The 2B25: Russia's Silent Spigot Mortar

The Russian 2B25 Mortar is often described in the media as 'cutting edge' but its actually based on century old technology - it's a spigot mortar! In this video we'll explore how the 2B25 works and just what is a 'spigot mortar'!
Be sure to check out our accompanying article for this video here -
armourersbench.com/2022/01/30/...
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[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for watching! Check out the accompanying article for this video here: armourersbench.com/2022/01/30/the-2b25-russias-silent-spigot-mortar/

[@patriotenfield3276]

Please Review INSAS rifle? or Burmese EMERK MA 1 rifle?

[@HazeMix420]

Tywu

[@hanskc3302]

In russian we have saying "Всё новое - это хорошо забытое старое", which could be translated to "All new is just well forgotten old", heh.

[@Danheron2]

That’s good I’m gonna start using that

[@Bialy_1]

"нас много" is the most popular in Russia, especialy in the army... "нас много" = "there are many of us" so this two other soldiers that left the guy alone during presentation of the system must be some western spies as they were not acting according to that Russian saying/rule!

[@Bialy_1]

@@Danheron2 "In 1824, the memoirs of the milliner Marie Antoinette, Mademoiselle Bertin, were published in France, in which she said these words about the Queen's old dress that she had renovated (in fact, her memoirs are fake, their author is Jacques Pesche). This thought was perceived as new, too, only because it was well forgotten. Already Geoffrey Chaucer (1340-1400) said that "there is no new custom that is not old." This quote from Chaucer was popularized by Walter Scott's The Folk Songs of Southern Scotland. " If you ever visit Russia you gonna learn that they invented everything... For example they invented vodka when they ordered some from Poznań/Poland(first mention of vodka in any Russian text is on list of stuff that they ordered from Poznań. 🤣) And in this case they most likely invented it in Georgia where in 2011 GNM-60 was developed and in the same year the patent from this video was filed(published in 2013)...

[@PatTheRiot]

100%. It literally is. All of it. We are nothing compared to this celestial body we call earth. It is one big organism that lives at a rate we cannot possibly comprehend. We are just bound to a living cycle that fuels her. One way or another. Even in the inevitable nuclear winter endgame scenario. She just wipes it off clean, get something "new" going. We have a 2000 yrs old civilisation that we remember of. You can fit 20 of these in our known humanoid span. We know 1/20th of it, at best perfection.

[@Erreul]

Yup, holds true everywhere man.

[@chaosXP3RT]

The Japanese had huge spigot mortars that they used against the US during WWII. They were pretty rare, but were terrifying and lots of damage

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes, I'm working on a video about it at the moment! Thanks for watching.

[@miikapekk5155]

Your comment sounds like you were there, surely you can't be that old?

[@QuinnShaw]

@@miikapekk5155 Something can be terrifying without having experienced it.

[@demef758]

@@miikapekk5155 Like, dude, how can it be real if I didn't see it on twitter or facebook?

[@miikapekk5155]

@@demef758 I wasn't trying to insult the guy it was genuine question. Maybe he was a kid at the time or his parents told him stories.

[@Surv1ve_Thrive]

As said here the British PIAT was a spigot mortar. For the negatives, it was useful in urban fighting, no back blast blast and overall reduced firing signature.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Indeed Nick, a much misunderstood weapon. One of my favourite parts of researching it for the book was realising to how unfairly maligned it is as a weapon.

[@HellskyMr]

... and have extra quick reload time !

[@Zoddom]

Ive always thought the piat was completely spring powered?!

[@TheArmourersBench]

A common misconception for sure!

[@evulclown]

@@TheArmourersBench Good to know, I had read and carried this misconception too... Is there no spring at all in it? So really slow velocity and range were downsides. But concealment and indoor usage are quite handy!

[@MrSolLeks]

I own a PIAT, they are really neat. Never really fired it though, just launched a few water bottles out with the massive spring. I don't know if I would honestly want to actually fire it lol.

[@TheArmourersBench]

You're a lucky man, yeah the spring does a decent job of throwing bottles and cans. Don't do it too often though the impact of the spigot body against the front buffer can shear the bolts that hold it in place and cause the front plate to dislodge. Check out Stray03, he has some videos of his firing the scolding practice shot, very cool. Thanks for watching.

[@MrSolLeks]

@@TheArmourersBench Yep, I only did it a few times, figured something bad could happen if I did it often. One of my oldest vids on this site is a crappy vid of me doing that too and for the longest time it was the only vid on youtube with a PIOT lol. I have been able to source a practice round for it, cost quite a bit and won't be shooting it, but it would be neat to fabricate some practice rounds that fit in the tray (which I also have) and use shotgun shells to launch them. Keep up the good work man.

