How to Run Social Combat in D&D

[@theDMLair]

🔥 Social Combat System | Lair Magazine Issue 42, Society & Splendor thedmlair.com/collections/lair-magazine/products/society-splendor-lair-magazine-42-june-2024-issue 🔥 $15 and above DM Lair patrons also get Lair Magazine issue 42 during June and July 2024. www.patreon.com/thedmlair

[@chaaase73]

asking my friends to play is high stakes enough

[@theDMLair]

Ask strangers. My very best games and groups have been formed from strangers I recruited online. Some of my worst games/groups have come from recruiting friends. This is anecdotal, of course, but there is something to be said about recruiting players who WANT to play to begin with rather than recruiting people who you have to CONVINCE to play.

[@risobro]

I've heard a great line from someone who said "Not all your friends are DND friends". So simple, yet so true

[@king_of_mushrooms]

@@theDMLair Interesting, for me it was vice versa. I guess my friends are just nerdy :)

[@cermence3931]

2:05 Social Interactions: Friendly vs. Hostile 3:07 How to build a FRIENDLY Social Interaction 7:42 Some DMs and Official Modules have monsters ALWAYS attacking first 9:21 How to build a HOSTILE Social Interaction 10:38 How to RUN Social Interactions - Skill Checks, Skill Challenges, and Social Combat 12:18 The Social Combat System 15:08 Mechanics & Stats 17:04 Grouping 18:00 Determining WINNERS, LOSERS, and AFTERMATH

[@mattsmith2247]

It's interesting that this video came out now when I was just talking to my groups a few days ago about how limited the social interaction rules for DND are. I think this stuff you have added here really does make the whole thing feel a lot better

[@robertshane8497]

I think I'll give this a try. My party loves to talk their way out of everything.

[@theDMLair]

Many do, but there's still usually players that WANT combat from time to time regardless. Combat is fun, and most of the stuff on our character sheets were MADE for combat. :D

[@robertshane8497]

@@theDMLair My party thinks combat as written is boring. I've managed to keep things interesting using some home brew but, I'm always looking for more options. Seriously looking at subscribing to the magazine.

[@Hot_Dice]

7:35 *takes bite of sausage breakfast sandwich* How dare you come at my sausage, Luke!

[@ra-tyrin]

"Social occasions are only warfare concealed." Kahn Noonian Sing, STOS, Space Seed.

[@EVL6479]

Sounds like a fun guy to be around!

[@travisbaggett2813]

I love all The DM Lair videos!

[@keithrawson3167]

This sounds like an interesting idea. I will have to try it for one of my planned player character background encounters.

[@theDMLair]

Sweet, hope it works well for you!

[@jierdareisa4313]

I love all the DM Lair videos!!!! ❤

[@SmurfeyBlues]

Yay! Thanks for the social combat system. This is awesome

[@theDMLair]

You are very welcome!

[@alexj1989]

This looks like an interesting system. I know in the past with games that have social dynamics like this a number of players get upset when their characters are forced to do something with social rolls.

[@theDMLair]

Any idea why the players get upset? (Players don't usually get upset in combat or exploration when they have to roll dice.)

[@alexj1989]

@@theDMLair It isn’t rolling the dice, it’s being forced to act in a certain way. It’s certainly not true of all players, but I have played with people who hate feeling like they are losing control of their character.

[@zednumar6917]

This would be good for urban/espionage campaigns where diplomacy is important. If you are trying to be more James Bond than Full Metal Jacket, social systems can add a new layer to the adventure that can be a lot of fun.

[@adamwill559]

Love this! Thanks for sharing!

[@theDMLair]

You bet!

[@garrickstangle5996]

We need an all-feline fantasy TTRPG. We could call it World of the Cats or WotC for short.

[@OrangeCat371]

Great system, I'm excited to try it out in my games! Just an idea: maybe there should be some way for a creature's allies to "heal" its morale during a social combat. After all, a creature could say "who are you gonna trust, us or them?" to a demoralized ally and talk them around.

