Arduino based Industrial PLC - Intro and Teardown

[@crocellian2972]

Fantastic amount of actual detail without all the typical bashing of foreign manufacturers we hear from the usual reviewers. Thank you.

[@wilvanlierop]

This is an excellent video! Finally, an opportunity to fill a very much wanted niche, an open source PLC in the otherwise very much closed market with prop. drivers, prop IDE and lots of protection mechanism's. Sure, some hardware is cheaper, but the vendor lock-in would exponentially add up to the total cost of your project. Keep up the good work. Very much appreciated.

[@TheBreadboardca]

+pd4z Yes, the open development environment will attract everything from a new developer with experience with Arduino IDE through to an embedded systems engineer using Atmel Studio to create the more critical applications. by leveraging an open and very well supported platform it will encourage a whole new generation of engineers (Software) that do not need to be constrained by proprietary or legacy development tools, although I would not be supprized to find a graphical relay ladder / PLC IDE if I looked hard enough for the ATMEGA Processors. There is nothing wrong with the old school Alen Bradly / Omron / Westinghouse development tools, they are very reliable and proven in the industry but they where developed to be usable by engineers that where creating control systems literally with physical Relays and the like (This is why many of the progrms are called relay ladder logic, it is exactly how the older physical relay systems where designed and documented... I was there), yes it has evolved from there but that is its roots. I know because one of my first ever jobs was to replace older physical relay panels with the NEW and Advanced PLC's back in the late 70's / early 80's. There is a whole new generation of potential control engineers that do not need to be constrained by such concepts. It still helps to understand then though and it will be arround for a long time to come. but I prefer the new approach for its flexability, none propriatary and open architecture but with the physical interfacing mostly taken care of.

[@TheBreadboardca]

It seems alot of manufacturers are doing the same now... have to compete i guess

[@dLLund]

thank you for posting. things have changed a lot since i first programmed a modicon micro84, back in the day. the programmer was a stone tablet, w/ a small chisel :) .

[@walterp7125]

This is a good project . To build a plc is my dream but at the moment I just program commercial plc. Very good!

[@Industrial-Shields]

Great explanation Peter! Peter great explanation. A good exploration and description of the different parts. :)

[@MrRadioAct]

The 'CE' mark is not currently recognized in Canada or the United States as an approved regulatory marking for an industrial PLC system such as these. Unless there is a CSA/UL/RU/etc marking with the 'c' and/or 'us' designations you will run into trouble when trying to get a field certification on your installed PLC system. Don't ask me why 'CE' is not accepted in north america as the requirements are generally more stringent then a CSA/UL mark but I would bet it has a lot to do with someone in north america not getting their share of $$$.

[@wolvenar]

Tyler Hopaluk Very likely right. Seems its very much like the electrical unions who also want thier cut of any monies they can.

[@kanggye-won8854]

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[@willysnowman]

My opinion is the regulations are used as an alternative to tariffs. Raise your standards to prevent crap products being dumped in your country. This does force native companies to build better products. This has worked very well for Germany with TUV. They have a very skilled unionized work force which produces first class products. You can get a UL mark now from labs in China. Always do UL testing last, as they will accept testing certs from the other agencies.

[@L98fiero]

No, the difference between North America standards and CE is in the way it's organized, CE is self regulating in that you can make a product and say it's approved and there is no checking except be others in the industry or when an accident happens. In NA a product goes to an inspection agency, at least that's how my field inspector explained it.

[@saintpine]

My two cents. There is no way that wires can vibrate loose from a spring connector, in my experience it's more likely they could vibrate loose from a screw connector. in fact some plant maintenance tighten all the screws once every 2 of 3 years. From about 1990 to 2005, Hartmann & Braun from Germany, a supplier of the DCS (large scale PLC's) System Contronic P used spring connectors for all the field I/O. I've worked for over 15 years with these systems used in power stations and factories, with over 2500 I/O and I've never had a problem of wires coming loose. the main issue is getting the wire out when you need it. Hartmann & Braun has been taken over by ABB in 1999. Today ABB sells many PLC and DCS products that can be purchased with the spring connectors instead of screw connectors. All the high end PLC and DCS use optical isolation between field connections electronics and internal electronics, all HW can undergo dielectric strength tests of 500V for up to 48Vdc inputs and outputs and 1500V for 220V circuits.

