Theater of the Mind Vs. Terrain in D&D (Ep. 82)

[@Yontenb]

This reminded me of some classic advice. "If you set up a scene on a grid using terrain and miniatures, your players will assume it's a combat scenario and react accordingly."

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yep. Thanks for watching, Yonten!

[@seitom8849]

Yepp. I followed the advice of one of my players: For a fight, put that grid down but only if the fight breaks loose...not before.

[@pettersonystrawman9291]

Some of those lines are killing it :D ...We'll take our chance with the Balrog. ...This guy is not unspeakable, he's very speakable. :DDD

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I'm glad it gave you a chuckle. I'm never sure what people will think is funny!

[@brabra2725]

"This guy isn't unspeakable, it's very speakable" is a wonderful way to deliver the message in few words.

[@jkennedy6459]

I was expecting a video that chooses a side. This is even better. You never fail to impress. Thank you for all you do!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

You're welcome. Look fo the follow-up video this Wednesday at 2pm. I'll get back to you later today about your podcast.

[@jkennedy6459]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Looking forward to it. Sounds good!

[@quincykunz3481]

I enjoy the hybrid approach: dry erase markers on a grid. Quickly sketch walls, cover, and obstacles and place the minis. You can improvise with minimal effort, and your players still exercise a lot of imagination while you keep clarity and tactics intact.

[@ironbomb6753]

When I started, it was all "theater of the mind", then I brought out a dry erase board (no grid, plain white) then it became dedicated terrain. But I love building terrain. I'm going to incorporate UDT now. 😊

[@MRdaBakkle]

This guy isn't unspeakable. He's very speakable. -classic

[@Astartes36]

Lmao! OMG! You stole my comment!

[@madsam7582]

He's more than famous, he's IN famous!

[@goyasolidar]

"We'll take our chances with the balrog!" said no one ever.

[@jacobvanveit3437]

Goya Solidar when facing that even deadlier foe, the great and powerful bridge, even you would take your chances with the Balrog!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

My players would. They're stubborn.

[@timandshannon03]

I've played with both types of groups and I know people who was Misty Step or teleport vs stepping on a bridge!!!! Lol

[@rogerfarley7823]

I built your UDT with a lazy susan platform, but made it 22" dia. everyone LOVED it. thank you!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

You're welcome. 22"? That's HUGE!

[@FrankyDCrafter]

I like a good balance between both. I also do like placing chairs because I find that my players really like starting fights by throwing them at anything.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

LOL. I just uploaded the next video and I say you don't really need to craft chairs. Make sure you comment on that one and tell me I'm wrong.

[@FrankyDCrafter]

Dungeon Craft lmao 😂 nah I’m not a hater lol I bet you explain why you don’t use them well enough. I use them because my players are hooligans.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@FrankyDCrafter If I had read this post before yesterday's taping, I certainly would have mentioned "The only reason you need to craft chairs is if your players love to hit people with them." Which is pretty much the only reason I can think of to craft them!

[@FrankyDCrafter]

Dungeon Craft when does that video come out?

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@FrankyDCrafter Wednesday, 2pm.

[@dkbibi]

Prof: "To illustrate this let's go to the table and see..." Me: yiiiiiss! 😱

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Then you'll LOVE the next video because most of it takes place in my game room. It airs this Wednesday at 2pm Eastern!

[@jurgenstoll2394]

I've got a different experience. Once I was describing the group the environment and a really dangerous enemy in the theater of the mind. The monster was really big and really intimidating. "Wait! Don't tell me, what my character has to feel. Tell me only the things I see." Ok. The monster was really big, three times your size. "Ok. I attack it with my magic dagger." Are you sure? "Yes! I'm a hero with a magic weapon. Of course I'll attack." Ok.- But we played at my home and so I had some miniatures at hand. I placed the miniatures on the table. The Mini of the specific player was just big enough to fit into the mouth of the monster... "Holy moly" he cried out loud. "Run for your lives!" So, what I wanted to emphasize: Theatre of the mind is a wonderful and powerful way to roleplay. But not every player is able to use it with full capacity. Some players are more simple-minded. And for them terrain and minis are a great help.

