Why Tunic Hides Its Tutorial

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Over the last decade, videogames have gotten much better at communication. After so many years, we've finally got comprehensive tutorials, clear user interfaces and well-paced difficulty curves that never leave you overwhelmed or confused - but have videogames lost something in this transition to easy-to-play accessibility? The Architect thinks so.
After stumbling their way through forests, caverns and ancient ruins, The Architect has uncovered scraps of an ancient manual, containing a hidden secret within: Sometimes, hiding information from the player, and making learning itself part of a game's challenge, can make eventual mastery all that more satisfying. Luckily for us, Tunic is here to show us how this nearly-forgotten technique is done.
Check Out Skyehoppers!: / skyehoppers
You Saw:
Tunic - 2022
Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu - 2018
Gears Tactics - 2020
Shadow of War - 2017
Metroid Dread - 2021
Deathloop - 2021
Heaven's Vault - 2019
Psychonauts - 2005
Death Stranding - 2019
Street Fighter 5 - 2016
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - 2017
Metroid Prime - 2002
Hollow Knight - 2017
Steamworld Dig 2
Elden Ring - 2022
Golden Light - 2022
Bug Fables - 2019
Monster Hunter Rise - 2018
Monster Hunter World - 2021
Fez - 2012
XCOM: Enemy Unknown - 2012
BABA is YOU - 2019
The Witness - 2016
Antichamber - 2013
Super Metroid - 1994
Super Mario Bros - 1985
XCOM 2 - 2016
Portal 2 - 2011
Far Cry 4 - 2014
Half Life Alyx - 2020
Knightfall - 2022
Dark Souls - 2012
Journey - 2017
Minecraft - 2011
Satisfactory - Early Access

[@ArchitectofGames]

Here's a sneaky hint that no walkthrough will teach you - money can be exchanged for goods and services... My patreon is neither good nor serviceable but you get the idea: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames I hide all my secret hot takes on this twitter account where no-one will ever find them - least of all you, foolish reader! twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot

[@liamr6761]

As a french person, thanks. I liked your little message.

[@hinamiravenroot7162]

If you liked Tunic I highly recommend Hyper Light Drifter. They seem very similar in the Zelda-Souls atmosphere and the style of secrets and riddles.

[@markwalker3510]

as a three time nationally-ranked dark souls speedrunner this is genuinely the worst gameplay ive ever seen. im not saying it to be mean its just a fact, i know what im talking about (im a redditor btw)

[@ArchitectofGames]

@@markwalker3510 :,(

[@saku-ra8813]

4:13 Listen hear you little piece of sh-t >:'(

[@tabnk2]

I think the game Outer Wilds solves the problem of people not knowing that they missed a crucial bit of information using the “There’s more to explore here” note that pops up in your ship log when you haven’t gotten all the available info from an area

[@Roboardo]

Also in one interview the lead designer said they intentionally put the "hooks" of each plot line in multiple places to make sure you can start your exploration, even if you miss them the first time

[@SharienGaming]

while that can help - its basically impossible for the game to know if a player remembers or understood a thing you showed them in the past... but at some point you have to assume some base knowledge like for example in antichamber the game taught me at some point how one of the tools works and i used it appropriatly...so i knew the mechanic right? well.. a couple hours later i was completely stuck at a puzzle, because i completely forgot that this mechanic was a thing but i very much appreciate when a game tells me "hey this area has something you might still want to find" because its way better than aimlessly searching the entire gameworld pixel by pixel for the one thing i am either missing or simply forgot where it was

[@leftovernoise]

Outer wilds is such a well designed experience it's insane

[@wegogiant]

Was just about to type a similar comment myself

[@ArchitectofGames]

Intentionally didn't mention Outer Wilds because I've talked about that game enough but you're 100% right!

[@Woodledude]

My takeaway from this video: Drifting on a horse is possible, if you have a REALLY awesome horse.

[@Garwinium]

Well now we need a medieval remix of Night Of Fire

[@vizthex]

or just play horse riding tales like josh strife hayes did.

[@EggBastion]

or pig

[@cianos9011]

know the name of that game?

[@nulnul7050]

@@cianos9011 knightfall

[@CrispBaker]

Discovering the Holy Cross was one of the most "OH YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME" moments I've had in a game for a good while

[@Kufunninapuh]

I liked most things about tunic except this one moment which felt silly.

