Norfolk & Western - Hauling coal

[@ernaadelheidsommer495]

Schön dass es diese Zeit noch immer gibt das wahr noch Sound der Dampfloks aber das zeigt wie diese Männer noch arbeiten müssten

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

Coal hopper cars from this era generally were built to 2 AAR designs, one being a 50-55 ton capacity, the other being a 65-70 ton capacity. This train seems to be a combination of both. Total train weight was probably around 11,000 to 12,000 tons.

[@FS2K4Pilot]

The N&W generally computed their train weights by assuming a 50/50 mix of two and three bay cars.

[@apostleverde]

Each car weighs about 30 tons by itself (empty.) The 50, 70, 100 tons are the load capacity, which is _added_ to the light weight of the car. So a 50-tonner is around 75-80 tons total. A 70-ton car is 100 tons or more on the rails. The total weight of that train is likely somewhere north of 15,000 tons. (Otherwise known as "meh" by N&W standards....)

[@markrodriguez3688]

The sight and sound of a Norfolk & Western loaded coal train fighting the grade at Blue Ridge, Virginia, powered by a Class Y6a doubleheader, and a Class Y6b pushing on the rear of this coal train up to the crest of the grade..what more could a serious railfan ask for?

[@DS75921]

To be in the cab of the lead locomotive!!!!!!!!

[@boblackey1]

I absolutely agree. What more could a rail fan ask for. N&W home made engines were among the most powerful and best built in the world! But if you look carefully, the second engine up front is 1224 which is an "A". I think it was standard for an "A" to be in the mix as it took the coal drag solo from east of Bedford, Virginia to Norfolk, Virginia on level ground. The "A" could run 70 mph. I know this as I had a neighbor who was an engineer for N&W when I was growing up in the 1950's. So apparently after the Y6b was removed from the rear, as the train got further east, the Y6a was also removed from the lead..leaving on the A to take her to Norfolk. But it's also possible with 175 cars, it remained a double all the way. I'm not sure the A took a train that long solo.

[@markrodriguez3688]

Thanks, Bob!

[@boblackey1]

Mark Rodriguez Mark I just googled the A and they claim it could pull 200 coal cars on level ground. So this particular coal drag could have been pulled from what they said is Crewe, Virginia to Norfolk solo. Apparently it was from Crewe to Norfolk, on level ground, where the A was alone. As I'm sure you know, the Y6 was more powerful at lower speed but it couldn't run 70 mph. The class J 611 is being restored in Spencer, North Carolina now. Said it will be back on the tracks in the spring or summer of this year. N&W built it for passenger trains and they claim it could run about 120! But not with me on board:-)

[@natejenkins8645]

The A's also pulled 200 coal cars between Portsmouth and Columbus. Truly great locomotives, definitely on my top 11 list of greatest steam locomotives.

[@herronrailvideo1169]

@Southland27 . This clip is from Pocahontas Glory Volume 4 by Herron Rail Video. It is available on DVD. Yes, the location still exists but does not see Westbound coal trains any longer as those go over former Virginian Ry trackage with lower grades. This is the famous Blue Ridge Grade east of Roanoke, VA. Some trains do still run here but not with huge loads as shown in this video. -Jim Herron, Herron Rail Video

[@michaelmontgomerymountainm2635]

Completely savage even till this day. 3 engines pulling around 12,000 tons with 175 coal cars. Super impressive.

[@pscully1969]

I'll always love the ole' steam giants! So glad O. Winston Lake photo documented this nostalgic era.

[@brucefetter]

Jerry Carson's photos from 1958, found on the cover of Trains of America and elsewhere, are taken from this exact spot, at Blue Ridge Hill, VA. What a time!

[@jhonsiders6077]

3:01 A new 1950s B model Mack pulling a flat bed trailer .

[@gunnyu.s.m.c8606]

Jhon Siders I spotted that Mack and thought the same thing 😉

[@robertmohler9219]

Is there still enough coal along the N&W to last 120 years or more?

[@1940limited]

I love that. The focus wasn't good enough to ID the cars but the Mack stood out. You hd to know what you were doing to drive one of those, too.

[@gm16v149]

Jhon Siders~Yeah I saw that Mack as well. It would have had a twin stick Quadruplex transmission, I wonder how the auto box guys today would handle that lol.

[@1940limited]

@@gm16v149 As of 2020 Mack is offering automatic transmissions only! Imagine that.

