The Considerations Before Judgement in Horary Astrology Revisited

Episode 298 features a followup discussion with astrologer Rob Bailey about the considerations before judgement, and the role they play in horary astrology.
This is a followup to episode 296 where I talked with Sue Ward about the considerations before judgement in the work of the 17th century astrologer William Lilly:
theastrologypodcast.com/2021/...
Even though the episode with Sue was really comprehensive, I had done so much research into the considerations in preparation for that interview that I felt like there were still some additional things to be said.
So the next day after recording the interview with Sue I sat down and recorded a discussion with Rob, which was originally going to be a bonus episode of the Casual Astrology Podcast only available to patrons, but it went so well that I decided to release it to the public.
The discussion with Rob ended up being a pretty wide-ranging two-hour discussion where we start by talking about an actual horary chart that Rob cast for Leisa a couple of years ago, and how well it described the focus of the question.
We then used that to launch into an exploration of what the fundamental meaning of the considerations were in Lilly and other traditional astrologers, in establishing the rootedness or radicality of questions, and why this was important to some astrologers.
During the course of the discussion we touched on a number of other topics such as consultation charts or thought interpretation, who were Lilly's sources for some of the considerations, and whether you can use whole sign houses for horary.
We also spent a bit of time discussing Lilly's lesser known second treatment of the considerations, which appears later in book 2 of Christian Astrology combined with a set of aphorisms, and the relationship between considerations and aphorisms.
For more information about Rob see his website:
oldschoolastrology.com
Or follow him on Twitter:
/ oldschoolastro
See the podcast website for a gallery of images of Lilly's aphorisms and considerations:
theastrologypodcast.com/2021/...
Please be sure to like and subscribe!
#TheAstrologyPodcast #HoraryAstrology
Timestamps
00:00:00 Intro
00:03:00 Rob's horary background
00:04:50 A horary Rob did for Leisa Schaim
00:08:00 Frivolous horary questions
00:16:38 Frawley's take on the considerations
00:21:50 Late and early degree rising sign consideration
00:31:07 Considerations as aphorisms
00:34:20 More than 12 considerations?
00:36:10 Tradition Journal website
00:38:10 More about aphorisms vs. considerations
00:46:00 Strictures
00:48:00 The traditions Rob and Chris follow
00:50:32 Unauthorized Christian Astrology edition
00:54:53 More about considerations
01:06:11 Afflictions of the Moon
01:08:57 Significator of the querent
01:11:08 Traditions Lilly drew from
01:12:00 1st and 7th houses
01:13:00 Book of the Nine Judges
01:18:28 The core of the considerations
01:23:50 Chart reflecting the question
01:29:37 Astrologers being tested
01:31:00 Thought interpretation and consultation charts
01:42:10 Reflections on the Skeptics episode
01:46:57 Horary is called questions by Lilly
01:49:51 Double-edged sword of historical investigations
01:51:39 More about Rob's horary chart for Leisa
02:06:45 Rob's website
02:07:47 Whole sign houses in horary
02:14:27 Rob's research on sources of considerations
02:14:56 Closing remarks

[@lindigreve2602]

I just found the Astrology Podcast a week ago and it has literally Quantum leaped me into the next phase of my understanding of astrology. Thank you 🙌🏻

[@sydkins432]

Rob seems like the kindest human!! So glad y'all had this discussion together. I know you said this was less structured and formatted, but I LOVED the flow of conversation. Felt organic and that you both were so in your element!

[@ewadsworth]

👍🏼🙌🏾💖🙌🏾👍🏽 Thanks for releasing it here for the public!!

[@luciarabago5524]

i love this episodes about horary! i've been getting more into it and this is super helpful

[@jodiearrington]

Another GREAT episode! Thank you Chris. Your episode with Sue Ward has me fascinated with Horary and to learn it in my continuing astrological studies.

[@oscardiaz3311]

What a good vibe! loving this wisdom and it makes me excited to eventually get into Horary.

