Defending "BAD" James Bond Movies? | Debating the Underdogs

[@erikdolnack2737]

I love when David has Joe Darlington on. The two of them always have amazing Bond movie discussions together!

[@Mike-Rogers]

Agreed. Joe is one of the best, if not THE best people to have on to have a discussion about Bond. Great insights and great personality. 👍

[@Paul91-]

I love his "debates" with Calvin too. Both guys have great chemistry with one another.

[@astrohilfiga6966]

@@Mike-Rogers JIM BOND BABY

[@jhking8542]

Really enjoyed this chat. My underdog film is Tomorrow Never Dies: -The story was decades ahead of it's time. -Kick ass pre-title sequence (second best in whole franchise for me) -First Brosnan Bond movie written specifically for his traits, mixing Connery and Moore together. -Backseat driver scene -Motorcycle stunts -Wai Lin and combat generally -Old school end scene infiltrating a secret base (boat) and destroying it, saving the girl and ignoring the rescue party -David Arnold TND conforms to the classic Bond formula and is real fun ride.

[@miikamessi]

Amen

[@rnuila07]

I never knew Licence to Kill was considered “bad” its definitely one of my favourites

[@matthewganong1730]

I absolutely love Licence to Kill. I will say that it is absolutely the closest thing to a Fleming novel that we’ve ever gotten on screen. I dare you to read all of the novels, watch this film, and say all of the elements aren’t there. It follows the Fleming structure perfectly.

[@NH1973]

Yes, 100%. It is the movie version of the Live and Let Die book.

[@huskerjpg]

LTK suffers from some poor special effects and and some bad prop work but otherwise is an excellent movie.

[@johnweber4577]

@@NH1973 A combination of elements from both Live and Let Die and The Man with the Golden Gun really.

[@samfisher2306]

Surprised to see someone that's read Fleming's novels. Timothy Dalton is the Bond described in those novels in terms of looks & character. Period

[@NH1973]

@@samfisher2306 absolutely. Dalton already looked the part of the literary Bond. He has exactly the features and hair that Fleming described. But beyond that, he also made a point to read all the books, so that he could really bring Fleming's Bond into the scripts he was given. He is, without a doubt, the best Bond when it comes to portraying the literary character. Its such a shame he only did two films.

[@youonlyreviewonce007]

Licence To Kill my number 1 since childhood. Don't care about issues with that film. Dalton is amazing!

[@LakeHowellDigitalVideo]

Licence to Kill is almost my #1 favorite. I like serious Bond films -- Daniel Craig's films are also at the top of my list.

[@strikerbowls791]

Yikes

[@jbl6338]

License to Kill is very underrated!

[@SharkWhosFondOfBond]

Childhood, wow you have naughty parents! 😂

[@rendellbartholomew2742]

License to kill isn't a bad movie at all IMO. Timothy Dalton was ultra underrated as Bond. While I also thought spectre was a good not great movie. Spectres opening was spectacular and memorable.

[@danbo433]

Moonraker for me. Roger at his most charming and - though a little silly - I just find it SO much fun. Stunning locations and THAT aerial scene at the beginning...Brilliant.

[@rikardandersson183]

Its comicbook Bond but in a good way, just like The Spy Who Loved Me

[@tgriffin3059]

Moonraker takes a lot of criticism, but much of it is disingenuous. They berate it for being a cheap sci-fi cash in, but it's the final available Bond novel. What were they going to do, skip Moonraker because somebody might mock them for using the title right after Star Wars came out? I'd say Moonraker is the best Bond film, because it's the one that justified the excessive running time. About the time I'd usually be getting tired, Bond blasts off into orbit, and this gives the final half hour a burst of energy that is usually lacking towards the end of a Bond epic.

[@SharkWhosFondOfBond]

It's certainly in my top 5, the Moore era is definitely my favourite Bond era!

[@johnny4438]

License to Kill for Dalton's performance and Q has a big role here and any scene with him is very enjoyable....I'll throw in Sanchez as a great villian and the tanker scene closer as a top 5 ending in the series...

[@Professor_Fate]

For me, it's "The Man with the Golden Gun." I understand all the criticisms of the film; but it has a special place in my heart. It was the first film my parents let me go alone to watch in the theater. It also co-stars Christopher Lee, and I've always been a Lee/Dracula fan. All of which came together when I was privileged to meet Mr. Lee many years later.

[@markjones2879]

I can imagine the conversation between you and your parents in trying to persuade them to let you go alone to see TMWTGG..."sure dad its totally suitable, a man with three nipples, admittedly slightly kinky, a Benny Hill style romp with Maud Adams while Brit Ekland hides in a wardrobe, a theme tune that's basically about a penis oh and Bond slaps a woman about a bit then beats up a disabled person....mom said it will be fine!"

[@countryoftheblind]

I concur--see my comments here.

[@davidnorris3131]

One of my favourite Bond films too, I always find it quite titillating

[@Hunter23UK]

Bloody love The Man with the Golden Gun, but a guilty pleasure for sure

[@jonnybyrne989]

Agreed the man with the golden gun, is a fantastic bond movie

[@RolandHulme]

I'm definitely with Joe on Octopussy. It's always been one of my favorites, too - I didn't realize it was considered a "bad" Bond film until I watched this! Joe nailed it about how climactic the end of the movie was. I'm also with Ray. Licence to Kill was something spectacular. It shows how on-the-pulse EON was about what was popular - and having Bond as the hero of an American style action movie is a delicious twist on an oversaturated genre.

[@emilymcplugger]

@RolandHulme Octopussy negatives: the Benny Hill style humour. Octopussy positives: Brilliant pre-title sequence Great Bond girl Brilliant intrigue Great twist “against who?” Grounded villains Fantastic stunts - mini plane, running on train, plane at the end And at times great dialogue “it’s all in the wrist”.