[@Ludician]

It's an odd one to mention because it's actually very information-dense, but I remember Factorio fondly in this regard. It's quite good at letting you know WHAT you need to do next, but tells you nothing about HOW to do it, leaving you to create horribly over-complicated solutions to simple recipes... and discover your own efficiencies, design tricks, and "You can do that?!" realizations along the way. In a way, a recipe is just a way the game tricks you into designing nightmarish puzzles for yourself that you'll need to solve later.

[@helplmchoking]

I love that! It's how almost all video game puzzles, actually how all challenges full stop, should be designed imo. Gimme a clear goal, a setting with some limitations and a collection of tools to use and let me loose. Let ME solve the problem, don't make me find THE solution you had in mind. I love the open world Zelda's for this. You know you need to reach the end of a shrine, hit the buttons in a dungeon, get past this enemy group or whatever, you know what makes it hard and you often can see some hints left for you but it's up to you to take stock of your tools and options and figure out how to make it all work. They didn't seem to care what you actually did, so long as you succeed and enjoy the process. Heck the designers have stated in an interview that they love wacky shrine solutions. That they consider reaching the goal to be the correct solution, no matter how you did it

[@flograuper9294]

Most fun I’ve ever had waiting 20 minutes for someone to mention the outer wilds.

[@richiecastle460]

This is an interesting problem in table top games as well. In my d&d game, I learned long ago to never be ashamed to flat out tell players pieces of information crucial to the game. No matter how clever i think i am, at some point, the players will get stuck. My solution is a graded explanation system, where I first give very little info, than if they are stuck i give more obvious clues, and if still stuck, I flat out say, "if you push the ice demon into lava, it will deal alot of damage." At the end of the day, they'd rather be told right out than fumble for 30 minutes.

[@AnotherDuck]

You've got your priorities in order. Fun goes ahead of challenge. Even if having the right level of challenge is one of the most important parts.

[@stevegruber4724]

i will plan out a sub-optimal win condition for my D&D players or a means for escape. i don't want to hint too strongly that they *must* do something, but I will tell them about an option they haven't considered if they get stuck stuck.

[@thewanderer5506]

Games like this and Outer Wilds are phenomenal when you get those eureka moments, but fall flat in the replayability area because you always know the big twists and secrets The age old 'I wanna forget this game and replay it fresh' dilemma

[@NoxShadow]

I really recommend trying to play outer wilds and pretending you don't know what you're doing. Yes, a bit of your knowledge will end up taking you to the right place, if you want it or not. But I found that if you explore the game like it was your first time, exploring the ruins one by one, following the clues you find and roleplaying as a newbie, you can still feel part of the satisfaction again I explored the home world, explored the dark bramble, got fucked for the first time, then went a bit slower to explore everything else from the little threads that I got from the bramble and the home world. I loved the game my first time around, and I was surprised at how much I had forgotten when I went for my second playthrough after the dlc came out, there's strangely a lot to rediscover in that game, you just need to pretend a bit.

[@megalogoro6388]

If I could keep forgetting outer wilds and replaying it again idk if I would ever need another game.

[@Boomblox5896]

I don't really like replaying games anyways, even if they have actual replay value to them, because I always hold this "Been there, done that" attitude about games, and I only have limited time to do stuff in my life, so I focus on completing it as soon as I can.

[@jassykat]

I don't know, but maybe because it tries to replicate that nostalgic feeling of mystery and discovery you get when playing a game in a foreign language and slowly gathering knowledge of what items do, map layout, controls, etc. It reminded me of me beating Zelda Twilight Princess in Japanese when I was 10 years old.

[@AscendantOat]

I wonder if the devs had a similar experience with an older Zelda game. There are illustrations in the Tunic manual that are direct references to ones in the original Zelda manual.

[@acrowdofpeople]

I had a similar effect with a French version of A Link to the Past that I picked up at a local flea market. No idea how it wound up here.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

Maybe? That's said, the translated version of the manual shows that the plot is completely different to what the player could guess, which the game is hinted at but never says it out in English directly. Not sure whether that's some sort of reference or just an intentional plot design.

[@Ramsey276one]

Now I get it Loving CCGs led me to an Elden Ring of choosing every option in a certain GBA ROM XD

[@7k7yub7]

I got the same impression. It feels like when I played the NES zeldas as a child when I had not a single clue about english or what is going on in general. In my opinion this truly is next level gamedesign.

