An EVANGELICAL PASTOR Discovers Purgatory in the BIBLE! (w/ Kenny Burchard)

[@locksmith9498]

You know guys, it feels wonderful and comforting to now be a catholic. I have to pinch my arm....I AM A CATHOLIC NOW! I am home. Was received three days ago. The amazement is still there. Almost 25 years in and out of different groups and seven last years spent in Eastern Orthodoxy. Wow! I AM CATHOLIC! Thanks guys for all of you who have led us home! Greetings from ultra-secular Sweden. God held my hand and never let me go, gently nudging me in the right direction all these years. So many lies out there, so many opinions, so much falsehood and slander. I am home ! Love for you guys

[@BensWorkshop]

Welcome home!

[@susand3668]

That is wonderful news!!

[@ginkeng2940]

Truly, God find ways to bring you to His Church. Welcome home!

[@alissarehmert2502]

Welcome home! We saved you a seat! 🙌

[@Georgina50]

I love Kenny Burchard great stream God bless

[@pattysayssew3609]

I so appreciate Kenny's purgatory talks. I have a cousin who said one day purgatory was the stupidest thing the "dumb cathlics" ever created. This was the day after my nephew's funeral when he was planning to tell my brother why he needed to leave the Church. So, he said this at breakfast with a number of us at his table (my brother was at a different table). He asked what the rest of us thought. I told him I thought it was one of the most beautiful and loving gifts God could have given us, going to St. Paul, naturally, for the discussion. Biblical, you know. When I finished, he asked the others at the table what they thought. Most were Catholic. My brother-in-law sort of surprised me when he said "I believe what she said." And one by one, all agreed except for the one other who had left the Church. My cousin looked around and said, "so what's next on the calendar today." 12 years later he no longer brings up purgatory. We've added Mary to the "it's Biblical" list now, too. If you complete this book, Kenny, I am snapping it up!!!

[@anapaulaamaral1514]

The beauty of being Catholic is to understand the authority of the Church, where it comes from and than you don't need to wrestle with every aspect. You spend your energy in the beauty of this understanding, you trust with faith and you feel wonderful.

[@susand3668]

Thank you both, so much, for your enthusiasm and for your faith! I do appreciate this recollection that I am being cleansed at the foot of the Cross, that I may behold His Face with clear eyes, undimmed (but washed) by tears. Words cannot express His Mercy! In the end, we are children, trusting God our Father.

[@mmllafleur4004]

Purgatory is where your soul takes a bath that cleanses out of it all the impurities and stains that were left there at the end of your life. It is like taking a shower and putting on your best garment before going to a wedding! In other words your work clothes won’t do, and neither will your cooking apron, or your gardening smock, or your auto mechanic grubs, or etc. At the wedding feast of the Lamb, you want your soul to be absolutely pure! Alleluia, hosannah and amen!

[@ginkeng2940]

Well said !!!

[@TriciaPerry-mz7tc]

@@ginkeng2940it doesn’t exist.

[@pianoatthirty]

I hope Kenny writes a book one day incorporating all of his Catholic Bible Highlights. A sort of manual for refuting all the usual Protestant claims against the Catholic faith. It's amazing how God is using him to bring people out of the confusion and emptiness of Protestantism and back to Christ's Church.

[@Sojourner-ambulareinspiritu]

Two of my favourite Catholic KZbinrs in one place! Love it👍

[@KennyBurchard]

Thanks!

[@maryisaac7013]

Purgatory flames will be determined on your state of life lived, the one thing for sure is the frames are not eternal, but temporary for the length of purification needed for the soul. If your depths of unrepentant is deep, your flames of purifications are more serve. Repentance is needed now, while we are still in the flesh, don't aim for purgatory because one could miss purgatory and condam oneself into the abyss 🙏🕊

[@RedRiverMan]

i thought we dont know what it will be like?

[@NicklausPapson]

Kenny Burchard is amazing! His channel on KZbin changed my life.

[@TriciaPerry-mz7tc]

He’s deceived and misleading others there is no purgatory

[@virgil015]

That was great! I know my purgatory but I'm going to get the book anyway. Kenny brought up some different angles. Plus I have always loved Kenny and Dave. I didn't realize they collaborated together.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Glad to hear! It’s an awesome collaboration.

