Was Saruman Always Truly Evil? | The Lord of the Rings Lore

[@TheBrokenSword]

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[@Randy.Bobandy]

no

[@lisboah]

What surprises me the most is how the concept of Greed is connected to Aule in Tolkien lore. Aule created the Dwarves, a race who is well-known for their greed. His most well-known servants were Mairon and Curumo, who would later be known as Sauron and Saruman, who also fell due to greed.

[@TheBrokenSword]

We have this idea for a future video to delve more into it 😁

[@MessDawn]

i agree, it is noteworthy. is it because he is training the smiths who go on to look for answrs and knowledge to expand their skills? i dont know, but even outside Aule, you have feanor, who was the greatest smith and also cause of a fall. and then celebrimbor, who let annatar in, to gain knowledge.

[@lisboah]

@@MessDawn Though their greed wasn't connected with self-improvement, and more like them seeking to dominate those they deemed as below them. Greed in the sense of seeking to improve oneself can be seen as a good thing. But they instead wanted to rule everything around them.

[@paulbarbat1926]

Except, Aule himself was not greedy at all. It is said in Silm he delightfully parted with his creations for the enjoyment of others. He was impatient and looked to achieve too much of the Plan too soon, but he humbled himself and accepted to wait. It COULD be said greed is a consequence from unchecked competence and lack of fear (in the biblical sense, as we deal with interactions with God), as Mairon and Saruman lost their fear of Eru, Mairon when seduced by Melkor and Saruman after time in Middle-Earth, resentment of Gandalf and knowledge on Ring-lore, but Aule never lost fear in Eru. He was MAYBE too liberal in distributing knowledge and artifacts (Feanor, Mairon and Curumo again), sowing the seeds for greed in people who would not fear Eru, but he was not greedy himself

[@MessDawn]

@@lisboah Agreed. maybe it was Tolkien's way to say that a search for knowledge and technological improvement, if not done carefully and with respect to the possible outcome, can lead to disaster. itt can give a person a feeling of being above others because the kowledge they have? i dont know, but i do think it is interesting that the ones that lead to disaster were, to begin with, more concerned by progress (like feanor or saruman with his devices) than to the wisdom that comes from the past or fro m nature

[@BastaGenug]

Meanwhile, Aule is left wondering why he can't get good help.

[@martinbennett8752]

Nietzsche said "if you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you" Nietzsche makes his remark about the abyss (in Beyond Good and Evil §146) just after cautioning the reader that someone who fights monsters risks becoming a monster himself.

[@comesahorseman]

Be careful not to study evil for too long and too closely; sooner or later, it will tempt you to try to use it for your own ends.

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

I don't think the Valar would have sent Saruman to Middle-Earth if there was no chance he could succeed or if they knew he would fall to corruption.

[@ThrawnFett123]

I honestly believe the only reason Gandalf managed to stay on task and not be corrupted was the ring of fire. His heart was kindled as much by the hearts he kindled. I could see Sarumon following a similar path had he not lost hope. But I also think only Gandalf with the ring of fire could have seen the mission to its conclusion as well as happened. A fire ring Sarumon may not have been turned to evil, but he would likely have used attrition tactics instead

[@ericz9527]

Sounds like his pride and jealousy were always going to put him at risk of falling to evil, but I like to think that it wasn't inevitable. Thank you for the video! Saruman is a fascinating character.

[@adamcornell1186]

I never subscribed to the theory that the good characters were always less interesting than the evil ones. Saruman however is an exception. Definitely the character I want to know way more about.

[@declanmccreadie1081]

Would it be possible that Saruman not so much succumbed to evil, but more to fear? He felt that Sauron was unstoppable and wished to gain the ring to challenge him, I don’t think his intentions were truly evil, he meant well in a way but fell to far.

[@Brandon-a-writer]

I would not have anyone else in all the circles of the world do the narration for these … this has got to be one of the best looks into his character, its contradictions and complexities. This was wonderful James!

[@DaBIONICLEFan]

It's interesting how 2 of the most well-known Maiar to turn to evil were associated with Aulë, who went behind Eru's back to create the Dwarves (because of his impatience no less). Although Aulë ultimately stayed good and was permitted to keep his creation, due to his humility before Eru, I think the link between Sauron and Saruman's fall and their history with Aulë is more than just coincidental.

