Fallout Precon Upgrade Guide w/ Kyle Hill | SCIENCE! vs Mutant Menace | The Command Zone 593 | MTG

[@commandcast]

What do you think of these precons? Any cards we missed? Any cards we suggested to take out or add that you disagree with? Which do you think is more SPECIAL?

[@bryceduyvewaardt8136]

I think Brian Kib-I mean KYLE here is the most special of all things featured this episode ✨

[@MrArchivist1]

Waste Not?

[@stebes6033]

I love them but I'd love to see upgrades based around The Master, Transcendent as the commander for the Mutant Menance deck!!

[@andrewfleming1771]

Love the new pre-cons and love the episode! However I think you missed that wake the past is not a new card from the fallout set, its been around since C21

[@Gandalfderhaarige]

Kyle Hill was the most special addition, more please!

[@kylehill]

He made a couple of mistakes naming cards etc., but it was cool to see Kibler on the podcast!

[@TriuneSystem]

And Kibler managed to make it the entire time without flicking any cards! He could learn a thing or two from that Kyle Hill fella.

[@thememedungeonkeeper]

Chris-Hemsworth-we-have-at-home keeping this bit going gives me joy in life. 😊

[@pmaztah]

claiming to be a fallout fan and not mentioning fallout 1 and 2 and saying fallout 3 is more popular then NV which is considered to be the best of them all (and no we dont talk about 76) tsk tsk good episode tho =)

[@wynnefox]

I hate hate hate Farewell. Just because I'm very, "Use the graveyard as a resource." and exiling just feels so bad for me. :P That said, This is my second favorite art for it. The first being The Doctor

[@aaronreed1890]

Do you think the Kibs would be into cards like Old Rutstein in the Mothman deck? Seems like it would be a house

[@dillonow8372]

How much of the next game knights do you want to spoil? Kyle Hill:

[@pieflavor2517]

Kyle being all over the place like a golden retriever and Rachel trying to keep him in check and to not spoil game knights is a really funny dynamic

[@maxbodifee3263]

Yeah she is like the new dogsitter who can't really control his energy 😅

[@aduinoch]

You have to have Kyle Hill involved with decks based on a game about a nuclear Apocalypse

[@TheBigPenguu]

The most fun thing about playing Liberty Prime is going to be pointing at your opponents and saying "Democracy is non-negotiable!" or "Designation: Liberty Prime. Operational assessment: All systems nominal. Primary directive: War."

[@GrundysGames]

Spoilers....not spoilers since Kyle is on the episode you would expect him to play on either Game Knights or Extra Turns lol. Either way, loving all of this!!!!

[@TheDocperian]

"I don't think we have an effect like this in magic yet" he says, referring to Wake the Past, a card from 2021 lmao

[@freshrimp9013]

I came here looking for this exact comment lol

[@mawtaus]

It does kinda feel like the precons have a bunch of cards in each of them that are almost designed for you to swap out into one of the other decks.

[@bumblebflame99]

Feel like they do that to curb the power level of the decks and to promote buying the full cycle. Every UB cycle has decks that share colors with almost every other deck in the cycle.

[@rav5373]

Secretly doesn't mean you can't talk. It just means that you choose before seeing what others choose. While the card resolves, you can't say what you're choosing, however you can say anything you want before the choice actually needs to be made, you can lie or change your mind, but you can say anything.

[@MrTheophenes]

One thing worth noting when you mentioned roaming throne, is that since Master Ascendant reanimates milled stuff as mutants, you can duplicate all of those abilities as well.

[@rhysticbuddy61]

It is a tap ability to reanimate using the master which is not affected by roaming throne which only cares about triggered abilities

[@MrTheophenes]

@@rhysticbuddy61Yes, but the creatures he reanimates become 3/3 mutants, so you can get multiple triggered abilities off of whatever you reanimate, which is what I was trying to get at.

[@TheCuteGamerVT]

lily actually gets up to being a 32/32 before it drops down.

[@skyhorizon6860]

And if we got counter doublers 😈 we start having fun

[@09419]

I totally missed it was 16 or less. I figured you could finagle to 30 by getting her power to 15 at least.

