Evil in Andor | The Banality of Evil

[@aymacaymacunt814]

My favorite moment was during the prison break when they finally reached the control room. The source of the deep, monstrous voice that has condemned hundreds to their deaths and oppressed the entire prison population for years. They finally reach him and it's just some scared, ordinary dude using a voice modulator.

[@ximono]

Yeah, that was brilliant!

[@chrisbarrett2117]

@@ximono just like the wizard of oz

[@AnakinSkyobiliviator]

@@MariOmor1 I think the comment refers to the main overseer of the prison. Serkis' character is the 5-2-D's manager.

[@mfnd502]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[@gfox9295]

@@AnakinSkyobiliviator I think they deleted their comment, but... maybe they were just referring to him using the same mic/voice modulator as the original PA speaker?

[@aquapendulum]

The show really did a good job at portraying the viilains that come not from the top, but from the professional middle manager class. Status quo at all cost. The Empire would not have such a large workforce loyal to it if it didn't appeal to their sense of order and stability.

[@Carewolf]

Even the heroes are shown having to do "bad" things.. Seems far removed from the rest of the new Star Wars Schlock.

[@tgs7515]

@@Carewolf It’s not really “new” - Star Wars has always been, by design, a kid friendly space adventure. Its just how it’s portrayed. That doesn’t mean that it’s never shown the good guys doing bad things, though. The Rebellion enacted mass terrorist violence against the Empire, and likely resulted in the deaths of countless lives through their actions, but since they are the heroes of the film, all of their enemies were presented as members of the Imperial military machine, or as true-believer fascists. This way the audience never felt bad for those whom the Rebels killed - nor should they - but it wasn’t ever meant to show realistic war, because that’s not what Lucas was ever interested in. Gareth Edwards changed that with Rogue One because he wanted to show what an actual war was like, and how the good guys can and do still commit atrocious acts for the sake of their cause. So it’s absolutely no coincidence that Andor would continue with that kind of perspective. Even The Clone Wars dabbled in darkness and showed the cost of war, and showed good people doing bad things. It was more kid-friendly in its presentation, but those themes were absolutely there.

[@Carewolf]

@@tgs7515 Which is why I was talking about most of the Disney era Star Wars, it is basically only been in Rogue One and Andor.

[@FriendlyCroock]

It's a nice video except for once again using the Naughtzis as an example of tyranny.

[@FriendlyCroock]

I know I made this point a hundred times on youtube. But the reason why americans have such a weird fascination with "Naughtzis" is because of their massive problem with racism.

[@tristanskywalker1998]

I think the bad guys in Andor are so menacing and threatening BECAUSE they're not grandiose, obtusely evil villains like Darth Vader and the Emperor. They're just normal people doing really bad things, and that makes their actions feel so much more real.

[@LordVader1094]

@@priyapepsi Precisely. People seem to ignore the immense complexity of Palpatine and Vader as villains.

[@kl-1447]

Its normal people doing bad things and it's that they think they're doing the right thing. To them they're just doing their job and it's normal and routine.

[@tristanskywalker1998]

@LordVader1094 It's not that they're not complex characters. But they're obviously evil people. They wear all black, look hideous, have evil powers, and are literally believers of the "dark side." That's pulpy evil.

[@nbamaniac]

@@LordVader1094 well because the movies that portray them don't show the nuances, it's always 'in your face'.

[@jrgrimm6091]

This is why this shows version of the Empire scared me most. It reminded me of the Nazis because I did a lot of research on them and the thing that scared me most was exactly this. They were just people doing their jobs for their nation. It's not like they thought "ooh what evil thing can I do today". No, it was stacks of paperwork, petty bureaucracy, and boatd meetings to figure out how to do their work even though that work was killing a bunch of people. It's scary man

[@chaoticgoodcreations947]

It is, phenomenal, that the story about a secondary protagonist in a prequal movie that happens mere minutes before the 4th Star Wars movie has some of the most interesting worldbuilding Star Wars has gotten since the first three prequal movies.

[@Ketraar]

I would even go as far as saying that they build more world then the OG Movies themselves, at least a more deeper look and not just stereotypical surface level like the OG trilogy did. Andor builds world with finesse too, which is a bonus.

[@Aptonoth]

Lots of this was taken from old star wars book, games, and comics all now finally seen in live action for the first time ever.

[@logion567]

1st Star Wars movie you filthy Heretic but otherwise yes.

[@BrandanLee]

Yeah, a lot of this was in the books, and always had been. The vibe of the banality of it especially was in the books. You only get glimpses of it in the Original movies and Prequels (Phantom Menace starts with a negotiation over a trade dispute and economic blockade for fucksake). but Andor took the seeds of what was always there, and bright it from the background to the foreground. And it is... delicious.

[@meteorhero526]

@@BrandanLee Yeeeeep. Sounds like so many other works: The universe is fascinating, but expensive to render (esp back in the 80s, of course)

[@Devastish]

Another thing to consider is the ISB Major. He's one of the best characters in my opinion. He shows competent, level headed leadership. For instance, there is a scene early on where Meero and Bliven(? the other lieutenant) have an argument that they take to the major. He decides against Meero, gives her a bit of a dressing down, but then tells her how she can do better. Perfect leadership, and deserving of respect. I was genuinely surprised at how much I liked him from the first time he was on screen, and it really got me thinking. I know what he is doing, I know his aims, and I know who he is working for. But damn, his technique is impeccable, and I cannot help but respect him for it. So, I think he is a great representation of how the evil can take on a respectable appearance. He is the old teacher, guiding the next generation to greatness, but what is left unsaid is what they are really doing, and the ends that they serve. He also contributes to making the Empire a legitimate threat. Knowing that there are extremely competent calm and rational people running the Empire makes it all the more menacing. The Major isn't going to screw up by doing something rash. The rebels have to outplay him.

[@2WhiteAndNerdy]

Well said. Even in US military courses today, we study officers from evil empires from the Nazis to the Romans. They may have been evil, but sometimes we can take away tactical strategies, leadership exercises, etc. In AF basic training they use a team building obstacle course that was based on Nazi officer training and it IS highly effective in teaching a disparate group to think outside the box and work cohesively to achieve the goal. That ISB Major is a great example. Bad dude really for whom he serves, but exceptional leadership and command skillz.

[@IanSumallo]

He takes the evil Grand Moff Tarkin, and turns it into the evil of someone you could easily see as your department manager.

[@tomasjakovac7950]

The Erwin Rommel of Star Wars

[@OnTheShangriLa]

This also bucks the trend that is all too common in empire era star wars where the empire is just played as overconfident in their abilities and easily taken advantage of by small rebel groups. Take Rebels the show for instance, most every encounter with a much larger, more powerful empire is defeated by some seemingly inexplicable ineptitude and it stands to the detriment of such shows and is why Andor succeeds, it finally takes the Empire seriously.

[@Kilo_23]

I get what your saying but no matter how competent and smart the guy is it dosnt justify his actions and ideology. Like the video states anyone can commit evil and a man who is good at it shouldn't be praised. (The actor done a great job btw) The character himself chooses to aid and lead in the empire against oppressing the civilian populace along with eliminating and killing insurgents. He's also behind a desk which takes his actions away from those pulling the trigger...but in actuality the order to pull it is coming from him. Great character, great casting, great writing but don't praise the guy for being good at being bad.

[@TheNorthie]

Sergeant Mosk goes from “First Line of Defense of the Empire” to realizing what that actually means after the Ferrix riot. Seeing him just drink on the steps and thinking of what happened is such a great moment. Add on: his actor said he wasn’t asked back to shoot anything for the second season. So this is where Mosk’s story ends.

[@ozlemdenli7763]

Yes, it Will be fascinating to see his arc in the second season

[@TheNorthie]

@@ozlemdenli7763 unfortunately his actor said on Twitter he’s not back to film for the second season. So this is the end for Mosk and I’m satisfied of how it ended

[@belisarius6949]

Oh my god I missed him. Thats genuinely amazing.

[@Bendaak]

One of my favourite characters. I’ll miss him for sure.

[@mikekolokowsky]

I thought he would be a great character to continue. Story arc of starting as a true believer and eventually turning against it, or doubling down and getting killed supporting it because his commanders didn’t care to protect him.

[@rudyvalle9022]

At first I didn’t understand why they kept showing Cyril’s mother in this show. After the final episode it made sense. She is the opposite of Andor’s mother. The two mothers show the two types of motivations within the two sets of characters. Where Cyril was accepting of oppression, Andor was part of the angry outburst against it. Evil is allowed to perpetuate because regular people don’t take action. What makes thing even more complicated is that Cyril made that very same point as part of his speech to his men. As was pointed out in the video, none of them really believed it.

[@andeezorn5752]

Hey, thank you for pointing that out! Love that juxtaposition of two Mums and the story of their sons

[@flaminyawn]

Caught that too, and it's what makes "I love [my son] more than anything he could ever do wrong" such a character-defining line from Maarva and its effect on Cassian, because you know Syril NEVER heard anything like that from his mom.

[@iateseveralpoundsofsemtex1577]

i never bothered to think of it that way. nice observation!

[@RodCornholio]

Also, it demonstrates the very real (in our world as well) fact that most mom's _do_ care about their son's success, but as measured by a _practical_ standard - staying within society's banal status quos - not a _moral_ standard (as mentioned in _Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development_ ). It's the nail that sticks up that society's fist hammers down. This isn't exactly a criticism of moms/parents, since it's practically biological common sense to be protective of the life/livelihood of one's offspring. If that was not done early in human evolution, we wouldn't be here. DNA doesn't "care" about morality, just that it multiplies. It's the way it is and is a powerful, almost hidden, force against change. It goes even deeper; a woman's choice of their child's father, who they would prefer being a man of power than someone morally good but an outcast.

[@punko9031]

This is an amazing analysis, thank you!

[@TheSpiderworks]

One thing I love about the show is how the Empire does what I like to call Casual brutality example you can have a scientist talk about a genocide and using a child scream as a weapon of torture with the same tone that some people will talk about building a PC

[@robcohen7678]

that scene was one of my favorites, really showed how completely devoid of empathy the Empire is.

