoff vba employees. Stop lying about VA healthcare. Go ask any veteran if they prefer their private insurance to the VA. 99% will prefer Va to the corporate scumbags that run the health insurance industry. Tbh, i dont think you’re really a vet. Ive never met a veteran in my 20 years of going to the va that would rather use their private insurance.

[@tommyss4l]

@@zachmorris-nq7uc 364 days in the north end of Afghanistan on 07-08. Maybe it's different in other places, but the grater Los Angeles VA is horrific. My wife gets seen by a specialist with our private health insurance inside of a week, the VA took 2 months to get to me, and it took another 4 months for them to schedule me to see someone. I go with complaints and they tell me my issues don't exist, or it isn't a problem. I'm glad you have a great experience, and they've gotten better since I started seeing them 13 years ago, but I can't endorse my local VA.

[@01nmuskier]

2007- $350 deductible for a family. 2016- $1400 deductible. Thanks, "affordable" care act!👍

[@danielreardon6453]

The name of the act is almost always the opposite of what the outcomes are

[@mattcat83]

Don't worry: what with inflation all these numbers are going down.

[@staz8741]

@@danielreardon6453 the Nazi's are a far right conservative party named after socialism so, you make a great point.

[@chrisbrotherton]

Starting Jan 1, 2022, the No Surprises Act allows consumers to request a good faith estimate (GFE) for expected healthcare services. There are limitations as a GFE doesn’t require a listing of unexpected services so more rare and potentially expensive charges could still result. There are still gaps that aren’t addressed. All the more reason why the direct primary care movement deserves our attention.

[@sterlingbaune8911]

I have been a nurse for over 11 years. While I was working as a travel RN 5 years ago I used a health sharing group and paid cash for everything Healthcare. What I found was that insurance is more than half of what is wrong with health care. Cash made most everything half price or better. Hospital over charge insurance to balance the amount of people who can't pay and cost of dealing with government health systems.

[@LearnLiberty]

Do you think that same problem would be in the case of the private sector?

[@whatsup3519]

@@LearnLiberty I have a question. If someone look at hospital with lower price or higher quality service it encourage competition. In that case what if u r unconscious due to a car accident in that situation u don't look at cheap hospital with good quality but hospital near u. In that situation is this out of pocket system works? Is it possible u can negotiate with hospital in that condition? Could you please answer my question

[@dragonfire3727]

@@whatsup3519 in emergency situations patients are treated asap negotiating will be when the patients are fine and can talk.

[@whatsup3519]

@@dragonfire3727 what if they charge a million for the treatment? It happened in Covid crisis. What will u do ? U will be pissed of

[@dragonfire3727]

@@whatsup3519 if that situation happens a private hospital in free market knows that I can't pay them then they will reduced the bill to protect their reputation and can even give it free to improve their reputation think of it as a marketing strategy

[@BlazeGuitarLessons]

I like my HSA a lot but I wish they'd get the government out of health care in the US

[@DarkMustard1337]

Government is involved in everything, but as for healthcare..in what way are they involved that is huring healthcare...allowing healthcare to be for profit is what they are doing wrong,.

[@BlazeGuitarLessons]

@@DarkMustard1337 I disagree. Over regulation is driving the cost up. For example, advil had to be stored in a specific freezer at a specific temperature and handled by someone trained to specifically handle advil. They wear glove when they bring it to you on a plate. Plus, requiring insurance plans to unclude more things drives the cost up. State and federal laws have been saying health insurance plans need to include more and more things for years including yoga, seeing eye dogs, certain dance classes, etc. That drives up the cost of health care. Plus, Healthcare isn't cheaper in other countries, you just pay for it through taxes. In Sweden, the lowest tax rate is 35%. So instead of paying $300 a month for health insurance, you're paying that, but likely significantly more, in your taxes. The government has been getting more and more involved in health care and it's been getting more and more expensive. Instead of asking what the government can do to fix a problem, ask what the government is already doing that might be affecting health care costs to rise. If you want to know what universal Healthcare would look like in the US, just look at the VA. It's completely government run and total garbage.

[@JDoors]

Regarding Obamacare: It came at the perfect time for me. I was down on my luck, couldn't afford insurance, didn't qualify for other programs, but they had to cover me under Obamacare. I had three medical issues before I got back on my feet and they cost me nothing. I have NO IDEA what I would have done without Obamacare. Die, I guess? So ... politically I'm against it, but ... I kind'a needed it so ...

[@willstikken5619]

For me it had the opposite effect. My household used practically no healthcare services until after premiums had doubled, deductibles tripled and out of pocket expenses soared. What 2 years before would have been a non-issue became a serious problem after my employer insurance was replaced by the "better" Obamacare options.

[@SalveMonesvol]

Of course you needed it, healthcare is expensive AF. What we all need is to make it cheaper, cut the middle men.

[@JDoors]

@@willstikken5619 One of the many reasons I was against it politically. But thanks for paying more so I did not die when I had nothing.

[@UserNameAnonymous]

You should have been able to afford it. The reason you couldn't was because of government intervention.

[@willstikken5619]

@@JDoors What, not willing to die for your principles? :) Seriously though, you're expressing conflict over this but don't seem to accept that the problem the government saved you from one that they created. Rather than praising your government saviors perhaps you should consider how you could have mitigated this through your own actions and what the government could have done to avoid putting you in this situation in the first place.

[@mchoe5890]

GET RID OF 3rd PARTY PAYER! LET THE CUSTOMERS SHOP AROUND PAY DIRECTLY

[@CanadianOptionsTrader]

Socialized healthcare seems to work pretty well in my country. 🇨🇦 It's definitely not perfect, but I've never heard of anyone here going bankrupt or losing their house due to medical bills.

[@CanadianOptionsTrader]

@Joel Pedlar I guess it depends on our individual experience. I've alway been happy with the health care I've received. Having said that, Ontario has just approved a plan to privatize some parts of our public health care system. So now we will find out if privatization makes it better or worse.

[@alexisreyna2423]

Your "country" has 10 times less the pop of the us

[@jumboshrimps4498]

I've never heard of anyone going bankrupt or losing their house here in the US either. That doesn't prove anything.

[@CanadianOptionsTrader]

@@jumboshrimps4498 Are you kidding? There are many news stories and documentaries of exactly this happening. I don't know what reality you're living in.

[@jumboshrimps4498]

@@CanadianOptionsTrader you are claiming that if you never heard of a problem then it doesn't exist. I'm simply pointing out the flaw in your logic

[@gnyphq6405]

This is a completely ethnocentric look at healthcare, simple because the whole system is considered a business (based in P &L) statements, while true, universal healthcare is a paradox because it would need to be considered a service and not held to the metrics of capitalist idealism.

[@ralphkilloran8065]

Why is it that Americans distrust socialized health care where everyone gets coverage but have no problems with socialized workers' compensation that has a horrible reputation in caring for injured workers? The Canadian government also restricts workers to Workers' Compensation despite the long list of mistreated workers.

[@godlessprophet5808]

Thanks to military service, I have Tricare. Tricare doesn't cover chiropractic treatment for the bad back that my military service gave me.

[@wyattstone8222]

See a Physical Therapist. Chiropractors are voodoo scam artists.