[@countryoftheblind]

My underdog is TMWGG. Scaramanga is one of the best Bond villains. The style--Scaramanga's base, the Peninsula Hotel, Scaramanga's yacht--is some of the best of any movie. The locations are great and really part of the story. The Hong Kong scenes could not have been shot anywhere else (compare SKYFALL, where Bond in Shanghai could have been any random large city) and involved real local characters. The plot is unique and interesting, and leads to an iconic confrontation between Bond and Scaramanga. Great Bond girls. This is my favorite Roger Moore movie.

[@jesseowenvillamor6348]

If it just focused on the Bond-Scaramanga dynamic, I think it will be a great Bond movie

[@IzdSammy]

There is an interesting Wicker Man (1973) - connection in TMWGG -- in both an isolated island with its own moral and law code into which a "fool", who doesn't know his role, is lured to fulfill his final ultimate sacrifice. The "fool" enters the island with a plane in both movies. Christopher Lee played the lord in Wickerman and Britt Ekland a sexy chick, who tempted the law and order.

[@countryoftheblind]

@@IzdSammy Yes, if you like Britt Eckland you will love this movie.

[@royrayburn1503]

Timothy Dalton was a great Bond ! He is my second favorite next to Sir Sean Connery. I have read the books , Dalton was spot on. Way ahead of Craig's portrayal of the gritty Bond.

[@tmmartinesq.6216]

JOIN

[@callummoore6962]

Interesting because with my circle of friends, Licence to Kill is viewed as a highly regarded film with some even calling it their favourite.

[@audiobookgold6717]

I enjoy License to Kill because there aren't any 007 films like it w/ the darker tone and rouge Bond

[@rmartins1984]

For me, it's TMWTGG. Just love so many elements like Scaramanga, Nick Nack, locations (island especially), bad one-liners, and even Mary Goodnight. But, I know it isn't a good movie. It's just one that I still enjoy.

[@richardconnold5207]

Nick Nack? Tabasco!

[@CannonballZ-rb7jo]

TMWTGG is my underdog too. It is nicely weird, the characters are quirky, and it feels different from most Bond movies. It isn't trying to please a mass audience.

[@richardconnold5207]

@@CannonballZ-rb7jo Agreed. I like TMWTGG, very much. It doesn't reach the dizzy heights of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, but it's a lot better than the shoddy LIVE AND LET DIE.

[@ross938]

For someone who just turned 40, watched Bond films when I was a kid on Saturday evening (in the uk) I’d somewhat forgotten all about my joy and love of the films. It wasn’t until lockdown that I found The Bond Experience channel, then only last year did I purchase all the films. I’ve been trough them one a week and am going through them now a second time. I don’t have many options on underdogs yet but I know that I enjoyed “license to kill” very much. I’m just hear because it’s entertaining and David and his crew do amazing videos.

[@DafyddBrooks]

awwww nice story man :)

[@alexjames8135]

My underdog has to be Tomorrow Never Dies, my favourite Brosnan movie. Goldeneye always seems to be championed as his best (& occasionally TWINE) but for me, TND ticks all the boxes - Michelle Yeoh is a terrific Bond girl, the action is great & the villain’s motivation, like Goldfinger, is simply wealth, not world domination. And the icing on the cake is Pierce’s best performance as Bond.

[@marychocolatefairy]

I've always liked Tomorrow. I was watching it again recently with someone who's not that familiar with Bond, and we both enjoyed it. Especially the remote car chase scene. My one issue with the movie is the very OTT chase scene later where bad guys are shooting up a whole neighborhood to try to get Bond and Wai Lin, and then a helicopter comes and tries to get them with its propellers.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

@@marychocolatefairy I thought that chase scene worked but the helicopter bit was dumb.

[@richardconnold5207]

GOLDENEYE is my favourite Brosnan, but TND contains my favourite Arnold/Bond cue: "Helicopter Ride". Fantastic ethnic instrumentation, and those pounding drums.

[@niels25chr1]

Licence to kill is not an underdog anymore and today it is often consider as being among the best - It deserves to be considered on the greats. It just works and the casting is easily one of the best castings of the entire series. BTW Talisa Soto does a great job in LTK. What´s all that about her A-game being bad? She is much more enjoyable here than many character in No Time To Die... David Dencik is SO over the top in No time to die. It looks as if he is in the wrong movie. And why is Krests exploding head goofy? It looks real to me and its scary as hell... It´s not goofy at all. Its practical effects at its best. There are no plotholes in Licence To Kill. And Sanchez DOES find out, that Bond is a secret agent. In fact Bond tells him himself when they drink coffee. You should be able to remember that. In my opinion Quantum Of Solace is Craigs second best movie despite some quick editing. Its got a great plot that doesn´t distract you. Its a great follow up to Casino Royale. The whole water privatization plot is VERY realistic actually. Love the villain because of his plot.

[@tcaudiobooks737]

Obruchev was an awful, awful villain, he's like a Saturday morning cartoon villain sidekick. Imagine having a sky high IQ and developing a sophisticated weapon, then being stupid enough to say to an armed black woman - who already demonstrated a willingness to do you physical harm - that you're prepared to wipe out her entire race, while standing on a walkway suspended over a pool of acid.

[@erikdolnack2737]

My personal 'Defending "BAD" James Bond Movie' is "A View to a Kill". THE best ever James Bond theme song by Duran Duran. GREAT villain pair with Christopher Walken and Grace Jones. I LOVE Patrick Macnee as Bond's sidekick (just wish he wouldn't have been killed off so soon in the film). One of John Barry's better Bond scores. Final appearance of Louis Maxwell as Moneypenny. Roger Moore is as charming as ever. Not the best Bond movie by any means, but is vastly better than others (Die Another Day, Quantum of Solace, License to Kill, No Time to Die, Never Say Never Again, Diamonds Are Forever). I even like View better than For Your Eyes Only.