[@Draconicrose]

The parts where Gorst winces and uses euphemisms really sold that for me. Like, he knows what's up, he knows some things cross the line but he *gleefully* goes with it anyway!

[@bluebaum2.7.16]

That's what I thought as well, he comes across as just some "nerd" who wants to tell you about the stuff he likes.

[@ljg6979]

Yeah, Gorst definitely fulfilled the Josef Mengle vibe. Seems like he is still experimenting with his torture discovery...

[@TheZombifiedGuy]

It's a small thing, but one moment that made the scene so compelling to me was when Gorst is introduced to Bix (having already been alluded to as something of a boogeyman), and he smiles kind of awkwardly and waves at her. It's this tiny, totally natural human gesture from someone who knows they're about to torture someone to someone who knows they're about to be tortured. It's the little stuff like this that really grounds the show. And which makes its portrayal of evil all the more haunting and prescient.

[@ohhellobethany]

This is a fascinating look not only at Andor but also how mundane evil actually is in real life.

[@thepeanuts55]

People get lost in the idea that there's a big bad orchestrating all our problems, because then they can act like they're a crusader in the fight for good vs evil. May work for fantasy, but a dangerous mindset to apply in real life.

[@dansomething7742]

That's not really how real life works unless you live in one of a handful of countries

[@TheSwordThain]

@@dansomething7742 kzbin.info/www/bejne/npSTin6BfMeor5Y

[@baldygrey2779]

As someone already referenced, if you like this you might like Hannah Arendt's work, "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil" which this video was named after and features. My mind always go back to that piece when I see gov at work today.

[@_orangutan]

@@dansomething7742 That's exactly how evil works. Even in "western civilized" countries such as ours.

[@Latinocr]

"Institutions have this habit of posing themselves as natural, as unbiased, and apolitical." - "The institutions Eichmann worked for didn’t pose themselves as political, they posed themselves as a necessary component of society which justified the work he did" - "Look out for political institutions that claim to be unbiased, apolitical and necessary. These are the type of institutions that enable ordinary people to not think of the political implications of their work and commit ordinary evil." Gems like these are in part the reason I am addicted to this channel.

[@jsealejandro06]

All democrátic institutions portray themselve that way. Congress, the presidency, the judiciary, the supreme court, the defense department, the department of agriculture etc.

[@thisorthat629]

@@jsealejandro06 In central europe I've only very rarely heard of institutions posing themselves as apolitical or unbiased, the exception almost always being the police. And they, rightfully, are almost always under fire for the bullshit they do ( just following orders, etc ). imo that's what people really mean, when they say acab

[@jsealejandro06]

@@thisorthat629 Going to central europe we have lots of example. DW and públic media services would be a good start

[@SigFigNewton]

ICE

[@andromidius]

I briefly worked for the DWP in the UK - the Department of Work and Pensions. Such a dull sounding name, with a dull mandate - to organise and distribute money to people who are currently not working (either temporarily or due to disability). Such banality, yet full of so much evil its hard to put it into words. My job was to take phone calls from claimants - people seeking benefit money. I'd take their details - extensively. I'd ask them questions. I'd read off lengthy terms and conditions and declarations with actual legal weight behind them. And then I'd wish them a good day and the computer would automatically hand off their details to someone who decided whether or not that person deserved money. Sounds innocent enough, right? Well. The DWP likes to find any excuse to not award money to people. To be invasive in their questions. To not tolerate any frustration or anger at the system. To actively punish anyone who breaks the rules, whether they intended to or not. To decide whether or not someone starves to death or becomes homeless due to circumstances out of their control. To accuse people with life long disabilities or making things up to avoid work. To pressure people who shouldn't be working to go back to work. Work Will Set You Free. I dealt with all sorts of people on the phone. Young and old. Those in constant crippling pain, those who were recently fired, those who already worked but didn't get paid enough to survive. All while surrounded by people in an office who were so friendly and chatty in between work, who brought sweets to share and planned nights out together. And it didn't balance out the amount of despair and frustration and fear I heard in people's voices on that phone for hours on end. I had two people who were clearly suicidal in a single day. We had a bomb threat in the office. We hid our work ID's when we left the building. Ultimately I couldn't handle it anymore. I had a nervous breakdown dealing with the stress of trying to juggle the morals in my head. Was I doing a good thing, helping those in need? I did my best to be friendly and helpful, even bent a few rules as best I could to improve strangers' chances - and I got 'words' from managers who were listening in on calls silently who disapproved of how I handled certain cases. I realised no matter how hard I tried I was still part of an evil system designed to keep the downtrodden down and scare people into working pointless demeaning jobs all over the country. That was my job - an instrument of terror. So after only a few short months I talked to my supervisor about how my health was preventing me from continuing. I couldn't sleep, I was overeating, I was constantly getting high after work and my body was falling apart alongside my mental wellbeing. So I stopped working there and put myself into that same system I'd helped enforce and became unemployed. To someone not in the know the DWP might just seem like a banal office job, just people in suits doing a boring but necessary job. But in reality the DWP has caused the suffering of many thousands of people, many of whom died due to its decisions. And the people who made those decisions were hidden away from the public - just faceless "decision makers" who even I as an employee never saw. People who never had to speak to the people who's lives they were impacting, who's only interest was hitting quotas set by corrupt politicians. It is an evil organisation. And I was briefly part of it. And that sickens me. Moreso when I realise how much I missed that paycheque. I was so close to being tempted into accepting evil, and the price was insultingly low.

[@JDog2656]

So basically it’s like the insurance job in The Incredibles. Yeah, that’s pretty messed up

[@wanderingrandomer]

I've been on the dole a few times in my life, and having to deal with Jobseeker's Allowance/Universal Credit is very soul-crushing. I constantly felt like I was doing something wrong when talking to the DWP.

[@FureyinHD]

Wow. Have you ever written an article about this? I'd think big issue would like to publish your words, for one.

[@loobkoob]

And the worst thing is that it drives the good people (like you) out, and all that remains are the people who are either not too upset with how things are or actively in favour of making unemployed or disabled people suffer. Which ensures the system stays broken.

[@vincentskytree3189]

I know this reply is a month late, and someone already said this in 'ur' comment section but u need to write an article on this, I'm sure many ppl (like me) would be interested in seeing something like that in most likely a slightly left-leaning newspaper like big issue or the guardian

[@greatstationsyt]

I love Partagaz. He reminds me of an old professor leading a seminar more than a military leader which I think is really interesting.

[@heltaku9397]

Yes he's a great character. He's very intelligent and good at his job, but he also treats most of civilization like it's his own little ant farm.

[@The_CGA]

This is inspired by the CIA, where there are occasionally apocryphal stories that come out of various groups within Langley that operate like Partagaz, running an Academy more than a Military

[@rondomane]

@@The_CGA Well how else do you brainwash legions of willing state dogs to go out and get their hands bloody for the empire, am i talking about star wars or the united states? take your pick.

[@hansnoor9637]

@@The_CGA So basically Ender's Game?

[@danimalfarm]

I think that, inevitably, his tolerance for freethinking in his underlings will be his downfall. The Empire doesn't want critical thinkers who debate and question.

[@Ash21]

fun fact: they was going to slightly humanize the Empire in RotJ in a deleted scene: the officer in control of the death star's laser is ordered to blow up endor if the shield bunker gets destroyed by the rebels, he questions the order but is simply forced to follow orders. Then once the bunker is destroyed, he continues on with the order but is very clearly upset by it. Then once the death star is locked on, he hesitates for a few seconds waiting with dread before giving the order to fire as he looks down in shame, ultimately giving the rebels enough time to destroy the station before it fires.

[@semirionu]

Damn, what a shame they deleted this. The original trilogy is pretty much good vs evil, this could've given it some more depth.

[@Intranetusa]

​@@semirionu The ironic and sad thing is I've heard/read from some folks that they DON'T want any depth to Star Wars. They want Star Wars to be their escapist fantasy from reality and want it to be a simple fairy tale of good vs evil, black vs white. Some of the negative reviews I've seen of Andor repeated this theme that Andor's grim reality of moral shades of grey on both sides doesn't fit their escapist fantasy version of Star Wars.

[@Intranetusa]

The ironic and sad thing is I've heard/read from some folks that they DON'T want any depth to Star Wars. They want Star Wars to be their escapist fantasy from reality and want it to be a simple fairy tale of good vs evil, black vs white. Some of the negative reviews I've seen of Andor repeated this theme that Andor's grim reality of moral shades of grey on both sides doesn't fit their escapist fantasy version of Star Wars.

[@badideabearcub2747]

@@Intranetusa I don’t understand thatt. The first movie had depth. There was commentary after comeentary by George Lucas explaining his metaphors. Soul vs Matter. The mind vs the machine. Real life Politics. David vs Goliath. But then , toys started to sell like crazy...

[@olimar7647]

@@Intranetusa I feel like I'm somehow a blend. I love what Andor did, and I love the probing questions about how messy war gets with who's good and who's bad. But I still want some degree of the clear cut good in evil, chiefly in this: Palpatine was made as a straight up evil villain, and should be kept as such. Some want to make it where he was something of a good guy, like with him seeing the coming Yuuzhan Vong back in legends, and doing what he did for the safety of the Republic. But that's antithetical to who he was made to be, and it doesn't fit with what we learn in the OT and PT. So keep Palpy evil, and let some others follow his pattern, but let still more think they're following noble leaders. Dramatic irony at its finest.

[@lhommepeignoir5057]

Where you see this the most is in the Interrogation scene. When you boil it down, the scene is showing evil so terrible it's almost absurd: The empire wiped out a species, and uses the dying cries of its children as a way to torture their prisoners... It's hard to beat that level of evil. But the tone with which the Interrogator exposes this is that of a scientist who's exited about the effectiveness of his method. There's no real malice in him, you don't feel like hurting people turns him on. He just likes results and is proud that his method is seen as so useful by his superiors. Really this guy would be just as excited to test out his theories, working for a government who asked him to create the most soothing and relaxing sound ever... But he's working for the Empire, and so his enthusiasm serves their dark purposes.

