Forgotten Waters Review - with Tom Vasel

[@DigitalMase]

You can tell Tom is going to like it when he tries to explain the whole game during the overview. ☺️

[@williamgarcia-medina9989]

Mason Zedaker lol

[@kitelanford]

Honestly some players like the system, but felt like something’s missing

[@phillosmaster393]

For people still on the fence this game has an official solo and two player rule set now and both i think play well. I was surprised that the solo game felt really good. The game is better with other people but solo still felt like a good way to experience the story. Also everything is voiced now in the app which is awesome.

[@joerobertson7709]

Are the solo and twi player rules including in the game box or do you you need to find them online?

[@phillosmaster393]

@ the variant rules are in the app.

[@phillosmaster393]

the same app you need to play the game.

[@sonofabippi]

There have been many dicetower reviews, and all of them pretty good --- but this one is where 20+ years of boardgaming really pays-off. The knowledge of comparisons really was/is amazing.

[@Isnogood12]

As someone who got their hands on this game and has finished two missions (lost one in the finale, so painful!) and all I can say is: GET THIS GAME. It's amazing. It's Monkey Island, the Board Game. The narrator and other VA is amazing, the stories are amazing, the replayability is amazing. THE APP WORKS FLAWLESSLY! Everything is amazing! AND... they've left room for more stories! They can release DLC scenarios with no physical components with zero fuss, and with this level of quality, I'll happily pay for more!

[@justingibbons8010]

Tom: "A lot of people don't like apps... but at this point, that ship has sailed..." Me: OH SNAP *stands in applause* PUN!

[@VikingKittens]

Excellent review and well done Plaid Hat! My first game was Mice and Mystics and this looks to be right up my alley. Thank You!

[@chopdog6563]

Got to play this for the first time a week and a half ago. Yeah. This game is awesome. My group played the first scenario in one sitting straight through. We had a great time. Handles high player counts really well.

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

Yay, I’m happy for Colby, and Mr. Bistro and the whole crew over at Plaid Hat.

[@Frantzypantz]

Go J. Arthur Ellis :D

[@RedDragonM1]

I'm looking forward to playing it....when I can leave my place again to do stuff.....

[@chaffgrenade_x3]

@@maxwellschultz4784 you think people are pretending to play online? also, where do you live? Social distancing guidelines vary drastically depending where you are.

[@notsaved]

Yet another missed chance for Tom to wear a plaid hat

[@danielwoltanski1413]

I was really excited when I first heard about this game, and after hearing Tom's thoughts on it, it's going on my Must Buy list!

[@npckse8508]

Wow! I am excited to try it already, but stoked that you played it and loved it. Will be curious to see a comparison between this and Sleeping Gods.

[@arcubal]

The short and simple is that, given Ryan Laukat's love for crunchy euro-mechanics, Sleeping Gods is more "game-technical" while Forgotten Waters is more "fast and loose pirate fun". Having said that though, you can't go wrong: both companies (Plaid Hat Games and Red Raven Games) though have an excellent pedigree in crafting story-driven games.

[@evansj18]

I knew nothing of this but preordered right away. Looks great to play while stuck at home with the fam. I'll pick up Sleeping Gods later this year (I think it was a bit delayed anyway) once things settle down and I can see my regular game groups again.

[@ChrisRisingOfficial]

Cheers for these videos guys. Gets me through these long days! This looks awesomeeee

[@arcubal]

I admit to pre-ordering it after catching a glimpse on MvM but, Tom, thanks sooooooo much for showing the breadth of *Forgotten Waters* I'm already a sucker for pirate themes, exploration, and story-heavy gameplay, throw in Plaid Hat's Crossroads and Story Book systems...oh my! I was also thinking of *Near and Far* and *SeaFall* (which I did really enjoy) and am currently getting my pirate fix with *Skull Tales: Full Sail* but, already, I cannot wait until this game lands on my doorstep. Heck, it's even worth the insane shipping to get it to Switzerland! Looks like Plaid Hat chose an excellent flagship (pun intended) to sail away from the troubled waters of Asmodee.