[@Azulakayes]

Add the Noldor to that list. They were closest to Aule, created many precious things include the infamous silmarils and we know what that led to. By the third age, the only Noldor ancestry left was courtesy of Galadriel and far off in Aragorn and Arwen.

[@kevinbrennan-ji1so]

Correct, Feanor and his sons especially, although they wouldn't be described as evil, certainly performed some evil deeds. Possibly, the answer here is pride. Too much pride in one's work and accomplishments. They didn't follow Aule in this regard, as he moved on to the next creative task rather than sitting back and enjoying his laurels. It seems the message from Tolkien here is, do not be overprowd of your own works, and keep trying to attain new ways of creativity 'to the benefit of others'.

[@JohnPeacekeeper]

This is why I really hope the Istari Stranger in Rings of Power is Saruman. It'd be such a tragic tale of ups and downs and we'd see how he gradually gets twisted from once having valued friends to seeing people as tools. (Though Alatar would still be just as cool)

[@lordofthered1257]

I wonder what would have happened if just Saurumon was sent. Without being constantly compared and feeling slighted by Gandalf. Would he have stayed good? Would he alone stood strong against Sauron?

[@JosephStenson]

Not always evil, but always proud and always envious of Olorin

[@kevinrussell1144]

Friend, you need to check out discussion of the difference between evil and sin. Evil is damage and is a relative thing. Sin is disobedience, and the first sin of the "deadly" list is pride. IF Saruman was always proud, he was always sinful and evil..........ALWAYS.

[@gothia1715]

It was a long process. Sarumans pride led to envy. And then his eagerness to overcome those he envied did make him seek isolation. Where he could study only for himself to get an edge over everyone else. The immense knowledge he achieved did make him hungry for power and the isolation cold and ignorant towards other living beings. It was around 3000 t.a. when he directly fell under Saurons influence. But Saruman was already deeply corrupted before, by his own doing.

[@illuminatusdeus3051]

Saruman of many colours, easily my favourite character... Saruman is neither good, nor evil, he is in no one's camp. Sauron corrupted him, still resisted and tried to play his way to the ring of Power.

[@kevinbrennan-ji1so]

Hmmm, don't quite agree with this assessment. To be only in one's own camp lends itself to evil, for what is the root cause of evil if not selfishness? It is why we all have elements of good and evil within us. Those who resist the temptations of evil (completely seflish acts) are the true saints. I can safely say I am not a saint, unfortunately.

[@VoidNull9222]

Great video! Personally I don’t think Saruman was always evil. It’s more that with his wisdom and intellect he thought he could rule Middle Earth better than the Free Peoples could. Like Melkor and Sauron he sought power because he thought he and he alone could make the world better by ruling everything rather than trusting in free will of mortals and the plan of Eru.

[@TheBrokenSword]

Thank you 😁

[@TarMody]

The general motivation of Sauron's character shaped around the concepts of domination, control and order is similar to that of Saruman. This similarity may be due to the fact that they are Maia of the same Vala (Aulë). Because during the performance of the Music of the Ainur, they came together around the same Vala, as their melodies were similar. Therefore, the more good and evil Sauron is in his essence, the more good and evil is Saruman.

[@saveyoutub]

Saruman was not always evil, but rather he falls to evil influence in his desire for power and control. His initial intentions were to help defeat Sauron, but he becomes corrupted by the allure of the Ring and is ultimately consumed by his own ambition.

[@TarMody]

@@saveyoutub In essence, both Sauron and Saruman were good. Like Sauron, his desire for power corrupted Saruman. Corruption in power is the main cause of decline, a theme in Tolkien.

[@aaronboyce6743]

I really enjoyed this video. Saruman story is one of my personal fav. He always came across as a man who struggled with his desire to do good followed by overall corruption and turning evil. I feel he would have made a strong leader if he stayed on the right side.

[@theharper1]

It was actually "by the devices of Saruman" that cast Sauron out of Dol Guldur, rather than Galadriel as depicted in the films. But given his pride and desire for power in order to "set the world right", his ego was the means for Sauron to corrupt him.

