Brian De Palma and Martin Scorsese Critique Each Others Work | The Dick Cavett Show

[@jwnj9716]

Brian De Palma's films are underrated as hell, so many great ones that people don't mention much.

[@danyram2029]

Scarface that one is a clasic

[@spaceman_sz]

To me, even Scarface is a little bit overrated. But let's say you're right, still Scorsese is just on another level.

[@anantambisht4895]

@@spaceman_sz Lmao scarface is best

[@caitlinjoy6332]

Spaceman Sir. Agreed! I think the only good thing about Scarface is Al Pacino.

[@johnfitzpatrick3094]

Blow Out.

[@ryodash]

De-Palma 0.75 speed. Scorcese x2 speed.

[@comanchedase]

George Massey x4!

[@alphabetaxenonzzzcat]

Well, in the 1970s - Marty was doing a lot of cocaine! So, that explains things.

[@calypso8094]

LMAO

[@scampoli25]

I legit just checked my playback speed after hearing Marty talk

[@timy9197]

@@alphabetaxenonzzzcat he talks like this now lol

[@Carlos-ln8fd]

Both complete geniuses. De Palma is forever my favorite filmmaker.

[@jamstonjulian6947]

One of the few 'modern' directors that continued the idea of visual storytelling that made Hitchcock so great. I certainly don't like all of De Palma's films but I respect the fact even when making something like Mission: Impossible he stripped it down to the basics of what makes a good scene on a visual level.

[@jonnybirchyboy1560]

I feel like directors like Tarantino and Paul Thomas Anderson borrowed a lot from DePalma’s style

[@mohammedashian8094]

@@jonnybirchyboy1560 Tarantino yes I would say so but for Paul in his early years I would say Scorsese mixed with Altman more so Altman because he was huge fan but starting with there will be blood he definitely became more Kubrick with his movies

[@ninamc6116]

I love Brian DePalma's movies. He doesn't get nearly the credit he should. His stuff from the 70's and 80's cannot be topped.

[@jonisafreak3]

He’s starting to get the recognition. Scarface and body double are masterpieces and thief, blow out, and the untouchables are amazing.

[@ninamc6116]

@@jonisafreak3 dressed to kill was my favorite

[@collectingfilms]

​@@jonisafreak3 thief is Michael man not De Palma

[@w900L]

DePalma must have gotten the inspiration for Pacino’s character in Carlito’s Way from this interview.

[@EJK2099]

I think Carlito's Way is actually based on a real life criminal(s)

[@WartyComb49398]

how so

[@w900L]

He looks like Carlito.

[@PoletBally]

For some reason, a line of actual cocaine materialized on the screen as I watching this.

[@mr.grumpygrumpy2035]

This is a proper talk show with a proper interviewer, not the clowns we get today.

[@Vismay_K]

What bout oprah winfrey??

[@DanNic88]

Cavett was a clown who often showed disrespect to guests

[@alexthompson9516]

These damn clowns

[@claduke]

@@DanNic88 Oh, I like him even more now then

[@radentstwo9793]

@@Vismay_K Her show focused on great themes but she's a bad interviewer.

[@TheGabe473]

I love Dick Cavett interviews!!! So glad this channel is here now

[@mmmodafoca]

this is what's missing with interviews today. everything or every interview seems like something PR folks prep the celebs for. This is why podcast thrive soo much, just because early on it seemed like away from sponsors and patreon.. podcast were a brief glimpse of real conversations... sadly even those things are just being used for agenda driving purposes.

[@jaykapolka6111]

Marty's talking faster than usually does. Which is really saying something lol. Sniff sniff

[@hanswhite]

I don't think Scorsese has gotten out of his taxi driver role at this point.

[@sk-er8lb]

Do you Know who lives here ?

[@xPirus26]

Dick Cavett gotta be the sweetest interviewer

[@RareBirdGames]

At this point in time they were this old: Brian: 13,791 days or 37 years, 9 months, 4 days old Scorsese: 12,994 days or 35 years, 6 months, 29 days old Never give up on your dreams, your 30's and 40's is when things happen.