[@mandywithell]

Whistles were used to communicate basic info such as when the lead loco engineer was about to start, had reached the summit etc. The banking locos job was to push and push HARD. Most important thing was to prevent the train stalling and even more importantly to keep the couplings closed up. If this was not done a snatch could occur which might break a coupling or even pull a coupling out of a wagons headstock.

[@iMadeAPromise42]

Comment #700. Steam locomotives are of custom design, carefully engineered for very specific assignments and terrain. There's no use comparing UP locomotives to N&W locomotives when the two railroads served completely different geography than one another. It makes more sense to compare the A to the H-8 because they served similar geography.

[@DeCasoU1]

The Y6/a/b were probably the best heavy freight articulated in the US. The drop in hp output as speed increased could have been dealt with by a type Y6c with a three cylinder low pressure unit. This would have enabled better steam flow through proportionally larger valves. Hammer blow would also have been much reduced. Since 5500hp can be maintained from 54 sq ft of grate, the boiler, given a suitable exhaust system (also increasing hp), would have had no trouble steaming against demand.

[@iMadeAPromise42]

I'm curious, on which set of drivers would this hypothetical third (technically fifth) cylinder be most practical? Such an appliance would probably add weight, which could cause an imbalance in weight and/or horsepower distribution.

[@Markus-r2b3w]

Imagine what a 3 (6) cylinder y6c would've been capable of... Especially with kylchap blastpipes and some other chapelon-like Features. Would've been an absolute TE-monster!

[@infaredxkingz8786]

​@@Markus-r2b3w I'm sorry,a y6 what?

[@rwjenkins]

Amazing video. I really loved hearing the contrast in the exhausts between the Y6 (compound) and the A (simple articulated) as the double-headed giants pass below the camera. Classic stuff there!

[@09JDCTrainMan]

Steam locomotives rock, they are not junk!

[@cornholio329]

Agreed

[@robertspencer703]

They couldn't pulled modern hoppers

[@wtf-hc3tp]

Robert Spencer Oh really? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJOloaVor7-Ee6s

[@anasiacameronelijahedcpndc4324]

Rebuilt replicas and next member of steam locomotives from scratch! And some might have different looks, and higher speeds. And they will haul fast freights and heavy passenger trains!

[@Jemalacane0]

@@wtf-hc3tp 21 cars being helped by an ES44AC. Check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5LHopqCd86CZpI

[@nigelmitchell351]

This Pocahontas stuff has to be some of the very best and most impressive 1950s American steam footage ever shot. It's certainly what got me interested in US steam. Imagine the cacophony at the lineside! Cheers from UK.

[@AussiePom]

No not really for it was an everyday happening in those days. Steam enthusiasts loved it but for the majority of people they were used to seeing steam locomotives working really hard and didn't take any notice of it. Its only when it happens today that it draws huge crowds because it's so rare to see steam working really hard these days. Don't forget in those days hardly anyone had a movie camera as still cameras were the normal way to take photos. Even those who did have a movie camera found colour film expensive and clips were short as you only got two minutes per roll of film. There was no deleting of under or over exposed shots and the camera didn't compensate for too little or too much light. In those days movie photographers were real masters of their art being in the right spot at the right time with the sun at the right angle to get a perfect shot of a moving train.

[@nigelmitchell351]

@@AussiePom True. I am old enough to remember steam in GB, as a boy my last run behind BR steam was on the Great Central main line from Rugby to Leicester. I should add that this Norfolk and Western footage, IMO, is only equaled by the footage of the 60 class Garretts double headed hauling coal up Fassifern bank. Ps, my dad was a ten pound Pom.

[@boblackey1]

The Y6b WAS the most powerful locomotive at low speed pulling/pushing in the mountains and had a TE of a whopping 166,000 pounds & over 6,000 horsepower at the drawbar. For faster trains the N&W used their "A" class engines which could pull a 150 car coal train at 70 mph on level ground unassisted! The finest steam locomotive in the world was N&W's "J" series which was used for passenger trains & could reach over 110 mph speeds on straight level track. N&W made the best steam engines in Roanoke.

[@swdw973]

That was some heavy duty chuffing in the beginning. You can tell they were hauling a big load uphill.

[@file1man]

Watching steam engines is special. only saw a 614 C&O around year 2000 run an excursion in NJ. My dad grew up in a small coal town in PA. Very many families had people that died in railroad accidents. Relatives, 3 men, all with families, died either in the repair yards or switching yards. One died, crushed by a loco wheel he was working on. One died in a switching yard, run over when the train backed up, not realizing he was on the tracks. Railroad jobs around those steam engines meant long hours, extremely dangerous conditions, many accident & injuries. Few people in 2019 would work in such dangerous, hard job if they had other choices.