[@pedroscoponi4905]

I know it doesn't enter into the discussion too much, but Tunic's thing with a user manual that you can only understand smalls sections of is a near-perfect reproduction of the feeling of playing games as a kid when you don't speak english. I'd say it maps onto playing games in japanese as well, but not nearly as neatly, since there's a lot of innate cultural exposure to english around the world that kanji just doesn't have.

[@aimelle3]

"This is me solving the biggest puzzle in the game." I have assembled the full manual, opened the mountain door, collected about half the fairies and a third of the collectibles, and I have no freaking idea what this is. WTF, Tunic, how far deep do you go?

[@JaredJeyaretnam]

Same except I got 11/12 collectibles and all the fairies. Lmao.

[@Lycanthromancer1]

Given that a lot of the puzzles in the game require you to make some incredibly unusual logical leaps to even realize they exist in the first place (like the fact that the music itself is an actual language; look up "Tune-ic" or "Tuneic" for more details)... Yeah, the game is basically a black hole's worth of depth, sucking even the very light of the world itself into its depths.

[@yomammabe1]

Friendly hint, path to that puzzle spot starts in the bedroom.

[@Lycanthromancer1]

@@yomammabe1 That's what she said.

[@aimelle3]

@@yomammabe1 That comment is 9 months old my dude. I've solved that puzzle by now.

[@cee_ves]

“In souls games people can help each other with the signs” Ah yes, like how in Elden ring on every door you can’t open there’s 15 “oh you don’t have the right, you don’t have the right” signs in front of it.

[@astralura]

"illusiary wall"

[@SystemBD]

"Still no lover, Therefore Try jumping"

[@mrwizard5012]

"Try woman, try finger butthole."

[@sanctusbepis8544]

"Liar ahead"

[@georgiykireev9678]

You don't have the right, O you don't have the right, in short you don't have the right, O you don't have the right

[@4ty2]

I think The Witness has a good way of dealing with the possibility of missing "the big secret" by giving you an almost obvious example of it near the ending area. That way it never tells you directly but most people will figure it out by then

[@Herio7]

You mentioned Razbuten experiment and I tried to replicate it with my SO. They made so many wrong or baseless assumptions, so many assumptions that veteran player wouldn't even think are possible, failed most menial task, missed so many tutorials and hints it was unbelievable to me how wrong one can go. Games like Tunic is clearly made for experienced players and I'm talking people who games for years but it isn't acknowledged anywhere because literally no one thinks like this. Books for kids aren't written in Shakespearean proses for a reason but games make no such distinction yet.

[@Repicheep22]

Now you've got me curious. Can you give a few examples?

[@fy8798]

Tunic is obviously designed for an audience that has played and remembers old isometric action-adventure games. It OF COURSE works much less well if you don't know anything about these. Even the game's name is a Zelda reference. You have to be daft to think it's aimed at completely new players. The difficulty shows that as well.

[@Herio7]

@@Repicheep22 in subnautica they missed scanning part completely which is required mechanism to make any progress. Subnauitica has no markers or quests like most modern games so they were lost and had no idea what to do, where to go. We veterans love freedom but it was bane for my SO. From mechanical standpoint they couldn't turn and move at the same time. Mistake liked half of the keys constantly. Couldn't figure simple UI because it could be accessible via different keys. Forgotten what each UI tab did 5s after leaving it. Asked why? They responded it's too much for them at one time, every time.

[@syro33]

I mean, children's books from the 1500's did use Shakespearean language, cause that was... The language at the time. Though, it probably wasn't filled with as many references and as much poetry as Shakespeare, thats for sure.

[@arglebargle5531]

@@syro33 -There were no children's books in Elizabethan England. If there were, they wouldn't have been written in Iambic Pentameter, they would have been dry, instructional affairs.

[@yukonau1153]

My fear is that since I often don't have time to finish a game in one sitting, I'll come back to a game without all of the knowledge I gained before. Even worse is if there isn't a log book to flip through that explains all the mechanics I've learned.

[@nikey2110]

Agree

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

this was my problem with morowind. the game was fun but i could never remember everything i needed too after taking a break.

[@beefpelican]

The only way I finally made it through Fez was when I was bed bound with covid and could do it all in 1 week

[@untipogracioso3038]

Same. Thats why a make notes on a piece of paper if i forgot

[@EvelynNdenial]

@@untipogracioso3038 the lesson of this video and the whole comment section is that we need more games that require you to take notes.

