Build The Improved DCC Ballast Lamp Circuit Breaker (109)

[@georgegilliam9151]

Thank you, I currently have two sections with 1156 bulbs on my layout. I'm going to change them out to the circuit in the video.

[@mandbhomestead]

Great video Larry, I like the idea of the decrease of the heat on the bulb with the resettable resistor. Thanks for sharing and stay safe. Ken

[@howardelsey]

Thanks for the information on the updated circuit break protection using an auto bulb. I raced out and bought the bulb and resistor, came home and built it. Marvelous - It works perfectly. Can you go on to explain how to add a buzzer alarm in case you don't see the lamp? Many thanks from down under (Australia)!

[@TheDCCGuy]

Glad to hear those worked for you. I can’t think of a way to easily energize a buzzer with this bulb setup since power stays on even when a short circuit occurs. You might check this website, it is mainly about the 1156 bulb but may offer some suggestions www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/1156.htm#_top .

[@FBMRR]

Wish i saw this months ago. I installed 16 1157 bulbs under my layout.

[@SleeTheSloth]

Great video!!! Thanks!

[@farmerdave7965]

Excellent idea.

[@chuckholsclaw6829]

Larry, I have watched this video a couple of times now. I bought the bulbs and fuses and I built one put in series on my first block. Turned on my dcc system, shorted the track and the bulb didn't light. I thought maybe I had soldered the wire to the wrong filament with the fuse, so I changed the wire to the other terminal and tried again, same result, my nce booster shuts off quicker than the bulb has a chance to light. I read on wiring for dcc about using taillight bulbs and it indicated that this may happen. So I guess the bulbs won't work for me.

[@TheDCCGuy]

You might try adjusting the trip sensitivity or delay time if that is an option with your system.

[@chuckholsclaw6829]

Ok, I'm not sure if that's even possible. I will to check and see

[@michaelmcdougall4527]

Hi Larry thanks for the video great video wanted to know the part number for the correct PTC ? Thanks

[@TheDCCGuy]

Its in the description.

[@michaelmcdougall4527]

The DCC Guy 👍🏻👍🏻🚂

[@walnutgroverangers]

Hello Larry, I’ve got a question for you on the ballast lamp. installed the first ballast lamp on the at first drop feeder on my layout and I wired it to the black call it negative for a better word for it as I run black and red wires, but when I put two or more locomotives on the track, the light comes on it doesn’t go completely bright unless there is a short, but it does light up. I’m NCE Powercab in factory configuration with no booster. What could be causing the 1156 to be lighting up when the trains are running plus if I run more than one locomotive it slows everything down I could run three at one time and I have the speed is cut by half a couple of these are old blue box converted but in by themself they’re only drawing about .3 to .4 mA when I run all of them all three is running up to about one amp the light is growing brighter as I add the second and third locomotive not sure what’s going on. Thought I would reach out to you for your advice.

[@TheDCCGuy]

That’s the downside of using ballast lamps, as you increase the current flow through the they start to use current the selves and eventually take it all. I thought I mentioned that in one of my videos on them. At any rate the best choice is a true electronic circuit breaker since they do not use current except when they hit their rated break point.

[@apocalypserailroad9047]

Larry, that layout in the beginning of the video looks amazing, do you have any videos on it? Thanks.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I eventually plan to do a layout tour, and then some videos on building the layout and scenery. I have a lot more topics than time to shoot the videos.

[@apocalypserailroad9047]

@@TheDCCGuy - I totally understand. I look forward to seeing anything you put out on it in the future. Thanks!

[@garylewis3815]

Hi Larry, great informative video on the ballast lamp. I am going to look at fitting one to my layout . I a question regarding the DCC Alpha Meter which I have on my layout - do you fit the bulb on the input side or output side of the meter ?