[@Xalyn937]

Rachel looked so haunted when she mentioned cutting cards for the science deck. Great video, and excited to see Kyle on Game Knights!

[@Onirikas]

Osgir, the Reconstructor seems like a great addition to the energy deck since you are playing graveyard sinergies. Also cursed mirror.

[@beanieman8570]

Idk if someone has mentioned this, but Wake the Past has been a MTG card since strixhaven. I forget whether it was main set or C21, but it's definitely a lorehold card.

[@ColdCryomancer]

It was in the Osgir precon if i remember correctly, or it was in the set. nobody talked about it for years and now suddenly its amazing. crazy right.

[@davidharper142]

Just to comment Lily Bowen says 16 or less so it will actually get up to a 32/32 before losing her counters and gaining you 31 life.

[@superkeaton9912]

Yeah everyone really misses that bit. They see the sixteen and just stop thinking lol.

[@Mithrandork]

1:47:49 Fun thing to point out is that Lily doesn't cap at 16, she caps at 32. At start of turn if she's 16 or less double her power so for one turn cycle you'll get a 32 power creature.

[@AndyBravoAndrewJCC]

Wake the past is a card from commander 2021, is not new from fallout right? ❤😅

[@ColdCryomancer]

Yes, Sometimes they dont check stuff.

[@scharazz]

For the Mothman( which i really love) my upgrades are: "Peregrin Took" + "Nuka Cola Vending Machine"( thx Science-Deck) + "Grinding Station" = Endless Mill. Second Combo is, after playing something like Nuclear Fallout, or just after a boardwhipe: "The Master" + "Intruder Alert" and something that gives haste. Tap him, get a creature, untap to do "intruder alert", repeat until you have all the sweet stuff from the graveyards. Last I am thinking about, which is a bit harder to pull of is "Volo, Guide to Monsters" + "Food Chain" + "Shrieking Drake": Cast the Shrieking Drake, copy with volo, bounce the original with its own ability, sac the copy to foodchain, do a lot of times and then end the Game by playing Radstorm and proliferate all the Rad-Counters. Or instead of "Volo" + "Food Chain"+"Drake" i take the Zombie-Route. Play the Rad Zombie(+1/+1 Counter for every creature that died this tourn) + "Grave Crawler" + "Phyrexian Alter". Sac the Grave Crawler in the Alter and play him from graveyard and do until your zombie is stupidly strong and then sac him to give every opponent a massive tones of Rad-Counters. End Yes, I´ll play him for the Rad-Counters, so the Peregrin Took combo is just a game closer.

[@JustforKikX]

It's interesting that Kyle says SCIENCE! is stronger; everything I've heard online says that mutant menace is the better precon.

[@BlindEyeGuy90]

@kylehill did a great job with these upgrades! Love how he did the upgrades with a plan to win in mind and did a great job explaining his process for the upgrades and cuts! Command Zone should bring him back more often to do more decks!!

[@pagansandroids4935]

interesting to watch Kyle in the CZ podcast format, as his brain works so fast it seemed tricky at times to find a rhythm & not step on Rachel's insights (who is also a rather quick witted individual). i am impressed with how the CZ podcasters share their ideas but also let the other podcaster speak in a natural rhythm. (that said, the episode was great & Kyle's rad, of course... [pun intended]. i look forward to his Game Knight's antics.)

[@lugh.i]

Having Brian Kibler here felt refreshing. Not only he knows his Fallout and science stuff, but the fact he's not as perfectly in sync with Rachel (as the rest of the Command Zone cast would be) adds a lot of fun moments to the podcast. The 1:16:22 to 1:17:06 bit has to be one of the best this podcast has to offer. I just wonder why you didn't get Kyle Hill for this one.

[@sandydelrosario6748]

Gotta give Respect to the legend Kyle. An all around stand up guy and wonderful Sci Guy.

[@nickatwork]

Kyle is really underestimating how popular Mothman as a figure in general is

[@HEYabbot]

It is also one of the positive things about Fallout 76 that storyline was fun.

[@angelocarrieri7165]

This is awesome. So great to see Kyle doing a video like this. We❤you Kyle.

