Building A Model Railroad--Screw vs Glue, Plan Changes, Q&A (374)

[@UneducatedEngineer444]

Always glad to see new videos from you Larry, you have really inspired me and helped me with my current and future layouts. I'll be watching every episode of this series!

[@RodBroune]

My background is structural engineering, and I would NEVER rely just on a PVA gluing system for any timber assembly. Also, screws allow quick assembly without waiting for glue to dry. In terms of dimensional stability there is not much you can do about temperature changes, but the really big and nasty movements result from moisture changes, so use seasoned timber and coat it with enamel paint on ALL surfaces (not just those visible). Remember the three rules of timber preservation: 1. Keep it dry. 2. Don’t let it get wet. 3. Keep water off it. Larry, I hope you have a happy and healthy 2025, greetings from Sydney, Australia (we are not for sale 😂).

[@TheDCCGuy]

Great info, thanks.

[@AllenCNW441]

I agree dimensional lumber is the way to go- use “select” vs “common” / worth the extra cost

[@pieroluciano3272]

When done right with pilot holes, using screws lasts forever and looks awesome! Great video! 👍

[@brianbs7348]

thank you, Larry from the UK

[@scottleidenberger4401]

A counter sink is very useful to stop the wood from splitting at the corners.

[@TheDCCGuy]

As you’ll see I use one all the time.

[@MRR_Shadowolf]

Great video, lots of interesting tips/techniques! I am using 1x3s for my HO shelf layout. I completely understand your logic on screws (mechanical) connections vice glue. For me however, as limited physically, trying to reduce the number of times I have to lift a drill etc. I'm using glue and a brad nailer with 2" brads. These are not modules nor will they be moving, unless we do. I am doing 8' sections where I can but accounting for connecting them together etc. I debated 6' sections but wasn't quite sure of consistent stud placement in the train room (HVAC equipped room part of the house). Again, always enjoy your videos and always learning something from your channel. Glad to see you are doing well of late.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing.👍

[@tomsrensen9382]

I've commented before, a fresh build deserves a fresh name and intro. Unless, of course, your equipment has already been lettered.

[@randydobson1863]

Hi Larry & it's is Randy and i like yours video is Cool & Thanks Larry & Friends & Randy

[@ThisWorks4Me]

I do like your videos. That said, I learned in shop class in the 1070's that glue is stronger than the underlying wood. I live in South Carolina and never have had any problems with glue loosening in non-climate controlled areas.

[@neilharbott8394]

Ah-ha some timely content 😁 I think the other (bigger?) problem with making bench modules from 4'x8' ply, when you get to our age, hefting that thing onto a table saw and getting straight cuts can be a strain.... I can still manage a 4'x4', or more easily a 2'x4' !!

[@TheDCCGuy]

You're right, those are heavy! It was a pain just cutting the two 2’x4’ panels for the tops.

[@RichardKroboth]

Our Lehigh and Keystone Valley model RR museum benchwork is all screwed together. Has made it easier to change and add to the design.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’m glad you are using screws to build your benchwork; I find it to be much easier to work with.

[@jimmd68]

Interesting! I glue AND screw. Why yes, I am a bit of an over-builder.

[@amyreynolds3619]

I got your former C&O mountain and the Bowser Pacific locomotive too.

[@stephenpike3147]

Be careful Larry on dismissing plywood - you can get a far better frame if you use plywood, it has its place, just as softwood does. I recognise your emphasis on keeping costs down. However one of the big pitfalls in framing a layout is not accounting for the effects of humidity changes and the resulting shrinkage and twisting of timber for your location with all that brings to your layout. That was my prime consideration, humidity typically ranges 20 (winter) to 65% (summer) in my train room across the year, it’s 23% now. Unsealed softwood was an absolute no no for that environment and the build. Plywood is far more stable to those changes, the more layers per inch thickness the better. I used pocket screws, two per joint and glued at the corners of each 5’ x 2’6” frame, the 3 intermediate spars are screwn only so as pocket screws can easily adjust even though frames are butted up against the wall. If you plan properly you can predrill all your cross members to take the various sets of cables - saving a ton of time. It took me a day to rip and drill 3/4” thick material for 12 baseboards at 3” and 4” spar and frame widths respectively, using Baltic birch ply. Sure I paid a bit more however better than ripping out and redoing! Totally agree on cost of tools, it’s all relative, in my case the timber costs way more than the circular and chop saws, but having them has saved me tons as I can cut accurately and make up special pieces in ply that would be oversized in softwood e.g support bracketry. Never heard of pva glue moving, my loft used to be in 90s deg F in summer, the pine board furniture in ther over 15 years absolutely no signs of movement. (Decent)PVA joints are normally stronger than the softwood - have proven that a few times! Hope this helps, there is so much to consider when building a layout. Best regards Stephen PS This is my first layout in 35 years - I get 1/4” shrinkage overall on a 19’ run across the year, layout on legs and is free to move relative to walls, all my joints are nice and tight (layout, not mine!) as when built 4 years ago.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Most of what you mentioned requires advanced skills and tools, pocket screws are a good example. And to rip plywood to get straight and square strips requires a large table saw with a good rip fence, and I have only one friend with one of those.

