The Worst Type of Train Station

Highway median transit stations seem to be a North American specialty, I wish that wasn't the case. Our Cities deserve better.
Thanks Diana for the C:S demo! check out her channel here:
@CitiesByDiana
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:14 Chicago History
3:18 UIC-Halsted
4:06 Sox-35th
5:05 Spring Garden & Girard
6:50 C:S Demo by Diana
8:21 Why do we even build these?
10:01 Other Options
11:05 Outro and Thanks

[@alanthefisher]

Thanks to Diana for helping out with this video! Go check out her channel here: youtube.com/@CitiesByDiana?si=yw8B6_2CrUs8iJSp

[@jiffyb333]

It was a great example!

[@Gamerad360]

I'd like you to compare tiers of transportation taking cost, space, accessibility, and the environment into account. Thanks in Advance.

[@heyitschad4582]

Wow two of my favorite channels collaborating 🎉

[@iivin4233]

I will become a patron if you make a video about how Rhode Island is absolutely perfect--ly fucked by its replacement of rail transit by road transit.

[@allws9683]

Hey, was the REM Montreal , in between a 2x4 highway not recently opened ? With a lot of clarion call ..? 🙄🤔 (edit. the vlog was not yet finished ...🤭)

[@michaelimbesi2314]

That’s the second worst kind of train station. The worst kind of train station is the kind that doesn’t exist anymore

[@Xeonerable]

Or the ones built in the middle of nowhere outside the town and you have to drive and park at it.

[@im_a-walking_shitpost_machine]

go transit@@Xeonerable

[@user-nl9xh8iw4v]

real

[@trashrabbit69]

There's a bunch of old depots here in Madison that have been converted to shops and storefronts. Whilst it's great to see it not get torn down I always get a twinge of insult from it. As if its dangling the forbidden fruit right above ones head, constantly teasing us with better transportation that no longer goes here. The one on West Washington even has an old Milwaukee Road E7 parked right next to it, why can't we just ride those damn things again!

[@qolspony]

Yep! Better to access something that is hard to get to, than nothing at all.

[@lardyman2]

It's shocking to see how willing our grandparents and great-grandparents were willing to tear up their cities for a highway, but today, putting in* a bus or bicycle lane is considered putting a permanent scar on the community.

[@ShadowNick]

Then go I remember the good ole days when insert doing X thing outside.

[@jdmo741]

Did they have a choice?

[@lardyman2]

Ah yeah outside that, it belongs to the cars now.

[@forever_noir_2155]

That’s why the highways were marketed as a means to get rid of those pesky blighted black communities.

[@gentlebabarian]

It's called propoganda! The older gener is very sensitive to it!

[@tijmen131]

I love how you are forbidden from smoking on the station but you are surrounded by a highway

[@boardcertifiable]

Yeah, they probably figure you'll inhale enough fumes from the cars to make up for not smoking.

[@Quadrophiniac]

Watching KZbinrs pick apart the crappy North American infrastructure I see every day has become one of my favorite pastimes.

[@SofaKingShit]

Me too but l don't even live there.

[@sc1338]

This channel represents a very small amount of American opinions. Some things a lot of people would agree with, but Americans love their cars and don’t wanna share a train with random people. In a highly dense area this might make sense, but the US isn’t densely populated. Cars are just better here

[@electric7487]

@@sc1338 The massive car-centric sprawl is also extremely wasteful, extremely inefficient, and extremely expensive to maintain. It creates a colossal socioeconomic toll on society, so much so that most suburbs cannot actually sustain themselves (or are not willing to do so) so they instead leech off more productive and denser areas. (Don't believe me? Check out Not Just Bikes since he has videos talking about exactly why this is true). This "toxic individualism" and insufficient focus on community is exactly what's been wrong with America until recently when younger generations have began reducing their driving in favour of more remote work and whatnot. I'm a car enthusiast myself and yet I still support expanding public transportation because I can see past the "cars = freedom" propaganda, and I know that better public transit means less cars on the road and therefore less traffic and less congestion. I'm also very drawn to walkable places like the downtown areas of Birmingham and Royal Oak here in Michigan, since they're human-centric.

[@Bookslayer10]

@@sc1338 If people want to ride in cars, then they should need to pay the full price of using one. The taxes and regulations against car users nowadays have not scaled up nearly as much as they should have, which means that cars are being subsidized by the other mass transit systems. Building roads loses money; building trains gains money. Sure, some Americans might want the luxury of a car, but they should be charged for that luxury, instead of the government building their roads with other people's money. The US is densely populated in its cities, and the cities which aren't densely populated ought to be made more densely populated. There are loads of other places around the world that are less dense than American cities and still have much better infrastructure, entirely because they balance their spending instead of wasting all their funds on inefficient roads and cars.

[@blubblubblup]

@@sc1338 a lot of the US isn't densely populated because people built it to be car-centric. just because there is a lot of land doesn't mean city planners should use all of it and build sprawling suburbs

[@zaired]

every highway median station should have platform screen doors and be fully enclosed. The noise is really terrible in these places, but it doesn't have to be, like the REM's highway median stations are pretty good in terms of connections and very quiet

[@TehStormOG]

what does the noise matter though?

[@drewdorkhead]

​@@TehStormOGNoise pollution can contribute to decreased overall health over time and also being enclosed means they could remove air pollution

[@GalladofBales]

@@TehStormOG Constant traffic noise is so damaging to our ears and our overall well being

[@maroon9273]

Plus, handicap accessibility as well. Also connection between local st, bridges and overpasses.

[@TehStormOG]

@@GalladofBales its not like you're living in the station though, you're only there for 5-10 min

[@jfolz]

The no smoking sign is pretty hilarious. How much worse could air quality possibly get?

[@loneIyboy15]

Several cigarette's worth worse.

[@furrymczplayer18]

You'd be surprised

[@mfbfreak]

Quite a lot - incomplete combustion of plant material puts out a shitton of particulates. Cars are ruthlessly efficient, combustion wise, much more than a glowing cigarette. That makes it possible that a single cigarette puts out more particulates from combustion than a whole car. I have not calculated everything, but if we assume a car from the past 10 years, their particulate emissions from combustion are very low.

[@martinp1054]

Well.... it's not because of the air quality, but more about the open fire. Imagine you are waiting for a train (inside of which you can not smoke as in there it would be about the air quality) and you train pulls up. By that time you still have a good half of the cigarette and are faced with a decision. Either you go into the train (where it is outlawed to smoke) with the cigarete, or you throw it away. One is straight up "illegal" and the other means you will have to put it out. That leads to people throwing the cigarretes on the ground (because the train could leave at any minute) or thrwoing the improperly put out cigaretes into the bins (possibly starting garbage fires). You would be surprised at how many garbage can fires are infront of underground metro stations because people come from "smoking allowed" to no-smoking areas and dont want to stop.