[@Sparl486]

Rise of the Dark Realms secret lair printing is $30 but God I love the way it looks like one of the fallout comic books, I'm putting it in the Mothman deck

[@registereduser]

I had to look it up, but yep it really does.

[@aquax7325]

Seeing kyle struggle to talk about gameknights and not spoile anything is so funny and just like him😂 Keep it up my guy, you got this

[@chrism4919]

My upgrade list for the mutant deck. [CREATURES] 1 Thrummingbird 1 The Mycotyrant 1 Tekuthal, Inquiry Dominus 1 Mycoloth 1 Syr Konrad, the Grim 1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide [ARTIFACTS] 1 Mindcrank [SORCERIES] 1 Breach the Multiverse [ENCHANTMENTS] 1 Bloodchief Ascension 1 Doubling Season

[@tomharris5649]

It's amazing how elated one can be at hearing "STATS!" Great job, TCZ. Much love.

[@SirChrito]

I feel like there are three more cards that are also autoincludes in mothman: -undead alchemist: mills and is a mill payoff -memory erosion: repeatable mill for only 3 mana -breach the multiverse... Like the primordeal, but also mills 10

[@alexbiersner3350]

After watching Kyle take control in the Fallout episode, I knew I wanted to get this deck. Looks like I'll be dusting off my old commander decks to deck test with the precon. And maybe I'll order the upgrade cards as well. On the flipside, the mutant deck looks really good as well. Might even pick that one up as well in the future

[@Gardureth]

Next up: Star Wars Mtg, with Palpetine as your Commander, with the text: Order 56, all permanents not under your control change their alliance, untap and have haste until end of your turn.

[@RagdorUltron]

This was an awesome upgrade guide! Kyle Hill is such as awesome guest to have on the show!! Bring him on more.

[@lewisrainwater9527]

Vault 13: looks intended for ETB effects. Can do it for creatures to liberty prime combo with Austere Command. Negotiate with one person for whom you will return to the battle field. 3+ person game results in 1+ cards at bottom of library.

[@lewisrainwater9527]

For Expert Level Safe. You can do the same number every time if you want someone to know. I just played rock paper scissors, even referenced the funny cards "scissor lizard" and such. If it was a tie, then the safe was unlocked. I used it as a form of card draw. I put what I didn't like in the safe in combination to work station card .

[@Ginkrepeerc_]

I pulled 2 roaming thrones. I am so lucky, didn’t realize how much it was worth until now. It was hanging around 15.. but now like 30?

[@michelefumagalli81]

Cephalid illusionist for mothman is almost a full deck milled. Also did you know that mothman can target also your opponents stuff? So you can use him as a political pawn or you could add cowardice to transform him into a removal engine

[@lewisrainwater9527]

I think austere command was chosen specifically as a combo. It kills a bunch. You can keep liberty prime on the board. You can loose him and or knock out other big stompies. You can blow up all artifacts and the bring them back with one of the two artifact ress cards. If you res artifacts with the symmetric card, you have equip advantage since you have the mana available to spend and re-equip things while others don't, also a lot of your artifacts are creatures, also it's a way to bounce for energy using the face commander.

[@Blargonia]

My first commamder deck was also a Sharuum the Hegemon artifact deck. Master Transumuter was my favorite card in that deck

[@KungfufightU]

I picked up all the upgrades suggested and a few more besides. Thanks Brian Kibbler!

[@stormcountmtg4183]

Everyone is building mothman differently. You guys are going for the mill wincon, I saw a guy make copy tribal, some people are going for counter synergies. But me, I’m trying to assemble psychic corrosion/sphinx’s tutelage and fathom sage/generous patron combo.

[@thatguycam1989]

I'm going wide with infect

[@jamesweber8509]

This was worth it just for the Kirby with human feet reference!