[@americanbobtail1]

@@wyattstone8222 - Physical Therapists only teach you exercises that hopefully will provide relief in the long-run. However, chiropractors align your body instantly with immediate relief without addictive medication. So at the end of the day, physical therapists become pawns for orthopaedic surgeons that increase healtjcare costs through surgery. I know from experience....

[@CaryHawkins]

This is one of the least capitalist systems in our country, and it shows.

[@Svenne-man-1880]

Well you either go with larger amounts of freedom OR you let the state decide if you live or not

[@JuanDavidJaramilloXD]

follow up video suggestion... you should look up into health care tourism; I know it's a growing industry in latin america, precisely 'cause first world citizens (especially north american people) can find top tier medical facilities and care for far lower costs and access it immediately.

[@LearnLiberty]

We have a medical tourism video coming up next month ;)

[@CounterCultureWISE]

I haven't had Healthcare at all since Bummer made it so expensive an entire paycheck doesn't cover just the monthly premium, forget the co-pays or deductable.

[@jrstf]

You have no right to exist if you can't meet government demands.

[@namenloses95]

yeah socialism is really bad for healthcare. I dont know how I survived here in germany with my affordable, socialsim health care system where I can see a doctor when I need one without the fear of having to sell my kidneys later

[@Borrowed_Rowboat]

This analysis is completely backward and disingenuous. The healthcare system in the US is already almost completely controlled by private interests, even the so-called "public" components. After all, the very few ultra-rich people who own medicine-related companies (including hospitals) make the rules, and the rules -- as well as healthcare-related companies' policies -- are aimed at PROFIT. And those companies are EXTREMELY EFFICIENT at earning profits. The solution is not to privatize and deregulate (more), but rather to shift the healthcare industry from profit-based to needs-based. A socialist system would be democratic, in that everyone would have a voice in how it is run, not just the rich and powerful, and everyone would have access to the care they need, resulting in more happy, healthy people who aren't driven to bankruptcy and suicide by crushing debt. And it's those rich and powerful people who want you to be AFRAID of socialism, because it's a threat to their exploitative system that is aimed at making them richer and richer. And that system is the opposite of liberty.

[@dirtyblueshirt]

I'd like to see HSAs modified so that anyone could open one, like a checking or savings account, and the money can be used to pay insurance premiums, with an appropriate increase in the annual contribution limits. That would put employers, the unemployed, and the self-employed on the same level regarding taxes and it would tend towards individuals making their health insurance decisions with employers simply providing the funding, which would close the gap between customers and consumers that currently exists.

[@willstikken5619]

Why would there need to be contribution limits? Especially if the uses that receive tax sheltered status are already limited? Why limit it to a checking account style rather than a 401k style investment account? Heck make both the 401k and HSA personal investment accounts so that they are tied to you rather than the employer and give give people the options of having their employers contribute to the HSA in lieu of traditional health insurance.

[@dirtyblueshirt]

@Will Stikken HSAs already have investment options. The contribution limits are to make it politically palatable.

[@lights473]

That's what Milton Friedman proposed

[@RYLEE1121-k3m]

I 100% agree and have made proposals of what this looks like and sent to both parties in local government all before. It more of a expansion of HSA

[@DanJohnsonAffordableAviation]

THREE WORDS: Direct Primary Care. No insurance accepted; no Medicare accepted; typically ~$100 a month for unlimited primary doctor visits. I have no stake in this; use your favorite search engine and look further. This is the best free-market medicine I’ve seen.

[@armoringregret9833]

How do we change it?

[@louismelahn1805]

(1) Begin offering an opt-out, so that people can invest whatever taxes they would spend on Medicare, Medicaid, and VA affairs in to tax-protected health-saving accounts. (2) Transition from single-payer insurance to health vouchers for the needy. (3) Start deregulating as much as you can: insurance, FDA, trade barriers, medical licensure, etc.

[@ryanjacobs836]

Ah yes the staple of socialism, paying for things with lots of money

[@dirtyblueshirt]

Socialism makes things more expensive. Always. It sometimes doesn't seem that way to the intellectually challenged because the system moves the expense from money to time and/or quality. Democrats managed to make health care more expensive in all three margins. It's rather impressive, in a "Dear God, what have they done?" sense.

[@Valle882]

Well I live in Germany and the amount of taxes I pay for my healthcare in a year is less than what one ride on an ambulance in some parts in the USA costs

[@dirtyblueshirt]

@@Valle882 it doesn't, but good job demonstrating your ability to parrot stupid propaganda.

[@furlan1743]

@@dirtyblueshirt "socialism is when things in a capitalist system become more expensive, when gubermint does thing, and when something I dont like happens." Americans brain were unreparably hurted by red scares.

[@dirtyblueshirt]

@@furlan1743 the word you're looking for is "irreparably," Souper-genius. If you're trying to defend socialism you are far too stupid and ignorant to bother with.

[@cwad737]

Yeah I lived under socialized medicine back in the military... Talk about a crap show. Blew my shoulder out (it definitely felt way different than anything I ever experienced) and told them immediately, hey this isn't a normal injury, I need an MRI. Well they put me in physical rehab for six months... After the end, nope still feels same/worse. Well okay let's see the schedule, how's 4 months sound for the MRI? (Got it in 3.5 because someone cancelled) couldn't go anywhere else, and yeah blew out my labrum and capsule. Let's see after the MRI let's get you scheduled for surgery... How's two months sound? So a year after the initial injury I finally got the surgery I needed (and was active duty mind you). Socialized medicine sucks. BTW the doctor who did the first surgery was pcs'ing (permanent change of station) to Spain in two months, so he did a botched job and had to repeat the process again a year later. Lulz.

[@danielreardon6453]

Fuck that

[@SandfordSmythe]

And you wouldn't mind Medicare helping to you pay for your own doctor?

[@cwad737]

@@SandfordSmythe you clearly didn't read my comment. I was on the military version, and had to wait a year to fix my shoulder. Two because the first surgery was botched. Don't get me started on how they mixed up my dental x-rays and gave me a root canal I didn't need and that actively poisoned me for a decade and gave me some bone loss in my jaw. Maybe next time read, digest, and then respond with a well thought out response instead of some copy/pasted buzzwords trying to illicit an emotional response devoid of substance.

[@SandfordSmythe]

@@cwad737 Medicare is a different system

[@MarineAqua45]

Does it? You should blame the doctors for this & not the healthcare. You should have been given an:ultrasound-test on your shoulder & sent for an MRI scan,soon after. Say two weeks at the most. Thats the process of The NHS in Britain: that I use. So,whilst these days there are longer-waits:social-medicine,doesn’t bankrupt me or will not cover me,if I got,say:Cancer,etc. America has no value on human-needs unless you have money.

[@29Darian]

And this doesn't ever cover how we have a crisis in the USA of primary doctors, but insurances refuse to accept new doctors.

[@jeremyhill927]

Here in "socialist" Slovakia I have far more access to healthcare than I ever did in America. It's the greatest reason we chose to leave the US and stay in Europe. Universal healthcare saved my life when I battled cancer. Top notch care with no bill at the end. (To all commenters: Slovakia's personal tax rate is a flat 25% Compulsory healthcare contributions, which are income-related, are paid to the chosen health insurance company. 4% is paid by the employee and 10% by the employer. Nearly 98% of the population is covered by health insurance which pays nearly 100% of all hospital stays and doctor visits, including a large percentage of vision and dental. A nominal fee is charged for prescription medications. My son's 2-pack of epipens cost $2. We don't pay co-pays or worry about deductibles or networks, and we never have to deal with the insurance companies. There are numerous problems with the system. However crippling debt and bureaucratic runaround are not amongst them. As for the cost, Inflation-adjusted to 2018 PPP U.S. dollars- Slovakia $2,180 USA $ 10,624)

[@soundscape26]

An American ex-pat friend mine who lives France was over the moon for not having to pay for an ambulance for the first time in her life. Just an ambulance.