[@jamief1263]

Saruman wasn’t evil to start off with, his flaw was pride. Following the council of the Valar, Saruman volunteered for the task that was proposed, he was forced to take Radagast, one of the Blue Wizards was chosen and the other volunteered to accompany his friend, but the one chosen by Manwe lord of the Valar, was Gandalf, who did not want to go. On top of this Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan all treated Gandalf with more reverence than him, with the later immediately surrendering the ring of fire to Gandalf. This all hurt Saruman’s pride, who believed himself the greatest of the 5, which technically he was, however he did not understand his mission properly, he wanted to test himself against Sauron, who was considered one of the greatest Maiar. This meant that Saruman didn’t have time for people he considered too weak to help in his objective. This mentality eventually led him to realise that he alone stood the best chance of defeating Sauron, which then led to him studying Sauron (also becoming in awe of him, rather than contempt) and realising that the only chance he had was to find the ring. The ring therefore corrupted him without him even seeing it. It does seem like others did contribute to his downfall, but the biggest person to blame other than himself is Manwe, he should have realised that Saruman’s personality didn’t fit the task he was assigned.

[@kyleherring5943]

I honestly always pictured you in my head with like flowing raven colored hair. Keep up the dope content!

[@TheBrokenSword]

😂😂😂 not for a long time!!

[@kyleherring5943]

😂

[@bryanmatthews2370]

Do you have a video of thranduil after lotr? I was watching return last night, watching galadriel, elrond, Gandalf, frodo, and bilbo board a ship at the Grey havens, and I thought "I have no idea what happened to legolas' dad....someone does though"

[@crazyman8472]

More ego than evil at first; Saruman always figured he was the smartest guy in the room, even compared to his fellow wizards or Sauron. 😎

[@sandraStory]

Saruman tripped up by his ego so I think that would always have been a problem for him he never understood the meaning of fellowship. IMO

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

In the earlier versions of The of the Rings, Saruman was sketched merely as a fawning servant of Sauron, while the army he musters is not in rivalry of Mordor's but from the beginning in his new master's employ. In other drafts, the treacherous Wizard hands Gandalf over to the evil Giant Treebeard or betrays him to the Black Riders. Saruman's older names in these drafts were Sarumond and Saramund, containing english term mund "hand".

[@FrancisFjordCupola]

There's also this one little thing: Saruman calls himself ringmaker. But he was a seeker of a lost art. Very retro. But we never see him brandishing great powers from a ring of his own making. Compared to the true ringsmiths, he must have been a noob. A try-hard noob spending ages on never meeting their level. That must have ate him up on the inside.

[@golwenlothlindel]

"Nothing is evil in it's origin"-Lord Elrond. Curumo's pride was probably always going to get him in trouble, but there were multiple points at which he could have chosen differently. He believed from the beginning that his mission was to take on Sauron by themselves, perhaps with the aid of ancient elves like Galadriel but not the "lesser" peoples. And after having seen the weakness of the Númenoreans who can truly blame him for not having much faith in humans? But he could have learned from Galadriel and Elrond and Celeborn. He could have allowed himself to be persuaded. Even Sauron had a choice, way back before even the elves awoke. He had a choice to refuse Melkor. One of the great Maia lords was always going to fall, but it didn't have to be Mairon. It could have been Ossë. Sauron had a choice again after the War of Wrath. He could have come go Valinor as Eönwë ordered. He had a choice again, in Eregion. Right up until the moment he finished the One Ring, he had a choice.

[@johnquach8821]

Saruman always being bad would be a bad idea. It would take away from his fall. He was not evil once, but became evil later. After all, what's worse? To have been always evil, or to become evil through a series of horrible decisions?

[@vaiyt]

I like this reference.❤

[@monblkcat5990]

He wasn't evil at first, but his fall was inevitable It was in the Music, after all

[@Huskytabby]

What-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?

[@SharpFaust]

I'm of two minds of this, I think that either Saruman was initially good, but became corrupted due to his jealousy of Gandalf; or he was always evil and was perhaps one of the Istari who joined in with Melkor when he created the discordance.