[@TheBirdieView]

30s is still young dw

[@RareBirdGames]

@@TheBirdieView Yeah totally, but as someone who is currently 30, who watched a lot of my colleagues and classmates drop out around 23-25 years old, people don't know this. Just want to inspire them and instead of holding yourself to some insane standard like Spielberg, aim for your 40's! Work on stuff every year, build up experience and a portfolio and you'll get there. Make at least one thing a year.

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

Thank you that made me feel better about myself

[@bacht4799]

But you should use your 20’s too get there.. if you started in the 30/40’s it’s too late..just saying not saying it’s impossible but started young and then moved up ..

[@ruly8153]

Great It started off nice Then you reminded me that I’m 51

[@FramesFTW]

Dick Cavett always knew exactly what to ask. Just seeing De Palma and Scorsese being interviewed together I was wondering what it's like being close friends with a director as a director yourself and Dick basically asked exactly that.

[@sameerahmed-gx8js]

De palma is underrated

[@h.a.4600]

Despite creating one huge masterpiece.

[@fmellish71]

@@h.a.4600 which is Blow Out

[@h.a.4600]

@@fmellish71 I actually meant Scarface. Its has been over 35 years and its still relevant today. And makes new movies look weak.

[@h.a.4600]

@@fmellish71 Blow Out well i haven't seen that Movie, i met a friend that loves Scordece and De Palma movies and im trying to catch up.

[@onedoorfilms]

@@fmellish71 Far from a masterpiece... it's good though and worth seeing. Falls apart ridiculously in the final act, but maybe I need to see it again. I thought the same of Scarface when I first saw it and now that's one of my favourite films.

[@chriswinston1223]

It's a young Ralph Fiennes.

[@danieltorres5778]

When I look at De-Palma it's hard to believe he made Scarface and Carrie

[@GamingCaveman1989]

and Blowout and Mission Impossible

[@thevindranrames]

He’s made much better Movies too

[@danieltorres5778]

@@thevindranrames it's my fault for not watching his other films aside from Carrie

[@javiermorhaim3667]

The Untouchables is an absolutely master piece. His movies should be studied endlessly. Brian de Palma rocks!!! It is among my favorite directors like Blake Edwards , Sam Peckinpah and Don Siegel.

[@kdizzle901]

Blow Out is my favorite but I like a lot of his films

[@ThePyroSquirrel1]

I’m a sucker for Raising Cain it’s just so crazy I love it

[@Hollowshape]

When Scorsese had a beard and De Palma didn't!

[@timonsteup2877]

I have seen another interview from the same year and he had a beard. A few months it was back as well. So this seems to be some sort of short beard-less period.

[@leostales2681]

Its so backwards!

[@ramifications2140]

Scorsese looks so fucking cool.

[@peterzang]

When talk shows use to inform and entertain

[@Plusse]

*used to

[@mahadewisavira]

when great directors and filmmakers are actually appreciated for their work

[@DLites151]

De Palma: My movies don't depend on characters as much; 5 years later Scarface comes out lol

[@Cenot4ph]

without Pacino, that movie would have failed. It really got elevated because of him

[@ΧρήστοςΝικητέας-ν2ρ]

And he also did carlito's way, some years later, which still is a character driven movie compared to the rest of his oeuvre

[@DanCrowleyNYC]

What an amazing clip to find as a film buff! Love these two directors so much!

[@eliasandrinopoulos8746]

What Brian was saying makes a lot of sense, as he comes from that Art History/ & Technical/Computer background so his films are more on the stylized side, whereas Marty is coming from that pure directing background, and I think you can really see their backgrounds in how they express themselves in their work. I happen to love both approaches and in art, there’s no right or wrong, it’s just how you wish to express yourself and what kind of tastes you have.

[@rufust.firefly6744]

Scorsese to Di Palma: “You rip off Hitchcock” Di Palma to Scorsese: “You rip off your momma”

[@victorkong82]

Catherine Scorsese was awesome. I enjoyed her in everything she was in.

[@vb8428]

Did they ever say this?

[@themoreyouknowfools4974]

@@victorkong82 God bless her soul

[@rctubs3593]

DePalma is the closest to Hitchcock that we have.

[@hubris3067]

Great interview with Martin Scorsese and his dad

[@pjost6643]

Lol

[@Jack-ep6xl]

Alfred Hitchcock + Martin Scorsese = Brian de Palma

[@justinbergmans36]

Dressed to kill, Scarface, and just my opinion, the best mission impossible film, because it didn’t showcase Ethan hunt being the over the top stunt man/secret agent. De Palma is etched in stone as one of the legends.