[@sudazima]

@@mfbfreak there is however not a whole car, but a whole hundreds of cars going by on a highway. the cars here are much much worse for you than a cigarette would be

[@shen1891]

People born before 1960 always have the most to say about "kids not playing outside anymore" while being responsible for tearing down train, bike, and pedestrian infrastructure and STILL working to keep it from being built

[@Distress.]

That's not why kids don't go outside anymore. It's because of electronics and an aging population. I grew up playing with other kids in my suburb because there was nothing else to do at home. No streaming, no social media. Nowadays my current suburban neighborhood only has one grade school age family with most of the street being empty nesters.

[@laurencefraser]

@@Distress. Nah, they were saying that when all there was was TVs, too. And the biggest cause isn't all the things the kids can do inside, it's that most of the things they used to do outside are deemed 'too dangerous' now and forbidden, where they used to be actively encouraged, be it due to the overblown fear of abduction (not to say this Isn't a thing, but it's much Less of a thing than it's made out to be), perfectly legitimate fear of car traffic, difficulty traveling to recreational spaces, or any number of other factors that I forget at the moment. Well, in neighbourhoods where there are actually any kids in the first place, of course. Obviously you're not going to have kids playing outside when there aren't any kids there to begin with

[@rishabhanand4973]

​@@Distress.And other countries have streaming and social media and all the same electronics we have in the states but kids still pay outside there.

[@ZazzelTheGamer]

​@@laurencefraserExactly.

[@ZazzelTheGamer]

​@@rishabhanand4973Americans just always love to pin the blame on literally everything but themselves.

[@stewarthicks]

Next time you're in town, let me know! That's my blue line stop!

[@jacobw2573]

I heard from someone who knew someone in the Chicago planning institutions that the Dan Ryan could have easily had no rail line component and that it was a big fight to even get the Red Line there in an era where the car was seen as solving all problems.

[@timothystamm3200]

Man, I hate how we Americans get sucked into new technology as being the next big thing without a deeper analysis of pros and cons, what current technologies can do, and being willing to look to other parts of the world. That and the pervasive racism. For example, my grandmother's hometown was burned down by the Confederacy for not paying a ransom, and now most of the residents besides her, at least in her age group, side with the Republicans who could and are recreating that same gangster mentality. They don't even see it. Hell, I don't think they even remember that history. Oh, and they used to have a good rail line to Harrisburg that got them on the electric lines to the Northeast Corridor and were originally a good dense small town. Not to mention, the railroad that originally built that line introduced sleeping car operations to the United States and invented the prototype of the modern form of those cars right there in Chambersburg.

[@jonathanslowik1380]

The way I look at it is that rail median highways is the best way to build a high way and the worst way to build rail

[@laurencefraser]

@@jonathanslowik1380 It's the way you get rail built when you can't get the money (or get rid of the opposition) needed to build something more ideal. Running the tracks done the middle of the highway honestly makes perfect sense a lot of the time... building the stations there, on the other hand, is just... dumb. Elevate a section of the highway high and long enough that the trains can turn out under it, run a small amount of track through whatever the station should be and back, sorted. Seriously, just running the rail line along existing right of ways solves So many problems (whether those right of ways are intended for rail or road, and whether the rail is running in the median or elevated over whatever's already there) that otherwise prevent railways even being built... But it's still a silly place to put a station.

[@DiegoMagengo]

Better than nothing, good point

[@karlpiepenburg127]

Plus the Dan Ryan line runs close to the Green Line (old South Side L) and took away more than half its riders

[@ostellan]

To be honest coming from a guy from south east Asia my first introduction to these types of station was from GTA V and I thought to myself "these have got to be a fictional thing, there is no way these type stations exist."

[@mcsomeone2681]

I saw one for the first time in Colorado, I couldn't believe my eyes either even to a 14 year old with zero transit or urban knowledge I could tell they were badly designed.

[@jrt2792]

I know exactly what station you're talking about. Hell, I even went to Los Angeles and there was quite a few of the exact types of stations.

[@jequirity1]

The nearest train station to me has a platform underneath a freeway overpass, running alongside yet another highway. Ah, LA, how I despise you.

[@bl1zz4rd25]

Dami nito sa Manila halos lahat na station pero pasagabal iyong mga station kasi pataas pa tapos kinakain iyong pedestrian lanes at napeperwisyo na iyong mga commuter sa ganun .

[@jonathantan2469]

These are quite common in Malaysia's metro area of Kuala Lumpur. Many elevated LRT stations are built right over stroads & highways, as there is no empty space in the road median. The stations are also quite massive & forboding, like something from a Denis Villeneuve dystopian sci fi. Being elevated, they cast a very large shadow over pedestrians, drivers, and motorcyclists below. It's also quite alienating being inside some of these as they are completely enclosed. Picture a giant suspended rectangle box of concrete, tile, & aluminium cladding with an elevated rail track through it...

[@wipis59]

As a kid I went past this station many times as our father took us to our grandmother's house. Even as a suburban kid I saw that station and thought "what is the point of making a station like that?"

[@danieldaniels7571]

Your father always took you there in his car, huh?

[@npip99]

@@danieldaniels7571 Yeah that was his point. The train in the middle of a highway is crappy.

[@Retroist2024]

​@@npip99and it is slow You can see the cars outside moving faster than your crappy train

[@jamesparson]

You need to visit the C (Green) line in Los Angeles. Almost the whole thing is in the middle of a freeway. Two of them are in the middle of interchanges.

[@electro_sykes]

yeah and theres always that guy whos always high.

[@qjtvaddict]

It should become a driverless service

[@samueldemetriades4319]

new intro is fire

[@jokacohnad3357]

Love some king gizz

[@storey13]

I’ll never forget the Chicago Blue Line. It is where I slipped on ice on the ramp down to the trains (Medical District stop) and bruised some ribs. Ah memories.

[@bootmii98]

Did they take you to a hospital? It's right there...

[@jamesparson]

Good times, good times.

[@louiszhang3050]

I live in the DC area, where we just spent over $6 billion putting a train down a highway median. At least they had one brain cell and decided to take the line out of the highway so that it can serve an up and coming mixed-use development called Tysons Corner, but it's still frustrating looking at it. There's an amazing mixed-use development near its route called Reston, and if the metro line was moved 0.5 miles north, it would be able to serve that place very well. Instead, it's a 15 min walk on narrow sidewalks past car infrastructure and bus connections come every hour. I've never seen the station well used.

[@scottydude456]

Well at least the Chicago Blue line gives a way better transit connection from the airport to downtown than anything NY has 😢

[@jrt2792]

Actually, JFK Airport has a train system that connects to the subways.

[@ahsanurr4219]

Haven't you heard of airtrain to JFK Airport? You can take a Q70 bus to LGA Airport in a straight way without paying fares.

[@adrianwitzburg6123]

The LIRR is pretty fast imo.

[@scottydude456]

@@adrianwitzburg6123 ok but imagine when you got off the Port Authority didn’t try to scam you, and you were already at the airport.