[@cynthiahall9297]

Thank you for writing the book. I got my copy on the way😊

[@TheCordialCatholic]

So glad to hear this!

[@margaretstewart5538]

It always brings to mind all those times as a Protestant we belted out 'Refiner's Fire'

[@KennyBurchard]

Yep, there's a chapter in the book where the speaker presents the doctrine of purgatory, then asks the group to sing "refiner's fire."

[@atmalewis1768]

Boy, what a treat. Catholic Bros with Cordial Christian ! Purgatory, great topic. I'm Anglo-Catholic (and very fulfilled in my church, with our excellent Bishop Chad Jones) , learning about Purgatory from my priest. The Great Divorce is one of my favorites. One huge piece you guys gave me was the correlation between OT need to cleanse oneself before entering God's presence. That was key to better my understanding! Thanks to all of you.

[@tangomike777]

Cradle Catholic here, and I am learning a lot from you . Thank you for your works. May God bless both you and your families. Merry Christmas.

[@DoingItTheHardWayAgain]

The same people who don't "like" the word purgatory, like the word trinity and rapture as two common examples. The sure seem to like non Biblical doctrines such as penal substitution or sola fide or sola scriptura. So much for their feelings! As for the the interview, one of the moments that will stick for all the wrong reasons, "not the gummy bears, please not the gummy bears" is what I said when you mentioned the fact about detachment from the bodily (3D) desires, addictions etc. Larrikin Aussie nature, can't fix me, God can, but until He does this is one thing that is on the encyclopaedia length list of my faults that need to be removed on Judgement Day. TY for this video, have shared it to a lovely couple who have been lead down the path of heresies (modernisms/protestant lies) during their journey, hopefully this experience shared here helps them open their hearts to God and His absolute Truth. Tenete Traditiones God bless

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@DoingItTheHardWayAgain Jesus is our purgatory according to Scriptures.

[@DoingItTheHardWayAgain]

@Nolongeraslave What came first, The Church or Scripture? NOTE: Precedent is a Biblically based legal doctrine. "in the beginning" Not to undermine anyones journey to Christ, but I'll stick with Scripture and the Apostolic teachings, for it was founded by Christ Himself when He clearly without any room for man's interpretation said "what you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven'. Hence the order "Tenete Traditiones' (also 100% BIBLICAL). I may have misunderstood your comment, in which case "my bad",.but the impression I got is that you question Apostolic teachings aka "early Church teachings". Which in itself is not Biblical, for we are to turn to The Church when in doubt or as often said/quoted from various Bishops and attributed to Paul "when in doubt turn to tradition". Again applying the meanings of those words as understood (used) when they were said and not as per modern linguistically flexible (woke) confusing definitions. Either way, Tenete Traditiones God bless

[@kwing6017]

@@Nolongeraslave we would agree with that.

[@susand3668]

@@Nolongeraslave , yes, in a very real way, He is the fire that burns up our faults so that "nothing unclean" can enter the presence of God (Revelation 21:27)

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@susand3668 No, not that way. He is our purgatory because of the Cross. Hebrews 1:3 "...When He had Himself purged our sins, sat at the right hand of His majesty...." past tense.

[@Musicislife-ht7fz]

Loved listening to both of you discussing your experiences prior to coming home❤

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thank you!

[@SergioGonzalez-qu3vv]

At the end of our life we carry stains in our souls of sins and behaviors that still linger in ourselves,and God is a pure spirit,and as we know nothing evil shall enter heaven.