[@soulfirez4270]

Yeah I had my party in an encounter with an ancient red dragon ( there only level 6 all 4 of them) and as I described the scene the mood of the group was lets take this bitch down but after a quick draw of the lair on the battle map throw some scatter terrain on and finally place my freshly painted gigantic red dragon mini on the table , the reply was oh fuck its huge and with harsh terrain aiding it . The plan quickly changed to a game of cat and mouse as they tried to lure it away from the exit they desperately needed to go ( as I had intended the encounter to be , rather than the slaughter that would have ensued with theater of the mind description I gave.

[@netherveilgames996]

So this is one of the best channels regarding DMing stuff. Bravo. Every video contains very practical ideas.

[@szulgitgk]

I love the advice about the logistics of one vs. the other, but nobody seems to be commenting on the biggest reason (for me) of choosing ToM at times -- when players are looking at minis, that game feels like it is happening to those minis, while in ToM, it is much easier to imagine your self as the character. Is this too obvious to bring into the discussion?

[@GenuineMattyC]

I think this is highly dependent on the dungeon master's ability to give narrative description to the scene, otherwise it's very easy to be distracted or have trouble envisioning yourself in the scene. Using miniatures on the other hand, even on a virtual tabletop, can help provide a visual anchor to what's being described and help aid immersion rather than work against it.

[@davidguerrero1636]

"This guy is very speakable" LOL

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks, David!

[@enzobambino]

I love using minis and terrain, but last night our DM went totally TOTM. He did a great job and it was a fun adventure!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Hat off to him/her!

[@ironbomb6753]

I love it when you tell us how you already know how your players will act, 😂 and they do! 😊 so much fun. What a great group of friends. ❤

[@paulofrota3958]

"We'll take our chances with the Balrog" In today's episode of ~FAMOUS LAST WORDS~

[@bernardkauffman7783]

I'm glad I found a channel with such practical advice. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@azuretigers5562]

WOW - Impressive !! @DungeonCraft I LAUGHED OUT LOUD when you said ''There is no reason to meticulously craft tables with little bits of food and spilled drinks on them'' I actually started to use UDT very recently and my players love it ; makes it LESS dungeon-crawlish and helps to see where your magical projectiles go, and who is getting surrounded by monsters. I have cinematic ideas now that only require theater of the mind ; being attacked by mutant undead scarecrows while riding a merchant's caravan. You can ***secretly*** give bonus Accuracy, and bonus positive effects to heroes who react and think FAST. For boss encounters ; I prefer tactical combat because heroes can use terrain and environment to add strategy to the battle. (Stone pillars, explosive barrels of gunpowder, a rope that falls down to a dark pit, unstable plaftorms, etc)

[@azrazel916]

Great work again Professor! I think immersion is a remarkable facet to the genre. You capture that essence I strive for. Blessed be.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I can always use blessings. Thanks!

[@CptnHammer1]

"this guy is an unspeakable... he is very speakable" nice

[@maxpower3050]

"This guy isn't unspeakable, he's very speak-able" is my new favorite line!!!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks, Max!

[@ramgladore]

I take turns DMing with my nephew. We've only been playing D&D for a little over 2 months. During which time I think I've spent maybe around $600 on books, minis, sets of dice and other things like binders, home made flash cards and paper standies, arts & crafts. My nephew has a bit more disposable income than I do and has probably spent more than everyone in our group combined. He bought the expensive terrain pieces and loads of figurines and paints. He's got the entirety of his adventure set up on his pool table in the basement with another card table. We leave our characters where they are. Take a snap shot with our camera just incase something gets moved. It looks pretty cool but at the same time, his adventure is limited to the size of his table and how much time he has to set it all up. But because I'm cheap and try to do things with less, I ended up printing out my own maps on my printer. And because I'm running Lost mines of a Phandelver, I don't have to spend as much time designing things. I have a map for the Sword coast, Cragmaw hideout, Cragmaw castle, Phandalin and the Redbrand hideout. I keep them in a cardboard tube and setting up the scene is as easy as laying down a piece of paper. And for the places I didn't bother to make a map like in the streets of Phandalin, I have a battle grid which I can draw upon with a marker. And going back to revisit previous places, I don't have to rebuild anything. I can always put the old map back down.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for taking the time to share. Good luck with the game!

[@erispapps9929]

I was a skeptic of ultimate dungeon terrain but I would say that now am a believer.

[@saintmatthew956]

We played mostly minis/grid until we moved from 5e to Dungeon World. Now we play mostly theater of the mind. Works great with Dungeon World!