[@juanmestradav]

Thanks you for taking the time to do this great video

[@TheBreadboardca]

your welcome

[@cesarnavas3796]

Thanks very much. This is very helpful, but where can I see the Software Video (part 2). I can`t seem to find it. Thanks in advanced.

[@jix177]

Great review. Looking forward to the next part. Thanks.

[@JacekBorecki]

Hi, if you want to build an Open Source Hardware based CNC I would suggest You to check Smoothieboard - I'm planning to use it instead of my current solution that is LinuxCNC on PC. It is also easy to extend functionality of the board with SPI, I2C or GPIOs.

[@imranshaha5933]

Great video but you should Show how to programme arduino plc.is their any way to programme arduino using ladder language?

[@dj1encore]

where is the coding video ?

[@neilclay5835]

Thanks. Very interesting. And they'll save me a heap of time. Your video gave me unintentional ASMR as an added benefit xD

[@TheBreadboardca]

your welcome... i think :)

[@neilclay5835]

@@TheBreadboardca Haha. Yep. Not that weird actually - just a form of relaxation brought on by certain sounds. Tapping and snapping sounds most commonly.

[@hilarylatham3917]

I think that unless the language is IEC 61131-3 compatible, these are going to struggle against the established PLC architectures.

[@babunandha7955]

Suggesting to make modular structure, instead of keeping DI, DO, Relay in one box, separate module for each type of I/O would be better to IO SEGREGATION

[@johnnycanuck6923]

You mention CE Mark , so this equipment could be used in Canada, However CE mark is not recognized in Canada. FYI

[@adisimanjuntak1283]

Peter, great video, buat what was in my mind that Is it reliable enough for industrial used? I mean protected from electromechanical induction that caused arduino get crash

[@phillipmaser132]

To be +24 VDC it must go through something , in order to compliant, Most boards are 5 vdc in. Does it have PID control and RS485 technology. I need R Ladder because more than one person will be programming... it.

[@TheBreadboardca]

The Arduino is a standard one. The main board contains a DC to DC convertor to efficiently convert the 24V to a suitable voltage for the Arduino. As it is an Arduino it can run one of the many PID library available for arduino. and finally yes it does have an RS485 interface built onto the main board so it can communicate over a standard arduino serial but with RS485 levels. I guess it would be simply programmed as with any Serial() command. I have never tried R Ladder on the Arduino but if there is a library for it then there is no reason it won't work that I am aware of

[@laurafaresin6575]

have you got the schematics? I'm not able to reache D5 and D6 arduino pins

[@TheBreadboardca]

I dont but if there available then you should be able to download from the manufacturer. they have quite an extensive library of info available

[@47lokeshkumar74]

Nice bro

[@mosaictech]

Great video and great explanation.. Many thanks.

[@nikfrost724]

how difficult would it be to run 400v pumps with this? great video btw!

[@TheBreadboardca]

Quite easy, you will need a contactor to control the 400V though

[@jwiley80]

Peter, great video and rundown. Am I missing something, or did you not post the follow-up programming video?

[@Duhhx1]

is there a way to connect a 380v dc fan (large greenhouse fan) to this board please ?

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Co Chrigui Can you confirm your talking about 380V DC, thats some pretty high volts for a FAN motor unless it is massive. What is the power / current draw of the motor ? On the assumption it is 380V, I would also assume it may be 5 or 10 Amps. I would suggest adding a secondary relay more able to handle that power and the potential arcing when the motor is turned off etc

[@Duhhx1]

+Peter Oakes (TheBreadboard) thanks for your reply, yes the fan is commercial grade here: wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/HY-greenhouse-glass-fiber-reinforced-plastics_60203556644.html and i purchased UNIpi board unipi.technology but i am struggling to understand the wiring thats why i am thinking of a more well documented relay board/plc.