[@successfulgeek]

I am so excited and happy I pre-ordered this. I was nervous about it at first, but then I looked how many Plaid Hat games I have enjoyed and I knew they had to hit it out of the park with this one since it is their first one since going independent!

[@michaelhall8586]

Thanks for this. I saw this at the shops today and I was curious

[@JesseDBlack]

The pre-order for U.S. residents is pretty good (free shipping, a 20 % discount, a cool looking card and component holder). Additionally, I've listened to a whole story telling crossroad sample for the game, and the voice acting is very, very good! There's over 20 voice actors for the app, which is absolutely incredible.

[@arcubal]

Heck, I even coughed up the $55 shipping to send it to non-EU Europe and it's worth it. This is one ambitious game concept but it hits all the right buttons with me.

[@Muhd_Akmal]

Seems to be a must buy game if you love storytelling. I'm sold!

[@hahnarama]

if you order from PlaidHat by 4/10/20 you get 20% of as well as free shipping in the Lower 48

[@billybobbills]

Received my copy today. I hope to get it to the table tomorrow

[@mrbastos]

Was already interested in this, then ProZD was announced as a VA for the app and now a flowing review. I'm stoked.

[@arcubal]

ProZD? VA?

[@mrbastos]

@@arcubal ProZD is a KZbinr, VA = Voice Actor.

[@peteshirey9816]

Glad I pre-ordered this one! Can't wait to get it!

[@DampeS8N]

COVID tip for this game, or any other, really. Use screen-sharing in your video conferencing app of choice to serve the app's output to a whole group. Especially games like this can work really well this way. Though moving pieces around becomes a bit fiddly. You can just do initiative turns like an RPG and go around the table asking each person where they are moving things. The timer is an issue, potentially.

[@meganspence6270]

Thanks for the ideas!

[@farrellseymore8751]

Hello Tom, I was just wondering what your thoughts on the game are now with respect to replayabiity (now that you have had it for a while)?

[@danielkeim8558]

Really happy to hear this one is good! Definitely will be checking it out because I love me some Plaid Hat

[@davidhealey2483]

a co-op pirate themed game sign me up

[@chrismusix5669]

Forgotten Waters tests positive for Fun!

[@emmanuelrodriguez1693]

Is this comparable to Sleeping Gods? If so, how do they compare? I've played a lot of games long and short and I'm looking to get into story telling/coop games which would be a better entry?

[@Sven2andahalf]

Curious how this compares to Arabain Nights. I have been looking for a good successor.

[@ThisIsVisser]

If you havent bought/played it yet, it feels fairly similar to tales in the storytelling and tone. I’ve only played the first mission and I’m scared that it won’t have the replayability of tales, but gameplay wise this game is far superior

[@Andural69]

How's the story compared to tainted grail?

[@arcubal]

Having dived into both, tonally Tainted Grail is a much darker journey of survival and uncovering secrets while Forgotten Waters is light-hearted pirate-style exploration. Plaid Hat has years now of experience finetuning its story-driven games (Mice & Mystics, Stuffed Fables, Dead of Winter, Comanauts, Aftermath) while Awaken Realms is up and coming with very ambitious projects (Etherfields) but is still beginning. According to Tom, it appears that the quality of the narrative is higher with Forgotten Waters than with Tainted Grail, based on his praise as 'the best story game this year'. Keep in mind that Tom has a proven preference towards a more G and PG style of themes anyway than the more PG-13, darker style of Tainted Grail so that may also play a bit here. Quantity-wise it seems that you're definitely getting your money's worth with either choice.

[@TheKalanar17]

@@arcubal This is a fantastic comment. I really appreciate the evidence you bring up. Thank you for making the Internet great again :)

[@JamMan11]

And that will be a pre order from me!

[@TheloniusMage]

Glad I preordered this!

[@berkinaktas2899]

Do you recommend the game 2 players?

[@MegaLeege]

It says it's 3-7 players

[@aonline_abridged]

@@MegaLeege indeed but like in a lot of co-ops, you can take control of multiple characters in order to play with low human players count.

