The Year Stealth Games Got Serious

[@duncanurquhart5278]

i appreciate how every single entry in the entire metal gear series was meant to be the last one EXCEPT the actual last one

[@RENZEENO]

@betia partouche those games were not canon or directed by hideo kojima though

[@shardofkingdoms9816]

@@RENZEENO portable ops is canon

[@RENZEENO]

@@shardofkingdoms9816 it looks canon but it's not really. Search it up. So all the stuff about grey fox etc is all scrapped and replaced with peace walker. Kojimas try a delete it from ever being canon kinda thing.

[@shardofkingdoms9816]

@@RENZEENO I know that, he went back on it and it’s now canon

[@RENZEENO]

@@shardofkingdoms9816 foreal? I didn't know that's mad

[@h4724-q6j]

1998 was in general a great year for games, with Half-Life, Unreal, Banjo-Kazooie, StarCraft, Fallout 2, Ocarina of Time, MGS, Thief, Crash Bandicoot 3, Rogue Squadron, Spyro and more all coming out in that one year.

[@lostmontanelas4236]

Crash was not that good of a game, a 3D plataform that barely take any advantage of the 3D, and has a realy weak level desining, terrible sense of depth and so on...

[@epiczeven6378]

Also... 1998 Carmageddon 2 (PC) 1998 Point blank 2 (ARCADE) 1998 Theme Hospital (PS1) 1998 Commandos behind enemy lines (PC) 1998 Twisted metal 3 (PS1) 1998 Resident Evil 2 (PS1) 1998 Grim Fandango (PC)

[@h4724-q6j]

@@lostmontanelas4236 Maybe (I wouldn't know) but it helped push forward the PlayStation.

[@patatica]

all yewels!!!! :)

[@SubjektDelta]

too bad it kinda went downhill from there..

[@PintsofGuinness]

i randomly met ken levine and his wife in an airport in boston, in about 2015. he was super friendly and actually talked with me for about a half hour. he was down to earth enough to let me nerd out about bioshock without making me feel awkward, but we also talked about all kinds of other stuff. great dude that makes great games.

[@uwirl4338]

That sounds amazing. Ken Levine is one of the best minds in the industry for sure. He'll probably be one of the most looked upon gamemakers from our times 20 or 30 years from now. If, y'know, there are still humans left.

[@PintsofGuinness]

Uwirlbaretrsidma. Yea I agree. Can’t wait to see what he’s been working on all these years

[@deetsitmeisterjd]

@@PintsofGuinness He made perception, the sort of horror game where you play a blind woman.

[@JeremyComans]

@@deetsitmeisterjd Deep End was founded by ex-Irrational staff, but Perception had nothing to do with Ken Levine.

[@JeremyComans]

@@PintsofGuinness Me too, and it has been a heck of a long time since he has said much of substance. February 2014 - Once the DLC for Infinite are complete, Irrational all but closes. In the following months Levine talks about infinitely replayable stories; his 'narrative lego'. Then silence. February 2017 - Irrational rebranded as Ghost Story Games or something. No news about what they're doing. Silence. It's been two years since then, almost six since Infinite. I hope we hear something soon.

[@Ammoniumbicarbonat]

After playing Thief The Dark Project last year, I can easily say it's one of my favourite games ever and it's aged like fine wine. The atmosphere, ambient sounds and Garrett's voice overs are just brilliant.

[@TheSphereHunter]

Thief is such a great game!

[@josiahgottschalk2312]

Yo I love your videos. Ultra Badass!

[@josiahgottschalk2312]

Have you ever tried Dishonored? If you haven't id definitely recommend it. It has an incredible amount of player choice if you like that type of game.

[@xgrillsenx]

Thief the dark project is truly amazing. Not only is it the best stealth game ever made, its one the best games of all time.

[@fenerliuzun4476]

You are such a great creator!

[@josiahgottschalk2312]

@@xgrillsenx should I try it if I like dishonored?

[@luizbastos5973]

I know that's not the main point of the video, but i just wanted to say your editing style is really good!

[@luizbastos5973]

@Tucker Elliott it's really cool to look back and realize how the content is improving

[@fl0wey57]

For me, my favorite editing part was the year transition between 1990 and 1998 in the beginning, seeing a bit of history of the games industries most prominent moments is a really nice sudden touch. Seeing Super Metroid in 1994, the game I literally finished today! -(still got to get the collectibles and rest of the endings)- As it's literally the second thing you see on the screen after the Nintendo logo, makes me mark this game in my memory just like it did when I first saw that date.

[@mustanaamiotto3812]

yes.

[@user-iq9ot5ju9d]

Great video Mark, but you failed to mention how Thief's sound design is still revolutionary even today, because almost no stealth games have tried to improve or even emulate it. Not even dishonored. In many games, you figure out if a guard is behind a door by looking through the keyhole, or even using a see through walls power. But Thief is so immersive to the point that pressing Garrett up against a door and using the lean button into the door will give you the ability to hear what is behind the door. This is really impressive. In Thief, you don't need a radar because of all the locational sound data coming out of your two speakers. You don't even have to see guards to avoid their locations, you just listen for when their footsteps start to become quieter, which signifies they are facing away from your current location.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

Really? I like Dishonored, but I have to say, the lack of informational powers is kind of an odd thing. You've only got dark vision and its upgrade in the original game, while 2 had a second upgrade that allowed you to see where enemies were going. That, and the base power is quite cheap, at 1/ 2 runes in the first/ second games, and combines several effects. You get night vision, can see representations of the sound you make, can see through walls and see short cones of enemy vision. I guess part of it was to focus on the action, but I think there is a real possibility to get into the details of information in stealth games. Like maybe you could make a game about blending in with a crowd and have the player hear their thoughts, or something. Assassin's Creed had the former, but you were so good at climbing and sword fighting (and the enemy guards were so patient and polite) it felt like you didn't have to use it all that much.