[@miguelvidal2335]

Looks weird seeing Brian De Palma without beard.

[@Malum09]

Elena Sos YES

[@TheMogul23]

He stole Scorsese's beard.

[@rohithkrishnan2959]

Looks weird seeing Martin Scorsese with a beard.

[@raulguadalupe3489]

De Palma’s choreography with unique camera angles is unparalleled.

[@elalejo1258]

A lot of people talk about Brian de Palma not being overrated, in fact if he was overrated in the 20th century and is missing in the 21st century because his projects have failed, Martin Scorsese continues his projects are great were successes in the 21st century. Brian de Palma will always be a great film director.

[@robbo03]

No such thing as overrated. If someone's work is good then it deserves to be liked as much as it is

[@comanchedase]

marty looked at brian's boots and said: Wow you are a real cowboy!

[@wanderer4568]

I know I'm probably in the minority that prefers De Palma to Scorsese

[@thedimedrop8153]

Need to add those related videos at the end. I love this channel.

[@beastl8rsk8r02]

Interesting to note that their "masterpieces" were years away from this.

[@solomonrichards599]

Well "Mean Streets", "Phantom of the Paradise", "Taxi Driver" and "Carrie" had already come out, but yeah, their best was still definitely ahead of them.

[@tarnopol]

Also: Where is the whole thing, why isn't it up now, and why am I not watching it?

[@s4mp_founder]

Wish Scorsese did a late 70's drama piece centered in New York with Dustin Hoffman and Dennis Hopper.

[@kontrolbug392]

That was probably the last time you could see De Palma without a beard 😆

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

so natural and funny. great laugh.

[@ienjoysandwiches]

This channel is too addictive.. I have to be careful with you guys or I lose half my day

[@Bryan-rr4uq]

Two of Tarantino's biggest influences right here. Amazing.

[@ThePlaceForThings]

another great suggested video 🍿 love these old filmmaker interviews. So cool

[@770WT]

Martin playing the angry grumpy guy well .

[@richerite]

De Palma looks like a Silicon Valley CEO

[@isuriadireja91]

Lucas credited De Palma for creation of the Star Wars scroll, at the start of each SW movie....

[@TheSanoko]

wow i was watching a Marlon Brando interview and KZbin recommended this to me, thank u

[@raulrodriguez4006]

Wow they were so young.

[@ronmackinnon9374]

Viewers might be interested in looking up a cover article from the October 1980 issue of 'Saturday Review,' entitled 'The Brutalists: Making Movies Mean and Ugly.' It focuses on Scorsese, De Palma, Paul Schrader and Walter Hill.

[@TheBatandVanGorder]

Great stuff! De Palma and Scorsese 💪. Thanks for sharing!

[@rctubs3593]

In DePalma movies the camera is the star.

[@mccloysong]

Scorsese talks in machine gun bursts. (Sniff)

[@MegaSina777]

good old days

[@Tusc9969]

The only one missing there is Francis Ford Coppola

[@gallery7596]

I'd like to ask De Palma why Andrew Steven's character in "The Fury" had the ability to float in midair, but in the climax he slips from Kirk Douglas' grasp and falls to his death.

[@thewandering525]

Gall ery This cinemasins acolyte deserves a ding.

[@imronburgundy69]

That's more of a question for screenwriter and novelist John Farris who wrote the book and screenplay

[@themadmattster9647]

It’s one of the rare DePalma flicks I don’t dig all that much though it has its moments and I love Carrie

[@UberOcelot]

Wow, if you gave me a photo of Scorsese at this age I wouldn't have recognized him.

[@Vismay_K]

Scorsece is so different now. Then he is so like a Badass Dude! More like a goon

[@christophermirkovich7290]

Martin Scorsese was the inspiration for Carlito's Way

[@rockturtleneck]

It's funny, Scorcese is so well known and iconic looking, yet I had no idea that was DePalma until I started watching.

[@orangewarm1]

Apparently Speilberg gave some tips on the last big shootout scene in Scarface.