[@ozlemdenli7763]

I do know if this is a disagreement but Dedra strikes me as more ideologically motivated and willing to go to extreme lengths, such as ordering torture (equivalent of an SS officer in the Nazi regime). She is also higher up in the hierarchy, so bears more responsibility in shaping Empire policy. Cyril's motivations, on the other hand, seems to be a simpler and not so much as result of dedication to the Empire's overall goals. He is also a victim of a devouring/oedipal mother, which seems to reflect on his neurotic obedience to the letter of the law. He does not understand that corruption of the authorities in the outer rim can, in reality, be a strategy for ruling that geography, and ends up being a clog in the machine. I love your reviews. Thank you

[@colbyboucher6391]

Yep! Dedra is a true believer, Syril is a lonely, boring dude who sees the Empire as a path to an identity and a name for himself. More than that he's kind of Andor's opposite. Andor lived at home with a loving mother, Syril lived at home with a mother who only ever nagged. Andor wants nothing to do with the empire, but he's stuck on a planet it wants to control and couldn't escape it if he tried. Syril wants nothing more than to contribute, lives in the empire's capital and can't get their attention if he tries. It's showing two very different paths for a directionless dude living under a fascist regime, and how it's pretty much down to where they lived and how observant they were.

[@DewNotDisturb]

I was about to comment that dedra seems more evil than syril

[@florianhoppe4159]

Also, a few years ago I read an fascinating interview with one of Eichman Trial procecutors, who basically said that Arendt was talking bullox. Eichmann did NOT just follow orders. He was a fanatic antisemite and true believer to the Nazi cause.

[@mathiasbartl903]

@@DewNotDisturb You think?

[@Toidal]

I think it's reversed actually. Dedras born and raised in the system and knows no other authority. It seems like if a reckoning came for her, she'd be very much 'I was just following orders.' in service of her country. Whereas Cyril, a low level person of authority, gets thrown out and is given a glimpse of the authority and competency of the Empire and is becoming a true believer of what it represents because he identifies himself with it.

[@babyjesus9011]

As someone who lives in Iran under the Islamic Republic regime, I relate to the show a lot and I see undeniable similarities between the show and real life.

[@whakjob]

Nimiks speech in the last episode is perfect , if that can be translated into persian with the scene and flooded in Iran social media channels that will work very well. albiet spoil the show . but honestly while watching the last few episodes I had Iran in mind. so heartful so see some middle aged men in the protests who probably were part of the problem all their lives but pushed over the edge by their own conscience that tells them that what the government is doing is oppressive and unnatural.

[@ozlemdenli7763]

Many people in Turkey respect and salute the brave people of Iran

[@rondomane]

and the inspiration for the ISB is the cause of it. august 1953.

[@colinrice6865]

Godspeed!

[@JoJo-vg8dz]

It reminds me more of the apartheid in Israël, where Palestinians are persecuted regularly by armed forces. Very similar to Andor because it's occupying forces. The empire is also occupying foreign territories, and deporting indigenous people. People they despise like Israeli soldiers despise Palestinians.

[@AynenMakino]

Thing is, on average, nobody wants to think about the full implications of their lives. It gets too big. It costs too much time and effort while they live already stressfull lives. To get by, people need a manageable 'model of reality' that they can run in their minds cheaply. This is very easy to exploit, and that exploitation is very hard to fight because it takes energy to realize how you're being exploited, and even more energy to go against that exploitation. Energy most people feel they don't have.

[@kagitsune]

Exactly. That's the entire project of capitalism. Keep people just desperate enough to not have time to think too hard about what they're doing.

[@cjxgraphics]

Agreed. Even things as simple as where do my clothes come from? is the cotton fair trade? I don't know man, I'm just trying to get by.

[@colprom]

@@kagitsune If you truly believe that is all capitalism is though, you are part of the opposite problem.

[@christopherbowers7236]

they explore this a bit in "the good place" of all things. nobody has got into heaven in thousands of years, because of all the implications behind something as simple as wandering into a shop and ordering a coffee. some poor slave-driven farmer who grew the beans. the Carbon footprint of shipping all the components of it. deforestation for the cups. maybe the coffee company CEO is a sex-criminal. taking business away from a local company. dodgy farming practices to get the milk. every single decision got more complex the more connected the world got.

[@AynenMakino]

@@christopherbowers7236 I think the trick there is to become a participant in shaping the world. If you participate in moving the world in the right direction, you might not single-handedly 'save' it, but it's not about you.

[@X-VoodooKing-X]

When Dedra suggested leaving the insurgent pilot dead in the cockpit of his ship so that the Rebel faction didn't think the ISB intercepted him, that too me was the most chilling of all. She said it in such a way like it was all in the natural course of work. Her supervisor just agreed with it, he did not even attempt to dissuade her or try another way. Can you imagine in today's society if such a thing is happening and we don't know about it? A government intelligence agency taking a human life in the natural course of their work. Luthen displays the same qualities too, like when his ISB mole told him about the ambush that another Rebel group was walking into, he summed it up that it was merely the cost of Rebellion. At least Saw displayed some attempts to try to save that group.

[@ZontarDow]

It's actually worst because in today's society there are agencies that are known to do that, but because it's ones like the MSS in China or FSS in Russia we just accept it as something inherent to tyrannical governments and only care when they do it in our countries like when the FSS assassinated a man in London.

[@LordVader1094]

"Can you imagine in today's society if such a thing is happening and we don't know about it? A government intelligence agency taking a human life in the natural course of their work." Ever hear of the CIA, NSA, FBI, ATF, etc?

[@merlaak]

Luthen understood the cost better than anyone, including Saw. In the scene where Luthen tells Saw not to go on the mission, there are a couple times where Saw says, "30 men!" Each time, Luthen responds with, "Plus Kreegyr." Luthen knew the cost and was unwilling to ignore it out of convenience. In doing so, he willingly sacrificed his soul in order to do the work that had to be done. It's an interesting dichotomy if you think about it. Syril is seen as evil even though all he wanted to do was capture a known murderer and terrorist. Luthen is seen as good even as he sends 30 men (plus Kreegyr) to be slaughtered just to protect a mole in the ISB.

[@supremeownage8995]

At least Luthen understands the cost, and accepts the shame of the act. As he said, he's forced to use the tools of his enemy.

[@j.a.6310]

@@LordVader1094 You know the US isn't the only country that exists right? Weird choice of examples.

[@stephenhenderson6404]

The idea maybe true of the overall depiction of the ISB and Empire but the description of Syril Karns character seems wrong. He is depicted as not fitting in with his fellow workers, he is actually a true believer amongst others who are more like cogs in the machine. He is shown to have some inner need to prove himself, possibly feelings of inadequacy. He is a zealot. He doesn't "just follow orders" - actually he disobeys them to pursue Andor.

[@michaliskoufos6911]

You may be on something there and I like your way of thought. But I suspect something else about Karns. There is a new small factor in his tormented soul. He has some "strange" feelings about Dedra and I'm not talking about gratitude, professional admiration or even some envy. All these are natural and obvious. There is something else, something Oedipus complex deep that has evolved, slowly and almost shyly, a twisted erotic connection between them and after their last scene together in the final episode I honestly believe that she has some ''strange" feelings too, hidden beneath the surface off the Ice Queen. Absolutely nailed it with the zealot!

[@christopherbowers7236]

for sure, cyril is an idealist, thats part of why he worships dedra so much, she represents the ideal of Pure order for him,

[@vegiimite]

I like the fact that when Syril Karns goes about apprehending Andor, who is a double murderer, he is actually making the moral choice.

[@mattpluzhnikov519]

Except, @@vegiimite , that that WASN'T the moral choice, and the fact that he THINKS it is is 1) a result of his indoctrination of valuing order and procedure, on principle and UNFLINCHINGLY, and 2) literally what this video is about: people doing evil as a result of BELIEVING themselves to be merely taking part in apolitical, unbiased systems and processes, when those systems in fact are VERY biased and political. Anyone with any significant power within the Empire either wants to see the Empire thrive and stomp out disorder and resistance, or has reached a similar position as such folks, but sees THROUGH the Empire's lies and is working towards the opposite goal of trying to dismantle it. Consequently, basically having even having just an OUNCE of power over others imbues otherwise apolitical people into wielding political power, and, particularly at the lower rungs, either they don't even REALIZE it, or maybe don't particularly care or might be too DRUNK to care, as was the case with the first two Pre-Mor security officers, or, in the case of someone like Karn, they DO realize that they're wielding power, but are convinced that they're JUSTIFIED in their actions. [Major, MAJOR Spoilers; tagging juuuuust in case] Cassian MAY have committed a double homicide, but 1) it was, as Karn's superior accurately assessed, a case of "Wrong place, Wrong time," EXACERBATED by the fact that the officers were waaaaaay overreacting to Andor not paying much attention to/being dismissive towards them, thus CREATING the Wrong place, Wrong time scenario that led to their deaths in the FIRST place. 2) The deaths were the result of Andor acting in self-preservation; the first was totally accidental, and the second was to escape being unjustifiably harshly punished for the first. And, finally, 3a) Karn possessed NONE of that exculpatory info before deciding that Andor must be pursued in the same way one would try to track down a ruthless killer, except that, 3b) oh wait, no, as I already pointed out, his superior managed to glean from nuanced details that the dead officers were in an area where they SHOULDN'T'VE been to BEGIN with...but Karn quite clearly chose to DISREGARD those significant details in pursuit of his overzealous, order-establishing AND making-a-name-for-himself agenda.

[@LordVader1094]

He believes in justice, which he believes is needed after 2 people are murdered. He ignores who they were and why they were murdered, and focuses on the injustice of being told to cover it up.

[@adamsakauye1395]

This is very, very good. Whenever I see works like these I can't help but think about Louis Athusser's paper "Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses", and Slavoj Žižek's film "The Pervert's Guide to Ideology". The line "Institutions have this habit of posing themselves as natural" spoke to me like a firecracker. It's true. You can literally watch people try to make you think some power dynamic they benefit from is just the natural way it's meant to be. It's like experiencing culture shock. I had an old prof tell me "the moment you think, 'that's the way it is', they fucking got you."