[@PartTimeBox]

Yep, this is mine too.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

Octopussy contains excellent scenes. The auction scene alone is one of my all time favorite Bond moments. However, the story construction of the film is a hot mess. Making the Faberge Egg the mcguffin needlessly complicated the plot and most of the scenes in India were often dumb filler. The jewelry smuggling was really an after thought compared to the vastly more important threat of an atomic bomb going off in an Air Force Base.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

​​@@rossmccay They were basically trying to do Goldfinger. From smuggling to a major plot involving an atomic bomb. However, the construction was all over the place. Things really don't start making sense until late in the movie, when Bond arrives in Germany. Another thing is, they tried to duplicate the villain ensemble from From Russia With Love. There are far too many characters. We get THREE henchmen, two villains, and one minor sub-villain. Way too much.

[@coltongottman]

For me it has to be Diamonds are Forever. The dialogue, the title song, the wittiness, the soundtrack, it just has a enough for me to always appreciate it and it’s one I grab and watch a lot.

[@ediesedgwick4462]

I agree with you 100%. It's my favorite Bond film.

[@thatguyfromcetialphaV]

Licence to Kill is one of the best of the bunch. I personally do not rate any of the Craig movies after Casino Royale at all. And Diamonds are Forever is my go to 007 outing if I'm in a bad mood. It makes me smile.

[@richardhoulton4016]

Licence to Kill was upper 1/3 Bond IMHO. Spectre should remain forever condemned for wasting what should have been the master casting of Christoph Waltz as Blofeld. I’ve never been more disappointed by Bond movie…except maybe the last one.

[@jesseowenvillamor6348]

No Time To Die is good

[@richardhoulton4016]

@Greg Elchert Waltz was a massive opportunity completely squandered courtesy of a stupid script.

[@dereklewis4321]

NTD falls short in the final act but over all its still a decent film. Specter tho is hands down the worst bond film ever made. They literally took the Austin Powers Goldmember joke of the two being brothers and said "that's not a bad idea" lmaoo

[@jesseowenvillamor6348]

@@dereklewis4321 NTD's final act is great. Spectre has problems, but to say it is the worst Bond film is an exaggeration. That would be Moonraker

[@anttivirolainen8223]

@@jesseowenvillamor6348 Since we started this discussion, I think that Die Another Day is clearly the worst Bond movie, with Moonraker being the second worst. Spectre is the weakest of Daniel Craig's Bond films and is also near the bottom of the overall list. Actually, I mostly enjoyed Spectre until Bond and Madeleine traveled by train to Blofeld's base in the Sahara, but after that, the film went downhill rapidly. The "Brofeld" plot twist was an unforgivable blunder.

[@danbeck5051]

Octopussy and Licence To Kill are among my favorite in the series. Octopussy had the right balance for a Roger Moore movie: the humor is fun, exciting action scenes where you feel Bond is in danger (unlike in Moonraker), the gadgets are believable, an interesting plot with good villains and great Bond girls. Licence To Kill has my favorite action scenes in the franchise, one of the best villains (druglord 80s' cliche but Robert Davi makes him "bondian", sophisticated and menacing), and it was the first Bond I saw in theatre. I was disapointed Dalton did not returnded for another movie and was a bit underwelmed with Goldeneye (too much back to the formula, poor music score and without memorable action scenes).

[@codpro627]

Agreed Goldeneye is overrated as hell

[@susantailby3755]

Quantum of Solace - it's an art Bond film. It has a great score and looks beautiful; the fight scenes, the opera, Camille's character, the cheek of when they freefall from the plane and still have change to get the bus to the nearest town; Dominic Greene's sidekick in a neckbrace after encountering Bond; the exploding hotel inferno; the Aston chase. It isn't an all rounder like the other Craig Bonds due to being rushed and the Writers Strike. It does feel like a Bond throwback - one of the female characters has a jokey rather than an actual name, and in this movie Bond is more jokey, almost channelling Roger Moore! Also some strange loose ends - M gets shot, but immediately bounces back and the poor lone hotel worker (housekeeper/manager?) who is abused, escapes and then has their workplace blown up. What happens to her?

[@davidnorris3131]

Don't like to see my hero dump his mates dead body in a skip, especially when he was the one who talked him out of retirement

[@jesseowenvillamor6348]

@killwill83 Wrong

[@michaelmeffert5722]

@@davidnorris3131 Bond dumped him and took the wallet to let the scene look like a robbery to throw off the next police men at the scene. Not really explained in the movie though.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

Quantum of Solace is a horribly constructed pile of crap. I am familiar with films that have real artistic merit. I have enjoyed the works of Tarkovsky, Bergman, and Ozu. Outside of the use of color, there is nothing worthy of interest in that crap.

[@Jollywonnochka]

Absolutely based absolutely agree!

[@spacemann1425]

Who in their right mind considers Licence To Kill a bad Bond film? That film is top 10. It essentially set the stage for what later went on to become Craig's Bond. And it brought some much needed grit to the franchise.

[@tmmartinesq.6216]

Must be mental.

[@vittoriacolona]

LOL! Batman Begins and Jason Bourne was what set the stage for Craig's Bond.

[@spacemann1425]

@@vittoriacolona I get what you're saying but that's not exactly what I meant. Dalton basically pioneered the style of Craig, and elements of his style were used by Brosnan as well. The idea that Batman Begins and Jason Bourne were an influence on Craig's Bond is debatable.