[@mrjuicejunior]

If you were talking about EWR, there is an already NJ transit line from the NY Penn Station

[@ch4.hayabusa]

50 seconds in and I've already seen a nightmare. Hell is real, it's that station.

[@kota1471]

Atleast y'all got trains, here in Brazil almost all passenger lines were deactivated on the '70s

[@IznbranahlGoose]

LOL.. I used to take that station for years.

[@can72287]

Right. It’s not terrible. It has a sick view of the skyline and the density of northern liberties. The rest of the line is mostly elevated. Plus, you enter it at street level and since 95 is elevated, it’s not like you see 95 from the street. Chicago has it far worse; that’s our only highway station.

[@can72287]

Right. It’s not terrible. It has a sick view of the skyline and the density of northern liberties. The rest of the line is mostly elevated. Plus, you enter it at street level and since 95 is elevated, it’s not like you see 95 from the street. Chicago has it far worse; that’s our only highway station.

[@can72287]

Right. It’s not terrible. It has a sick view of the skyline and the density of northern liberties. The rest of the line is mostly elevated. Plus, you enter it at street level and since 95 is elevated, it’s not like you see 95 from the street. Chicago has it far worse; that’s our only highway station.

[@RagnarokiaNG]

It feels like these highway stations are purposefully designed to try to stop people wanting to get on / off at them, as if they are there purely to tick a box but they hate the idea of doing it.

[@SuperSpyKindaGuy]

in my experience its because a bunch of suburbanites who use their car for 100% of everything are the ones planning that stuff for the rest of us to use. Just rich out of touch ppl screwing it up for the rest of us, as usual.

[@choonblaze]

Welcome to Muricahh!!

[@laurencefraser]

I suspect it's more that the railway runs down the median for entirely reasonable and practical reasons, they get to a point where they need a station... and then the Budget arguments start. And the NIMBYs. And yes, probably some people who just don't want a train being built at all. I suspect it's less 'check a box they don't want to' and more 'this was the most we could get past the opposition to having anything at all' a lot of the time. Or just non-awareness by those making the decision that this is actually a bad design.

[@nicolaspalacios5285]

If the CTA bus line actually dropped people off AT the station instead of a block away it would be 10x more accessible. A little bit of walking isn't that bad for people who don't have a hard time walking. For those that do... this train station might as well be in Peoria.

[@eso1917]

I can see someone didn’t comprehend the video

[@denniscarr9234]

Too bad you didn't wait a few months and visit Chicago in February to stand on those platforms. That's the true experience. Also, speaking of Chicago, it's worth noting what I see and the second worst way to build a train station, which is by running the line down the freight right-of-way through an industrial corridor so that the stops are surrounded by industry, parking, empty lots, and strip malls, and you need to take a bus to get to/from anywhere livable. See the Orange line.

[@riroo8275]

The thing that's particularly frustrating about Spring Garden, as someone who used it on a daily basis for several years, is how *fixable* its problems are, or perhaps somewhat more accurately, how badly PennDOT decisions to save a buck have hampered the station's usability for generations. If the highway were on a trestle, instead of an embankment, then you could at least stick retail under that trestle, such as in Japan. If PennDOT were willing to relinquish ROW you could also add a nice big modern new headhouse at 2nd and SG, which would at least make the experience of accessing the platforms less awful than it currently is. And so on. Spring Garden is an important junction between the El and Kensington bus lines--the 5, 25, and 43 if I remember correctly--so this is a great example of a place were you would want to invest in improving ridership by making it, like, not actively punitive to transfer from the train to a bus there. But that would require actually extracting concessions from PennDOT's traffic engineers, and as we all know, traffic engineers are always right, especially when they're (as they usually *are*) dead wrong.

[@nigelhudson1948]

If you want to see median transit lines done properly look at Perth WA. The stations are postioned at interchanges and are enclosed to cut down traffic noise. They generally have car parks and always have bus stops, cab ranks and pick-up/drop-off points. That way they become proper transport nodes for the surrounding area.

[@jacktattersall9457]

And there was really no other right of way available for the Jodallup and Mandurrah Lines. They even leave the highway to serve the centres of some suburban towns.

[@jfwfreo]

Most of these stations have great bus connectivity as well with a good bus network design (so its easy to catch the bus to the station and transfer to a train into the city or vice versa)

[@VhenRaTheRaptor]

Mind you those lines are a bit on weird side. Huge station spacings.

[@jfwfreo]

@@VhenRaTheRaptor The bigger station spacings are actually a good thing in this instance. Allows the trains to be nice and fast (since it doesn't need to stop so frequently) and with the location of the stations and the good bus connectivity, the distance between stations works.

[@JamesHenstridge]

​@@VhenRaTheRaptor The Joondalup line train runs it's entire 41 km route in 37 minutes. In contrast, the older Fremantle line with closer stops is about half as long and takes 30 minutes. Combine this with the connecting bus services that run between stations and serve the local area, and the system works quite well. You can take a fast service for most of your journey, and transfer to a slower bus service for the final leg if needed.

[@technikleo3797]

This type of station is rare in Europe but there's one big example of it in France : Val de Fontenay RER E station, which is located in the middle of the A86 highway. Actually, the highway was built after the rail line. This setup is a problem because nowadays, this part of the station can't be expanded due to this situation. The access are also complicated since people can only access the RER E platforms by walking down the RER A platforms(which are located perpendicularly to the highway). Due to this, intercity trains can't stop at this station because they can't stop a the high platforms the RER trains require, while it is located in a big business district and it is a big interchange with RER A now and Métro 1 and 15 and Tramway 1 in a few years.

[@grahamturner2640]

And Amsterdam has quite a few of its own (e.g., Amsterdam Zuid).

[@tyranicus2338]

In Germany we also have one in between a very loud highway in Essen. Actually it´s two but one is for busses only. Once you are in the train it´s alright but outside it´s hell as the highways is put in quite a funnel to lower noise emmision for the people living at the side of it. U18 in Essen and the bus line 146 in Essen between the A40.

[@CZminecraftvideos]

Well for Europe we should consider that highways in american cities are main routes to get around the citie itself, we usually use that kind of roads just for city bypasses. European traffic arteries are more similar with american boulevards (4 or 6 lane max most of the time). Second and even more important, most of European cities are not build for cars as the only way of transportation. Urban planning of station neighborhood consider pedestrians needs. That makes even this type of stations worth it.