[@Pastor.Jeff.Strong]

I use terrain made from Epic Isometric resources in my Dungeon World game to slightly enhance the theatre of the mind. But yes, DW is amazingly compatible with theatre of the mind.

[@sirguy6678]

Fantastic lecture! The fact that both theater of the mind and use of terrain have their places equally in gaming. Another argument for miniatures is adding to the production (visual) quality- many players like to purchase, paint, and show off their miniatures of the characters and monsters - another great one Professor!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks. Check out the follow up on Wednesday at 2pm.

[@BradFonseca]

No need to use one or the other exclusively. Both styles have their place. Awesome video, Professor! Thanks!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks, Brad! You'll enjoy the follow-up, to air this Wednesday at 2pm: how to speed transitions with UDT.

[@BradFonseca]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I look forward to it. #keepcampaignupdates

[@Pastor.Jeff.Strong]

Dungeon World + Epic Isometric in Roll20 = best rpg gaming experience of my life! You're not shackled to the grid, but have some great visuals to guide theatre of the mind!

[@dkbibi]

Agreed! Did the same!

[@Astartes36]

Really? Epic isometric on Roll20 is good? I guess I will have to check it out.

[@wasteoftime5848]

Most dnd channels I enjoy are about lore, story telling and, oddly enough, player and DM etiquette. Your angle on the mechanics of the game is second to none. I've always used house rules but it was mostly to remove exploits within the mechanics. I did some streamlining but, looking back, not nearly as much as I could have or even _should_ have.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for your kind and inspiring words. Makes me want o create more content!

[@patrickbuckley7259]

The best is to combine both. Using what you need it when feel you need it, and/or use a bit of both at the same time, a bit like your ultimate dungeon terrain. Remind your players that just because they can't see it on the terrain doesn't mean it's not there. We are in a cave, just because you don't see a smooth stone on the terrain doesn't mean you can't find one if you look. Edit: Posted before watching the video.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for watching, Patrick. Don't miss the follow-up on speeding transitions, to air this Wednesday at 2pm.

[@MrHoleinthevoid]

I’ve noticed I really look forward to your videos, like a 80’s kid on Saturday morning. I tend to use theater of the mind until there is a major scene, then I bring out the terrain. I might use index card RPG or a specific piece of scatter to represent what the players are interacting with. If it takes too much time or breaks the immersions to set something up, I usually just scrap it and go for theater of the mind. Just wondering if anyone has checked out Shadow of the Demon Lord by Robert Schwalb? It really reminds me of professor Dungeon Master’s D&D rules. It’s like if D&D and Warhammer fantasy had a baby and it grow up listening to metal and reading the Berserk manga series. With tears in his eyes “it’s beautiful...” “sniff-sniff snort”

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yes, am familiar with Shadow of the Demon Lord. Beautiful-looking book. Cool concept.

[@MogofWar]

Isn't UDT essentially a means to dynamically switch back and forth between Theatre of the Mind and Terrain... mid sentence if need be? Edit: And of course ya bring up UDT in exactly that context... This is why I'm subscribed.

[@jh1859]

I find your structured content very watchable and useful. I can't stand the free-form, conversation approach to these topics, like, it is so boring just watching other people have a conversation, dragging it out at their leisure while you have to sit there and just endure it, and hopefully take something away from it.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks, J. Every Dungeoncraft video is scripted, revised, rehearsed, shot 2x and edited so it contains no fluff. You will LOVE the video I just uploaded: "Create your Character Background in Less Than 3 Minutes." It clocks in at a lean 2:16. Look for it soon!

[@mowzrascal2350]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 do you have a link? I can’t seem to find the video

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@mowzrascal2350 kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2XGoZSqp7WjfdE

[@johnnapier8830]

Old comment but totally agree with this. One of the main reasons I subbed to this channel to be honest.

[@lighterknot9464]

In august where I live it's 100+ degrees in august and 80% humidity. I would like some 85 degree weather. I really enjoy your show

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I enjoy you watching my show. Thanks!

[@JaredHayter]

I think this is one of your best your videos that I've seen so far. One thing that I've been using more in my games that I think works as a bridge between terrain and theater of the mind is to print out a selection of evocative fantasy art that I place on the table to serve as a visual inspiration which is then embellished with verbal description. You can even use place minis on these illustrations to show relative positioning, zone-based movement and areas of effect, although it takes a little more handwaving than having a proper 1" grid.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Cool idea. Very ICRPG. Glad you like the video. You'll enjoy the next one, to air at 2pm on Wednesday.