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Co Chrigui Looks like it is 380V AC not DC based on its size and the fact it is not saying DC, basically if you look up controlling an AC motor using solid state relays or contactors you should get your answer, I would email the company and confirm the supply requirements though

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Co Chrigui once you have the confirmed details for the fan, you would do well to post the question here www.element14.com/community/message/168926/l/re-have-a-question-about-solid-state-relays-and-their-applications-ask-me#168926 this is a very well supported community

[@Duhhx1]

+Peter Oakes (TheBreadboard) thank you I will draw a diagram and start a discussion in there.

[@phillipmaser132]

Is there a way to hook this to the Raspberry PI 3 through the USB port for internet access. How does the Raspberry PI USB ports work? There must be a layer allowing it to be a host. Will this host identify non keyboard and mouse devices or is there a driver that would have to be added?

[@TheBreadboardca]

It should show up to the PI as a standard USB com device. You would then use a simple program to on the pI to interface between the Com port and the network connection of the PI Note that the Bigger of the two Industrial Shields devices already has an ethernet built into it. You can if i remember correctly interface a SPI chip through the connections outside the unit to a SPI based ethernet adapter if you so wanted to. This could eliminate the PI if it was serving no purpose except providing internet access.

[@gtothepowerof6]

Nice review of the product.

[@5h44my]

Hi Peter, its not my field by as a hobbyist I am very much interested in PLCs. In fact I have already bought this after watching your video but now I don't know how and where to begin. Can you guide me please! I want to basically use this to control my CNC router I am planing to build. Any help will be much appreciated

[@TheBreadboardca]

+shumail riaz please provide some info on your router and ill see how I can help... btw, I have one here I use as a tutorial platform and it is currently using an Arduino as the GRBL controller www.openbuilds.com/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/

[@5h44my]

+Peter Oakes, I have a 3D CAD of my design, if you want I can share. Basically I bought this 3 Axis NEMA34 CNC kit from China and it came with this breakout board. I am sure it will work but I was hoping to use this PLC Shield instead or along with this breakout board. I am also planing to replace these steppers with Teknic's Clearpath servos of NEMA34 size.

[@TheBreadboardca]

+shumail riaz if you use a Arduino type board then you don't need the breakout board, the Arduino can talk directly to the stepper controllers. Now the Industrial Shields board should be able to handle much of your control needs but what software are you planning to use with it. GRBL Controller has specific pins it needs in order to keep the timing right and these don't map out easily on the Industrial Shields units Those Teknic's servos are nice upgrades but at 250$ each, a little expensive and depending on what your going to cut, may be overkill considering you have Nema 34's already. Having said that, I would love to have some myself and you won't regret it. One word of caution though, on the Z axis, if you lose power, the axis may not be able to hold itself in position. I have not experienced this, only heard about it

[@5h44my]

The software I will be using is Mach3 of course and the material I am interested to cut is everything but steel, so I am talking about wood, plastic, Acrylic, Aluminum and Brass. The cutting area is 2000*900*200mm so I believe its not a overkill. The steppers I have are 1600oz.in but i believe this is in ideal condition, anyway after microstepping on 5mm pitch ballscrews, these steppers will be producing around 700oz.in. That word of caution is very important. I never realized that these servos don't have brakes and may cause problem on Z axis in case lose power. Thank you for the heads up, so I guess I have to use a stepper there or a servo with a brake. So, basically can i use this shield at all? Can I use other than GRBL that maps out easily with this shield?

[@MC_AU]

Also take a look at www SL4P net - for a 3G SMS based programmable controller...

[@phanmemungdungappbienhoa6092]

How much is it?

[@imranshaha5933]

I want to make plc for home automation please help me.

[@TheBreadboardca]

what is your budget, and are you wanting to build or buy

[@mandelbro777]

for home automation just use Arduino with relays and sensor modules, etc ... Just as easy to learn imo as PLC, but far more flexible and cheap ... imo

[@PasanKarunanayake]

The construction level is very impressive but with arduino platform i just don't trust those. It would be nice to use those without arduino IDE.