[@ozlemdenli7763]

that is an interesting approach

[@sophsstardust]

1000% agreed. I love that line from your professor, sounds like a great teacher

[@brettmarshall5895]

My favorite lines in this show was when Mon-Mothra was voicing her concerns that the government was getting to power at the party. And her fellow senator said there is nothing to worry about if you’ve done nothing wrong. And in the next scene, Cassian is hiding out on that beach planet, and gets picked up by the robot and he keep saying “I’ve done nothing wrong! I’ve done nothing wrong!”

[@guguigugu]

in a dictatorship, "wrong" is defined differently every day, according to the whims of the one(s) in power. unlike the rule of law, there is no set definition to rely on. you can become "wrong" overnight.

[@toomanyaccounts]

he was looking around. remember what he said when meeting luthien about how he snuck into places he wasn't supposed to be. A real tourist wouldn't be looking around like that with what was going on.

[@jpjordan90]

A big part of it as well is showing good guys doing bad things. Andor kills 2 people at the start. Luthen is willing to sacrifice Kreegyr. When this contrasts with Syril and Dedra who are doing their job to keep the peace (as they see it), it makes for really intetesting grey areas.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Stuff like that happens irl as well. When the allies cracked the ENIGMA code they often could hear Germans giving orders to sink ships but had to sacrifice them anyway so the Axis wouldn't figure out their code was cracked. They had to keep it for the big stuff. Like Midway

[@Synthonym]

Sadly the sacrifice of Kreegyr was the right call. Having a high-up informant in the ISB was simply far too valuable to risk on saving Kreegyr and his men. Luthen tells the guy that outright. I'm glad they're really showing the dark side of revolution. It's dirty work, and not everyone will make it to see the end

[@astupiddvdcase]

Its like Churchill, Wilson, Truman etc. all these ppl who were on the good guys side werent exactly saints

[@Croz89]

Indeed, while Syril's methods may have been questionable, his motivations were not. Two of his officers had been murdered, and his push to investigate their deaths despite being rebuffed arguably shows a rather admirable quality, that he cares about the people that work for him and will fight to bring justice if they are harmed. And of course, Andor doesn't get a moral free pass because he's on the right side of history.

[@shanz7758]

@@Croz89 I think it also shows that there are no evil and good people, only evil and good acts. Killing the second guard was clearly evil of Andor (honestly, the first one is clearly an accident), even though we can totally understand why he does that. It doesn't mean that Andor is someone evil, it just means that he has done something evil.

[@EB-fc2mp]

I think one of the best things Andor did was have the empire apply force to ordinary people with much fewer stormtroopers than we're used to seeing in star wars. Like in real life, where they don't send in the military to shut down every single protest, in Andor the empire mostly makes use of much more ordinary looking Imperial Army troopers, who are notably armed in the Ferrix riot with 'Less Lethal' batons and shields - only the few stormtroopers present have blasters. As in real life, in Andor oppressors armed with non lethal weapons are still oppressors. It's also worth noting that it wasn't the people of Ferrix that started the riot, but the Empire - rather than face criticism the Governor tried to shut down a protest that until that point entirely was non-violent by violently throwing the speaker (B2/Maarva) to the ground. Again, another reflection of how protests have turned violent throughout history.

[@Badartist888]

Just take a look at recent times. Most deaths and riots that come from protests come from kettling. Which, basically, is squeezing the protest into itself until people inevitably snap due to being squashed then arresting them for rioting.

[@ausaskar]

A rebel brought a bomb, even if that dude didn't come out and put a jacket over the droid things still would have gone pear shaped as the hologram itself was inciting a riot. One of the other points of the show was that the rebels were willing to instigate atrocities from the Empire as a form of accelerationism.

[@diegoleonardia5358]

@@ausaskar Thats Luthen's idealogy, and while he is the face of the rebellion for Cassian, he isnt the entirety of the rebellion. Luthen is also a direct comparison to the ISB. The difference is the ISB feels no empathy, no remorse for its actions. That doesnt absplvd Luthen. He's still a shitty person. But Luthen at least acknowledges how fucked up the things he's doing are, and how all of it for something he cant even guarantee. On the other hand, the people of Ferrix aren't rebels. Sure they rioted, and Maarva's speech was inciting a riot, but the Empire instigated it more by covering B2. The Imperials were the organised, trained force, not the other way around.

[@shanz7758]

@@diegoleonardia5358 To be fair, up until the bomb explodes, the troopers are only protecting their governor and arresting people that throw things their way. Granted, the governor's actions were stupid and too harsh. But honestly, he just stopped a video, and a guy comes up to him and kicks him hard enough to bring him to the ground while he is surrounded by an angry mob. I think we are being dishonest if we don't admit that though the empire is clearly authoritarian, the people of Ferrix have also escalated things. I doubt that we can't agree if someone is listening to a speech on tv, and you come to the remote to stop the tv, they don't have the right to kick you. So yeah, the governors response to the speech inciting riot was a bit overeactive. But the reaction of the people of Ferrix too. One could argue that up until the "fuck the empire" from Marvaa, the empire would have let the rest of what happened slip, if the people of Ferrix had just gone on with the ceremony and not rioted.

[@phangkuanhoong7967]

i think it's also really smart to show Karn's mother with her own brand of authoritarian love, as well as Luthen's brand of ironfist control over his rebels. Also awesome that Luthen recognizes fully what he's doing when he said he is forced to use the tools of the Empire to fight the Empire. As in, when you live under an authoritarian power, you will become, to some degree, an authoritarian too.

[@presentfuture7563]

The mothers are everything in this show!!! I work in the field of psychology so my take is that what we usually deem "evil" is just the result of maladaptive or antisocial behavioral responses to trauma...sometimes the most "mundane" trauma, like having a parent who cannot meet our needs. Cassian was already a traumatized youth when Maarva picked him up, but she modeled unconditional love and gave him the freedom to make mistakes. He may have acted out and gotten into trouble, but he had an underlying sense of integrity (e.g., demanding no more than his share rather than taking off with Skeen and the money). Syril had judgment, condemnation, control and infantilization from the get-go, he was never good enough for mom, and developed into a rigid authoritarian.

[@maxgraham2030]

Your voice eq is perfect. Thank you. So many channels have abrasive voice processing

[@toamastar]

Not only is this show incredible but the discussions surrounding it are too! Not just the conversations about it being the best Star Wars media and why but the politics and philosophy as well. Its one of the most thought provoking pieces of media in recent history!

[@DoolallyProductions]

After my Army platoon killed two civilians in Korea during a live fire exercise (Many Koreans don't recognize the US Army and the boundaries we use for exercises and some entered the area where we just started firing mortar shells and were obliterated) and their deaths were just swept under the rug, I decided my military career was over. Everyone acted like nothing happened, two dead, more wounded, and it was just another day at the office for almost everyone involved. That to me is the banality of evil.

[@toomanyaccounts]

what you said nonsense. The Korean army routinely does live fire and even picks up the brass. The boundaries they use to mark such areas are the same ones as the US Army in Korea. Due to their law every SK male is in the military.

[@dominictemple]

“There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.” Terry Pratchett - Small Gods

[@mickys8065]

What I loved about Dedra is now she reacts when all hell breaks loose in the final episode. Because she instantly looses all control and power. Her power is the empire standing behind her and saying you have to listen. But the fist of the empire is busy fighting in the streets, leaving Dedra alone in the mud in a jacket that clearly displays she's the enemy. She could've easily been killed, by accident or deliberately, by either side for any reason. When Syril saves her, but before he reveals his identity, her fear is palpable, because she is truly helpless. The man dragging her along could be saving her, kidnapping her, taking her to be shot, or using the chaos to take advantage of her. And that choice is purely in the hands of the man behind her, a power she had wielded for the entire show and only lost mere minutes ago. But, in season 2, there's a very strong chance she seamlessly regained her power the moment the empire regains stability on the planet. But in that brief tilt she would've easily fallen through the cracks and have never been missed. A new lieutenant would take her sector and that's that. That's the culmination of her true power, when everything is taken away. Compare her to Andor, who's repeatedly had any power he's had stripped away, but he always rebuilds it, power that is uniquely his.

[@guguigugu]

it was almost uncomfortable to see her in such distress, i almost felt sad for her. also shows the skill of the actress to pull it off so convincingly.

[@mikekolokowsky]

Robert Macnamara, Sec of Defense during Vietnam is a good example of ordinary evil. He calculated with X body count of enemy, we win. To get there, you drop Y bombs, run Z missions, etc. He didn’t know that by asking for dead bodies, the field commanders would just start killing civilians. Also didn’t know that Ho Chi Min didn’t care about body count. Could have lost two times the number, four times the number, and he would have never given up. Ho was Luthien, Macnamara was the bureaucrat.

[@erikengheim1106]

This error seems repeated over and over again by the US. I read an account of somebody who had worked for the CIA who talked about work in Thailand I believe. There was this idea that there was X number of communists and by killing Y number every month or whatever they would win in X/Y months. It is sort of absurd Excel spreadsheet strategy. It was similar in Vietnam. When the death count was suddenly larger than estimated X after many months their calculations were thrown off. The pattern that kept emerging every single place was that as you kill rebels more join. Ever man killed is the brother, son or friend of somebody. Those people will mourn, get angry and pickup a gun to continue the fight. This way there is no fixed number of rebels to kill. It is an endless supply as long as there are citizens with relationships and families. Same deal in Afghanistan. You simply cannot kill your way to victory when you are essentially fighting a whole nation. Well... the US kind of did in the Korean War. By what is hard to describe as anything but mass murder of civilians, they terrorized the North into submission by simply killed something like 20% of the whole population. Not even Djengis Khan in his brutality managed to kill that high fraction of the population. Of course the US is not alone in following such logic, but it is a country which has tried to champion itself as defender of human rights and freedom.

[@SuperCrow02]

@@erikengheim1106 Genghis Khan killed waaaay higher percentages of the populations of places he conquered than 20%. I don't think it's a stretch to call him the most evil person to ever live. He wiped out 2/3's of the Iranian population alone for example. "Of course the US is not alone in following such logic, but it is a country which has tried to champion itself as defender of human rights and freedom." This is literally the reason why the US was unable to win wars in the Middle East and Vietnam. They assumed they could fight conventionally and win, forcing the enemy to surrender. And every battle they fought conventionally was by all means an overwhelming victory, guerilla warfare is much more difficult however. The only proven way to fight a guerilla war is with brutality (look at wars like the Second Boer War, where the British only started winning after they literally imprisoned the entire hostile population they were fighting against in concentration camps), and the US public understandably was simply not willing to go along with that due to the values you just described and the US military had to cut their losses and pull out.