[@Subject_Keter]

If it was me, it be like Fallout's speech checks where you use thr most applicable (and or your highest skill) to argue, defend or retrot and 40% of thr effect relies on the little speech. So like if you are aruging with Wizard and your barbarian starts to talk about how he is going to break hin apart graphically, it is most likely going to have the Wizard running or so distracted your Rogue can bonk him. Also i would have it so the more amped up and mad someone get, the more likely like a colour flash could stun them or a skilled talker could use their words to force a combantant to be bound to their words intill the talker say gets hit in the face or startled.

[@dane3038]

I've started making a list of taunts and flavor bites to add to combat. Even a smile after cutting a PCs cheek can get the player a little pumped up. I tuned out the rest because I don't play 5e. WoTC must be destroyed. That has not changed.

[@UncleBBQ]

Generally what i do is make the "hit points" for a roll their CR + the monsters Proficiency + Int, Wis, Cha mods. Then as long as the correct skill is used based on the situation, the players will roll. Every time they roll higher than the "social hit points" they take "social damage" equal to how much overflow, but if they roll lower than the maximum, then the monster regains social hit points. Kinda doubling down on the fact that when someone loses Morale, they lose it quicker, and vice versa.

[@princesskanuta3495]

Very good video, Thanks Luke!!

[@theDMLair]

Thank you, Princess!!!

[@PeytonThibs]

I've followed your content for a while Luke, but something you said here bothered me deeply. You mentioned to always get bacon on a breakfast sandwich. Now I love bacon as much as the next guy but getting bacon over sausage on a breakfast sausage seems excessive. Sausage will hold together better with the other odd shaped toppings such as eggs or hash browns. I believe wholeheartedly that bacon should be gotten as a side to the breakfast sandwich, this results in a good 1 to 1 ratio of sandwich to bacon, a perfectly balanced meal.

[@theDMLair]

Now, if you're going to have BACON as a side, I would argue that it can be better savored by itself, thus making that option superior in many cases. Thus, I'll forgive you the sausage on a sausage breakfast sandwich. :D

[@NotEpimethean]

Dropping a like because of daddy Bel in the thumbnail ❤❤❤

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Cool idea of social combat. Yes always bacon 🥓

[@theDMLair]

Thank you! Bacon is the best, right?

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

@@theDMLair oh yeah 👍🏻

[@israelmorales4249]

great video! thx for the info

[@theDMLair]

You bet. Happy to help!

[@dukejaywalker5858]

Luke! what is that you're drinking at 3:34?

[@samburchard9921]

Mmmm Bacon! This is an interesting idea. Would love to see your party play this out. What happens if the PC's loose? What will they be compelled to do? Sounds problematic. I do have this image of a fancy dinner party and everyone being engaged in polite verbal combat. The stakes are the question, if the party looses they need to loose something real and tangible but not over the top. Any ideas?

[@sterlinggecko3269]

what about bacon sausage? I found a pretty good pineapple and bacon chicken sausage that comes out great in the air fryer.

[@theDMLair]

Bacon sausage...I think you're on to something! :D

[@drmadjdsadjadi]

I have typically avoided die rolling during social interactions except when the party is trying to use magic to “persuade.” Instead I insist that players either role play the encounter or describe exactly how they will do this. That way it is truly a skill-based encounter based on the player’s skill, not their character’s skill, as modified by the character’s class. Thus a player playing a bard can act out the seduction abut does not need to roll play a seduction but they do need to describe how they would seduce in detail. A player playing a barbarian can role play intimidation or they describe it in detail. So long as it is not completely ridiculous (asking for a shopkeeper to give away the good for free is ridiculous, asking for a 30% discount is not), I then let the players themselves decide if it works. No die roll needed. This provides a lot more player agency than die rolling ever could. When there is a totally ridiculous ask, they fail.

[@theDMLair]

So, if a character is good at something, but the player isn't, they just fail?

[@JonasFontanellaMoroso]

Time for some Phoenix Wright shenanigans 👀

[@channel_named788]

Have you ever thought about doing a podcast?

[@gaming4life551]

Did you say steak!?!