[@greatwuta]

​@@spacemann1425You got some ppl that don't like this film too much. Especally David who ranked that garbage as film Diamonds Are Forever higher than Licence To Kill 😤

[@TheT3rr0rMask]

It feels really American 80s action movie, the revenge plot feels tropey at first glance, it lacks "Bond class" for the first half, and the set design is more grounded than some Bond movies. Most of all, Dalton goes HARD compared to any Bond actor (more than Craig even). I'm not saying these as complaints, but lotta fans saw these as detractors for years. It ignores what the film does so well, and has the best Bond-villain relationship is the best since maybe Goldfinger. People have opened up to it more, especially with a lot more fans reading Fleming. The Florida section feels Miami Vice, sure, but the Felix maiming and warehouse action are almost page for page adaptations of Live and Let Die. Sanchez feels like a fleming creation, down to the subtle similarities between he and Bond's personal politics. Bond taking down Sanchez through distrust feels very Fleming, as does the climax where Bond is beaten half to death. His reaction when Sanchez dies fits the bill too. Oh yeah the soundtracks amazing too. The filmmaking itself has some issues (like they said a lot of it feels "cheaper" than past Bonds, prob due to budget constraints). Comes down to what people want from a Bond movie, and LTK stands out as very different from the pack.

[@ediesedgwick4462]

I love Diamonds Are Forever. It shows how even a supervillain like Blofeld has to rely on street level thugs to do the grunt work. We get to see the whole chain of command from the street to the top. Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd make particularly memorable characters. And the incidental music throughout the film is fantastic.

[@greatwuta]

Diamonds Are Forever 😭

[@ricardocantoral7672]

@Greg Elchert Not Thunderball. I would say On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

[@treadstone1970]

David Zaritsky, as you are always fond of saying, there are no bad James Bond films, only one's we like less than others.

[@greatwuta]

I disagree, there is one terrible Bond film 😂

[@prequeldefender]

@@greatwuta what is it

[@greatwuta]

@@prequeldefender Diamonds Are Forever

[@thestaffrockband]

Our entire family loves Joe Darlington, 95% of the time agree with Joe Darlington, and have been listening to him from the early days of his podcast - thanks for continuing to have him on so much

[@RolandHulme]

Kyle's comment about having the rifle from Q Branch in the boat is GENIUS. Literally Chekov's Gun. It would have made that scene so much more satisfying.

[@rocky-o]

'licence to kill' needs no defense...it is one of my favorite bond films, and it is in my top five....

[@fboness368]

QOS is totally underrated. It holds up after multiple viewings better than many of the “ popular” Bond films.

[@juanarches5793]

I’m glad Joe Darlington depend Octopusy convincingly. He say a lot on his review podcast. I’m equally Roger Moore and Daniel Craig fan, Octopusy is one the top 5 James Bond of Roger Moore that I don’t mind watching a lot.

[@simonfirth2018]

An interesting video concept, to defend the undefendable in a For and Against debate. Very well done. In a move that I hope does not reduce the sale of books to a mere trickle, my favourite Craig is Quantum. Every shot is beautifully framed, the music is sublime, Craig is at his best dressed, and then there is action. As Bond fans, we rewatch these films to death. Quantum to this day maintains in me an excitement that all other Bonds cannot provide. A Persistence of Vision may allow one to better understand the action, one can remember from previous viewings what is about to come, but one can still be excited by it. I will leave my thoughts to the other entries for another time. I do not wish to outstay my welcome.

[@adriansherlockdamondark.1094]

Man with the Golden Gun is a very nicely crafted film with plenty of suspense and fun. Moonraker is a bit long, but generally very good.

[@samuelbarber6177]

Octopussy is genuinely good. Don’t let the title mislead you.

[@Leppter]

Glad someone else liked Spectre, after my first watch I was so happy to have enjoyed an old school bond film. I also like QoS , infact I'd kinda rate all Craig films as equally 'above average' with none standing out that much either side. If i had to say my underdog pick, based on lists I have seen it would be 'For your eyes only'. It's easily top 3 for me and I never tire of it, love the locations, love the variety of action, love basically all the characters (except Bibi). Who would have thought slightly more serious Roger Moore was the winning formula.

[@jesseowenvillamor6348]

Hmmm ... I think Spectre is good when Hinx is still around. After they've reached Blofeld's base, that's the time it all goes downhill

[@robtucker7577]

Craig is at least attempting to be the cinematic James Bond it feels like a 007 movie It does have weak parts(brofeld)

[@williamcoolidge9884]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but, personally, I would rank Craig Bond movies with Casino Royale as the undisputed #1, and everything else is tied for #2. In other words, 1 movie is nearly perfect and everything else is pretty good.

[@dahan419]

Fun conversation. I agree with the production value issues with LTK. If only Lewis Gilbert and Guy Hamilton had continued making more bond films. They built the mold imo. My guilty fav is probably Moonraker. Seems that was underrated at the time but I thought it brought a sense of epic class even though it went a little over the edge with the slapstick at times.

[@Gundam_NeonOmen]

Need more of this style of series. Fantastic video I felt like I was one of the chums drinking and talking Bond. Brilliant video.

[@macchiathoR]

I like how Octopussy was discuss as a proper Espioage film (Cold War) unlike any other Bond films, which was a defence that I like the most!

[@fredericbourgeois-leblanc3578]

My underdog is definitely The World is not Enough. It is the most Fleming of the Pierce Brosnan era, he was the best in the role in this film and Sophie Marceau’s Elektra King is a powerful and emotional villain.

[@huskerjpg]

Quantum of Solace was cut like an MTV video. I didn't like it the first time I watched it. After that, I loved it.

[@basscot17]

Great defenses for each movie, enjoyable discussion. Thank you, gentlemen! For anyone interested in seeing Dalton play a slick mean bad boy: watch Framed! Dalton is the villain. It's a 4 episode long BBC drama from the early 90's. It's like watching him do a different version of Bond and shows how Dalton could be very charming and seductive if he so wanted . I think it proves he chose to play Bond as a everyman , where he could have chosen to play Bond more as a charismatic person, as he does in Framed.

[@anotherjamesbondpodcast0073]

In our spectre episode from a while back, I pitched the Q lap gun idea for the finale. I’ll assume Kyle was impressed with my concept lol! Kidding of course! Loved this one!