[@JaredHayter]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Yeah, think ICRPG meets Colorforms. Looking forward to the next vid.

[@jacobstaten2366]

And the great debate continues. Ideally you could have a full on West World scenario with a big enough budget. Sometimes a prop is really helpful, but we often cover too much ground to make the whole thing terrain based. My solution is usually graph paper. I'd like to make some generic buildings and things in graph paper to make a kind of pixilated terrain that could be applied to any theme.

[@biffstrong1079]

Enjoy the Show and your crafted dungeons and your intro through town. Just rewatched Time Bandits for the first time in over 35 years where Terry Gilliam did some creative model and film work to create a spectacular fortress of Ultimate Evil. As he is panning up the monstrous structure all I could think is Professor Dungeon Master does it better.

[@duskworkerdron5901]

I like to use a giant whiteboard with dry erase markers. I draw whatever's relevant, and the players work with that. It's easy to improvise, and it gives players more of a visual on stuff (valuable for players who are visually-oriented thinkers) without it being super tactical. In combat or tactical scenarios, I just use a ruler to measure distance instead of using a grid.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Cool! Did you check out my Ultimate Dungeon Terrain?

[@duskworkerdron5901]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I have now! Cool concept. Might have to try it at some point.

[@Toddalotapodamus]

"85°" Hahahaha! 110° + regularly in an Oklahoma summer. Fantastic video. Thank you.

[@Rapkannibale]

I think theater of the mind also allows players to be part of molding the story. Since not everything is visible in front of them, they can ask the GM, hey is there a ledge I could jump on and then come crashing down on to the orc captain? And as a GM I would say, yes absolutely you can try that.

[@TheLaucomm]

My personal experience with terrain or maps is, that it leads players to exclusively think in a tactical manner, thereby killing creativity. Once I show my players something concrete, everything that is not depicted seems to be just not there for them (like watching a movie scene). On the other hand, when I am exclusively describing a scene, my players automatically come up freely with ideas based on how the scene looks in their own minds (like reading a novel), which is different for each player and tends to lead to a much richer experience. So unless I want a combat to specifically focus on tactics, or unless I just want to mix it up once in a while, I use theater of the mind.

[@BW022]

Funny with the Balrog scene as myself and my players react completely differently. You make a 2-d battle map drawing, place five figures for the 5th-level characters on the map and put in a 30' high flaming elemental and all the players are giving four letter words and immediately decide to run like chickens. Whereas, if the DM described the Balrog, one or more players might attack it without hearing the 30' high or flaming part.

[@BuckFu]

I had a map drawn out, it was a desert with lava flowing through it. The lava had made many shards of glass arching through the air some formed bridges over the lava flow which is where the players needed to cross. None of them wanted to cross that bridge, they were high enough level to skip the bridge altogether but one of my players said,”I’m not going to ruin all your fun” and ran across a glass shard bridge acing all the dex saves that I threw at him. 🤷‍♂️

[@adamnilsson2843]

Really good points, not all rpg elements can utilize a grid. I AGREE! Alfred Hitchcock said that the scariest thing is the unseen, and the unseen shall never be scaring to the mind where your imagination can not create ideas that are beyond your handling.

[@vichraev.5386]

I started with D&D Basic in 1981. We ran exclusively theater of the mind, because we couldn't afford minis, and that's how we did it for 20 years. Since I started running online, via Roll20 a few years ago, we use battlemaps for every combat. I am a map and graphics geek and love crafting beautiful maps and tokens for my players. However, there has always felt like there is something missing. I recently started a new campaign, and decided to dispense with the battlemaps and go entirely theater of the mind. OH MY GOD, it improved the experience TENFOLD. Without the trappings of a map and moving pieces around like a boardgame, my players and I focussed on the narrative and the story. I will never go back.

[@nightowl2495]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Great class as always Professor.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for watching, Aaron!

[@SniperKing029]

The terrain is amazing! I don’t play without it or especially good looking miniatures!