[@theDMLair]

Dang, steak is amazing, too. Rib eye, medium well. (Medium is best, but too often medium turns into medium rare, and I NEVER send food back to the kitchen out of fear of what might happen.)

[@Wasserbienchen]

I'mma let you finish but the best social interaction is when everything is roleplayed out word for word, and the players need to think on their feet and come up with good arguments. I get it, it needs players and a DM who are all capable of doing this, and enjoy it. But it beats any roll-based system if you can pull it off.

[@theDMLair]

I prefer that as well, tbh. And throw in a few die rolls where appropriate.

[@Scott-sk1rb]

Bacon is best!

[@tubalion2440]

I'm planning a campaign with a lot of political intrigue real soon, so this dropped at the perfect time!

[@hahayep5976]

Gavin?

[@theDMLair]

Happy to hear it! Hope you enjoy!

[@scetchmonkey007]

Yeah I dont see why you would want to get this complicated a best 5 of 9 skill challenge is usually adequate to handle things this indepth.

[@theDMLair]

Everyone has different cups of teas they like to drink.

[@scetchmonkey007]

@@theDMLair It's true, It's also not the first time I've heard of this concept or been in games that tried to implement something similar. Other system that have a dedicated social tier of stats like Vampire the masquerade make social characters king because it lets them force NPC's to do what they want without necessarily having to resort to mind control. The concept changes how the game is played. But as long as you have the buffer saying... it has to make sense before social combat is engaged... then I wonder why not just do skill challenges? If the DM is the final arbiter on that social combat and can say nope you cannot social combat that NPC. its would be as bad as saying nope you cannot combat that NPC he is immune to all damage.

[@BiasFree]

Always choose bacon?... ¿Por qué no los dos?

[@theDMLair]

As long as you choose bacon, you can pick whatever else you'd like as well. :D

[@GeraldKatz]

Pass. I understand the desire of not wanting social interaction to be determined by one die roll, turning it into a combat by another name is not the solution. Social interaction is its own special separate thing from combat. The single die roll is a facilitator. The reason the die is rolled at all is to ensure DM bias does not interfere. The DM has to play every NPC. The DM can make some decisions for the NPC by fiat, but at some point the DM can't because then it becomes a railroad. The die roll tells the DM how the NPC responds. DM bias is removed. The player accepts the fairness of the result even when the NPC does not do what the PC wanted. The player is playing against the NPC, not the DM. The player doesn't have to read the DM's mind to say the exact specific words the DM would demand to get the NPC to do what the PC wants. You can say social interaction combat is also doing that, but the dynamic is different. I don't want social interaction to be just another combat. It is its own separate pillar of play and should not be the same as combat. Making social interaction a combat takes away that pillar.

[@theDMLair]

I wouldn't use social combat for everything; just for high-stakes situations where a skill challenge isn't desired.

[@GeraldKatz]

@@theDMLair Don't worry. I still like you. You don't completely suck. :)

[@murgel2006]

How about not roling a die at all? Just play out the interaction and the DM in his role ajusts his "resistance" in accordance to the skills of the player? I mean the game is an RPG, not purely a tactical board game. Even D&D says it is.

[@Doauwed]

Under hour

[@selthafour6948]

Wrong. You should be held accountable for spreading misinformation with your platform. Not all bacon is good, sausage is almost always good. Some people’s bacon standards are too low. Smh. And you typically get much less bacon than sausage.

[@theDMLair]

I am a bad person. :(

[@NathanGrajek]

The title of the video is misleading and seems to contradict your own definition of "Roleplaying". I'm curious why you did not name it "high-stakes social interaction"?

[@Apeiron242]

Last time I was this early my girlfriend gave me dirty looks for a week.

[@theDMLair]

Just close your eyes. Early is good.

[@Demolitiondude]

0:46 my dude. There is way, way, way too much "social" combat. You're continuing with the extinction of armed combat. That thing most warrior classes get paid and experience from.

[@commonviewer2488]

Negotiation, not accommodation

[@Demolitiondude]

How to run high risk. Step 1: play older editions. Step 2: done.

[@dennisthornton4434]

Cool i'm first🎉

[@theDMLair]

Yay! :D