[@TheDCCGuy]

The bulb or circuit breaker will always be on the output of the meter. The rest depends on how you are wiring the layout. If you have multiple blocks supplied by the one command station or booster, then you would have a bulb and power bus for each block and they would be on the out side of the Alpha Meter unless you also have 4 of those. In my case I have the wire from the command station going to the meter and from it to the PSX4 circuit breaker. It then splits the current and sends it out over 4 separate power buses. That arrangement allows me to see how much power all four blocks are pulling but not each individual block. Hope that is not information overload.

[@garylewis3815]

@@TheDCCGuy Hi Larry, many thanks for the reply. I only have the one power bus circuit covering the layout. I may split into districts at later date so many thanks for advice regarding the set up for this too. Regards Gary.

[@skyjim777]

I am running O Scale and am using 5-10 amps. My electrical knowledge is very limited but I am assuming this will not work for my number of amps. Will it work? If not, any way I can make my own circuit breaker? I am sorry if this question has already been answered somewhere else and I have overlooked it. I thoroughly enjoy your videos!

[@TheDCCGuy]

I honestly don’t know what amperage they pop at. In additon I really don’t recommend their use but did the video since so many asked for the info. I prefer the PSXX.

[@skyjim777]

@@TheDCCGuy thanks for the quick response. I’ll keep researching and learning. A lot of people don’t use breakers it seems and don’t have any problems. That’s fine. For me, I don’t want to take any unnecessary risks with my equipment though. Breakers cost money but replacing equipment costs more. I really appreciate you! Keep up the good work.

[@christopherayotte3179]

Hi Larry, thanks for the info. I have four blocks set up on my layout using the 1156 bulbs. After viewing this I am going to change them out with this setup. Question though, since these are all installed under the layout, is there a way to add an LED light to this on the control panel to show a problem sooner? Chris

[@TheDCCGuy]

Abiut the only simple thing I can think of right now is wiring a LED with a 1000 ohm resistor across the leads of the 2.1 amp filament and put it on the fascia or local control panel. The LED would be on normally and then go off when the PTC fuse trips and shuts off power to that filament. Some folks who use these put the bulb in a building on the layout, you can easily see when the bulb comes on!

[@markdebsauzzietravels]

Morning Larry Just a thought from a novice modeller, could you just build these bulbs into your facer beside your power supply and in that way would be easy to see and could also be marked for what block the short is on ?? Cheers Mark

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, I guess that would work depending on the length of wire run from the block to the fascia. Most folks simply put them under the edge or on the face of the layout in the block they protect.

[@markdebsauzzietravels]

@@TheDCCGuy Thank you, so if I understand it correctly you could run 6" of wire along your fascia to a section then place your bulb in line and run off to that block ?? Cheers Mark

[@richmurphy6043]

Hi Larry, Don't know if you will see this question but going to ask anyway. Can you provide an additional circuit diagram using a LED to this Short Circuit 2057 Bulb and Trip Fuse that could be seen on a Control Panel.

[@TheDCCGuy]

That gets complicated and ?i have never seen anyone else do this. Some more complex circuit breakers off this capability but not something this simple.

[@richmurphy6043]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for your reply Larry, never thought you would see this one. In the process of building a new layout and on the old one the tail light bulb was always a visual sore spot! Now in the phase of making Control Panels for this layout and looking for a much better visual approach. If you happen to have any advice will appreciate your reply on the subject. And, thanks again for your informative channel "LOVE IT".

[@HumancityJunction]

In your recent videos you built a DCC control box and included 2x PSX electronic circuit breakers. How well do the Lamp Circuit Breakers work with the PSX electronic circuit breakers? When creating a dead short, using the screwdriver, will the bulb come on or will the PSX trip? What amperage have you set the PSX at to use in conjunction with the bulbs? The default is 3.81amps. Have you used the NCE CP6? I know they are only 1amp bulbs, not the 2.5amp bulbs you are using. The CP6 is $32, so you are paying $5.33 per bulb/block. Where I am confused with circuit breakers is whether redundancy is a good thing. If you are using a bulb and a PSX and a control system with overcurrent protection, you have three levels of circuit protection. Is this overkill, or is this exactly what you should be doing? Thanks for your videos.

[@TheDCCGuy]

You wouldn’t use both, either the bulbs or the PSX circuit breaker.