[@chrismulholland6202]

"to save you from watching a tiny box in the corner of the screen for the entire game" - I wish devs would consider this in open world 'exploration' games

[@Soumein]

Devs: Sooo… you want a BIG box in the corner of the screen?

[@Resistant396]

just the whole screen.

[@flavoredchin]

BOTW did a decent job showing suspicion, and even gave a small opening to dispatch enemies right after they notice you.

[@ketrub]

that's why i love Far Cry's huge arrows on the terrain instead of a gps

[@KuraIthys]

@@flavoredchin I don't think that's what the OP was talking about. More like how the average open world game forces you to stare at the minimap constantly. BOTW allows you to turn this off of course, but that's not a solution to the problem, just a way to change the gameplay (since you don't get a replacement for the mini map if you turn it off.)

[@GregoryFlynn]

I feel like 1997's Goldeneye deserves some mention, too, as a sort of midway point. That's the first game I personally recall playing that encouraged me to try to be stealthy.

[@ACEdeBASS]

I'm surprised there was no mention of Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines, which coincidentally was also released in 1998. Though I think it's described as a 'tactics' game and you control multiple characters, it heavily features stealth and has enemy vision cones.

[@muzboz]

Commandos was also a great stealth game, for sure.

[@Yungblut]

I was thinking the same! I was wondering if Commandos is well known outside spanish speaking countries.

[@StealthDocs]

I never got into the Commandos series, but developed a new appreciation for them when I started looking at tactical stealth games. Although a bit awkward to handle at first, the high-tension moments when infiltrating a base and pulling off the perfect sabotage was worth persisting for!

[@fenerliuzun4476]

@@Yungblut It has a considerable amount of followers in Turkey.

[@eugene7914]

@@Yungblut yup I think it was quite a big deal here in Russia too

[@Ashamedofmypast]

Theif is still one of the most intelligent stealth games ever designed, audio is magnificent and having to pay for good maps is something that should be common now.

[@epiczeven6378]

Gaming as a whole got serious in 1998 :D! Also, I think Commandos Behind Enemy Lines was a huge Stealth Game in 1998.

[@francosoler1756]

Awesome game

[@matiasblasi_music]

I'm currently playing it, but without saving between levels, it really gets interesting that way. Thief 1 feels beautifuly the same way.

[@clockwork204]

I was just about to mention this. Commandos is an awesome stealth / tactics game.

[@waveplay3978]

Thanks for mentioning it. Commandos is still a brilliant game, single-handedly establishing a new genre that has largely stayed the same until today. I hold Commandos in the same high regard as I do Thief.

[@epiczeven6378]

Brilliant Indeed, one of my childhood's favorite :)

[@Tiagofvarela]

Another stealth game that released in 1998 is Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines. Due to its top down perspective, it was different from the others shown here, but it too contained enemy view-cones and visual indicators for sound.

[@ShinoSarna]

It was also a strategy/tactical game.

[@mothersbasement]

Have you played the Styx series? It's sort of a blend between thief's open level design philosophy and assassin's creed's climbing mechanics. It's a bit janky, but if you haven't given it a shot I think you might really dig it.

[@mikelimakilokiloromeo]

oh wait I love those games ! worth lots of tryharding evenings

[@futurelink1359]

I like when I see youtubers I follow on video's of other youtubers I follow. I hope you do a new service announcement soon but I get that there's so much you are trying to do already. Keep up the great work man.

[@deetsitmeisterjd]

Styx are both fantastic games, with some great open ended stealth and some interesting mechanics and powers (slightly let down by the latter half of both games being the first halves levels just backwards)

[@totlyepic]

I was surprised to see something like The Swindle (which has gotten not-so-great overall reception) in the video but not Styx.

[@CaelumN0ctis]

Oh hell no. "a bit janky" is putting it very mildly. Painfully mediocre games - I could not for the life of me get into them.

[@blade9871]

Finally, some love my favorite PS1/PS2 stealth series: Tenchu.

[@rawbertdogler]

BRING TENCHU BACK IN 2019

[@xmus4023]

Seems very interesting if it wasn't for the dense dark field-of-view. Would be great if it was remastered.

[@hiperbird]

What... WHAT!? Miyazaki the madman, has helped creating two different genres.

[@binxmaster]

Only those who owned a PS1 knows of the legend

[@Faruq-xn4gj]

@@hiperbird Actually Miyazaki never working on Stealth games before Sekiro, what game genres Miyazaki have been working on is Mecha genre Armored Core: Last Raven but not as Director and as Director in Armored Core 4: For Answer, the other genre is Dark Fantasy like Demon's Soul, Dark Souls series, and Bloodborne as Director with exception Dark Souls 2.

[@Pablo_IF]

Mark, you forgot to mention the great "Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines" for PC, developed by Pyro Studios and published by Eidos also in 1998 :))

[@Omran_90]

Metal Gear was seriously a game from future. Most of the features presented in the game were new, unique and unusual. I mean you had to use controller 2 to fight a boss wth. There were so many more amazing ones. The details were extremely surprising and fun.

