Dark Souls 3 Lore: The Identity of the Furtive Pygmy

[@AspelShuyin]

I wouldn't take anything from the Painted World seriously. Not after being told that it's a peaceful place.

[@Yal_Rathol]

to be fair, it was called a peaceful place by priscilla. the most powerful entity in the painted world. a being many were put in to guard and care for. they were peaceable, to her and each other. then a random undead, smelling of death and hungry for souls invaded. so they went on the defensive. generally a bad idea around a player character, but it's not like they knew that.

[@AspelShuyin]

Hey, maybe I was just lonely and wanted a place to think! They attacked me first! They drew first blood, this was a self-defense genocide.

[@Yal_Rathol]

Rory Walker the best defense is a good offense. unless your enemy is an immortal undead with a being from another world driving them to feast on souls for power. but it's not like those are a common occurrence, there's only ever one in existence at a time. unless they go world-hopping.

[@AspelShuyin]

*Is* there only one at a time? I mean, only one Chosen Undead, sure, but it's not like there's only one immortal undead. Everyone in the Undead Burg or Parish and Sen's Fortress is an immortal undead.

[@Yal_Rathol]

Rory Walker only one immortal undead being driven by a being from another world. only one player character. and it's not like the rank-and-file hollows are a danger to each other in game very often. the best you usually get is a darkwraith ripping its way through the hollows or a guy missing his firebomb throw. there's only one player character and they're the one you gotta watch out for.

[@rjboots21]

I dont think that the furtive pygmy is anyone note worthy. In other words he/she is just a random ass hollow or something. That's why the furtive pygmy is "so easily forgotten" according to the intro. Who they are isn't important. It's more so what they did and what they represent. From that prospective, Velka couldn't be the furtive pygmy. Velka is the Goddess of Sin. That's an important ass person that nobody is going to forget. I do somewhat agree with you on your point on Manus. He seems more like the Dark Lord gone wrong than the actual furtive pygmy. Anyone else agree with me? I have always found this topic fun to speculate.

[@Timothy2012]

It all comes down to what "God" or "Goddess" means in these games. We know how the Age of Fire started. We know that Nito, The Witch of Izalith, and Gwyn were all "Godlike." Velka is also considered a "Goddess." But then who the hell is Flame God Flann? What makes him a god? Where did he come from?

[@dasylirionplays]

I agree. I think we have this tendency to assume the characters we meet in the games have done EVERYTHING that has ever happened in the world. Gwynevere married Flann and built Heide's Tower and called in Ornstein, who was also Priscilla's cousin and Sif's father by Seath and who started the Curse of the Undead. It's fun trying to connect every dot to in-game characters, but it strains credulity. Some things are done by people we don't meet in-game, and that's okay. Anonymity is central to the Furtive Pygmy's identity. (Is that a paradox?) I don't think it would come back as a named, specialized god.

[@Windowsprodukt]

Yea. especially on the Manus part. I never really bought the idea of the furtive pygmy being a rampaging beast, since the furtive pygmy has such a discreet presence. It always felt like the dark soul was more like a creeping presence, seeping through all of humanity. I don't oppose the idea to Velka having some kind of connection with the dark soul, possibly being a human herself once, with all the connections to the dark/occult she has, but I think the the pygmy is to not have a specific identity is what makes it so great.

[@jokesontojo]

I agree 100% the furtive pygmy is a nobody but still of extreme importance. The best description is actually the player! The player must gain souls to become powerful and defeat the gods/keepers of the fire to link it. But it is not just "the player" but all players, humanity, in general, is a descendant to the Pygmy. Nobody remembers who linked the fire, besides Gywn.

[@centimanj8916]

Agreed. We now that the Pygmy "Broke" the Dark Soul into Many many pieces and dsipersed it into Huimanity. It makes sense that after that Point he would have been a random Guy/gal again, instead of an rampaging Powerfull Monster/ a Goddes. Him giving up and dispersing his Grand Soul, and therefore his Power is the entire Point behind his character.

[@kaidos123]

I'm no lore master. But didn't the pygmy basically just separate the dark soul into many pieces to create man, gave the rest to the pygmy lords to protect, became hollow because he was all souled out (hehe), then went off and died somewhere? And that's basically it. maybe he didn't have any other agenda, plan or purpose, like the other lords. He remained forgotten and secret. He created man, and did his part. he didn't need to remain a figure head or something to worship. it was in the hands of his creations. maybe he was just silent, and did what he needed to do. just like his descendant, our character(s) who we play. Is there any evidence that Kaathe is being legit and actually doing the pygmy's duties? or he could just be manipulating man for his own agenda.

[@Orthanderis]

Kaathes dialogue implies that the primordial serpents are trying to produce and guide the dark lord, where as Frampt betrayed them. This is supported in the dark lord ending where 6 serpents bow to you. Id say Kaathe has the right idea, but he doesnt understand the dark soul or humanity

[@kevinlestrange3599]

Orthanderis kaathe has always seemed more genuine to me because he doesnt lie and call you a lord to him, he calls you undead warrior, and that he doesnt show up in the linking the fire ending, like frampt does in the opposite, however my theory on the primordial serpent, is that they remind me of the imperfect in ds2, a dragon who isnt fully formed, i believe the interference of the preachers from the ringed city, upon these serpents (who’s statue’s are found everywhere in TRS by the way) which would make sense since they all bow to the dark lord

[@lockskelington314]

well damn, that's pretty good. Humans, for the most part, are content with just living their lives without seeking power or revenge, unless they are pushed to do so. The Pygmy achieved his goal and in doing so let go of the world leaving it to his children. The Dark Soul's power was to replicate indefinitely there is nothing more to it than a Person who wanted children or a family and got what he sought after in the first flame not realizing that it would be a lord soul.

[@kevinlestrange3599]

Moko Arc you know ive heard the love story thing a lot but never the theory of family, thats a really interesting take but it makes a ton of sense

[@lockskelington314]

@Kush Jindal So your saying the Furtive Pygmy is who we play as in Dark Souls 1? Someone seeking to make the world a better place for their children

[@thecryophile4195]

Watching this after the DLC came out and all "We find no sign of the painted world in DS3" Boy howdy, did that change

[@rstocker19]

The Cryophile isn’t it a different painted world from 1 and 3?

[@MarceloVillarrealR]

@@rstocker19 There are a couple of pointers that suggest that it is indeed the same painted world, just in the future

[@sterbensrevenge5846]

Its the same, just repainted, supposedly on top of the 1st painting.

[@sebastianoleksa]

I have found something. There is an official Dark Souls board game (overseed by Bandai Namco). Recently a rulebook was released. In it there is a short description of the story and there is a sentence about the Furtive Pygmy: "It is in this miserable state that the world has now existed for a thousand years and more, always on the brink of the Age of Dark-despite the best efforts of the agents of the fourth Lord, the Furtive Pygmy." Remember, it's official so we can be almost sure it refers to the original story.

[@TheAshenHollow]

+Sebastian Oleksa Hmm, very interesting! Thanks for sharing! =) Do you happen to have a link to the rulebook?