[@willstikken5619]

Is not knowing how much the healthcare costs you actually a feature? It's the same with the American system which tries to hide the actually cost from people only even less transparent when its taken through taxes. I think the real problem for me isn't the idea of funneling the cost through the federal government but rather their track records of increasing costs through bad policy, over regulation and ever increasing bureaucratic overhead that makes me prefer keeping them out of something this important.

[@dirtyblueshirt]

Just a bill every single day of your life, sick or well.

[@jeremyhill927]

@@willstikken5619 Government price regulation is a large part of why healthcare is so affordable in Slovakia but not America. Of course there is corruption in the Slovak system but it's not a free-for-all like the American system. My daughter was in a rural hospital in Texas for 36 hours due to a bad case of the flu(no procedures or special medication). We had just lost our insurance for her so the hospital charged us $8,500. A single dose of ibuprofen cost $20. This was 15 years ago.

[@willstikken5619]

@@jeremyhill927 The US system is anything but a "free-for-all". That $20 does of ibuprofen is due to the regulatory and bureaucratic overhead. You suggest it is under-regulated when the opposite is true, ti is seriously over regulated, in part by government and in part by insurance and providers attempting to meet government requirements. I know nothing of Slovakia but price controls produce scarcity, not lower prices. Either we have a vocabulary difference with what you're calling a price control or someone, like the tax payer, is eating up the difference.

[@Pyriphlegeton]

I'm european. I can choose my doctor, I can go see him every day and all expenses that are deemed medically necessary by the insurance are covered in full. And we have a lot of government intervention. We also pay less per capita than the US (as does every country on earth). So it seems government intervention can be done well.

[@yamanosu9463]

Which country? The United *STATES* of America is more comperable to the E.U. than it is the U.K. or Germany. We have states(plural) that are more similar to any major European country in terms of (GDP and population), than any country is similar to our Union. Beyond that, some of the most inflexible and inefficient medical systems in the modern world also exist in Europe(Italy, Greece, U.K., etc) using a model closer to yours than they are to ours. Basically, this is all to say that: scale matters, social trust matters, and every country is very different.

[@yamanosu9463]

This doesn't even account for the fact that our corrupt-corporatist medical establishment is set up to enable international crony organizations to subsidize your medical establishment, leaving us to foot the bill for the discount that every practically every non-american country receives.

[@Pyriphlegeton]

@@yamanosu9463 Germany is also a federal republic, made up of 16 constituent states. It is still a country. The USA is a federal republic of 50 states...it is still a country.

[@giratina6665]

Have you watched the New York Times vid on healthcare cost and the reaction if people outside if the USA to it?

[@mertyavuz9592]

@@Pyriphlegeton US has a population of 330m you cant compare that to any other country in the EU

[@towardcivicliteracy]

A right is actually a liberty.

[@UltraRik]

What about the HMO act? Didnt this effectively cartelize insurance?

[@neomanrex]

To me the problem is one of even the baseline concept of "Insurance." Which is just a pyramid scheme by another name. As long as there are people in your downstream that are healthy you get taken care of. But if too many people start actually pulling from the insurance for costs then the whole thing falls apart. Paying ahead of time to hedge low risks is literally burning money.

[@willstikken5619]

While I share your view of insurance we don't really have a culture of saving for these things. Not in the "middle class" and certainly not by the poor. That leaves the question of how to we deal with this pragmatically? Do we leave people to deal with crushing unexpected medical expenses? Do we dream that we can someday reduce our healthcare costs and just pretend that is itself a solution? Beyond an interest in seeing what a truly free market healthcare system would look like I don't have the answer.

[@baph0met]

That's not a problem cause it's voluntary, nobody is forcing you to pay insurance unlike taxes, at least I hope so.

[@k_tubbs]

I might be one of the few cases where this system kind of works, and I still think it's garbage. I'm 27 and disabled. I'm on my husband's corporate insurance. It's on the expensive side, but we get so much coverage. My meds and procedures cost a lot. Even if I chose to pay out of pocket. Some private practices have different prices for people who choose not to use their insurance. For example, a chiropractor, my charge insurance, 100+ dollars, and your co pay might be $50. Supposedly saving you $50. But many providers now have a secondary price. Maybe $30 for those without insurance. Because they usually can't set the price of the customers' care, the insurance company does. Which is so ass backward. It makes sense to insurance because they just give you one amount as your set co pay for in network specialist. $50. But that means they have to decide how much that visit actually costs, instead of the provider. The thing is, the provider has to apply and ask the insurance company if they can be in the network. Not the other way around. The insurance company isn't going around choosing good doctors. They are simply vetting doctors who wish to participate because the insurance companies would direct their customers to your practice if you are in their network. You almost can't practice if you aren't in at least one insurance network because then you wouldn't get many patients, no matter how good you might be. And if you join a hospital, that choice isn't even yours. It's the hospitals and their billing department. You can agree to do a procedure without pay, but the hospital will still charge the patients insurance for everything they touch, the bed, the room, the free toiletries the patient did use, every single nurse that checked on them, every little thing. And on one hand that makes sense, those things cost money. But I've worked in steril supply. Not everything, but a lot of hospital supplies are sterilized and reused. That does not mean they didn't cost money but the hospital charging every customers insurance the full price of that reusable product does not make sense. And insurance is okay with it because if they can mail their customers a notice that the hospital bill would have been 7000$, but you only have to pay a $100 co pay and 10% of the bill which is just $700 andisn't that just great customer, then they look like they did something useful. And customers feel like they would be totally screwed if they didn't have insurance to save them. It's such a fucked up mess. And I benefit from it! And I still think it's a fucked up mess! We need universal health care in this country so bad. It should not be this convoluted to get care and to then pay for that care.

[@Dr_Larken]

I still think it’s amazing, that when a doctor says that you need “X test” or whatever else, the insurance will argue with the doctor, and the doctor, ultimately will have to go with whatever the insurance says, the doctor goes to college in practice medicine for years! The insurance person probably was hired at the beginning of the year, but the insurance person is calling the shots, or rejecting the shots

[@Sk0lzky]

A short story from a citizen of a country providing public healthcare: I recently became a gig worker which means I'm not covered by (aka forced to participate in) the standard state-run healthcare system in my country. The optional participation actually costs a lot more than the mandatory one, because, unlike in case of a regular employment contract, the fee is evaluated not based on your wage, but on average income in the entrepreneurial sector (aka AVG joes lumped together with the ultra rich; this does make sense by the way, nobody wants people starting shell companies to get free healthcare lol). Instead of allowing the state to essentially rob me blind, except this time voluntarily, I bought out a private subscription plan listed as "premium" by the provider, which gives me access to much better care for about 5% less money (difference is so small I'm convinced it's there just to spite the national fund, since they offer better solutions to the most common issues anyway, not to mention short queues).

