Technology Won’t Stop the Climate Apocalypse with Dr. Dana Fisher - 259

This episode is sponsored by Surfshark. Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code ADAMCONOVER for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deal...
The climate crisis is unfolding very day, with many inevitable consequences looming in the near future. While we may hope for clean energy or fossil fuel alternatives to save the day, climate change is more than just a technological issue-it's fundamentally a social problem. When tend to view climate change only from an ecological or technological perspective, but we require a sociological view to understand how we can collectively solve it. This week, Adam discusses these complexities with Dr. Dana Fisher, Director of the Center for Environment, Community, & Equity and author of "Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action." They explore the role of hope in the climate crisis, strategies for collective action, and the possibility that things may worsen before they improve. Find Dana's book at factuallypod.com/books
SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: / adamconover
SEE ADAM ON TOUR: www.adamconove...
SUBSCRIBE to and RATE Factually! on:
» Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple...
» Spotify: open.spotify.c...
About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at www.headgum.com.
» SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: www.youtube.co...
» FOLLOW us on Twitter: / headgum
» FOLLOW us on Instagram: / headgum
» FOLLOW us on TikTok: / headgum
» Advertise on Factually! via Gumball.fm

[@TheAdamConover]

Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code ADAMCONOVER for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deals/adamconover

[@DavidJohnson-pu2jh]

Adam you should do a video talking about the details of project 2025 And the rise of corporate Fascism here in America before it's too late more people need to be aware of this I mean actually pay attention to it and take the time to fully do the research on it to understand it. Because there are quite a number of people who are so busy with work and just their basic lives they're completely unaware of project 2025 and what it's about and how bad it is if the monopoly overlords succeed in helping trump become president again because they will use him like a tool to activate the plan project 2025.

[@elysse3653]

can Surfshark help with smart cars? just got a new EV but I can tell it’s reporting a ton of info using its internet connection. same with public charging stations like Electrify America. please help us protect our data!

[@danielbassett1076]

We have established an economic system designed to cause our own extinction. "The rich reserve the right to die last." -Jared Diamond

[@MindEyeMediaVR]

It boggles my mind how much businesses insist on improving "efficiency" by laying off workers, yet they also refuse to improve efficiency when it comes time to move away from fossil fuels. 😐

[@sambuechel9632]

Money efficiency Is all business cares about

[@tobywindgassen8427]

It's called corruption

[@fredphlogiston4620]

you have to rise the price of res sources through taxes, then businesses will try to be more efficient or to produce less and rise the price. Fifty years ago you bought stuff to keep it for a lifetime. Today you buy and throw away, and buy and throw away. Just keep it cheap.

[@kepipek6598]

Anything a corporation does "good" or "bad" is for profits first and social benefits second.

[@noob0nator]

pretty hard to stop doing meth and heroine once you start

[@lodragan]

In the 1990s my dad built his retirement home in a little town on the Pamlico Sound near the outer banks North Carolina - with his bare hands (and my younger brother who still lived at home at the time). Knowing it was a hurricane area, he built it above the required strength standards, and the yard being 4 feet above sea level he built it 4 feet above ground level (8 feet). I visited after he finished it, and told him I thought it was a bad idea to build there due to the effects of global warming, that were already starting to be felt in coastal communities all over the world. He explained how he build the place to withstand historical events and that was that. Over the next 10 years, several hurricanes inundated his property, with water nearly entering the house above the level of the porch that wrapped around 3 sides of the house at the 4 foot level above the ground - unheard of flooding in that area throughout the little town's history. After that he decided to move and managed to sell the property to a doctor who planned to use it as a vacation home. He lived out the rest of his days in a nice little house in the Shenandoah Valley well above sea level and in an area NOT prone to flooding. I think he was lucky since he wasn't rich (was a printer who worked for the Government Printing Office), and his house wasn't seriously damaged during all the events, a testament to his building plan that didn't quite take into account a long view of the future.

[@lady_draguliana784]

11:11 I'm in AZ, EVERY year, now, we're breaking records: earliest day of the year to go over 100F(37.8C), Earliest day over 110F(43.3C), earliest day over 120F(48.9C), Most consecutive days above each of those, most days total above each of those. Local all-time Highs all over the place. Droughts galore, of course, but also record storms and flooding; but above all it's the heat, which has always been oppressive, but it's getting WORSE. And like an ouroboros, we need APS's fossil fuels to power our A/C's to survive (b/c without A/C, thousands would die, as we saw when APS was briefly allowed to black out parts of the city during peak temps (and therefore demand) about a decade back... it's illegal now... bunch of folk died...) "This city should not exist. It's a monument to man's arrogance." - Peggy Hill (King of The Hill), when speaking of Phoenix, Arizona

[@MaryamMaqdisi]

I have one friend from Phoenix and he always says the city shouldn't exist, so sorry you guys gotta put up with that

[@bobc3454]

You live in a desert. Move.

[@chetsavage2536]

Same with Vegas. Desert cities are a massive drain on scarce resources.

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

I'm Canadian. And man. There is more push back in community over the climate tax than there is effort to actually get less damaging energy, or giving land back to any indigenious peoples. But. Fuck. I can't do shit. I can barely handle the most mediocre shit of my own life, lol

[@palmereldritch_6669]

Pheonix is breathtaking study in human ingenuity (AC) and profound stupidity. It's oppressively hot, getting hotter, and the city is literally HALF blacktop (brilliant design engineers). A Sprawl hellscape, where sooner or later it will get hot enough to melt tires. And, oh yeah, golf courses EVERYWHERE that are outrageously unsustainable.

[@lady_draguliana784]

“When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.” - Jean Jacques Rousseau

[@RockitFX1]

I bet the rich will be well marbled

[@SlickSimulacrum]

@@RockitFX1 , Nah, we'll compost the rich. I don't eat fat ridden lard a**es.

[@davidraley3054]

Yum.

[@SunJake]

🎉

[@lady_draguliana784]

@@RockitFX1 their lifestyles are pretty close to how wagyu beef is raise so... 🤔🤤

[@jamesoverholt878]

The planet WILL fix itself. We just won't enjoy the planet's solution cuz it means getting rid of us.

[@joarcokru]

Over millennia it has always been cheaper to adapt the the planet Thant the other way around.

[@fluffycolt5608]

43:45 I love an advert for snacks shipped from Japan in the middle of a "how to fight climate change" discussion.

[@ericbruun9020]

Where is the talk about reducing sprawl that will reduce the need to drive? This guest also is talking about swapping technologies instead of better planning. As a transit planner, I feel there is a crackdown on transit where it is being blamed for GHG. Somehow it is OK to switch from overpowered, overweight gasoline luxury cars to overpowered, overweight full electric luxury cars but hybrid transit buses are not good enough. This is so stupid because if a bus burns three times the fuel but carries 15 people instead of 1 it is still 5 times better. And it support "missing middle" housing and traffic safety too.