[@kevingriffith6011]

I used to call the playstation 1 era a golden age for the JRPG, but I'm starting to think it stretched into almost every genre. The technology was powerful enough to support genres that could never have existed before, the limits on the size of the game were cut back dramatically and it was basically open season for trying new things with the established gameplay rules of the previous generation. Don't get me wrong, the generations that came after were nothing to sneeze at, but the N64/Playstation 1 was a quantum leap in games hardware at the time.

[@jackgarcia5926]

I mean, not really? It was a super influential time for sure, but most games of that era aged like milk left in the sun. And a big reason for that is precisely because devs were experimenting like crazy, and they obviously made a lot of mistakes along the way. Heck ironically, the games that aged the best from the era are 2D games like SotN, Mischief makers, Klonoa etc. Try playing MGS nowadays, the game is hell. Kinda like NES like that, which also laid a ridiculous amount of bases for design, but SNES games in general are vastly superior. PS: Jrpg's peaked during the SNES era, Valkyrie profile not withstanding.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@jackgarcia5926I think our definitions of golden ages are a little different. I do agree that most of the games that came out then are borderline unplayable if they relied on the 3D graphics of the time and I also agree that some of the best JRPGs of all time were on the SNES, but the library of great to good JRPGs on the PS1 is significantly larger (Final Fantasies 7-9, Legend of Dragoon, Wild Arms, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 3, to name a few), not to mention the huge library of games that just couldn't be accomplished on any system before it (Armored Core, Thief, Tenshu, Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Brave Fencer Musashi to name a few). There just hasn't been a transition as influential on gaming as moving from 2D to 3D, alongside the much higher capacity media of CDs.

[@jackgarcia5926]

@@kevingriffith6011 Well, IMO, i mostly mean that because the bases of JRPG's legitimately reached their apex in the SNES, it honestly hasn't seen any major overhauls since those days, the PSX era of JRPG's was in many ways, just a continuation of that. A good chunk of the biggest games at the time were just new entries on franchises that solidified themselves in Snes, like Breath of Fire, FF, Chrono trigger, Tales of,Dragon Quest etc. It of course also saw a good amount of new blood which were amazing mind you (Suikoden, Valkyrie profile etc) In addition to that, all of those games also suffered because of the hardware, game play didn't actually change, but now you had to deal with Loading screens, which were absolute hell when the game also happened to have random encounters. As a result, SNES rpg's aged very well, while games like FF VII border on the unbearable. Mind you, i am not denying the PSX era was amazing for the genre (Vagrant Story, FF Tactics, Legend of Mana, Valkyrie profile and so on) but the big splash was on the SNES IMO, and if we are talking about sheer numbers, PS2 had just as much, if not more games of the genre, the hardware was better suited for them, and companies like Atlus and NIS began to make a real entrance on the western market, which gave more variety, as opposed to PSX era which was mostly just Square soft, that while an amazing company back then, was in the middle of it's mad quest of trying to recreate the success that was FF VII and that negatively affected a lot of games under it's banner at the time (Xenogears in particular comes to mind, as well as FF VIII). Anyhow, those are just my (dreadfully long winded) thoughts.

[@KuraIthys]

I actually found a surprising number of 3d game incarnations were by some definitions less complex and smaller games than their 2d predecessors. This certainly doesn't apply to stuff like the JRPG, but it does apply to other genres... Like the 3d platformer. It was a major technological shift. It's not that it allowed more complex games in general, but rather that 3d environments required a different mindset and approach that lent itself to different ideas than 2d... And of course, it was a period of experimentation precisely BECAUSE 3d was new and unfamiliar and a lot of the established ideas simply didn't work right if you took them straight from 2d to 3d...

[@doburu4835]

Snes bruh

[@roentgen519]

I absolutely love Thief TDP and the first time I played it was a few years ago, so no nostalgia involved. The stealth is fun but the atmosphere and setting are even greater.

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

Would I like about stealth - type games, it's that give you a mental challenge and practically make you to "take things slow". Like you need to use every gear within your brain to find the best path to don't make any mistake, keep at seat's edge, being more aware of the surroundings and sounds.

[@chickensangwich97]

Extra Credits had a great video about this years ago. They argue (I think persuasively) that stealth is actually a closer relative to puzzle games than, say, a shooter. The fantasy of most action games is being the strongest person in the room, but the fantasy of a stealth game is being the cleverest person in the room.

[@theparodymonster1]

Have you played shadow tactics: blades of the shogun? Its really great

[@MitchellD249]

It really is fascinating that so much of the core gameplay has just stayed as is for 20 years on a basis of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Did gameplay developers really just nail it that early and figure out optimal stealth gameplay, or is there an alternative universe where something else took off instead and a radically different stealth genre exists?

[@h4724-q6j]

I think that it's a bit of both. Those features tend to just make for good stealth, but a genre is often defined by its earliest iterations.

[@VoilaTadaOfficial]

Some games DO toy with these mechanics. Even just from MGS to MGS2, they added a state of detection between Caution and Alert where you've been spotted, but only by one guard and he can alert more guards with a radio, and another state where if the radio call is interrupted, an investigation squad is sent to the guard's last known location.

[@TyphonNeuron]

"if it ain't broke don't fix it" is actually a critique used against other game series that changed for the worst over the years, however for stealth games it remained like it is simply because no one is making stealth games anymore and thus no one is trying to nuance, develop, transform, revolutionize any aspects of this type of gameplay. Sure, there are a lot of games that incorporate some stealth in them but it stays the same, those games aren't actual stealth games they're just hybrids, to allow various playstyles not to progress or perfect the stealth gameplay nor the other playstyles, like combat or whatever else the game allows, and they end up being shallow not deep, as the stealth in Splinter Cell 1/2/3 or Thief 1/2/3 can't really be compared to, for example stealth in DXHR/MD or Dishonored or SC Conviction or Blacklist.