[@jocL2005]

In Malaysia there is both universal public healthcare and affordable insurance for private healthcare. The country is plighted by a variety of issues and healthcare was somehow still done pretty alright where we have high quality options as well as safety nets thanks. My brother got a highly reputable neurosurgeons. I do believe regulation played a big part in making this happen, I am not aware to what extent and the cost is difficult to measure but probably comes in the form of taxpayers money, tax on alcohol and tobacco etc

[@flotsamike]

I lived 9 years in England with the national health service and I miss it every single day. It was simple, always available, and worry free. It was 6% of my salary but my employer paid half of that. I could walk into any emergency room in any town or city and get care for free. I never had to wait more than two weeks to make an appointment with my doctor for routine issues. In the few cases that ambulances were needed they cost nothing because they were paid for by a charity which we usually funded with our spare change at pubs. I also live 2 years in Australia where I was not eligible for socialized medicine but because it existed my health insurance never got over $140 a month. I did not even bother having health insurance for the first two months I was in Australia because seeing a doctor and buying my medicines or so cheap. In both England and Australia medicines are cheap because the government buys all of the medicines as a single purchaser and distributes them to pharmacies who then are required to only have limited markups on them. Different pharmacies offer different services which increase their profits. Medicines which are not bought by the government first or outrageously expensive, but some people still pay for them, because they are free to. When you live in these systems the first thing you learn is just how not free as an expensive so-called free life is. In my 9 years in England I cannot see any benefit from the extra expense. I could travel more easily speak more freely and do more things without fear or worry. It's particularly annoying to realize things like MRI penicillin and many other modern advances in medicine were made in socialized medicine systems.

[@MarineAqua45]

What Ambulance-Service,was that? My counties Ambulance-Service,was funded out of taxes.

[@Nissenformed]

Healthcare insurance is not the same as healthcare first of all. So commenters, stop conflating the two. Secondly, most advancements in medicine have come from the US and then the IP taken by others, legally or otherwise. All you touting greatness from other countries, you have because of the US creating. We screwed it up here by tying healthcare to an employer based system of insured care, which is a govt created problem, not capitalism.

[@danielreardon6453]

To the extent america is socialist, is the extent the country has degenerated

[@SandfordSmythe]

So what's the difference between insurance and healthcare? It seems to be a secret all the time.

[@Nissenformed]

@SandfordSmythe Generally speaking, insurance of any type is a scam that one pays into and then when it's needed, the insurance company balks at paying for anything it can. Healthcare is just that, taking care of one's health. If prices were more appropriate, we would all be paying for medical services when those services were rendered as with any other exchange of goods or services in this country. Anything catastrophically expensive could be handled in much better ways than forcing everyone into some one size fits all solution.

[@SandfordSmythe]

@@Nissenformed Another problem that is not explained, is what happens to those that don't have enough money to pay. Market competition is not going to push providers below their profit margins. Poor people are left out of healthcare? And please don't say charity has the capacity to address that

[@Nissenformed]

@SandfordSmythe But that is exactly how. I am a direct example. Iv had to use the ER with no insurance and no way to pay before. Hospitals have ways of helping those that dont have. When you do it by force, you get less. I know leftists dont believe in charity, but before the govt stepped in, that is exactly how people without means were helped, and they were. People werent falling out or dying all over the place before medical insurance took over. Telling people that a doctor's labor and intellectual property are their rights (given by god?) has only enabled a culture of complete dependence on others such that hospitals are jammed up by people who could and should have taken care of themselves first, then the medical staff perform tests or treatments that arent really necessary just to make the person feel like they're being listened to. This skyrockets costs. I see this every day in my job. Lower costs mean easier ability to give to charity. Increasing govt involvement will only increase costs.

[@Knightmessenger]

You talked about company provided health insurance. But I wished you looked at the impact that has had on the wage gap. How much more per hour would we be making if companies didn't give us health care for "free?" Its not that wages are being stolen from workers or "corporate greed" or that CEOs are underpaying people so they can buy a new yacht. The money is being spent on workers but it's evaporating before it actually reaches the paycheck. I looked at my pay/benefits scale and it turned out at that time my company was paying over 16 an hour on my behalf. Yet my wage was 12.90 an hour. Some of the benefits like workplace insurance and work comp probably makes sense but the biggest slice in the pie graph besides wages was health insurance. If the company just paid me 15 an hour, I could shop around for a health plan I might like better. (And cheaper) And sometimes I haven't worked enough hours to qualify for the employee plan. And yet going on the Obamacare exchange gives me more choices and shows me lots of plans that are cheaper than the company plan, even without the subsidies. (Not that it's easy to find how much the company plan actually costs) So if my company is willing to pay 450 a month to put me on their health plan, why won't they pay for a 289 a month health plan I find somewhere else? The argument I hear is that the company plan is one of the best in the business. But it means less money for actual wages. And sometimes you don't need the most expensive product. Imagine if your job also bought every employee a Lexus. Sure you could have gotten a better value if the company let you ise your own money to buy the best value car for you. But the company bought in bulk so at least they got a good deal on all the cars. Tying healthcare to your job essentially moved the US back toward being a barter economy. And makes it harder to leave your job that gives you benefits, which feels like a company town.

[@Istandby666]

I've never been on the affordable (lol) care act. My companies normally charge me around $300/ pay check. This stupid act wanted me to pay $1,600/ month. When I asked why I had to pay so much. She told me because I'm healthy.

[@RYLEE1121-k3m]

So you are paying 7800 a year? If so get rid of insurance and put that in a high interest savings account. After 2 years at 3% if you don't use anything thats over 16,000$ Especially if you have any sort of deductible on top of that. Most health care facilities will give you a deal for paying cash anyways and will try and get more done in a appointment knowing you don't have insurance. If you are worried about hospital stay you could always find a health plan like Aflac witch will probably be under $100 a month. And play out cash if you have to have a hospital stay.

[@OGDailylama]

00:30 EVERYBODY GETS THIS WRONG. EVEN OUR SIDE. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE. People have the right to “care for themselves” free from interference from outside sources. If they deem they want outside assistance, they have a right to seek that as a solution but NOBODY has the right to demand services from others to fulfill their own RESPONSIBILITY to self healthcare. We always worry about “Rights” but nobody ever talks about the responsibilities that are REQUIRED to maintain those “Rights”… How about people start talking about the responsibilities that come with God Given Rights. Gun ownership is a responsibility, self care is a responsibility, understanding that freedom doesn’t ensure success is a responsibility, etc. If people don’t want to act responsibly to ensure their own existence, we should let them have their existence but if they demand we pay for their existence, we should shun them from society because they don’t value our society. They only want to abuse our society

[@angelp4724]

Waiting times in the UK hospitals and clinics are so awful! Many of my friends have complained that basic stuff like wanting to see a GP for 15 minutes requires waiting almost 2 weeks or (even 3 weeks after COVID). The clinics are just too 'busy' indefinitely to book you in earlier unless there's a cancellation. Even worse is, if you have a more serious mental health issue or need physical therapy, Waiting times can be Several Months! If you have autism or disorders like that, getting tested by the doctors to confirm it can take 3-12 months ......and this is from many people's experiences. Now it's just normal, and it isn't even shocking anymore.

[@stevegiles4549]

And yet the UK spends a third of the amount of money per captia on healthcare, and yet has dramatically better outcomes. And nobody in the UK ever has to worry about medical debt. Over a third of money spent on helthcare in the US is spent on Administration - more than is spent on preventavive medicine and long term care. The American Heatlhcare System is a farce

[@LMB222]

Yes, waiting times in the UK are long - they would be that long in US if Americans could afford to go to the doc.