[@nameless695]

I played Mothman in a 2HG event at my lgs last night. My partner played a slightly nodded Caesar deck and we may not have synergized very well, but we still ran the table. Rad counters saved us in the last game where it was another Mothman paired with Dogmeat and that synergy scared us

[@Karste1n]

What an amazing duo, I love Brian Kibler

[@thejesteramongfools]

IF I do some upgrading I will probably proxy some of the cards to in universe flavor them of course I would own the real card if people want me to use it but examples: Using Mole Miners for goblins Gonti's Aether Heart would be the Beryllium Agitator I will have to think of a few more for them but I like to keep the flavor but I also like to make the deck competitive enough to see play

[@DAsrada]

The Master Transcendent goes completely nutty with Altar of the Brood and Intruder Alarm. If you get some good mills on a person (via Rad Counters or other means) with a lot of creatures, you could very well see half their deck suddenly on your side of the board.

[@trizkit995]

I'll watch just cuz discount Thor/Brian

[@thumbwrestler12]

This was a great video tho to mention clues draw you cards so it does help in self mill strategies not just the plus one counters. The upgrade were great for both decks. It’s tough to choose between the fallout deck this video definitely helps.

[@Spiran_SphereHunter]

You ever do an update to this, There is a super cheap card called Whirler virtuoso -1/I/M 2/3 veldalken artificier creature, When it enters the battlefield you get 3 energy counters, Pay 3 energy counters : create a 1/1 colorless thopter artifact creature token with flying. Combine it with another super cheap card, Decoction module a 2 artifact whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, You get 1 energy counter, 4tap - return target creature you control to owners hand., its the first part you want, Because gonti's gives you 2 energy counters for the same, Now you have infinite Thopters, With Li or Panhan you have Infinite energy as well and can then sac gontis to take the extra turn and overrun people with an army of thopters, All under 5 bucks to do Edit; Gonti's has gone way up to 19 bucks and panharm is 3 but li is only 1, virtuoso is .40 and decoction is .50 so still a super cheap combo to end out the game if you can't tron up Liberty

[@TheImmortalSoul]

about altar of the brood: let's say in a game with 4 players, each opponent putting the top card into his graveyard means wisemoth have potentially(considering they mill nonland) 3 triggers to add +1/+1 or only one +1/+1?

[@DraygaFlight]

Mothman deck... Breach the multiverse Virtue of persistence Tanazir quandrix Guiltfeeder Ringsight From the catacombs Genesis Grimoire of the dead

[@stephenstrange5663]

Yeeee I already have all 4 decks pre-ordered and have been planning on making a liberty prime deck. Huge fan of fallout & already ordered a bunch of energy synergy cards from card kingdom. This video was made for me lol.

[@MirrorAshes]

lol me too first time I’ve ever preordered all 4. Wish there were a few more reprints but the more I look at the new cards the more excited I get

[@stephenstrange5663]

Crossing my fingers for an Esper Sentinel skin for Sarah Lyons in the Secret lair. How flavorful would that be with her rank being Sentinel. Then can throw that in liberty prime.

[@cmattss4]

Oh i been waitin for this. Let's see the Mothman!

[@jeffcallahan5467]

It's awesome watching some one revel in the flavor, theme, and art of the game.

[@HauntedOne1]

Awesome video on these two precons guys! I wanted to point out that while Great Value Thor was talking about The Wise Mothman 1:09:05 it sounds like someone is making an animal balloon in the background...or is it.. The Wise Mothman himself 🤔😅

[@LegendaryMaeve]

I think whats fun with adding all those goblins to the science deck is you can think of them as mini mutants!

[@mikaelgillioz]

Thanks you it was awesone to hear it about the Fallout from science Kyle keep it UP commande zone peace front Switzerland 🇨🇭

[@emilysmith2965]

1:08:50 argument to be made here for Simic Manipulator and Cytoplast Manipulator - give opposing creatures counters so you can steal ‘em.

[@seantheelite]

Kyle spoiling parts of the Game Knights episode😂

[@isaiahwelch8066]