[@richardkudrna7503]

I met a guy who found 3 live rounds in stores around 1973. He borrowed the PiAT from the museum and fired them in the woods. Later he learned that a small percentage of these would explode at launch, killing the user.

[@davidjames2145]

@@richardkudrna7503 😮 🤣

[@demos113]

What was old is now new. ;-)

[@garner2267]

Yo i thought this was old. These guys are wearing equipment before the ratnic program.

[@dogz70]

Just got this recommended 👌

[@middleageddad]

Old is the new new?

[@garner2267]

People still kill each other wit sticks and stones... lol

[@steve9216]

The old is now patented so someone can make $$$

[@isaal-magyari9203]

wow,just fantastic content once again, I was looking for info on this several weeks ago and your video covers it nicely,Thank you. The russians do love the "silent piston" concept for weapons I've noticed

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you, very glad you found it interesting. Its a clever system, makes smart use of the spigot concept. Thanks for watching!

[@cyberherbalist]

As a former mortarman in the US Army, this is fascinating! Great video!

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks Mike, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@Del_S]

The reduction in muzzle flash seems like a useful thing in night time operations.

[@Dogmeat1950]

Why we have flash suppressors...

[@joe125ful]

Why?:):)You still shoot on relative long range anyway...

[@evulclown]

@@joe125ful because you don't want counter battery fire coming back at you. If they can see the muzzle flash in the distance or locate you with drones then you're going to be in a world of hurt.

[@joe125ful]

@@evulclown Hah if there is drones they can see you throw thermal camera anyway and mostly you not shooting from open space too.

[@MultiBjorn21]

I have heard the claim about this being a 2 man weapon. And wile the use of this weapon might only take 2 man that is not the end of the story. As a 81mm mortar man I can say with confidence that walking in without a ammo cart is a really bad move. Usually it takes 8 to 12 shots from your first position to be on target (as per protocol, faster is possible). We had a company foot manoeuvre and the captain told us we needed to walk all our gear in. About 10 km so what we carry is what we shoot. This meant the whole company had to carry 2 or 4 rounds to have some effective fire support. (About 4kg per shot). That is offcours on top of mg’s + ammo, At4’s, radio’s, food, water, medical supplies (like stretchers) and all the other good stuff. To ad to that every round needed to be walked in to the mortar pit. So all movements were true one route. In my 6 years of service I have never heard so much upset sgt’s. Yes you can walk in a 81mm with ammo but no you shouldn’t.

[@semprelazio8864]

:) nice story. So in your opinion is having a semi silent morter beneficial. I mean use are letting of bombs the idea of being silent on release a positive plus idk ? No muzzle flash this hear is claimed is of course a good thing. Do other type mortars have a flash

[@MultiBjorn21]

@@semprelazio8864 well there are probably uses for the mortar so I don’t know. I would rather have the 81mm with 5,5km range, or the 120mm on 7,5km. Range is better safety than silence.

[@chucktheiceman8623]

These mortar are useful in jungle environment and guerilla warfare

[@Schralenberger]

English Vets(survivors of sword , and Juno, and the hedge rows), claimed the Germans, could put a mortar round down your collar. Often on the first round. Down your collar is an obvious exaggeration. But obviously means hitting dead on. This also considering, that not all of the units at Normandy( in the Heer) were first rate, but conscripts. In Vietnam, they often complained of VC mortar "snipers". They would infiltrate, fire a round or two, and disappear back out. They were nowhere as accurate as the Wehrmacht. But they hit their targets far too often enough. Sometimes with copies of W2, Japanese knee mortars. Only accurate at slightly over 100 yards.But still good enough, when fired close in as they did.

[@KuK137]

@@Schralenberger Yup. The fact burgers are too lazy to properly aim and need wagons of ammunition to do the job doesn't mean other armies can't do the job...

[@southronjr1570]

The US developed a .45 cal cartridge similar to that for use in the tunnels of Vietnam. They had some issues with the cases rupturing causing failures but it stayed a niche weapon and system.

[@boc234]

No, it was a shotgun shell.

[@Phisherphish]

This looks a lot like a scaled adaptation of the Captive Piston Cartridges the Soviets developed for silent pistols. It's interesting to see this idea applied to a mortar, certainly.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Definitely parallels I think, ot sure if they influenced directly! Thanks for watching.

[@Mryodamiles]

​@@TheArmourersBench I think French LGI Mle F1 mortar uses similar captive piston cartridges and is supposedly only 52 dB

[@TheArmourersBench]

I believe so yes, might be worth a video, will see if I can get a look at one in person.