[@VoilaTadaOfficial]

@@TyphonNeuron I don't think that's necessarily the case. There are plenty of indie titles that have been toying with stealth over the past 10 years. One that has a decent amount of footage in this video is Invisible Inc. which is a turn based rogue like that is entirely a stealth game. You can't play that game and not consider it a stealth game, but at the same time, it's turn based so you have unlimited time to think about your next action (unless you turn on turn timers, but they are off by default so I think they're in there for the advanced players that want a challenge). This is VERY different from many stealth games in the past where the whole game revolves around thinking on your feet to avoid mistakes and fix problems made from mistakes you didn't avoid.

[@zebedeesummers4413]

@@VoilaTadaOfficial I think Aragami would be a good example of a stealth game. It was released in 2016 and is one of my favorite games. While it didn't add many new stealth mechanics it does add it's own mechanics that have stealth feel and force you to play different.

[@lolphie8493]

Mark, I just want to say that I'm really grateful that I've found one of my favorite games when I was a child. I remember playing Tenchu 3 in a rental store near my house when I was a kid, I couldn't understand what the story is but I'm really happy back then when I discovered how to use the grapple hook. Sadly I've never really finished even first mission because the store closed down soon after and soon forget about it. I remembered it again while playing Mgs:pw and search for it but no I had no luck until today. I know this became kinda lengthy but I just want to thank you and keep up the good work.

[@june_flower]

I can't recommend Thief and Thief II enough. I played them recently and Thief II is probably my favorite stealth game now.

[@timpind.8237]

I’m so happy that video games are being recognized as the art that they are. The fact that a job like yours can exist even at all makes me so excited for the future of gaming, and I’m glad that channels like these, that give video games the professional and in-depth look that so many other forms of entertainment get, are able to exist and brighten our days like this. Keep up the good work, GMTK! We’re loving your content!

[@Saladinos]

So basically, Metal Gear was the progenitor of all... And nowadays the stealth genre is considered as a kinda generic concept since many action games tend to have stealth sections. An amazing video for some of the best stealth games in existence! Superb!!!

[@anldemir9755]

First Hitman game needs more praise for its stealth. Even though it came 2 years after Thief or Tenchu, it had a different kind of stealth feel to it by changing player intimacy level with NPCs dramatically through a level.

[@bio0link]

Thief's sound system is still unmatched in every single stealth game. One of the best things thief perfected no other game has even tried to get right.

[@Hoarseplay]

Excellent video! 1998 is the best year of video games and this is just one of the reasons why. I would, however, like to correct a minor mistake you made: FromSoft would not acquire the IP for Tenchu until 2004. Every Tenchu game had different publishers, both in and out of Japan. The first Tenchu game (of which there are 4 versions of) was first published by SMEJ in Japan, and later Activision for western releases.

[@CinematographyDatabase]

🍻 thanks for the history lesson and mechanics study

[@s0uls4nd]

A

[@MetalB1985]

My favorite game of all time is Thief 2. It also comes from my childhood experience, where i would sneak around in places, where i didn't belong. Thief captured this fillings, i had in my small adventures. Sadly the Dishonored series just doesn't hit the heights of Thief. First they are too focused on making you into a killer, they just aren't dark enough, have the amazing mission design and just don't include sound as a major game mechanic. Really hope that someday, somebody would follow up on Thief.

[@Zimpfnis]

I could listen to you talk about thief and stealth games for another few hours.

[@skull8093]

That 98 in the thumbnail with the patterned dithering made me unreasonably nostalgic. Not because of the year, but because of the patterned pixel gradient.

[@Ammoniumbicarbonat]

Haha I've been studying pixel dithering in college it's really cool

[@skull8093]

@@Ammoniumbicarbonat i'm so sorry for you

[@dr.snowman4883]

is it that hard to make pixels?

[@JanusVesta]

Just a minor error in the video. The lights on Sam Fisher's back only became an indication of visibility in Double Agent and later games, when they switched to a binary visibility system. In the first three games the lights exist to let the player keep track of Sam's position in complete darkness, something the later games removed (the darkness, not the lights). The first three Splinter Cell games use a light metre which functions similarly to Thief's gem, with Chaos Theory adding a sound metre which showed ambient noise as well as how much noise you were making.

[@K3zster]

Great video, very insightful. MG2: Solid Snake is an incredible game and holds up well even today, way ahead of its time. I am a big fan of stealth as a genre, and I think MGS kicked all that off for me. I know pedantry can be frowned upon but personally I prefer to be told about stuff like this, so I'm going to go ahead. It sounds like you say "tenants" instead of "tenets", not sure if it is simply me mishearing the pronunciation or a mixing of words.

[@douglasbaiense]

The first stealth game I ever played was Bonanza Brothers for Sega Genesis, more than 20 years ago. I still remember how mesmerized I was when I saw Metal Gear Solid on PS1 for the first time. It was the most inovative game I haver ever seen. Some time later I also played Syphon Filter for PS1, in it I used that shoot the lights strategy quite often. Good times

[@MrTaikobo]

I’m so happy someone mentioned Tenchu Stealth Assassins, it was a great game that utilized stealth in such a thought provoking way and even the later games continue to use stealth as it’s primary objective. What I didn’t know was that Sekiro was originally going to be a Tenchu game. I wanted to get it beforehand but I sorta thought it’d be another spin on the soulsborne series, but since it’s like Tenchu, that’s a horse of a different color. I’m definitely getting it. In terms of stealth games in general, I always heard about how MGS pioneered the genre into what it is today and, while I knew of Thief and have played the console game from...2014, I think, I never played the original. It would be nice to do a Tenchu marathon, see how the franchise evolved.