[@themore-you-know]

Lately, I've been playing and enjoying simple "Hidden Objects" games like "Nightmares from the Deep". I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the ways they handle players getting stuck: - Unless you play in Expert mode, you get the following mechanics to guide you along... a) access to a "Hint" button, that will place a glimmer on the next step you need to find or act on; b) access to a puzzle "Skip" button, which replaces the puzzle that you're stuck on with a familiar game of Mahjong (hence not making you feel like an idiot, since you're just solving an alternative game) c) if you wait for way too long, small glimmers and subtle light tricks will guide your eyes onto the next step. Unfortunately for me, I'm stubborn and I typically play the Hidden Game objects with Expert Mode on, wasting 3-4-5 extra hours blankly staring at objects and puzzles that fade out of existence as I space out. But I do really appreciate the Normal Mode. A lot of games could learn from Hidden Object games. For example: Metroidvanias, which could alternatively offer ways to grind-and-pay for hints, or have additional visual cues as time goes.

[@meathir4921]

I think Metroidvanias have the map - any point with an unexplored exit is a possible way to go. I can come back to Metroidvanias after a week and just open the map. But then, I’ve played many of them.

[@themore-you-know]

@@meathir4921, the problem with the map is that it is still quite possible to miss something, and when only 1 path of discovery is offered... every other action (and there are many possible) because failure states. Another good example on the improvements to be had are highlighted by the GDC talk from the creator of "A Short Hike": by multiplying the different places a "key" is found, it offers both freedom and minimization of the risk of the player walking away frustrated.

[@exyzt9877]

@@meathir4921 A better example is Prime's hint system, where you'll periodically receive reports from your gunship's scans of the planet telling you which room you should head to, and giving a subtle indicator of what you might find, but not showing any of the rooms before it, leaving you to figure it out based on which doors look like they might lead there, and what abilities you have unlocked. Personally, I think metroidvanias SHOULD require the player to be able to figure things out by themselves, and not tell them "Okay, go here, take a left, a down, another left, an up, a right, good job, here's the grappling hook." The main draw of these games are being able to go from a lonely explorer to a downright demigod in everything but name by finding stuff and as such, I think revealing the whole entire thing is just... a bad idea. But, I'm fine with the way Prime handled it. Because at the end of the day, you DO still need to figure out the path to your destination. The only thing you're given is the destination itself, and for me, that was just enough information to make me enjoy the game rather than hate it.

[@carlos7mh]

The social aspect of this game reminds me of the 90s joy of reading video game magazines or going to the older cousin’s house in search for clues when one got stuck in a game.

[@Aderon]

You hit the nail square on the head with the message for this one. One piece of dialogue in the manual just states that if you're stuck, ask a friend, and if they're stuck, help them out. There are also mechanics to the game that aren't even hinted at in the manual other than a handful of scribblings, and even then, if you do figure out how to read the writing system, only tells you that said mechanic exists. I discovered it by complete accident when I was fuddling about with the combat, trying something and then my complete random chance I did a very particular input that just so happened to be timed correctly with an enemy also doing a particular thing and then it happened. I had the charm associated with this mechanic equipped for hours before I understood how it affected the not-at-all explained mechanic mentioned only in one pen scribble of 4 characters.

[@brotbrotsen1100]

I'm curious now what mechanic is that and how do you activate it?

[@Aderon]

​@@brotbrotsen1100 Since the game's been out long enough I don't feel too bad about about spoiling it. If you tap the shield button, you'll parry, and if you time that right with an enemy attack, it will deflect and stun them.

[@gerg905]

ENDING SPOILERS FOR TUNIC IN THIS COMMENT: So I started Tunic because of this video and have since beat it. There were in fact a LOT of times when I was frustrated beyond belief. Because I'm the first of my friends and family to try it, I had nobody to turn to but the internet, which almost feels scummy in a discovery based game. This is especially because you can often skip puzzles unintentionally. For example, my playthrough. I ended up finding the secret/true ending for the game without ever having found wherever that room is that you "spoiled" at the start of the video. I also ended up getting that secret ending without ever beating the game with the normal ending. All I had going for me to complete the puzzle was one random NPC in the temple that said random runic gibberish with a "4th key" sprinkled in there. From then on I was just trying to find and collect everything, mostly manual pages in hopes that I could find this "4th key" somewhere in the manual hidden away somewhere. Little did I know that the manual itself WAS the 4th key. Because I beat the game without a full understanding of what was going on or even knowing what the normal ending, the secret ending ended up being just confusing and anticlimactic. I was expecting to fight either the big blue fox (like I later learned is in the normal ending) or some sort of bigger baddie behind it all, instead all i got was an admittedly touching ending that I had to draw a lot of conclusions from. This video did indeed make my playthrough a bit smoother, understanding leveling and such.