[@dakotacarpenter7702]

we can't do that because it's the shadow government trying to manipulate people by making cities better organized... or whatever. seriously, 1 of the dumbest conspiracy theories out there. "we can't make cities more efficient because it's what the bad guys want."

[@Rabaheo]

I'm sorry, but the Pandemic also had a hand in derailing Gathering and Protesting in person quite a lot. Portions of the law are using RICO charges on protesters. How do we combat a system that is continually moving to criminalize protest? how do we combat a system that is willing to call public dissent organized crime? I feel like individual accountability is nice, But corporate accountability must be mandated by law.

[@AmandaHayes]

Yes exactly. Almost no businesses have ever done right by a community of their own volition, it has to be mandated by govt, so it's wild to push a platform that doesn't compel companies to give back and enrich the community they're a part of. As if ceos and shareholders are just going to decide to contribute out of the kindness of their hearts someday

[@kaiserwilhelmii1827]

Riots. They can't fight all of us.

[@dolliscrawford280]

@AmandaHayes We used to have taxes for that. City, County, State, and school property tax. Big business made deals leaving small businesses to foot the bill for both and, in some cases, the big business left town and the eyesore of their business behind.

[@MattBuild4]

Imo the climate protests in particular really arent effective at all and in many cases its difficult to determine what exactly they are wanting....

[@dolliscrawford280]

@MattBuild4 We want to slow and stop climate change. We saw during the pandemic that we can reverse it. It will take science and big government to do so and a willingness to be a little less comfortable and more cooperative.

[@falsificationism]

Holy crap, I was one of those assholes in the comments! Good on Adam for a) actually taking the critiques head on, and b) having an actual social scientist on to discuss. What Fisher covers in this one gets to the heart of it. (I'm a fellow scholar but come from social psychology, not sociology, so I'm familiar with what she covered but by no means an expert.)

[@Mike80528]

I may have been as well. I am so tired of the worship of technology as the savior of us all. They ignore science that warns of the worst possible outcomes, but are more than happy to cling on to hyperbolic scientific claims of solutions. The problem is there is no solution to this predicament. Period. Every solution ignores other aspects of The Predicament.

[@erayskirata6716]

I don't like saying "society" caused the climate crisis. It was billionaires and giant corporations that did it, not the average person.

[@summerspring5930]

Yeah. And people were defending Taylor Swift and other celebrities.

[@supernova622]

The average lifestyle in most of the developed world is such that of the entire global population consumed similarly, life on earth would be untenable. We drive the cars, we run AC, we eat meat with every meal. We create the demand.

[@mitkoogrozev]

@@supernova622 Right. But also people are not born with these demands. They were created by the corpos and governments under which they happen to live in, and get indoctrinated into a lifestyle, creating those wants or demands within them, and have no other immediate option, or knowledge about anything else, and are sucked in into the rat race enough that they have no time and thus interest to learn anything new and just focus on having a good time and have some food before having to repeat the process and go to the 'soul'- sucking job again. Plus the indoctrination makes them have in-built resistance towards learning certain new info, and feel threatened if they get exposed to it and avoid it, even if they had a little time. So it's kind of both, not just one or the other. They are tied in a feedback loop. So it's the structure of the socio-economic system as a whole, not any one of it's elements.

[@zacherylitchfield687]

Sorry for the long commitment, but I strongly disagree with this cause I think it's a cop out, and an excuse people use to do nothing about it. (An excuse that I also use to not do more around this issue so no judgement) But, I think we have all been a part of destroying the world. Sure corporate America and Billionaires have the biggest foot print and are manipulative. But we have all been real complacent in accepting the convenience of the industrial world and choosing ignorance. Like We have a choice to buy 100% cotton jeans but the stretchy ones are more comfortable. Paper towels, Ziploc bags, paper napkins, disposable plates, are convenient things that we not only are willing to hurt the planet over but our own wallets. There are millions of new iPhones that roll out every year, and are bought! No one needs those But we want them anyway. Corporate America was responsible for growing the motor industry and pushing public transportation out but we were really accepting of this overall because cars are sometimes more convenient than buses. We could have fought that But not enough of us cared. We regret a lot of this complacency now but regular people are part of the problem too. Our votes and lack of involvement in activism are part of what has created the world we live in here in the US whether we want to admit it or not. To use something from another one of Adam's videos: when social programs were shared with black people, not just white people, there was a shift in acceptance of social programs, and they were removed because people started voting differently, that was our fault, not some malicious billionaire or government. The same stuff has been happening around things that harm the planet. We could have voted, spoken out, but not enough people have/are. Because cars are convenient and give autonomy that we value highly in the US, because many of us love meat, because plastic is convenient in so many ways, because the new iPhone is shiny. My wife and I try to reduce most of this stuff, We use very little disposable things, and live conservatively. But there's always something that's so inconvenient that we cave. We can't wipe our hands clean of our involvement in climate change. Every time you have a burger, pork, or chicken you're contributing. Every time you use disposable convenience methods you are contributing. Change Habits, reduce consumerism, reduce meat consumption, get involved and vote. I'm telling myself this as much as anyone who reads this!

[@davidschreiber4677]

Ah ... society is people, we always let billionaires do whatever they want but they are people (sort of).

[@ericapivko]

This year I'm growing seedlings for any neighbors that might need or want them. I know how to, can do it well, and our 2-8+ legged neighbors all need food. Thanks for the reminder that this work has value beyond the $. More build, less destroy.

[@sixvee5147]

“I accepted to come to this meeting to have a sober and mature conversation. I’m not in any way signing up to any discussion that is alarmist. There is no science out there, or no scenario out there, that says that the phase-out of fossil fuel is what’s going to achieve 1.5C.” - Sultan Al Jaber, President of COP 28, also CEO of Abu Dhabi National Oil Company Mukhtar Babayev will be the president for COP 29; he is also a former executive of the State Oil Company of Azerbaijian Republic. Seems more and more likely, scenario SSP5-8.5 of the IPCC assessment may come to fruition (or at least the higher end of the spectrum). I say enjoy what you can, while you still can; pity the generations to come.

[@mitkoogrozev]

I remember the wider context/more things he said. He said that in the context of "continuing business as usual'' basically. That there is no science or plan on how to continue with 'prosperous' (as defined by capitalism terms ), and globally trading society at the scale we are doing it now. And this statement, as such, is correct. We literally have no plan that's feasible as a global society to continue business as usual. The problem is that he uses that to rationalize "lets step on the gas of the oil use instead". Aka make it worse, faster instead of being part of figuring out how to transition to SOME kind of society, and not under the parameters he stated (prosperity from a capitalist POV and increased global trade , increased energy and resource use.) In short he basically said "I have vision X for society. It's not doable, therefore I won't change that vision, but instead do nothing. I accept only solutions that conform with my vision."