[@markjones2879]

Although Die Another Day has some very weak elements, and is not a favourite of mine by any stretch and I will not defend any of the negatives too much, one thing that is often missed is that DAD made huge sums of money at the box office. Considering it was the fourth film for Brosnan, not adjusting for inflation, Die Another Day was the highest-grossing James Bond film until the release of Casino Royale. It performed extremely well financially and also introduced younger viewers to Bond as it appealed more to an adolescent audience, hopefully many of them now sticking with the franchise. For all of its faults, it was the last time the forth movie for an actor in the series was released just three years after the previous effort! Brosnan had 4 films in 7 years after a six year gap form Dalton - Craig had five of variable quality in 15 years. The special effects get a lot of stick, especially the cringy surfing scene, yet at the time it was still considered difficult to create CGI fluid effects without massive budgets for the effects. The movie was produced at a time when the typical 90s action tropes were seen as dated, but the realistic feel of Bourne and Casino was yet to become mainstream. A lot of action genre movies of the early 2000s suffered from being made when the genre was changing very quickly: MI2, etc. tried to loose the 90s vibe but couldn't quite offer something that would stand the test of time against the harder edged movies that would follow. DAD is pretty dire I grant you, but it got people talking about the invisible car, it shook things up a bit for a forth film for Brosnan.

[@Robertbuccellatobooks]

Can’t agree more about the roger Moore clown scene. He is raging against a flood of soldiers, pushing him away from his objective. In his voice you hear fear, anger, frustration, and even pain. He’s going to end like his friend, he’s going to fail. It’s a very human moment for Moore. People focus on his costume, not his mannerisms. Any moment when it looks like failure for bond, when he throws his last bits of energy into the situation, in defiance of the probably outcome, is a compelling moment in my eyes

[@tylerjsmithers8385]

25:44 To that point, after Bond is brought to Sanchez's mansion (after the ninja sequence), Bond tells Sanchez that he used to be a British spy. So Sanchez knows about Bond being a secret agent...

[@marychocolatefairy]

I really like Octopussy and Quantum. I mean, the latter part of Octopussy is a ridiculously long series of chase scenes- that could have been cut down, like when he's trying to get to the circus and is getting stymied by annoying people. But the movie is a lot better than I thought it would be. I liked Q's involvement, both of the main ladies, the music, and the setting in India. Plus some great Moore/Bond scenes, like the Faberge bidding one. And I've just always really enjoyed QoS- it's actually my most viewed of Craig's films. The setting, M, Felix, the action, all fun.

[@1980redkremlin]

Great episode. Everyone fought their corner well. I already love Octopussy and LTK but still not totally on board with QOS and SP! My underdog might have to become TMWTGG. Living in SE Asia will do that. Shitload of abbreviations there.

[@patwaters-actormoviereviewer]

I am getting sick of people saying Licence To Kill is bad just because it’s inspired by Miami Vice, when clearly it wasn’t.

[@treadstone1970]

Have never gotten the Miami Vice influence myself regarding LTK. The movie is more of a copycat of the Joel Silver high octane action movies which were the more popular action films or the time.

[@joseprendes3056]

It’s a masterpiece. Love that film.

[@treadstone1970]

@@joseprendes3056 hardly a masterpiece but glad you enjoy it.

[@arthurlongshanks]

I think they're just talking about the production values.

[@shannonbayley3684]

@@treadstone1970 what's trash to some is treasure to others, and everything in between. I think Licence To Kill is up there with the very best of the Bond films. There is no right or wrong opinion. It's all subjective to the individual.

[@anonymanynomsen6034]

What i don't understand is why all the bond movies have not been released yet on 4k?

[@billlucas4675]

It's not considered canon but I would encourage any 007 movie viewer to give Never Say Never Again another shot. It hits all the marks and IMO Sir Sean's performance was far superior to his work in Diamonds Are Forever

[@orinanime]

Absolutely agreed

[@DafyddBrooks]

It is really good that you try and see some good in the BAD Bond movies and not just trash em. its a whole new perspective :)

[@williamwelch4846]

Licence to Kill is a top Bond and one of my favourites. I really think Octopussy and Quantum are underrated. Spectre is just bad. Brofeld? Come on! 🤮

[@83638ischia]

David, a fellow QoS lover here! So many classic Bond elements. Ranks high for me in the total canon and certainly strong in Craig’s very uneven tenure

[@joeyfiuza]

16:58 The reference used in Licence To Kill is not Rashomon, it is Yojimbo. 42:17 Love the face that Joe Darlington is making ! 😆

[@florantegalvez8498]

Great video discussion! I agree that it was a big miss not bringing back Hinx in NTTD. HE was one of the best henchmen in the series and one of the best elements of SPECTRE. What if Hinx did return in NTTD and he sacrificed himself instead of Bond?

[@richardconnold5207]

There's nothing "bad" about LICENCE TO KILL. It's a cold, hard-edged film, that is very true to the novels. Dalton is a fantastic Bond. Compared to the bloated SKYFALL, SPECTRE, and NO TIME TO DIE, QUANTUM OF SOLACE's sparse approach comes across as fresh, and innovative. I have come to like QOS more and more, over the years. That's why I eat the peppers 😀

[@prequeldefender]

No Time to Die is not bad except it went too woke in some places.

[@KimBailey-w2g]

@@prequeldefender oh, don’t forget that James left the daughter without a father really is that a good ending? Hell no

[@KimBailey-w2g]

Because I don’t care, I don’t like Craigs movies. They’re not good

[@skakirask]

I would consider Octopussy to be Moore's best or second best. Yeah, the gag humor is dumb but overall it was great to see Bond do some real spy work, and there are great action sequences. I think it would've been a perfect send off for Moore had he not done VTAK.

[@Dohsoda]

Octopussy is awesome...nuff said. I feel the most underrated Bond film is Tomorrow Never Dies. I think there are great aspects within that film and can often get overlooked. Its not perfect, but its a really solid good viewing experience.