[@0utJ4nd3r]

I appreciate where you were going there; but bereft of any comment on Healthcare for profit, you're being an obvious schill for the people perpetuating the actual problem. It's easy to blame government if you're so obtuse as to ignore the influences of government.

[@southpaw1032]

The VA, giving veterans a second chance to die for their country

[@johnd.5601]

It's terrible. I don't know why they kept me alive! They should just let people die! I was a construction worker, and I was highly motivated and loved it! After I got hurt, I knew that no matter how hard I tried, it would never be enough. I tried with everything I had. It takes money to go to the doctors office and time. Then, it takes more money to go to physical therapy. It's time and money for gas and money for extra food because you are healing and burning extra calories doing therapy. Then, there are small expenses on items that are suggested by the doctors and physical therapist. On top of all that, we have a loser 401k retirement plan that crashes every other day and is taxed severely. Forget about life events that's over. It would have been more humane to let nature take its corse. As time passes, things get worse and money is extremely difficult to work for. I was told a story when I graduated from high school. Every morning the gazelle wakes up before the lion. Why would anyone help a gazelle then throw the gazelle back in the ring with the lion? It's cruel! Just lie and let people die because life has to many lions!

[@Basta11]

As libertarians you guys miss the mark by a mile. You need to look at why care cost so much. 50% is labor. It’s very expensive to train a doctor in the US. 4 year bachelors + 4 years medicine. Medicine is a bachelors in most of the world. Nurses are bachelors in the US when it’s mostly an associate in the rest of the world. Not only this, but the schools are limited in their class sizes even if people are qualified and willing to spend the time and the money. We graduate much more doctors and nurses and technicians of the restrictions were relaxed. Foreign healthcare professionals also have a huge hurdle to immigrate and practice in the US. Our healthcare professionals are the highest compensated in the world. Also our hospitals are very understaffed and overworked. Another thing is land use regulations. Hospitals and clinics are much smaller than they otherwise would be if not for parking requirements, height restrictions, etc etc. This adds cost to the healthcare product. Anti-density laws and pro car laws also make people increase car fatalities, commuting stress, obese with lack of exercise, and inhaling more pollution. Our cities are also hotter cause more heat stroke. Insurance is also quite a big debacle but it’s secondary to the cost of providing care.

[@trentp151]

Democracy has ruined the world. Every time I hear one of our "dear leaders" talk about "our democracy," I cringe so hard, because I know that the natural evolution of democracy is the transmutation into socialism, and then into communism. Even Marx recognized that democracy was the first step on the road to communism.

[@furlan1743]

So you hate capitalism. Because the historical materialistic evolution of society is capitalism -> socialism -> communism. The fact that capitalism enforcement is protected by a liberal democracy isn't a constant. Especially for the global south.

[@trentp151]

@@furlan1743 no, you are thinking of fascism, not capitalism.

[@trentp151]

Capitalism means a free market. That means little to no government intervention or taxation. The intervention by government on businesses (fascism and socialism) means higher and higher prices as well as burdensome taxes on the lowest classes and the end.. consumers. What we need is a republic with a free market, which means our rights are inherent, given by God, not by government, and the free market being absolutely split from government; no taxes and no regulations.

[@baph0met]

1. It is heavily pushed into people since young age, children are indoctrinized from literally age 6 about how democracy is amazing and has no flaws 2. "Democracy" and "good" have basically become synonyms and if you dare to criticize democracy you are automatically called a fadcist, pro dictatorship etc. 3. It is historically proven that democracy leads to socialism. And that's because politicians are elected on the basis that they promise something. They mostly promise protection, protection from themselves or from some influences. The more of this protection there is, the less people are responsible for themselves. The state takes over their responsibility. So there are more irresponsible people and those again tend to vote for politicians who promise them even more protection. Just quick look at how western countries looked in the past regarding freedom (before 1960 and such) and how they look today, or even a more recent showcase of post communist countries. I'm from a post communist country, communism fell in 1989 here and just a quick fact that in 1992 we used to have 500k laws and regulations and in 2018 we had around 4 milion, tells you everything you need to know.

[@trentp151]

@@baph0met See, now that's what I'm talking about. I am glad I am not alone in thinking those forbidden thoughts

[@mactastic144]

Once again, the young people have to pay higher premiums for higher out-of-pocket costs, deductibles, co-pays, and co-insurance.

[@bubi3875]

i think public healthcare will be good for competition. It has to be more affordable and I am pretty sure a lot of peoplo would have stopped paying for private insurance. That would lead to reducing private healthcare prices. I am not from US but here in Poland you can use public and private clinics

[@baph0met]

That's just plainly wrong. Public healthcare aka paid from taxes directly hinders competition. Here in Czechia private clinic are expensive BECAUSE of public clinics, plus all the stupid regulations. Get rid of public clinics, get rid of regulations, and you'll have hospitals on every street costing a penny.

[@HardcoreFourSix]

Anything provided at someone else's expense is not a right, even healthcare

[@ngallakp62]

In nz we have socialised healthcare that everyone is entitled to and pay into as part of our income tax. if you want to go higher then you can go private if you want.

[@happyfacejoakim]

As a Dane from a socialist capitalist country where we have public health care; The USA is doing it wrong, and what you’re calling socialism is actually more like bureaucracy. A problem in your analysis that you address wrongly is that customers should choose their own healthcare - a true capitalist value, but the issue here is that the average Joe and Jane does NOT have the qualifications to choose the best healthcare for themselves, and in situations of severe injury then one should prefer a public system, because then any hospital or physician can freely treat the nearest patient regardless of insurance coverage. And this leads to the fundamental issue with healthcare, it’s difficult and complex and doctors, physicians, surgeons, nurses and other health personnel train for years just to understand the basics and the spent additional years in specific fields to become qualified in just that one field. A capitalist model assumes the customers to understand its needs and the vendors offers to make an informed and rational decision, but healthcare is simply said to large and complex a subject for any customers to truly grasp. And this shows in your current system i.e. lack of healthcare coverage due legal issues in the insurance coverage. To end off my comment; a socialist solution of public healthcare is superior to a free market and especially superior to the current American model, because healthcare is reduced to simply pay a national tax that covers everyone everywhere everyday. And this is not the cheapest option for everyone because some people will be less sick on average than other people, but advocating that these people should feel cheated is a zero sum game, and you’re making everyone worse off in legal issues just to move a minor pile of money around, and the ultimate winner then becomes lawyers, bureaucrats and administrators and not the customers.