[@useruser-oc8xn]

I know this is an old thread, but if ytou use a 3057 you can just solder to the wires, no need to try to solder to the side of the bulb.

[@Tom-vd1kr]

Larry, I have tried the 1156 & 2057. When I short the track the command station opens the circuit every time and the bulbs never come on. So of course the whole layout shuts down. Wired per D. Bronson's diagram. My system is the MRC wireless, 3.5 amp rating. Looks like I won't be able to use this. What say you? Thanks. Tom

[@TheDCCGuy]

Hmmm, one thing to keep in mind is that bulb filaments work faster as they heat up. So try running some locos before testing the shorts. That way with current flowing through the filaments they should warm up some and light up and protect the booster.

[@Tom-vd1kr]

Larry, We run 12 or 14 gauge buss wires to 18 or 20 gauge drop down feeders, now I install this bulb in series with the drop wire and run power through this tiny, tiny filament in the bulb. How does this affect power to the rail. I am thinking resistance must be great.??

[@TheDCCGuy]

With ballast lamps you divide your layout into blocks or power districts each with their own connection to the main power bus. The ballast lamps goes at the point where the district bus wires are connected to the main power bus. The resistance of the filaments in the bulb are negligible but rises as the amperage running through them increases as you run locomotives. When the amperage reaches the operating amperage of the bulb then the light turns on and the current draw is stabilized at that amperage which should be less than what your booster can supply. With the improved ballast lamp design the current initially flows through both filaments until it gets large enough to light the bulbs and then the attached circuit breaker trips which turns off the large filament and but allows the smaller one to do all the work at a lower amperage thus using less of what your booster can put out. In my earlier video on ballast lamps I discussed why I don’t like to use them but my friend with a huge layout uses them successfully and uses a single 8 amp Digitrax DCS240 to run the whole layout and we have never had any command stations shutdowns during op sessions. However he only runs a single loco on each train.

[@Tom-vd1kr]

@@TheDCCGuy If I have multiple drops in a block, can I just use one lamp, and what is best placement in the block?

[@Tom-vd1kr]

Tom 1 second ago @Model Railroading If I have multiple drops in a block, can I just use one lamp, and what is best placement in the block?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes one lamp is enough and the lamp should go at the point where the block power bus is attached to the main power bus.

[@kennedygauger4680]

Will this work for a DC bus? I have an accessory bus for my Tortoise switch machines powered from a 3 Amp brick power supply. Somewhere there is a short that stops power to all switch machines. The power supply is putting out 12 VDC based on multimeter readings. The phenomenon seems to be intermittent and I’m trying to isolate the problem. Thanks, Kennedy

[@TheDCCGuy]

I don’t know of anyone who has tried it but it should work since ballast lamps have been in use for decades. There used to be a commercial power pack with a ballast lamp installed right on it.

[@guyrusso9621]

Great video series Larry. With the 1156 bulbs it doesn't make any difference which wire is connected to the bus and which is connected to the sub-bus. In your video it appears that this is not the case. So does it matter now which wire is connected to which side of the bulb for this circuit?

[@TheDCCGuy]

No, you just have to get the correct connection on the base contacts. The good thong is there are only two choices so do it one way and if it doesn’t work move the wire to the other contact-that’s what I did the first time I made one.

[@guyrusso9621]

Larry, Thanks for the quick reply. If you don't mind I would like your opinion on the following: Conventional wisdom says to use the 1156 tail light bulb. It is rated as 12.8v and 26.9w. When I could not find the 1156s I tried a 1003 bulb. It works! It is rated at 12.8v but only 12w. Do you think the 1003 bulbs present more or less of a threat/problem than the 1156 bulb? I am guessing that the reduced wattage means that it doesn't burn as bright and it emits half the heat. Physically they are just a bit smaller in size than the 1156. They seem bright enough, however, for my home layout. I have no idea what the amp rating is for these bulbs. If indeed you agree that the 1003 decreases the heat issue, the 1003 bulbs are still taking 2.1 amps (2.5 - .4) away from the rest of the layout when they are lit. As such, only if I run into performance issues on the rest of the layout when a 1003 is lit, should I convert the layout over to the 2057s. Would you agree with my logic?