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thank you, kind sir! =)

[@SM-nz9ff]

The BoardGame is NOT official it was a kickstarter. Bandai Namco is a publisher and doesn't have or get anything new from FROMSOFT. Miyazaki nor any of his staff have input to or are working on that board game. It has no Japanese influence or connection whatsoever.

[@essex3777]

@@SM-nz9ff nah i'll take it as canon

[@SM-nz9ff]

@@essex3777 what you do doesn't matter

[@RadebeGish]

What makes you think Kaathe is trustworthy? "Everyone's been lying to you but you can trust me completely. I've definitely not caused the destruction of civilisations. Now go fulfil the destiny of your ancestor you totally awesome undead!"

[@gabrielperez9757]

You made my day

[@orngcreator6115]

The whole point of the first game is to choose between either Kaathe or frampt. Frampt being a beautiful but possibly hurtful lie or kaathe being the cold truth. They may have changed this by the dlc DS1 or the new game but outside of maybe Oolicile, he's never really said anything that we can confirm as a lie.

[@RadebeGish]

I know that in the first game the choice is to link the fire or to abandon it, with both choices being represented by either serpent. However we don't have anything to point to Kaathe being a reliable source, not to mention that he could also be giving you a beautiful lie "You humans are awesome, it's those dickish gods that've been holding you back. You, personally have a destiny to rule over everything, isn't that great?" I'm well aware that Frampt is a manipulative character but there's nothing to suggest that Kaathe isn't either

[@orngcreator6115]

+GishGaming While I can't remember his dialogue by heart you may be right in a sense. I just don't like the idea of assuming everything everyone says is/could be a lie if only to get past all the tiring arguments back and forth on who is and isn't truthful. Also the only place we know of that Kaathe has destroyed by direct involvement is New Londo and possibly Oolicile. And even New Londo ended up being destroyed by the Sealers flooding the place. Anyway had only Dark 1 came out with no sequel then I'd argue that Kaathe lying or not doesn't matter but now that he's returning with a new game then there's definitely room for an argument now.

[@RadebeGish]

New Londo was flooded to stop the spread of the Abyss and at least in part stop the Dark Wraiths, Kaathe's got a moustache-tentacle in both of those pies We have no one else corroborating Kaathe's story, nor any item descriptions, just some toothy serpent who seems to have a hard on for the Abyss

[@TheZorkiel]

Stuttering Kaath, "Dark Lo.. Lord"

[@System10111]

We don't become the dark lord in ds1 We actualy become the dark lolord. Vaati pls confrim

[@thestralner6335]

He said dark lore lord.

[@mikeheiser77]

+Slipstream The ambiguity is real.

[@Rhinoplaysmc]

The dark loliiiiiiinot even gonna finish that comment I'm gone

[@DeepSource909]

I believe the pygmy is the player. It is the lord who has a small flame, but with the power to absorb other souls in order to grow. So easily forgotten, because it starts so small. But the pygmy is actually the chosen undead, forgotten but still waited for to make his impact on the world.

[@penguinlover5555]

obviously solaire is the furtive pygmy, duh.

[@exaltrobin2197]

Definitely he says praise the moon I'm being sarcastic

[@exodusofanomolies7018]

+Exalted Robin No, he praises the paenus of Manus

[@phantomboss133]

Solaire is prolly Gwynn's long lost son. Look at the statue in the center right after the Red Drake on the bridge. All the other statues are of royal blood, with the exception of the statue in the middle, a woman holding a child.

[@phantomboss133]

***** Is it, though? I understand that it is common speculation, but there are enough clues to consider Solaire the lost heir to Gwynn's kingdom, and if you follow his quest line, he joins you in the fight against Gwynn. Couldn't Solair be a secret child that Gwynn had intended to replace "The Nameless King"?

[@phantomboss133]

***** Since when has it been unreasonable for Gods to sleep with humans, or in this case, and undead who has found humanity. All I know is that at the Sunlight Alter in Dark Souls, where the statues of all the royal bloodline (including a broken statue of the Nameless) are placed, one statue in the center has a woman cradling a baby. Things aren't just randomly placed in this game, so it must mean something

[@danielwheels9529]

I still really wanna know more about the portrait room. Nashandra and Gwynevere in the same room = mind blown

[@ikbeckly385]

There's also a smaller version of the painting of ariamas in there

[@danielwheels9529]

too much lore in that one room!!!!

[@Aerowarrier]

There's also a giant portrait of the Iron Throne from DS2, the concept art of Drangleic, and what looks to be the Profaned Capital from before it was destroyed. Just sayin

[@MikayaAkyo]

Well maybe there's a Lore Reason for it. My guess is that they weren't bothered to actually whip up many portraits for DkS3 and just polished up old Content and threw it in and the Room is more of a "Nostalgia" room than meaning anything really

[@danielwheels9529]

Hey Tykari possible but FromSoft are very meticulous about what they put in a game... i really feel this room has some HUGE lore implications. could be playing on the "time is convulted" theme, but i feel we will meet a character who has "overseen" ALL events in dark souls who will lift the lid on alot of things

[@yikes6969]

I think Gwyn was human/pigmy just like us before finding the soul. Same with the witch and Nito. Its why Gwynn was able to still hollow, and other Lords such as the Nameless king. They are human at the core and hold part of the dark soul too since it was given to ALL mankind. All the souls hold immense power and can increase the size of the holders depending on the concentration within them. We arent as large because the dark soul is divided between all human kind, so we hold less concentration of it. You see Ornstein or Smough grow when absorbing the other one's soul, adding onto what they had already gotten from Gwynn. Guys like the silver and black knights are larger than us but not as big as lords because Gwynn obviously isnt going to give each Knight a huge chunk, a portion is divided up between them all resulting in a much minor size change. In the opening scene you see the witch surrounded by her daughters and she appears much larger than them because she is already in possession of the soul and is just then presenting it to her daughters. Quelanna is back to her original size when we see her because she gave up her part of the soul and fled. Sif was so large in DS1 because Artorias probably imparted part of his to him because he wanted his partner to be as strong as possible or did it when giving him the shield as more protection. In DS3 the Abyss Watchers are larger than us but smaller than lords because they took what was given to Sif and divided it up between all them, aka the wolf blood, and is why Sif or his dead body is much smaller in DS3. Havel, and/or his knights, same size as us, stripped of what Gwynn gave him when they locked him up or he never accepted it in the first place due to his distrust in some of the things Gwynn was doing such as allowing Seathe into the fold. TLDR all the races began as human/pigmy but due to how each soul was divided up and created the size disparities, the distinction of "races" was also made even though there really arent different races (at least pertaining to those that found the 4 souls), just different concentrations within those of the varying "factions" based on how the founder gave them out

[@Rayder2341]

"Humanity" in dark souls are pieces of the Dark Soul, spread across all of humanity. So Manus' soul being a lump of humanity means it is a large portion of the dark soul.