[@therealdave06]

There are also a couple in the Rhein-Ruhr area

[@falsemcnuggethope]

Luckily there's a simple solution. Tear down the highway.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Not exactly highway median stations, but the Bayonne stations of the HBLR are right next to NJ Route 440. This is because much of the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail uses old right-of-way that was already established for rail that came before the highway. In the case of the Bayonne stations, it uses old Central Railroad of New Jersey right-of-way and runs alongside Conrail freight trains. Now despite being along a highway, it's not all that bad. 45th St has no parking lot and the west side of 45th St is all apartments, so for those who live nearby, it's a simple walk to the station. 8th Street station was supposed to be a 50-spot park and ride, but they drastically changed it to just 10, and 8th Street's building was inspired by the old CNJ station there. The "Defining the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Catchment Area" report from January 2019 was done by the NJDOT is a thorough survey on the system with charts on ridership and how people got to the stations and according to the report for the Bayonne stations, nearly 14 percent got to 45th Street by car, 24 percent got to 34th Street by car, 24 percent got to 22nd Street by car, and 15 percent got to 8th Street by car. Now it doesn't sound bad at first, but when compared to extremely low percentages like 1.1 percent for 2nd Street or 2.2 percent for Jersey Ave, then it is! 34th Street uses its 440 location as a huge park and ride, and it's even served by a MTA bus to Staten Island, the only MTA bus route that terminates in NJ.

[@johnclement5903]

Glad to see a fellow Jersey Boy on these message boards. We are actually spoiled here in NJ. A train to Newark/NYC is never more than a few short minutes' drive. Thats because back in the day, there were so many competing RRs providing service from NYC to PA. This massive overbuilding is why we now have so many NJ Transit lines.

[@jackstrobe]

The video talks about the Roosevelt Blvd extension into Northeast Philly. I grew up in Philly, and that extension has been on the drawing board for more than 50 years! They even built a subway station under a Sears that was under construction in the sixties in anticipation of building this extension. Sears is long gone and whatever is left of this station must look like some ancient Egyptian tomb. In my opinion, that extension will never be built. It is just something that politicians like to talk about but not actually do anything about!

[@elizabethdavis1696]

Please consider doing a video on Japanese train stations that double as malls and grocery stores!

[@LMB222]

Most urban stations - not suburban - serve as something more, like a bank, grocery store, services like a hairdresser and so on. I mean, this isn't a Japanese peculiarity.

[@Sosski]

You can see that in nyc no need to go to Japan…

[@hhvhhvcz]

I'd even argue forgoe Japan and see the stuff they do in Hong Kong or Taiwan where they turn every free m2 for retail.

[@invention64]

Copenhagen has a bunch of these too. It just makes sense to put high density commercial areas right next to a station.

[@thegrandaviator8308]

Many Mass Transit Railways in (mainly in asia) large cities (excluding the US) have stations inside of major malls that are usually large transferring stations. Examples of this include Central (HK MTR), Admrialty (HK MTR), People's Plaza (Shanghai Metro), Guomao (Beijing Subway), Kowloon (HK MTR), Century Avenue (Shanghai Metro), Kokkai-gijidō-mae Station (Tokyo Metro)

[@MultiRanman]

As an escaped native Philadelphian, I love what you are doing. Your humor is entirely Delaware Valley scented. Putting my money where my mouth is, I just became a patron. Please, make more.

[@tehjamerz]

Cringe

[@PickleRicksFATASSCOUSIN]

@@tehjamerz you're not that guy bub.

[@JhonnyMichel]

I love when the Urban Design and Cities Skylines communities get together lol

[@improvisedlogic]

Sim city boomer here. Remember playing it on my brothers computer on dos lmao.

[@homie7218]

​@@improvisedlogicnobody asked lil bro

[@serena-yu]

I believe Sydney metro of Australia has done a decent job. Even with the line T8 which runs in parallel with the M5 arterial driveway, it stays off the road at a distance of 1 bock of houses and parks. Therefore, each station developed a community with a commercial district around them.

[@haj8579]

As an East Asian, it is a kind of shocking that a NIMBY toward a metro line is a thing in North America, even if it is an underground one.

[@razkrunk3169]

Homeowners are the most petty tyrants when it comes to any public policy that doesn't directly and immediately benefit them.

[@jarjarbinks6018]

Bel air and the sepulvada line…

[@john2g1]

Funny thing about East Asia... Countries tend to be much more monolithic ethnicity wise so the "discrimination" presents itself differently than I don't want a train. Not to mention train ridership is not seen as a low class distinction.

[@jamesparson]

It is worse than that. Building underground is 5x to 10x as expensive. Sometimes they will argue a line MUST be underground. They know full well there isn't enough money to pay for that. So 10 years is spend studying an underground route. And the project has to get cancelled because there is no money for the underground route. I don't mean the underground part is cancelled, the whole thing is cancelled.

[@mitchellb4551]

its all rooted in people's property value and a vailed excuse for classism and racism that come out when you start mentioning brining people of all $$ status together on a train

[@user-uh3tg9is5v]

"Have to walk under this dingy bridge" Bro, that bridge has party lights underneath 😂

[@can72287]

😂 I call it lipstick on a pig!

[@mcsomeone2681]

I always love seeing stuff like that, it just shows the city knows how uninviting, hostile, and inhospitable these places are but chooses to just ignore it and try to fix the problem with some fancy paint or lights.

[@gendergoop]

if you were to walk under it in person those party lights are actually rather depressing. they flash like it’s a cry for help

[@FunCompany]

Did not expect to hear The River in an urbanism video, such a pleasant surprise. Also nice PetroDragonic Apocalypse vinyl @6:52

[@bkanpie2220]

K G L W

[@jcngokai-76]

Philadelphia is not alone, Bay Area’s BART station at Castro Valley also has a station in the middle of the freeway

[@July1st1867]

Im convinced Toronto is the only city thaf does freeway median stations decently. Has barriers to block some car noise and the stations have frequent bus routes feeding the stations, 3 of them have bus terminals attached, Eglinton West above where the tracks are, Lawrence West which has a floating bus terminal built over the highway, Yorkdale kinda, ut has a GO Regional Bus station next to the station under a major mall and Wilson which has a double decker terminal partially under the station

[@illiiilli24601]

> have bus terminals attached Wait, is this not standard? Out of 23 highway median stations in Perth, 20 have full bus stations/terminals attached. Unfortunately they don't really time their train and bus connections but yeah, sounds like that low bar is still better than most NA highway median stations. Iirc, most of them also have barriers for noise, but I don't remember, as I usually take a different line.

[@magnabaddelta-thriller5603]

Actually Montreal is catching up with its REM

[@__init__3493]

And the one that doesn't have a bus terminal (Glencairn) is the prettiest to make up for it

[@jbirzer]

I'd argue DC Metro does it well too. They are pretty good at putting noise barriers around those stations, and there has been a big focus on developing around these stations in recent years.

[@treebush]

Now that you mention it, you really don’t hear the highway and car noise really when you near those station

[@williambruan7319]

The highway median station near me is the end of the line of the Baltimore metro and serves as a park and ride for ppl living further in the suburbs. 10 years ago you had to walk about a mile to get to any shopping. Now there's a main street right next to it with restaurants, a library, and apartments with the other side being redeveloped for office space. Probably not the most ideal way to design transit though.

[@GalladofBales]

For sure. This is definitely why any transit is better than no transit. It would be cool if the US could just design shit right in the first place, but in lieu of that at least we can do infill development later to fix our mistakes.