[@StevenHoober]

@@Mryodamiles Yes, that is the name for the Fly-K in French service. Seems to be quieter but maybe different measuring system? Unclear to me.

[@Peter-lm3ic]

Reminiscent of the 2" mortar issued to Infantry Battalions as a Platoon weapon in the British Army up to the early 1950's. A usful weapon but did require some practice for accurate operation. As an ex Mortarman No.1 can never understand why it was ever discontinued. The problem with this Russian weapon I would suggest is the weight of the weapon and it's bombs for an infantryman to carry any distance.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes withdrawal of the 2in/60mm is a bit silly if you're then supposedly relying on 40mm grenade launchers for the same. I guess it's all doctrinal.

[@cesaravegah3787]

Russian weapon designers for infantry tend to focus on relibiality and durability acepting heavier weights for the weapons and ammo compared with western designs which tend to be lighter but not as rugged, each aproach have its merits and disavantages.

[@MrSolLeks]

I would also argue that the rounds are far more complex to make, thus making them more expensive and less prone to mass use.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes, they absolutely are more complex than a conventional round. Definitely a niche weapon.

[@Chiboza]

@@cesaravegah3787 Russian infantry is mostly motorized, so heavier weight is not a big problem.

[@MtnBadger]

When I was a munitions systems specialist in the Airforce, we played with some spigot mortars. We called them the "bottle rockets" of the mortar world because that's what they remind you of when they fire. Though not exactly quiet, thave a sort of "whizzing" sound as opposed to the kerTHUNK sound of a standard mortar.

[@archiegeorge3969]

Loved your book on the PIAT and the book on the sterling. I hope you have other Osprey books planned. I’m glad to find this channel.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you so much Andrew that's great to hear. Yes, working on a few things at the moment, just working on an expanded PIAT book and a couple other projects too. Glad you found the channel, thanks for watching!

[@lasagnakob9908]

It's really interesting to see countries developing and using much simpler technologies from a bygone era to adapt towards modern threats. Similarly, Russia developed its own "Technical" trucks for warfare like in Syria, mounting any manner of weapon for any purpose, all while being mobile and cheap.

[@rhpsoregon]

The captive piston reminds me of the "silent" buckshot shells that the Green Berets had in Vietnam. They had an telescoping foil tube attached to the wad that pushed the shot out the barrel while keeping the propellant gasses confined to the barrel.

[@syrfuzed131]

Thank you was trying to figure out the exact reason a spigot mortor is different from a normal one only video that said the difference instead of telling me about ww1 thank you

[@314299]

This is certainly the proper channel to review this type of equipment.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Haha thank you. I would happily do an in person review if they want to send me one!

[@vadimsegida2320]

great content and info! thanks

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you, thanks for watching!

[@crapemail8176]

Thank You! Excellent vid!

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you!

[@LeaveMeAlonePlz]

Very interesting, thank you!

[@TheArmourersBench]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!

[@thienbui898]

Cool Vid dude. Your channel is very underrated, but have great potential.

[@lowtdave]

Just found your channel. Already a big fan. Thanks for putting all this together.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks David! Great to hear you're enjoying them. New videos every Sunday and a war movie podcast I co-host goes up on Fridays.

[@MuxauJ7]

I find it interesting that there's so little effort put into making auditory signatures the same across different weapons systems. Especially given there was such efforts made in some instances for just hiding it or for enhanced psychological effects.

[@Laotzu.Goldbug]

It's likely a lot more trouble than it's worth, if it's even possible. It's one thing to reduce the noise level, or change the tone to be different from what the weapon would sound like regularly. It's another thing to try to make completely unrelated weapon systems sound the same. Even two examples of the exact same gun family can be a little different.

[@dermotrooney9584]

Thanks for sharing.

[@Vibraza]

Nice vid, thx

[@iknowmy3tables]

Spigot and rifle barrel launched munitions have a significantly reduced weight for launchers that can't be ignored. Especially when a heavy but effective system is likely to be left behind. Having many launchers for an ambush or a means of having shaped charges with minimal weight will keep the spigot concept around for a long time

[@JimmySailor]

Launcher weight is reduced but the weight of the complete round goes up. Spigot mortars essentially throw their barrels down range with every shot. It can be mitigated, but in a scenario where every round has to be packed in the two man team can’t carry as many as a conventional set up.

[@iknowmy3tables]

@@JimmySailor I agree for sustained fire the concept is bad, but it's very similar to rocket or gun Based artillery comparison good for different applications and neither is obsolete

[@kevinpunk2006]

Awesome content, I subbed!