[@alexf7797]

I agree that the US healthcare system is shit, but the video does a pretty good job at explaining why. The claim that you made that the customer is too dumb to make a decision about which healthcare provider they want (or SHOULD want?!) and therefore they should be assigned one by an authority instead is not a great argument though. Sure, any healthcare system is complex, and the patient does not usually understand its workings, but that's also true of a car for example. I admit that I know precious little about how a car works, but I feel confident that I would choose one that suits me better than a state assigned car solution that everyone would get, simply because all of the information about its workings is something that I do not need to understand to make a decision. I only have to understand my own needs and preferences, and even if it is true that a few people are incapable of doing just that, it does not mean that everyone should be forced into a blanket option, in order to save those people from themselves. Also, public healthcare has different results and quality in every country that has it. Currently, if you dislike the mandatory public option and live in one of these countries, you cannot vote with your money on a competing one - you still have to pay for it, and the only way to choose a different healthcare system is to move to another country. A big part of the reason why countries like Denmark and Norway have decent to good public healthcare is because these are small, rich and traditionally homogenous countries, ethnically, culturally and in many other ways with a high level of conformity, so society-wide coordination is fairly easy. It is getting somewhat stressed by the recent waves of immigrants and refugees though, but luckily these systems are resilient enough, so far at least. But my point is, it probably wouldn't work so well in melting pots like the US with so many different cultural and economic backgrounds and needs, lifestyles and preferences. And I definitely don't even think that socialized healthcare is the highest order solution even where it does work. I live in Norway currently, and I think that a fully private system driven by customer choice would be preferable, since that improves waiting times and service quality, and drives costs down due to proper competition. I'm originally from Hungary, and looked up private insurance options there recently - even the best packages cost less than what I used to pay in taxes for public healthcare, and it contained everything except the primary care provider, but only because they are prevented by law from providing primary care. And the quality of public healthcare is pretty shit, most hospitals feel like you're in the 90s, waiting times are long and the doctors aren't motivated to provide great care, because they will get the same paycheck, based on seniority, regardless. This is also something that a privatized system provides much better: incentive.

[@KipVaughan]

The big argument I hear is that people won't have choice and will be dependent on bad healthcare. When I listened to a European caller on the David Pakman Show recently he said that while what is offer for "free" may not be great healthcare over there but you still have options to buy better healthcare. Why would someone opt for bad healthcare? Because the other option is no healthcare at all and that can end up costing your life. I've known too many people who died in the US by choosing to put off a doctor visit.

[@hagoryopi2101]

The choice between low-quality authoritarian healthcare you're forced to pay for even if it's trash (meaning you have to pay twice if you want anything better), and low-quality free market healthcare you can still shop around for to avoid the trash for the just-good-enough, seems like an obvious one to me. I'd rather have by consent respected, than be forced to accept what someone else considers to be a good deal for me while my wishes are disregarded.

[@joecooper8527]

The European models are not even close to being the same. Comparing apples to oranges.

[@KipVaughan]

@@hagoryopi2101 Healthcare cannot be "authoritarian" if they aren't forcing to you have it. I already said in the original post you can choose to pay whatever other healthcare you want in the European countries that where discussed. Yes you have to pay for government healthcare but the cost of not paying for it is death among a large segment of the population. For an example my parent's had a gardener who got Covid, but put off going to the doctor and died. With slow inefficient healthcare he would still be alive. One reason I feel the need to bring this up is that the people who are pushing the no healthcare solution here in the US are almost entirely those that would erroneously call themselves "Pro-Life." i just want people to be completely honest that your real position is to kill people so that you can save money in taxes. Also I love how they bring up Obamacare without mentioned that a republican president was in office for a full term after that! Well what great healthcare options did he Trump provide? If Obamacare is bad then how did Trump fix it in four years? They should have explained the most recent president since he could have turned around what the prior president provided but funny how he isn't even brought up! lol!

[@KipVaughan]

@@joecooper8527 Of course the European and US models are not the same that was my whole point of bringing it up! People have said if our healthcare was closer to the European model there wouldn't be choice. Actually there would be more choice. You would gain the option to have slow healthcare over dying from lack of healthcare.

[@joecooper8527]

@@KipVaughan Or fucking die from the slow healthcare. That shit happens all the time. It's a sick care system and not a Healthcare system. If it was there would be changes in habits towards better health.

[@Jamal-Ahmed786]

Just have a publicly funded healthcare system like the NHS in UK

[@EmberwildeProductions]

1. The expansion of Medicaid under the ACA has benefitted millions of Americans who were unable to receive care before but now are able to. Too bad most Republican-run states refused to do so. Curiously, these are also the states with lower life expectancy and greater health problems. 2. The worst aspects of America's healthcare system are that it costs more and has poorer outcomes than other developed countries. What kind of healthcare do they have? Socialized healthcare.

[@DanielFackrell]

Medical costs have skyrocketed under ACA, just like with every other big government intervention into healthcare. Why does the government solution always involve making things more complicated, less transparent, and far more costly?

[@LearnLiberty]

The problem of USA's healthcare is an enormous bureaucracy, because of this reason, we have such dire results. The solution of it is more private sector involvement.

[@SandfordSmythe]

@@LearnLiberty The topic of Medicaid is about people who can't afford private providers on their resources. You ran past that quoting a cliche.

[@rudyinthesky4967]

This whole video sounds like a libertarian wet dream...

[@MUSTASCH1O]

Socialised healthcare paid for through redistributive taxes is really only needed to support the minority of the population who cannot afford to pay for chronic conditions they were born with or developed over time. The rest of us can afford to navigate a privatisely owned and administered healthcare system. This would maximise freedom of choice whilst allowing competition to drive prices down to a "natural" equilibrium.

[@david5667]

Even people with money use the NHS in the UK. David Cameron the ex prime minister used the NHS for his son Ivan.

[@david5667]

I don't personally no anybody who has private healthcare in the UK, and I could afford it myself.

[@MUSTASCH1O]

@@david5667 Since we're already forced to pay into the NHS, it doesn't always make sense to pay for healthcare a second time by going private. Private healthcare in this country is so expensive because only top-end companies that serve those with wealth can survive in this system. I'm not saying the NHS doesn't do a tremendous amount of good; I just think it could be improved.

[@david5667]

@@MUSTASCH1O I completely agree with you, it could 100% be improved. I would even be willing to pay a little more tax if it was guaranteed to improve the NHS. I can easily afford private health care if I wanted too, but like you said why would I pay twice. If I got a serious illness and going private could fast track me to getting help then I would absolutely go private in that instance.

[@MUSTASCH1O]

@@david5667 I'd also pay more tax if it meant the NHS was adequately funded. We have to make the most of the system we have in the short term, and in the long term I'd like to see it reformed.

[@IamHattman]

Up here in Canukistan I don't know anyone with medical insurance. Each Provence has their own specific Healthcare plan, and they pretty universally cover things that are important. When my fiance broke her leg we got her to the hospital, she had surgery to put her ankle back together, and we didn't see a bill at the end of that. So there are ways to handle government run Healthcare that leaves options open without getting all the mess of insurance companies in the middle. Gonna have to disagree on this one, which is pretty rare for me with this channel.

[@willstikken5619]

I think you're ignoring the part where you do pay for it they just don't give you an itemized bill for it.

[@jrstf]

Unless you aren't vaccinated, then you don't get free, or for cost, care at all. Government gets to decide who is worthy of care. Definitely a fatal flaw.

[@LearnLiberty]

The video's main point is that each time the state tried to pay a lot of money for having better healthcare system, they failed. To our mind, more bureaucracy and social politics have worse results. To solve the problems in this sector, the USA needs more private sector involvement.

[@willstikken5619]

@@LearnLiberty But private sector means people will be exploited by evil corporations for *gasp* profit! Surely the noble and compassionate bureaucrats are more effective and efficient and serving the public...

[@LearnLiberty]

Will Stikken, the enormous bureaucracy in socialist countries is the perfect example of that.