[@freakazoid5907]

Great video, thanks for posting. Question - does the use of taillight bulbs limit the number of locomotives you can run at once? For example, NCE website say to assume 0.5 amps per locomotive when sizing your system needs. If two consists of 3 locomotives were running up a grade for 3 amps (6 engines x 0.5A), would the block that is protected by a taillight bulb shut down?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, but that is also true for electronic circuit breakers-you have to choose a trip current. The 0.5 amp value is a maximum. Most of the time our locos are sitting still or moving so slow they may only pull half that. When I installed the Alpha Meter on my layout I had 65 locos idling away, most with sound off, and they pulled 1.9 amps-65 locos! Just a tip the bigger your blocks the more more amps each will need and vice versa.

[@raymondjackson6069]

This seems like a solution, but what concerns me is the time it takes to react to a short. According to the spec sheets for these, the best is .5 seconds. Is that enough? Thanks.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have a friend with 50 on his layout and they work reliably. NCE makes their commercial version (CP6) that uses festoon bulbs. The 0.5 sec delay can be an issue if the command station/boosters shut down faster. I have not heard a lot of complaints from folks running into that problem as it really is temperature dependent and once the bulb filament heats up a little as locos are run in the block the delay deceases. Make one up and give it a test.

[@ad-hocmodeller5285]

5:21 Will circuit breaker inside the booster trip in this case?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Obviously not, if the booster had shut down the light would have gone off. The bulb merely LIMITS the current flowing through the short, which is why I don’t recommend their use. But folks want to know how they work so I oblige.

[@frankhellman6879]

Hi Larry. If a short occurs inside the locomotive, say at the motor, is it possible that the continued 2.5A current for 30 seconds could create enough heat to burn out the decoder? Or do decoders have some sort of built in current limiter?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Some do. Some don’t. That’s why I always test a new installation on a service mode programming track-they are current limited to 250 milliamps. If a short occurs later, due for example to an exposed solder joint on a wire you can usually kiss the decoder goodbye-always protect joints with heat shrink tubing as I have shown in all my videos and discussed in MR articles.

[@codecage9333]

How do you determine the 0.4A terminal on the bulb from the 2.1A terminal?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Here is a link to rr-cirkits website where you can download the diagram shoeing the connections www.rr-cirkits.com/Notebook/short.html

[@codecage9333]

@@TheDCCGuy I had already looked at the rr-cirkits document, but I don't see where it identifies which terminal is which either. Maybe just using an Ohmmeter and determining the lead with the lowest resistance, and then soldering to that lead the wire that comes from your positive buss wire?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Use a set of clips leads and a 12 volt source and find which light up the big filament and which light up the little one, that’s how I figured it out.Ir wire it as I show in the video and if it doesn’t work then flip the wires.

[@denniswilson2690]

Question won't the auto bulb's amperage restriction reduce the amperage to a block even though there's no shorts?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, the bulb will only conduct freely up to 2.5 amps, and commercial DCC circuit breakers will do the same thing-they all trip at the set current-they just give you more choices of trip current. Just like in your house if you try to run too many appliances on the same circuit the breaker will trip. Try running two hair dryers in the same bathroom at the same time.

[@denniswilson2690]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for the prompt response. Then what does one do when you need more than 2.5 amps for your block?