[@stephenpike3147]

@@TheDCCGuyWell I was well out of my comfort zone! It was my first ever use of pocket screws - bought a $40 Milescraft pocket jig set and a special corner clamp for $70 that was all easy to use, did a couple of test runs on some scrap/ trial pieces then it was straight in - used over 1000 on that project. I mentioned pockets as it is easy to reposition and an often overlooked alternative to BB construction - plus screws out of sight but accessible from under the boards! Ditto the $300 portable table circular saw, used a 10" blade - never ripped a 5 x 2'6" sheet before (got timber yard to cut my all my 12x 5' x5' in half so easier to handle and get in my truck). It was just a case of taking my time, having support stands in right place and working safely with some help from my wife! All had to do was plane off any high spots probably .25mm at worst case after cut the lot ( -it probably wouldn't have mattered - but am a bit of a perfectionist so no trouble to correct). That high spot was produced due to my portable kit (board feed twist) - I can't always get a parallel cut on first few pieces on the 5' ripped lengths, but its no drama, easy to correct with the plane. Just don't be under confident is my experience - and its all achievable without huge expense and skill set - just a bit of perseverance and as we know its all relative! Cheers Stephen

[@timothyjohnston4083]

@@TheDCCGuy As for pocket screws, there are some inexpensive kits available (Kregg, for example) that come with the jig, bit, and depth gauge. All you need is a drill and clamp. If you're going to be building a lot of frames for your layout, such an investment might be worth your while. Most home reno stores (like Home Depot) offer cutting services. They have staff who will gladly make any straight cuts you need (often for free). You just have to be certain of what you need; so come prepared with a cut list, or, better yet, a cut plan showing what pieces you want from the sheet of plywood. Be aware, they probably cannot cut curves or angles. For my N-Trak modules, Home Depot cut a 4x8 foot sheet of ply wood into the 4x48 inch strips I needed. The only problem came when the last 2 strips needed to be cut. Their set-up didn't allow for such a small piece to be cut into 2 pieces -- so I have one piece that is 8" wide (not a problem because I had more than enough already). Having the big sheet cut into the sizes I needed at the store made transporting them far easier. Like @stephenpike3147 , I pre-drilled holes in the cross-members to allow for my track and lights/accessories power busses. I have even pre-painted the visible parts of each framing member. I figured this was easier than trying to manipulate the fully assembled 4x8 foot module. I also plan to install the Digitrax UP panels (1 per module) before assembly. Points control panels will be built separately and attached using a pair of metal "French cleat" style hangers to allow them to be removed and stored within the underside of the module for transport.

[@elleryparsons2433]

My Advise Would Be This And It’s Not Wrong Drill The Hole Load Glue Then Screws To It Should Not Be A Problem Keeping Together.

[@thomasboese3793]

If you 'never' need to move the glued item, great. However, I've never seen a model railroad benchwork plan that didn't need something moved at some point in its life.

[@elleryparsons2433]

I Never Had That problem each Modeler is Different But never the Same.

[@sailingspokojny9809]

Larry, does anyone still utilize the L-girder method?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I think that David Popp is currently working on a project layout that appears to use it. At least that’s what it looks like in their webcam feed. It is OK for a permanent layout but almost collapses when you try to move it. On the layout I built using it I had to disassemble it to move it.

[@tomt9543]

Funny story. Several years ago, I lost my many decades long fascination with model railroading. A growing interest in woodworking and home machine shop caused me to begin dismantling my layout, but when demolition reached the basic L-girder benchwork I stopped. Two thick sheets of incredibly heavy particle board were fastened to the girders, and it’s made a great workbench! I always liked L-girder, but it appears to be increasingly rare, replaced by lightweight materials including lots of foam!

[@charlierumsfeld6626]

I use glue and screws

[@IanHenderson-g9i]

Looks like US lumber is a lot better than that in the UK. We struggle to find timber that isn't banana shaped at our local suppliers.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Getting decent lumber can often be a frustrating experience. In the past I have had to search through piles of “banana” lumber looking for straight pieces that are not chewed up or full of knots. This last batch was from a new supplier (to me) The Birkholtz Group who actually have a member company in the UK, and it was pretty good except for some rough sides.

[@steveashcraft718]

We have the same problem here. I ended up buying red oak lumber.