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Pasan Karunanayake You can program then with Visual Studio or Atmel Studio using native C if you want. there is nothing saying you have to use the Arduino IDE

[@PasanKarunanayake]

+Peter Oakes (TheBreadboardca) Hi, yes agreed. This PLC is pretty cool because its arduino. But without arduino platform there are other competitive products which is more user friendly right... Like TriPLC.

[@ffoska]

the arduino IDE is a glorified text editor, makes no difference if you use it, or any other IDE, the compiler is the key, or rather the AVR-GCC toolchain, which could be buggy, but probably not more buggy than some closed source plc firmware. Basically if it compiles and flashes, it will work perfectly, doesn't matter what is used to write it

[@PasanKarunanayake]

@@ffoska Yes agreed, I've posted the above comment 5 years ago. I do have simple data logger modules running at 24x7 in an industrial environment for few years continuously which written on arduino IDE. So do have pretty good confidence.

[@Michael-Sasser]

For that price, you get a used Siemens S7-300 CPU including a bunch of I/O-modules and a SITOP power (PSU).

[@TheBreadboardca]

you fail to mention the cost of appropriate software to even make it work, this can be significant, With this and many of the newer open source based PLC, the programming side is free or very low cost. Having said that, if you are in an environment were you have already invested in the infrastructure then it makes sense to stay with it unless you have a good reason not to.

[@aussiegruber86]

I went with the koyo click plc series, purely as the software was free and I couldn't learn Arduino C fast enough for my last project

[@llary]

I have been experimenting with an M-Duino RR50 which cost around $400 from RS including Ethernet, 16 relays and a lot of other IO. Simatic system would be somewhat more expensive than this if you need Ethernet and large number of IO ports. For me a big disadvantage of these Industrial Shields units is a lack of plug and play thermocouple boards. It's a pain getting lots of temperature sensors into these things and I ended up falling back to analog signal converters. I tried suggesting that to boot and work but they never replied. Apart from that I love working with these units and we plan to use them in production machines.

[@llary]

@@aussiegruber86 I have used Koyo Direct logic systems before, I'm not a big fan of the software.

[@mrlazda]

Very interesting shields, but with couple flaws. They cost like industry PLC from companies like Allen-Bradley or Siemens (with comparable characteristics) and probably biggest flaw is that they are intended to be used with Arduino IDE, which is not great solution for any serious use and especially for industry where its compiler do not support support MISRA (MISRA C) conformance, but that can be fixed by ditching Arduino IDE and using some more suitable compiler (you will lose ease of Arduino IDE, if there is one, but on other hand you will gain in every other aspect).

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Miloš Lazović While I do not have access to the MISRA C set of software development guidelines (You have to buy your way into get it), It is plausable that with the right compiler switches and coding practices, even the Arduino IDE may be able to create complient code. Software development guidelines are primaraly aimed at the developer and how he or she creates the code (Naming patterns, Code Complexity, avoiding known flaws in the compiler / runtime etc.). The Arduino IDE is just a wrapper on top of a C compiler. Now if it can not be acheived this way then I would agree that the coder will have to adopt alternate methods and the most obvious would be using Atmel Studio 7, this is based on Microsoft Visual Studio and C Compiler so should be able to be used to create compliant code. Not all situations will require MISRA complient code , this will depend on the solution being created and what environment it will be running in As for price, I performed a simple parametric search on RS web site and given the criteria it does come ut at the lower end price wise uk.rs-online.com/web/c/automation-control-gear/plcs-hmi-data-acquisition/plc-cpus/?searchTerm=PLC#esid=4294958751&applied-dimensions=4293359585,4294295522,4294298606,4294522142,4294569477,4294570297,4294570326,4294586250&sort-by=P_salesUnitData&sort-order=desc yes there are cheaper units available but these are often limited in the functional design blocks available to them and you have to "UpGrade to get access to more advanced logic / math functions, a typical example is the Barth STG600, an excelent unit for its price but limited in what can be coded for it (No Log function for instance) At the end of the day, it is always a compramise between cost, flexability and reliability, the more flexable the unit is in what it will allow you to code, the potential for less reliable creaps in which is why standards like MISRA where created, to help the developer. At the end of the day, I can not answer if the arduino IDE can be used to create MISRA complient code. the Engineering teams responsible for designing their solutions would be responsible for selecting the right products and development environment to meet the standards required for the target use.