[@PaulaAlinsangan]

Thanks to the both of you, for what you share, and for your contagious laughter and joy. I saw Kenny's video on purgatory in August but made no comment. Now that its discussed here by two people I love and admire, I'd like to share a few thoughts. Now, just a little bit of history. I come from one of the tribes that inhabit the mountains in Northern Philippines. While the Saniards christianized most parts of the country since the 16th century, they never reached us. In 1898, the USA took over the country, carved out trails on our mountains, and facilitated the arrival of new missionaries. Most were Belgians who eventually built schools, the most famous being the St. Louis University in Baguio City. I went thru high school and college in these schools and received religious instruction from this group of missionaries. So, what were we taught about purgatory in high school? I remember clearly the two Bible sources cited - one from Macabees and the other from Corinthians. My Belgian teachers repeatedly said that purgatory, while it involves purgation/ cleansing, is not a place but is a state, just like heaven, and might even be starting during our earthly life. Never heard that purgatory involves a second chance. One's being in purgatory is the result of ones being imperfect - of being stained because of venial sins. But when one dies in a state of mortal sin, one goes straight into hell. Thats final. (Mortal sin is complete rejection of God, a comlete loss of hope.) I also learned that we can help souls in purgatory through our prayers. We do this anytime, but esp during the Mass, and esp in early November. Finally, whatever the explanation, I always had the impression that it is difficult to explain purgatory, which explains why we resort to using metaphors.

[@kevinnickel7529]

The Biblical Basis for Purgatory by John Salza is an invaluable source for those seeking to understand what scripture reveals about purgatory.

[@bethanyrose2023]

Thank you. I need to make my Reading List. I am a cradle Catholic and I want to learn about my faith so I can defend it.

[@LibraryDarkArts]

Hi, my favorite verse on this topic is Rev 7:14 "... They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Presenting the Blood of Jesus as a kind of detergent for the soul. This is also erodes the idea of penal substitution without personal transformation. Their robes must be washed. Also supporting the idea of washing as a process. I've also kinda liked the metaphor of imagining Purgatory as the Car Wash on the way to heaven. It will hurt to get hit and scrubbed by all that hot water and brushing, using the blood of Jesus as the soap. But, you are moving in the direction of Heaven and you will get there, nice and clean.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@LibraryDarkArts You contradicted Rev. 7:14 perfectly.

[@kwing6017]

@@Nolongeraslave going to offer an actual defense for why he interpreted it wrong and why you are right? i have an objection to it too because i read it as something else but i still believe what he said aside from that.

[@TheZebbedee12]

Kenny's channel is awesome! Glad to see you two get together!

[@oversight9406]

Refreshing … Merci!

[@thankfullyforgiven9611]

Great discussion gentlemen. I always enjoy listening to both of you. To me the concept of purgatory makes sense. I get it completely. The pill that’s a little hard for me to swallow is that I don’t understand how if you do x,y, or z then you will get out of purgatory this many days. I don’t quite understand how priests could come up with those concepts. Did God give them wisdom in it, probably, but it’s just a little hard for me to wrap my mind around. If they would have said if you do these things then this will assist you upon your judgement and possibly shorten your time in purgatory, I would completely understand that. The indulgence doctrine is the one thing with Catholicism that I struggle with. Especially the thoughts of explaining that to my family who’s not Catholic, and they can’t see the indulgences in scripture. It’s a little tricky. Hopefully the Lord will work everything out and my family will be able to become Catholic, til then, please say a prayer for us.

[@marknovetske4738]

Keep up the good work!😁🙏

[@BensWorkshop]

Many thanks Kenny! Ans thank you for having him on Keith!

[@KennyBurchard]

Ben!!

[@lmr-xt7hw]

Thank you so much. It was interesting for me as a catholic and I learned something. I pray for the souls in purgatory. It would have been nice you could have touched upon this as the souls in purgatory cannot do anything for themselves but we can. Also I like the fact that the souls in purgatory can intercede for us. In English they are called the Holy Souls and in German they are called the poor souls. Very interesting. Holy because they ate with God and poor because they can’t do anything for themselves. Their work is done but we can offer works of charity on their behalf.

[@teresabryson9657]

Tks for explanation.

[@jmr10276]

As a worship leader in the 1990s, I remember doing that song. I once sang “I see the Lord and his train fills the station.”

[@alistairj4382]

Shalom from Malaysia. Same day this topic of afterlife/death, my protestant wife side uncle passed away due to alcoholism. The question lingers in thoughts, what do they pray/worship/service for the deceased for if they don't believe in purgatory or straight to heaven..