[@erikengheim1106]

@@SuperCrow02 I don't think the US could have won with non-conventional brutal warfare however because it would have undermined one of their greatest strengths which has been a large number of allies. We could already see in the Vietnam war how protests against the war began spreading all over the world. A more brutal war and the US would have risked being in the same situation as Russia today: Facing sanctions imposed by most other powerful nations. Heavy sanctions would have undermined US economy. We can see how even the Russians today don't resort to British tactics during the Boer war. They even waited quite long before knocking of power stations. Thus even a brutal regime like the Russian one has to care about public perception to some degree. You are always fighting an information war. You need some level of plausible deniability.

[@SuperCrow02]

@@erikengheim1106 "We could already see in the Vietnam war how protests against the war began spreading all over the world. A more brutal war and the US would have risked being in the same situation as Russia today: Facing sanctions imposed by most other powerful nations." The point is that the US was incapable of doing what was necessary to win these wars. It isn't a bad thing, in fact it is a very good thing that the US military is held accountable to the US public in the way that it is. The US definitely wouldn't be sanctioned though considering it was the only thing protecting Europe from the Iron Curtain and the USSR at the time. The reality is that the North Vietnamese wanted victory far more than the Americans did, and the Americans weren't willing to fight as savagely as would have been necessary to win the war. It just goes against American values and simply wouldn't have been worth it. Besides, Vietnam is more of an ally to the US than it is to China or Russia today anyway, so pulling out was clearly the right call even if the US could have technically won a longer, bloodier war.

[@erikengheim1106]

@@SuperCrow02 You forget that Europe sided with the US against the USSR because the latter was totalitarian. I think in the US one often thinks it was all about preserving capitalism or something. But when my native Norway joined NATO e.g. we were run by socialists who were actually semi-positive towards the Soviet Union. If the US had acted both totalitarian and capitalist it would have made the US less attractive than the USSR to many people. Many people were already very positive to socialism. It is just that they valued democracy higher. If the US had acted even worse than the Soviet Union then I am not convinced we would have continued to be allies. Remember the Soviets failed to win in Afghanistan. You could make exactly the same argument that they failed to win because they were not brutal enough. But that goes to show that even "regular" Soviet brutalism wasn't sever enough. To win in Vietnam the US would have had to get significantly more brutal than the USSR. If the USSR was the more brutal country, why would the rest of us side with the US? It would make the USSR look like the protector of human decency. In many countries NATO membership was already controversial. In Norway the dominant political party shattered because of the NATO question. If the US had acted too brutal then the ranks of the anti-NATO parties would have swelled in many countries. As for pulling out. The US should have done that on day one and saved both sides a lot of hardship. Wars achieve very little. Russia is learning the same lesson now.

[@sophiaisabelle027]

The Canvas certainly goes far and beyond in terms of making the best content. Kudos to them.

[@s7robin105]

I highly recommend Star Wars The Clone Wars, there’s a few episodes with similar themes to that of Andor. I also recommend Rogue One as well as it’s what lead to the creation of Andor as a series

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

Also check out The Bad Batch.

[@anthonyortiz350]

Could you please recommend which episodes you think are similar with andor?

[@s7robin105]

@@anthonyortiz350 Largely the ones focused around the clones and a few others around Padme that go into the political aspects and her trying to reach a peace deal with the separatists. It's been awhile since I watched the show so I can't name them off the top of my head

[@shawndidstuffbeforehehadki806]

Fantastic video! This banality is the exact reason I was so impressed and enthralled with Andor--as an admittedly lazy Star Wars fan. There are so many unique details throughout that display this banality. One that stands out to me (spoiler) is when Andor is in the prison/work camp, the guards make an off-hand remark that they don't have enough staff to assist with intaking Andor. Usually in prison movies, being understaffed is kind of felt during an escape attempt, but having the guards grumble and complain about that fact during a remedial task is just good cinema.

[@mollykisthart8900]

One of my favorite quotes in one of my favorite books is “he just had to wait and hope the laziness of bureaucracy would do the rest”. And SW has a lot of this. The banality of evil also allows holes that can be exploited. The Death Star is kinda like a big example of this. Seems so big and uniform but because it’s so big it has week spots no one notices.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

The Death Star is basically a big dumb Nazi "wunderwaffe" like oversized tanks and other wasteful projects they came up with that. 10000 Shermans are better than 100 of any big dumb german tank they couldn't mass produce

[@dirtydan2721]

@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan Yeah in hind-sight the wunderwaffe big dumb tanks were a big dumb idea but at the start of the war they had tanks that could be penetrated by machine gun fire, eventually they put actual tank guns on the tanks, at some point they go to the next logical step, the bigger tank gun on the bigger tank. This didn't really pay off but is one of the possible ways to develop a tank that was explored and failed. It doesn't really stand out that much when you look at all the successful tanks compared to the relatively few big dumb tanks that steal all the attention. The blitzkreig was basically fought with panzer 1s and 2s with autocannons, to reach the point where you need to stop and just stop exactly there and go no further with tank size development is a difficult thing to do.

[@Anon-qp3kt]

The Death Star is a good analogy but for a different reason. Your reasoning is wrong tho. The Death Star has 1 weakness and it is only unnoticable due to bureaucracy because nobody involved with the project thought to go over their schematics. Even the ones that did have the intelligence to do it didn't do it/didn't tell anyone because they didn't want to look like a fool and be upstaged. See Krennic and Tarkin

[@jamesmc4080]

i loved this show. it showed that you can make something great within the star wars universe without lightsabers and force users. it brought to life the gritty and unorganized beginnings of the rebellion.

[@jeffbo8748]

Not gonna lie, intersplicing the Imperial Riot Troopers with a riot cop being asked if he likes Star Wars is one of the most darkly funny things I’ve seen in a while.

[@leehayes4019]

At its core the banality of evil was an inability to have empathy.

[@RictusHolloweye]

Or perhaps an unconscious decision to not employ empathy.

[@ben-asinus]

I am not so sure about that and I don't thinkt that you have proof for that. For example Hitler. He had empathy for his dog. That's a fact. And I am sure that most Nazis had family, women and children they loved. That's empathy. Probably many of them had no ability for empathy. But you should read some of their letters (for example german soldiers who fought in Poland/Russia an extremly brutal war). They are writing in their letters about this war and how cruel they are. The core of these letters and so this war are two thing: "the end justifies the means" and the Dehumanization of their enemies. Jewish were no humans for them. And also in Star Wars you can see Dehumanization of the Enemies of the Empire and also that "the end justifies the means". Stability of the Empire is above everything else. That's the core of evil. "Everyone is necessarily the hero of his own life story.” and "A villain is a hero of the other side."

[@ben-asinus]

@@RictusHolloweye All the brutal regimes I can think about have very conscious programms to stop empathy for specific groups of people by dehumanizing propaganda. Maybe it's so deep in these regimes and their followers that it becomes unconscious. As unconscious as we believe in human rights or racism in the USA 200 when slaves were legal.

[@solarsailor1534]

It’s very easy to be selective about who you feel empathy for. For example Syril Karn probably feels a lot of empathy for the corporate cops he works with. He knows their names and possibly families. He probably doesn’t even think about the people the Empire enslaves daily. They are just faceless statistics for him. In fact this kind of selective empathy is often weaponized by evil governments. It’s hard to condemn evil when it’s committed by ordinary people your close with against nameless strangers in distant places.

[@agentchristos]

This reminds me of S03E05 from Black Mirror. Would highly recommend people check it out.

[@Bazookatone1]

What I like about syrils character is that he's so close to being a genuinely good person, he wants to investigate a double murder, that's something a good honest policeman would do, he believes in the work they do, he really does think its for the greater good - had he had a more compassionate upbringing, he might have gone down a different path.

[@alexir05]

I first subbed for your commentary on paintings, however, I love your analyses on other forms of art/media!

[@darkhope97]

Gotta say about syril that thoses Values you mentioned he cared for were part of the Values showed by the clone troopers and seing his toy clone soldiers makes you realize that despite just seeing them on the news they were probably the only positive influence he had growing up considering his toxic relationship with its mother

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

It's even more sad if you realize what the Empire did with the clones after the war.

[@triloization]

I remember reading Hannah Arendt when I was younger. I am from Germany and my father told me what his father told him about the times when the SA came to his Jewish neighbors and wanted to burn their house. I told that ordinary people tried to help them and that they stole from the house gods. And the very same people sat in the church the following Sunday, thinking of themselves as good Christians. My grandfather lost his faith in humans in this time and never trusted "good Christians" again. Ordinary people were the pillar of the Nazis. Beware of them.

[@SoopSoopa]

Thank you for sharing

[@DragonNyah]

Just discovered you channel. Really good content. It's so sad how clearly we can see this ordinary evil in our world once we know what to look for, but most people don't know what to look for.

[@garreswe]

What I love the most about Andor is that it's so realistic, even though they have space ships and shoot lasers. What's most important is that the characters act like real people and this is something I VERY rarely see in movies/shows nowadays. People are rarely "pure evil" like movie baddies, who very often want to rule or destroy the world. In Andor they have real motivations and struggles, just like in real life.

[@Thoron_of_Neto]

It's hard to write real characters, because even a team of writers are only a handful of people. Whomever wrote Andor, has a rare talent to write situations that allow for real characters, and then actually can write how those characters would behave.

[@WCGOLD27NZ]

Great video essay. You articulated exactly what I have been trying to do since watching the series. The approach to the series was to allow viewers to see normal people, doing normal things that can lead to dire and potential catastrophic ends. The lack of understanding or unwilling desire to think beyond their immediate concerns and/or roles ultimately drives the collective 'hive' minded system to behave in ways that individually they wouldn't necessarily do or agree with, but as part of the machine, it is not only tolerated but advocated and then rewarded for doing so. While demonstrating what normal people from all walks of life are compelled to rebel against the regime/ machine/ the banality and subsequently willing to sacrifice in order and service to the greater good. One side accepting that this is normal and 'I'm only doing my job' combined with the inherent human desire to compete and dominate. The other, unwilling to accept the status quo whilst risking everything for the sake of the cause, however nebulous that may be. It's great writing, story telling and film making.