[@TheDCCGuy]

That is one of the limitations of ballast lamps. One option is to divide the layout into more blocks so you spread out the load. I have a friend who has 30 ballast lamps on his layout. I doubt he ever has more than 2 locos in a block at the same time. Of course the best option is to spring for some of the actual electronic circuit breakers I showed in my video on circuit breakers. These generally allow you to choose from a range of trip currents when setting them up so you can balance your needs. I’ll be talking about this on Friday.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great video Larry. I'm sorry to go "off topic" but do you know the ESU software I require to function map a V3.5 decoder? Clearly, the current version will not work with older decoders. Regards Charlie

[@TheDCCGuy]

Charlie, the ESU website at www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/ has some older stuff on it including a zip file of 3.5 sound files. I am assuming that the current software will program the older decoders as long as you have the sound files, but I may be wrong.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Charlie-I just heard back from my ESU contact and he said the current LokProgrammer software will work with the v.3.5 decoders and sound files. Do you have the LokProgrammer device? I will eventually be doing a video on a way to use the LokProgrammer software without the hardware device and then transfer the CV settings to DecoderPro for final programming, do you have that working?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Larry, V3.5 are not listed in the drop down menus but, as you said it works fine. Many thanks for this. I’m currently working on the “Uncouple” movement which is refusing to play ball! I’ll keep you posted. Regards Charlie.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, I can see that getting the timing right could be an issue. In your goods yard setting You could place an optical detector ahead of the electromagnet. That way when the loco covers it, the magnet would activate and allow you to do a backing move to uncouple then move forward to clear the optical sensor. You just have to set the count down timer long enough to accomplish these moves. Of course just placing a pushbutton on the fascia would be easier, require fewer components, and provide leeway for slow operators. Good luck with it-Larry

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Actually Larry, my issue is with the ESU Programmer. It allows me to program in the Uncouple movement, but still nothing materialises when auctioned. I have had some success but limited. I must have missed something in the programming, perhaps another setting.

[@alanswallow9033]

what rating does the ptc have to have ? cheers Alan Christchurch New Zealand.

[@TheDCCGuy]

If you go to the Mouser website and search for the part number I listed in the description it has a complete datasheet.

[@georgegilliam9151]

What is the size or holding current of the PTC fuse that you used in your video?

[@TheDCCGuy]

It holds at 0.9 and trips at 1.8A. However Dick Bronson explained to me that even though the trip current is 1.8A it will still take 30-40 seconds at 2.1A for it to actually trip. It is a heat thing where as the amps go up heat increases and the polymer changes form and the embedded carbon particles get farther apart and finally break the circuit. As it cools the carbon particles get close enough to begin conducting again-brilliant design!

[@larrydayhoff999]

Once it trips, how long does it take for it to cool down so it works the same way again.

[@TheDCCGuy]

The cool down reset time varies but it usually is only a few seconds, less time than it will take you to clear the short and get the loco or car back on the track. It depends somewhat on how long it is allowed to heat up and how hot it gets. It really is a neat chemical reaction inside the component that is explained in a wiki post.

[@richmurphy6043]

Well I finally took some time to see if it could be done. Bingo, it took me a while, but with a friend got a circuit to work. And, it wound-up not being all that difficult. If you see this message how can I send it to you.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Thanks, but why would you send it to me, didn’t you build it to use on your layout?

[@richmurphy6043]

@@TheDCCGuy Larry, will be making 10 of them for my layout that has 10 blocks, just thought you may want the circuit schematic for yourself or others.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I misunderstood and thought you wanted to send me one of your completed circuit breakers. You can send me the circuit to ljpuckett@ me dot com .

[@richmurphy6043]

@@TheDCCGuy Sorry for the delay. Sent an email with a photo and description.

[@jdbristow515]

How Do you determine the smaller filament they look alike?

[@TheDCCGuy]

If you look close one filament is taller than the other. And if you listen closely in the video I pointed out which way the tall and shorter filaments were facing as I was soldering on the black wire. That said, when I made my first one of these I got it backwards myself. All I had to do was move the black wire from one contact on the bottom to the other and it worked.