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@alistairj4382 The services or prayers are for the benefit of those alive. The dead is well, dead!

[@kwing6017]

that is interesting.

[@andrewpatton5114]

I've only been to one Protestant funeral, but at that funeral, it was eulogy after eulogy for the deceased, with a much smaller reference to Jesus. In contrast, I've met Protestants who went to a Catholic funeral and were surprised it was a Mass.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@andrewpatton5114 The Mass they are praying for the dead, who should have reached their destination the moment one dies. Heaven or hell. So you may pray Mass all you want, does not change anything!.

[@guyfaux3978]

My sister once said that her idea of Purgatory was that it was a stuffy hot windowless waiting room for Heaven. If you complained, you stayed longer... ;-)

[@pattysayssew3609]

LOL! I think I will have a loooooooooooong stay there, yikes!

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@guyfaux3978 False beliefs are never sort of imaginations.

[@TriciaPerry-mz7tc]

It doesn’t exist. It’s a lie and many are ADDING to the word to explain something God nor the aholy ghost spoke on. I am praying and asking God for help.

[@pattysayssew3609]

@@TriciaPerry-mz7tc it dies exist. As for adding wirds...Martin Luther.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@pattysayssew3609 I can see you misspelled "does" which makes it hilarious. The Church will go down into eternity defending a place she formed for her followers. Bible readers just can't buy this stuff.

[@caraocruz99]

What do you think of the description of Purgatory from Saints and visionaries that had an encounter with Our Lord Jesus Christ and or the Virgin Mary who showed them the Purgatory?? Among those saints and visionaries; st. Bernadette, Conchita from Garabandal apparitions, St. Sor Faustina, st. Catherine Labourie ( I think)

[@Jaseph2]

My question is that I’ve always heard that the souls in Purgatory are longing for the Beatific Vision. How does that fit with this discussion.

[@kwing6017]

the beatific vision is their future that is immanent and the longer they are there the closer they get and the more yearning they feel for it.

[@Jaseph2]

@ I realize that but it doesn’t fit what was said in the video.

[@tim_w]

KAL & KB 💣💥

[@BrandonG667]

LOL I just found out about Kenny and now I see him everywhere. He’s got a great podcast, Catholic Bible Highlights, check it out.

[@KennyBurchard]

I’m not even omnipresent 😂🎉😊

[@sunnyjohnson992]

The Teaching of Christ-A Catholic Catechism for Adults states: “The word ‘purgatory’ is not in the Bible, nor is the doctrine explicitly taught there.” After reviewing what Catholic writers have said regarding such texts as 2 Maccabees 12:39-45, Matthew 12:32, and 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, NOT SACRED SCRIPTURE.” “The church has relied on tradition to support a middle ground between heaven and hell.” “What goes on in purgatory is anyone’s guess.” (U.S. Catholic Magazine) From 590 to 604 Gregory the Great was pope of the Roman Catholic Church. He was the first man to establish the doctrine of purgatory and to advance it as a place of fiery elements to torment souls. Under the title Purgatory, McClintock & Strong’s Cyclopedia says: “But whatever the views of some Church Fathers on the subject, as a doctrine it was UNKNOWN in the Christian Church for the first 600 years, and it does not appear to have been made an article of faith until the 10th century.”

[@Wgaither1]

Do you still sin in purgatory?

[@benoitmeyrieux2446]

No. Anyone in purgatory has died and cannot sin anymore (nor can acquire merits).

[@Wgaither1]

@ So if you don't sin anymore, that must mean you keep the greatest commandment. So why the need for purgatory? Your already purified

[@alwaysathome]

​@@Wgaither1 if you watch the video, your question will be answered. It's beautiful actually.

[@Wgaither1]

@@alwaysathomewhy do you need a bit more sanctification in purgatory when you don’t sin anymore?

[@kwing6017]

@@Wgaither1 you don't sin anymore but you are being cleansed of the sins not leading to death that you died with.

[@pauljones33]

Purgatory is the purification of soul before we enter Heaven and face the Almighty God. If you believe in purgatory then it’s also great to pray for the Holy Souls in purgatory by st. Gertrude the great. Christ promised st. Gertrude that 1000 souls will be released from purgatory every time the prayer is said. So if you use the rosary then we can help 50k souls be purified.