[@joshthompson8506]

This is very relatable to some of what I've been feeling about my own country's regime recently. It's like I know what's happening and how people feel, but you put it into words in a way I couldn't quite pin down. Bravo sir, subscribed.

[@jwurnig]

Andor reminds me a lot of reading "Burmese Days" by George Orwell in High School when he criticized the British officers who were engaged in unspeakable violence in India not out of a sense of personal cruelty or racism but as a means of advancing themselves in their careers by doing whatever they felt they needed to do in order to preserve order. Some things never change.

[@ForwardslashTim]

Sociologist Max Weber wrote extensively on the role bureaucracy plays in separating authority (those giving orders) from those individuals just doing their jobs (putting those orders into action). I thought Andor did a masterful job of creating a story where "good guys" and "bad guys" aren't simplistic to the point of wearing white hats and black hats respectively.

[@e21big]

Ironic, for the benal evil I saw, is a man who not hesitated for a second to kill to cover his crime - a surrendered, scare and begging man from the first episode. If anything, I think Andor actually shows that you don't have to be with the authority to be evil. Their are honest and dedicated men who served the Empire (who never commit any direct act of evil through and through), and there are Rebels whose lied, cheated and murder all in the name of the revolution. And that was a great display of the dichotomy of evil.

[@MrKite_]

R1 and Andor made a fantastic job on this area,as well as rebelds,where the constant competition inside the empire shows too

[@ParisuSama]

I think you really missed this mark on this by centring your thesis on “Evil”. Nietzsche described “evil” as a lens humans use to “project their own subjective disapproval onto events and actions”, and that’s what makes this show so great. It takes way from someone’s actions when you describe them as evil because it implies a universal (and sometimes divine) morality that bad people knowingly oppose. Cassian murders someone after they witnessed him accidentally kill someone else. They even said they’d protect him and say it was an accident because they knew they were about to be murdered. Cassian acted in his own interest and ended a life because he was afraid of the consequences of his actions. Some people could argue that they were bad guys anyway so the crime of being corrupt deserved the punishment of death, and that’s where it all gets interesting. The whole show is like that.

[@jimmyboy131]

The world of Andor springs directly from the prologue to the 1976 novelization of A New Hope, which are the very first words we ever get from anything Star Wars (which by the way also gives us the essential story of the Prequels and Clone Wars). Here are a few paragraphs : "Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic. Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears. Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions."

[@rottensquid]

I think there's more to both these two characters' motivations than just banal duty to their society. There's something deeper in them that's driving that sense of duty. For Karn, it goes beyond dedication. He wants to be a "hero," not just a cog in the machine. Sure, he wants to avenge his fallen colleagues, but this isn't out of loyalty to them. He couldn't care less about them. It's pure vanity. He wants to matter. That's why he clings on to Meero. In his eyes, she is in a position to bestow on him the approval he's looking for, approval his family life has clearly withheld. He doesn't actually care if what he's doing is right. That sad, empty he gives to his followers speech tells you everything. He knows what a hero is supposed to look like, and is supposed to say. But when he says it, it's empty, and everyone knows it, including him. There's no place in the Empire for heroics. He will never matter. No one in the Empire matters except the Emperor. My money is that he may defect to the rebellion, not because he wants to be a better person, but because the Empire just isn't built to give him what he craves. Meero's motivation is obviously ambition. She's no different from the colleagues she criticizes. Everything she does is to climb the ladder. But what the story goes on to reveal is that her craving for authority comes with a side-dish of cruelty. She doesn't just torture people as a necessity of her work. She loves doing it. In a fascist society, power is built on fear. And since power is the only currency, causing fear is synonymous with wealth. So cruelty is an expression of her ambition, not just a necessary tool. Power is what she wants, because it's the only thing worth having in the Empire. So cruelty becomes her way not just of claiming power, but of enjoying it. All this is to say that there's always something deeper beneath the banality of evil. It's never as simple as following orders, doing one's job. At least, that's my opinion.

[@Rnankn]

Humans are still free agents, even in bureaucracies. They can make moral judgements. Refusing to obey, resigning ones position, being a whistleblower, contacting the press, or even working from the inside to sabotage or spy are available options. Since the Nuremberg trials, “just following orders” is not a legal defense for violating the law - even from soldiers. What makes evil banal is the failure to ethically connect actions with principles, and instead assume ethics is obeying rules. Personally, I find nothing more inspiring than when people with power and status say no to a plan or initiative. By refusing to obey they are preserving their own humanity instead of being a tool of evil

[@rakelodakel]

Very much agree. All cops are bastards exactly because of this, good cops quit, or fight the corruption from the inside.

[@PlayNowWorkLater]

Andor is by far the best story that has come out of the Star Wars universe. Your comparison to the Banality of Evil with the trial of the Ordinary Nazi is perfect. The characters are much more believable as real people and THAT is a fantastic way of having an audience member be able to relate to and be drawn further into the story. Great video!

[@kriminal7009]

So, funnily enough I am reading Eichmann in Jerusalem for my PHIL-400 class, and we talked about “Moral Luck.” In the context of the book, we spoke on how someone might have better moral luck on having been born in a certain time or certain place; two people are speeding/going over 100mph, one person hits and kills a child. While both were doing the same thing, one got unlucky and therefore has a worse outcome even though they were both doing the same thing.

[@Badartist888]

Environment is so important for morality as well. I think about it sometimes in a religious connotation. Like how fair is the system of judgement and heaven/ hell when there are drugged up and brainwashed child soldiers in the world. Even more tame examples of morality like buying fair trade goods or eating vegan are very finance/ location dependant. As someone who tries to be moral where possible in my life, I do believe that being moral is a privilege and that fact should be talked about more. Of course to be fair, I only did lower level philosophy at university so it might have been talked about more in that discussion you mention.

[@jh6031]

Nicely handled analysis for someone who isn’t a SW fan. For the layers and depth of this show to even be considered by what I view to be one of the most intellectual channels I follow is a testament to how terrific Andor is.

[@Т1000-м1и]

I really miss the times when youtube was full of these simple and calm analysis videos

[@AyeshaAhmadPhoto]

Thank you - this is the phrase I was searching for just today in trying to explain to my son what I thought this show had done so well. Andor is some of the best television I’ve seen in a while. I keep rewatching Luthen’s speech, I keep thinking about that prison factory. The entire season breaks my heart. How many unsung heroes are forgotten all the time…? Would I ever have the courage to do what is right when the stakes are that high? At what point does “for the greater good” turn you into that which you fight against?

[@Ocxlocxl]

I mirror your words, I fear I could never be as brave or as foolheardy as the people rebeling, I hope I would be drawn into the drama and take the risk but I also fear I would hide and try and survive. I hope I never have to make those choices but one day I might

[@tnxmxlc9878]

Thanks to deal with such a low-key but intersting show! The vibe through the story his also enhanced by outstanding and various color palette.

[@HelloThere-kd3if]

Didn't expect Star Wars to be discussed here. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

[@davidevans916]

I see what you did there 😉

[@pkpmendez3]

Thank you for always posting such amazing content. This is one my favorite KZbin channels! Keep up the excellent work!

[@manmanlulu]

Can't believe my favorite KZbin Art channel is taking about my favorite show of the year. This was a great watch for several reasons

[@FroJSimpson]

As a corollary to the idea of “the banality of evil in Star Wars,” originally in the prequels the *Order 66* given to execute the Jedi wasn’t a subconscious trigger built into the clone troopers via a microchip-it was one of a number of executive contingency orders that the Grand Army of the Republic were trained in, in the particular case of 66 being, “what the GAR should do in the event that the Jedi Council attempts to overthrow the Galactic Senate.” The clones weren’t coerced into killing their Jedi commanders because of a morality-changing macguffin, they were just soldiers blindly accepting and following orders. Personally I think this is way more impactful than the retcon introduced in The Clone Wars, because it highlights this exact form of evil: doing something you know is wrong, without questioning it at all.

[@thelouisjohnson]

The deconstruction of ‘evil’ is at its most impactful when you’re close enough to see your own reflection in it: there was never an evil to begin with. Star Wars was one of the popularisers of the ‘good vs evil’ narrative. It certainly has the right, in our new globalised world, to lead a new nuanced conversation on it.

[@deepzone31]

Thanks for this. This is great. The nuance of characters in this show makes it sing. I find pieces of myself in Syril, Andor, Vel and Kleya. Everyone is grey but is backed by some form of code. Family, honor, order, religion, rank, justice. Everyone seems invested in a belief system that conflicts with other factions in this show. That speaks to the humanity in the writing. The way you speak about the banality of evil makes the bad guys accessible in a way that you don't see in the pure evil of Tarkin or Sheev Palpatine. It's really hard to believe this made it out of the studio so tightly made with other SW shows floundering.

[@themrfidel]

I really cannot see Syril Karn as "Evil", his character could very well be the hero of a detective story: a cop willing to do everything to catch the man who killed two of his collegues, his superior who shut the case, he trying to go by himself resulting in more member of his squad killed by the same man... He never does anything clearly "evil" he is harsh maybe, but never cruel. The series did a wonderful job at creating every character as belivable and reletable as possible. Even the empire isnt the classical "we are bad because we are, and we murder everyone just because we are written that way". I love that there isnt a clear black and withe, but only different shades of grey!

[@amirm3326]

I live in Iran which currently if you noticed we're running a brand-new revolution here, and we passed that point which people who work in governmental offices, justify their actions by just saying "I'm just doing my work" or "if I don't do it someone else will surely do". we started to identify each and every person who participate in massacres, death sentences for protesters in jail and try to ridicule, attack or by any means show them their action is not just a 'daily routine work'. whether they will understand what they're doing and resign from their jobs, or we show them it's consequences. we are at some point which police officers try to draw a line between themselves and those who brutally oppress protesters by saying "those are not us, they are paid mercenaries funded by 'Sepah' (IRGC) and their agents".