[@GrimmWitchands]

But one formed by other tiny pieces. In the escenario in which the furtive pigmey kept a great portion of the dark soul, it would look like a big slice of cake; while manus soul is more like a bunch of little slices together that at one point where cut from a full cake.

[@xdan-]

You didn't convince me that Manus can't be the pigmy, but I'll continue watching to see if Velka fits.

[@benjamincarlile301]

I can't see Velka being the furtive pygmy. The item description for the Book of the Guilty paints Velka as an ally to the gods: "The Goddess of Sin Velka oversees this list of the guilty, who have disrespected the Gods or their covenants, and shall one day face the wrath of the Blades of the Darkmoon." Why would Velka keep the book listing those who have opposed the gods if she was ultimately opposed to them herself?

[@christiancristof491]

More importantly, she is definitely not "easily forgotten".

[@NobleBruv]

If anything Velka is a hades or hella figure that is just simply misunderstood.

[@mohamedbouaziz4617]

Manus is the furtive pygmy (in his human form), Artorias is the son of Manus and Velka (abyss walker). Gwyn sent Artorias to his doom to be killed by his own father, the pendant that turned Manus mad belong to the love of his life, Velka.

[@GentlemanMudkip]

@@mohamedbouaziz4617 The pendant didn't make Manus mad, the sheer amount of humanity and darkness he absorbed did. Plus if I'm right, gwyn didnt send one of his 4 nights to the abyss by himself. Artorias went on his own, it was own idea and own responsibility. Nobody except the chosen undead knew of artorias' true fate. As far as anyone else in the world of dark souls knows, artorias defeated manus and stopped the abyss from spreading.

[@mohamedbouaziz4617]

@@GentlemanMudkip in-game description of the Covenant of Artorias ring says "This ring symbolizes Knight Artorias's covenant with the beasts of the Abyss. It's wearer, like Artorias himself, can traverse the Abyss." it never says that Artorias did wear this ring or needed it , it says that it ll make its wearer be able to walk the abyss like Artorias did, "Artorias the abyss walker" , he was an abyss walker by nature makes all sense

[@matusjansta]

Isn't the Furtive Pigmy supposed to have hidden from the other lords? Being the mother of one's children doesn't seem like much of hiding to me...

[@dune358]

ItDoesn'tReallyMatter hiding in plain sight

[@zettaoverlord7246]

I just want to say that if you look at it this way, Gwyn split his soul apart and gave a shard to seath and the four kings, and his soul only ended up giving30000 souls when you eat it. Manus on the other hand if he is the Furtive Pygmy would have split his soul across the entire human race, of course it would end up as a gentle lump.

[@jacolitethepumpkin765]

Y'know, I actually like this theory. I think the concept of Velka, her reputation, and finally the reputation of the Pygmy line up quite nicely

[@kibikiwi175]

Going off DS1 alone, it's extremely heavily implied that Manus is the Furtive Pygmy. Both characters are heavily tied to the Dark Soul/s (Humanity) and Kaathe. And all the main bosses of the main game have Lord Souls (1. Nito, 2. Witch of Izalith, 3. Seath and Four Kings have Gwyn's), it only makes sense for the DLC to have the fourth and final Lord Soul (the Dark Soul) to complete the quartet.

[@TheZorkiel]

Here, have some lore. Ever given a thought to how Yorshka finds it perfectly normal that a "Dragon or perhaps a Crow" stands before her, fully human (or hollow) in shape and form, so much so that it is her first guess at what you might be if you say you can fly. Considering she is quite sheltered and "knows little of this world", it is reasonable to conclude that this accurately describes human formed creatures she has previously encountered. Taking the shocked and humbled reaction she gives when you state you can not fly into consideration, it is reasonable to conclude possessing the ability to fly is the normal state. Also, note how climbing and less fantastical alternatives are not even given mentioned, magic or other fantastical methods are not either for that mater. Only what can be assumed to be a transformation ( or possessing the abilities / qualities of) into one of those two specific creatures. So we can conclude that Yorshka knows and has met ( or at the very least knows of ) at least one of each of the following: 1. A humanoid that for all intents looks human but can transform into a flying dragon. 2. A humanoid that for all intents looks human but can transform into a flying crow. As for the identity these. We know of several dragon/humanoid shape-shifters in the "Path of the Dragon", but none of these can fly. There is speculations about in regards to that perhaps the current "King of the Storm" is not the original "Stormdrake" spoken of in the item descriptions but a transformed Ornstein. You've even done a video on this topic. Only creature we know of that could possibly fit the description of being human/humanoid, and possibly being a shape-shifter is Velka.

[@TheZorkiel]

Have a bit more, this is speculatory though. The Gods are not immune to hollowing. This as demonstrated by visage of the "Nameless King". Assuming hollowing is not a byproduct of fire-linking. If you ever thought Gwyn's unflinching motivation and determination to submit to eternal torment and madness was odd, then this would certainly make his motivations that much clearer. Not only is his lordship and rule coming to an end, he and all his kin are forcefully made to submit and their forms twisted, this happening as if by a force of nature. Certainly enough to make anyone desperate.

[@joeylopez2445]

Velka?

[@TheZorkiel]

Joey Lopez It's a bit speculatory yes, Velka is the the only deity strongly linked with crows. Noteworthy is the shear amount there of, Velka's pardoners, all the crow/human hybrids (crow demon DS1 - 2 and Corvian DS3 ), several armour designs drawing on crow or bird-like features all linked with Velka. There's also major speculation that the crow in DS1 is a servant of Velka, Vaati did a video on it way back if you search for it. All the crow/human hybrids however do not show signs of being actively able to go from one form to the other. They do not seem able to fly properly either. Those left then that we know of are either the giant crow in DS1 or Velka herself, or those two are one and the same. It is also plausible that it is in reference to a yet unknown character, even so Velka is likely closely related. Hers is pretty much the only grouping associated with crows. ps. Also some more linking Velka directly oversaw "the book of the guilty" (DS1) as stated in its description. The book is a list of those guilty of sinning against the gods, used by the dark moon blades to direct their blades. In DS3 we no longer have a "book of the guilty", the Dark Moon Blades are led and directed by Yorshka instead. Do some searching on Velka and crow, you'll find lots more and in greater detail than youtube comments permits.

[@vopop30]

There is a sole Corvian hanging around a grave behind the Church of Yorshka (the church is in fact the tower in which she is being held prisoner). It's the only enemy of that type in the whole level, the last time you encounter one is in the Road of Sacrifices, and the next time you see them is in Lothric Castle. I always thought it was out of place, but with Yorshka's line implying meeting a crow, made it all make a lot more sense. Maybe that Corvian is providing her sustenance? Dragons (as the gods knew them) are supposed to have long been extinct. The only dragon(-like) being I think she could have meet is Oceiros.

[@paunz666]

Yorshka is not a sister of Gwyndolin she is his niece.

[@harizotoh7]

02:02 Wrong. The Furtive Pygmy was a descriptive name, and he was literally just a human. He had no powers and was tiny. The original human didn't matter but it's just because he became the race of humans. The difference is the Lords had great power but could only slowly multiple, by dividing their Lord Souls finite power. Humans in contrast could multiple their dark souls infinitely.