[@_Braised]

Like so many others, you're forgetting the *other* most cited influence on the making of Thief: Goldeneye 007, from 1997. So many of your stealth features mentioned here were already in Goldeneye a year earlier, with neutral state guards that can be alerted through sight or sound, open ended non-linear levels with multiple paths, non-combatants you will be punished for killing, varied objectives based on what difficulty you're aiming for, being underarmed compared to your enemies - emphasising stealth and an avoidance of combat, etc etc.

[@captainnomekop5056]

I was checking for a new episode all day for some reason, I’m glad I was

[@grimalexx]

Finally someone talking about Thief. I love it, but it sadly almost not talked about anymore, even when people talk about stealth games, they (for some unknown reason??) forget to mention such an iconic game as thief. I would love if there was a new game that used similar light/dark and sound (different materials different noise) mechanics. I know that usually enemies don't see you that well in the dark, but it's very subtle and the noise is only louder when you run. Just my thoughts xd Anyway, great work, keep making videos :)

[@fl0wey57]

And can't stress enough how good this channel is. Almost every moment I watch it's an interesting nod for me to see and think. From the pictures transitions between the years 1990 and 1998, showing such gems as Super Metroid. -(which I detailed more on one of the top comments here)- The simple premise of questions you bring every video, making it the usually the most minimalist thumbnail to click on, but that brings so, so, so much more. Your editing, which has seen a lot of improvement over time. Your awesome scripts, from piecing together scarred knowledge from each story behind the developer, it's origins before the project, the development struggle, and the careers it builds to new and old alike. All to tell a bigger picture(or maybe small depending on how you look) of the IMMENSE game industry and it's life. You're one of few the really shows your heart and soul on your work, always delivering such good videos. *I really hope* you reach the million mark one day, you deserve it :)

[@AshleyTheSwift]

It's ya boi Mark Brown! Missed you dude. 1998 was an insane year for games. Nice of you to cover it in-depth like this and not just a broad look though.

[@PencilCase6B]

I remember playing Thief 2 and 3 with headphones, in complete dark. I was a child and some moments were really creepy... Also this trilogy had a really good story. it developed so well through the series, and the conclusion was really good.

[@juancarlosquinterotobia88]

Okay guys, million dollar idea. Mark Brown+Ahoy=?????

[@ACE-ej4fu]

they would make a grea team. also i think ahoy's real name is stuart brown

[@ominousonion7197]

@@ACE-ej4fu the brown bros

[@tyler-xo3rb]

but, Ahoy actually says things of substance. what would mark do?

[@juancarlosquinterotobia88]

@@tyler-xo3rb well that's interesting. Why do you think Mark doesn't say anything of substance?

[@tyler-xo3rb]

@@juancarlosquinterotobia88 juan carlos quintero tobia this video is a perfect example of what mark does. if I asked you what mark really said in this video, what would you say? he described surface level mechanics of a bunch of stealth games, without answering the question that he asked. Which is, you know, the goal of the video. he does this all the time. Another example being the cuphead video. For 10 minutes he tells you things like "the evemy here shoots at you, forcing you to move out of the way." As if it's some sort of genius dissection of the game. but because he's soft spoken and his editing is good, people think he's a game design genius. He plays a game, and tells you what he and any other person with a brain would see while playing, but because he's so inoffensive and timid, it goes in one ear and out the other. that's not to say he's never made a good video, but for $10,000 a month, he makes far too many videos that have pretty visuals, and vapid content.

[@variousthings6470]

GoldenEye from 1997 was also an example of prominent stealth gameplay in an extremely successful game. OK, so staying hidden in GoldenEye is not *essential* to competing any level, even on the highest difficulty. But remaining unseen is nearly always advantageous: avoiding long bursts of unsurpressed gunfire helps manage the number of enemies that converge toward the sound of your gunshots, and shooting out CCTV cameras before they can spot Bond prevents them from trigger infinite enemy spawning. But it was not until Perfect Dark that Rare made avoiding detection an absolutely strict part of mission success/failure cristeria (e.g. the Chicago, Area 5, and Air Base levels).

[@eugene7914]

I love all gmtk stuff, and this video is very indicative of how Mark's style is evolving. A very well-structured essay on a lesser-discussed topic. Can't wait to see what 2019 brings for your channel, Mark!

[@andre.drezus]

Thanks a ton, Mark. In our college's final assignment, me and my friends decided to subvert the stealth genre trope by making it not about physical or militar danger but psychological and cultural danger. For that purpose, I had to first write a essay about the stealth genre history, and it's pretty much summed up in your 12 minute video. In the end, we developed a game that had a very successful grade and we're hoping we get the time and resources someday to finish it properly and maybe star in one of your future videos! ❤️

[@ShinoSarna]

11:25 Fun fact: Wolfenstein 3D was originally going to be a 3D stealth game (because it was inspired by the Castle Wolfenstein games you mentioned in the vid), but the idea was scrapped because there were issues with pacing. There are still remainders of that idea - you can still sneak up on enemies with their backs turned, your melee weapon is a knife, and the game has guard patrol paths implemented.