[@cheef825]

​@@GalladofBalesOng fr, if it's there we can fix it but we need to have the infrastructure in the first place lmao

[@DavidJamesHenry]

In Los Angeles, you can tell the C Line is old because not is it the only line connecting communities in South Central, it is also almost entirety made up of stations in the median of the 105.

[@mschrage618]

This was really interesting. My city has a few of these, and as a car user, I never really noticed them or considered why they might be a problem.

[@GojiMet86]

The new Chicago Red Line extension will move off the highway and will mostly follow the Union Pacific ROW, splitting off after Michigan Avenue. So it's a plus there. In hindsight, it might have been a plus that the Horace Harding and the Van Wyck expressways in Queens weren't built wide enough for future NYC subway extenstions.

[@Tindog81476]

Ooooh I lived in Chicago for a while and always took the redline, I actually hadn't heard anything about this. That's so cool!

[@nyrmetros]

What's the deal with the Horace Harding Expressway??

[@martincruz8319]

Updating GojiMet86's comment, the Red Line Extension is one step closer to becoming a reality. By 2029, it'll be in the Far South Side of Chicago and, IMO, it should be a "game-changer" for everyone living in the Far South Side and visitors to the Windy City.

[@rwboa22]

To let you know about the MFL Spring Garden and Girard stations, both are serviced by SEPTA bus or trolley routes. The only major problem with Spring Garden station is the lack of an elevator, which SEPTA has plans of adding in the future. As for the MFL at Spring Garden, the line existed before I-95 and is adjacent to the city's Northern Liberties neighborhood.

[@maneatingsquirel]

Love the intro and the effort you made! Shout to Diana! Her channel is awesome. I would let the opening credits linger a second or so longer. I'm not the fastest reader and the text went by before I had a chance to fully take in what I was reading. Keep up the great work!

[@vitothepizzaguy7475]

Thanks for telling me, I'll keep this in mind when I build my next train line

[@davidburns8113]

Awesome video! I always wondered why the spring garden station would have almost no pickups and Girard was packed when I got off there and that just makes so much sense.

[@APJTA]

The thing about the REM is that it shares the Champlain bridge with the highway, which is a necessity for Montreal transit, and it's currently a suburban commuter line. The portions that will be built in the city won't be highway median stations. One of the stations you show, du Quartier, was built to have access to the Dix30 shopping mall, which is next to the highway. Generally speaking, I'm OK with new service to suburbs being built through the highway. It's different when you're in the city. And the Blue Line in Chicago is just egregious.

[@APJTA]

@@w.6a72 I think long-term there might be a push to bury the highway, which would allow the area around the station to be optimized. For the time being, we're seeing a lot of density being developed east of the station.

[@qfa330]

Stations in the middle of Freeways can be done well.. Perth Western Australia has done this very well in ensuring that the majority of the stations are bus interchanges as well. There is also plenty of parking and not many long distances to walk to get to these stations

[@CamdenBloke]

I grew up in the suburbs, and always thought they looked really interesting and cyberpunk when passing in a car, particularly at night. When I got older, for visiting Chicago I would often park in Oak Park in the free upper-class neighborhood parking near the Frank Lloyd Wright home/museum, and then use the CTA for my adventures. A few times I landed at one of those stations with a highway median, and it always felt a bit adventurous - especially if I was alone or with a friend coming back from Neo, and we were all dressed up and the wind was blowing at us. The red line was totally my jam.

[@ambroiseimbert]

These types of stations are rather uncommon in Europe. In Belgium, where I live, I can count them on the fingers of one hand.

[@ambroiseimbert]

In fact the only ones I can think of are Delta and Demey stations on the Brussels Metro...

[@guydreamr]

That's because Europeans stayed smart.

[@peperoni_pepino]

Haha of course you can find them in Belgium. 😆 I have never seen a station like this in Europe.

[@Sammie1053]

Not to be rude, but of course they are. "This kind of poorly designed public transit that's common in the US is incredibly rare in Europe" is a statement on par with "the sky is blue" in terms of how obvious it is

[@mfbfreak]

Amsterdam has a bunch, but i don't really mind them. Amsterdam Zuid is in the middle of the Ring Amsterdam, but i feel that it's a well designed station that's easily accessible by foot or bicycle. Same goes for Amstelveenseweg, but that's located above an underpass for another road so that's also a station easy to reach by tram, bus and bicycle. From there you can easily walk to the nearest residential area or the university too. Neither of those is in the middle of a asphalt wasteland, because the whole highway is raised above city level so there are underpasses everywhere. There is also a similar setup but with a tram line, from Amsterdam Lelylaan to the very 1960s suburb of Osdorp. But that's also a road that's mostly above city level, so underpasses everywhere which make a convenient place to build a tram stop because people use that underpass anyway, and it's just one set of stairs to get up to the tram stop. The newest metro line (Noord-Zuidlijn) has stations between the lanes of the provincial road feeding into Amsterdam. I have to say that i've barely ever used those. I pass one of them on the regular, it has a bus stop right above it, and is easily accessible by bicycle from either of the residential areas next to it. Using it was completely uneventful which is why i don't remember any of the details. That said, that provincial road is only 2x 2 lanes, in a huge trench so any foot and cycle traffic stays level. You can look out of the window of one of the residential areas, and look towards the other side, without actually seeing the road. Only where the city sort-of ends, the highway and metro line are level with the rest of the buildings. In short: even in the middle of a highway they can work, but only when really designed properly.

[@averagejoe6031]

I love this higher production value! Absolutely keep up the great work. I love the colab as well. I’d happily wait a little longer btw vids for ones like this, but algorithm gonna algorithm ig

[@GriffenDoesIt]

The intro graphics are so clutch! Thanks for putting this together. The LA Green line always bugged me but I couldn't always articulate why it's so bad

[@Pensyfan19]

Good video. Although I agree that placing stations in highway medians isn't the best option, placing long distance intercity or high speed lines in highway medians is a much better idea (as in dedicated segments of tracks without stations inbetween), since most interstate highways are straight and have plenty of unused space that could hold two or four track main lines in their medians and therefore wouldn't require too much new construction. Nice collaboration with Diana as well. City Skylines should be a prerequisite for all urban planning related positions.

[@DavidJim365]

Agree. Putting some branch lines split from highway for passing by town or city central access would be also helpful.

[@KerbalRocketry]

Actually it's worse, the noise level for the wait times of long distance trains is not acceptable, and you can't fit the number of platforms needed between highways. put the highways underground if you really want to put a station in that spot, or better just close them since the rail station can take the traffic instead.

[@sazanadora565]

​@@KerbalRocketry Platform screendoors, Noise barriers...