[@sophaletto]

We've been playing this at 2 and really enjoying it

[@jenniferhaar7934]

sounds like so much fun

[@zmollon]

I can't afford both this and Sleeping Gods and Arkeis. Compare/contrast? So much competition.

[@arcubal]

I backed both Sleeping Gods and Arkeis and from what it seems is that this is more akin to Sleeping Gods. The exploration, the triggered narrative moments and choices and the running of a ship all seem similar. Having said that, Forgotten Waters has a little more immersion (with the app) and also appears to have a slightly easier set of game mechanisms (which is good for non-gamers). Arkeis, although at the same complexity level gameplay-wise, is a very different game it looks like. More a modular tile dungeon crawl that, although scenario-based is less story-driven and more action-driven. Not saying that it's a lesser game (by any means), just different. Hope this helps!

[@gooddaysgames586]

Well said Tom!

[@lordbow]

Is this a game that can be played solo with three hands? I'm reluctant to buy it because I know I won't be able to get the three human players

[@SpaceExplorer]

sounds fun!!

[@templedumeeple]

Can we play this game with 2 player playing 2 role each (so 4players controle by 2 person)?

[@squidracerX]

Oh - its answered below!: "They developed the solo and 2 player variant after they sent the game out to print so it is not in the rulebook, it is on the app options however."

[@templedumeeple]

@@squidracerX yeah thanks, I just hear the infomartion from Rodney Smith too

[@shaneannigans]

It's co-op, but can it be played solo? Or is there a traitor mechanic/steal each other's stuff objectives?

[@arcubal]

A 1-2 player mode has been announced to be available through the app. No word on any traitor mechanic, unless it's a scenario-specific part down the road.

[@shaneannigans]

@@arcubal Cheers for that info. I'll keep an ear amd eye out for more details 🙂

[@sandrabasel1545]

You can watch a fun solo playthrough: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZLLmoupabaZmdU

[@F4R207]

Well this looks like a surprising little gem to look out for. The crossroads was the best part of DW. Thanks Tom.

[@twinkle04evr]

Once you have done all the campaign, can you play again? Thanks Tom

[@TheBoardgamist]

Yes you can - print off new sheets off the website or just use different characters and different random events and choices should lead to a very new experience!

[@twinkle04evr]

Thanks Tom!

[@TheVoidstorm]

Darn it! Now I have to add it to my buy list.

[@TerrierHalo]

This game looks really neat, will put it on my wishlist.

[@BLDTHEGAMER]

how is the replayability?

[@bricelory9534]

This does seem like a cool game - a very interesting experience that sounds a lot of fun, with a fun theme. Honestly sounds cater-made for Tom, haha! I think for myself, I will try out Sleeping Gods which seems much more friendly for 1-2 players, and I could foresee playing it with my girlfriend more than with a larger group. This seems like a great option for larger groups than Sleeping Gods.

[@AndreWDYounitedRevolution]

holy..Tom stop hypeing me like dat :D

[@bagookster]

Wish this was out now... with all this free time.

[@karllake3693]

Well, if you preordered it, it is out. Got ours today!

[@arcubal]

@@karllake3693 That is great news! It sure beats waiting around for any ole Kickstarter game to arrive these days...

[@bagookster]

I didn’t know it was coming out so soon! Yay!

[@matthew.strout]

Would it work well with 2 players?

[@Revariance]

It's 3-7 out of the box but the app provides solo and 2p variants.

[@boardgamefangirl]

Alex Jones Good. 3P minimum can be a hard sell.

[@yellolao]

There is an official solo and 2p variant. It will be listed in the (web)app. You can also see it posted by the designer on BGG here boardgamegeek.com/thread/2383246/solo-and-2-player-variant

[@Sam-vk8xd]

Solo and 2 player just have you doing more things during a turn (as you saw in the overview each person has a “role” on the ship and a little station). So if the 2 players don’t mind having to do extra it should be an enjoyable experience. It does seem to be a ‘the more, the better’ kinda game though.

[@boardgamefangirl]

@@Sam-vk8xd But is that in the official rules or some BGG variant?

[@wfp9378]

3:44 Usually pronounced as "bo'sun"

[@TheBlutark34]

I noticed that, TIL.