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you!

[@QuantumPyrite_88.9]

A very interesting video and much appreciated. Thanks.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you and thanks for watching!

[@EzraMerr]

Good explanation and video 📹 👏🏻

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you and thanks for watching!

[@Motoboo_Marine]

I find it interesting how they applied this same technology to some of the small arms they were developing, like those pistols that used suppressed ammunition.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes indeed the captured piston idea is clever.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

Looks pretty similar to the Georgian GNM-60. The multi-section propellant being adaptable sounds like a factory option for the tail assembly, with the Fly-K, loading and range tables can be to customer's requirements especially as there's no option for secondary clip on propellant charges as on regular mortars. So, with the spigot, the only use of the tube is as an attachment point for the stand and aiming device. (ps I owe you an email, haven't forgotten).

[@TheArmourersBench]

I see, that makes sense. Not familiar with the GNM-60, I shall look at that. Ahh, thank you, will look out for it!

[@danmorgan3685]

Nifty! It reminds me of the French mortar that fills the same niche.

[@StevenHoober]

@@danmorgan3685 Also the Fly-K as mentioned at the very end. German/French project, the French call it something else, but same exact system.

[@death31313]

Admittedly the captive piston munitions this thing uses are unique and also something that is petty much exclusively Russian. Russia has a number of captive piston suppressed weapons including a number of pistols like the PSS and a series of grenade launchers like the BS1 Tishna. Really cool to see that being put into a mortar, seems like an ideal application since there are really no major downsides I can see.

[@danmorgan3685]

Well, reduced range is a pretty big downside but the Russians have plenty of conventional mortars to fill that gap.

[@death31313]

@@danmorgan3685 I don't know if this necessarily limits the range too much in comparison to other light mortars but ya, if other mortars in its weight and size class have considerably longer range capabilities that would be a pretty big downside

[@akulkis]

Piston retention reduces range, because once the pisto bottoms out, it's must go from velocity = zero, to velocity matching the rest of the projectile. Because of the law of conservation of energy, that means that some of the kinetic energy of the projectile is transferred into the retained piston, so that V²[mortar, muzzle-]*m[mortar] = V²[mortar, muzzle+]*(m[mortar] + m[piston]) where the subscript muzzle- and refer to the time just before the piston reaches the bottom of the retention tube, and muzzle+ refers to just after the piston bottoms out and begins travelling at the same velocity as the main mass of the projectile. m[mortar] is the mass of the projectile, minus the piston m[piston] is the mass of the piston.

[@death31313]

@@akulkis obviously there will be losses in maximize theoretical velocity no matter what system you employ. That said most light mortars like this are already relatively low velocity. I can't find too much velocity data on current issue mortars but the US m2 60mm mortar that was replaced in 1978 had a muzzle velocity of 158 M/S. the mortar that replaced it the m224 has roughly double the effective range so one can assume it has a muzzle velocity of around double that so 316 m/s. From what I've read the 2B25 has a maximum muzzle velocity of 320 m/s, so sounds like the piston doesn't hinder it much at all. Obviously my math isn't perfect and there are a lot other variables to take into account considering these systems aren't an apples to apples comparison. Edit: further reading looks like the 2B25 82mm I was looking at has a max range of about 6000 Meters which puts it more close to the US m252 81mm mortar which has a max range of 5935 Meters. Seems there is more than one 2b25 silent mortar Hard to say how accurate any of this data is considered some of it is clearly rounded while some isn't but seems like they're in a similar ball park.

[@akulkis]

@@death31313 I once was once assigned to be the commo support for a battalion mortar platoon. One day, I was observing from the end of the gun line, at a distance of about 20 meters from the closest gun. Afterr a few shots, I was able to just barely spot the 120mm shells about 10 seconds into the flight. As the day went on, I could detect and visually track up the bomb earlier and earlier in it's flight. Because the timing of dropping releasing the bomb from the "hang" position at the muzzle, the detonation of the propellant, and emerging from the muzzle is such a consistent rhythm, By about 1600, I could actually see the bomb emerging from the muzzle, and visually track it's movement to near the top of it's flight, at which point it became too small to track with the unaided eye. I wish there were digital cameras back then, because I would have been able to get some cool pictures of the bombs just as they left the muzzle

[@chalkster4723]

A fascinating alternative to the otherwise universally recognised common design. Great video.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for watching!