My all-time favorite play with Master Transmuter? Bounce Ornithopter for Darksteel Forge. Nowadays, I'd bounce Ornithopter for Portal to Phyrexia, given how strong that ETB is. Edit: One of the easiest upgrades to Liberty Prime is Tameshi, Reality Architect. The card is at $6.99 on TCGPlayer at the high end. And for 2/U, you get a card draw and reanimator engine that is self-contained, plus you get synergy with Master Transmuter. All in all, a pretty good synergy card which already does what the deck wants to do. Edit 2: For the Mothman deck, if you are trying to mill players out, I have 4 cards to add to the deck: First: Alter of Dementia. This card, being an artifact, is so strong with Mothman's milling/Rad counter strategy. Second: Primal Vigor/Doubling Season. The ability to double Rad counters is ridiculous! Third: Szadek, Lord of Secrets. If you lean into the reanimator aspect of Mothman, you're not paying 7 mana for a Legendary Vampire that, instead of dealing combat damage, mills X cards, where X is equal to his power, and then put X +1/+1 counters on Szadek that is equal to the number of cards milled. And, he is a 5/5 flier starting out. Four: Two-card combo: Reito's Lantern and Tunnel Vision. Reito's Lantern is a 3-generic artifact where you can put any card from a graveyard at the bottom of the library. Now, why would you do that? Tunnel Vision. 5/U sorcery. Name a card in target player's library. That player mills until they reveal the named card. Otherwise, shuffle the library. Pair these two cards with copy effects, or perhaps creature-based spell recursion in Blue, these two cards can easily mill players out in a Sultai milling deck.

[@taylorjohnson5148]

Sting, the glinting dagger can untap the master at the beginning of every combat. Pretty neat synergy for anyone wanting to run him

[@stratavosstuff7575]

I like the Mothman precon more, though it's more that I've had a Sultai deck that always is kinda underpreforming for a longer while, so it's more likely to do better with moving cards around into it, and I love proliferate as a theme so there may be changes going on that way too. The amount of WUR decks we've been being fed over the last year is... quite high.

[@matthewjecelin8358]

Im so excited for the science precon. I played fallout 3 & 4 alot like over 700+ hours on each game plus i have a T-45 power suit tatted on me. Im so happy that libert prime is a commander my favorite part of the game by far

[@Boatanga]

I really like the Harold and Bob card. Interesting good but not amazing with a weird design that’s one of those cards like scourge of the sky waves that you just look at and think “ at some point I’m gonna break this”

[@DFrost-qw5qd]

49:47 Secretly voting is awesome. It can add buffing, and or trickier in the discussion as the effect is resolving. Are you truthful about what you said you would do? Or will you be greedy and try and trick them so you get more of a benefit? The pre vote dicussion is super fun, imo.

[@earbitter]

Ya’ll really just tried to tell me that I wouldn’t spend any extra by shopping via card kingdom. Come on now.

[@JustinVanTrump]

I got rid of C.A.M.P. and Red Death for a Counterspell and Ice Out that way I have more than just one counter in the deck since I have friends who love to play Eldrazi, Hydras, and Slivers; I will be making some of these upgrades as well though

[@aang6631]

The flavor reason for the plasma caster ability: The plasma casters would either hit for shit damage or melt the target into a puddle of green goo. It was like all or nothing and the ammo was expensive.

[@RazgrizAce67]

I've only been lukewarm about this set but I will watch Kyle Hill talk about anything so I'm here for it.

[@edwardseiffer5966]

Why would you get rid of proliferation in a deck that you’re humming and hawing about not getting enough rad counters out when comparing the two at the end? 2:00:12

[@taylorjohnson5148]

All these cards I bought for the osgir precon finally get to see some use again!

[@DuskyPredator]

Probably not budget, but I plan to move some of my non-legandery cloning cards into the Mothman deck. I think Helm of the Host on Mothman will mean reliably more rads, ramp on any of the +1 counters and an extra flyer. Auton Soldier should myriad Mothman clones attacking, which should do 2 rads for extra myriad clone. And I am thinking of moving my primal vigor, which will double all counters, and maybe the above clone ideas.

[@Irelia_Chibi_Justice]

What's Brian kibler doing here? Lol lol

[@earthling19]

Oh sweet, the same two I picked up! This is exactly the video I've been waiting for

[@samkoch1038]

I’ve very recently been reintroduced to MTG (bc of the Fallout set) and I just now learned about the One Ring through this video. God help us.

[@Vedeksloan]

I love this deck design. It is fun playing a deck that has a different way to mill.