[@ihabnovalic9821]

Cant wait for Hollow Knight boss keys

[@maaaybegreat]

I'd prefer Axiom Verge boss keys.

[@glungusgongus]

@@maaaybegreat how about both

[@Evoleo]

And an Ori one

[@jvcmarc]

and a The Messenger one as well

[@uwirl4338]

​@@maaaybegreat As a massive fan of both games, while it would be neat to have an episode of both, I'd go with Hollow Knight if I had to choose one. The bosses in that game are ridiculously well designed.

[@skalhen3704]

Commandos behind enemy lines: 1998!!

[@tom.biermann]

Happy 2019 everyone here! I really think this is one of the nicest communities!

[@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692]

All 3 original Thief games are amazing. Thief(3) Deadly shadows is totally underrated, but Thief 1&2 is just amazing. I played them for the first time ever last year and they are some of my favourite games of all time now. I totally missed out as a kid but I would probably be too scared anyway:)

[@Disthron]

Hmm... I'm not sure about the technology point brought up at 7:28. I mean Alone in the Dark came out back in 1992 and was first released on Diskett. 10:14 The Kojima quote is much more compelling. Though it's talking about better rendering technology (polygons) not so much about storage space. I mean, I'm sure storage space was a factor, but I think it's telling that most of the features discussed are present in the MSX game, which probably came on diskette as well. Anyway, another good video.

[@Death13Horseman]

As long as I can remember, I just loved playing stealth games. Metal Gear sort of influenced me that way, maybe its because it is my favourite video game franchise of all time. There is just a unique thrill and fun only stealth games could provide. Hiding in the shadows, making every step count, distracting the enemy, taking them down before they even realise what's going on, using the environment as your playground to traverse the level unseen. I really long for hardcore stealth games such Thief or perhaps a new Splinter Cell, or a revival of the Tenchu series, hell a real Ninja game (no Ninja Gaiden beat them ups). As always brilliant video on my favourite genre of games.

[@thegameoveranalyser4835]

Interesting Video. I believe it was in Nels Andersons talk on systemic design where he stated that stealth games are inherently systemic, because as you don''t necessarily interact with enemies directly, you end up using the environment and other tools instead. Additionally, they also tend to be immersive because the world exists independent of you, creating an incredible sense of place. There seems to be an interesting continuity between stealth games, immersive sims and emergent games that suggest a deeper link between their gameplay, and why stealth games, at least to me , seem deeply immersive. The Gdc talk by Arkane Studios Steve Lee called ''Holistic Design'' is an excellent extension of this. He talks about how the gameplay that defines immersive sims is ''intentionality'', which is the ability to plan and anticipate your moves , and then act accordingly. This requires a consistent set of rules in a world, and the ability to predict ai patterns and the like. This is what designers of systemic games and stealth games also claim is of vital importance, and because the degree of simulation required to realize this is usually pretty robust, these worlds tend to feel immersive too, in the sense of feeling like a real , internally consistent universe. Its fascinating how Games like Zelda breath of the wild incorporated systemic elements into its design, how games like far cry and uncharted have stealth options in their gameplay, and how immersive sims seem to have stealth built into their dna. Having a long time to plan is also one of the cornerstones of sid maeirs interesting decisions talk, where he talks about the difference between long term and short term decisions in turn based and real time strategy games. I think there are a lot of interesting lessons to be taken from across all these genres, and would love to see more cross pollination . To me, Stealth games are just the purest expression of systemic design set in a managed sandbox. I could just spend hours in thief, metal gear solid and even games like hitman trying all kinds of inventive ways to test out the system, but this is also why I love systemic games and immersive sims as well. They really do afford creativity , but generally keep it rooted in their fiction. I feel the fact that stealth systems are finding their way into more and more games is a victory for the genre of a sorts, even though i'd love to see more pure stealth based titles. I do wonder what the future of the genre is though, and what design innovations outside the ones mentioned in this video they will bring.

[@Sephiel263]

1998 was the absolute best year in gaming. So many landmark titles in almost every genre, MGS, Thief, Deus Ex, Fallout 2, Half Life, Starcraft, Ocarina of Time, Crash 3 Warped, Spyro the Dragon, Soul Calibur, Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, SaGa Frontier, Suikoden II, Parasite Eve, F-Zero X and the release of the last great console with the Dreamcast.

[@gruetwo3424]

Wasn't Deus Ex released in the year 2000?

[@AbbreviatedReviews]

Hm... I was writing a story on 1998 in gaming and this video is like half of it. I'm still gonna do it though because 1998 was a year for many major contributions to gaming for the next two decades. There are a lot of years defined by a handful of influential games, but it's surprising just how many were in that year and had such a far-reaching effect.

[@Horzinicla]

Finally! You made a video about stealth games. This is by far the best game analysis channel. Great job Mark

[@MrEst97]

I really love your videos for a reason I've only just realised. I learn so much from them but I'll probably never in my life make a video game. What you've taught me instead is that by analysing lots of something I can begin to understand what makes those things effective and why. So for my upcoming biology reports in uni this year I'll prepare by reading and taking apart scientific papers the way that you take apart video games. I thank you a lot for making my uni life easier, or my music career easier, or even things like cooking food.