[@1940limited]

I harbor no bad feelings or resentment for those times.

[@lucasquintanilla1673]

No, certainly most would not. That being said, there are probably a few who would. They would likely be rare, but I would think that they would not be totally absent. On a sidenote, what are your favorite steam and diesel engines?

[@TheMasterClue]

Ok, I misread the curves. Sorry, at 30 mph, the dyno chart in the NWHS archives shows 75,000 lbs @30mph, 175,000 lbs starting and 160,000 at 10 mph. My point is this; unlike the designer locomotives other railroads bought (big boy, allegheny) the Y6b actually was designed for the terrain and loads that it would encounter. The Big Boy and Allegheny both suffered from being high speed locomotives working at slow freight speeds.

[@1940limited]

It's a trajedy we scrapped so many of these beautiful and fascinating machines.

[@joshuaposey9594]

g bridgman A travesty? God help the poor people who have asthma in proximity to that. Forget the environment, the drivers of those things will get black lung. I'm as much a fan or early steam trains as anyone else and I love he look and sound and design of early coal powered trains. But that image of two engines turning a beautiful countryside black is exactly why we need cleaner power sources. This isn't about global warming, imagine having to live next to that. Imagine having to breathe that air after the trains are long gone. You may as well smoke a pack a day while you are at it, and the cigarettes might even be less toxic.

[@1940limited]

What you say may have some merit but I'd be more than glad to live in their midst and take my chances. It's difficult for me to agree with anyone who thinks the world is a better place today. This is heavy industry which meant good jobs, not minimum wage stuff at McDonald's or Wal-Mart.

[@FS2K4Pilot]

Joshua Posey I would happily deal with having to live next to those.

[@joshuaposey9594]

+FS2K4Pilot That's fine. Enjoy lung cancer.

[@1940limited]

You don't know that for fact. Many a person worked with steam locomotives all their lives and lived long and healthy. It's all in the luck of the draw.

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

TheMasterClue: The videos of the Big Boy only show a small portion of its typical operation. Seems like rail photographers of the late steam era had a fondness of capturing steam going up grades, not their entire operating district. Just like in this video! There were plenty of locations where the Big Boy operated were they moved general merchandise trains along at 50- 60 mph, exactly as designed.

[@196Stefan2]

Thank you for this video! O. Winston Link has preserved this scenery at the N&W in outstanding b/w photographs in "steam, steel and stars".

[@TheMasterClue]

The Norfolk and Western never actually updated the official TE figures of the Y6b. We do know that the starting TE after the 1952 improvements was found to be around 175,000 lbs, and a sustained effort of around 160,000 at 30 mph. That is where she was designed to run. All the other steam giants made their highest TE and HP at 50-60 mph. Speeds that freight almost never approaches. The improvement in the Y6 class came from a simplexing valve allowing them to run at simple mode at slower speeds.

[@alexreay6520]

Steam locomotives are poetry in motion

[@Greatdome99]

N&W didn't just "build" them--they designed them--including configuration, performance and stress calculations, blueprints and allowable build tolerances. They cast and forged and machined most of their own parts, so from "soup to nuts" N&W's Roanoke shops was a true manufacturing center. Consider this: Y6bs had ~26,000 pounds of lead added over the front engine to get more tractive effort out it (some diesels use concrete today).

[@markantony3875]

CSX just used thick steel to get the AC4400s and ES44AC up in weight.

[@carl23401]

That is EXCELLENT footage, quality and content. WOW!

[@1940limited]

It's impossible to imagine what a spectacle event this must have been to watch while standing trackside. How did they haul so many loads without breaking couplers? Amazing!

[@adrianspeeder]

Any of the 70/80/90mac and GE trash makes as much tractive effort today with very similar coupler design. They did break then, and they do break now.

[@robertmohler9131]

It's a pity there isn't enough coal along the N&W to make steam last forever!

[@animal16365]

I love the sound those engines are making pulling that grade

[@FS2K4Pilot]

animal16365 It does sound great...but if you compare it to the wheel revolutions, it isn't the original sound of those engines. That being said, who cares? It sounds spectacular!

[@ronniescott5179]

Very good clip showing the ultimate design of the Mallet Articulate steam locomotive. I bet Messeiur Mallet of France had no idea his original small dainty Locomotive would grow to such a size and power very impressive.