[@FelipeKana1]

​​@@mitkoogrozevnot so true. There are feasible plans for the transition. Well written, well thought out. COP made some, IPCC too, plus UN organisms compiled them. You can check the 2030 agenda. What he wants is a plan that keeps him filthy rich. That doesn't exist.

[@mitkoogrozev]

@@FelipeKana1 I would recommend the work of Simon Michaux. He explains the problems with these international organizations plans, which in summary seem to be very resource and energy blind. And that is a critical aspect of something being feasible or not. But yes, you are also right/I would agree, that generally the plans are within system logic. Which means keeping business as usual like I've already mentioned, and that necessarily includes keeping this guy rich :D.

[@Mark-si7tf]

No the government is not going to change. No matter what party is in charge. Greed, power, consumerism, that's all that drives all this world.

[@jakemcduffee3649]

You care, and I care. Most of the people listening to this podcast cares. The problem is we don't have an overwhelming portion of society that cares yet. Once that happens, politicians will have to bend to our power or risk being voted out in primary elections. We have to convince society that this matters first, then the government actions will follow

[@bluester7177]

​​@@jakemcduffee3649it will happen though, because it's starting to affect people, I'm Brazilian, and we have a whole state under water right now and people care and are trying to help, the difficult thing is that climate change is not a in your face devastating catastrophic event all the time, it's small changes over long periods of time and here and there there's some huge catastrophe sprinkled all over the world. Humans suck at the long term things, that's why we keep trying to fix what's broken and not prevent the breaking.

[@angelmujahid2233]

Oddly enough this was the most optimistic conversation on this topic. I really like that she had actual solutions and not just doom and gloom or wishful thinking

[@vladimir0700]

It’s too late to fix the damage we’ve done and we wouldn’t do anything even it weren’t. After all, we’ve known about the problem for decades and instead of dealing with it we’ve continued to make things worse year after year

[@tealkerberus748]

decades? The capacity of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to trap heat was known and discussed before the turn of *last* century.

[@davidpeppers551]

@@tealkerberus748 I was going to say that. Arrhenius was one who mentioned warming from CO2 over 100 years ago.

[@davidpeppers551]

Jevon's paradox. The more we save, the more we use the savings for other energy consuming things. The only reason to discipline our consumption seems to be so we can consume MORE of something else. Until we kick that habit, all roads lead to ruin.

[@reuireuiop0]

​​@@davidpeppers551Yeah, she already says that the whole thing needs to change at 7min10 . However, a lazy majority enjoys the way they living, don't want to change that, lest pay for something _less_ luxurious. Only when the siht exiting the fan starts hitting hard enough - and that need be really Really _REALLY_ hard, folks may get convinced something better change, or many of us going to leave this planet involuntarily. Fear changes only will come after the latter has happened Edit - played the Stranglers Something Better Change for a bit, now loaded with enough jam to force change with bare hands - _almost_

[@Muddslinger0415]

We have to completely give up on economic growth as a matter of fact we need to give up on economy all together, we have to face the facts that a lot of people are going to die

[@the_phantom_cat7912]

When she said sea surface temps are off the charts, that's not a figure of speech, every time I see a SST graph, the top of the chart is literally representing a higher temperature than before, it's absolutely insane.

[@TreesPlease42]

Grassroots activism is the way! We must liberate ourselves from this catastrophe

[@biashacker]

It will never work......,

[@phrenologisto]

Grassroots activism towards what goal?

[@s-h-e-r-m-z]

Too late

[@MxVerdaArt]

@@phrenologisto take what steps we still can, keep researching more steps to take in future, document and record data and accessibility as these effects mount, and whatever else as may arise.

[@Muddslinger0415]

We don’t have to let people with power and money make decisions. All we have to do is stop playing by their rules. We prepare start growing your own food and stop consuming!! It fucking sucks I know but we really have to go back to a much more simpler life like back in the old days

[@tobywindgassen8427]

You should interview people who want to change the system to the Wellbeing economy through Degrowth

[@alexdetrojan4534]

Tell me, will china and India degrowth too? 😂...I thought not...your argument is invalid.

[@tobywindgassen8427]

@@alexdetrojan4534 why can't they?

[@alexdetrojan4534]

@@tobywindgassen8427 it's not why, it's that they won't.

[@bluester7177]

​@@alexdetrojan4534yes, they will, China is certainly doing more than the US, now, will the developed countries stop transferring their carbon emissions to in-development countries?

[@alexdetrojan4534]

@@bluester7177 🤣 your hopelessly clueless if you think China will. Do some research on what china is really like(especially the CCP...you do know they're communist?) Then come back to the comments section and we can have a discussion.

[@rasputozen]

"Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could tell people 'if you join a local chapter of the Sunrise Movement in your area and go to one meeting a month it could save X-tons of carbon'." - absolutely this calculation should be made. I'd generalize it a bit more though and calculate it based on people going to their local township meetings and bringing up their climate/conservation concerns there. I've been doing that for about 7 months now (1 meeting a month) and I've made some progress reducing the township's fossil fuel usage and road expansion projects.

[@MxVerdaArt]

Nice! Thank you

[@Falla__]

Real change will not occur so long as we continue our further decline into an Oligarchy.

[@captnduck]

"We know things are bad - worse than bad. They’re crazy. It’s like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don’t go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is: ‘Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won’t say anything. Just leave us alone.’ Well, I’m not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get MAD! I don’t want you to protest. I don’t want you to riot - I don’t want you to write to your congressman, because I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write. I don’t know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you’ve got to get mad. (shouting) You’ve got to say: ‘I’m a human being, god-dammit! My life has value!’" And yeah i know the point of the movie is that he goes crazy. But still there is a point, we need to get mad. With a world this crazy, its the only option we have really. And when we do get mad, like with george floyd, then things (not enough but at least things) happen.

[@GrimJerr]

Absolutely, the car left the station long ago on this rollercoaster, and we have been adding to the climb ever since. The rumbling of the chains driving the car is just a sign we are nearing the peak to a plunge and ride No one is prepared for.

[@soliniv1411]

Buckle up butter cup

[@chimichanga3405]

Smoke em if you got em!

[@radikl_ed]

I love taking a quick pause from making fun of Taylor Swift’s plane usage so we can hear Adam suggesting we all have boxes of snacks we don’t need shipped individually across the ocean to our doors. Genius.

[@10base-teaparty97]

I don't really buy the argument that the homeless person is part of that system and has that carbon footprint. You might as well argue that person living in the other country is part of that system and has that same footprint too because hey, they're on the same planet. The problem is that wealthy people with agency have to choose to go without. Period. That either happens or we're screwed. (We're screwed.)