[@JimmySailor]

Each round weighs 3.5 kg yet the warhead is just 1.9 kg. That’s the price of a quiet mortar, each round weighs almost double what it would in a conventional set up as each one carries it’s own “barrel” down range with every shot. It actually would probably be better just to fit a baffle system to a conventional mortar. It won’t be “silent” but you could probably get it down to around 130 decibels. You’d pay for it in weight of the tube, but a heavier tube means less impulse on the baseplate so some of the weight could be gained by with a lighter baseplate. I’m guessing it would also moderate recoil impulse, which is something. I’m sure someone’s tried this, but it seems doable and maybe a practical advantage for something like a 60mm system where the enemy is probably close enough to hear.

[@evulclown]

Yeah, I'd imagine this would be very useful for special operations teams needing support fire without disclosing locations. Would probably need an electric ATV for carrying ammo though, whatever fits in that second backpack is nowhere near the amount of ammo you'd need for it to be worth even bringing on operations.

[@kevinfox1780]

The exterior mortar tube acts as a crude suppressor

[@courierdog1941]

The Canadians had what was called the Hedgehog on their Corvettes They were Spigot mortars firing sequentially in a cluster.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes! RN and US also had them, ostensibly part of the same family as the Bombard and PIAT. Thanks for watching.

[@greylocke100]

There was an OSS/SOE spigot mortar with both shaped charge and HE heads. There used to be several videos on youtube about it, but I can no longer find them.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Don't worry I'm working on a video all about those.

[@emitindustries8304]

I once made a version of a spigot mortar, using model rocket engines. A friend and I had been making our own model rockets out of PVC tubing used for plumbing. For this project, I put a model rocket motor, probably a D-0, at the top end of a PVC tube, and attached folding plastic fins at the bottom end. Then I made a launch tube to put the rocket into. To add thrust, we put some gasoline and loose gunpowder inside the rocket tube. We had concluded that containing the thrust of the motor would increase the power considerably. We went out to a public park to experiment with our creation. We placed the rocket launch tube at an angle, hooked up the wires to the igniter, and hit the launch button. The rocket took off from the launch tube, and went up about 10 ft. After 10 ft, the heat from the rocket motor started to soften the PVC tubing, which caused the tubing to become like a piece of very wet macaroni. At that point it became the "wandering missile of death"! The rocket went up, down, left and right, and corkscrewed all over within a 30 ft radius. We ran for cover behind our car. After a few seconds, the rocket finally burned out and flopped to the ground, all bent, smoking and twisted. We tried the second rocket we made, with the same scary results. We determined that the pvc tubing was the wrong material for this experiment. Any serious heat on pvc renders it soft and pliable, not desirable for a model rocket capable of poking you in your face. After that, we made our own model RPG launch tube, complete with pistol grips and sights, for shoulder fired rockets. It could have been used as a movie prop. Just as we were about to try it, in the late 80s, the whole terrorism thing was getting serious. We decided that anyone seeing us with our TOY would get worried, so we gave up the concept. We didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on lawyers proving that the thing WAS a TOY, with no malicious intent. Unfortunately, KZbin lost an opportunity to watch 2 fools blow themselves up, or at least burn their eyebrows off.

[@kloc072386]

That's slick

[@doorhinge2039]

The action looks similar to the PSS pistol, where the piston was enclosed within the bullet casing and pushes forward to propel the round.

[@travisadams4470]

This is similar to the Japanese Knee Mortars used during WW2

[@TheArmourersBench]

They do have the trigger arm in common. Thanks for watching!

[@LuLu-sf5cg]

Awesome toys. Very efficient and effective.

[@shadown5757]

Interesting

[@signorpippistrello]

As you hopefully know a lot about the PIAT: did you notice the cut in the footage that makes you believe it’s super easy to reload?

[@jamesbridges7750]

The Fly-K is a pretty cool system. Although smaller payload and shorter range, there are multiple launcher variants including turret mounts and a 12(?) launcher ground mount . I believe the French have some in service .

[@jeffreyprezalar220]

Same multi-launcher,range is not much different,but the payload for destructive purposes is actually better.

[@fraserconnell21]

Is it like the p.i.a.t. ? Appologies, you just answered my question as I was asking it.👍👍

[@TheArmourersBench]

Haha, it is a bit! Thanks for watching Fraser!

[@DJSockmonkeyMusic]

Finally made it to the video i was looking for! Haha, only spend half an hour watching other videos first. Mortars are cool. I dont know how they work. I always thought itd be easy to lose a finger? I guess im about to find out! Edit i like the trigger system! But the other video where they seem to have ditched the base plates, theyre heavy for a reason guys!

[@victuff9765]

Nice video Matt, the report sounds very much like an air rifle!