[@FS2K4Pilot]

Anatole Mallet was actually Swiss, despite what “Last of the Giants” says.

[@WideWorldofTrains]

Awesome steam power

[@williambryant5946]

What a beautiful site. I just wish I could step back in time and see all the glory days of steam with my own eyes and feel the locomotives rumbling by. Great short clip of a great scene! 👍

[@sherrcon]

never seen that before with three locos...thank you...that was awesome!!

[@ksman38]

Class A 2-6-6-4's were longer and had a bigger boiler because they were "simple" engines, they used high pressure steam in all 4 cylinders. The Y classes were "compound" engines and could be smaller because they only had to feed the 2 rear high pressure cylinders-- the front 2 used the lower pressure steam exhausted by the high pressure cylinders before turning it up the stack. Look closely and notice the much larger diameter of the front cylinders to get similar effort from the low pressure.

[@drglinski]

I've read that the Y6bs had more tractive HP than the big boy (and they were built by N&Ws own shops). I like the aux. tenders too!

[@infaredxkingz8786]

Dude, just because they have bigger front cylinders doesn't mean that they have more strength inside

[@SteamerSA]

These engines were the real monsters of the steam age! Awesome!

[@VirginianSpencer]

It's a Y6b leading an 'A', with another Y6b pusher. Location is Blue Ridge. The western roads were concerned with speed, N&W designed their engines for their railroad. Pound for pound they built the best in steam. The C&O Allegheny and Virginian Blue Ridge 2-6-6-6s were misapplied until VGN restricted theirs to the flatter Eastern portion. Lima wanted to build the most horsepower, and they did. At over 1,000,000 on the rails the Y6b outpulled it, and the 'A' outran it.

[@engineerskalinera]

excelent display of the awesome power of steam locomotives

[@Walschaerts90]

There are a lot more factors to compare when looking at steam locomotives than overall size, weight, wheel arrangement, tractive effort, and horsepower. The operating characteristics must also be considered. In overall terms the Norfolk and Western did it best. They continued to build and operate steam long after whistles were silenced on other roads. They didn't have the largest or most powerful locomotives. They had good locomotives for THEIR operation.

[@1940limited]

What a fascinating time to be alive. All you had to do was stand trackside for a spectacular event better than any railfan trip could ever be.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Excellent! I love how the helpers are white from the copious use of sand.

[@trains3501]

The "Joy of Steam", today's children although they may see a steam locomotive they will never see steam locomotives working like this, brings back so many memories time spent with my Dad who was a great lover of locomotives

[@davidrudolph2825]

Very nice vintage video! Enjoyed watching! Steam is powerful.

[@sharkheadism]

The crews were experienced enough that they little or no direct communication was necessary. Most coal trains are always the same length, so pusher crews knew when to push hard and when to stop and cut off. The only time whistle signals were probably used was for an unusual circumstance.

[@ElGatoLoco698]

sharkheadism Shut the fuck up you know it all piece of troll trash.

[@crushed1126]

@@ElGatoLoco698 the cat lady has a foul mouth

[@blackthorne57]

Thanks for posting a great clip. I was fortunate to be able to go to China to see heavy coal trains with three large locos hard at work at the turn of the 20th/21st Centuary. It is good these videos exist to remind us of what is now history.

[@Willysmb44]

I have ridden behind 1218 when she was still in steam for NS, but even then it's impossible for me to imagine down to the tracks seeing sights like this everyday...

[@markantony3875]

Your lungs thank you for not seeing it. 🤣

[@santaiaja9871]

One of my beautiful childhood memories.., I can't forget it

[@bluecomet9072]

Look at those two Huge machines trudge up that mountain with hundreds of thousands of pounds of coal behind them, it reminds me of a Horse but made of Rot iron and steel and I always say one thing when I hear it’s whistle I always say “ A whistle more powerful then a thousand wolves howling into the moonlit sky”

[@madcityrails4467]

EMD’s powering up a hill in notch 8 is cool but this amazing! Unfortunately steam was retired long before I was born.

[@1940limited]

This happened when I was about 7 years old. I'm sorry I missed it. i wish my father had taken us kids to VA to see it. We lived in NJ at the time. Would have been a nice thing to do in the summer of 1957 as a family vacation.

[@christopherdibble5872]

Still get a tear in my eye when I hear an old train in the night.

[@dantweedy2331]

Awesome!!!!!! Part of the great, grand, glorious history of this country!!! Back in the day that nothing was impossible and Americans did whatever it took for progress! Awesome machines in an awesome time in this great land! Gods country!