[@paparoysworkshop]

I watched this video carefully but still fail to see the perceived value of a dual filament bulb system. I've been using lightbulbs to protect against short circuits for years and it has never been a concern to maintain current to unaffected blocks while a short was happening in a specific block. The only concern is to find and eliminate the short as quickly as possible. If you don't want the bulb to draw large amounts of current, just use a bulb that draws less. No need to have one that starts off drawing 2.5 amps only to drop to 0.4 amps. Long before that happens, hopefully, the short has already been eliminated. I'm not saying this is a bad idea. I'm just saying I don't see any value in using it. A single filament bulb located in an area that will draw your attention ASAP. is all that is needed. While on this topic, I will add a little something that I like to do along with the using lightbulbs as short protection. In addition to the bulb, I also add a SPDT switch with a neutral center. ON/OFF/ON In the first on position, it is simply wired in series with the bulb. In the off position, it does exactly that. It shuts down power to that block without affecting the rest of the layout. This allows some minor maintenance to be carried out while the layout is still functioning. And lastly, the second "ON" position creates a short to test the bulb itself (without sending any power to the track). It can happen that a block is getting no power simply because the bulb has burnt out. The switch has one more feature that is very important. I've heard of people who test the short protection of their layout by purposefully shorting the tracks with a metal object. This can cause voltage and/or current spikes that can destroy the decoders of any loco sitting on the track. Without going into details, many people don't realize that in the short time you place an object across the rails, it is not a clean short. In that fraction of a second it takes, you can actually short and un-short the track hundreds of times. The term is called "switch bounce". Therefore, use of an actual switch makes testing safer. (Even a switch suffers from "switch bounce" but much less than creating a manual short) Just my two cents worth. You make wonderful videos. I enjoy watching them. Keep up the good work.

[@markmatteo2417]

So an 1156 won’t work with a power cab 1.8 amp system

[@TheDCCGuy]

Not reliably. NCE sells their own system with lower amperage bulbs for use with the PowerCab.

[@abbofun9022]

I truly do not understand why you would even need this bulb-contraption with a DCC command station set up. All the systems I know detect a short and immediately switch off the power to the track. Seems to me by far the safest way of operating, remove the short and then switch it on again. If your command station doesn’t do that would seriously suggest to switch to a more modern one.

[@randysrockandrollrailroad8207]

On a large layout with blocks each block is protected and will not shut down the entire layout, other trains will continue to run

[@TheDCCGuy]

Randy hit the nail on the head. I’ll be doing a video on power management concepts using circuit breakers later.

[@charlesmitchell487]

I'm just getting into dcc so naturally I'm getting quite a bit of conflicting information, especially on bus wiring. Some videos leave fuses out completely and say "use as short a feeder wire as is practical and solder to the bus," never mentioning a fuse/circuit breaker. Clearly bad advice. Thanks for the help!

[@lgrfbs]

I personally would not use this solution, feel that there is a risk of damage to the model's wheels. In Sweden, it is recommended not to use this solution. Can you afford to buy a model locomotive, then you can also afford to buy a real protection for your model locomotive. And that protection is no harder to install than the bulb solution.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have heard folks say that will happen with some of the older slower relay based autoreversers but have never actually seen an example of it myself. In the past it was supposed to be more of an issue with Z and N scale locos. The main issue with #1156 bulbs is they allow the full 2.5 amps to flow freely through the wheels, etc., and this can create enough heat to melt plastic side frames and other parts. With this #2057 circuit the initial 2.5 amps is reduced quickly to 0.4 amps greatly reducing the chance for damage. I know of one occurrence where an N scale modeler was using a 10 amp booster without any circuit breaker protection and unfortunately left a loco shorted out for a very long time. The heat melted a section of rail under the loco wheels! Since NCE sells a similar product using ballast lamps I doubt there is a problem as the liability issue would prevent that.

[@lgrfbs]

​@@TheDCCGuy All right, go with your solution. In any case, I will choose a better solution to my system from my point of view.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Personally I use the PSX4 electronic circuit breaker but I know a lot of folks who still use the #1156 bulbs and I would rather they try this improved circuit instead-much safer!

[@SFCRambo60]

can you please have a listing of your parts you use. eBay and others have a mess of different PTC Fuses.

[@SFCRambo60]

Tried to find Dick Brondson Railroad Circuit as your Transcripts said and there is no such person. Your Transcripts needs to be corrected.

[@TheDCCGuy]

You need to read the description for this video.