[@eddibonoit]

how can you kill priscila dont you have a souls? :V

[@set9034]

Yep and we want more so she was the next option.

[@sirsunman7826]

im a undead so yeah i don't thats why i kill her every time plus she says this "this place is peacfull its inhabitens kind"

[@onewontdo]

This lore speculation was pretty spot on. After the release of DLC, it was confirmed throughout Ariamis that the painted world is a sanctuary for the forlorn.

[@centimanj8916]

Very good Points in this Theory. I just have one Headscratcher: If Velka is the Pygmy she is the entity of the Dark, as oposed to Gwyn and co. beeing the Gods of Fire, right? The Pardoner in Dark Souls 1 (forgot his name) is a Priest of Velka, as evidenced by the Items of him we find in the Painted World. If you are of the Way of White (Gwyns Religion) he will Greet you as a friend, if you arent he will not. So why does a Priest of the Dark (so to speak) specificaly call an adherent of Fire a Friend? I think this points more or less towards Velka beeing at least loosly on good terms with Gwyn and his Way of White, something we know the Pygmy was not. I dont want to bore Holes into your Theories, its really solid, it was just something that crossed my Mind.

[@TheAshenHollow]

He actually greets you as friend if you are a part of any covenant, not just the Way of White. We also don't really know anything about the acquaintances and friendships the Furtive Pygmy harbored. So we cannot say we know that the Furtive Pygmy wasn't on good terms with the Gods. As I've said before I think that Velka and/or the Furtive Pygmy, are very much for the natural flow of things, and before the linking of the flame it could have been possible everyone was a "good terms" so to say. We also know that Velka, whatever you want to believe her role to be, is very heavily invested in the Sable Church of Londor, which is set to bring about the Age of Dark, thus setting the world back on it's natural cycle.

[@centimanj8916]

The Ashen Hollow Ok, i didnt knew that any Covenant would bring that response, so my Point is moot. However, as you sayed yourself, the Linking of the Fire DID happen, and it was done because Gwyn feared the Age of Dark. And knowing that the Pygmy/Velka where basically the "God" of the Dark i just cant conceive of them beeing on good terms with Gwyn and co.. About Velka beeing involved in the Sable Church, and therefore "Pro-Dark", i dont doubt that. However, since the Linking of the fire is widely believed to be the First Sin, she could just be Pro-Dark from her Position as Godess of sin, as in righting the first sin (and therefore the continuation of the Age of Fire), and not because shes inherently Pro-Dark. However i think your theory about the Pygmys Identity makes just as much sense as him beeing Manus, both Theorys have some things speaking for and against them. Thanks for the response, really enjoyed this Video

[@dddmemaybe]

Even after like 4 years I still love these lore videos lol

[@BerserkerJess]

i want the painted world to return.

[@TheAshenHollow]

+Soul of Cinder That would be amazing! =)

[@thestralner6335]

It could be part of the Sable church of londor DLC, with her connection to the painted world.

[@BerserkerJess]

+Slipstream yeah i was thinking that

[@TheDandiMan]

Even though it was an annoying area, I did like the fact that it was the only one with different weather.

[@XIII_Vanitas]

My theory is that the Painted World became Irithyll of the Boreal Valley. So, we already got it.

[@diamondpyro8687]

No one: Absolutely No One: AshenHollow's Theories: VELKA

[@dvdmenyu]

Hey Ashen, do you want this lump of gold? "A lump? Pffft, piss off fam." ...It's an extraordinary lump. "I SAID PFFFT!"

[@spiralcraft8957]

Knowing nothing about darksouls and playing it for the first time i felt like the devs where hinting that the player was the forgotten pygmy.

[@Sterneneisen]

IMO you dismissed Manus too quickly. His soul might say "his humanity", but you must'n forget, that the Dark Soul might just be split up completely amongst all humans, which leaves Manus/Possible-Pygmy with his own share of the Dark Soul. It might have been a bigger share, considering his corruption/going wild is much more significant in comparison to other corrupted/abyssal beings. He might just have been a human going apeshit. What if the pygmy is just a faceless being, because the Dark Soul is meant to be spread not kept, because a single holder would just be hunted down by the gods? I think, it doesn't really matter who the furtive pygmy actually is or was, as the humans in the games are never ever presented by one powerful being, often not being too powerful themselves (if you dismiss your Velka theory), but more being a race that is inheritently powerful when aquiring humanity and souls, thus one completely unknown suddenly becomes the Dark Lord. This is also represented in the nameless/faceless Chosen Undead, Next Monarch or Chosen Ash as the playables, or in a furtive pygmy as the Ancestor, in comparison to the Deities Gwyn, Gwynevere, the First Born or even Nito and the Witch which represent their unique Lord Souls. Nonetheless Velka is persecuting the Gods for the First Sin which probably is the act of linking the First Flame. But she might also just use everyone for her own goals: The Painting Guardians protect her (maybe not?) world, her weapons/set, the Ember, Priscilla and the Life Hunt abilities. While she probably schemed against the Gods, it doesn't necessarily make her human or the leader of the humans, as she might also have been at Anor Londo at some point, maybe even being Gwyn's wife. I personally believe, she just took the opportunity to manipulate humans (and other beings) to bring about her own justice. I don't really see her being the furtive pygmy. While "ancestor" doesn't necessarily refers to a male, there would somewhere be a more direct hint at the pygmy being a male or female if it really mattered. Manus probably was just a powerful human, who went mad when collecting humanity and souls. Velka probably was part of the Pantheon until the Gods went for prolonging the Age of Fire. And Kaathe just wants to bring the Age of Dark, maybe because the Cycle will repeat, starting with an Age of Ancients Dragons who are simply matured serpents. They all have their own goals and the humans are simply pawns in their game of thro... ehem, ages ;)

[@jonathancapps1103]

Sterneneisen I never considered that thee Age of Ancients might be a part of the cycle. Interesting. Also, I was thinking that it might make a sense of balance for the furtive pygmy to be female. Then, (Nito *is* male, right? Now I'm wondering...) there would be two male and two female lordsoul bearers.

[@アドリアン-d3o]

Nice post!

[@MrAyeSir]

The more I think about it, the more I start to believe that the pygmy never was one individual, but humanity as a whole. Maybe the Dark Soul never was ONE Lord Soul, but something else entirely. It certainly seems to work differently than Lord Souls. If you listen to the DS1 intro, it says that with fire, Light and Dark also came into existence. Perhaps the Lord Souls, or Souls in general, have something to do with that Light. The Dark Soul being the polar opposite of the Lord Souls would make a lot of sense. And because of the Ringed City DLC, we know that hollowing is likely a side effect of the cursed mark that a terrified Gwyn placed on the Undead.