[@m0fr001]

One does not need agency to be part of a "system".

[@10base-teaparty97]

@@m0fr001 But you do for it to be a productive point. I don't think you read even my first whole sentence, I said "and has that carbon footprint." The point is, comparing their participation and footprint to someone in another country, seems a bit silly. It's kind of like arguing the definition of "system" in quotes when you clearly didn't even read an entire comment.

[@zelbinian]

It's important to be jubilant about every tiny win, but then the very next day be righteously angry about how far away the finish line is. It's the knife edge that must be walked.

[@davidpeppers551]

It's a shell game. What good is improved technology and efficiencies within the current system that insists on forever growing?

[@Praisethesunson]

If Apple invents a cheaper renewable energy source. They will intentionally restrict and paywall it just to pad the pockets of the already rich.

[@vylbird8014]

The current system has to grow. That's how modern economics is structured - government spending today is funded by borrowing and depending on future economic growth to reduce the size of those debts relative to GDP. It works, and it works very well - providing the economy is constantly growing, even if only by a few percent a year. A brief recession can be tolerated, but if the growth stops long-term than the scheme collapses - likely ending in hyperinflation, government collapse and people taking wheelbarrows full of cash to do their grocery shopping.

[@davidpeppers551]

@@vylbird8014 Is it your contention that what the world needs is economic growth? Growth is the solution?

[@vylbird8014]

@@davidpeppers551 Growth is only a temporary solution. It can't be sustained forever. There's always a temptation to keep going a few more years, another generation - but eventually resources run out. The productivity-boosting effect of industrialisation is already nearing the end.

[@thomaslusk7621]

It's gaining momentum the oceans are warming the permafrost is going and anything Humans do are not going to stop it.

[@Muddslinger0415]

We will not fix anything we should have stopped I. The early 80s we are fucked

[@astrid.00.7]

Libraries are probably the very best places to reach everyone across the generational spectrum (at least in CA) because there are sooo many people there with laptops utilizing the quiet desk spaces. I've been surprised how many younger people forego Starbucks (and other coffee shops) for the libraries here; most aren't reading the books, but they are gathering, since the pandemic.

[@mostlyAGI]

🌎 Wetlands are amongst our most important carbon sinks. Let's protect habitats as goal #1 ❤️

[@alexdetrojan4534]

Oh boy. 🙄 the oceans are the largest and most important carbon sinks...

[@mostlyAGI]

@@alexdetrojan4534 good catch!

[@martiansoon9092]

@8:00 If AMOC collapses, the temperatures in Norway may collapse by 20 degrees of celsius. That means the land will freeze up. AMOC has been declining since 1930's and the blue blob, from Greenlands melting waters, is forming just above the overturning point, so called subpolar gyre. This part of AMOC has high chance of collapsing in the decadal-centurial scale. One study has found that Gulf stream is stronger in the high melt years, so let's hope this keeps nothern Europe warm and prevents rest of the heat vaning to the south...

[@DanielWatson-vv7cd]

Technology may not stop climate change, but it can help us cope with extreme weather events.

[@j85grim4]

Technology caused this problem, it will never fix it. But yes it could alleviate our suffering from our own stupidity.

[@bluester7177]

To a certain extent, because it can get overwhelmed, it can malfunction, technology is often expensive as someone who lives in the global south and buying an iphone can pay my rent for 7 months, I would know , a lot of people cannot afford it, specially the people that will suffer the most, poor people everywhere but specially poor people in the global south.

[@j85grim4]

@bluester7177 It will just bury us even deeper. More technology means more energy, more ecological destruction, etc. It's the cause of and not the solution to the metacrisis.

[@nahfhey2766]

For a while now i have started to believe that Hope is a negative emotion, because to me Hope is the emotion of Surrender.

[@tigercubrawr159]

I love how Adam is always ready to go to bat for public transport

[@Apjooz]

I guess flying is public transport...

[@ili626]

Adam, thank you for having a sociologist on 👍

[@ChillinLikkkkkkeAVillian]

I'm really appreciating this follow up episode.

[@psikeyhackr6914]

How much CO2 is the result of unnecessary manufacturing due to planned obsolescence? No wait, economists do not talk about planned obsolescence. Actually economists have not noticed the depreciation of durable consumer goods. What is NDP, Net Domestic Product?

[@jay_Jalapeno]

You mean like........teslas?

[@psikeyhackr6914]

@@jay_Jalapeno There is a website called CarEdge that has a Tesla depreciation curve.

[@psikeyhackr6914]

@@jay_Jalapeno CarEdge has a tesla depreciation curve.

[@Linterna001]

Also, how much it is to produce things like heat. Example, metal furnaces require FFs not because of some special property in their composition but rather because of their capacity to generate heat. Electrify that or make it come from a significatly less poluting source and you may have taken over a significant chunnk of the fossil fuel giants.

[@markbowenagates1987]

Unfortunately human beings will never give up extracting resources and consuming voluntarily. Every oz of fossil fuels will be used. Every tree cut for energy. Wars will be fought for resources as scarcity arrives. If any resource is available, it will be consumed until it isn't available. That is just the way it is.

[@marcodallolio9746]

This is capitalist realism. Relentless resource extraction is not an essential and immutable characteristic of humans, but of our current social system, and the idea of humans it embodies. We believe ourselves locusts, and so we behave

[@Ryukachoo]

55:10 Look, basically all virologists and epidemiologists are saying we're in the endemic phase and masking isn't necessary because of multiple vaccination formats and covid has dropped in severity dramatically as it got more virulent Listening to experts has to work both ways

[@LandscaperGarry]

Great podcast...we are not now, or EVER going to get away from fossilized fuels AND keep everyone happy...glad to be an older person.

[@luiscabral9194]

Amazing! Never thought I'd be hoping more people get mad

[@martiansoon9092]

@9:00 Not just selling fossil fuels, but consuming so many items that are made from fossil fuels. Ie. China has been producing so many items that are used in western countries. There has been a huge flow of emissions to the countries that has no policies to keep them as low as needed. It is a common thing to blame countires that does our dirty work for us, when we are the ones to be blamed for.

[@martiansoon9092]

@7:00 Hydropower is not entirely green. The dams are build over land and most often have biomass in their pools. Underwater this biomass creates methane emissions... Also dams block the flow of the rivers altering the water flow. This makes droughts more likely and at the same time the dam lake kills the plants that thrived in that area. It is not that easy to find climate or nature friendly solutions. So far solar power seems to be best one. But that needs energy storages and that causes another bucket of problems. Sand batteries could be good for storing heat, but they are expensive... Geothermal energy could be one option, but it costs much and what does it do to soil? Windmills are ok, but it seems like they alter the behavior of animals in the nearby area. Creating any solution needs resources. And drawing lots of them is whole new problem. But when comparing this to what burning fossil fuels does, we find that the need of mining etc. is far less damaging. Changing to green energy sources is estimated to need 500 times less mining than keep on burning fossil fuels. Stop burning fossil fuels. Today. (And yea, we get some warming from SO2 related aerosol effects while doing so. But the alternative is just getting situation even worse.)