[@qqqwark]

I am not sure if you would like to have doctors with no license, if you don’t believe me try going to Africa and Rusia. Fun times

[@Lark88]

It sounds good, but licenses just end up being official bribes so the government will let you do your job. Also, There are plenty of terrible doctors who have licenses.

[@qqqwark]

Sure, so you manage to filtrate some as in a lot actually to the alternative where you filtrate none! You need a licence for everything because it’s a guaranty and a insurance safety a warranty. There is a reason every develop country is using it and there is a reason why some have high mortality rates of almost eradicated diseases outside their borders.

[@Knightmessenger]

The license requirements are overly strict. I believe this channel did a video on how our immigration laws limit doctors who are unquestionably qualified simply because their training didn't occur on US soil. And John Stossel did a video called Woke Medicine talking about how the AMA operates like a cartel while spewing empty slogans and twitter talking points.

[@qqqwark]

Don’t really know what the license requirements are in USA but from my experience I would not say they are that strict. Of course I could be mistaken. I also heard the same argument in Europe and it’s just a really bad argument, especially those kind of licences need to be strick and also regularly refreshed. UK for instance adjusted the standard to let more people from different countries practice medicine there and the results are extremely bad. For instance between neighbouring countries the differences can be so huge you simply don’t wanna have that doctor, the failed students from my country just hop the border study there and then they fuck up someone’s life back home.

[@alexf7797]

You are right given the particular context at hand - these doctors, including the terrible ones, are employed by the state, which is an awful judge of professional quality, or rather it doesn't concern itself with it on a case by case basis, so it makes sense for a government to establish and rely on strict licensing requirements for the kind of filtering you mentioned. Private systems work differently however. They are invested in the quality of their employees and have a high, direct stake in employing the best ones. As a private healthcare provider, you would want to retain customers and win new ones by having skilled doctors, and avoid lawsuits due to botched treatments by filtering out bad ones. Seeing as how government doesn't have a direct stake in the issue, their best method seems to be a blanket licencing mechanism. But when you think about the fact that licencing is just that, it is a method for ensuring quality, you realize that there is a place for competing methods by which to assess professional quality, and within private institutions better assessment methods might arise given the opportunity. However, government licencing makes it so that private companies are also bound by such centralized licencing rules that might be way too convoluted, or simply ancient, not suited to the best available selection methods, and makes them unable to consider alternative pathways to state licencing, which could open up more doors for relevant talent or might actually result in having better doctors than strict state licencing. So in short, your point might be correct that when healthcare is provided by the state and the personnel is licenced by the state, then it makes sense to have stricter licencing requirements rather than looser ones. But it is detrimental when applied to, or as compared to, the private industry with a direct stake in the issue.

[@vd1721]

It's not healthcare that is convoluted. It's insurance. Furthermore it isn't healthcare that can be an open market product, it's insurance. Helthcare many time is in emergency circumstance while insurance can be shopped for. They don't make the distinction in this video. While also making the distinction because they talked about insurance. Only way to fix it at this point is stop the patchwork approach and throw it all out and start fresh.

[@LearnLiberty]

To my mind, the main problem of this system is bureaucracy. The USA needs more private sector in that field.

[@shaner5949]

Bruh. This is the pure propaganda. You guys are giving me soooooo much content to critique for my essay.

[@mariafox9226]

I’d love my healthcare if my immune system didn’t fail to do its job and kill off all my insulin cells and I didn’t have to fork what would be $1000s per month without health insurance.

[@mrgmsrd]

Great video overall. One correction is that many of Medicare's payments are now "bundled" meaning the provider gets paid a set amount based on the diagnosis, and provides can't bill for a bunch of things in one visit (known as "fee for service"). It has flaws for sure, but it does help (a little) in curbing billing for frivolous things. I'd still prefer no Medicare!

[@JonMI6]

I only have good health insurance because my dad is a federal employee and I fall in it for a few more years until I get a job

[@marcusdavenport1590]

This video is too short.... such a great title and you barely scratched the surface... I miss when Learn Liberty wasn't afraid to make long videos. Did you hire new people? I know you're attempting to make short videos for the algorithm... however, I still see your longer videos in my recommended videos all the time. People watch your long videos... maybe focus on making the best content rather than trying to make the sub 10 min or sub 20 minute video.... 1 really long video covering everything would be best

[@mpcrane228]

Everything you hate about healthcare is actually capitalism

[@Abdukctkaz]

So basically the problem is the insurance companies? You did a lot of sidestepping around that lmao

[@baph0met]

The problem are taxes and regulations

[@tinyleopard6741]

I like the style of this video, in an artistic kind of way.

[@pfa231]

While I agree in general, the piece about the medical licenses is just bullshit. I support deregulation as much as the next guy, but I also understand that there should be some basic regulatory framework in life-critical areas, like building codes or healthcare. Otherwise if I get into an accident and get on ER - how would I make sure the doctor who treats me (and whom I had no chance to choose) has at least basic set of skills?

[@LearnLiberty]

To my mind, the private sector is the key to that. When someone is a holder of a private hospital, he cares most about the hospital's reputation. A dissatisfied customer or a poorly performed operation is most likely to hurt him. So having educated or experienced employees are his main interest without state regulations.

[@pfa231]

@@LearnLiberty There are many things that are wrong with this, making it just an idealist utopia. For many people, hospitals are basically natural monopolies - due to them being brought here in ambulances and not having a choice. And we all know how well natural monopolies are motivated to be better. Another point - without government-established and maintained licensing infrastructure, it's going to be really hard for employers to validate the credentials and experience of prospective employees. Education standards are different between colleges, which would essentially lead to employers instituting full-scale entry exams. Last (but not least) - it will put a significant burden on me as a consumer to choose a properly qualified hospital/doctor. It's hard to sift through fake reviews for Chinese charging cables on Amazon - imagine the scale of the problem with hospital budgets to fund PR.

[@LearnLiberty]

It is not utopia, this is how businesses are working. There are many private companies on the market. They are competitors for each other, and each of them tries to develop for a significant market share which gives improved service. Some necessary licenses may be maintained in the case of the private sector. Also, there are many private companies in other sectors without government regulation, and each of them manages to hire good employees. The same will be here, the hospitals only need good HR.

[@pfa231]

OK, could you tell me how would free market protect me in case of road accident? Ambulance brings me to the nearest hospital, so what are the incentives of this hospital to hire and retain the best employees if ambulance will bring people to them anyway?

[@adamsholzhaus8196]

I look at life as feedback loops. When you take on health ins. you are disconnecting your feedback look.

[@jorden9821]

Good informational video :)

[@LearnLiberty]

Glad that you like it.

[@DocAkins]

I think the complaint department for Healthcare inefficiency is a basement room in Mount Olympus? Obviously, their intentions indicate they enjoy using other people as means to their own ends. They must be gods and goddesses! Obviously, my employer and the government are smarter than me. Or, at least they think so. And all they want to do is the right thing to save the world. Whether, or not, it works out according to their ideal plan is because we don't appreciate how great it could be.

[@fugukoch2943]

Next in row: how your soy burger is socialism 😂😂

[@chu-gacha1172]

Fr

[@dancerjim]

Excellent explanation.

[@LearnLiberty]

Jim, glad it was helpful!

[@dancerjim]

@@aceyage How do you define fair share?

[@ryanwood1684]

Great video 🤟

[@LearnLiberty]

Ryan, glad you liked it!