[@twilightvulpine]

The big irony is that if you figure out the language of the game, that NPC was talking that there isn't a 4th Key. But likely the designers intended for the misunderstanding to spur on more exploration.

[@hhhunter9227]

The true ending is way easier than getting to the biggest puzzle room that the video talked about. If you count that room as an ending as well then you merely got to the second last ending

[@Skaatje]

I think the information in a game should be layered depending on how deep you want to dive. But it has to optional and disabled by default. Or give you the option before you start the game. I like getting lost into Elden Ring at the moment and I sort of hate how many times I need to go to a website to figure stuff out.

[@gewurzgurke4964]

Yes, FromSoft arachaics approach to Questlines worked okay-ish in the more linear experiences like Dark Souls, but it is woefully unfit for the open world. A good old marker for more Quests (some do have them, the volcanic manor questline for example) would have solved a lot of the issues, not necessarily pointing you exactly where to go, but giving you a broad area and description on the world map so I can still figure out where to go after a 2 day break

[@jonathanfavourite]

A small but imo not insignificant way in which games can spoil things while trying to be helpful is by having all the keybinds available in the settings right from the get-go. When I start a new action or shooter game, typically I go straight to the settings to rebind things the way I like them (interact on Q instead of F, reload on E instead of R etc.) If I am not careful, I get a faceful of the game's weapons, items, and most mechanics, because they all have associated keys listed. Mind you, that's a very * me * problem, and only tangentially connected to the topic of this video, but hey there's your engagement you thirsty content creator you

[@Runegrem]

You're not alone in that. But I think it's kind of a hard problem to solve, since you want your players to be able to set their own controls. But to do that properly they need to know what all the buttons do since if you just let them know a few of them at the start they might set functions to buttons they wanted for another function if they knew it existed.

This is a real issue that I run into constantly. I have Opinions about controller layouts (stop making my poor thumbs do 95% of the work you monsters), so the first thing I do in a new game is figure out how I want to control it. I think it's very easy for a developer to recognise that their game rests heavily on gated access to knowledge & account for that in the settings menu. Instead of spoiling that there's a summon ability, tell me: "This button controls an ability you will use infrequently in combat situations." Then I can easily see that I probably don't have to bind that function to the A button, but can instead stick it on RS or Y or something.

[@lx-icon]

On the topic of tutorials hindering game enjoyment - one of the biggest offenders for me was Doom Eternal. They implemented quite a few different mechanics that are interesting, and they do the correct thing of introducing them one by one, which should be sufficient - but then they fully PULL YOU OUT OF THE GAME to throw you into a tutorial area where you have to perform the mechanic before it returns you to the level you were in. It's really frustrating!

[@samengsberg875]

A half second throw out remark to paper mario's flopside. I almost blinked and missed it. Love the effort that goes into the videos!

[@jameshart2622]

This! Definitely a "blink and you miss it" moment. I had to rewind the video to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

[@drowninafire]

I made a friend play Outer Wilds and I was the filter through which he got hints. The only way to re-experience that game is to watch someone else experience it.

[@lordook5413]

Amnesia is another way.

[@HalfpennyTerwilliger]

The cynic in me wonders how much "artificially boost my engagement metric" played a part in this evolution. We had complete manuals way back when, then they were scrapped to save money and replaced by ingame tutorials. Now we're scrapping ingame tutorials in favor of obscure hints pushing people to "share knowledge" and "create a community" by making wikis, tutorial vids and boosting the game's presence on socials.

[@oz_jones]

Oh man, I still remember the absolute beast of a manual that CIV II had. I had read novels that were thinner than that mf. Still love the game though.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

To be fair, if you had the whole manual from the start *and* translated fully, there wouldn't be much to the game. It would also just be information overload as well making discoveries you could have made by yourself completely obsolete. *And* there wouldn't be much point in exploring and thinking about what happened through observations of the environment if you were told the lore outright. There's definitely a few valid reasons for not giving everything at once that don't primarily serve to make the game popular.