[@dasylirionplays]

Thanks for the video and the interesting theory! I love the picture of Velka as a protector of the cast-offs and the freaks. I think of her as a sort of patron for humanity (sinners that we are), subtly helping them and undermining the gods. Something you mentioned actually made a connection with a question I've had for a long time - why was the Peculiar Doll in the Chosen Undead's cell at the Asylum? The fact that it's a CROW that takes us to Lordran seems very significant, and a strong suggestion of Velka's influence. It makes total sense, then, that Velka would use that same influence to put the doll in a place associated with the Chosen Undead. After all, what does the doll do? Permit entrance to a place where we can meet a creature in possession of a power that terrifies the gods. I have trouble with linking Velka to the Pygmy, though. In particular, I think a few of the significant word connections are pretty tenuous. The usage of "rogue" in the Vow of Silence description almost certainly refers to a deviation from the status quo (as in "going rogue"), rather than furtive criminal action. (If they wanted to describe Velka as guilty person, they'd have used "rogue" as a noun, not an adjective). Her support for humanity would certainly be enough to make her a rogue deity. Also, "forsaken" isn't the same as "forgotten." Something that's forsaken is abandoned on purpose, like Anor Londo. You don't have to forget something to forsake it. And this is just a personal thing, but I don't really want the Pygmy to still be around. Anonymity is in the nature of unformed humanity - of the Pygmy's Dark Soul. But he broke it up and left it to humans to shape with souls. He let it become something that he couldn't make himself. After that, his job was done and he could go to his rest.

[@ryankrenisky8252]

I like the Claymore influence in your Manus Theory.

[@JD-jl4yy]

The pygmy split his soul to create humanity, so it makes sense that Manus only has a lump.

[@dahv06]

Thanks for the video. These comments are very interesting too! This ongoing discussion really makes one thing clear: the furtive pygmy did a good job.

[@aidankeogh9994]

Feeling sick, so I'm binging Dark Souls lore videos till I get better.

[@Skwish6952]

Forsaken means abandoned not forgotten.

[@80angelcleff]

Hmm, it may not be much but heres my humble opinion, i remember that when i was studying graphic design i had a class in semiotics, and as you may know or not, semiotic is the study of signs, symbols and their interpretations. I've been i thinking that the furtive pymgpy is more of a semiotic symbol representing the human race as we know it today, along with other animals we are the more complex, yet the most evil being on this planet, we are greedy, arrogant, selfish and just thinking in our self, stepping on other species just because we feel superior and even attack our own species by creating wars, because of difference ideologies, for example religions. Thats (in my opinion)what the age of dark ,the age of man is all about, an age without superior beings ruling over us and keeping the illusion of the perfect world for us, i think that by accepting the dark is allowing the world bloom as we know it today (kind of fucked up, buts thats subjetive), we humans the rulers and those superior beings just memories of the past, thats why i think the dark pine resin dropped from hollow humans is... well dark, is the mere representation of a human being, maybe thats what Mr. Miyazaki tried to interpret, a parody of we humans and our nature in this world. But again thats just me ^^

[@rockandrollbit]

Dude, a friend of mine told me of your channel. I'm impressed with your analysis of this vid and I am looking forward to more videos

[@jokesontojo]

I wish from software would release a lore book or something that would verify all these claims. I love all your videos dude, but these are all theories none the less. I always figured the Furtive Pygmy was just someone who resided in humanity, an individual, small, unnoticeable among the most powerful, a balance of power of sorts that humanity when the lords do not uphold their promise to link the fire every cycle. A successor of the Furtive Pygmy from what my best guess is always the player, linking the fire. You are always downplayed by NPCs while talking to them, That you are just another poor hollow, not destined and will never achieve greatness doomed like the rest. This is also a classic Eastern/Japanese story telling. heroes are not born, but forged and grow slowly into said greatness. The hero always starts small, forgettable like the Furtive Pygmy is described in said name. Even though Gywn linked the fire. It was up to a descendent of the Pygmy to link the fire again so the cycle will continue when all else fails. Because the Pygmy is humanity in general, anyone who is 'human' is the Pygmy. Even if Velka is the definitive Furtive Pygmy she gave birth to humanity, that still implies all of humanity is a descendent. lel that is just my shit OP tho from playing the games, I hate its vagueness..

[@TheAshenHollow]

That's just the way of Dark Souls though, they will rarely confirm things for us, and intentionally keep the story vague. Because it is supposed to be about these theories we conjure up to fill in all the blanks. Certainties are great, but this is what makes Dark Souls so unique and awesome! =)

[@jokesontojo]

I just hate being left with doubt. Visually I can see what happened and its no stretch to whatever anyone comes up with. And yea I agree :)

[@Viech54]

I actually agree that, with DS3 being the last Dark Souls (at least for now), we should get more answers, and I'm hoping for some of them in both DLCs. Don't get me wrong, I like listening to other theories, coming up with my own and discussing them and I don't think the DLCs should do nothing more than answer our questions, but definite answers here and there would be nice at this point.

[@chocolatenova]

The video was good but I like the way you put it. I was breaking down the words furtive and Pygmy trying to make sense of everything. Thinking “small secret” in other words Pygmy - smaller version coming from gods, still a god thorough as explained in video and furtive for secret. However, when the serpent says “descended” (and I don’t mean to take it literal but that’s all I can work with) I’m not thinking of a god/dess. I’m thinking a human (the Pygmy) smart enough to “hide” (there’s your furtive) the dark amber/flame or whatever.

[@DarkangelJSB]

OH MAN that audio clip around 19:00 sounded like it was basically connected everything you said before that and made it make sense to me i was like WOW im pretty sure your spot on with this theory now.

[@wanderingbufoon]

pygmy =/= man. pygmies-> man because of humanity, which is fragmented dark soul. Father of the Abyss, could mean first of the dark "lord". Kaathe's mission is to make a dark lord but failed. why? because he wishes to make the dark soul whole again. "make londor whole again" is said at the end of DS3 can mean many things such as piece together the dark soul. or simply make the 4 lord souls into 1, which was the original goal from DS1. my take is that the furtive pygmy is a hollow, of course all of the creatures then were hollows, that was meant to be the player. it would sort of give it a cycle vibe to it. "chosen undead" etc... how you always come back to go on a mission to revive/kill the fire. so to look at it this way, your first run through in life is being the furtive pygmy then you became the chosen undead, DS1, then so on and so forth till DS3, unkindled. a bit far fetched but its kind of a recurring theme in DS series. im not saying necessarily that it is the same person/entity. but im saying that that timeline couldve been a game in which solely depended on you the player and what you did. except you had no choice but to split your lord soul and turn it into humanity.

[@noelbuitrago557]

You, sir, blew my mind. Great storytelling and amazing insight, I love your take on Velka. Thank you.

[@TheAshenHollow]

[@gabrielperez9757]

Here I was saying that this is not true, Manus is but then after watching the video somehow you convince me well done :-0

[@EntheogenShaman]

Between you and Vaati I feel like I have the lore almost completely figured out.