[@mrlazda]

Peter Oakes Arduino software is basically in violation of every MISRA rule, same as all GCC extension (or any other compiler extensions). You can write MISRA conformance code in GCC (avr-gcc in case you use Atmel Studio) and use some free MISRA checker (I heard there is many good ones available on internet) but without GCC extensions. But again if you do profesional work there is no big deal to buy some better compiler (for avr as I know only IAR do MISRA checking natively, and it is relatively expensive, but it worth money). I was checking prices on Industrial Shields site, and they are in range from 135€ to 320€ ( I am better with € and $ then with £ and they are lower then from RS for example 320€ model is £336 on RS), that make it territory of Allen-Bradley Micro800 series (last time I checked it start with less then 100$) or even low cost Siemens SIMATIC S7. What someone will pick is what someone need or prefer (price, quality and capabilities is near same). I would prefer solution based on Arduino hardware (which I think is great idea), and traditional C (C++) which make smaller and faster machine code, but not on Arduino software (which I think is big mistake) over some traditional solution based on traditional PLC and ladder logic (state logic, or some dialects of BASIC and C which are used for traditional PLC). Again you made very informative video, which presents great interesting and useful product. Keep good work as you did till now. Little digression, it would be interesting to see you combine DAC8734 and your Modular Bench Power System in one system (I think they would be great combination) controled with Pi (ability to remote controll it), which would make great PSU with ability to automate experimets using matlab or similar software).

[@albertprietomale]

+Miloš Lazović The problem The problem is not the cost. The comparation is not with same kind of products. I used Logo PLC (siemens) and Zen (omron) a lot of time, and both are great products. but limited with Input/output. Of course, you can purchase an expansion module. But then the product cost around 250€ - 300€. This products have not Ethernet, RS485, rs232 I2c...etc. They are different products with more private environments.. May be all the users with Siemens, Omron can (or want) not use Arduino products and Arduino IDE as a development software. but at least some users can use it for industrial application. I think is good for industry have different options. Differents products for differents uses

[@mrlazda]

Albert Prieto Malé This is not industrial product, this is more for home automation, and it have not so more I/O then Allen-Bradley Micro810 (at low end), 135€ model have 20 I/O and Micro810 have 12 but cost less then 85€. I don't argue that this can not be used for some "industrial" application, but still this have many issues (not due hardware except maybe ethernet port which is missing transformer isolation, but most are due choice of Arduino IDE as development environment which is in best case unpredictable in code generation).

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Miloš Lazović I am not sure where you are getting the information regarding the ethernet port but it is incorrect. The Transformers are built into the connector along with the LEDS. the part is a HanRun HR911105A, clearly visable in the video and here is the datasheet www.kosmodrom.com.ua/pdf/HR911105A.pdf The PDF not only shows the transformers but also chokes and 75ohm termination resistors. As for the development environment (Arduino IDE), this is easily improved by using the free Atmel Studio 6 which is a full Microsoft Visual Studio. For Home use and hobby work, the Arduino IDE should be more than sufficient for most uses. For more serious and critical applications, the developer can turn to the native tools like Atmel Studio

[@ronpearson1912]

Is it possible to down load a version of ladder logic, function block, and structured text to use to program these arduino PLC's. I am asking because employers require this language (I only know matlab and visual basic). Thank you

[@TheBreadboardca]

something like this you mean soapboxautomation.com/snap/program-an-arduino-uno-or-nano-in-ladder-logic/ Have fun

[@ronpearson1912]

Huh, I downloaded it and it does not seem to work. Thank you for taking the time to post it though.

[@TheBreadboardca]

Interesting, I have not tried it yet, just did some google work and found what looked like should be a good fit. Sorry about that

[@ronpearson1912]

Never mind I had to install another driver, it works now.