[@tealkerberus748]

Most of what we need to do is just use less energy. Insulate our houses so they take less electricity to heat and cool. Grow as much of our food as we physically can within walking distance of our homes. Demand to work from home wherever that is physically possible. Holiday at home or nearby instead of flying somewhere far away for a vacation. Simplify our lifestyles - buy less stuff, produce less waste.

[@vylbird8014]

@@tealkerberus748 The local food part has issues too - mass-production is just more efficient. Reducing meat consumption would help a great deal. Other than that you're right, but don't forget about the backlash. Look at how many people are buying into conspiracy theories around fifteen-minute cities, because they are horrified at the notion of not owning their own car.

[@martiansoon9092]

@@tealkerberus748 Our own actions means something, but without governmental and global actions, specially against fossil burning, they are simply not enough. Phasing out all fossil burning means so much cleaner energy prodution that all emissions dips downwards. Over 80% of our energy still comes from fossil burning. Stop these emissions and total emission will drop rapidly. Your own actions like suggested, means perhaps 10-30% drop in total energy usage. That is simply not enough. Yet thou all things that reduce our energy usage is good and needed to reduce overall damages. Stop flying and your personal emission drops significantly (even one holiday flight may double your yearly emissions). But also when we ban burning fossil fuels, these filghts are taken down too (some local filgths have electric engines, but rarely at current situation). Our lifestyle is extremely damaging and wasteful. But we worsen the situation by using most damaging energy production systems, specially fossil fuels.

[@Larimerst]

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. We have no viable choice but to continue on the path we have created.

[@Ryukachoo]

Gonna be real here adam The only reason any of this is a problem is because our tech sucks. Of course you'd have all these problems if your energy production is crap compared to fusion, your minimg systems are awful, automated systems are too crappy that they can't replace humans who'd otherwise be exploited for pennies, and if your protein production is from real animals instead of lab grown. Lets just say carbon in energy won't be an issue if solar panels are damn near everywhere

[@Ryukachoo]

The real problem is we don't have a solid bedrock of constant scientific funding that's completely untouchable by other budgets. If we poured 1/10th of the military budget into raw research and science we'd have solar panels and batteries as good as today, in the mid 90s, and we wouldn't be having this conversation

[@hikari1183]

I just finished Hannah Richie's book and did NOT have the take away "technology will save us. " Her book does focus on how technology has helped is in the past but is more geared to the individual and what an individual can do. Unsurprisingly, she can't cover every aspect of climate change in the book or the book would be over a thousand pages long. I'm glad to see someone else has covered the social aspect but that doesn't downplay anything that Richie has in her book. Instead, as Richie says in her book, the two should work together not against each other.

[@bluester7177]

I don't think people were criticising the book, they were probably critiquing what was said in the podcast specifically.

[@NotShowingOff]

Getting ppl to inconvenience themselves voluntarily about something that isn’t oppressing them in the immediate, is hard. Ppl don’t think climate change is bad enough. And they will attribute it to something else

[@anthonymorris5084]

Warming won't be oppressing us in the future either. Life flourishes under warming. Climate policies that induce greater poverty and the growing authoritarianism within the movement is what is oppressing us.

[@nami1540]

This is exactely what was going through my mind. I studdies mechanical engineering in hops of contributing to efficiency and renewable energy. Everyone with a specialization in this field is hopelessly naive and often unable to find a high skill level job. People there still believe that we have not mastered i.e. how to distribute heat in local grid heating systems, how H2 works or how to build wind turbines. The truth is that, whilest there still is research on this, it is very very incremental and often focuses on applied and cost oriented improvements. At the same time professors in this field consult politicians and go to climate conferences instead of being involved in engineering projects. Other conservative engineering fields instead still are heavily involved with fossile fules. They - for example - work on how to compress or extract natural gas more efficiently. The truth is that we mostly optimized efficiency and "gains" that play with the rules of libaritarian politics are basically non existant. We would need to have politicians to solve capitalisms negative sides such as its need for constant growth.

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

Does buying japanese snacks not emit carbon?

[@j85grim4]

😂

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

Adam. Im struggling to hold down my job and cant pay my parents rent. And my region of the world is oil hungry as f. Idk what the hell I can do about anything. 😅

[@red..ridding..h00d]

Vote responsibly and try and be more environmentally friendly and open about wanting cleaner energy ❤️ I really hope things get better soon 🫶🫶 you’ll be okay keep going

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

How do I show up for the world when I can barely show up for myself?

[@lodragan]

Mentally, physically, or both?

[@tealkerberus748]

Anxiety and depression disorders are strongly linked to what scientists like to call "hypersensitivity" to carbon dioxide. If you're part of the massive population suffering from these disorders while breathing air with 50% more carbon dioxide in it than what your body evolved to work with, I'd suggest looking into ways to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide in the air you, personally, are inhaling.

[@andersnygaard909]

Minor but important point about Norwegian wealth - the oil fund certainly plays a role as a source of security and an economic buffer, but the idea that Scandinavian welfare is only possible because of oil money is mostly a right wing talking point. The other Scandinavian countries have also developed successful democracies, without Norway's level of oil wealth.The reason all this oil income and sustainable hydropower is on public hands in the first place is because of social democratic policies and Scandinavian traditions of treating natural resources as a commons.

[@stephangleiner1333]

very enjoyable conversation of two nice people with a brain while im having breakfast before feeding my rams and cycle to town for buying nails and a piece of cake. Sorry, guys, but thats all I can see at that stage. Eat the cake while you still can.

[@SkippingToTheEndOfHistory]

No one was optimistic after this year’s COP- the OPEC COP.

[@red..ridding..h00d]

They made OIL DEALS at the COP 😭😭 thats a whole new level of evil

[@paulzozula1318]

It appears that the resilience of ignorance is much more durable than our physical world. All of the neighbors on my street lost their houses to wildfire. In spite of this and all the wildfires that have been ravaging large areas of California some continued to insist that humanity can not possibly affect the climate. Much of the very young seem to understand our plight and to their dismay observe their hard working to make ends meet middle-aged parents remain oblivious to our climate situation or hold that there is nothing that they can do about it. Much of the the senior population are too set in their ways or are cynical doomers. As the presenters are doing, we must in many different ways do our best to help preserve the viability of our planet. There is no reasonable alternative.

[@Praisethesunson]

Technology cannot solve the problems caused by capitalism.

[@HealingSwordsman]

I have absolutely no faith in the solution she proposes.