[@nigeldepledge3790]

From what I understand, Curumo was somewhat like Fëanor : a deep desire to create things of wonder leads to great pride. And pride grows into self-importance and disregard for "lesser" folk. Thus, if Curumo were ever in a position to be tempted to dominate and rule over others, he was likely to fall. The very fact that he volunteered for the Valar's mission to Middle-Earth should have been warning enough. He has a mind of metal and wheels, not of compassion or sympathy.

[@primal1233]

I don't think he was always evil, but at some point during his existence he started to become evil.

[@davidmiddleton7958]

Saruman felt put upon when asked to accompany Rhagast the Brown to Middle Earth. Also, when Gandalf was given one of the Elven rings, Saruman was enraged when he found out. Some of Sarumans character revealed!

[@johanabigasova6770]

It's Radagast, not Rhagast.

[@Tim.Stotelmeyer]

When Círdan gave the elven ring Narya to Gandalf instead of Saruman that would be a good point for when Saruman began his descent into evil.

[@kevinbrennan-ji1so]

Ah, but was he aware of this? I've never read anything cannon to indicate he was.

[@nikicarrie4071]

What did gandalf ring allow him to do?

[@Tim.Stotelmeyer]

@@nikicarrie4071 Narya was described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny.

[@nikicarrie4071]

@@Tim.Stotelmeyer ty 😊

[@zachpayton1079]

I think if Saruman was intended to be evil he would have defected at the same time as Morgoth's followers. He was unfit for the task, which is also poetic because (correct me if I'm wrong) but he wasn't chosen for this mission but rather volunteered, a testament to his eventual downfall.

[@asytippyy352]

To me, Saruman is the most important lesson character for the reader, and him not being truly evil is key to that. The lesson is that you the reader are not evil, but you don't need to be evil to do evil; all you need to do is let evil feed on your heart. "The road to hell paved with good intentions" and all that. It's no coincidence that Aule's Maiar were the two greatest villains in the Third Age; they were both engineers at heart, firmly believing they could build their version of a better world, blind to the folly of their obsession with might, status, and industry. Him not being evil by nature is also why his juxtaposition against Gandalf is so important: the best wizard simply doesn't surrender to the notion that only power can conquer power; his trust in the likes of Bilbo and Later Frodo showed that the true antidote to evil was humility, empathy and contentedness. Further, Saruman's envy of Gandalf was, to me, classic dissonance. Truth seemed to come easier to Gandalf, whereas Saruman was too material-minded to allow it to take hold. He resented Gandalf's ability to embrace the company of this mortal world whereas he was struggling to find ways to merely cope with being in it. Saruman wanted to repent many times, but his pride anchored him away from the path he should take, and so in the end his spirit was cast away by Manwë upon his body's eventful demise. He was not evil; he was fallen, and that distinction is important. To me, evil resides in every person, but cannot describe any one of them entirely. Rather than his demise in the Shire a triumph, that's what makes the whole thing such a tragedy. It mirrors tragedy wrought by ego in humanity.

[@Locedamius]

Saruman was corrupted not because of happenstance but because of his actions. Him taking a different path would essentially require Saruman to not be Saruman. He was destined for his fall to evil the moment he decided to go to Middle Earth (and destiny is a powerful thing in Tolkien's world). The only way I see for him to avoid his fall would have been for him to stay in Valinor. Would that have been better for Middle Earth? He spent two millenia there and only in the last few years did he actively work against the forces of good, the rest of the time he was a valuable ally. As Gandalf once said, Saruman's knowledge was often useful to prevent Sauron's return to power (like when the white council drove him out of Dol Guldur). Maybe this contribution was big enough that despite his later fall to evil, a world without him might have turned out worse in the end. Also, would Radagast have joined the Istari without Saruman? He was always firmly on the side of good and many of Gandalf's acts may have been less successful without Radagast's support. I think, Saruman was always destined to fail as this was the only way how the forces of good could ultimately succeed. In a sense, this makes his story even more tragic.