[@samfisher2306]

Tomorrow Never Dies has arguably the best Bond opening imho. That terrorist market mayhem was crazy lol

[@dereklewis4321]

@@samfisher2306 The plot as aged like fine wine too.

[@audiobookgold6717]

@@dereklewis4321 nice point!!

[@audiobookgold6717]

@@samfisher2306 Once Bond blows up his lighter grenade, its total chaos as he races against the clock to hijack that plane

[@johnhansen1501]

Great discussion. I’m with Joe: the clown scene in Octopussy is a highlight in the series. Very intense. Reminds me of North By Nortwest when the police tells Cary Grant to be ashamed of himself after gw told themhe is dangerous killer. It is surreal, but makes sense in the story.

[@petermorrissey8497]

I grew up watching Sir Roger, I'm 42, but you could set your watch in UK for a film on Saturday night. I've actually met all 007s, Sir Roger was such a gentleman, Sir Sean gave me a bear hug, (I look scarily like him). Tim Dalton bought me and my best mate a drink, George I met at a book signing, Pierce in the same theatre bar as Tim, Dan, I've known for years.

[@matthewjay5483]

So I just divide the Bond films into 3 categories. The Gold Standard Bond films like FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, GE, CR & SF, The Average Bond films category, which I think most Bond films fall into with varying degrees. So if it weren't for certain things some films could have been Gold Standard or the opposite. The Not So Good Bond films category which I only consign DAF, VTAK, DAD, Q, SP & NTTD. Though I enjoy DAF, and parts of all the others. Even the not so good Bond films have some good things in them.

[@KalEl290]

I love your channel David, and this was a really fun, thoughtful, well moderated chat on an interesting topic. I may be the the only one who feels this way, but the not so subtle digs, to all out bashing toward NTTD in every second video is starting to become really off putting. It wasn’t one of the four to be discussed here, and somehow it got almost as many negative references as those films that were to be dinged. If you are aware how often you’re doing it and don’t care, that’s complete cool. But just in case it’s completely off the cuff, do know it is becoming a bit grating for this particular fan of that film. Otherwise, thanks for all the awesome hard work that you put into giving us such regular, top tier content. :)

[@adotgif]

I think the idea behind "Brofeld" was to quickly make the two arch enemies despite no longer having the previous shared history the two had from all their clashes in the original canon.

[@tcaudiobooks737]

Any writer who comes up with a "villain is related to the hero" twist needs ejecting from the writers room and kicking out of the industry once and for all. It was done once and done well with Darth and Luke and should've stopped there.

[@craigenger2782]

@DavidZaritsky. Your words, Direct quote, “…If I’m in the mood for a movie about James Bond…The Dalton ones! You can’t go wrong! Because you get James Bond….Served up on a platter...” Why? Because Dalton, great, consummate actor 1.) He read the Fleming books, understood the Character, and 2.) Is/was Easily 20+ Years ahead of his time.

[@alexandregingras6004]

My underdog is definitely A View To A Kill. -Best bond soundrack -Christopher Walken is a top vilain -The stable scenes are vintage Bond, where he does actual spy work and gets to meet the vilain and his henchpersons -I like an older bond in his leather jacket -I don't mind Stacey Sutton. As a kid, I got cold sweat during the fire/elevator shaft scene Another underdog I quite like is Diamonds Are Forever, but I can't really defend it with arguments.

[@remingtonsteele3581]

You are looking really good Joe, it looks like you have been training. Im happy to see you doing well.

[@davidmagalhaes2182]

MOONRAKER IS AWESOME. Great action movie, Great sifi, Great bond movie and best Roger Morre performance as bond. Unrealistic and camp? Yes, and that makes it even better. Not a guilty pleasure, just a pleasure.

[@playedout148]

There's definitely been more campy bond movies than Moonraker.

[@markjone671]

I have to agree with Joe on all the points he raised to defend Octopussy. Always loved Licence to Kill. I do disagree with it being compared to a TV movie as you just wouldn't get the same calibre of insane stunt work in a TV movie or TV show back in the 80's. I've never had any problem with Quantum of Solace. As far as the quick cut editing goes, I tend to compare the use of these processes to other films and if it isn't as distracting as it is in films like The Bourne series or Taken 3 or Aeon Flux then I tend to give it a pass. And I've never experienced any problem in following the action in Quantum of Solace. I actually think it is well framed enough to be able to tell what is going on. The number of quick cuts is annoying for some scenes but not others. Rather reminiscent of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, where you would have quick cuts for some action scenes but not others. I do think the battle at the climax of Quantum is the best choreographed action scene in the film. Far superior to the similar scene in SPECTRE, which is rather lethargic and unimaginative. Then there s SPECTRE. I just can't get into that film. It's just there. It feels disjointed and I don't find anything inspired or imaginative about it. It's the film that really introduced the story arc in Craig's era. You know it wasn't really planned out from the beginning. It feels tagged on and ill-conceived. Craig's final two films are way down at the bottom of my rankings list because of that unnecessary story arc. Loved his first three movies though.

[@anotherjamesbondpodcast0073]

We did an episode with Mr Being James Bond on Octopussy. I was not a fan of that film but after our conversation with Joe I really saw it in a different light. Kudos to Joe for bringing his A game in praise for this film 👍🏻

[@nihits]

I agree absolutely about the clown scene, its intense instead of being comedic, he even has to convince octopussy that despite his suit there could be a ticking clock which could even sabotage her jewellery smuggling operation but she goes with his trust.. and everyone is rewarded

[@user-si9fx4xb6v]

Licence To Kill for me is still a pretty strong movie if you have read the James Bond novels by Ian Fleming and understand what the filmmakers' intentions were in making the movie. Plus, the action scenes are really great, even better what I have seen in modern movies. It is unfortunate that it was released during a summer that had lots of other major movie squeals in it. Also, as many a Bond fan/ film scholar has noted the poor marketing hurt the movie as well.