[@TheBreadboardca]

Good to hear

[@imranshaha5933]

I got one android app for arduino programming using ladder language. Search on play store.

[@snagendran9741]

we want price list, i am a indian .

[@TheBreadboardca]

Do u mean you live in India or you are a native American Indian. In which case were do you live ?

[@TheBreadboardca]

in.rsdelivers.com/productlist/search?query=Industrial%20Shields

[@superezbz]

You and I look like we could be brothers.

[@AlexLPD]

Very Interesting video, as an opinion, you could add markers to specific parts of the video, like; min 5.00 Power Source, Min 10; ADC. So any one lookinf for something specific of the video can reach it more fast. Thanks for the video!

[@TheBreadboardca]

I will consider that for future videos, thanks

[@vishalhindustanelectronics1338]

very good amazing, can you send me one set of this

[@TheBreadboardca]

I only have my demo units... sorry, but they are available from Industrial Shields direct or RS-Components in the links in the description

[@phillipmaser132]

The pi is handling a control system math model from matlab. very nice, has internet plus usb ports to port to calibrated keithley meters. usb ports are not seeing keithley meters. the problem with high level languages. you have limits. but to build a pi from scratch is very costly. if the pi had industrial ports like aurdino. including analog digital converters. A/D i need are +/- 10 vdc and +/- 4 to 20 ma. complicated project. isolated would be a dream. Very challenging project.

[@TheBreadboardca]

Have you thought about Firmata, this is a combination of Arduino and PI, The Arduino is a slave to the PI, Kind of an IO extension, the nice thing is programs like Labview (And perhaps MatLab) can talk to it natively and it is very well supported from what I understand.

[@phillipmaser132]

i will check into this.....thanks for all your videos and knowledge input.

[@avtavt4300]

Reasons why Arduino is not for industrial automation 1. When you made a software change and load it to a PLC, it will not stop/reset the PLC, but keeps running. The Arduino on the otherhand will always reset for loading the programm, so production stops, that's unacceptable. 2. Arduino is not a safety controller, so no SIL3/PLe. 3. No safety protocoll like Profinet or CIP safety. 4. Arduino analogue outputs are voltage pwm, no 4-20 mA. There are converters, but in industrial environment you don't want extra components for work around. This will lower MTBF of your total project. 5. Arduino IDE has no position CAM profile generator, no gsd/eds-file import. I never saw a projects with like 10 servo's controlled by one or more virtual servo master(s). 6. Arduino IDE has top-down programming, so no easy programming with different time/event-tasks, no easy online right-click on variable to force I/O. 7. Arduino main-board with ethernet RJ45 only, no M12 connector, so bad in shock/vibration specs. No dual ethernet card for ring configuration with fail-over. And what if you want many ethernetcards, like seperate ones for SCADA, remote I/O, OP's, drives.... 8. In industrial automation you want (the most of) your components from one reliable supplier, with a 24/7 support contract by email, phone or even on-site.

[@TheBreadboardca]

While I agree that "Un Planned" outages are a problem, there will always be an issue even with "Proper" Industrial PLC software during updates, adjusting a parameter while live is one thing, changing the firmware is another and should never be done on a live system without full understanding of the consequences. Most PLCs will effectively reset, when new firmware is loaded, they have to, what probably does not happen is that all the IO suddenly goes to an undetermined state or all the operating parameters get erased etc. just adding a few lines of additional relay ladder logic for example moves the code arround in memory, it would be real bad if the process was not reset to cleanly allow the new version to take control, rather than simply run into the new code (REAL BAD IDEA). Most systems tend to use a dual memory technique where the new code is loaded into a separate memory area and then cleanly switched to thereby minimizing the window of outage A basic standard arduino upload indeed stops the cpu, puts it into programming mode and writes the new firmware over the old, so a bigger outage and more importantly, no fall back in the case of a fail to upload. this is not the only way though. There are other techniques available (OTA for example) where firmware is uploaded in the background, once it it loaded and verified, is then switched to, if there is a problem, the old is still there to switch back to if needed This is available for Arduino (More specifically AVR processors as Arduino is more the environment rather than the hardware) but has also been arround for ages on things like ESP8266. In summary, Arduino is not the issue here, bad programming practices and procedures is. An Arduino IDE can be used to code the new software but then compiled to a hex file ready for uploading and enabling at a time of the engineers choosing and by what ever method has been designed into the system