[@tobequitefranco]

It's certainly an interesting theroy! One I've been tossing around the more I look into Velka, purging stones, and bite rings is that Velka may not exist at all but may instead represent humanity. I think that's why the creation of bite rings are forbidden and why the other gods fear "velka". We know they also fear humanity and the dark age, and that purging stones are bits of human who are used to absorb or displace curses. I think Velka statues are made up of purging stones, ie human corpses, created by a church body somewhere, and that the idea of a goddess who doles out punishment is their invention, something to help them control the undead. I thought of this initially because of Velka's title as the goddess of sin and how the concept of sin in many religious organizations is used to keep people from doing bad deeds. why isn't Velka the goddess of justice or punishment? The title instead makes her sound like a sinner. This is part of a larger discussion of faith, lies, and religion in the world of dark souls. So tldr; I think Velka is a lie, but the way people feel about her is real in Dark Souls.

[@mitchl6896]

Another brilliant vid dude, keep it up!

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thanks kindly sir! =)

[@mugiwarapuff2787]

just subbed I've only watched 5 of your bids (in full btw) and you have me hooked keep it up oh great sir!!!

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thank you new friend! =)

[@mugiwarapuff2787]

The Ashen Hollow I particularly loved your ties between the nameless king Havel and orenstein

[@sunbrojoe7610]

you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and it was really well put together. Keep up the great content my friend!

[@DraganDE]

The last clip of the video got me thinking about the one topic again. What does the Knight of Berenike do in the Painted World? Is he there to protect Priscilla or is he just one of the lost souls that seeked asylum in the Painted World. Nevertheless he shows that Tarkus was not the only one that made it through Sens like the Crestfallen Merchant implies but he and the Darkmoon Blade Berenike soldier must also have made it through. Do you have any clue about him?

[@nicksteeves601]

Speaking of which, as far as "sin" references in The Painted World, you can find Oswald's Set there, another pardoner who deals with sin. Since Velka is seemingly anti-darkmoon (cut content with Velka covenant hunting down darkmoon covenanters) it would make sense, potentially, that the darkmoon covenant is an offshoot of Velka inspired pardoners, another case of godly manipulation of Velka's people and groups for anti-dark purposes. Oswald of Carim maybe as a remainder of this group of Velka, the Goddess of Sin and her "pardoners". If this a realm under the protection of Velka, it makes sense for Oswald to end up here if he is the last of her pardoners to not be turned into Darkmoon followers.

[@Kriskazam]

After the Ringed City, I’m convinced Velka is a great misrepresentation of Filianore.

[@jvillain9946]

What about the occult club in havel's chest?

[@georgerose1252]

It's been proposed that he was going to attempt to betray Anor Londo and kill a god with it, leading to his imprisonment in the tower, which makes sense since there's no reason he'd have a weapon that specialized in killing the divine if he was loyal.

[@Mike6b3]

Hey Jake, loved the video and I'm convinced! Going with the trend that I seem to see with a few others here: Velka being the furtive Pigmy seems to make the chaos witch theory less relevant, none the less, I really like that theory and you made some excellent points in there. Back to the opening cinematic of DS1 where the narrator says how the pigmy is so easily forgotten, how ironic would it be that all have forgotten about the Pygmy and their identity while she was actually prominent and in your face through the entire series, seems fitting in the dark souls universe! Also I really like how you compared the abyss to a force of nature, I completely agree. An unrelenting force, possible to manipulate and contain (like the abyss watchers did) but never fully control. Great job!

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thank you! I know what you mean, this theory conflicts with some of my other theories! But, don't count the Chaos Witches out just yet, I'm sniffing around something right now with Chaos and the Dark. Why else do Chaos Weapons scale with your humanity counter? =O

[@Mike6b3]

+The Ashen Hollow if you got the proof I'm ready to listen haha! Thanks for the reply! Keep up the good work man

[@kunnykuni]

That's such a big revelation ! I love that theory a lot ! Thank you ! Velka is by far my favorite dark souls god and I really want to meet her in the DLC. Do you think she is Gwyn's wife btw ? And Priscilla's mother ? Which would explain why Gwyndolyn and Yorshka are (step)siblings. Here is my theory regarding Velka. Her crow people are the angels that visited Gertrude. There are some "clues" to it.

[@gioc2512]

The feathers are white though indicating angels

[@kunnykuni]

Gio C Who said that all angels have white feathers ? There are 2 religions that are considered a heresy in Lothric ! the angelic faith and the corvian's faith ! So what do they have in common ? 1) Both are a heresy according to the 3 pillars. 2) Both woship winged beings that are benevolent and kind. 3) Both have a direct link with sin/forgiveness. Corvians because of Velka. Angels because forgiveness is a very christian concept. 4) Both are related to a painting which is guarded. 5) Gertrude became blind after meeting the angels. The firekeeper go blind after going to the abyss. Arguably, it could be because the angels are blindingly bright. I am not saying it's fact but there are some clues to it.

[@gioc2512]

+kunnykuni Never said all angels have white feathers but white feathers have never symbolized anything else in dark souls

[@kunnykuni]

Gio C Well my theory is that angels = crow people. But it's just a theory.

[@Jewbear1884]

I doubt Velka would be Gwyn's wife, if she's the Furtive Pygmy then she wouldn't really want to be either allied with the guy who directly opposes her nature or in the limelight. Crows are black, the angels of lothric all have/had white feathers, and the angels wanted to keep linking the flame rather than ending it, which would go against them being creatures of dark if they were allied with Velka/Furtive Pygmy.

[@wesley5729]

But the furtive Pygmy has been forgotten. The furtive Pygmy probably has no identity

[@CheeseKransky12]

You deserve more views.

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thank you! =D

[@DarkangelJSB]

You've convinced me man i wasnt really seeing or understanding clearly intill towards the end then i got a couple of moments like WOW that fits perfectly in my head i believe this is all canon if you wanted to know my opinion the creators were hiding this one really well

[@dylanvickers7953]

Ashen Hollow Video: X "Identity of" Video: X Velka.....: X ...every time man...every time..

[@alfred0621]

I'm surprised I've only found your channel now, being the Souls lore fan I am. This is some quality content.

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thank you, friend! =)

[@Lord_Deimos]

Mind=blown

[@TheAce5399]

This is one of the first theory videos to actually look into dialog relating to the Furtive Pygmy. And I must say that I have to agree with your points, everything fits all too well when looking at the lore as a whole. Nice job.

[@TheAshenHollow]

[@alphabison7523]

the furtive pygmy is supposed to be in all men, first released from manus when you kill him in the past.

[@Timothy2012]

Humans were around long before we killed Manus in the past. Nothing states that he is a source of humanity. It only states that he had a lot of it and started corrupting shit. He's the Father of the Abyss, not Father of Humanity. If you can find something that proves humans are born from the abyss then that might make sense. But nothing alludes to that.

[@RedEyesSg]

Furtive Pygmy is called, in item description (which states truth - as opposed to lies sometimes found from dialogue with NPCs) "Primordial Man", compared to the "Primeval Serpents". The pygmy is man's ancestor, and the Dark Soul (the final lord soul) was split into the Humanity items found in DS1.