[@KountKristyl]

I'm pretty sure Goblin Welder was in the Derreti Commander deck. So if you can get that or were lucky enough to pick it up when it first came out (like me) you just saved yourself $18

[@KingRhogin]

So I guess if you wanted more energy counters, you could add Decoction Module and enchantments like Mirroden Besieged, Thopter Spy Network, and Efficient Construction.

[@gnoll1812]

I built a Phenax mill deck. While Phenax himself doesn't give value for milling, most of my creatures benefit from milling, either by growing in power or buy drawing me cards. It's pretty strong. Tree of perdition + some untap effect like Intruder Alarm is gane ending.

[@jackwright7879]

During the whole Overencumbered discussion I’m just side eyeing the EDSC game on LRRMTG and giggling.

[@ryker3696]

My play group ran the four and at the end it came down to rad counters. Last player had 5 life and 7 rad and hit in order land, land then 5 non land to lose the game. It was nuts. We loved it

[@matthewwinnie7944]

Hot take, but a Sultai zombie mill deck built from Mutant Menace could actually be… good? Geralf’s Mindcrusher, Lich Lord of Unx, Skullbriar, Undead Alchemist, Vulturous Zombie🤔

[@JonReid01]

The new BG Titian from the clue set

[@twizz_bee]

Yeah the upgrades all make sense. All in all the deck seems a bit more focussed on its artifacts. The problem is just that the power level is still way off of what most people build. Am still gonna try this one out

[@kgoodfarms]

Ok, now that I hear KH's sciencing, I like the Science! deck even more. Thanks!

[@dafickler]

Aetherworks Marvel only 2.75? I'm assuming that these decks were spoiled before Feb 12th? Either that or people in the loop bought it out because the price shot up over 2 weeks ago.

[@dafickler]

Exactly the same with Gonti's as well.

[@themagicofmtg]

The upgrade pricing is always amusing, because they never stay that price when this video comes out. Once the deck is fully leaked, not to mention these videos released, those cards shoot up in price. For instance, the Aetherworks Marvel is priced at $2.50, whereas current pricing has it over $8. Still a great video with a lot of good information about the deck design and philosophy behind the upgrades.

[@johnlundblad2840]

Kyle: You are the bomb. I wish you were on command zone/game knights/extra turns more often.

[@murlocmasher3368]

Kyle hill: I don’t want to give away any spoilers Also kyle hill: which is also relevant on game knights (for the fourth time)

[@Coxsterify]

I actually like that the reprints might be low. If they can print new cards that do similar things to cards you wish were in the deck, you can just slot those in to "double up" in a singleton format or really ride or die on a certain strategy. Like why have Teferi's Protection in the deck if you give me the same thing, but in a different name, then I can do that twice!

[@MiniMotys]

SCIENCE is energy themed, just slide in Decotion Module and Whirler Virtuoso since we are adding Gonti Aether Heart

[@CeltiesSin]

I didn’t give a single dang about the science! deck until y’all started talking about it, and now I must play it 👀 lmao I had the same thought y’all had about Dr Li being durdley and boring, but y’all’s list looks fun! (I already planned on playing mutants so that’s not news for me 😅)

[@ulmostinsane]

Having Kyle Hill on this episode is an extremely welcome surprise. The more magic content from Kyle the better.

[@chrisgallo2236]

Imperious Mindbreaker could be great in the Mutant deck because your creatures are getting bigger with the counters and you’ll be killing a lot of cards. Also of course Court Of Cunning.

[@VincentWolfeye]

I love to see Kyle getting some love on Game Knights again ❤. First Eldraine and now Fallout ☢️

[@xr9790]

Phyrexians pulling up to Fallout: “Was your planet always this… broken?”

[@tapoutologist]

“It’s what I recommend because I’m correct” -Kyle Hill This guys my hero

[@thedarkneess1]

Vault 13 is actually good, for 4 mana u actually get rid of two creatures or enchantments (bottom of library). You chose to return ur card and someone elses, then get rid of the most powerful ones. Also could be 3 things if one of ur targets is a token.

[@chips8623]

My first favorite kitchen table 60 card deck included a playset of Avatar of Might and Thorn Elemental

[@TooSplicedUp13]

Very flavorful that Brotherhood Vertibird art is of one crashing. Without mods, vertibirds are hilariously easy