[@snorpenbass4196]

Haven't watched yet (in the intro as I type) but my first thought seeing the title was "well, no, it's the implementation that's kinda the problem, we already have what's needed to slow it, maybe even possibly reverse it eventually, but getting the people who profit from wrecking things to stop is...tricky." Personally I say we delete their bank accounts and assets if they don't shape up. See how they make it without their inherited fortunes.

[@tealkerberus748]

Criminalise climate vandalism. It's a valid option in any democracy.

[@MaeMaeMoo00]

I'm glad to see push back on the "online activism". There's less than a million people in all off Alaska, and that's over a massive area that's largely rural and wild. Much of the oil and energy projects can only be reached by private/chartered planes

[@user-nd8ml1vg1q]

The amount of energy we are going to bring online in the next couple of years to train and build out AI for war is going to make people's heads spin.

[@josephwilliamson7350]

To give us hallucinated wrong answers to boot! 😂

[@mk1st]

"Why is progress not being made?" Two words: Shareholder Value.

[@anthonymorris5084]

And how exactly does poverty solve these issues?

[@mk1st]

@@anthonymorris5084 um, it's the inequality caused by the need for "shareholder value" that leads to poverty. Labor is lumped in with other non-sentient costs which often denies people the ability to make a living wage no matter how many hours they work.

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@mk1st There is no moral imperative to create economic equality. If fact, it's impossible and any attempts at trying to achieve this generates a swath of destruction leaving entire societies impoverished and oppressed. It has never worked anywhere in the world, at any time in history, under anybody's management. We even know why it doesn't work. The goal should always be to create opportunity and lift people out of poverty. This demand for "equality" is a fool's errand and the ideology of envy. The profit model is embraced by the entire Western world. The West represents the most successful societies this planet has ever seen. While inequality has been with us since the beginning of time, everybody is getting richer. Everybody. You live better today than a King did 200 years ago.

[@RiverJanewayRoslin]

As much as I would love to do more in person activism between work, exhaustion, and limited financial resources getting to in person movements can be excruciatingly difficult to do if you don't live in the middle of where the action is happening. I barely have time to decompress from work to be able to do it again the next day and not working is not an option. I used to protest more in undergrad but now that I'm in grad school and have a full time job I just can't. So to anyone in similar circumstances do what you can with what you have.

[@sudd3660]

if no one are willing to compromise or sacrifice, then we are not going to get anywhere. most people are going to go thru uncomfortable times and many will not survive.

[@GlobeHackers]

But let's continue to neglect to discuss our socioeconomic system. Even if we had too cheap-to-meter fashion reactors, we'd still have to face the material limits to growth. We want to have our cake and eat the world, too.

[@anthonymorris5084]

Depravation is never the answer. It's myopic AF.

[@GlobeHackers]

@@anthonymorris5084 Are there limits go growth or does techno-optimism widen one's view? You might want to look up Nate Hagens. What level of deprivation are you thinking of?

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@GlobeHackers It's an incredibly large planet that we've barely tapped into. In a free market scarcity is reflected in the price. Prices are stable. You can also tweak or completely undermine our current "socioeconomic system" all you want, consumption is the issue and demand doesn't suddenly or magically disappear unless you force depravation which of course is authoritarian. Over population is at the foundation of almost every single threat facing humanity and nature including the very issue you're citing. Yet the entire discussion has been hijacked by climate zealots, determined to embark on the impossible and lower planetary temps by depriving humanity of life giving inexpensive, reliable energy. Let the depravation begin. Ever seen Mad Max?

[@GlobeHackers]

@@anthonymorris5084 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoDWYXSGr9Weibcsi=s7cmukJyfDmd-Ch0

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@GlobeHackers You can't be serious. You linked me to a writer of fiction? I prefer to examine data that presents facts from actual events that have transpired. Scientists, economists, fiction writers, soothsayers, climate mongers all have an abysmal track record of predicting the future.

[@Termiic]

And again, Adam - topic hits bullseye! Thank you for this episode!

[@researchtwins]

Can we admit that indigenous tribes have figured this out a long time ago?

[@red..ridding..h00d]

This!!!! Native Americans were so SO in touch with nature

[@dalewolver8739]

if you understand "the great simplification" you will know that technology will only make things worse

[@madqueensarai]

What an incredible conversation! Thank you for your work! Lots to think about from this convo.

[@RobPerreault]

Mooooch bettah, lol sry for being so hard on ya sometimes Adam. Keep it coming brother. \m/

[@michaelgonda962]

I love you Adam, you are amazing.... but your last episode infuriated me! Absolutly infuriated me to no end. Everything you said was negative, like you are against everything and we should just give up hope. Multiple things can be true at once. This is a social issue, and we are in serious trouble right now... but at the same time, if we overlook the positive changes that have taken place over the last few years it will depress our ability to adapt. Depressing people into hopelessness isn't helping. - California just ran for 30-some-odd days straight from all renewables for their grid. - 74% of Chinese citizens feel that climate change is a serious or very serious problem; this is giving the Chinese government the political capital to install more than double the world's capacity of solar energy in just 2022 alone. In fact, China is set to install more new solar in 2024 than America has installed ever. And in 2020, China committed to a goal of 1,200 GW of renewables capacity by 2030... it's on track to meet that goal five years early. - Texas, fucking TEXAS is leading the U.S. in solar production, producing over 40% of their electric needs from renewable sources. Things are bad, and I fear for the future.... but things are not ALL bad and massive change has happened just in the last few years. Let's not be a complete downer please, hopelessness doesn't help anyone but big oil. Oh, and I absolutely LOVE Impossible Burgers, did you really have to knock them so hard? : )

[@Encephalitisify]

How do we stop them? We don’t. There’s only one way, and most people don’t have it in them. They got us nice and lazy.

[@john-ug7nc]

17 November 2023 was the first day in which the global temperature exceeded 2°C above pre-industrial levels. But it's going to take another 76 years before the temperature goes up another .5C.

[@noahsark2009]

Right!!! 'N I gotta bridge in Brooklyn I can sell all youse.

[@SorbusAucubaria]

How to survive climate apocalypse- courses should be made. Architects helping people change homes to be energy efficient and passively cold/warm, crafters, seamsters, mechanics, teaching people to make sustainable clothing, fixing their stuff, ecologist helping people farming in sustainable way and helping people to be more self sustainable. Start teaching people sustainable way of life with communities. Groups going around and making neighborhood more environmentally friendly, shades, more meadows, etc.

[@rory1336]

I think libraries, makerspaces, food kitchens/emergency shelters, community gardens, and nature reserves could band together, grow together, and mobilize communities to reinforce and make themselves more resilient to future shocks, with or without capital

[@keigilmore1569]

I embraced the anger a LONG time ago! 😂

[@misaelramos83]

Good stuff Adam! Please invite Nate Hagens on to have a chat?!