[@thehungrylittlenihilist]

+Scarletta Item descriptions aren't necessarily truthful. Case in point, the black leather item descriptions in DS3 describe their owner (Patches) as an honest and upstanding fellow, whereas he is still a murderer and thief.

[@CheeseOfMasters]

That´s a joke, duhh. Item descriptions are the only source of information to go on in a Souls game.

[@RedEyesSg]

I also consider (Trusty) Patch's item descriptions as sarcasm

[@danielwheels9529]

Amazing video. Puts everything in perspective!!! Great work, and very enjoyable

[@wilporter2135]

Dude you need to forget about velka, you use her to fit every theory...

[@SquareInsider]

Easily the best Souls theory crafter on KZbin today. It's that simple. You are #1 in accuracy, actually referencing the soul material, and your track record in being right. No one else is close, and "Vaati" or whatever the hell his bizarre name is, just cannot compete. I will support you. I will even start doing videos with you and we (my husband and I, both huge fans since Demon's Souls) promise to contribute extreme quality, so thanks for the offer. Right now I am concentrating on the lore for FFXV, but I will put that on hold to literally make sure you receive the exposure you deserve. You really are the best since EpicNameBro, and quite honestly, superior.

[@TheAshenHollow]

+MercilessV Thank you so much for the kind words, they mean so much! Yeah that sounds super awesome! Sorry for the late reply, I'm in the last few days of my vacation, lol. I'm easier to contact if you want to reach me through there: [e-mail] =D

[@TheProphet49]

Manus cannot be the pygmy, he is or was a human. Humans did not exist at the time the first flame was found. So whoever the Furtive pygmy is, it must be a giant or "lord" like the gods or whatever race the silver knights are. Manus is just a very ancient human, one of the first most likely. The dark was strong in him because it had not yet been split between an overly large group of humans. If the Pygmy created mankind, it could even be All father Lloyd.

[@jamesrucker6124]

wow you guys are brilliant. It also reminds me, in Ringed City we find Velka's corpse and extrememly nearby, like just around the corner we find the Purging Monument aka "Monument of the absolution of the curse".The Purging Monument reverses Hollowing too just like that statue in the undead settlement you mentioned. Absolution is the formal release of guilt, obligation or punishment which matches Furtive definition - attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of guilt. Velka is the furtive pygmy.

[@nickdimos1]

too bad its gael :/ lul

[@salt3087]

My theory is that whomever you are in each game is the Furtive Pygmy. The original pygmy split the dark soul and created the first humans from it. It stands to reason that maybe the original pygmy was "forgotten" because he split the soul so much that he was almost indistinguishable from any other human/ hollow. Over the course of the games the original dark soul regained power in the chosen undead. However the chosen is tricked by Kaathe into linking the flame dispersing the dark soul again, and so on and so forth. In each game the chosen undead is the furtive pygmy, and as you gain more power and get stronger you become closer to becoming the lord of dark.

[@johngascey2970]

Wow, you are so wrong on this it's almost physically painful.

[@TheAshenHollow]

Funny you would say that exactly, while at the same time being painful stupid yourself. ;)

[@LaFlammeAzure]

Well you may not agree on any of the theory. Some points are very shaky, but others do make a lot of sense. In the end I'm pretty certain at least some of the connection noted here are relevent.

[@DarkMustard1337]

Souls lore if not varified by Miyazaki himself is always iffy, be nice you savage fuckhead

[@Crum5h0t]

Please tell us how he is so wrong, since you seem to know so much, Captain Autismo.

[@ColdJoeGaming]

Time to refresh my memory and fill it with info about the furtive pygmy for this new DLC

[@Kriskazam]

Dark is called occult in the first game because Dark is still taboo during that period, being so close to the first age of fire and all

[@ChanMan257]

Broke my phone screen this morning. This almost makes up for it

[@enryuxzero]

i had so much fun working on this theory with you

[@TheAshenHollow]

[@mordor-focker]

Good video and good solid theories. I never imagined the painting guardians as protectors before. Also enjoyed your thoughts on Frampt and Kaathe never really thought about why Kaathe was initially so difficult to find, your ideas make a lot of sense.Keep up the good work

[@a10bam420]

brovo sir! another thought provoking video.

[@coreyrachar9694]

You know I wasn't totally sold on the idea of velka being the pygmy, but some things do seem to make sense if it were the case. One thing that stands out to me is the fact that velka is virtually never brought up in ds3 outside that one statue (that I can think of) and it brings to mind that one phrase '...so easily forgotten.' My whole time playing ds3 I was waiting for the 'big velka reveal' and it never came T.T.

[@thzmaniac377]

Great lore video. I watched a lot of lore videos, but somehow felt that something is missing. Now with your story about Velka it all kinda came together for me, so thx!

[@thomasvaughan6280]

Loved this theory!!! it kinda made me think how dusk of oolacile fit into this. she is trapped inside manus and chamelon drops off of yuria's goon, which is sold by dusk in the first game, and priscilla uses hidden body also sold by dusk.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

Ashen Hollow: Velka is literally everyone!

[@coldmoon7906]

Wow love this stuff first video I've watched of you and it feels so nicely done like a documentary to dark souls

[@edch7516]

gosh this channel is awesome

[@balabaladingding9394]

this completely makes sense to me, thank you

[@TheAshenHollow]

+BALABALA DINGDING

[@nickquesenberry4675]

Before I watched this video, I thought Manus was the Pygmy. Now... not so much, haha. You really took your time and provided compelling evidence to back this one up, Jake. Now, Velka/Witch of Izalith is my frontrunner to be the Pygmy. Well done.

[@arisniro3167]

Amazing-- fantastic video. Very thorough. Beautiful~ I can't WAIT to see Velka and find out how much of this is true!

[@juliettemoss5048]

wonderfully articulated. it makes more sense than Manus

[@Paul_McSeol]

Always thought it was the Immortal Patches,

[@TextToSpeechYoda]

You know, whether or not I agree with your theories I've loved that you're coming at what seem to be the larger "widely held" opinions about the storyline, and bringing some really thought-provoking (at the least) evidence to back it up. Unsure if it's been mentioned, but Alsanna states her 'father' was once a human, which could lend credence to him not having been the Pygmy (hypothetically, a member of the gods' species and not a human).