[@jeffphillips1941]

I rate all these films high..great discussion !!! Very good points by everyone!!!! Totally agree with Kyle on Spectre!!👏 so nice to hear this from another fan of the franchise!

[@martindavies3772]

In licence to kill hasn't Bond altered his appearance slightly with his hairstyle in the casino scenes to make him look less identifiable to Sanchez and his henchmen ? They have crossed paths earlier in the movie , the pre title sequence for instance and the barrel head bar sequence ?

[@leedaero]

I just watched Specter again and I enjoyed it. It did seem like they were checking off the boxes- Carnival from Thunderball, train fight from From Russia with Love, etc. I really enjoyed the Bond interview by Madeleine. When Bond is tied to the chair they let him keep his watch!?

[@calebm553]

License To Kill has always been top 5 for me. I think people don’t like how different it is to the others. Daniel Craig era certainly helped people open their minds the film.

[@quantumofbond0073]

Great choices guys! And nice job defending your underdogs! If I had to choose one to defend its Tomorrow Never Dies. For me this is the most fun Bond film from Brosnan’s tenure. Not perfect by any means. But all the necessary elements are there. Locations, style, and ACTION! Oh my gosh the action! Kudos to Vic Armstrong and the stunt team! When I’m in the mood for some popcorn and a straightforward Bond action film, I’m reaching for TND!

[@audiobookgold6717]

I totally agree. I love tomorrow never dies. Its paced perfectly. There's never a dull moment for me. I used to feel confused why I watched this more than Goldeneye. But it seems there's some Bond fans in the same camp. It's just such a fun watch

[@tylerjsmithers8385]

One of my biggest gripes with Spectre (besides what was discussed) is that excluding the opening and the train fight, the action is pretty lackluster, especially the car chase...

[@RS-xb5br]

On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Scenery, style, girls the villains, especially for the Christmas vibe. Makes curling cool.

[@Abbas-Syed-Sb]

I like the points Kyle from easy smiles raised about Spectre. I now appreciate Spectre more

[@q.h.s5051]

Everyone knows about Daltons underrated gems and Moores but my favorite underrated Bond film is Diamonds Are Forever. I will never understand the distaste for that film. I love Connery, Charles Gray, the story, the soundtrack, and lots of the action. I understand coming from Majesty's makes it hard to compare but for me it's a nice transition. My head cannon is Bond spent his Honeymoon "Holiday" tracking down Blofield which turns out to be a decoy. I believe every Blofield in the film is in fact a decoy. FYEO shows the real him still injured. I do wish Laznby came back (Though Connery still did great for me) and I wish there was some more gun action in the film but as it stands, I still love the film very much. No nostalgia attached for me either as I had already seen Casino Royale, Skyfall, Brosnan's first three, and Connery's at the time. With all that competition and comparison especially now that I've seen every Bond film over three times each,, I still love it. Sadly I think I'll remain alone on my love for it

[@garybryant1501]

You're not alone it's a witty action adventure and I always thought of it as Bond does Derek Flint and I love the Flint movies and the Gunbarrel music is my favourite version of the whole series

[@chriswhite1417]

Great discussion guys. On a broader plotting point across the series, I feel like we've been pushed down the personal back story route in the Craig era by not rooting Bond in our current geo-political world (as it always did). Even a film as silly as MWTGG had the real-world energy crisis as context. Dare I say that this may be for fear of not wanting to offend a certain rising, potentially hostile geo-political power?

[@stephanerichard6267]

My choice would be the Man with the Golden Gun.

[@rymedogg]

For non UK folks the ‘SIT!’ gag in octopussy was a reference to Barbara Woodhouse, a famous 80's dog trainer/TV personality in the UK. Her catchphrase was ‘walkies’ and ‘SIT!’

[@treadstone1970]

That Barbara Woodhouse reference is just as cringing now as it was then.

[@blakemoon123]

Is ‘Live and Let Die’ an underdog film? Cos I like it. The New Orleans funeral, voodoo exotic look to it, great boat chase, the jumping the alligators thing, cool gadgets, Jane Seymour!, and a fantastic title song.

[@secretsymphony]

Is LTK really considered one of the worst movies by Bond fans? I know The Bond Experience fellow is not a fan, and wouldn't expect the Dalton movies to be popular with the general public, but I think LTK generally does well among those who know Bond...

[@joehahn9801]

I suppose Quantum is also my underdog film. It's my second favorite Craig film and I strongly prefer it to Skyfall. Definitely catch a lot of flak in the Bond community when I voice that very unpopular opinion.

[@katemara667]

I really like the more grounded universe that was set up in Casino and QOS. I wish they'd stuck with that instead of rebooting the story and going back to more cartoonish territory starting with Skyfall. All the story elements in QOS were better, despite the writers' strike.

[@marychocolatefairy]

I love it too, also above Skyfall. Just remind everyone that is was popular with fans when it came out, lol.

[@SharkWhosFondOfBond]

I love Quantum, it's top ten Bond films for me and also my second favourite Craig film, but Skyfall is just too amazing and fun in my opinion!

[@bengrenan8192]

My rankings from the 25 for these involved are as follows 4 - Octopussy 10 - Licence to Kill 22 - Spectre 23 - Quantum of Solace My underdog is Octopussy. Extra thoughts on from the video…Love the yo-yo buzzsaw bits, Bond and main ally moments, (as well as the action scenes, and jokes and quips). Q near the end too. Bond getting a standing ovation for stopping the bomb. I can go on and on. Anyways, LTK is the last of my rankings of ones I love and never hesitate to rewatch. I do recall though being a tad surprised Sanchez doesn’t realise who Bond is in any way. I remember in the cinema feeling angry during the PTS of Spectre when Bond has leaped in the helicopter, how not long after he’s going for the pilot who at that moment is flying it away (not being threatening), whilst the other bad guy still kinda is. By distracting the pilot early Bond himself is putting the lives of the scores of innocent people below at risk. He could’ve at least waited a bit before going for the pilot. With QOS, obviously mainly the editing. I don’t mind watching the movie that much. Not liking entries lower on my list much more, AVTAK, and DAD (last). I don’t really buy how the mole/snake is M’s special worker for over 30 years, or whatever it was. It was too much a silly typical movie moment that the traitor was someone who worked for her for decades. Then probably a worse scene than the car scene where it’s hard to know who’s in control, who is who often, in the quick edits of the grappling, hanging scene in the next shot between him and Bond. Wonderful video!