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

TheMasterClue, The Allegheny wasn't used just for coal drag operations. Slow mine runs were usually made with the C&O 2-8-8-2 H7 locomotive. The H8 Allegheny was only used on the main to speed up operations. The Allegheny was used mostly on main line general merchandise operations, at a speed it was designed for. Too many people take a look a one photograph of a Allegheny pulling coal, and assume that was all it was used for.

[@09JDCTrainMan]

The As and the Y6s are great in their own way, The Y class is better for low speed drags, and the A class is better for high speed runs and yet can still manage to pull a 13,000 ton train at 42 mph on a level grade. Definitely unique steamers that I love! Also hard pullers, especially the Y6.

[@animal16365]

175 cars. 70 tons per car. 12250 ton train

[@nurfaikhamhaiqal2528]

animal16365 it just a load, not a total gross weight, nearly freaking 175000 ton weight, not include 3 type y6 pulling all of them, damn

[@mikemontgomery5649]

Compared to desiel how many desiel engines would it take?

[@wtf-hc3tp]

Mike Montgomery Probably 3-4. Depends what diesel.

[@j.christopherlindsey8933]

@@nurfaikhamhaiqal2528 Actually, there are two different types of locomotives shown here: on the point is a Y class, trailing is an A and pushing is another Y. That doesn't detract from the amount of power used here; however, once out of the mountains and on more level grade, that A most likely took the train all the way to coast by itself. These were purpose built, powerful locomotives.

[@j.christopherlindsey8933]

@@mikemontgomery5649 As stated by Eagle Eye, probably three to four, but it's hard to say since trains in the US have gotten longer and heavier. Where I live in Virginia I've seen mixed freights with three on the point and two DPUs (mixed freight is generally lighter than bulk.) Last coal train I saw through here (rare) had seven powered locomotives total and was at a crawl... didn't count the cars but I thought it was never gonna end.

[@boblackey1]

@AndyRDG1175 Looks like it to me too. Probably between Roanoke and Bedford. I remember they would take the pusher engine off after that reached the top of the grade and it would return to Roanoke. When N&W 1218, a class A and a bit smaller than the Y6b, was running steam excursions, the press book that passed out on the trip said it could pull a 150 car coal train on level ground unassisted at 70mph.

[@annajeannettedixon2453]

Yes the finest modern steam locomotives ever built

[@markantony3875]

The were the finest for the N&W's operating conditions. They were not the finest for other railroads operating conditions.

[@annajeannettedixon2453]

this what 17,500 ton looks like with steam power just 2 y6a and Y6b 2-8-8-4s pushing, and just a beautiful site to see steam hard at work no wonder the Norfork and western just loved there steam power

[@markantony3875]

Train only weighed 12,000 tons. Cars in that era could not carry as much as modern cars. The Class Y was a 2-8-8-2, not the much larger 2-8-8-4.

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

Another thing, the Allegheny and Big Boy were not always working at slow speeds. In the Allegheny's case, they were only working hard for the climb up the Allegheny Front. On more level terrain, they were often recorded hustling a train along at 40-50 mph, right in their power curve as designed. It is a myth that the C&O misused the Allegheny.

[@Pattyboytheking]

I couldn’t imagine seeing this in person!!

[@jacksalvin364]

Norfolk and Western Y and A class locomotives works hard upgrade towards the summit.

[@troy12n]

Yes, trains still run here today, it's on the Blue Ridge district of the Norfolk Southern Virginia Division between Roanoke, VA and Lynchburg, VA

[@boblackey1]

That is very cool. I've seen the surviving "J" no: 611 at the Transportation Museum in Roanoke, Virginia in the last six month! Next to it is class "A" 1218. There is a Y6b at a museum in St. Louis, Mo I think. The "J" 611 was running steam excursion trains from 1982 to 1994. It was running fine when they parked it again in 1994 but I understand it was ready for an overhaul when it was parked.

[@jrewing5886]

I have an all brass O scale of the 1218. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I love this locomotive. It is pure magic watching it do exactly what it was intended to do. The power of this locomotive cannot be overstated. Even by itself, it's ability to haul significantly longer consist was nothing short of amazing. Those double drivers working real hard to pull extremely heavy loads all around Virginia. No other locomotive, in any era of time, is as impressive as the 1218. Smoke those drivers🚂

[@chrisharmon]

Thanks for a great clip. The 1218 will probably never run again but we could hope for a resurection of the Y6b

[@markantony3875]

Unless you intend to build one from scratch, that will be impossible. All the Y6b were scrapped.