[@whatsup3519]

@@LearnLiberty I have a question. If someone look at hospital with lower price or higher quality service it encourage competition. In that case what if u r unconscious due to a car accident in that situation u don't look at cheap hospital with good quality but hospital near u. In that situation is this out of pocket system works? Is it possible u can negotiate with hospital in that condition? Could you please answer my question

[@Oblivious_uncertainties]

I just wanna see these health care prises go lower, that's it, people got lots of debts to pay.

[@jnorris0712]

Excellent video!

[@ThomasLeimer]

This video gave me the feeling I had a wierd illness. Doc said its called "ancap" and comes with permanent brain damage. Thank parlament where I live healthcare is universal and free 🌹

[@ExPwner]

Retardation would make you spew some dumb shit like this. No argument just insults

[@rontogunov282]

I'm pretty happy with my Canadian healthcare. I'm a libertarian in many ways, but healthcare should not be one of them.

[@DanJohnsonAffordableAviation]

If you are one of those who say there should be no profit in medicine, this primarily suggests you do not understand the role of profit.

[@jrstf]

We have seen that the Canadian government has no bounds to how far they will sink, you cannot assume you will be permitted to get healthcare of any kind if you take a different political position than the government. No question the diversified (no government involvement) healthcare system is the best, Canada has proven it so. In addition, there are no libertarians in Canada, at least not based on what we see in the makeup of parliament.

[@Knightmessenger]

@@jrstf canada uses the same awful first past the post voting system we do so libertarians and other third parties get screwed over.

[@soundscape26]

@@Knightmessenger Even at that Canada manages to have 5 parties represented in the parliament, something unthinkable in the US.

[@jrstf]

@@soundscape26 - In the US we have a lot of complaints that the two parties are both the same, that is exaggerated, but in Canada the 5 parties really are all identical.

[@speadskater]

Said exactly like someone who's never traveled in their life.

[@NessaEllenesse]

I had decent inurance beforw Oboze care passed, now its a pain in the @$$

[@nco_gets_it]

I can already hear the breadliners screaming "it's a conspiracy theory!"

[@LMB222]

Isn't the Cato Institute a fascist organization?

[@ExPwner]

No it is not

[@maras3000]

The problem is not with publicly available health care or socialism. US problem is with histerical clinging to putting capitalism everywhere including healthcare. There are things that simply should not be privatized. This includes military, judiciary system and healthcare.

[@dancerjim]

Government gets involved = big mess

[@johndough1264]

Double down or continue to create a more centralized easier to control and tax system? Potato potatoe

[@logicking3765]

As a true conservative, I hate healthcare because of insurance and that is a product of capitalism which ironically makes capitalism in the healthcare system impossible

[@jessecortez9449]

Insurance is a result of corporatism, not capitalism. It exists, as most people know it, as a result of government intervention into private practices. The U.S. is the most litigious country in the world and doctors couldn't continue practicing over the decades because of the increasing risk of lawsuits with authentic or inauthentic reasons. Insurance companies got doctors to use them as a buffer than the dynamic switched giving the insurance companies more power (claiming to protect themselves while protecting the doctors). Thus doctors ended up working for the insurance companies instead of the patient. The U.S. hasn't been capitalist for a very, very long time. It's been socialist for the better part of the 20th century.

[@gustavohopkins242]

@@jessecortez9449 pfff this isnt socialism either, this is crony capitalism using monopolies and oligarchies in most of our major industries. If it was socialism maybe people wouldnt have to pick and choose which medications they can afford or better yet see a doctor before a problem requires extensive medication

[@logicking3765]

@@jessecortez9449 well said mate

[@furlan1743]

@@jessecortez9449 "everything bad about capitalism, is actually crony/corporatism/socialism." Pure orthodoxy. Plus just thinking the USA is socialist... My fucking god get off the drugs. I understand that you Americans only known socialism and communism to use as epithets of "things I don't like" but really, go to see a doctor (a private free market capitalism freeness liberty one obviously!)

[@garym7937]

Democrats love this!

[@LearnLiberty]

Democrats love more government involvement in each sector, which almost always has negative results.

[@Dr_Larken]

Currently, I don’t have to pay a dime for mine! So I’m definitely satisfied! Other than the fact it’s free , I can call reach somebody in a couple of minutes, if I need to opt out of one doctor, and switch to another. I could knock that out on a 15 minute phone call Oh, did I mention it was freaking free!

[@alexisreyna2423]

Silly person thinks things are "free"

[@MarineAqua45]

@@alexisreyna2423 Its free at the point of need,meaning that:there’s no,co-pay. The hospital pays the bill,with government-money,that is collected,through:taxes & donated-monies from,charities too. Thats how most social,medicine-systems,work.

[@johnjacobjinglehimerschmid3555]

Well the problem is we let insurance companies be a FOR PROFIT enterprise.

[@AH-ml4vi]

UK - Happy with our NHS, socialized medicine. My political leanings are a triangle with Democracy on top then Capitalism and Socialism below. For many/most everyday services the dynamism of the capitalist approach is best but for others, such as healthcare, someone trying to extract profit from your pain is not always a good model. I trust the opinions of a doctor working with NHS funding more so than a doctor eager to fund his large mortgage payments from the payments your health treatments make him.

[@ExPwner]

Profit is not extracted nor is it a bad thing.

[@AH-ml4vi]

@@ExPwner In simple terms profit = income - expenditure. A big part of that expenditure is labor costs. If profit is gained by increasing income, no worries, if profits are maximized by squeezing the workforce then at what point does it becomes questionable and not good for the country as a whole. In addition a common practice in the UK has been for the Government to sell public owned businesses, such as water companies. Due to the infrastructure requirements they are often localized monopolises and treated as a cash cow by the private companies buying them. They have been loading the companies up on debt, paying out large dividends to the shareholders whilst paying very little attention to the upkeep and quality of the service (water) they provide. This puts the government in a bind, if they take the companies back they will be saddled with the large debts, and old infrastructure that needs more money to update and the public are getting deeply unhappy with the services and blaming the government that sold them in the first place. In most cases private enterprise is best but there are occasions when either public ownership or very strict regulation is required. So a mixed economy of socialism/capitalism can make sense.

[@root1657]

Thank you for this!

[@LearnLiberty]

Glad it was helpful!

[@root1657]

@@LearnLiberty it is! But I'm still on hold too. ;)

[@duancoviero9759]

This video is nothing more than confusing propaganda. For those that serve in this system, we know that the reason this system is the way it is because men like Michael Cannon lobby government to maintain the status quo. The government has been bought by the industry to keep the gravy train going. if health care was made public, private actors would have to compete fairly.

[@ExPwner]

The only propaganda here is yours. Government monopoly doesn’t make healthcare fairer dumbnuts

[@thearchie97]

First

[@LearnLiberty]

Welcome!

[@timj846]

Interesting video with the history of govt attempting to improve (control) healthcare. The fallacy of the video is that the actor is calling a private insurance company (Cigna) known for its awful HMO which is not the govt Medicare/Medicaid. You point out what is bad but offer no solutions other that govt is the problem. What about the AMA controlling who goes to medical school and our society putting medical doctors on a pedestal-- a lot of them charging outrageous fees, initially to cover the education loans. What is necessary is to make medical education less expensive and make it illegal for medical suppliers (big pharma) to organize PACs and in any way influence govt lawmakers.