[@andrewbulawa3273]

"...take a constellation token." It's always nice when a game has constellation prizes. :P

[@petergross7235]

I know apps are going to keep entering into the boardgame sphere....but man I would just prefer a deck of cards over a button. I also worry about running out of sheets. Having said that...Tom makes the story concept sound so good I might have to overlook the bad and focus on that great story arc the game offers. Thanks Tom. 🤠

[@toma087]

You can print more!

[@DanielLicata]

The amount of content, the ability to correct/add content, and the way the system works makes it very hard and fiddly to do without an app, not to mention the cost. They have some news on their site/podcast about it.

[@petergross7235]

@@DanielLicata I get it. I just don't really consider a game with an app a board game anymore. If you need a computer to figure out and play the game, it's a computer game. I am old school I know.

[@roseability86]

@@petergross7235 If a game is played with/on a board, surely by definition it IS a board game?

[@petergross7235]

@@roseability86 I guess that's the question isn't it? By definition you're right. There is a board, it's a game, etc. Agreed. If the game has a computer controlling the mechanisms is it also a computer game?

[@Anasthy]

Interesting game- great review

[@7uF12]

Did I hear Piccolo?? IM IN!

[@NeilY1000]

infamy infamy ...they've all got it informe

[@krambis12]

Can this be played by two players?

[@egidijuskalasunas4893]

Yes, There are duo and solo scenarios.

[@squidracerX]

I dont have a tablet -- can you play on a phone? And what kind of tablet do you have? (I might read digital comics on one as well, but dont want to break the bank!).

[@iam1hobbit]

Yes, you can use a phone, tablet, or computer! You can check out the app right from the browser here: www.fwcrossroads.com/

[@nickvandam1214]

Are people really trying to stop app integrated games? or are there just some people that don't like them, the same as there are people that don't like roll and write, dexterity, etc.

[@Axoltolion]

Is this on amazon yet?

[@snailysaurus]

I looked for it on Amazon a couple of days ago but it's not listed yet. Cool Stuff Inc. is currently sold out, but (as far as a couple of days ago ) Fun Again Games has it in stock.

[@simland]

I can't believe you component dropped this game. So many bits.

[@searose6192]

This game look AMAZING.

[@PickleTheHutt]

For those reading here to decide if they should purchase, not everyone sings high praises for this game. I was excited about it before playing but really disliked the game and sold it after the first scenario. Neither my wife (not a huge surprise as she rarely games) nor my 9 year-old son (surprise as he likes almost everything) cared for it either. My biggest complaints are the overly silly narration that takes way too long to listen to and the constellation mechanic being too important in an otherwise choose your own adventure game.

[@go_golden]

I think the tone of the narration is just right, reminds of Monkey Island and Pirates of the Caribbean, but to each to their own.

[@HALOX30]

10:20 don't you mean end of the round? you said end of the scenario, that doesn't make sense.

[@DatScharger64]

God damn, such small text. Also, BBG rates it 2.21 for medium light. This honestly looks friggin' complicated.

[@Isnogood12]

Gonna answer even if it was five months since your comment: - You can adjust the size of the text in the app or use it on tablet or PC. I have a really bad eyesight and have had no trouble apart from the character sheet backgrounds having very small font. - 2.21 is a bit too high. All you have for players is the standee, their 4 treasures and a die. Then you have the roles and the character sheet. Even Monopoly is more complicated on the component side.

[@jacoblighter8706]

I wonder how this compares to Sleeping Gods

[@davey177]

And out of nowhere...Pirate ALL MIGHT from My Hero Academia

[@youperguy]

Tom. I was thinking of playing with my kids. I assume that the 14 and 11 year old will be Ok. Thoughts on 7 year old?

[@mrsuitcase9799]

I've got an 8 and a 12. Sounds like it is okay if they can handle swearing ? (from the review?) But Tom's only done 2 scenarios ... Hmm... probably worth the risk.

[@JaKamps]

This or 7th Continent?

[@RandomPerson-nd2ey]

This because pirates? Haha. That is a good question and that answer wasn't very helpful so... how about this one: this one is made by the same creators as "Dead of Winter" which I think is a pretty great game. Those two points may not mean much to you but they were part of why this was the first game I've ever preordered so... maybe?