[@whakjob]

if you have seen the last episode and the few lines of NImiks' Manifesto then those are good lines for a revolution. I post those lines in some Iran twitter handles. The regime fears a revolution, that is why they are committing atrocities but it is fragile and will break, I was in tears during that scene because I was thinking of the people of Iran, It is easy for me to say this sitting at my chair, But to all the brave people of Iran I just want to be there, hug you, and say that you guys are not alone and are in the thoughts and prayers of millions across borders. It is high time that young secular people start to revole against the tyranny and oppression of religious zeleots ' nothing against young religious people but sorry sometime your blind faith is the problem "

[@ozlemdenli7763]

excellent argument. my hearth is with all the brave people of Iran, especially the women. Greetings from Turkey

[@0815name0815]

really appreciate the editing and blending in the key words so clean

[@martindunn2066]

So glad to see that so many people are thinking about institutional evil, committed by ordinary people. Vaclav Havel showed us the way out. Just tell the truth. Tell it always. Once you agree with a lie it becomes harder to tell the difference and suddenly one day you can't tell the difference any more. Keep telling us truth, Canvas, and thank you.

[@ironickrempt]

I was shocked by how good Andor was, never though Star Wars would have another go at getting across Lucas’ original message about the US, capitalism, and fascism. Amazing analysis as usual.

[@curiousworld7912]

'Just following orders', or 'just doing my job' is not, and never has been, an acceptable defense. But, an authoritarian society enables otherwise 'normal' people to do terrible things - or, to facilitate and promote policies intolerant of dissent. 'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely', as is said, and authoritarian systems help feed ambitions to hold some of that power, and to be seen as an asset to the system. Questions of morality can be pushed aside, in favor of laws or rules which seek to silence or quell dissent, and to oppress the 'outsider' or the 'other'. I don't know much about 'Star Wars', but there have been, and still are, many authoritarian societies right here on Earth, and plenty of 'normal' people working within those societies to promote and 'protect' the State. Hannah Arendt was right about the 'banality of evil' - if those who commit, or promote policies which allow for the harm to innocents were monsters, it would be easy to dismiss their actions as though they were some natural disaster, outside of human control. But, those who work within these systems are just people - and normal people are capable of extraordinary good, or extraordinary evil.

[@Striker163videos]

Yeah, I've always found the willingness to disregard that excuse rather than study it as deeply unfortunate for our own sake. Those systems make people superfluous. The interesting thing about the Law, at least in the way it was implemented during the Nuremberg Trials(just as an example of a type of Jurisprudence, not an overall generalization of "The Law"), is how it basically forced the Nazis to reconcile with their crimes as individuals rather than as a collective entity. That very few Nazis on trial showed remorse can be interpreted, generally, that they are all just monsters or, alternatively, that they were so dissociated with their actions that the cognitive dissonance was just too extreme for them to reconcile with. As Arendt wrote: "Where all are guilty, no one is. Confessions of Collective Guilt are the best safeguard against the discovery of culprits, and the very magnitude of the crime is the best excuse for doing nothing." I do hope this series encourages a generation of Star Wars fans to explore her work more. Her teachings always helped me tame the Totalitarian tendencies that emerged from all my beliefs. She shrewdly identified that there wasn't anything more Totalitarian about Communism and Fascism than any other ideology in the world; rather, that Class and Race became the predominant issues of the early to mid-20th century, and Totalitarian movements latched onto them. This freed her to openly criticize the Totalitarian elements of McCarthyism that emerged from Anti-Communism simultaneously. In the footnotes of OoT, she made the point that McCarthyism wasn't Totalitarian because it was Anti-Communist; it was Totalitarian because it wanted to force every American to prove they weren't communists. Vise versa, Soviet Style Communism wasn't Totalitarian because it was Communist; it was Totalitarian because it forced everyone to be communist.

[@curiousworld7912]

@@Striker163videos It's like 'corporate evil'. A corporation is considered a 'person' in the US, but who gets held to account when the corporation causes (sometimes) great harm to others? There is always danger inherent in any large organization, which can impact those in and outside of that organization. Of course, there's also the potential for good, but greed seems to get in the way of morality, every time.

[@geronimo5537]

Not following orders and not doing your job. Is exactly how society will outcast you as well. The moment you stop being a cog you get tossed out of the machine like the homeless do. Locked out of everything a typical person takes for granted until its gone. The problem is people are too afraid to risk themselves or their families to make change happen. Unless its someone important making the push. All people will do is continue to do what their told. That is our history. Soon as someone else takes the risk people jump onto the band wagon.

[@davidhafner2836]

Normally these commentary videos are made by people with way too much time on their hands and lack original thought. This video does not fall into that category. I enjoyed every minute of it and will recommend it to others. Great job!

[@haileyguinn5770]

It's like in high school, when I worked at a call center for a debt collections office. My morality versus my seeking for minimum wage were put at odds against each other when I had to call to collect debt from those who had just returned from cancer treatment. (Note: debt collection is not inherently evil, it just provides a good example of how it's easy to sacrifice morals for duty and money.)

[@PantherCat64]

Man, good essay. Very well thought out, calm execution, no real beating around the bush, really good. You know it’s good when you get disappointed it’s over. Amazing work.

[@Striker163videos]

Never has a Star Wars show so thoroughly explored Totalitarianism in power, along with its peculiar ideology of total domination from within through the mass atomization of the whole people, brought about from isolation and erosion of the public trust, and the total elimination of spontaneity in peoples lives. These are the preconditions for turning the actions of every person into reactions so one person cannot be defined separately from all the others. Under such conditions resistance becomes near impossible as not 1o people can come together and form bonds of trust as any semblance of common humanity becomes harder and harder to identify as thinking is replaced by conditioned responses. Totalitarian power, in the views of it’s leaders, is basically created through the organization of isolated people who are atomized into individual units whose coming together, essentially, draw power similarly to how friction or galvanic currents generates electricity. As a result these movements tend to openly defy rationality by adhering to an endless and structureless momentum that must always remain in motion. The only way to enforce this kind of continuous mass momentum is through constant terror and constant purges. Violence, intolerance, and hatred is not based in any constitutionalized set of principles, it’s simply what allows an atomized group of people to remain organized and provides the momentum so necessary for Totalitarian organizations to carry out their murdurous and dominating objectives for dominations sake alone. And never has a show more embodies that the best defense against such an ideology is spontaneity and love, because the only thing that holds it together is hate and terror.

[@Grim_Grim.]

Something I love as well is that in Mandi season 3, they show the people who used to be imperials. They all thought they where doing the right thing, they all where told the rebels where bad, that they need to uphold peace, many imperials also defected and helped the rebels once they found out that their job wasn’t what they signed up for. You can see that there simply normal people who where fighting for what they believe was right. It’s not them whose evil, it’s the empire who are using their good intentions to do bad, who are tricking them into going against their values and hurting others.

[@maxxam4665]

People often say "Oh, this is how Star Wars is supposed to be" and such. I am just hoping we will see the world of Andor and the world of Tales of the Jedis intertwine. Star Wars' galaxy is so big, it would be unfair to tell its story in just one way.

[@DapperManDan]

Season one of Andor was set over a a course of a year, Season two will show events in the remaining 4 years leading up to the events of Rogue One.... Tales of Jedi, two of the three Dooku stories were set prior to The Phantom Menace and his third story was set within the time frame of it. The Ahsoka stories were set before the Clone Wars, during her training and after she left the Jedi Order and after order 66, but before she appeared in Rebels.... if Andor intertwines with any of the other Star Wars series in its second & final season, timeline wise, it will be during the time frame of Rebels...

[@maxxam4665]

@@DapperManDan i meant thematically

[@RandomInternetUser6120]

@@maxxam4665 The Dooku shorts already did to some extent.

[@alexandermillar1202]

Great analysis. This was what I also found most enjoyable about Andor; how plausibly it portrayed a society that found itself transformed into fascism. I think it's also worth noting that the values of the institutions flow from the top, i.e. from the Emperor. Keeping him out of sight was another great part of the show's appeal. His presence is felt like a shadow over everything and is made all the more menacing by its absence. It adds a mystery to evil and somehow amplifies the lengths that administrators are willing to go in order to please such a reclusive figure who hovers over everything. Even if he's not known personally, his power is and his values filter through the bureaucracy. The fish rots from the head down. And of course his true nature is hidden from public view, which adds a layer of plausible deniability to the fact that those in his service are in service to evil. This absence seems to me almost necessary for a truly evil leader to succeed. The show is a great reminder of the personal courage and cost required to stand against institutional evil. It's very easy to assume that our institutions are naturally for the public good, but we know from history how relatively easy they can become tools of great evil. The pressure to go along with such a tide is immense. The decision to stand against the current... who can say for sure that they'd do the right thing?

[@michaelwong8083]

Andor improved the entire Star Wars canon in one fell swoop, by showing us how the Empire's cartoonishly evil qualities could actually be the end-result of a whole lot of people behaving in a more banal and relatable fashion.

[@hallroney]

also when evil is obvious it s always inefficient, but when it s this kind of banal evil it s a real menace both in fiction and real life

[@Thoron_of_Neto]

Isn't it strange that the most blatant of evil, those that do evil for evils sake, for example Kylo Rens (ugh sequel nonsense I know) first appearance, are always so spectacularly incompetent? They should be the most terrifying enemy, willing to murder entire populations to do evil, but they're just.... stupid. He comes off the ship and in the most evil way he can imagine, kills the person who has the information he seeks, and probably tons more, and the writers have to have Po, who has to know he can't stop the slaughter that's coming, jump up and try to kill an entire platoon of storm troopers and a Dark Jedi, to save the entire plot because Ren was evil for evils sake. Contrast that woth Dedra, who isn't just seeking to crush the galaxy, because she's eeeeeevil, but because she sees the Empire as order and peace, and anyone threatening that, is her enemy. She'd have taken the entire village and found out every secret the old man had, which was clearly more than a part of a map to find someone who is not currently, actively attacking the Empire.