[@michasalamon8315]

Tolkien was very big at the „no one was born evil thing” even Morgoth was Melkor before his fall, and Sauron was Mairon before being corrupted. Saruman, if stories be believed since we dont actually see it in either Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, or Silmarillion, he was said to be the smartest and most dedicated of wizards. I wish we had more stories with young wizards. Btw, Is it an Aule thing that his creations get corrupted with obsessions? Like, Mairon got corrupted by desire for order, Saruman funny enought for the same reason, and Dwarves’ have their greed going on. I always like Saruman and while I think he was always going to fall, I hope one day we will see his you get years as good wizard, or possible redemption in 4th age or end of the world, preferably before I myself am 80 years old. Edit. I think the only pure evil things in Tolkien lore would be Ungoliath and unnamed things as they are either created out of pure darkness that opposes Eru or were created in the discord that Melkor created when he did his random solo. Still, its assuming they were evil and not forces of animalistic nature/natural elements. A Wolf Isn’t even because it kills to eat, but it is kinda evil when it kills its own pups for no reason.

[@gerrimilner9448]

marie curie actualy died of x-ray exposure from running an x-ray unit for injured soldiers during the war, not radiation poisoning from discovering radium. they moved her remains a few years ago and as part of that tested them, as they needed to know how dangerous it would be. They found that the radiation decay levels, showed high levels of the decay residue from the x-rays, with no sign of radiation. it was a big surprise

[@ZENmud]

So many valid 😎 comments, regarding Saruman going evil or allowing it to emerge ~ I'm curious as to when this association: Saruman & 'evil' ~ became the general consensus among his peers and the Council, with Bombadil and Cirdan of the Grey Havens (etc)? There seems to be a disconnect between Saruman's fouling of his valley, creating his Orc battalions, slaying of forests, which didn't happen swiftly ... and then Gandalf sort-of gets himself captured, and "voilà !" evil Saruman becomes a (rather large) obstacle.

[@sakomanlee]

It seems odd that Aulë's twisted Ainu disciples were both famed for their powers of deception and influence. Aulë isn't known for that.....I now believe that Aulë is now the ACTUAL ultimate bad guy and, in fact, twisted Melkor (like backstage before the Music of the Ainur) and is still biding his time. Or he's really, really dumb.

[@nikicarrie4071]

Great thoughts!

[@sakomanlee]

@@nikicarrie4071 Thanks! Also, he is the only bad Ainu partner.....not that there are any couples who have any emotional depth among the Ainu (Melian excepted). He creates Dwarves and then his partner Yavanna has to go to the bosses and say that my shit-heel partner has created these beings who will destroy the things I love the best and you approved it. At which point, the powers that be allow her to create/sanction Ents and Aulë's response is all: Men and Elves will also need wood. Chilling. Meh.....I am stretching but the Dude is a stooge!

[@aaronhiatt209]

Pride goes before the fall. The seed of evil was always there, simply waiting to germinate.

[@TheLazyFusspot_3428]

Count Dooku XD

[@GRasputin91]

Curump was highly vulnerable to corruption--he desired power more than anything. He allied temporarily with Sauron to take out the West's strongholds, but all along he was planning to try and overpower Sauron with his army of Uruks and wild men. Note how his orcs and the Mordor orcs did not get along well at all, there was a brewing conflict between them. Had Saruman succeeded with Rohan and Gondor Sauron would be his next target.

[@H34rtLikeDavid]

I see you are friend to Council of the Rings. Thus we are here on common purpose, friend. (subbed)

[@darrengladden4681]

Aule, seems to be the constant problem as most of his students become corrupted in some way e.g. Feanor, Saruman, Sauron etc. He even went against Eru in creating the dwarves.

[@somersault1123]

No. Melkor is the constant problem, during the music, he forced several into his discordant tunes. But also we don't know if Melkor's discord was a part of Eru's plan. In which case, neither is an actual problem but instead an obstacle to overcome or a hammer to shape the souls of men and elves.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Personal headcanon: Saruman WAS bad from the beginning. Why do we never hear about the Blue Wizards? Because when he traveled to see them in the East, he found that they were experimenting with ring-lore, using one of the lesser Rings that had been parcelled out to Eastern rulers by Sauron in the 2nd Age. He murdered them, took that Ring, and that's what Gandalf sees on his finger when Saruman makes him a captive.

[@arth8265]

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."

[@mattwilson8298]

15:06 *sniff sniff* "You stink of horse."