[@alwaysathome]

56:29 is yhe word "Bible" even in the bible?

[@KennyBurchard]

The word "bible" is in the Bible a few times. It's the first word (in Greek) in the book of Matthew. BIBLOS in Greek. It means "book" and it's in there a bunch of times.

[@clivejames5058]

@@KennyBurchard But 'Bible alone' is not mentioned!

[@KennyBurchard]

@@clivejames5058 True!

[@hoder6654]

Any way that I try to google it. The “Turn your eyes upon Jesus” song aka the “Heavenly Vision” song was not written by a Catholic, nor was it about purgatory….

[@KennyBurchard]

Don't misunderstand. The song captures what we are saying about purgatory -- not that the author of the song thought it was about purgatory. Purgatory is a gaze into the face of Jesus!

[@BensWorkshop]

Correct. Though by accident, it was about purgatory.

[@clivejames5058]

Can this Pastor explain how he got around the following - with regards 1 Cor 3: 10-15 please? a) This is a 'proving' fire, one that tests and reveals our works. It is not a 'purging' fire (as in the concept of purgatory) b) Not just sins go through this fire, but our good works also. Is purgatory for our good works too?(I've never heard that) c) The text states that those who have bad works will 'suffer loss', it does not say they will obtain gain as a result of this fire. (ie: eventual entrance into heaven). d) The text refers to 'the Day' (v.13) in other words, this will happen to us, on the Day of Judgement and not at our individual particular judgement. Genuinely interested as to how he got around this - thank you.

[@paulmualdeave5063]

D: the meaning can be two things at the same time. Two things can be true at the same time is the concept. Revelation for example is both Nero (666) and the future end times. It has happened and is also something yet to happen. Luke 12:42-48 in context is the end times. The judgment then. It is also now when we die. We do not die and then have to wait for the end times before we are judged. We are judged immediately. So, Luke 12:42-48 is for the people that have died and those that die before the end times judgement and it also is for those judged in the end times. Luke 12:42-44 is an immediate reward, the Catholic saint, I have to use symbols or KZbin will delete my comment Luke 12:45-46 is a permanent puni*hmen+. Luke 12:47-48 are purgatory for the people that knew better and those that didn’t know better. Verse 48 is how non-Catholics can be Catholic in an extraordinary sense. Both of these are temporary when compared to 45-46.

[@paulmualdeave5063]

C) We have initial justification, baptism, 1 Peter 3:20-21. From there we have increases and decreases in justification. Jesus spoke on this in Matthew 25. We have works that increase justification and works that decrease justification. It can be decreased to the point one loses salvation. The Bible shows we will not be equal in heaven. We have to do things like feeding the hungry (Repeated in James 2) to go to heaven (James 2:22) and then Jesus said if we don’t feed the hungry we will not go to heaven

[@clivejames5058]

@@paulmualdeave5063 Thank you.

[@clivejames5058]

@@paulmualdeave5063 Very interesting. Thank you.

[@paulmualdeave5063]

@ Sure. I believe there is a verse we use that has a purging fire. Ill have to look it up later. I have no clue on B. Catholic Answers has some good articles on this if you google catholic answers purgatory. They have one on Bible verses

[@theupsidedownminddickens7242]

Notice in Isaiah the sin was purged instantly not over time.

[@cynthiahall9297]

In regards to the thief on the cross, Jesus didn’t go straight to heaven he went to hell first.

[@benoitmeyrieux2446]

To be precise Jesus did not go to the hell of damnation but to the Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, to free the just who had gone before Him.

[@cynthiahall9297]

⁠​⁠@@benoitmeyrieux2446 your absolutely correct. My point is that Jesus did not go directly to heaven. I did not express it correctly.

[@johnpodolski3341]

So Jesus die for nothing his death doesn’t take ours sin away he must be pretty miffed with that😢😢😢😢😢

[@kwing6017]

the former pastor is right about the word purgatory. even the eastern orthodox don't like the word purgatory but they believe in it just like catholics do because that is what the fathers taught.