[@ltohmmm5858]

Fantastic episode, both of you are amazing astrologers and I appreciate the horary topic very much. 🙏✨💓

[@faqirhu5495]

Looking forward to Episode 299 --> A discussion with Frawley on the last two episodes :D

[@xica6472]

Great episode! Thank you for releasing it publicly! Can you please release a list of top book recommendations specifically for learning traditional horary?

[@bdriz818]

Awesome episode! Thank you so much!

[@DavidGonzalez-ml6pl]

🔥 🔥 🔥 Amazing thank you so much Chris for sharing this!!! 👏🏻

[@SandyMetalMomWillis]

Thank you for answering that yes, you can do honorary in whole sign houses! I've been stressing about that.... please do a show on that!

[@herkimerblue3772]

Interesting follow up talk, thank you. (I'd love to see an episode on whole sign V quadrant for horary).

[@paulmagus2133]

You have given excellent definations of the three methods of using a void of course moon. I have noticed in the Regulus edition of William Lillys - three books of christain Astrology, on page 112 that a 'Planet is void of course when' etc and thought , "has anyone studied the idea of each of the planets being void of course and possable meanings in an Horary chart or maybe even in ther types of charts.?" might a void venus be a debility?

[@TurtleMarcus]

I've been wondering with Horary: what about "gaming the system"? E.g. if I already know Mercury is in a favourable position today, could I intentionally wait to pose the question until I know that the Ascendant is in Virgo or Gemini (thereby making Mercury the chart ruler)?

[@amaie9600]

Thank you !

[@Cmrntylr]

I was actually wondering about houses with that system and… when I threw one out, it was in Placidus which is a system I really don’t like where I altered it in my head until o went ahead and changed the settings when I decided it was worth saving. I stuck with whole signs figuring it was more why whole signs likely existed while also viewing it more accurate in terms of it reflecting exactly the context and sub-context of the question. Quadrants likely had a better answer, but the significators were right away in the 10th, 9th, and 5th. Well, 9th and 10th. It wasn’t directly about either, but the sub-context was if going down multiple rabbit holes was worth the time. Part of me holds the view that if casting a horary depends on something internal that’s persistent then causality then whatever house system is used is the right one. Even if I used a quadrant it’d wrap around to whole sign in interpretation. I prefer the floating MC and the MC in quadrant was actually much more beneficial. By a lot. Using whole sign as preferred wasn’t a biased move. However, one way of looking at it is that it’s extremely beneficial where I’m NOT going to like it. But house cast as 5th being hobbies related to the 9th is extremely accurate as a secondary where the initial is really good, but not comfortable with it. A lot of applying, the separating parts may be why I even asked the question to begin with. Anyways, just figured I’d say initially being a whole sign skeptic less than a year ago… I actually prefer whole signs while any house system by how horary works probably works fine. If fortune telling was illegal (etc) many of those considerations are likely just protections to avoid the obvious. You wouldn’t want to do a reading and be wrong if the person was a vengeful prosecutor or undercover police officer.

[@_aiborie]

Oh wow, Chris forgetting what episode number it is, so unusual haha.

[@FreemanPresson]

He doesn't always know what order they are going out in. Now that he has done >300, he has a free pass on forgetting the numbers!

[@rajeevkamra9120]

how much is the validity of horary chart?

[@_aiborie]

Hey, it's Astro Dad jk haha, tuning in!

[@FreemanPresson]

9:00 about malefics in the 10H: I am immune. You want malefics in the 10H? I have them all. 🤣 . One horary chart isn't going to make it worse.

[@FourthOneIsIt]

My impression was that Gemini sceptic gave mostly false birth info. Too, they wanted to remain unconvinced. Their deeply rooted sense of self was at stake. They would not have ever agreed - to themselves - that you got it right regarding some horary finding. They weren't that sincere.

[@delanostrachen3680]

As always ma