[@somersault1123]

One of the most common misconceptions of Tolkien is that it's all black and white: true good in a dramatic struggle against true evil. Which is a very odd misconception since the entire story of The Lord of the Rings is about good guys turning bad and/or being corrupted either simply to weaken and stand down in the face of adversity or to wholly give their might and wisdom to evil plots and there isn't any at all of ultimate evil going toe-to-toe with ultimate good. Sauron is never seen, Morgoth is long gone. And the angels stay out of the story aside from sending 5 lesser angels to play an advisory role.

[@TKinfinity01]

Saruman was probably always arrogant. Which most likely led to him turning more corrupt.

[@fred20097]

I think that the biggest question is that if Saruman hadnt used the palantir of orthanc and been corrupted by Sauron, would he still have become evil? It's one thing to be proud and jealous, it's another to raise an army of orcs and attack Rohan. Was the only reason he became evil because of the palintir? Would he have done the same things if he hadn't used it?

[@davidrains6751]

what do you think sarumans punishment was when his earthly body died do you think he was given a lengthy prison sentence by illuvatar or what do you think the path he fell into permanently stained his soul

[@bfkc111]

I think pragmatically Tolkien would say his purpose and therefore destiny was to turn evil.

[@donbrunodelamancha1927]

Unfortunate events, in my opinion tend to be more akin to, say, to contracting an STI. Whereas, turning evil is part of their innate nature. While it is true children who are abused by their parents, families, relatives, whomever, and otherwise used as things in disgustingly disturbing ways, and other atrocities that are done to them , can alter a child’s nature to become reflections of the horrors they endured. These particular children are, for all intents and measures, essentially programed from birth. As such, never had a fighting a chance of their own, to be their own unique person. They can become someone who has been warped in their psychology from day one. Which is very different from an Istari, as close to Eru Ilúvatar, suddenly becoming Saruman of Man many colors. He was going to be evil from the start.

[@ReturnofBenjamin]

Saruman was a man who put destination before journey.

[@Edward-nf4nc]

It's complicated. In a way I think he was faited to fail! Or at least everything was against him. Why? Because Aule was the smith of the Valar and he created the dwarves because he was impatient, which was against the will of Eru, Morgoth had a part of all the gifts of all the Valar, thus he had some of Aule's desire to be master of life forms, Sauron was a student of Aule, and he desired to bring his vision of order to Middle-Earth by being Master of Middle-Earth, and Saruman was a student of Aule! And he desired power to overpower Sauron and be Master of Middle-Earth as well! Morgoth made the Orcs, trolls and dragons, Aule made the dwarves, Sauron made the One Ring, the Black Uruks and himself as Master, god and king over the Easterlings, Corsairs of Umbar and many Haradrim kingdoms. Saruman made a Ring of Power, the Uruk-hai, which I think he used to control the Uruk-hai, for a while he was Lord of the Shire, nearly Lord of Rohan, and but for the treason of Eomer, he would have been Lord and Master of Middle-Earth as well! Aule and all those connected to him, seem to have a desire to make and fall as Aule nearly fell in one version of Tolkien's writings. The desire to create will lead to your fall! Morgoth fell, Sauron fell, Saruman fell, Grima fell, Lotho Sackville-baggins fell. Lotho wanted to make a new way of living and it led to his fall! Desire to control will lead to your fall as it did with the above. Be modist, be humble, be good and you will not be tainted. Be a Hobbit and things will be well most of the time. Be a dwarf and thing will be alright after a while.

[@BITSANDBYTES927]

Nobody mentions radagast but i like him he never hurt a soul. No he didn't do the job he was suppost to but he took care of middle earth in his own way. He also did help gandalf and the dwarves when they asked.

[@EugeneGM1]

I think his pride was always going to lead him to a bad end.

[@CuttinEJ]

You mention wisdom early on, but I think Saruman’s great failing is ambition and an over sized ego in which he saw himself as being much greater than he was. These, in turn, led to (or exposed) other bad traits such as jealousy, vindictiveness and hypocrisy. Despite possibly having good intentions, ambition and vanity eventually drove him to strive with a being far more powerful than he was and to deceived into doing evil. By the time he realized how far he had fallen he was unable to admit his failure and repent. In this he behaved much as Sauron had when Melkor had been defeated at the end of the First Age. He was offered a chance for redemption and forgiveness, but would not humble himself. All of this undermined him at every turn and rendered any wisdom he might have had to mere knowledge. Gandalf, on the other hand, was able to succeed because he was humble and had no ambitions beyond fulfilling his task.