[@armandoescobedo3854]

Carlito's Way 👌🏻👌🏻

[@jankypop-a-matic58]

Funny, we actually have some smoke shops in my city called Carlito's Way....lol

[@ZiggyHernandez]

An interview with Martin Scorsese and White Shrek

[@cinnamon4605]

Talk of truths

[@aerpx]

Wow man, I feel like De Palma was on the notch with critiquing his own work. I agree, he does need actors to be a little bit better do to his visual and stylistic focus. I’m a big De Palma fan too, but take Carlito’s Way for instance which I think is his best film, and see how Pacino is probably one of the biggest reasons that the movie turned out to be so damn good.

[@Pumba0306]

Interviewers aren’t like Cavett anymore. Jimmy Fallon and kimmel are too busy making unfunny jokes and just mocking their guests instead of actually conducting an interesting interview

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

Scorcesse used to look scary/bad ass

[@majortom4658]

highly recommend the KZbin, De Palma tribute, ' BRIAN DE PALMA - MASTERPIECE, a cinematic & musical film montage masterpiece !!!!!!!!

[@Gannooch]

I have nothing against the other celebs that were on this show but is this channel ever going to show the Dick Cavett shows where he interviews Jackie Gleason or Art Carney? How about any Honeymooners actors that were part of the main cast? These are rarities much like the other videos around here.

[@NoName-jq7tj]

It’s true after all these decades Da Palma was right when saying these director should not fail & they didn’t. 🎥 🎞

[@patrickclamrod9454]

Brian De Palma looks like a mix between Ben Gazzara and Michael Fassbender. Anyone agree?

[@onedoorfilms]

I see a young David Warner in there too, the photographer from the original Omen.

[@matthewpaul6904]

DePalma without a beard is odd for me. He looks like Chevy Chase's brother.

[@williamgregory1848]

Can you imagine a filmmaker today trying to explain the importance of a Dutch angle or the Kuleshov effect on Fallon or Kimmel? Nowadays, if you’re a filmmaker on a late night show, you have to dish on bullshit drama or what working with an actor is like.

[@Gannooch]

have nothing against the other celebs that were on this show but is this channel ever going to show the Dick Cavett shows where he interviews Art Carney or Jackie Gleason? I

[@Gannooch]

How about any Honeymooners actors that were part of the main cast? These are rarities much like the other videos.

[@spb7883]

This is the Scorsese I grew up knowing, the personality that I was aware of. He seems a very different person since his parents died, which is understandable. Of course, this is the perspective of a fan who will never meet the man. But it never ceases to amaze me that anybody would find this Scorsese “unrecognizable”. That to me is like not recognizing Babe Ruth.

[@ggff3761]

spb 78 he was also on a lot of drugs and drinking a lot at this time (but he doesn’t seem that different a person)

[@nicktosti7487]

his parents were still alive during this interview

[@spb7883]

Nick Toss indeed, and I think (naturally) their deaths had a major affect on him.

[@ninamc6116]

His horror movies are the scariest things I've seen. "Sisters" was so horrible, makes "Carrie" look tame

[@taciosnovels8675]

My favorites directors. ❤

[@SiLoMixMaster]

Scarface vs Goodfellas

[@BilboB]

Goodfellas not even a competition

[@SiLoMixMaster]

@@BilboB I'd pick Goodfellas too overall but the end sequence of Scarface is legendary

[@BilboB]

@@SiLoMixMaster + true but long time since i have seen Scarface but i remember it being a little bit too cartoony and over the top plus i feel like Goddfellas was also just more my style of movie in terms of cinematography

[@mikeydubbz1]

That’s like comparing McDonald’s to filet mignon. The only people who like Scarface are teenagers and rappers, it’s a terrible movie. Goodfellas is one of the greatest films ever made.

[@majestyk3337]

@@mikeydubbz1 It's a terrible movie with an incredible performance by Pacino.

[@tylerolsonfilms]

if only late night shows were still like this!!!!! ugghhhh

[@flyingfrogofdeath9616]

Damn, if only this was shot after Blow Out. Would have been much more interesting. Not that this wasn't of course

[@mitchgawlik1175]

Because of Dick Cavett's interview style I frequently found, and still find, myself wondering about things not being discussed. As an example here, I wondered what makes a truly great director? DePalma, Scorsese, Coppola, Hitchcock...what do they see in actors, how did/do they pull the best out of actors, etc.