[@cheef825]

​@@KerbalRocketrynah it's totally fine as long as the line deviates for the stations

[@jan-lukas]

Here in Germany HSR lines are usually kept more or less next to a highway. In the middle is not the best idea as construction is much more difficult that way

[@nmx0014]

Thank you so much for covering Chicago. Another thing is that because these stations are on the highway, the state DOT has more control over them (pardon phrasing, idk the details enough). It is insanely difficult to get any work done on highway median lines. To give a sense of how shit things were, we got new 7000 series rolling stock to run on the blue line. However, we couldn't even run the previous 5000 series on that branch because the tracks were too old to handle it. Thankfully a rebuild project just started, but I felt insane knowing the reasons of why service deteriorated while everyone else was yelling "transit bad." I really do feel like things will improve. The deterioration of the Forest Park branch, the construction of that highway, and etc get even worse when you know how disinvested west side communities have been. Same thing for the south. It always blew my mind that the red line doesn't extend all the way south, so there are still communities down there with no access to rapid transit. Coupled with the common doomerist perspective on Chicago, just having someone explain these issues accurately means so much.

[@mcsomeone2681]

The dot is so frustrating, if it was up to me the entire organization would be disbanded and reformed.

[@thomasnewton8223]

The section they’re repairing felt fast already in comparison to many other sections of the forest park branch. The whole area is a in complete disregard. At least steps are being taken in the right direction but of course the improvements end where the black communities start.

[@nmx0014]

​@@thomasnewton8223 I'm not sure if I know exactly which repaired section you are talking about, but yes it is unfortunately correct that the improvements end there. I want to praise every improvement project, but when they're all in the north side and white communities it makes me a bit... What angered me most recently is that so many I talk to do not care about the forest park branch's condition, specifically because they do not care about the entire west side. It is talked about as if no one lives there, and only the NW is important. The way black communities are ignored so heavily ends up as widespread disregard, even when unintentional by some people.

[@matthewhallberg8256]

The 5000 series is terrible, and should be retired as soon as possible

[@maxasaurus3008]

We’ve a bunch of these here in Denver as well, lots of walking to use them, not my favorite either. Great vid!

[@guybeauregard]

Great content, nicely explained. Thank you!

[@naturallyherb]

Always a great day when Alan uploads something new!

[@etbadaboum]

Fantastic production! Well done.

[@scottydude456]

If I had to wait at a freeway station on my way to school/work in New York, I would have been put in an insane asylum by now

[@ntrainride]

why? and, there is almost no limited access highway feasible for the inclusion of a new transit system anyway. plus, nyc in particular has no need for it.

[@rossmillington]

Have a look at Australian cities, especially Perth Metronet. Over 130km of heavy, electrified rail in the median of the nth /sth freeway with 2 level accessibility interchanges with buses, car parks and bicycle lock ups, with wind breaks/ covered platforms that win national design awards. Town centres and shopping centres nearby and planned for. Retrofitting of legacy inner city section with uninterrupted bicycle path that will be over 140km when completed.

[@kierannelson2581]

And the catchment is still small which is the problem. It's car oriented design and Perth is absolutely car oriented.

[@MahadHunter]

​@@kierannelson2581Perth to some extent or another is going to be car oriented, because of its population, relative density and distance to other urban centres. It doesn't excuse the car centric infrastructure you see in some parts of the city. But if you look at Perth as a whole, it has a great network for the density it has, and TOD is on the rise.

[@kierannelson2581]

@@MahadHunter sure, however that's what's important, getting density near stations. Median rail is the antithesis to this and will be a problem if ever Perth wants to reduce its car reliance

[@jonathantan2469]

Ha... I mentioned this in another comment. In fact, with the letters "AU" in the top left of the video's thumbnail, I thought he'd be using Perth as an example.

[@thevannmann]

@@kierannelson2581 The problem is that the only real alternative is to tunnel through suburban land which is very expensive. With the current approach, town centres and density can be built nearby.

[@Ostermond]

NYC is lucky not to have these sorts of median stations. Just simply the worst.

[@RBzee112]

Older cities like NYC and Boston don't really have the room for these. But, as a native New Yorker, it's upsetting to think about the neighborhoods that were demolished to build the highways that crisscross the Bronx.

[@maroon9273]

Most of the highway are narrow and tight to have them including Boston which much tighter/narrow than NYC. I wish the CBE was never built and had a passenger/freight train lines instead. Replace with a tunnel crossing between Tappan zee and GWB.

[@Ostermond]

@@RBzee112 Moses, parting the neighborhoods.

[@Aar0nDavis]

I visited Chicago back in June for a cousin's wedding and took the blue line into the city from the AirB&B that I was staying at. It was an interesting experience. Thank you for making this video. It reminded me of my time there.

[@tippytoes2133]

I have fond memories of the UIC Halsted Blue Line stop when I lived a few blocks away. Walking down that ramp in the middle of winter will change you.

[@jackgamer6307]

I would love to see a video on the train network of hungary. On paper extensive, but in practice it's basically left to rot under the wheels, half of it not even electrified

[@friedzombie4]

I feel like Adam Something is better suited for that considering he's Hungarian.

[@jackgamer6307]

@@friedzombie4 Maybe a collab?

[@jamesparson]

What if I told you in the North America, we were maybe 2% electrified. That might be too high.

[@jackgamer6307]

@@jamesparson Well Hungary is in europe, where almost all trains are full, electric. I know it must be hard for feet counting lard balls to understand electricity, but half the rail being diesel only is actually a big issue in more civilised places

[@jamesparson]

@@jackgamer6307 100% agree

[@Sly88Frye]

I was just introduced to your channel with this video and I don't know why I had never thought about this. Maybe I just am not really into how transit systems work but this makes perfect sense. Maybe perhaps I had been too used to driving a car and didn't really have to think about it when I drove by train tracks and stations that were in the middle of the freeway, but now that I am seeing it for the perspective of somebody who wants to actually go on one of those trains wow that does look awful

[@rudraguin]

I am so glad you made this video @alanthefisher!! I myself often times wondered if highway-median metro systems are great, since they are surrounded by car traffic a lot, not to mentioned how loud it can get, and make transit-oriented development (TOD) far less practical! I absolutely enjoy watching your videos a lot Alan, as well as videos by @RMTransit regarding transit and how to build transit properly for TOD and eliminating car use. I myself dislike car-dependent life a lot, and really enjoy car-free life! You know, it is interesting how this idea of highway-median metro systems were also used in Australia, more specifically for moden suburban rail systems rather as it is in the case of Perth, Western Australia. I even rewatched 2 of @RMTransit's videos on Australian transit, specifically their solutions to transit problems and the one for Perth's Transperth Trains network, which talk a lot about highway-median trains: - kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4Dai3RmbNV7d80 (How This Country Might Have the Solution to Suburban Transit) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3mUnKmOrdN1n7M (A Small City with a Big Rail Network! | Railways of Perth Explained) Building metro systems, or even suburban train systems, in highway-medians definitely adds a way for trains to travel more quickly along high-speed car traffic corridors rather than having to make way for brand new railway lines by bulldozing buildings and acquiring land, but it definitely makes TOD not as likely to happen. And as we move towards a more carbon-neutral life to combat climate change and reduce the amount of cars we have, allowing for more transit use, walkability, and even bikability, I think reducing stroads and building train systems along those are truly a better solution than building them along highway medians. I'm so glad you made a video about this topic @alanthefisher, I always wondered about this.