[@scottjackson1420]

I think Saruman never had a chance ... from the day the wizards were sent to Middle-Earth, he was resentful of Radagast and Gandalf. What he NEEDED was the strength to face Sauron one on one and kill him. Not given that power, he was lost because he lacked the moral strength to perform the duties he was sent over to do.

[@julianmhall]

I'm not sure Saruman /was/ actually evil. Power hungry yes, and that hunger was used by the /actually/ evil one, Sauron, who misled Saruman. A bit like Anakin Skywalker, who was an impatient teen not actually evil. In that case the Emperor Darth Sidious conned Anakin into following the Dark Side of The Force.

[@Skeletongentleman7808]

I don’t believe Saruman was really “evil” per say, I think he had a “Ends justify the means” type of outlook on the world and made moral concessions until he was perceived as evil by others who took a more morally pure route to destroy Sauron. Until that is his fall, which is when he became petty and destroyed the Shire out of spite to both the hobbits and Gandalf

[@jamth118]

Great keep up the good work

[@danielsimon5077]

Do you guys think saruman's powers increased/decreased any once he became saruman of many colors?

[@TheBrokenSword]

Personally I would say decreased!

[@2shadesofgray752]

A rainbow is white light broken and scattered. No longer solid and whole

[@MonographicSingleheaded]

it s his own personality and tendencies that „turned” him evil = made him do all the crap. so nope, unless he himself would somehow turn a different way.

[@davidthomas8018]

KZbin ad playing in middle of sponsored ad. Inception level s#*@ there.

[@kimwelch4652]

While absolutes are only valid in the absolute context, we do have a clear absolute definition of evil. Evil is not loving your neighbor as yourself. Saruman loved no one but himself and thus was evil at least by the time he set foot in Middle Earth. Radagast loved the fauna of Middle Earth, but not so much the people and thus was only partially evil. Gandalf loved even those who were evil, caring even for Golem/Sméagol which makes Gandalf good. We do not know of the blue wizards.

[@thevillageblacksmith8550]

No he was doomed. Pride goeth before the fall as they say

[@replicant_7774]

I think it’s possible that he betrayed the Blue Wizards, which is why he went east.

[@patrickgray3796]

I disagree that it was silver tongue that got him the dead of the white council As galadriel wanted gandalf to be the head of the council. He declined as he wanted to not be fixed in one location. Saruman was the next choice thus added to his jealousy towards gandalf and downfall as a result

[@MessDawn]

saruman is one thing but let's stop to recognize that the late christopher lee actually met tolkien and got leave to be gandalf. im happy he was sauruman. he is THE saruman. he was perfect for the role. and cutting his death from the movies was for me horrible we got it in the etended so it all worked out. as for saruman i dont think he was corrupted by sauron, i think he was ambitious to begin with, and if sauron had won, there would be a competition between them. i cant imagine he would take another maia, his equal afterall, to be his better for long.

[@r.e.tucker3223]

Even angels may fall.

[@markgriffiths5289]

Only humility could have turned Saruman back to good. Humility is the antidote to Pride. Saruman was very ambitious. As his pride grew, his humility died. Evil has no humility.

[@lefteron6804]

0:10 SARUMAN THE STINKY!

[@nevarmaor]

Was he truly evil at all or misguided?

[@HomerSimpson-gr1uj]

He came flawed to middle earth.

[@NaturallyMeeee]

Able does not have a good track record when it comes to non evil servants

[@ZeroPointsInCharisma]

Saruman also has great hair, I see what you did

[@dambrooks7578]

Saruman the Hubris 😊

[@jdmj707]

Not interested in my video being interrupted by an ad.

[@lordcline217]

"Azog sent me"

[@Sandbarfight]

Thank you

[@nikicarrie4071]

On Erath I think yes bc earth corrupted him

[@Fingolfin219]

Azog Sent Me Here

[@alanmike6883]

What if he didn't betray his mission?