[@bagookster]

I so wanted to like 7th continent, but didn’t at all.

[@arcubal]

Why not both? They tap into different experiences though. Whereas 7C is more of an academic, slow-and-steady burn of exploration and survival, FW appears to be more exciting, co-operative, let's-keep-this-ship-afloat, kind of mayhem. It helps that the story has humor and doesn't take itself too seriously. With all of its visual design flair and fun-piratey theme, Forgotten Waters is more of a 'Lucky Charms' cereal compared to the healthy, crunchy granola that is 7th Continent. They both still a certain hunger at different times.

[@MattCrawley_Music]

Marcel the Arcubal because budget?

[@arcubal]

@@MattCrawley_Music Lol. Solid point, my friend, solid point indeed.

[@ccggenius]

Pretty sure it's only 14+ so they don't have to go through the extra approvals. There's a lot of that going around lately.

[@bkd_riptide2610]

There's actually multiple times in the game it talks about sex and drugs so maybe not lol

[@jakefernandez6623]

So this really sounds like a video game, and I wonder why I would just play this, say over an RPG? Is this just a group RPG?

[@arcubal]

Good points. But, if you're like me and need to get away from the eternal screen... that's why I play 'analog games' at least anyway. And an RPG? I'd say that an RPG always trumps RPG-in-a-box style board games but, of course, that means you have to be able to get players to want to play an RPG. For some that's still too daunting over a single night of moving around bits and pieces. And then there's the nights when you're all by yourself and just need to play a little interactive story...

[@cartergreen2309]

Well if you're like me I only play rpgs solo on the computer or console. This a group experience more akin to dnd but not as long or in depth. I pre-ordered and absolutely love it as someone that doesn't like campaign style games because id rather play an rpg or dnd. Its more like a part game rpg

[@MisterAbysmul]

App driven, times element, fiddly, standees, and bookkeeping. Hard pass for us. I’m sure lots will love it though. Good review Tom.

[@carla8478]

Yeah, the time pressure element is what kind of kicked us out too. That and the swearing, etc. But I was sad, it looked like an interesting story.

[@blubblub61162]

Just skip the timer. We did for our first play through and had a great time. Allows for a little extra teamwork and planning if you'd rather go that route

[@Noonycurt]

Since I'm apparently in the minority thinking that 7th Continent and Pandemic Legacy do NOT have a "strong story", I'm gonna skip this one. :)

[@iam1hobbit]

Story is a MUCH bigger element in Forgotten Waters than in either of those other two games. I really like both 7th Continent and Pandemic Legacy, but neither are comparable to Forgotten Waters in terms of story.

[@iam1hobbit]

(I've played the prototype in a couple different stages of development)

[@gordo6908]

how do you all define story? kinda lost here but interested in the reasonings

[@Noonycurt]

@@gordo6908 That's my biggest issue with those games' "stories". It's just a string of events that happen. You could define the things that happens to you a "character arc", but that would be stretching it.

[@gordo6908]

@@Noonycurt could the old contrasting example of 'the king died, then the queen died' being just a series of events while 'the king died, then the queen died of grief' is sort of a story since it implies a setting, relationships, desires, and has a tiny arc be applicable to how you view these games? mind concretely defining story or pointing to some games you feel do it right to help me understand your perspective?

[@Trae_Lenox]

Tom that’s a 7. Might need a head CT...

[@davinery1278]

Whoa

[@eyeati]

Too bad in my group i can't even dream of playing games heavily dependent on english.

[@a.wosaibi]

If you're up to it, maybe you could kinda be your group's "GM" in this game :)

[@caseymarriott9795]

Cat

[@SuperboyReborn]

You might say the voice work is Plus Ultra or over 9000? Lol

[@entrecruzado]

4 hours...

[@OneDadManyKids]

So we call these app required games "board games" but at what point do we start calling them video games with physical components? Board Games + Apps = Trash

[@roseability86]

There is nothing to qualify this game as a video game. The app is static images, writren narrative and audio that accompany a board game.