[@jlozano90]

I feel Los Angeles and PE are going "what am I, an ignored transit system?" LA was doing this back in the beginning, specifically for the 101. The 105 is another exam of a freeway with the green line light rail metro running down the median.

[@xavierwilliams4119]

I actually like median stations. Washington DC wmata systems are the same, especially in Virginia, but just like Montreal, the wmata has a local city bus station at each station along with offices, dining, shopping & luxury apartments right next to the median stations.

[@jonathantan2469]

In many cases, they are a cost effective drop-in solution for an already built lower density location where there is a highway. One transit project I'm working on in Australia is building a new train line for an area of sprawling suburbs which historically had no rail access. The highway median is the only practical place they could build it. As some of the stations are next to a road-highway interchange, they are also building park-n-ride facilities.

[@xavierwilliams4119]

@@jonathantan2469 that's the wave of the future.

[@jodij2366]

​@@jonathantan2469, I assume you are referring to the Ellenbrook Line in Perth.

[@T.A.W]

Don't forget the pervasive vehicle exhaust and the dirt.

[@gonesnake2337]

And the openness to the weather. Even if you're only out on the platform for a short while as you board or disembark a train that's a huge, flat, wide expanse on all sides. All the heat, wind, dust, dirt, cold, rain, or snow is coming at you unabated from any direction at all times.

[@T.A.W]

@@gonesnake2337 Oh, right, and I forgot being in the middle of a giant concrete heat sink in the summer.

[@sardu55]

I remember them as a kid in Chicago going down the middle of the Dan Ryan Exp. In the 60s. Mayor Daley was a big fan of this type station. He loved them.

[@algonquintraveler]

I dig the new production & appreciate the effort!

[@jacktattersall9457]

Having nothing but a jersey barrier and barbed wire to separate the station from highway traffic is crazy. Toronto Subway Line 1 has some highway median stations on 'Allen Road' but they are roomed over with fully encasing glazing or concrete walls and roofs over both the tracks and platform(s). And of course, in accordance with strict TTC policy, there is a big bus loop or multiple bus stops (typically within the fare gates) next to the overpass/underpass entrance to the station.

[@willardSpirit]

I don't mind rails running in the middle of the highway IF it's just transiting to different stations if there's no alternative way. but having a station in the middle of the highway is weird

[@virajjoglekar4337]

OMG wow, i love Diana. It was like a bonus when her name appeared. Please keep featuring her. You got a follow

[@jrt2792]

I remember back in '18 I wanted to catch a Lyft at Spring Garden Station and somebody left behind a #2 mess at the bottom of the stairs.🤮

[@deinemudda1049]

It's quite a feeling of superiority to experience the same thing, while being a polar opposite. I'm talking about Amsterdam Zuid and Noord

[@kennethpinder7983]

Philadelphia's Spring Garden St Station was a replacement of the Fairmount st station built with I-95. There was a lot of housing in the area when it was built. The area adapted to car culture. Much as our society has.

[@CityNerd]

This is all well and good, but what I wanna know is where can I get an AU-branded easy chair

[@ArcLyn]

Did not expect to hear king gizz today but I'm always glad when I do! Thanks for making a video on these stations, I hate them so much.

[@bentoney9682]

How viable is it to transform stroads into something good?

[@theexcaliburone5933]

I agree with this question

[@Kattbirb]

Depending on size, a couple lanes can be reclaimed for buses and protected bike lanes.

[@GalladofBales]

From what I've seen, I think it's pretty viable. Some stroads would probably be wide enough you could fit a whole block of development in the middle imo (keep streets on either side that are one-way), but you could also transform some lanes into a tramway, or dedicated bus lane with signal priority. You could also take up more space on the stroad with fully separated, protected bike lanes. I think every stroad transformation also needs some greenery re-introduced. Lining a barren stroad with trees is a great way to reduce driving speeds and mitigate some of the urban heat island effect

[@winterwatson6811]

only politics is in the way. striata are inefficient in terms of maintenance costs and throughput capacity

[@winterwatson6811]

autocorrect hates stroads 😂

[@Dexter037S4]

The REM being built in the middle of the highway was actually a choice made for TOD and also the fact it's only one branch of many on the system, there aren't many major neighborhoods on that line, right now. Ottawa has a similar plan with the Line 1 and Line 3 expansions, they are building TOD on the much smaller highways in the East End (The 417 becomes the 174, which is essentially a Rural Road). In the West End, Barrhaven has grown to become essentially it's own city-within-a-city and it's terrible urban sprawl is starting to change, shopping centres are being turned into mixed use neighborhoods as of recently, with walkable duplex neighborhoods and apartments being built within 15 minutes walking distance from the shopping centre, which had a BRT busway built into it (I don't agree it should become part of the LRT system, as it's too curvy for it. Plus there's Fallowfield VIA Station, which is one of the best designed small stations in Canada, it may only be one track right now, but with HFR and the expansion of the current routing along with it, it'll become a major hub in the future. Ottawa may be making bad decisons, but when the Transit is built out, it should be able to be better than what it is. Then again, bus cuts are coming next year so this might all get canned.

[@carisi2k11]

Perth in Australia has made this exact same error. Putting rail lines down the centre of motorways.

[@Wadupitdog]

Oh snap awesome to see that you stopped by Lincoln Square in Chicago! Live nearby and absolutely love the area

[@spacepeanut]

king gizzard and the lizard wizard 👀

[@bbmikej]

I feel like the Metro Silver Line Extension helps solve a few of the issues of a median line. All the stations have bus bays to better connect the line with the surrounding community and most of the stations have developments being constructed around them with apartments, stores, and restaurants.

[@user-ko2ig2hh7r]

Honestly the median stations on the silver line aren't that much worse than the Tyson's stations with the 6-8 lane stroads and insane car dealerships.

[@mygins5820]

Wow you really steped up the production value with this one great video 😊

[@SilverStarHeggisist]

I always just thought these were like maintenance platforms for workers when I saw it driving around philly

[@iliketrains0pwned]

On a related note, what are your thoughts on using highway medians for regional and, hopefully, high speed rail lines? Considering how expensive it is to obtain new right-of-ways for railroads in the US, could this work as an alternative for expanding inter-city/transcontinental transit?

[@Navalator]

Nothing beats politically correct slum clearance than routing a highway through the undesirable neighbourhood.

[@bigsyrup8567]

God it’s so vile going through there on the freeway. Like if you break down, the macaco hordes will just rip you apart.

[@tyleralberico9340]

I love the new format!!

[@juno9179]

This video hits me right in the heart. I live in a pretty small country where the entirety of the intercity / suburban rail system has its stations either in the middle of a field or in a highway median. Like seriously, in the entire system there is just one single station that is nice to be in. The worst thing is theyre in the process of pretty much doubling the length of the system but in that entire project not one starion has anything around it but highway or field. Unbelievable.