[@avtavt4300]

I'm talking about a 'simple' code-software change/update, not firmware. I can't imagine that if i'm commisioning a factory-machine-line and products que up because of an software bug (yep realy bad programming ;) ), or overnight they implemented a new stop-valve or something without telling me (yep that happens), that I can't change that online without resetting the machine. With a 'real' plc I fix the bug, or add the stop-valve into the programm or whatever. Then compile it and load it into the PLC and production can continue, most of the times even a process half on its way on a product can continue to not waste it. It loads the new software part and with the next plc cycle it deletes the old part to free up the memory, what is fair enough and not like you wrote 'a real bad idea'. At the end of production test or planned maintenance when the machine is empty, you load the file 'clean' into the plc. With Arduino all the actual local data of product-status and more of products that are on the production-line are lost with a code-software load. So then you have to remove all the products on the production-line or manually enter the data. Don't want to do that! And what about points 2,3,4,...... p.s. at point 3: profinet --> profisafe Then also at the end of your video you place the shield's together and then stuffing those I/O connection wires into the case, realy? Branded plc's have a fast backplane communication bus, let's not start about the ic2-bus ;). Then place your assambled shields on the din-rail in your e-cabinet. Now I just want to change the dip-switch settings or swap I/O cables, but they are on the bottom and top of the shield-case (only the led indicators at the front), how do you want to easy access that, because in allmost every e-cabinet there are cable-trays above and underneath? Also for PNOZ you need a seperate/stand-alone system, because it is not supported by Arduino. So no integration into the plc like it is done now those days. Grts..... p.s. Arduino is fun for home/test/school-instuction projects, So at home with my kids I use Arduino, with work I rely on the 'real' industrial plc's ;) Oh, also now those days also ladder programming get's less and ST-language is mostly done (that's what I see).

[@meetthefloccers8112]

Good write up on NOT using these products in industrial applications. My comment would be where is the watchdog timer? No watchdog no good, period.

[@rajesha980]

Nice...

[@gadget_hack]

What is an industrial PLC

[@Fritzenlab_blog]

It is a Programmable Logic Controller capable of withstanding ("sirviving") industrial noise, temperature and general harsh.

[@jeremyadair5780]

It is a controller used to make industrial machines. Plcs are often simpler but there are dcs (distributed control systems) that are more complicated. Industrial controls are supposed to be troubleshot quickly, prorammed quickly and last for a long time. In north america allen bradley is king. On europe siemens plcs are king and in japan there is mitsibishi. These plcs can be programmed while a machine is running and they stand the test of time. Most of all the product lines still have support. I can call allen bradley for troubleshooting a 50 year old plc 5 and i will have tech support and engineers to help. The downside is the controls cost 4000 a year for 1 seat. This video is not of a plc. In 5 years their website and support will not exsist. They are competing with 50 year old industrial giants who make outstanding products at a high price.... these plcs cost 1000s because you can wake a distributer up at 1 am and get one delivered to the plant, you have 24 hour phone support and if it stops it should run again in a few hours. This product is a microcontroller not a plc.