[@Gaereth]

An entertaining video and an interesting proposal, thank you for uploading these videos and I hope you continue in the future, as I'm a fan of what you do here. I would point out that the principle fact we have of the Pygmy is, as you mentioned, "So easily forgotten." I do not believe we can consider Velka to be in any real way 'forgotten' at the time of the Chosen Undead's exodus from the Asylum, not the least of which is a fairly strong church in Carim. I agree wholeheartedly that Velka is intrinsically linked to humanity, perhaps even the source of it by proxy, but by no means should we conclude that she is the one who was "forgotten" so much as as she is acting out of "wrath", "vengeance" and "retribution" for her forgotten Pygmy, so easily replaced by the 'derivative' Allfather Lloyd. What better kindling for the First Flame than the Dark Lord, an example of one 'replete with humanity'? I believe Yuria said it best: "For What Lord Taketh No Spouse?" I think it far more likely that Velka is a vengeful associate or ally of the Pygmy who was "so easily forgotten". When we find Gwyn in the kiln, he stands beside a coiled sword embedded within undead ashes, as with all other 'bonefires', yet that Undead Ash must predate the outbreak of undeath seen in Baldur or Astora. With Kaathe's obvious disappointment in the 'Dark Lords' prior, stating that "they failed him" and "saw not the truth", implies a previous Dark Lord who did not desire the Dark Age that Kaathe sought and was willing to fade into obscurity rather than end the peace his 'descendants' now enjoyed to bring an age of fresh strife. The Pygmy would have been present during the earliest, darkest days in order to retrieve his scrap of a Lord soul and nurture it, and perhaps the Pygmy gazed upon the flame humanity lived under in peace and thought that it was better for humanity to hold on to their 'rapport' with the flame. Final note: Our ceremony to become a Lord of Hollows demonstrates the union of Dark to achieve the usurpation of the flame, thus giving us fair reason to suspect allegorical precedent of a Dark Lord being espoused. Thanks again for the upload, and I hope to see more from you.

[@zombierobot186]

This video is super niche and it will never get a billion views strictly on the nature of its content, however, the production was top notch, as was its content and the research necessary, well done sir, praise the sun bro, you got gud . . . YOU GOT GUD.

[@brianseiler9750]

Okay. So. You've got some problems here. To start - and this is a problem for most people, so don't feel bad - you're reading an awful lot into the literal meaning of words in a translation. That dramatically elevates the chance that you're wrong. Setting that aside, you've got the wrong definition of "rogue" here. You're looking at a specific definition of the word as a noun, but that's not how it's being used in the phrase "rogue deity." Here it's being used as an adjective, describing the character of the deity - she is a rogue deity, meaning outlaw or outside of an accepted orthodoxy. It does not mean that her character class was thief. Regardless of whether it's a prison or a safe haven, Velka clearly and demonstrably DID NOT CREATE the Painted World of Ariamis. Ariamis did. You're making a considerable assumption here that, again, a lot of other people have made, but needs to be addressed. You assume that whatever alternative orthodoxy it is that Velka defends (you cannot have sin without orthodoxy, by definition) is based upon some sort of primacy of nature over the artifice of the gods. We don't really know that. Probably most important to note, however, is the fact that you're arguing against Occam's Razor. Manus as the pygmy is the obvious conclusion from a number of angles. He shows up in the same game where we kill all three of the other holders of the great souls and the connection between Kaathe's language and his origins seem pretty concrete. After all, why would the denizens of Oolacile have bothered to dig up such a creature (because they did - another speculation that you're taking as fact is the notion that the Abyss is somehow a natural response to the state of the world, which we definitely have some indication is not the case - specifically, the fact that the citizens of Oolacile are known to have tortured Manus to madness, which would tend to imply that the Abyss wasn't a thing until they goaded it into existence) if he wasn't extremely significant? The indication that Manus is supposed to be the Pygmy is fairly obvious, while your conjecture is...less so, which means that you're suggesting that the writers in this franchise were trying to deliberately mislead people into believing something other than what they considered to be canonical truth for their fictional universe. Why? What possible purpose would they find in obscuring something that, on the whole, really isn't even that important to the story anyway? So yeah - not the worst argument ever, but there's some obvious ground that you need to shore up here and...I mean, this isn't the hill that I would choose to die on, since you're not arguing from an identifiable discrepancy in evidence (i.e. here is a thing that is not explained by the commonly accepted theory), which is always a weaker position to start from in the first place.

[@isaiahmccauley1234]

It's surprising that nobody's replied to this, or that this isn't even the top comment.

[@Takian38]

One month later, this comment section is probably already dead, but anyway... You got a point here : Dark souls 1 probably features all four lords, but one must remember that the DLC was not intended in the first place as it was actually a surprise hit. So I think that regarding the identity of the furtive pygmy, we should consider forgetting about Artorias of the abyss. Considering that the furtive pygmy is present in the vanilla game, would mean to me that it could be Velka. Yet it seems strange as Velka is nothing close to be "so easily forgotten"

[@TheAshenHollow]

I'm just now seeing this comment, thanks to the comment by Takian. I can see where you are coming from with your arguments, but allow me to provide a few counter points. We don't fight all the Lords in the first game. Like Takian pointed out, the DLC wasn't intended. So I think that is a moot point for Manus as the pygmy, as well as according to the Lord Soul description for the Witch of Izalith's soul, I don't believe the Bed of Chaos to be her, but again that's my speculation on the matter. You go on to say "The indication that Manus is supposed to be the Pygmy is fairly obvious, while your conjecture is...less so, which means that you're suggesting that the writers in this franchise were trying to deliberately mislead people into believing something other than what they considered to be canonical truth for their fictional universe. Why?" But. . . Do you even Solaire bro? ;)

[@Thebestplacetobe619]

@@TheAshenHollowbro nver responded guess he didn’t know shit

[@frankrizzo7713]

The abyss is the shadow that the age of fire cast

[@Venoxisguides]

whoa, this is great, i had such a revelation, this has rocked my interpretation of Velka and the painted world, subbed

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thanks kindly friend! =)

[@bloodevolent]

I was certain the mystery of the furtive pygmy was solved for years, but you have me thinking otherwise; and I like this theory. I really like it.

[@cameronrhyne7826]

Honestly, I'm impressed. This is one of he better theories I've heard and if nothing else, reminded me that there's nothing that explicitly says Manus is/was the Pygmy, people tend to just make that assumption.

[@Godeias]

I've fought Manus many times, and never knew you could summon Sif smh

[@uriel7395]

Before watching this video I always thought of the Furtive Pygmy of just being some random guy who died long before the curse happened. I never thought of them being someone we've heard a lot about, but this does make a lot of sense and for that I applaud you.

[@TheAshenHollow]

Thank you! =)

[@darktooth347]

Is it possible that Velka sacrificed her life, and therefore the Dark Soul in order to create humanity..? This would explain the ring of sacrifice for it was made out of a sacrificial rite of Velka, herself; a ring that protects souls, and humanity on death - both of the things that has a definition which pertains to what is being a "human." This'd also explain why we never actually see Velka in any of the games, I think you're onto something.

[@FGEnjoyer]

the fact about Furtive Pygmy and Velka is important figure in the series but absent in all 3 game just make it more sense

[@johannes3645]

It's a great theory! I clicked on this video with a grain of salt, but you actually blew my mind with how much evidence you brought up! Even though I still think Manus is most likely the furtive pygmy, you definitely made me reconsider the lore.

[@TheAshenHollow]

Hey, that's what Dark Souls is all about. Creating your own story! That's why I love to hear so many different ideas, because so many different stories can be made! =)

[@OhMyShoesMan]

Manus can't be it because he's human. Says Velka is similar to a human. Priscilla isn't in a prison. Says she's trapped. Says trapped isn't seen as a negative connotation for a term synonymous with imprisonment. Wtf😂

[@JoaoVictor-jd9jj]

This dude is crazy