[@gangofgreenhorns2672]

It getting worse before it gets better, at this point, means baking in like 4 degrees of warming and a 90+% loss of all life. Also the labor movement is still seeing a net loss in union jobs and wealth disparity is worse than at any time in US history, so... yea. Every silver lining has a touch of darkness lol.

[@podpoe]

How can I help fund this type of research? Are there any nonprofits funding this type of work?

[@j85grim4]

We don't need anymore research. We know what the solution is: lowering both the human population and for rich countries to shrink their economies.

[@PaulHigginbothamSr]

I am so sorry but what you said is dead wrong. About tech not helping us. Crappola. Have ya'll never heard of molten salt thorium breeder reactors? What that means is you can use the nuclear waste from these humongous pressurized water reactors for a fission source to start your molten salt thorium reactors. We need to be building 1 or 2 of these per week and 95% of the energy in that nuclear waste will start these things and if you run a Brayton cycle turbine you don't need to be by a river for cooling. In fact you should put it in the middle of a chemical plant to use process heat from it and make more money than you can for electricity. Get real people this can save humanity if Putin doesn't decide to nuke us.

[@thequietpart_]

1:02:00 Jesus Christ I needed this video, thank you

[@hotshot-te9xw]

So what is essentially saying we need to target heavy industry and agriculture in order to solve the climate crisis

[@TheOriginalSnial]

Re: Techno-optimism and hydrogen (At 10:15). In the 1990s, H2 looked promising, because there were virtually no viable technical solutions and intuitively H2 sounds clean. But today we (a) have easily enough _scalable_ technological solutions that are already challenging emissions and (b) we know why H2 won't work (it's inefficient and sponsored by the FF industry itself, because 98% is made by the FF industry). Today, the only people who want H2 are people with a lack of understanding about decarbonisation technology, rather than a decent understanding as in the 1990s. It's a bit like people in the 1970s saying 8-track tape was the future of audio technology, but because it failed & last week you heard someone praising 8-track, you have no confidence in audio tech, because nothing's changed. In reality, plenty of other successful audio tech appeared. The same is true of climate tech.

[@DavidLindes]

1:10:12 - it's interesting hearing this, with a Naomi Klein book sitting right behind your guest. Granted, it's not _The Shock Doctrine_ ... but still. (And I haven't read or even heard much about Doppelganger, so maybe that one's relevant, too.)

[@reuireuiop0]

Might be no coincidence, as that thought of a similarity in ideas struck my mind just after Dr Fisher coined _Climate Shocks_

[@DavidLindes]

@@reuireuiop0 sounds like I need to familiarize myself more with Dr. Fisher. :)

[@reverands571]

It's about growing food. If people realized the grocery prices are also climate related, they would be motivated to act.

[@TheDoomWizard]

Yeah we're in a predicament. There's no way out.

[@Mike80528]

Sorry, but there is no solution to our predicament. Every attempt to explain a "solution" ignores other aspects of the predicament. Understanding and accepting this will best allow us to prepare for the inevitable. We likely can delay the ultimate outcomes which benefits everyone and everything still alive.

[@johnbarker5009]

Thank you for taking up the cause of everyone doing something. Truly, that's the important thing. Everyone needs to find a way to get involved that fits their abilities and comfort level. The most ridiculous part of all this may be that the economics of energy are rapidly moving toward electrifying everything with renewable energy. In sector after sector it's cleaner and cheaper. Enormous numbers of consumers are ready, and to the extent there are doubters they are usually easy to convince with a little exposure to the new technology. Government is actually putting the brakes on the transition. They're doing it due to special interests, established monopolies, regulatory capture, and the politicians who are bought and paid for by all of the above.

[@MattBuild4]

Imo it would help a lot if all these activists actually took time to understand how energy works.... Because these groups demand a lot and do not appreciate the insane scale of technology that is used to provide you with a good that is so frequently taken for granted..... "They're doing it due to special interests, established monopolies, regulatory capture, and the politicians who are bought and paid for by all of the above." Not to be too cynical, but I cant help but notice how the 60 year backlog of insufficient infrastructure funding and antiquated/consolidated permitting didnt make your list..... Thacker Pass - this lithium mine single handidly has the annual yield capacity to increase domestic supply for EV's by a magnitude of 30! This mine has been in regulated purgatory by the EPA since 2002 - thats 22 YEARS! Now there are some legitimate reasons for why (because not everything in the real world is cookie cutter black and white perfect for everyone), but it is absolutely mind boggling to see activists complain about how action isnt happening fast enough because politics is trying to hinder the green movement, and then these same groups support measures that literally delay the very same projects you are demanding get started....

[@johnbarker5009]

@@MattBuild4 since the grid is mostly in the hands of private entities, aren't you describing the behavior of monopolies being monopolies, as I've described? As example, look at the California fires that were caused by utility lines. They've spent 35 years "maximizing shareholder value" by failing to update their infrastructure.

[@MattBuild4]

@@johnbarker5009 1. To say the grid is mostly in the hands of private utilities is not really accurate. When you think of utilities youre probably thinking of whats called retail utility ownership which are utilities that will sell electricity to the consumer. However depending on the market type this entity may or may not own the actual lines. 2. There are two major types of electrical markets in the US (with some exceptions) - Deregulated wholesale markets that allow for utilities to own any part, all parts, some parts of the electric industry including generation, storage, lines, and retail contracts with consumers. Vertically integrated markets where the utility owns everything from generation to distribution to sale of energy. These two market types can have both public and private companies as well as public corporations managed by states in them. The exceptions to this are TVA and rural communities that fall under the Rural Electrification Act which Power Marketing Administrations (federal entities) provide energy. However to complicate things even more different PMAs have different rules, like BPA will own everything from generation to distribution to sale of energy but SEPA doesnt own any transmission. - An easy to tell if your state is a deregulated wholesale market is if you have an RTO or ISO managing the grid energy market. California for example has the same energy market type as New York and Texas - deregulated wholesale market that is managed by an ISO - CAISO, NYISO and ERCOT (these institutions are public corporations managed with state and federal oversight// except ERCOT, but ERCOT has additional rules as they manage an interconnection and thus are managed internationally by an RCC (Texas Reliability Entity) and NERC (North American Electric Reliability Corporation - manages reliability standards for the entire North American Electrical Grid). If you think everything is just private, im gonna go out on a limb and guess that this is a whole lot of information you had never heard before in your life. Yes management of grid systems is incredibly dense, and tbh im only half way through my full response - so ill stop here and give you a second to understand what I said above.