[@dylanwatts1045]

I've kind of made my own prototype of UDT that's made up of 6-inch hexes, the idea being that each hex represents how far a character can move with one Move action. Ultimately, I want to build it out of the foam UDT is made out of, with either magnets or Velcro to stick the hexes together, and make multiple kinds of terrain. One more thought: I like the idea of bridging the gap. I went to a community theater for the first time in a while, and I was intrigued at how much they were able to set the scene with minimal scenery. Why not do the same for your players? In my game, I call my UDT the "stage" for this reason. - Aside: I was also impressed with how quickly they were able to change the scenery without breaking the flow of the play. One could easily do the same with simple pieces of terrain

[@trouqe]

I agree and use this mix of both all the time, especially with my home sessions. Online, I stick to ToM for the most part unless something specific happens. Modules are different but even then, ToM would work a lot.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Nothing wrong with mixing it up!

[@volrosku.6075]

In 5e I've usually gone with a grid dungeon crawls and combat and theatre of mind outside anything else.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I'd do the same. Be sure to check out the next video, to air this Wednesday at 2pm Eastern!

[@juanjosesegura4585]

Good video, enjoyable yet very informative. Got me smiling a few times 😂

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for taking the time to watch!

[@Astartes36]

Professor, thank you again for a great video! Someone else mentioned that they look forward to your videos like when we were kids waiting for Saturday morning cartoons, and that is a perfect description! I’ve been using Roll20 because my group can’t meet face to face and I find that I’ve been relying on it too much. I think your video will help me use TOTM more effectively in between terrain screens.

[@darrenp9454]

Nice timing for the topic!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks. Follow up video next week on speeding transitions.

[@johnr7279]

Awesome one! I've also learned these lessons, partially the easy way and partially the hard way. I guess I once dreamed that you could find a way to use terrain for everything but...well, impossible to do! Absolutely on terrain being the best overall for combat. It gets players to think about things like flanking, timing their attacks, positioning, and other tactical stuff. Also, important to first describe something critical such as a major NPC, enemy, boss monster, or whatever versus just whipping out a mini that might not evoke the same sense of fear and respect as your description. The mini might fall short of your description whereas you describing it first then bringing it out just works better as it simply represents what you've already talked about. I've observed that it's best to simply introduce whatever method works best for each situation. I have built a few ships but I rarely depict them stationary in port. The idea of the ship models is for encounters on the water. I use a simple blue oceany-looking cotton sheet that looks like water. I like having a grid out there a lot of the time. Like you stated, have the minis there. That grid serves as that middle ground. You can conduct a combat there or you can quickly make a grid into a building with just a dry erase marker! It bridges the gap.

[@key7817]

2:24 i had this dragon as a child it was my favorite toy becouse it loocked so cool.... i totally forgot about it, you just brought a lot of memories back.

[@Jergal1]

Something I found is that using gridless combat scene usualy help to reduce the time consumption that players take normally in a more tactical grid battles.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Definitely. My UDT is griddy because it needed a pattern. I have a more subtle pattern I'll be showing off in a future episode. Stay tuned!

[@mttexg2120]

For chase scenes, I *LOVE* the Pathfinder Chase deck!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I have to check it out. Thanks, Craig!

[@mttexg2120]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 There are 2 separate decks. Lots of options.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@mttexg2120 Cool!

[@DaBezzzz]

The way I do it, is I have a map of combat terrain behind the screen and I describe it, including cover, where the monsters are and where the heroes are, then the players can just say "I move up to my speed limit" or "...up to that thing on the ground" and I calculate cover and reach and stuff from there.

[@BusyBadger]

I'm a big fan of the Chessex Megamat & Battlemat combo, I've yet to invest in a Mondomat. They're multi-use & purpose, portable (get a poster/art/drawing tube and just roll them up you're golden), add a few overhead projector pens (I prefer Vis a Vis for the broad lines) and some 2D scatter terrain and you're set.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I started with a Chessex mat! Have to check out Mondomat. Thanks!

[@aaronbono4688]

I had never thought about the psychology behind terrain making players reluctant to do things. That is really intriguing. Personally I like to use a mix of terrain and theatre of the mind. I also like to make my terrain purposefully inaccurate so the players don't get to mired in what they see but consider it a convenient (and cool) representation but they can still exercise their creativity. That being said, my game tomorrow will have a massive terrain project that will probably be taken very literally but that's because I wanted the players to use it as a tactical assault on a brigand hideout. The terrain is going to be important in how the game plays out. And I made it all modular so I can reuse it with other configurations in the future.