[@GoldenJLR]

Bonanza Bros. (1990 - arcade, mega drive/genesis and master system) also has Stealth elements not as the main focus but it's there

[@ThePainkiller9995]

splinter cell chaos theory is my shit. i'm playing again after so many years and it aged sooo well

[@ptkstefano]

One thing that i've always wanted to see in stealth games is a more hardcore approach were being spotted at least once puts the game into a perpetual attention state that won't just go away. Like how in MGS, when they find you in the interior of a top security facility but after a few minutes of hiding everyone goes back to their routine instead of actually locking the place down and look for you in every nook and cranny. Hitman is the main game where this would be great, the levels are short but they don't react enough to your actions. The world doesn't react to you killing one of your targets and a whole team of guards, once you get out of their sight and change your clothes the level will just continue normally. They should call for reinforcements and the police, the civilians on the map should change their routines and the whole area should be put on total lockdown with lots of new enemies patrolling and actually seeking you down. That would make an silent assassination that looks like an accident much more crucial.

[@SeanNoonan]

I'd never heard of 005 before - always nice to hear about a game that passed me by.

[@matiasblasi_music]

You've readed my mind, i'm currently playing MGS3, Thief 1 and Commandos Behind Enemy Lines, a childhood game i want to get through without saving between missions, same with Thief that i've never played before. I was thinking about 98 a few days ago, it was the year Thief, MGS and Commandos came out, the defining games for the stealth genre. And i think stealth games complement with your video about Playing Past Your Mistakes, it's something that i imposed to myself, not saving between levels. It makes the game more interesting, inmersive and really makes you nervous (besides making it more challenging). But this thing only works in a PC game like Thief or Commandos where you can save. I really recommend you try Commandos, it's a really interesting game, and a different approach to WW2. Great video like always, and late happy New Year!

[@tenchumatt]

Very nice video, 1998 was a good year for the Playstation and when i fell in love with stealth games. looking forward to the next one. Side note, thank you for pronouncing Tenchu correctly as so many other you-tubers call it Ten-ku when they talk about Sekiro, its become a bit of a pet peeve.

[@Aklipse47]

I love this series so much it is what inspired me to start making games.

[@SheezyBites]

Man, Silent Service... now that's a game I haven't thought about in a long time! I loved that game as a kid! Great video as always Mark... just don't mind me I'm going to go relive my childhood in a submarine.

[@jamie7277]

I would like to see more what not to do. Of course the channel is about good game design with sprinkles of bad design as comparison. Personally I think it would be great to see a series about pitfalls developers keep falling into. The dotted line video touched on this but what about repetitive objectives in assassin's creed, overkill of collectables in Spiderman, no single player content in Mario kart and other things devs could do to mediate repetitiveness, lack of contact, etc... I think often times people look back at a game and think I enjoyed the game but such and such really irritated me why did the devs do that.. could you provide some insight?

[@tostupidforname]

jimthetoolman That sounds cool

[@Disthron]

Weren't there plenty of RPGs that featured in depth stealth mechanics prior to these? I seem to recall being able to sneak in games like Ultima Underworld and Elder Scrolls 1 and 2. In the video, GMTK talks about how most of the modern stealth mechanics were laid down fairly quickly in the early days but maybe that's partially because they had been explored previously as a small part of a larger systems?

[@Croc212]

Submarine simulators deserve more recognition as stealth games. Dangerous Waters has been my jam for the last year. There's nothing like prowling around, surrounded by enemy vessels, waiting for an opportunity to rise to radio depth, receive target coordinates for a tomahawk strike, and then slip away after unleashing them all. Or, hunting down a single Russian sub in a sea of noisy shrimp and other creatures. The suspense is brilliant, and it kind of plays like a puzzle game because you need to piece together sonar data to build a target solution for your torpedoes, all the while paranoid that they're onto you. I think the company that made it also made training simulations for the US Navy.

[@ElectricAlan]

while not being a dedicated stealth game, Goldeneye on the N64 was praised for (among other things) being on of the first shooters to have stealth aspects to it.

[@justember794]

I really like this very specific, in-depth look at gaming history! I'd like to see more, keep it up! (But also do what you want; happy KZbinrs are most important, after all.)

[@IronicSonic83]

Great video as always!. I love how clean is your footage of 32 bit games as well!

[@benwasserman8223]

Ahh Metal Gear Solid: the birth place of long cinematic cutscenes, mainstream stealth mechanics and cardboard boxes as go-to disguises

[@uwirl4338]

It was the first modern game ever made. All that Sony does year after year is copy it's formula, and while the resulting games are usually fantastic as well, they tend to be too similar. Yet somehow MGS still shines for it's uniqueness.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

HiperMercurio01 LMAO Yeah not even fucking close sweet-cheeks. Nice job on getting it twisted.

[@Quark281]

The new editing is looking really nice and slick!

[@Gaff.]

Metal Gear 2 is one of my favourite games. Everyone should play it, just to observe the sheer accomplishment of making a game like that when they made it and using that primitive technology. Genius implementation of everything.

[@DavMCycle]

I love Tenchu, Metal gear, Hitman, Dishonored, the Arkham series, those games had been influential among others, and helped with the evolution of stealth games, from time to time I go back to play some of those amazing games.

[@MegapiemanPHD]

I remember hearing somewhere that Wolf 3D was going to have some stealth elements from the previous Wolfenstine games but they removed it for the sake of simplicity. Would have been interesting to see how it would have worked in 3D.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

It would probably be like the two Bethesda Wolf games, where you would have to pin down the commander in a maze like environment and if you got spotted in the way, you would have to fight more enemies. Though it probably wouldn't work that well in 3D because the pre-WASD era of FPS control isn't very good for precise movement, and you can't aim up and do headshot in 3D.