[@PrimeMoverVideos]

Nothing and I mean nothing beats big steam working hard,,,,great stuff.

[@b3j8]

In response to all the replies below regarding the unhealthy steam era, actually, it was. At least at times. My Mother grew up not far from a locomotive servicing facility and yard in Lima Ohio. She loved trains, and especially loved their whistles at night. But, on a stiflingly hot summer evening, no AC of course, the smoke would lay heavy like a fog around the neighborhood. Her Mother cursed many a steamer that passed by after she had just finished hanging out clean clothes on the line also.

[@robertmohler9219]

I really love coal burning steam locos, enough to ask is there enough coal along the N&W to last 120 years? And if so, how much of the coal reserves are in the Pocahontas region?

[@1940limited]

@@robertmohler9219 I've been told we have 250 years worth of coal in the USA, but not sure exactly where it all is.

[@markantony3875]

@@1940limited Most of the easy to mine coal has been mined. What is left is deeper down. While technically there is that much coal left, it is increasingly expensive and harder to mine. Coal is dead anyway from environmental issues.

[@vic5828]

Love the sight of steam locomotives. I guess it is because of my age. Their whistles going through a cut in the rocks is such a beautiful sound. I can' remember the last time I saw a steam freight. Must have been at fifty or more years ago. Anyone know what year this video was taken?

[@1940limited]

1957.

[@herronrailvideo1169]

This is from "Pocahontas Glory Vol. 4" by Herron Rail Video and is available on DVD.

[@Walschaerts90]

The UP 4000 series was designed to work with the 3900 class Challengers. The 4000 would handle the train up the grades and surrender the train to a Challenger for a ride across the flats. This was the original plan for the two engines. If one designed/bought a locomotive for working up grades one would assume that said locomotive would've been able to produce its maximum horsepower at a lower speed, acceptable in mountain territory. At 25 mph a UP 4000 and a N&W Y6b produce the same horsepower.

[@tedmaas3588]

Amazing power those steam loco's had..

[@andydiaz3799]

Steam freight trains are the best trains on the N&W

[@boblackey1]

The ULTIMATE steam engine ever built for power, grace & speed is the "J" class steam engine built by N&W at Roanoke between 1941 & 1950. These sleek streamlined engines employed the "last word" on steam technology & pulled the "crack" N&W passenger trains, sometime at speeds of over 100 mph. In trails, 110 was reach but the actual top speed is unknown as they were afraid to go faster. The surviving "J" is also in Roanoke. The finest steam engine in the world!

[@michaelnaisbitt1639]

The Y6a and b,s were incredible machines scrapped way before their time A sad loss

[@Walschaerts90]

The N&W designed and built a locomotive for their operating characteristics. They didn't try to show anyone up. They didn't try to have the largest or the most powerful locomotive on rails. They took a good design (an old design) and refined it until the end of steam. The Y6 weighed only 611,530 pounds, being compound it was a more economical locomotive, and it hit its peak drawbar horsepower of 5,600 at 25 mph. All this in a locomotive that could easily fit on a 115 foot turntable.

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

Assuming the 175,000 lbs max pull is correct (which I along with many rail historians doubt) the Y6b would only have a 3.1 adhesion factor. With steam, anything below 4 is considered unstable and slippery. Not too good if the intent is to use the locomotive for lugging tonnage on mountain grades with wet or frosted rail, is it?

[@JollyRodders]

@jschmid It was shot by Harry Dodge and Bob Flack in 1956. I think one had the camera and the other an audio tape recorder. You can see the whole video on the DVD "Pocahontas Glory - Volume 4" I would check out "Pillars of smoke in the Sky" too.

[@1940limited]

I just bought that DVD.

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

@VirginianSpencer Agree that Class A's were great engines, but pound for pound the B&O EM-1 was more impressive. Their engine weight was only 50,000 lbs more than the Class A, but the EM-1 had 45% more firebox area, higher steam production at high speed, and higher adhesion than the Class A. Baldwin was able to produce an engine with the same total firebox area as Lima's fabled Allegheny, at 100,000 lbs less engine weight.

[@joemalone6923]

The EM-1's had a little more tractive effort that the N&W Class A's

[@joemalone6923]

The EM-1's had a little more tractive effort that the Class A's did too

[@1940limited]

Sometimes pushers operated tender first. I've seen N&W archival footage of it.