[@NefariousKoel]

The issue of player location and cover uncertainty, using "theater of the mind", can certainly be a problem. That's why I prefer using the somewhat abstract 'Zone' style movement & range mechanics found in RPG systems such as 2d20, Fate, and others. When taking a move action, characters must state whether they are moving into cover, or into melee range, within their destination zone. If they haven't then they're not in cover. Basically three or four spaces and a yes/no situation regarding cover or melee range within the current zone. Easier to Mind-Theater, and jot down as small situational notes.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Funny you should mention that. I have "Zone UDT" which I''ll be sharing in an upcoming episode!

[@NefariousKoel]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Wonderful! Looking forward to it!

[@mizukarate]

Great video Professor

[@Janshevik]

tbh, I prefer grid much more. Theater of the mind is not necessarily faster, because dungeon master has often to repeat the situation because not everyone can memorize everything what is happening, a moment of distraction by anybody and everything is thrown in the wind. Also grid allows a player to thing about his move during others' turn, so he doesn't need to start thinking about it when he just started the turn. Theater makes sense is sudden short encounters or duels, where not even all players are involved. This way you can end it shorter.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

You are not incorrect. Depends on the group. It's all about what makes things easier for the DM.

[@adamwelch4336]

Neat! terrain is better then the mind because terrain is something everbody has a diffent theatre of the mind but terrain is tagable and everbody sees the same thing!but for me both are better together!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I agree; thanks for watching. Follow up video to air Wednesday @ 2pm.

[@ndowroccus4168]

I am same, I will use minis, but TotM is so much easier, as long as you are good at describing things.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

I mostly do boss battles and very hard encounters in terrain. Makes it special where I test their skills and make them feel their deaths were fair ; )

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

My players are less interested in combat tactics and mechanics that they are in story and social interaction, so no grid for me. I like the combat grid for dungeon hacks, which is still my favorite type of game. But I’ve rarely used a grid as a DM and I seem to do just fine describing the scene. I can see how it would be more essential for a big group though.

[@agsilverradio2225]

I would do reusable battlemats for combat. Cheeper than terain, but surves the same pourpose. Also, I may do fog of war, only puting minis and objects on the mat that would be within the pc's line of sight. But perhalps theater of the mind for most other things.

[@larryvieira2859]

You can also use a Blackstone to represent the unspeakable thing therefore they have to picture in their mind what the creature looks like.

[@MGP2210]

03:25 Slow combat is mostly a player failing. Know your skills and prep when it's not your turn. Roll quickly and move quickly

[@JD77ATH]

Brilliant advice. Clarified things a lot. Thanks

[@davidbabbitt1839]

Yes, always choose TOTM as much as you possibly can. I avoid battlemaps unless forced to. SPeaking of your battlemap, Home Depot often doesnt carry those 18" round wood panels anymore. Its cheaper to buy a 1/2" thick wood disk. lazy susan 20" off Amazon.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Probably. Having used my LS for a few months, I'l looking into a lighter version for transportation purposes. I'll probably just buy it from Ikea.

[@mizukarate]

I only play solo these days but use both methods. I also enjoy pen and paper.

[@Styles2304]

The only thing I would disagree with is smaller terrain like the desk for example. Sure, it's not necessary to have representations for mundane actions like searching but if it's not on the table, players don't think about using it either. In theater of the mind, they're more likely to be creative and use what they imagine is available. So like you said, the desk is kind of pointless... until they decide to flip it on edge and take cover from the barrage of arrows that's about to be launched their way. Also... you're the highlight of my Thursday.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks! FYI--this week's episode airs on Wednesday at 2pm. Throughout the summer I'll be airing extra videos and won't schedule everything on Thursdays.

[@JeffDrennen]

Thank you for this video. Finally someone has brought up this topic. I totally agree the theater of the mind works better with horror although I'm surprised on your thoughts on epic battles. Ever sense I seen your first Ultimate Dungeon Terrain video I've thinking about how you use terrain and noticed you use terrain not as direct physical or tactical representation of what's going on like most DMs/GMs but more of a representation of concept on what's going, if that make sense.

[@tomdulski3729]

The players didn't set foot on the bridges because they knew damn well they were going to have to make a DEX check for each round they were on them. Staying on the solid ground would mean one less chance of being killed or wounded.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Right! They're soft and spoiled!