[@KuraIthys]

It's funny that even Ocarina of Time had a stealth section. Not a very elaborate one, but it was there... So did Wind waker... Though after that point it kind of faded out of the series again. (except BOTW which uses stealth-like mechanics dynamically, not as something you HAVE to do, but as one of many options to give you an edge in fights.) I also still remember Hideo Kojima's GDC keynote where he talks about the very first Metal Gear game, and how that concept derived entirely from hardware limitations. Ironically, one of the most iconic game series in the genre owes it's existence not to advanced technology, but the harsh restrictions of older systems. Specifically, Metal Gear was Kojima's creative answer to this request: Make a 2d arcade action shooter on a computer platform which cannot even draw 4 simultaneous sprites. (As he himself put it, the genre he was asked to make has a bare minimum requirement of the player sprite, one enemy, and at least one bullet sprite for each of those.) Since he couldn't make such a game within the hardware constraints, he made 'an action shooter where you can't shoot'. Yeah... Hardware limitations can lead to some weird ideas. XD

[@Darkhandrob]

In Zelda Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks most of the time you needed to sneak through the main dungeon

[@DieWeltIstSchlecht]

And here I thought I get some nice nostalgia of Thief.

[@권용대-b5v]

Metal Gear Solid was a shock to me at the time and even though that’s the only Hideo Kojima game I’ve played, I believe in his success with Death Stranding.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

권용대 you should really play the rest of the franchise. Their all great.

[@권용대-b5v]

LudicrousKid I’d love to!! But I don’t have proper consoles to play them :(

[@stuin01]

I am just going to say that I love your choice of music for this. Invisible Inc music really fit the discussion well.

[@parkerargyle4112]

I love how you edited the invisible inc. title to come in at the exact moment that the hud did. Goodness you edit so well

[@igodreamer7096]

Great video, man! Metal Gear Solid was a masterpiece!

[@tageakerstrom4167]

your editing is moving towards Ahoys and i love it

[@Metroid4ever]

I love stealth missions in games. I love sniping baddies. It forces you to slow down and pay attention to every little detail. Even in non-stealth games, I love being able to snipe enemies. It's my preferred way of fighting, bring down the number of enemies before I go in and confront face-to-face.

[@VanOri]

I was waiting for the name Thief to drop, not disappointed at all!

[@viridisspielt]

Awesome video as usual, I really like the new editing style! Some critique though: When you talk about in-game audio (like the floor tiles etc) I want to hear that audio in the video as well to really get an impression of how it sounds :)

[@matthewherr1588]

Tenchu is underrated. One of my all time favorites

[@ydyufyffyfyfyfyfyfyf]

I love this historical stuff, especially when you talked about why these games might've came out when they did and earlier games with similar ideas.

[@EricTalwin]

A well made stealth game, that challenges me and respects my intelligence is generally my favorite kind of game. Thanks for the breakdown. I would love to see you go in depth into the elements of what makes a good stealth game peace by peace like you do for some other game types. Like you do for metroidvainias for example.

[@GarretsShadow]

The sound design in Thief is still top tier even today (especially that sound propagation system mentioned in the video). It precisely and reliable

[@DIYTAO]

Those AppleII era Wolfenstein games were quite amazing.. Dynamic maps, stealth, disguises, enemy alert and chase, locks, aquiring weapons on site. And permadeath.

[@Jagerbomber]

That barrel level was always my favorite Sly level, even though it's so short. It cracked me up so much back then.

[@fenderman21guitar]

Your videos are so polished mate, excellent work

[@OnyDeus]

As the resident gamer, I was just telling my family how '98 was such a good year. I keep learning about great things that came from that year too. For instance I was surprised today learning the Blade movie came out in '98.

[@rashkavar]

Another game with stealth elements from the early list that you might not have thought of: Link to the Past. It's fairly subtle, but many of the enemies would detect at different ranges based on different things you did. Clinking your sword against an object or using a sword beam was loud, everything in the room would hear you and if it had an attack AI like the guards, it would start attacking. Guards also had a forward visual cone that turned when they looked left and right - it's at or close to 180 degrees (hey games with guard peripheral vision!), but there are definitely points where speedrunners take a longer path to avoid aggroing the guard (dealing with the guard and walking less steps takes longer than walking more steps and sneaking around the guard).

[@miseryguts8254]

I adore the first two Looking Glass Studios Thief games, real classics that still hold up imho & I would still highly recommend to anyone that has never tried/enjoys stealth gameplay .. the next two, original Xbox's Deadly Shadows & Eidos's 2014 release just don't cut it for me. Not really anything else similar out there (that I've seen) which appeals to me, but we can all dream I guess.

[@IconGamesBR]

MSX was actually quite popular on South America and Europe - with active communities up to this day. Also, Metal Gear 1 on MSX2 has all the elements of stealth games too (radar, countdown timer and all) And watching this video I couldn't stop thinking about the awesome game 'Commandos' - ALSO from 1998! :)

[@golden_ranger_solaris]

My favorite of all time is dishonored one, balanced powers, good progression and actual punishment for your play style not to mention, it's nice to look at on the remaster

[@subprogram32]

I really liked the eye transitions for this video! And I was waiting for Mark of the Ninja to come up lol, I wonder if more was originally said about that one that got cut for time?

[@beepboprobotsnot3748]

Probably not. The video wasn't about modern stealth games, but rather 1998 ones.

[@RonanLeroyLK]

The dev commentary mode on MotN is very interesting, if you haven’t played it yet give it a try.