[@furtherback6131]

I just spent about 45 minutes putting together some great stuff for you in a reply (in the form of links to interviews with actors and directors) about your comment, because it raises a topic I've been passionately interested in for a number of years. But I guess I accidentally hit 'refresh' on this page or something, because all of it's gone. Gonna start again now and will edit my comment as I get my shit together. Pardon my French. But I remember how I started my original comment. Here's how it went: My short answer to your first question is this: having a vision. The answer to your second question is more complicated, because different directors have different visions, different styles, different personalities, etc. and hence different ways of working with actors. And the same goes for actors: they all have different personalities, aspirations, styles, etc. and so have different preferences when it comes to being directed. So it's not just a question of what makes a great director vis-à-vis actors, but what makes a _certain_ director get the best out of _certain_ actors (and the other way around). You'll learn the most from simply watching interviews with actors on what it as like to work with a certain director, or vice versa, or watching them being interviewed together on their collaboration. But there's some true wisdom to start with from the old masters himself, Orson Welles, who really made it clear what a director may bring to a picture - or may not. Take that in while I collect my shit. Pardon my French. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHfNY4Juhrl8hZo

[@mitchgawlik1175]

@@furtherback6131 Thank you for your reply, your thoughts and the link. I found it interesting but got the idea it was Welles interviewing Welles.

[@lynnturman8157]

Different directors have different strengths. Some are great at composition, some are great at editing, some are great at eliiciting great performances, etc, etc. I would be put Scorcese in the group of directors who can/could ellicit great performances. A lot of them can't. And especially nowadays when the focus is so much on technology & special effects.

[@TheJooberjones]

Thats marty?!

[@Lanooski]

Marty these days is so infectious and friendly seeming. He’s still concise but maybe a little less friendly seeming here...and I think it has everything to do with the beard 🤣

[@Baghuul]

Lanooski This was his lowest point, he was a coke addict.

[@Lanooski]

Baghuul gah OOF! I forgot. :/

[@spb7883]

He should bring that beard back. Save for “Mean Streets”, his best films were made while he wore it.

[@rldabomb33]

after goodfellas and casino. the comparison is not even close..

[@mm091540]

to think they hadn't even made their best work, yet

[@tarnopol]

The wit was Gore Vidal, I believe--but it might not be original to him. ("It is not enough to succeed; others must fail" plus "Whenever a friend succeeds, a little something inside of me dies.")

[@whywerentyouthere]

👏

[@whywerentyouthere]

Love it.

[@whywerentyouthere]

Is it a book?

[@WalterLiddy]

"Ooo. What a wit." - Brian DePalma

[@tarnopol]

@@whywerentyouthere I'm not sure where he said it; pretty sure it's really Vidal, though. Thing is, start reading him at random: it doesn't matter if you never find the quote; he's one of the best writers of fiction or nonfiction out there. If you want one novel to read, I say either Burr, Lincoln, or Creation.

[@perfiction7521]

Brian De Palma directed one of the best movie ever made in the history of cinema.... Scarface

[@avanishdutta2658]

But don't forget his more sublime and seminal works such as Blow out, dressed to kill, sisters, the untouchables, casualties of war, and carrie. Carlito's way isn't a favourite of mine, but it is good. He was a versatile filmmaker who was different than many of his colleagues in art of films.

[@perfiction7521]

@@avanishdutta2658 Blow out is one of Tarantino's Favourite movie

[@avanishdutta2658]

@@perfiction7521 Yeah, i know. It is one of the best de palma films. He was a very visual filmmaker, employing many of alfred hitchcock's techniques in his films.

[@HoodeloodumGAME]

Pot vs. Cocaine

[@BilboB]

i disagree with de palma, Scorsese’s movie are both heavy character pieces but also very stylized movies at the same time

[@julienperonne2347]

I think what De Palma referred to the fact that Scorsese simply builds more visceral and morally engaging human dramas, while De Palma's films are more about visual transgression and themes related to desire and voyeurism, and ultimately slightly more about cinema itself than about the human condition. Scorsese would be 40-60 in how his films respectively deal with the human condition and cinema itself, while De Palma would be the reverse, 60-40. De Palma's films are (generally) about the beholder's perspective, while Scorsese's films are (generally) about active protagonists's perspective.