[@astrosleep9625]

My underdog film is A View To A Kill. It's a film I'll die on a hill for that film. It's very very enjoyable for a good time, has good a good score and good villains

[@erikdolnack2737]

For all its faults, I would still take "Spectre" over "No Time to Die" any day of the week. At the end of Spectre, I left the theater hoping for at least one more Daniel Craig Bond movie. At the end of No Time to Die, I don't want any more Daniel Craig Bond movies: I'm totally over Daniel Craig's Bond after No Time.

[@MikeVernonProd]

License to Kill is my favourite Bond film period

[@sortehuse]

My problem is that I don't know what Bond Movies that are considered Underdogs. Bond moves that have been criticised by some that I like a lot: You only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Live and Let Die, Licence to Kill and No Time to Die. I also think that Spectre is okay. I didn't like that Blofeld and Bond are Brothers, but I liked the movie overall.

[@dryfus423]

Moonraker would be mine. I get why it is disliked, but it just does a great job of embracing all of that and not apologizing for what it is. I do like License to Kill. I think it is legitimately good and might not even fit the "BAD" category.

[@gina7288]

Moonraker is our favourite even though it sometimes gets flack it as exotic locations, Jaws falling in love and the gritty space battle with me putting my hands over my ears lol.

[@finslaw]

This is the bottom 8 on IMDB in descending order along with my personal ranking: Licence to Kill #14, Tomorrow Never Dies #7, Diamonds Are Forever #25, Octopussy #12, The World is Not Enough #11, A View to a Kill #13, Moonraker #6 and Die Another Day #15. I think the bottom 10 on IMDB are possibly more fun than the top 10.

[@stg85]

In Licence to Killl, Bond told Sanchez that he "used to work for the British Government" after he got rescued. Sanchez must've thought he'd defected and therefore he mustn't have considered Bond a threat.

[@justinfournier8991]

Bond exploited Sanchez's weaknesses.

[@stg85]

@@justinfournier8991 I know. I was just making a point about when someone said Sanchez seemed to be the only one who didn't know Bond was a secret agent.

[@truthfilledtrajectorychant9200]

I think Quantum of Solace is a decent film. People often rank it with the worst ones but it’s not even near as bad as die another day, diamonds are forever, a view to a kill. It’s a middle tier bond film. It has great qualities amongst it’s flaws. It deserves reconsideration. They kind of missed the opportunity of expanding this mysterious group (quantum aka Spectre) into skyfall and then making it more believable by the time we get to Spectre. It was off to a good start that needed continuity through the rest of the films even if the editing choice was a Bourne copy, the movie needed more follow ups from here.

[@Atticus75]

Licence to Kill is a top 10 Bond film for me. Dalton the closest to Fleming's Bond, Sanchez one of my favourite villains, Pam perfect for Dalton. It has an excellent plot and climactic ending. Agree though there is no sense of style for Bond and is not as cinematic as other Bond films such as The Living Daylights or Goldeneye in that era. I enjoyed Octopussy watching it earlier this year, Spectre is too long and Quantum of Solace suffers from poor script due to writer's strike as well as the editing. QoS does have the best tactical and casual Bond outfits .

[@AndyG13GLA]

OP: It was up against Connery’s rehash of TB which didn’t have Barry’s exotic score. It had an age appropriate heroine in Maud Adams. It had Bond undercover in some fantastic locations. It took some great elements from the books. 8/10. LTK: It lacked Barry’s delicious music, but had a killer Bond Song with Gladys Knight & some memorable music cues from Kamen that stood out. Two gorgeous Bond Girls in Lowell & Soto, a brilliant villain in Sanchez supported by a believable henchman in Del Toro, the return of Heddison’s Leiter & again elements from books. I agree the film lacks Bond’s sartorial style, & Glen’s direction makes the scenes flat rather than exotic. 7/10. SP: Craig finally gets the girl but NOBODY likes the Brofeld storyline, or believe in the Swann romance. Finally we get a hark back to a decent henchman in Bautista, a glorious PTS that can’t be forgotten in its sheer scale & scope, & even a posthumous Dame Judi’s M. Lots of nods to the fans of both the books & movies, but fails to retrofit it all. However just as we think we’ve ditched Craig’s Emo Bond we get NTTD. So… 8/10. QOS: Has issues due to writing, direction & pacing but a solid basis for a storyline. Stunning Bond Girl in Kurylenko, but awful villain/henchman nowhere near the effectiveness of a Le Chiffre. Another waste (subsequently) of a rival to SPECTRE in QUANTUM which had all the right makings to be the best criminal organisation for a new era. They wasted all the great work in this film by absorbing it into SPECTRE in the later movie. One of David Arnold’s hauntingly ethereal scores & sadly another great loss afterwards. 7/10.

[@dannysummers4591]

Not a hated film, more of an underrated one, but I love Tomorrow Never Dies. This movie along with the N64 Goldeneye game which came out just few months earlier both made me a fan of the series, and some of my most fondest childhood memories was seeing it in the movies about five times with both family and friends, it was also my first time seeing a Bond film on the big screen. The story about a mass media empire trying to cause a war in order to print more stories was about twenty years ahead of its time, especially since it was before the social media age.

[@audiobookgold6717]

This is my most watched Brosnan film

[@finslaw]

Spectre is actually top 10 on IMDB. Along with No Time to Die at #4, I find those way too high. The teal/sepia look will make these age terribly too.