[@JohnCena-fd5yw]

I think one of the most interesting evil characters in the show is Luthen. He admits that he is evil, but the best example is how he explains the heist to Mon. She's horrified that it'll bring down terrible consequences on regular people, and luthen basically says "that was the plan all along, so that enough people will hate the empire and join us. I want the empire to be cruel and evil because that's how our side wants to portray them". He's willing to sacrifice not just kreegyr, but untold masses of regular people, just to build the narrative of "empire bad"

[@saphirebandit93]

I agree that Luthen is evil, but I disagree that he is the one building the narrative of empire bad, at least not ultimately. The actions he takes are simply to put the empire in the position where they, of their own free will, will take these bad actions. They did not have to react the way they did to the robbery at the garrison. I think what Luthen is doing is speeding up the rate at which oppression happens. The empire was going to do all these things eventually and slowly so that it is harder for people to realize what is happening until it is too late. Luthen forces their hand so that they feel compelled to take more extreme measures, which causes more acute suffering, but wakes people up and inspires resistance. I find Luthen an interesting character. He does horrible things, but for good ends as opposed to the empire who does bad for bad ends. Does that make Luthen less evil, is he justified? Are you really defeating evil when you become evil yourself?

[@comrade4792]

when i think of Luthen’s actions, weighing the risks and the rewards, having to maintain the clandestine nature of the core revolutionaries, i think of mao’s quote that “revolution is not a dinner party”. Luthen takes a serious approach at toppling the Empire and it’s not an easy one. He’s forced to make extremely tough decisions in defense of the rebellion.

[@facundopollacino7956]

La verdadera definición de "el fin justifica los miedos".

[@prisma6799]

this video convinced me to continue watching the show, since the first 3 episodes didn't compel me enough

[@ChannelFredo]

the pace picks up on the 3rd episode after the other plot threads are introduced. Andor's background and current situation was more world building and didn't really move the story forward much.

[@JynxedKoma]

Syril isn't evil... He just loves cereal.

[@dancinginfernal]

bro he's a stalker, he led a swat team to break down an old lady's door, and got a ton of people roughed up and killed. He even threw his only friend to the wolves once he finally got what he wanted with Dedra.

[@cyberdan42]

I was an ICU Nurse for many years. I always stated that I had no doubt that I could commit horrible torture because much of what a nurse does is very unpleasant; it is life-preserving, often life-saving, but uncomfortable, often painful. I understood why I did the often very unpleasant things, with the compliance of the patient who needed the help, but that does not change the fact that I could and did do these things. The question becomes not WHETHER I could do painful things to another human, but WHY I would do them. So every day, I remind myself to ask why to take a breath and question why I am doing things. Because I know what I may be capable of, the issue of light and darkness depends on where you think you should be standing in relation to the sun.

[@useless_name]

This evil is within all of us. Thanks for reminder to look out for it.

[@bigfhtagn]

I strongly believe that a good story needs an interesting antagonist, and Andor knocks it out of the park. Chefs kiss

[@deepashtray5605]

Star Wars as science fiction. In the same vein as the video it should be pointed out that much like Hitler and Putin, Palpatine was legally elevated through a republican process to become a dictator following the Mussolini model. It should also be pointed out that by this time in the Star Wars chronology the galactic citizens, soldiers and bureaucrats would have been subject to 14 years of Imperial propaganda extolling the virtues of the empire under Palpatine, and how he is the only one who can save the old Republic from dissolution (this last part sound familiar?).

[@patnor7354]

Yep, it's much the same as saving the world from "climate change" or saving the US from democracy when people want to elect Trump.

[@deepashtray5605]

@@patnor7354 That makes no sense, could you clarify?

[@lloydfromfar]

I concur. Glad you make this video, this should be shared! :)

[@sparkyfromel]

the first and overwhelming commitment is to one's paycheck

[@KerbalFacile]

This video essay perfectly explains why I need to show "Andor" to my kids as soon as they are of suitable age.

[@TheStarBlack]

The flip side of this is if we all stood by our values a little more and refused to engage with companies, employers etc who are commiting or enabling harm, we would very quickly create a far nicer world to live in.

[@kodos100]

The commentary in this video is brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! Bravo to the creator of this channel.

[@holzbierproductions9153]

Boi! Is this good! Thank you very very much for making this. Especially the connections to Eichmann or the Riot Police in the beginning are so on point! My professor took 90 minutes to visualise the "Banality of Evil". You needed less than 10min. Did you study any social/psychological sciences?

[@anthonyortiz350]

Could you please tell or show us how your professor visualized the Banality of evil?

[@HistoryFromAScot]

Excellent analysis, you summarized the empire's mundane, authoritarian, mechanical process. This show did well in presenting us the innermost workings of the empire system most of us imagined in our minds.

[@MrErpic]

I loved how the show potrayed the violence of the Empire in a way that felt a lot more real than in any of the other Star Wars media as far as I can recall (like you i'm not an expert so I may forget scenes, or exemples of this). In the previous movies it feels a bit like the Empire is this big evil incarnated either by soulless and indistinct shells like clones or either super identifiable bad guys such as Vador or Sidious. Here we see the real effect of th Empire on everyday lives, on "normal" people. This stroke me the must in the Narkina 5 arc, (in my opinion one of the best arc of the serie). It felt real, credible, plausible even and this reality was what maked it so terrifying. To see the mundanity of fascism, of extreme violence, to see how easily it could be perpetrated echoes with what we encoutered in human history and what could await us. The facility of facism to become a part in the life of every citizen of the galaxy was truly chilling. stay alert, don't ever compromise with signs of fascism because we see, and we saw in the past, how easily it could happen.

[@Jowannabe]

I couldn't even finish the show about Kenobi. I think there were too many plot holes, it was predictable and boring. It felt like the creators were being lazy and just doing it for money. So, when Andor came out I didn't even care about. Two days ago I started watching because I had nothing else to do. And in two days I binge watched the whole thing. It was brilliant! I really think this is the kind of series I want to see coming from Star Wars. I think the main aspect of this show being so good is (like you are saying in your vid) the portrait of evil. It's pretty similar to real life, I mean we have all these kind of characters and situations in our world happening right now. I have lived under dictatorial regimes and I now live in USA. I have protested against a dictatorial regime on the streets and people have been shot to dead and oppressed many times. In USA I've protested against police brutality and I have seen how they also oppress people here. Also, I have read a bunch of books about the holocaust and this empire in the show feels very close to the Nazis. I feel like some sort of empathy because they are showing an evil that is real! I mean, there are neo nazis, proud boys and all sort of evil people in our world. The craziest part of all of this to me is that I consider Disney as part of the "empire" in real life. They are giving us this show, but at the same time they are one of the biggest companies in the world. One of the most capitalistic franchises that for sure has lots of power and influence. If anything Disney is closer to the evil side from my perspective.

[@Meatyowlleg]

I have to mention the great scene on the roof, which Luthen walk out of the shadow with a darth vaderish silhouette and mentions that he is condemned to use the tool of his enemy to defeat them. No pure black and white, almost every character has their nuanced grey tone, which completely contradict the simple good/evil ideology how hollywood or the media portrait the world. Andor perfectly highlight the personal believe of the characters and also the parallel to our modern society which makes the experience felt so grounded and real.

[@kagitsune]

As an engineering student, who gets really dedicated to her work and lose sight of her role in Justice and equity when she's getting paid, I think about this a lot. 😬 This plus PhilosophyTube's video on the collapsing British Healthcare system really show me how much evil is done by millions of people just by trying to make it through the day.

[@Ketraar]

I have a hard time calling it evil though if it has no intent. Maybe its a language barrier thing, but I would not equate to doing harm to being evil, always assumed evil requires intent, which is why we differentiate in sentences on killing people. Is a soldier inherently evil if they operate a machine that kills others? What if killing save other people?

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@Ketraar Evil does indeed involve intent, but *ignorance* can be evil when it's almost willful. Someone working in a shitty, corrupt healthcare system who doesn't realize it's shitty and corrupt... they're somewhat corrupt themselves, either by being blinded by the job opportunity or actively ignoring the part they play. Syril is similar. He lives in the Empire's capital, so he doesn't live *under* it, just *in* it. How hard would it be for him to know what the Empire does to people? Not very. Maybe he does. At the very least he knows how authoritarian it is. Despite that he chooses to throw all his effort into supporting it, never stopping to wonder if mayyybe he's in the wrong. Of course sometimes people have little choice. Most people conscripted in the German military in the late 30s are going to fight for their own life, regardless of however much they agree with Nazi politics. But they're one person in a whole machine. Do enough people within that machine have guilty consciences to do something about it? Then it's collectively selfish and evil. Most people are "true believers" outside of some unfortunate people stuck in the middle? Then it's collectively evil.

[@Ketraar]

@@colbyboucher6391 Hmm interesting. Not sure I completely agree though. Seems to me that Syril is just a person with a defined ideology and is willing to defend it. Sure, we, from the outside, have already defined that the Empire is evil and its easy to make quick judgement of Syril for being part of it. But does Syril think the empire is evil? Does he know? I mean we assume that some of the officials, say in North Korea, are actually aware that everything is a farce, but do the people? Would we then also all be evil as we partake in the mundane activities like consuming things made in sweatshops or using say oil oppressive regimes to drive to work? How much can we demand people to self-harm to avoid being then being "wilful evil"? I would agree for thing like the various clerics hiding abuses over the decades and now that its know anyone looking the other way could be put in that category. Or Police officials that try cover for other mates that do bad things. Both these examples have intent though, as in they had an actual choice, so they had to go AWAY from what they were supposed to do and thus allowed evil. Not sure it would be fair to apply this to people that just go on counting the days they can put food in the fridge. Doesn't mean their (in)actions don't have any impact or that it doesn't harm others, it does. But I would not say they are evil or even condone it, think its more complex then that.

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@Ketraar Evil usually doesn't see itself as sutch.

[@Ketraar]

@@colbyboucher6391 Well sure in some cases, but not sure what you are getting at. The main issue is to define what evil is, who's definition do you choose, possibly your own, so would everyone else. Anyway, I was trying to make a point about nuance and complexity, and the fact that trying to find a rather simplistic label will mostly be inaccurate, but worse it will be pointless, assuming the goal is progress, aka improvement.

[@ygorquatorze]

What a brilliant way to explain the banality of evil troughs Hanna Arendt. Thank you! This video only shows how amazing Andor is.

[@jayfolk]

“We’re under siege.” -said the siegers