[@michaelbryson5191]

The thief on the cross we learn threw the saints that his father was a thief in egypt and mary and Joseph and Jesus stay with his family and the thief on the cross his name was damus and had lepers and bath in the water after Jesus and was heal so when the holy family was leaving for Israel the family asked Mary to bless them and to remember his family when they get to there kingdom in heaven and told st Joseph to bless them and that why he said this day you will be with Jesus in heaven because Joseph his father bless the thief family in egypt

[@Nolongeraslave]

When you don't trust Jesus' power to save to the utmost, purgatory makes sense.

[@alwaysathome]

Anyone in purgatory will eventually be in heaven

[@Wgaither1]

@@alwaysathomeWhy does purgatory take longer for some people?

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@alwaysathome And how long will the purifying fire burn you to qualify for heaven? Is it written anywhere?

[@zacharyvandress1120]

Jesus death on the cross made possible everyone's salvation. Sins are forgiven but the stain of sin still remains on the soul. When you understand that purgatory makes sense. Protestants have this fase Idea that comes from Martin Luther and every protestant after him. All you need is faith alone for salvation. That idea of faith alone came from Martin Luther And is not biblical.

[@zacharyvandress1120]

​@@NolongeraslaveIs the judgment of God written somewhere?

[@richardjackson7887]

Its funny how you find everything but the way of salvation!

[@waynecornell-w5u]

are you still a pastor?

[@NobleEdward]

Good question 🤔 If he is still the pastor, I would worry a lot, for his eyes have been veiled, that the phrase “at the day of Jesus Christ” in Phil 1 vs6 appears to him as “eternity”! He is lost, so sad! As for protestants, they should rejoice, if he is gone, as the Lord removes tares from wheat at appropriate times, constantly.

[@kevinnickel7529]

That wouldn't be possible. One cannot be both Catholic and protestant simultaneously.

[@izacksmyth5497]

If 1 Corinthians 3: 10-15 is your proof text, sorry. Our lives will be judge for the works we have done. Our hearts will be revealed for the reasons we did what we did in this world. Did we try to please God or man. What was the motivation for what we did. It has nothing to do with salvation.

[@KennyBurchard]

It does in that only the saved undergo the final purgation which if one watched the video they would know. Only the saved go through this fiery cleansing.

[@izacksmyth5497]

@KennyBurchard That is not the context of the passage. Paul is talking about building on the foundation that is Christ. Only presise metals will survive. Lesser materials will burn up. The passage is mostly speaking of elders and teachers.

[@KennyBurchard]

@@izacksmyth5497😂heh. Okay. What percentage of the passage is about elders and teachers? I ask because you say it’s mostly (but not totally) about elders and teachers. I am guessing you would say you believe in Sola Scriptura. Let’s start here. Let’s use your idea to work through the first 3 chapters so far. Let’s begin with the word elders. Find that word for me anywhere in chapters 1-3 and then take me through how this mostly applies to elders works and not “any man” like the text actually says. Standing by for the for word elders first. Go! Also notice how your second engagement with me here is different from the first where you thought (rightly) that the text applies to all our lives and then somehow changed to “mostly elders” (which doesn’t do anything to strengthen your point at all).

[@izacksmyth5497]

@KennyBurchard So, the fact that Paul says he laid the foundation and then talks about adding building materials speaks individuals other than Paul building on the foundation (Christ being the corner stone/foundation of the faith) adding to what Paul had completed. Elders/leaders are implied because they were involved in the formation of the local church. The following verse speaks of God's Temple. Now, we should all have a part in this building process, but the idea of building would imply trained individuals.

[@theupsidedownminddickens7242]

Do you think that God cannot purify you in a twinkling of an eye? Have you never seen someone completely changed in a single moment? Have you never seen a disgusting human being encounter Jesus and the next day be a true changed saint? If He can do that in this life how much more and how much quicker while standing in His absolute presence? Also Cor. Is talking about the final judgement obviously. Notice he says ON that Day not BEFORE. Which day? The one and only day that matters. The Lord's Day.