[@TheArmourersBench]

It does doesn't it!

[@victuff9765]

@@TheArmourersBench I guess it qualifies as a PCP 😉

[@grimsurvivor]

Seems like it could be a platoon organic weapon vs a company level one, decentralizing indirect fire support even further

[@509Gman]

Which would be awesome.

[@tomstanton6952]

Who knew 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️🙌🏻🇺🇸 now I do 🙏🏻👍 thanks brother & nicely done video 👏🏻👏🏻

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks Tom!

[@Juan_Stabone]

When can I expect to see these at my local gun and knife show?

[@cujbaion1]

The smaller pressure area makes it short range usable for infantry against personnel behind fortifications instead of artillery like class used against heavy armoring like tanks and tank suport mashinegun and missile platforms.

[@quinnfell3824]

3:10 Comrade! We have a crack in our defences

[@bernardfrederic6535]

First: Spigot mortars were in wide use in WWI. Second: I'd say, the most famous one might be the hedgehog anti-submarine launcher. And as encore: I WWI Germany used a nearly reportless morter, driven by compressed air.

[@IsaacKuo]

Very fascinating! I wonder if the spigot mortar could make an anti-tank comeback, using something like a BONUS submunition. That submunition was already designed to survive the acceleration of a 155mm artillery gun, so I think getting shoved into the air by a spigot mortar should be no problem. Practically silent (the enemy is riding in noisy tanks) and no flash ... doesn't kick up any dust ... the tanks would have no warning and no way to tell where the anti-tank crew was. So, the anti-tank crew could fire off a number of shots without an immediate need to change position. OTOH, the anti-tank crew could simply use a radio to call in a 155mm BONUS strike ... a lot less weight to hump around that way ...

[@joemorganeatmyshortschannel]

I like it

[@JohnDoe-pv2iu]

I was thinking Spetznatz about 1 minute into the video! What benefit is there to a two man portable and silent mortar, when all of your tactics are based on Division (and larger) fighting units. Great Video, Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John

[@JohnDoe-pv2iu]

PS, I liked and subscribed. Please continue with interesting and informative content.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks John, I'll doy best!

[@communist7624]

Well with mortar detectors can find where is was fired but those are vehicle mounted

[@randomargument972]

It might be silent, your enemies wouldn't be alerted, but, you're gonna fire less rounds and logistics of transportation would carry less rounds because it's longer projectile. Two or three times less for the same amount of space and transport cycle.

[@floatingchimney]

This is never intended to replace regular mortars, it's only for special operations and for that you don't care as much for logistics.

[@randomargument972]

@@floatingchimney I know, it's good for diversion tactics or ambush

[@bamxire8845]

@@floatingchimney Perfect for Special operations.

[@redtobertshateshandles]

Yes, it's a gizmo. Enemies will be alerted by the explosion of the war head and seek retribution.

[@randomargument972]

@@redtobertshateshandles It's because there are sound-detecting devices (even used in cities in United States to determine where noise is coming from if active shooter is somewhere). There are devices and military equipment that can check out where is your position from which you're firing. But even humans have natural devices to detect the direction from which noise (enemy fire or shelling) is coming from - your ears. Even if you're experienced field officer, you can even say the distance of the shots fired or shells fired or the type of firearm/equipment used. So to avoid that, you use suppressors for firearms or 'suppressed' aka silent mortars for shelling.😄

[@EricDaMAJ]

It seems a good system for fighting in forests, jungles, hills, and suburbs. Maybe a little more limited in full urban environments and deserts where damage output vs. concrete structures or protected defilade fire positions are hard to come by. Mortars that small are rarely worth bothering with counter battery fire as they move too quick and don’t provide much damage to target. But when they are radar can pick them up easy. However, armies that still use acoustic weapons locations are at a distinct disadvantage. The real challenge for a western army is clearance of fire protocols. The real mortar problem remains what it always is: ammunition supply. Infantry either have to pack more rounds in their rucks (which is a bitch) or the firing position is always potentially compromised by a parade of ammo trucks. If the Ruskies developed a thermobaric round they may really tip the scales in their despite it likely not performing that well due to size constraints.

[@ljubomirculibrk4097]

Its intended for airport, radar, mlrs, mostly soft targets. To be used for raids deep on enemys teritory. Thats why its just 80mm, not much weight, just as it shoud be

[@titter3648]

So what is the patentable feature? Is it the fact that it uses a piston to capture the gasses? Or has that been done on spigot mortars before?