[@Arvaniz]

Nobody stated one of the main reasons against terrain and minis... cats. If you have cats, at the first sight of a mini, they'll be all over your table, throwing and biting everything. ;-) (TBH, they have a similar reaction with dice... but dice are less fragile than minis)

[@ashercortez3237]

Those wizard's towers are amazing

[@phibetakafka]

I have a condition called Aphantasia which is an inability to picture images in your head. A literal lack of visual imagination. Pure black when you close your eyes. Mind-blind. If you don't have it, I doubt you can comprehend what it's like - can you actually shut off your imagination and not picture a pink elephant? It's not a huge obstacle to playing - I have a degree in literature - but it does mean I'm super bored when someone spends a minute over-elaborating the description of a room or character; my working short-term memory can hold like 5 details about a person, place, or thing before details start getting shoved out for the next one - things like colors/sounds/smells, distances or numbers, objects held, etc. Geometry and spatial relationships in particular are something I don't even try to deal with - you can't describe the layout of a room to me, I mentally deal with it like it's UDT - a table in the corner, 3 orcs, a trapdoor, and a fireplace? Just abstract objects and all that matters is are they interactable/in reach or not. Things that matter more are relationships, actions, and storytelling. UDT makes sense for that - and I made a UDT for myself - but having ANY kind of visual aid makes things much easier and more immersive for me. It makes a BIG difference just having a printed map with a few cut and paste objects and maybe some color and texture to convey that it's a town, cave, swamp, etc. A printout of a character or monster helps differentiate them, otherwise they'll tend to blur into stat blocks I need to roll dice against. Miniatures and terrain are the best for making me feel like I'm "there" or bringing me as close to the action as I can get. Giving my brain something to latch onto helps me assign and remember traits/actions/relationships much more easily. A figure helps tie the statblock together, and acts as a visual shorthand for all the complexity of a character. Looking at physical objects is a way for my brain to compartmentalize and efficiently store data by providing the slightest bit of "real" context. It even helps create the proper emotional space; the worst-painted figure, a piece of cardboard folded into the shape of a wall, a little campfire prop or - pinch me because I must be dreaming - a replica of a tavern with little tables and chairs and figures make things 100% more affective. To me, it is kind of like the emotional attachment you can make to an 8-bit Nintendo game like Dragon Quest or early Final Fantasies - I just need some super basic visual items to process things and color maps and printed figures or tokens work wonders. Better figures and terrain is like upgrading to a Playstation, and makes things funner and more hands-on even if the story isn't any better because of it. Having visual and physical aids actually helps my imagination work HARDER because it gives me more tools to conceptualize with and a framework to work within, versus a total blank page.

[@augustoluis6888]

"Unless there's a brawl in the tavern where the patrons are werewolves and they start eating people" Huh. Holy shit.

[@CharlesTersteeg]

interesting how the combined approach works, a newer video on this with vtt would be cool. i know you don't do vtt but some of us are gifted with distance between friends.

[@samchafin4623]

With index cards as the link between them.

[@stevethomas5978]

I use both. I use terrain especially in a dungeon where strategy and tactics are questionable and theatre of the mind in a tavern, town or market type scenario.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Absolutely. Thanks for watching, Steve. Be sure to check out the next video, to air this Wednesday at 2pm Eastern!

[@tyleremery7088]

I recently backed a kickstarter for magnetic any-erase (use any marker including permanent) grids that had an option to get rubberized magnetic 2-D terrain to go on it. It's quick, easy, and works well to bridge the gap between theater of the mind and terrain. The campaign itself is over, but there's still a chance to back it if anyone is interested. www.kickstarter.com/projects/cursedcrypt/mimics-grid/description

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Cool idea. I actually saw some magnetized UDT at GenCon. Very cool.

[@fredericlessard241]

PDM, where did you get those fire markers at 2:15 ? They're great!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

genCon, years ago. And I've never seen them again.

[@spawn-sr8tw]

Tbh i dont do much terrain and i tend to just be discriptive , using the map for combat and relative location

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

That's cool. if you HAVE to use a map I think UDT is best option.

[@spawn-sr8tw]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 udt? Also i am a pretty new dm imo My party has been awesome since they were all first time players so the experience i lack went unnoticed . but keep up the content i am constantly learning

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@spawn-sr8tw Great to have you aboard!