[@lexludovice3458]

Guys, do not invent the belief about PURGATORY in ROMAN Catholic. Here are the interpretations of your Popes. According to Catholic popes, purgatory is a state of purification, not a place, where souls are cleansed of sin before entering heaven: Pope Benedict XVI: In his encyclical Spe Salvi, he described purgatory as a state of purification. Pope John Paul II: In 1999, he said that purgatory is a condition of existence, not a place. It is PURIFICATION of SINS!! Do not put other words. All Roman Catholics will need to pass through this because of wrong beliefs. We are all sinners but true Christians will not see His wrath. Roman Catholic doctrine doesn’t have this grace. You are thought that you will go directly to heaven but the pope said you need to be purified in the purgatory. See Malachi 3:3: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the sons of Levi, and refine them like gold and silver". Search how silver and gold are purified. That is how Roman Catholic has to go through.

[@Alicia-qb2vx]

thief on the cross . paradise in Hebrew is holding area.

[@hiltonchapman4844]

The one thing I really can't understand... and at 70+ YO i have plenty of time on my hands to ponder the issue... the one thing I really can't understand is how extremely vitriolic and phlegmatic ppl can become so reasonable and cordial (yes, yes, I know that is part of the name of this YTC!) - as I was saying, ppl who once cussed out the papists of the Roman church become such well-spoken speakers on conversion to Catholicism. It is not just a one-off thing either... tons of protestants (pastors and non-pastors alike) are extremely offensive when they talk about Catholicism - to the point of being polemical. And yet, they convert to Catholicism, and now they are the MOST congenial of ppl. What gives? I have a sneaking suspicion here - maybe, maybe they *knew* (when they were protestant) that their antagonism towards Catholicism was based on semi-truths and full-on deception. The deception here is just a matter of concealing the facts of the matter, the back story, the context, the history of the topic of discussion. The deception is of mentioning an assumption as a certainty, of speaking of the assumption in such a matter-of-fact tone that the audience perceives it as established fact. So it might be that that nagging knowledge of duplicity (in their arguments) that caused them to be so aggressive when they spoke about Catholicism. I am always astounded by the quality of Biblical scholarship that these converts to Catholicism (from Protestantism) bring into the Church. I am equally amazed at the change in their demeanour post-conversion! Viva Cristo Rey! HC-JAIPUR (11/Dec/2024) .

[@lmr-xt7hw]

I am thinking along similar lines. I am observing the level of hatr*d towards the Catholic Church. In my 60+ years I have never heard a Catholic attacking and challenging a protestant. We think they are misguided but Jesus will see their heart - not for us to judge. I used to be massively in favour of ecumenism - what I experienced was that us catholics had to pretend we were Protestants not making the sign of the cross, not mentioning Our Lady, purgatory, as not to „offend“ the Protestsnts. That is not dialogue that is betraying our faith and therefore God. Protestants are not interested in Dislogue just ridiculing and spouting their verses without realising that truths ard not just found in one sentence but by studying the whole. So now, I just tell them if they don’t understand something to go l obline and leave me alone. I now only want to talk to people about my faith who are genuinely interested not to Protestant point scorers.

[@pianoatthirty]

It's much simpler - if you are taught from the moment you're saved that "Catholics are evil, pagan, devil worshipers", you unknowingly hold onto that belief without question -- until God comes along and opens your eyes. Like racism, anti-Catholic hate is taught and spread, and unless the person has a enough faith and intelligence to discern his way out of the Protestant lies, he will stay stuck in his anti-Catholic hate. When your eyes are open, however, how glorious it is! The entire Bible finally makes sense! Converts express this relief in their scholarship.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@hiltonchapman4844 It is a beautiful music in their ears to claim they were "anti-catholic" and now they are Catholics ~ most of them were Church-hoppers as far as my observation is concerned ~ and not saved!

[@kwing6017]

viva

[@kennethprather9633]

I was in a motorcycle accident and two angels took me to a room and a 19 year old came out and sat down across from me. We talked about issues with my mother in law and at the end he said I have to go back and take care of his daughter! It was my Father in law!, I asked him what happened and he said he died and went to heaven immediately! He was saved by a Catholic Priest an hour after we left the hospital and two hours after that he died from a blood clot. He had no Baptism, no fruits, no Gifts, no works. And no Purgatory! Thank God the Light of the Father purifies us! Thank God the Catholic priest of a non-denominational Chapel was his personal friend!