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

Agree with you on this. I was just stating if someone thinks the C&O misused the Alleghenies just because they were running slow for a few miles upgrade, then the N&W would be guilty of the same. But they weren't, and neither was the C&O. Once the H8s crested Allegheny Mountain, they brought the train up to track speed, being used what they were designed for.

[@threehead99]

Wrong moron. The Allegheny and Blue Ridges were designed for fast freight. Using them to slog uphill unassisted and THEN haul the same train at track speed reduced their performance. If used for their intended purpose (equivalent to a NKP Berkshire), they would have excelled. But they were NOT a general purpose engine like a Big Boy or Challenger. What you're saying is design a 0-6-0 for mountain service, perform below expectations, and then be impressed with it because it can do a job in a yard switching cars. They were not designed to haul the loads over the mountains, and because of that, they earned a reputation as a failure of an engine.

[@tprdfh51]

That is a lot of tractive effort to handle those loads up the hill man!

[@stevematda976]

FWIW...this is two different trains. Check out the fifth hopper in the first shots...clearly has the N&W logo higher up on the hopper side. Plus as the shot pans back to the helper engine, this is a solid block of N&W hoppers. On the downhill run, the fifth hopper is clearly no longer high lettered...and there's a block of Clinchfield hoppers on the end now. How did they get there? Probably they were loaded at Moss #1 (Fremont Branch) on the Clinchfield, shipped south to Boody on the Clinchfield (just East of St. Paul) interchanged with the N&W and shipped up to Bluefield on the Clinch Valley District.

[@heavydutyrepair64]

These modern day diesel locomotives put out a lot of tractive effort for there size and weight

[@johanbrand8601]

Absolutely amazing. Lovely footage.

[@nigelterry9299]

Lovely machines. Any chance of overhauling the surviving N&W Mallet?

[@cavemanballistics6338]

Looking at the way those fireman were over stoking, I think they burned more coal than they hauled over the hill!😂

[@trainfan844]

At the St.Louis MO Museum Of Transport, I remember the N&W Locomotive on display there wasnt a Y6B, It was a Y6A

[@itmcbhpbgf.6374]

a Y6b was in a Roanoke scrapyard, but the scrapyard was owned by a British firm who didn't care too much for big American steam engines, so that's why the last N&W Y6b was scrapped, along with another N&W A class.

[@infaredxkingz8786]

Damn, the British was being more idiotic at the time

[@Walschaerts90]

I wouldn't say that the N&W misused their simple articulateds. Just because you're hauling a coal train doesn't mean you have to be moving at "drag" speeds. Coal trains were dispatched out of Roanoke heading East usually with a Class Y as a head-end helper and a Class A as the road engine. After an assist over the Blue Ridge and topping the mountain. The A would give the hoppers a fast ride to the coast. Leaving the Y behind where they belonged in the mountains.

[@CarolinaCycloneJames]

I had a DVD with this Locomotive but it was from the Vanishing Age of Steam and had narration

[@catlover2368]

03:00 nice old semi on the road on the right

[@jhonsiders6077]

That's a B model Mack

[@gm16v149]

I’d like to know what year this was. It would be unusual to have sound on some of the earlier videos.

[@irfanqadir3840]

The steam beauties are really champions of hauling unbelievable load which is their proud love to watch such a great fabulous marvellous superb nice video

[@MagictrainsOrg]

Thats great, man ! I love it.

[@garymathews4042]

how do you coordinate 3 big steam locos to make a smooth run up a hill ? I don't like the idea of a Aloghany pushing on a caboose,it weren't made to withstand that power

[@beeble2003]

The railroad weren't idiots -- they surely built their cabooses strong enough for the work they had to do. Coordination was by whistle signals.

[@sonstwer01]

Brilliant Video!!!!! The dimension is a bit different in comparison to traction here in Germany.

[@nigelmitchell351]

The opening shots along with the Australian Garratts on Fassifern bank have to be the most awsome footage of steam haulage on the tube. Please advise if you know differently!

[@xxxIronHeadxxx]

So epic I spilled my everclear on my pajamas!!

[@drrgperrin]

Great filming! What year was it made? From the motorcars I saw, I would guess sometime in the early to mid-1950s.

[@09JDCTrainMan]

I think it was around 1957.

[@theretrocrowe9389]

1967. I'm pretty sure this was also the longest steam freight train ever, and the longest in the world at the time

[@jhonsiders6077]

1950s B model Mack

[@beeble2003]

@@theretrocrowe9389 Was that a typo for 1957? It looks like the N&W took its last steam locomotive out of service in 1961, so this can't be 1967.