[@Je_suis_Jefe]

Aerial and underwater 3D combat are better with theater of the mind. An assassination attempt or a bar fight is more clear with a grid.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Great point; I concur.

[@lollerkeet]

Check the mass battle rules in L5R 4e. It's essentially a set of encounters for the PCs.

[@olivermeloche2042]

how do you feel about the use of a lamented grid where there is no 3d terrain but instead drawings of sharpie? It has the benefits of clarity and exact spacing but doesn't do much for aesthetics value and can be limiting/time consuming

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Whatever works. I like something tactile to look at.

[@spacetramp6267]

Another advantage of theater of the mind: The graphics processor in the human brain is better than terrain pieces... it's even better than the best computers still.

[@Johnn84]

Thanks for making these videos. I hava a question: how do you keep track of your monsters health, when using miniatures in battle? Most miniatures don't have a number that separate them, so I find it hard to keep track of them.

[@emveeay]

Hey professor, thank you for the video. Off topic: have you tried Amber diceless? If yes, what's your opinion?

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Read Zelazny's books. Owned the game when it first came out, read it, pitched it to my players and they said, "No dice? No dice!" Fine game though.

[@emveeay]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Glad you like the game. My tabletop game (which I modeled heavily on your videos, no rulebooks, icrpg dc, almost zero accounting) has been trending towards minimal rolls. Combats done in less than 3 rounds. Amber's resolution system seems to be the next step. Very intriguing.

[@quonomonna8126]

oh I see its like a spotlight over the characters

[@AlexBermann]

While I concur that you can't put everything on the table and have to omit unimportant details, I wouldn't call tables, rugs and chairs unimportant. In theater of the mind, it's easy for the players to just ask "how far is the next table to me? "and then run towards it and flip it for cover. If you use terrain or a map, the assumption tends t be that you would have put it there if it was there. Another factor is something I noticed in TRPGs: if there is a map and you're not in a dungeon, you eventually will come in a situation where going outside the map would be the best tactical option. Also, terrain can't usually account for chaos. Due to player decisions, I often don't know where a confrontation will happen and which enemies will be present. Also what do I do with things like expanding fires, raising water levels or collapsing floors? Another aspect I dislike about maps and terrain is that they create a feeling of omniscience and of having the time to plan. For many situations, this feel inappropriate. Let's say a dragon attacks town: you see him shortly until a house blocks your view. There is smoke and screaming everywhere, Kobolds chase vivilians around and a burning carriage with panicked horses races around for good measure. Or let's talk about a bar fight. A character is pushed back against a table. They could turn the tide by rolling over the table, but there is the risk that they'd fall over a chair or bump into someone else. Looking isn't really an option because of the opponents attacks. If LARPing told me anything, it's how hard it is to see the big picture in battle and I like to convey this in pen and paper RPGs.

[@michaelwallace6851]

I've never run a game using terrain. I bought a battle mat many, many years ago and use it on the rare occasion that a room is too difficult to describe in a fashion where the players understand it all. I definitely love watching crafting videos but I don't foresee the need to actually use any terrain or miniatures.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

That's cool. Just do me a favor and keep watching my crafting videos. I need views and the little goblins need to eat!

[@oKingLexx]

So...I do miniatures with a 3x4 dry erase board, I describe the scene details but I only draw what's necessary strategically. Is this a mix??

[@foolishsamurai9046]

That's maybe just me being an idiot, but if the battle doesn't have any terrain and surroundings that influences the battle, why even have the battle again? My favorite battle from all TTRPGs was very much influenced by the terrain, i had my character destroy a balcony with a cannon and my friend used a random prop the GM added to look cool to create a makeshift rocket and rammed it into a crowd.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Sounds cool! If terrain makes a difference, I would definitely include it.

[@VMSelvaggio]

Hey PDM! You ask "TotM or Terrain?" I say, "Porque no los dos?" (Why not both?)

[@Niyucuatro]

I keep it all theatre of the mind until combat hits. Then i use one of those grid mats you can draw with a marker and is easily cleaned with paper towel and a bit of water. To lazy to draw the entire dungeon on the mat. And i keep the drawing to a minimum. I'm not really into arts and crafts myself.

[@TheLukemcdaniel]

Terrain is nice. Terrain can help. But if your'e using it as a crutch, you're going to have a bad time.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

That's how I feel! Thanks for watching. Follow up video to air Wednesday @ 2pm.