[@michasalamon8315]

He story would be 1 book shorter. But on serious note. If he stayed loyal, it would not change much, only made summonig Rohan to Gondor’s air easier, and maybe even some elves would come to help humans fight at Miras Tirith. Its still unlikely his help would help at Black Gate or destroying the ring.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

SARUMAN THE STINKY!!!

[@daveshugart2195]

All about making money. Let's see if your hair grows or another false promise.

[@jprocha1570]

I think those who become evil were always destined to be evil. That is why heroes should be celebrated, because they became good.

[@rollingslothmachine3431]

Nah, that would be pure nature in relation of the question nature vs nurture. Science has proven multiple times now that nature and nurture are working in tandem. Even psychopaths, the most easily corrupted in real human beings, do not always turn to evil/hurting others. There can be a tendency, but there is also always a chance of a better outcome and sometimes even redemption.

[@michaelingerslev4201]

Did u just say sruaman made expolese???guns and gunpower don exeist in middel earth... do u even know what ur talking about?

[@archivis]

every one is evil except dogs. :)

[@TheBrokenSword]

This is too true 😂

[@Raz.C]

Have we established that Saruman is evil, in the first place? The way it's described is that he was 'ensnared' by Sauron and thereafter, his allegiance was a matter of fear. He treated his enemies the way EVERYONE there treated their enemies. Is there ANYTHING that Saruman does that can be attributed to 'evil,' rather than to some other motive that is also displayed by 'good' characters? For example, the scouring of the shire. Was that out of evil, or out of spite, for an enemy that had dispossessed him? Didn't Gimli behave spitefully towards the Moria orcs for dispossessing the Dwarves of Moria? Didn't the men of Gondor behave spitefully towards the Mordor orcs that had dispossessed them of Osgiliath? Is Gimli evil? Were the men of Gondor evil? Was Denethor evil? Was Saruman evil? Hells, let's go there and ask it; Was Sauron evil? It seems that he wanted order above all else and he wanted to be the source of that order. He wasn't trying to exterminate the men, elves and dwarves (and hobbits). He was trying to rule them, even if his rule was harsh and despotic. Naturally, they prized their freedom, so the kind of order represented by Sauron was anathema to their chaos/ freedom. Was the chaos of the elves/ men 'evil'? Was the order of Sauron really evil? Isn't it more accurate that it was simply an ideological clash between Chaos and Order, where both sides committed what the other would consider to be atrocities? No one cried foul when reading (of the Battle of Helm's Deep): Neither orc nor man withstood them. Their backs were to the swords and spears of the Riders, and their faces to the valley. They cried and wailed, for fear and great wonder had come upon them with the rising of the day. Yet when the Nazgul cause fear to immobilise the enemies of Mordor, they're seen as evil. In any case, that's perhaps beyond the scope of this tirade. The point here is to ask - Was Saruman actually evil? Or are there better, more accurate ways to explain his motivation, without reducing his behaviour to a single dimension? I believe that if you read Tolkien and you adjudicate Saruman as "evil," then you've done an enormous disservice to the effort put into the nuance of the story and its characters, by Tolkien. More than that, you're doing yourself a disservice, by robbing yourself of the many, varied layers behind characters and their actions, by dismissing context and motivation and instead characterising them as 'evil,' thereby reducing them to a simple, single dimension. edit - Again, claiming that Saruman was responsible for the deaths of thousands is merely the consequence of the clash of ideologies, in much the same way that Gandalf was responsible to for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Orcs, hillmen, easterlings, southerners/ black numenoreans/ etc... If being responsible for x deaths or > x deaths is the threshold for dismissing someone's character, their behaviour and motivations as 'evil,' then Gandalf was 'evil,' Elrond was 'evil,' Aragorn was 'evil' and so forth...

[@morgoth173]

Video 236

[@kevinrussell1144]

Always proud, always sinful, and always evil. He and the other "rotters" (we all know who these are) are the evil aspects of Eru's thought.

[@BenFrayle]

Sponsored by a baldness cure.... Classic grift

[@slayskool777]

So, the gods can send Gandalf back to middle earth after death, but can't do anything about Saruman?? It's as overlooked as Gollum NOT rapidly aging after losing the ring.

[@howdareyouexist]

you have much to learn kid

[@Gandalf-The-Gay]

He wouldn't be if he confessed his feelings to Gandalf.