[@futurestoryteller]

I reserve almost exclusively the deification I have for mortals on behalf of Martin Scorsese. To me the guy is like a lighting bolt, or an eight ball filled with pure cinema. When he dies it's entirely possible that I will cry, and I have never done that. I know he's a religious man, so probably would feel uncomfortable at being idolized in such a way, so I'll just say: if there's a God Martin Scorsese will live to make movies well past 100. I would say "forever" but I'll respect the biological time limit. All this to say I couldn't abide a breakdown of his filmmaking style in such a way. Like a pie chart. I don't see where his stylization ends and his character work begins. It's seamless to me.

[@julienperonne2347]

@@futurestoryteller I understand your qualm, and obviously I recognize that there is some level of artificiality in putting theoretical limits or bounds or separation into what truly is a seamless work. What I would say is that De Palma, because he is that much interested in the beholder's perspective and the idea to turn us into voyeurs through a protagonist, and getting us to think of the unthinkable, of the transgressive, rather than maybe building a visualization of a strong main character proactive's journey into the realm of good and evil (like Scorsese would), because De Palma is that much keen to explore the connection between the passivity of a look and the transgressiveness of a thought, he is quite naturally attracted to elements of storytelling that are metatextual or metacinematic, if you like, to visual motifs that convey a discourse on the power of cinema itself. Of cinema as a means to think the unthinkable, and more specifically to explore the tension between the fact that the sacred gives transgressiveness its value, and the fact that transgressiveness is all about violating the sacred. I think Scorsese's work is less metacinematic than De Palma is. I think Scorsese has ocasionnally a moral discourse, a moral stance on the industry, on cinema and entertainment in general, in some of his films, but that he's not overly interested in explicit references to cinema as a medium in his work. I think Scorsese trusts he is passionate enough about the medium to create strong cinematic experiences that reflect his obsessions (with New York, with tribalism, with God, etc etc), and thus, that he trusts that his works will not only reflect his obsessions about life, but also reflect his thoughts on how these obsessions have been explored by the medium so far. I hope it is clearer now and I am sorry if it seems pedantic. English is not my language and I learnt it in a rather classical, broomstick-in-arsehole kind of way. x)

[@lampad4549]

@@julienperonne2347 very interesting. Who do you prefer? And who do you think is better?

[@julienperonne2347]

@@lampad4549 Growing up, my affection for transgressive filmmakers increases, so prefer De Palma's kind of films, because I think he has a broader repertoire in terms of narrative canvassing, while Scorsese more or less sticks to realistic drama. But Scorsese made more good movies than De Palma, that's for sure.

[@myronsanders4563]

DePalma is probably thinking about the Menage Waiting on him in a Hotel Room after this interview is Done Scorsese is thinking about Cocaine

[@boxieracorn8445]

The last waltz was great

[@jebprendergast101]

Crazy to think these guys were considered equals back then. DePalma hasn’t made a good movie in almost 30 years.

[@nekromatica]

I thought snake eyes was fire

[@Bullz_eye47]

These 2 are 1 gang with spielberg, George lucas and Coppola

[@fahad3581]

Scorsese kinda looks and sounds like Jake Johnson in this interview.

[@CharlieA24]

I like to see Jake Johnson tackle the Scorsese persona in a skit or short.

[@fahad3581]

Charlie Aguilar I agree and wholeheartedly second your motion. Unfortunately, this could just as well never happen. Merely a pipe dream. Just like a Liam Neeson castro movie.

[@lakiog1938]

Brian De Palma > Scorsese

[@deniskostic1502]

They know each others so well hmmm maybe same man give them money for films, or same group of mans!!! Don't get me wrong they are fantastic ....I do not want sounds mean!!! GREAT WORKS GUYS!!! THIS IS PURE GOLD!!!

[@richarddechatfield2297]

Argentina spanish

[@oliverholmes-gunning5372]

Ah, cocaine

[@masmanado]

Beard

[@SpaceCattttt]

If De Palma had retired back then, the world would never have been given The Black Dahlia...

[@cbl1984]

Or Scarface...or Dressed to Kill.

[@SpaceCattttt]

@@cbl1984 Here, I looked this up for you: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

[@youceftobi8336]

I love that movie

[@pd178]

Coke

[@JeffRebornNow]

Ugh. I didn't like this interview. I could have thought of much better directions in which to take these interviews.