[@BLACKVIKNGS88]

The Illinois Railway Museum, in Union Illinois. Has a Norfolk and Western Y3a, steam Locomotive

[@BNSFGuy4723]

These engines were the best at what they did, so much so that the only reason N&W quit steam was that diesels were cheaper to maintain, otherwise why would a coal railroad stop its coal driven steam operations?

[@DeCasoU1]

+lukebccb If only the shareholders really understood the issues. There was an analysis report produced that quite simply showed that modern traction cost the American railroads dearly. You can find it if you look hard enough. It didn't make for popular reading for those who made the decisions. Hence it got pretty well buried.

[@DeCasoU1]

+lukebccb The gentleman who amassed the statistics and authored the paper was an American, one H. F. Brown. It was presented to the Institution of Mechanical Engineers in 1961 He wanted to present it to the ASME however the usual and normal occurred and he was prevented from doing so. Money talks it can also prevent people from talking. So, a further one for you. How many American diesel locomotives can produce 40 hp per ton of locomotive weight? And how many could in the 1940s? I dangled a little hook expecting a person to bite. And you did. Unfortunately you revealed yourself as intemperate and not particularly well informed. Well designed steam locomotives do not require the amount of maintenance that you might imagine. L. D. Porta produced some very interesting data, You should be able to run for 248,500 miles (he bases his figures on 400,000km) without any broken stays or tubeplate leaks. No steam pipe joints should experience leakage either and no tubes should have needed replacement providing that the original expansion was correct. And so on, piston ring life is covered, piston rod wear, piston ring wear, details of the water being used is given etc. etc. But you need to find the design of locomotive that achieved this to put it all in context. You need the context. An experiment for you. Obtain the use of an instantaneous exhaust gas analyser. Carry out a series of tests on the exhaust emitted from i.c. traction and coal fired steam traction. Science experiment, get your methodology right. Then look at the results. And remember that the steam locomotive will not be benefiting from GPCS. Are we talking FGS, SGS or TGS here it makes a difference but either way your thermal efficiency is out. And fuel cost has just as much, if not more, bearing on overall economic viability as thermal efficiency. There are other factors. Have a look at how running costs increase with the age of the traction unit, SAR produced some good figures for this. And so to a point that might also be important (I know that it is). You don't need a fireman on a steam locomotive, it is nice to have one since two heads are better than one, but you don't need one. The work was done by Westinghouse, and taking that work a stage further you could multiple unit them too though based on the 40 hp per ton rule (some 14,000hp for an adequately designed American style articulated) would you need to? In the final analysis when traction costs are fully analysed there appears to be little if anything to choose between any of the options available.

[@457trains2]

An excellent and well-informed response. And thank you for some details of that paper that was curiously denied an airing. I knew of its existence but couldn't track it down. Now I have a name to work to, I can move forward with finding it.

[@pvtimberfaller]

Blacksand459, you are correct, not to mention clueless about basic physics, at best a steam locomotive is 5% efficient. They did well in their day but economics required their replacement with an efficient & low maintenance machine. An electric railroad with a coal fired power plant would have made more sense, even in 1900. I wish people would read a book & learn facts before spewing out nonsense they no little or nothing about don't you?

[@Jemalacane0]

Diesels have every bit that much power. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYTMg4CPqrhmptU kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZWmaaSugbJlgJo

[@jacquesblaque7728]

So much for the nostalgic attraction of steam-powered railways. Just ignore black-lung (above- & below-ground) and abysmal thermal efficiency of low-pressure recips and steam-cycle. Not to mention much lower availability than diesels. Even N&W dropped them once diesel GPs were released.

[@carlnapp8673]

What boilers, even at the end of the ramp the pop valves are still blowing slightly! It must have been in the fifties I guess, looking at the semi that drives past. Ever so ta DepotCat!

[@jhonsiders6077]

That's the stoker motors exhaust you see by the cab those units used every bit of steam they produced . That semi is a 1950s B model Mack I restored one :)

[@UnIonPacCheyenne]

The Y6b only had high starting TE for limited speeds. Once in compound mode above 5mph, the Y only had 126,000 lbs TE. The Y's TE fell quickly as speed increased due to their small boiler's inability to produce enough steam. They were good low speed pullers, but hardly the most powerful steam engines. The Allegheny and Yellowstone Class locomotives were much more powerful above 20 mph.