[@Evergreen1400]

3:11 I had to rewind and pause just to make sure I was indeed seeing some soldier plumber crack

[@TheArmourersBench]

Hahahah

[@alephkasai9384]

Wow, 13 kilos? That light? Damn

[@marleyboy7732]

I wonder if the "night arrows" from medieval times had anything to do with this idea. This was pretty cool!

[@TheArmourersBench]

Glad you found it interesting, I've never heard of Night Arrows, will have to look them up. Thanks for watching!

[@peterhughes7649]

What munition types are available for this?

[@TheArmourersBench]

I couldn't find details on that, but anyone knows I'd love to hear from them.

[@nicolas8098]

I see the 2B25 more as an adaptation of the soviet/russian piston ammunition programs to heavier ordonnance than a return of spigot type of mortar . About piston ammo i highly recomand Dvoryaninov volume 3 book which cover it in extreme details . Plus , i'm not sure of where you got the 135db for AKM+ PBS-1 +US makes 135db , from all the data i've found this setup makes less noize than VSS with SP-6 (on the first shot thanks to silencer design but will go worse after 3-4shots ) and according to data VSS makes 130dB

[@zoiders]

I believe these are derived from systems previously deployed on an over barrel mount on Russian AFVs?

[@TheArmourersBench]

They could well be, I had a feeling they might be but I didn't come across any mention of them. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if it evolved from other Russian spigot weapons.

[@KaDaJxClonE]

This isn't new. The US has mortar finding radars which track the munition though it's flight to find it's origin. This water design will not fire longer than the standard artillery piece m

[@JohnCBobcat]

Seems similar in concept and application to the French LGI mle. F1, though that's only roughly a 51mm or 2" weapon, if my Googles haven't led me astray.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes indeed, I believe that's another name for the Fly K I mention. One of the only. Other spigot based designs in use! Thanks for watching.

[@a-man2246]

Can't find the patent online, ive been looking for reliable public access sites and would appreciate if you could recommend any

[@TheArmourersBench]

I have a link to the patents in the accompanying article for this video, link in the description. Thanks for watch!

[@mohammedimran3670]

other downside of a spigot mortar be small payload and cost manufacturing pressure bearing parts for ammunition mortar

[@TheArmourersBench]

Absolutely, it is way more expensive to make numerous small tubes than one large reusable one.

[@Crosshair84]

@@TheArmourersBench Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, so apologies if I misunderstand. I could easily see this being close to the same cost or cheaper than a conventional mortar. Large diameter pressure tubing isn't exactly cheap. Nor is maintaining the tolerances for both the large tube and the mortar projectiles. In addition to smaller diameter pressure tubing being far cheaper, the fact that you only need to worry about it being used once means that you can use comparatively lighter tubing. All the important tolerances are also completely contained in the projectile. Have tubing that is slightly larger or smaller in inner diameter? You can use a correspondingly sized plug to compensate for that and produce completely safe and effective ammunition that you know will work perfectly fine in any launcher. Meanwhile, the outer diameter of the tubing isn't all that important, so can have a wide tolerance. The smaller warheads are more of a tradeoff than a disadvantage. Sure each individual round will do less damage, but you get more rounds to fire for a given weight. It's like asking if a 308 Winchester or a 223 Remington is better. Yes the 308 is more powerful, but you can carry more rounds of .223. This mortar also doesn't have as much range as more conventional mortars. About 1200 yards vs 4500+ yards for more conventional mortars. That does beg the question of "How far do troops typically NEED to shoot with an ~80mm mortar?" Much like with the similar debate with infantry rifle cartridges, it could be the case that 95%+ of the time a 1200 yard range is more than adequate. On top of this, the launcher itself is much lighter. So once you've expended your ammunition, you're left with carrying a launcher that's about a third of the weight of a more conventional mortar.

[@Seth9809]

I'm from the future and this video feels differently.

[@user-bs9yn5uz7n]

Я так понимаю, у мины принцип как у патрона к ПСС "Вул"? As I can understand, the bomb has the same principle as ammo for "Vul" silent pistol?

[@haroldellis9721]

1:20 Which I have read, and recommend.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thank you Harold!

[@jamesvandemark2086]

As the Brits say: A handy piece of kit!

[@jeffprice6421]

So, a spigot mortar looks like a rocket essentially. Does it consume the propellant by the end of the launcher tube?

[@jonjonsson6323]

The blast would be heard so it is still impractical as an attack weapon , basically due to a recoiless rocket launcher has much more versatile use.

[@arbhall7572]

This is easily one of the most terrifying new weapons I've seen. I'm not afraid of jets or smart bombs. It's when ground pounders have truly effective weapons that I start worrying. Nothing is scarier than a teenager with high explosives.