[@MattBuild4]

@@johnbarker5009 Now ive primarily touched on market development and the players involved in managing those markets from a financial standpoint, but this is only part of the entire management framework of grids. So lets start at the highest level and work down. 3. The highest level consists of NERC and FERC. NERC is an internationally ratified public corporation that sets regulatory standards on system reliability for the entire North American Electrical Grid (Canada, US and part of Mexico). FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission is the primary federal manager of the US grid for the federal government and takes larger consideration for managing systems that distribute energy across state borders (which is everywhere, but theres exceptions in Texas). The US is broken into 3 major electrical grids called interconnections - Western Interconnection, Eastern Interconnection and Texas Interconnection. From there, there are 9 regional subsections of the interconnected grid, which are managed by FERC and NERC's RCCs (Regional Coordinating Councils - these are all public institutions except 1 which is public/private) - NPCC, FRCC, TRE, RFC, MRO, WECC, SERC, SPP, ASCC (should be noted that some of these share managing control in both the US and Canada). From there we look at market managing controllers - PMAs, ISOs and RTOs. PMAs are 100% federal. ISOs are public. RTOs are private. So for example the PJM interconnection is a subsection of the Eastern Interconnection managed by PJM over 14 states. MISO is subsection of the Eastern Interconnection that is managed as a public entity over 11 states. While PMAs are the only federally owned managers, both ISOs and RTOs report up to FERC and are managed by the federal department. As we get down from regional management we go to state management, which now includes every state government's public utility commission and any other state controllers they may have. 4. As ancillary to the "basic" management framework of the electric industry there are several more federal agencies that operate with regulatory capacity on infrastructure deployments for any part of the industry, such as OSHA for worker safety, Bureau of Land Management for permitting, TSOs (Transmission system operators), and in some cases PHNMSA. You also have several agencies that may work in conjunction such as FEMA, NOAA, US Army Corp of Engineering, CISA, DHS, USGS etc. 5. Lastly, there is the US Department of Energy. It is shame how little Americans truly appreciate how important the DOE truly is and just how involved the DOE is with every sector of energy. On top of the amount of grants and recommendation provided, the DOE with US National Labs provide the highest level of energy analysis, innovation and security of energy systems in the world. Even with how ancient and problematic the infrastructure is - these institutions are globally renowned as the pinnacle of human understanding and innovation of energy systems. you can look at projected wind development programs made by PNNL and NREL over 20 years ago and you will find that many of the largest renewable and transmission projects under construction today follow the exact pathway included in these reports.

[@johnbarker5009]

@@MattBuild4 , my point is that nearly every consumer experiences the electric market as a monopoly, or perhaps an oligopoly filled with hucksters and charlatans pretending to offer value when they're really just a middleman adding their own layer of cost. Those who benefit from market concentration are doing what they can to preserve their ability to abuse the customer. Probably the least objectionable and most responsive form of monopoly would be the municipal utility, which at least has local management who are much easier to dismiss and won't hold shareholders more important than the property and lives of their customers. Gee, it turns out I am capable of understanding that not all utilities have the same corporate structure and that markets like the Texas model of allowing Harold Hill to resell what they already have at a markup exist. It just wasn't germane to my point. Save the lecture, the Gish Gallop, and the condescension that drips from comments like "ill (sic) stop here and give you a second to understand what I've said." They're nothing but an attempt to derail the point into minutiae.

[@5ivearrows]

Anti-capitalist anarchists have been analyzing these problems and developing solutions for decades- since the 60s. We have answers for these questions. These talks always dance around the problem without directly addressing it- liberal democracies organized around the profit motive are the engines of our demise as a species and the collapse of the natural environment. Anarchists offer directly democratic means of organizing society.

[@sarahzareth5964]

This is a great talk. Learned a lot and with great action items.

[@fr57ujf]

This is just happy talk. It's like the little engine that could. "We can do it if we pull together." This sounds great, and people love to hear it, but when you crunch the numbers, you see there is no roadmap, only an empty hope. After all the hoopla about wind and solar, they only contribute 3% of global energy. Nuclear contributes another 4%. Fossil fuels still provide 78%. Barring a miraculous breakthrough (after 50 years we're still waiting for that fusion moment), only efficiency and austerity can reduce emissions, but they can only provide marginal gains; they can't solve the problem. That's because the main problem isn't indifference, it's eight billion people. That's where the demand comes from. And it's not getting better. Even though fertility rates are at an all-time low, the population base is now so large that in 2023, another 70 million people were added to the planet. That's more than the population of France. We will not voluntarily stop reproducing, which means that nature will force our hand. The devastation that will be wrought, not just by climate change, but by the destruction of the ecosystem by agricultural and industrial practices, will dramatically trim the global population of humans - and sadly, of many other species. The social, political, and military upheavals this causes will only add to the catastrophe. There is no reason for optimism. But nobody wants to hear that. Three blind mice.

[@foxstele]

It is going to get harder and harder to pretend that things aren't getting worse. Remember last summer so many of Ben Shapiro's viewers complained about the heat he had to make a "Guys, I know it is hot right now..." video. Silver lining will be watching guys like him struggle to argue against climate action.

[@lodragan]

And, ultimately watching their viewership and relevance evaporate like drops of water in the desert.

[@bloo9699]

We're cooked folks.

[@Muddslinger0415]

Yes we are I would say we have about another ten years of a half as normal life, then all hell

[@reuireuiop0]

I find us, most of us at least, highly inedible, so far. So a bit of cooking might help 😅

[@richardlanglois172]

The idea that things will get worse slowly enough to allow people the time to get angry and do something and force sufficient change to undo the damage is DELUSIONALLY OPTIMISTIC.

[@Porifera-Jaymen]

Degrowth first🎉 Innovation as convenient

[@alexdetrojan4534]

Do you think china and India will degrowth also? 😂 Not a chance...

[@Porifera-Jaymen]

@@alexdetrojan4534 It's not a matter of China and India fearmongering. I'm sure many of our unsustainable practices will undergo degrowth to save costs. Can't bargain with the climate crisis to do more fracking.

[@alexdetrojan4534]

@@Porifera-Jaymen no, it's just that if china and India both don't degrowth, then what's the point?

[@Porifera-Jaymen]

@@alexdetrojan4534 The practices, reform and innovation in some degrowth policies or approaches are worth it on their own terms. If "the OTHER nations" don't, then they can model after our examples should they ever. If Canada doesn't change the climate crisis because China and India and the USA refuse to reform, Canada could still have a better, green and hardy energy sector set up because of degrowth to endure the next couple centuries.

[@itzhexen0]

For being independent society is extremely dependent.

[@kk-xj5oz]

the idea that usa is a democrazy is ridiculous, the fact is the liberal democrazy is not functioning democracy. if you want the chang you need direct democrazy if not there will only be small symbolic changes

[@ryanviningtube]

Don't worry, humans will continue to adapt, survive, and thrive.

[@tubbytuber]

Exactly. Now, please buy a subscription to these rice cracker snacks that will be flown to you from Japan.