[@zacharyvandress1120]

And you believe that nonsense

[@kennethprather9633]

@zacharyvandress1120 You mean what really happened?

[@zacharyvandress1120]

@kennethprather9633 No I mean an experience you had you did not die. Everybody that goes through a nde says a different experience including my brother who was given up for dead in a motorcycle accident. You did not go through a judgment and why would you deny purgatory. Many people had nde about purgatory are they lying also?

[@kennethprather9633]

@zacharyvandress1120 My Father in law went to heaven immediately. This is what I understand. Are you telling me Catholics have to go to Purgatory and Christians dont? Also there is no biblical evidence for Purgatory. But there is evidence of the Light of the Father continually cleansing us. According to the Bible, particularly 1 John 1:7, "the Light of the Father" (referring to Jesus Christ as the light of the world) does cleanse us from sin, as it states that "if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.". Key points: "Walking in the light": This signifies living a life aligned with God's righteousness, following Jesus' teachings, and actively turning away from sin. Cleansing power of Jesus' blood: The Bible describes Jesus' sacrifice as the means through which we are cleansed from sin.

[@kennethprather9633]

@zacharyvandress1120 I see a couple of stories online of people with near death experiences that say they saw Purgatory, but none of them have Purgatory in them. And one was on drugs, so he could see anything flying pink elephants or whatever he could imagine.

[@enriquemora3718]

Stop talking go straight to the point where is it in the bible

[@samyako9701]

Her a catholic from Iraq ❤ 👋 We are only 1%

[@larrybedouin2921]

The state of the dead, according to the word of God. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die* {Genesis 2:17} Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep* O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, 👉till my change come. ... His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. {Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21} And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God. {Job 19:26} Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest. {The Preacher 9:10} Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish* {Psalm 146:3-4} Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." {John 11:12-14} ... Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection 👉at the last day. Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:" {John 11:24-25} But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days* {Daniel 12:13} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life. {John 3:16} And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die* {Genesis 3:4} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire* {Ezekiel 28:14} ^ (satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.) The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? *He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil* {Isaiah 33:14-15} If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.

[@andrewpatton5114]

It is also written, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him, all are alive." Jesus told us about the intermediate state in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, and the Book of Revelation shows that there are souls of the just in Heaven now, while they await the Resurrection. These are the great cloud of witnesses spoken of in Hebrews.

[@CliffMendes]

New data to prove NEED OF PURGATORY from new testament which nobody has used till date. 1 JOHN 5: 16-17 16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death. This indicates differentiation between MORTAL and VINEAL sins as catholic church believes. This clearly states that any third person cannot pray for forgiveness of other peoples mortal sins but only vineal sins. But the person himself can repent and use the SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION for the forgiveness of his Mortal sins. Now bible clear teaches that " The wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23 Suppose if a person dies in there can be only three situations now. 1 He has died in the state of Mortal Sin and he now deserves second death as the Judgement. God will throw him in eternal fire for the same. 2 If a person dies in sinless and perfect state then he will get eternal life as the LORD promised. 3 He has died in the state of VINEAL sin which does not deserve second death because bible says "THERE IS A SIN WHICH DOES NOT LEAD TO DEATH " But he cannot enter heaven B'coz Nothing impure can enter heaven in the presence of GOD. The only option remains is that he has to be purged and purified before being accepted into the presence of God in heaven

[@alwaysathome]

That is beautiful and well reasoned. Thank you, you clearly love the scriptures and spend much time in them. I am investigating Catholic beliefs, some are challenging - but most are so validating and truly humbling and lovely. This is a piece of the puzzle that I needed.

[@clivejames5058]

You're right. The Catholic Church teaches that everyone in purgatory only has venial sins and no un-repented mortal sins. The latter will take you to hell (and everyone in purgatory is already saved).

[@CliffMendes]

​@@clivejames5058Yes you got it right. I have still researched sone more amazing teachings of the LORD. I can share if you wish.