[@TheBreadboardca]

Most PLC's these days are based on a micro-controller inside, even the really expensive ones, some may be using a microprocessor and have more advanced functionality. They just have proprietary software and development tools and a big price tag. PLC's come from the days when control logic was implemented literally with Relays of various sorts on a big panel and once wired would perform a pre-set (Wired) of logic or they were using discrete logic wired to perform the equivalent task. The point here is that they were fixed in function unless you were willing to re-wire them with the introductions of microprocessors in the early 70's it became possible to "Program" the logic in software and in order to make it easy for the "Relay Wiring" engineers, the programming interface was created to resemble the paper schematics of the relay control panels. Hence "Relay Ladder Logic" became a very popular programming paradigm. Over time easier and richer programming interfaces have been developed by vendors and yes, there very good except for two key points (Or 3) COST PROPRIETARY NOT CROSS VENDOR So if you bought into Westinghouse you kinda was stuck there, same if Siemens or Omron or other vendor Now to address the 24/7 support, yes you can get it and at a hefty cost too. alternatively with the relatively LOW cost of newer open solutions it is simple and cheap to keep spares locally in the maintenance office or even in the rack At the end of the day, it comes down to where you're applying the controller, certain areas require extensive certifications and reliability guarantees to be allowed for use (Aerospace, Rail, Automotive for instance). Others do not Being an open system where you can select modules from a number of different vendors or Software authors is not an issue for many scenarios. The issue is more the lack of rigorous testing needed to ensure reliability and just like when Windows Servers turned the Administrator Role to dust because everyone thought they could do it, the same applies here. Sure loads of folks can make things work. Not everyone can make them reliable 24/7. that almost always requires training and experience.

[@SteelBlueVision]

Saw the prices on their web site - immediately lost interest.

[@llary]

It's cheap for industrial gear

[@joshuagraham697]

Automation Direct sells cheaper PLCs.

[@TheBreadboardca]

Perhaps, but cheaper is not always best, you need to consider support, Future, robustness and fitness for purpose to name just a few. Many of the systems I review have very good support systems and communities n place, this is a good thing for long term return on investment etc.

[@aussiegruber86]

I actually have installed 2 x direct automation (Australian supplier for automation direct) systems now and had great success and free technical support is provided for all sold products

[@joshuagraham697]

@@TheBreadboardca Automation Direct will have better support and reliability then some one off arduino based PLC. I've got boxes of dead arduino boards in my basement. They aren't very "robust". Automation Direct may be the Harbor Freight of automation. But at least they're an established business. This arduino based PLC is like buying your tools at a garage sale.

[@TheBreadboardca]

@@joshuagraham697 No so, in my opinion... You have to bear in mind, an Arduino (A real one designed for experimentation) is an ATMEGA 328P typically and is a very capable micro-controller, when used on an arduino board, there is no protection from user errors, this leads to chip destruction is some way, sometimes letting out the magic smoke. The Industrial Shields (And most others I have reviewed are nothing like this, sure you can program with the same IDE if you want (Arduino IDE) but there are other options like Visual Studio, the difference is that these PLC's have all the industrial protection chips and devices between the IO and the ATMEGA, protecting it from all but the worst of user errors or environmental issues. It is grossly unfair to judge an industrial PLC to an educational device that are designed for completly different purposes and environments simply on the basis they use the same core controller. This same scenario is existing for many manufacturers including TI, Microchip, NXP, etc etc, you can get development boards for all of these, you can also get industrial devices based on the same chip but people to not make the same claims that they are not fit for the purpose. the only difference is that Arduino has become synonymous with the ATMEGA 328 etc.

[@joshuagraham697]

@@TheBreadboardca I still wouldn't pay more than $200 for an arduino board in a plastic box when an automation direct PLC would cost about the same.

[@ansari.manzur]

T

[@bertagliacristian]

h

[@jpalm32]

Too costly! Don't see why you would use this instead of established companies

[@TheBreadboardca]

+jpalm32 I think and this is just my opinion, it depends on the skill set of your workforce implementing the solution. if you have implementers skilled in relay ladder or have a strong install of "Alen Bradly" for instance, then it makes sense to stick with it. If you have a new breed of developers and no existing infrastructure or reason to lock into a specefic vendor then you should choose the best product for the job,

[@slrucom]

This is worst thing for industrial PCLs

[@TheBreadboardca]

+Александр Луцай Please explain ??

[@felaflame]

Probably he tought, that this is a great competitor for commercial PLCs

[@michaelsomers9621]

fradulant

[@TheBreadboardca]

Please explain...... as you comment makes absolutely no sense