[@BR218fan]

When I visited California a few years ago, I arrived at the Los Angeles Airport and used public transport as I am used to in european cities. So I had to change from the green line to the silver line at Harbor Freeway and it was a very unpleasant experience. This is also a multi-story highway-station in the middle of a highway junction and I have never been to a transit station this loud, stressful and uninviting. I mean, I was glad I was able to take public transport there, but I think it can be done much nicer. So, yes, I can absolutely see what you mean it does not feel human scale. Oh and when I recently visited Berlin, I found a station (Messe Nord) also in the middle of the 'Stadtautobahn', so it is surrounded by six lanes or so. This is also a very unpleasant but maybe a little quieter due to relatively low speed limits. And another thing I have noticed: Whenever I have seen a transit system powered by third rail, the power rail was always on the opposite side of the platform. This is done to reduce the risks of people getting shocked and injured if the accidently fall onto the tracks and want to climb back up the platform. You can see what I mean at 8:50. But what surprised me was to see the power rail on the side of the platform as seen at 0:39 Does anyone know why it was done this way in Philadelphia? In my opinion placing the third rail on the opposite side of the platform is way safer...

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

Boomers trying not to destroy the next generation challenge: Impossible.

[@JDjade1]

I don't mind Spring Garden so much, especially in the evening. Gave nice views of the Delaware....until they started building condos on the waterfront.

[@ukeemail]

TBMs are sooo expensive, and many of the highways are already a perfect near straight route. In my opinion there are some good cases for either center-of-motorway or adjacent/nearby to motorway once the train gets out of the city centre and dense suburban areas. Reminds me of one critical of train stations in industrial areas. Yes at the moment factory and shift workers don't catch transit they drive. However, the used to, and perhaps we should again in the future!!

[@milazinnia]

As an LA resident, I definitely understand the frustrations with stations placed in the middle of a freeway, as we have one of those, the C Line that almost exclusively runs through one. I feel conflicted about it because it was created early into LA Metro's lifespan (1995, along with the entire I-105 freeway) and it's construction was only really born because it was court ordered by LA County in the 80s (with pollution in the city at an all-time high) to include an LRT line along with a new freeway. Metro was able to maintain a few stations turning south leading into the South Bay area but it abruptly ends, halting many from using them. Those stations are being added to the new K Line this year, separating from the C Line, and adding two more stations is in the development stage with construction likely to start after 2028. Usability and practicality weren't first priority, and any/all improvements brought to the table during construction by local cities and LA Metro were swiftly dismissed by CalTrans because of the freeway budget taking up the majority of the limited state funding. The entire project was inflicted with other issues besides the C Line though, between unethical labor practices and tearing communities in half (forcing many residents and businesses to relocate), especially in lower income areas. The C Line's Harbor Fwy station is comparable to Spring Garden, in the middle of a massive loud interchange. It's pretty much exclusively used for people transferring downstairs to the J Line busway that runs through the I-110, rarely by people actually living around it as it's so isolated. There's also a pretty small number of C Line stations with them being a lot more spread out compared to most LRT in the area, again a reflection of working on it by force on a budget instead of by practicality. There's two main ways to improve ridership and right the previous wrongs. One is to extend it eastward beyond the freeway into Norwalk, connecting the line to an Amtrak/commuter rail station 2 miles away, and possibly beyond to La Mirada (a smaller city on the border of LA/Orange counties), most likely fully underground. Locals have approved of it whenever brought up, but with many other Metro projects happening it's been placed on the backburner until at least 2050. The second improvement would be to add more stations along the line, noting how some high-traffic roads like Western Ave., Alameda St., Atlantic Ave. and Bellflower Blvd. do not have stations. Metro has made no indication to do that, but I think it would improve ridership and usability even more as they are in densely populated areas and along many people's commute.

[@jlozano90]

The court ordered some sort of transit. RTD was looking at a bus way down the center, but decided to put in the light rail given the federal funding available.

[@milazinnia]

@@jlozano90I'm talking about Los Angeles Metro (LACTMA), not RTD in Denver? My knowledge on RTD is a lot more limited haha, but I'd love to learn more about it! But it's pretty clear that I mean the C Line in LA, and the plan for it being an LRT line dates back to the early 70s (when the freeway was first proposed to the public), there was nationwide gasoline shortages + immense air pollution concerns for the LA basin that was only starting to improve in the mid-90s. I wish LA had more heavy rail-type trains like RTD, CTA and MTA, but not having to deal with snow probably stopped that lol.

[@rapramix]

My city of Beersheba has its second, northern train station next to a road and a big parking lot. Furthermore, even the university is next to a stroad with a pedestrian bridge

[@skyeig]

There are stations like this on the WMATA Metrorail. Stations in the middle of a highway seem like just a waste, like they could put it anywhere BUT I-66 and Dulles access road.

[@sebastianbrauer608]

Hey Alan, big fan of the channel! Something that has come to mind recently similar to this topic is regarding freeways and transit. Lots of talk recently about freeway removal and freeway covers. I keep thinking about how just covering the highway and replacing it with a boulevard would be a massive waste of separated ROW for transit expansions for S-Bahn style suburban trains. The rail would obviously have a much narrower footprint allowing for development in the additional space. Thoughts on this? Any thoughts why this idea hasn’t been brought up on urbanist settings?

[@toddkes5890]

One idea for the train stations would be surrounding it with business locations, and then mixed residential/business. This way the residents get a bit of a buffer from any train noise, and anyone getting on/off from the trains sees plenty of places to spend money.

[@Mattanyahu]

Great video, and interesting insight for a European :) I remember using similar stations in Tel Aviv (Ayalon Highway) these are terrible there too. Also, I like the new intro!

[@jakesheridan2334]

I work in civil eng. and live in Philly and have been enjoying your content for some time now. But what really threw my enjoyment over the top was your use of this rendition of The River. Bravo & Cheers m8👏 🙏 Keep the good vids rollin

[@MrMtanz]

Counterpoint: the orange and silver lines in the VA side of the DC metro system have pretty good highway median metro stations within I-66. Easy to walk to, and they're spurring more TOD around them as well.

[@applesyrupgaming]

tysons being urbanized is a huge middle finger to njbs doomerism (fairfax county is planning to make a cloverleaf a regular street intersection)

[@jfmezei]

Inside station design also matters. Consider the Du Quartier station which some railfans says it is perfect becayse there is a condo being build to make it "TOD". All stations on that leg (Île des Soeurs, Panama, Du Quartier, Brossard) have the only exit on the south/east side of station. (they should have alrernated to have more distributed loading of passengers). They built the bridge for Du Quartier boulevard to be at the north/west edge of the Du Quartier REM station. So CDPQ had to put a door to let people in from that side. but that is the side where the mechanical equipment (fans, electrocal transformers etc) are. So there is a door and a narrow corridor that goes all the way to the other end of station where the fare gates are and people then walk back to get on trains. So even though there appears to be doors at both ends of station, the fare gates being only at one end means people entering from other end have to walk a lot more.