[@gamecubekingdevon3]

Quite funny to see thzt in the footage, thoose russian soldiers seems to be wearing either ssh68 or 6b14 helmets

[@joelcraig9803]

Now if only they could come up with a mortar shell that doesn't make any noise.

[@AKlover]

So why not build on an actual Suppressor/Muffler to slow the exit of the gases further as the projectile leaves???? How many rounds can be launched before the first round lands is I think very relevant as well? I would want to pull the mortar and run like hell as soon as the first round lands.

[@untermench3502]

During the Viet Nam conflict, there was a silent 40mm round that worked on much the same principal, except that the propellant gasses were retained in the cartridge by an expanding metal bag. The projectile was pretty much normal in operation. It was pretty easy to accomplish since the M79 had a low noise signature to begin with.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Very interesting, I will have to look that up!

[@quantumthings5894]

remind me of the french LGI, the origin of the FLY-K system. it's basically the same things as this russian mortar but lighter and smaller.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes indeed! Thank you for watching.

[@zokikisystemcom1705]

What will happen if you drop that

[@SpaceFrawg]

Does the Combat Rifle Coloring Book come with a black Crayon?

[@TheArmourersBench]

Hahah the overheads were too high! Anyway that frees you to explore the rainbow, don't let tradition and US Army doctrine hold you back!

[@danzigrulze5211]

15 rounds per minute. It's also less effective because the mortar round is so small. I'm sure the effective blast radius is very small compared even to a 60mm mortar used by most nations. We would have an output of 10 rounds in under thirty seconds on a 120mm mortar, this time would be reduced to only a few seconds. Added that this is only one gun, as a full platoon of mortars would have up to 4 guns running at the same time. Sure the design is great for a light infantry setting where weight reduction is a plus, but I would rather have 81mm mortars with a higher rate of fire, and a larger blast radius over the spigot mortars shown on this video.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

The PIAT helped us long time during battle of Longewala

[@TheArmourersBench]

I've heard this said but I tried to find out if that was what was used and could find any sources on it. I couldn't contact any Indian museums either sadly. If it was used then that would be the last combat use of the PIAT!

[@user-tq1wf1uu6f]

Launcher : 60 Hawn : 3000

[@ey_bud1620]

Very cool. I was a gunner on a 120mm for years and my hearing is subsequently ruined.

[@jhnshep]

in the legion (french army) we had the LGI

[@TheArmourersBench]

Very interesting bit of kit.

[@drgonzo305]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the piat was fired by way of a compressed spring

[@TheArmourersBench]

A common belief, but the spring was principally to soak up the recoil of the bomb firing. The spring also acted like the action spring on the PIAT's firing pin that set off the propellant cartridge in the base of the bomb.

[@drgonzo305]

@@TheArmourersBench well that clears up something for me, It didn't seem possible for a spring(at least one that size) to fling a pretty big shell at least a couple hundred yards.

[@TheArmourersBench]

@@drgonzo305 exactly! The spring alone wouldn't throw the round more than a few yards. They're really interesting weapons, a design dead end but a novel idea! Working on some videos on them at the moment. Thanks for watching.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

So it's just a more user friendly PIAT? By user friendly, it does make it much easier to fire from indoors. For urban combat that's a good benefit

[@TheArmourersBench]

It's actually also similar to a precursor to the PIAT and Bombard, the Blacker Arbalest which was a dynamic spigot mortar, not a fixed one like the 2B25. Certainly has its good characteristics. The fact it isn't shoulder fired like the PIAT means it can fire more powerful propellant charges. Thanks for watching!

[@zirkon-jq8tn]

👍

[@johncox2865]

Certainly is light, alright. But, it still requires at least a two-man crew, right? Still has that awkward to carry baseplate. I know the 60mm US mortars of old required three men. Used external cellophane propellant packages too.

[@mattiasdahlstrom2024]

The mortar men I recall were well endowed with long arms, broad backs, protruding eyebrows but not too inclined to read books

[@captainmee3469]

if in world end case senario... this weapon will be a really nice to defence

[@chrisyunge8569]

1:25, The Piat, A bridge too far with Sean Connery, shows the firing of one and David Niven, a Paper Tiger, fires one, albeit hollywood but exciting none the same, 🙂👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@TheArmourersBench]

Absolutely Chris, I've actually got videos looking at those scenes!! Check them out here: kzbin.info/aero/PLt7Io-OQBYSpE7sSQEmujvETUJkK96fXR Thanks for watching!

[@abejal3684]

Malaysian Army call MERTAK for Meriam Katak. famous in elite and special force