[@emperortgp2424]

shouldn't really matter if the game is good

[@meathir4921]

@@emperortgp2424 The manual IS the game.

[@OneAndZer0]

I think if you're a person who plays games regularly you won't get stuck enough to look anything up. I just beat it, there was nothing in the main game that gave me trouble except for one small piece of a grander puzzle at the end. I would say it's a puzzle game just as much as it is an adventure game and you can't make a puzzle game by tutorialising solutions.

[@xsomeNOOBx]

For a game centered around discovery I found the act of exploring the world to be very frustrating. By the time I had the ability to use some of the features that make exploration easier, I barely had any time before the game strips you of all progress .

[@Great_Olaf5]

Uh... For what game? He mentions several in the video, so we have no way of knowing which one you're referring to. It can be reasonable assumed you're talking about Tunic since that's the one in the title, but...

[@RedCaesar97]

Oh great. I am on my third Tunic playthrough and I have never seen that place before. I don't know whether to hate you or thank you for the motivation to try to find that place myself (I really do not want to look it up if I can help it).

[@pokeforce9]

Same here... I couldn't help but scream in shock!

[@KhanShotFirst]

It's on the map!

[@omatsei]

I finished the game and got the true ending, and have no idea where that place is. If anyone knows, can you reply?

[@RedCaesar97]

@@omatsei I found the place. There is a portal that opens up in the trophy room, BUT I have no idea how I made the portal appear. And I do not have all the trophies, so I do not have all the trophies so I do not have all the symbols. And I think two of trophies require access to the Ruined Atoll which becomes inaccessible after you turn into a ghost.

[@kevincrisp6407]

@@RedCaesar97 You can change back to daytime by sleeping in the bed in the old house. The one near the windmill. I'm not sure if you have to visit all the hero's graves after getting the dash first though.

[@worthasandwich]

So I am currently writhing a ttrpg and this video helped a few ideas come a bit more in to focus that I have been thinking about for weeks. Part of it is how explicit should I be telling players and GMs what they can do. This video convinced me that the section "on running away from your problems" is important and valuable.

[@alecchristiaen4856]

I love how Subnautica does this with its story telling. There's an intro part, where you'll cover your survival basics (mainly some gear to increase your depth and reach) and discover some early escape pods (starting to sell you on the fact that no one's coming to help). Then the Sunbeam (an aptly named ray of hope) sends messages and eventually tells you they're going to save you. And then they're blown out of orbit. From this point forward, the game's completely freeform. You'll still get some distress signals from escape pods (one even baiting you towards the rather important floating island), but otherwise, your own curiosity and drive will propel the plot. The turret that shot down the Sunbeam will hold intel telling you of a handful of similar facilities. For two, they give the aproximate depth, relative location to the turret (which will be automatically marked, since you can keep using the Sunbeam rendez-vous marker) and a brief description of the biome it's in. Not much to go on. Essentially, the player is given the problem, but also the way to find the solution: one of the first things you learn is to use the scanner to make new blueprints. You've been taught the primary loop of the game: explore new region > scan wreckage for blueprints > make new gear > rinse, repeat. You're basically required to do this loop a couple times, often finding useful but not crucial gear in the meantime that will seemingly help you cut down on survival effort (like the water filter or various types of energy production) but will actually serve you into the late game, when you won't get close to the surface for hours of gameplay. Then, you may stumble upon the specific cave mouth that unlocks the second half of the game to you, and from there, the initial loop kinda stops, but we get the pay-off of our efforts: the story of what happened on the planet is revealed, culminating in the reveal waiting at the Primary containment facility (the location of which you'll have to find yourself). An entire story, driven only by the player's curiosity, the devs ability to convey the basic game loop effectively, and some bread crumbs of info to go on.

[@Skyehoppers]

Whoa! Thanks so much for the shoutout I really appreciate it! I had no idea you were even aware of my channel. I've been watching your videos consistently since like 2019 and you were one of the first channels that really showed me how much incredible depth there could be in the "videos about games" genre. I learn a ton about game design with every upload. This video was great too I really need to play Tunic since all my favorite KZbinrs are raving about it. (And as a long-time Super Paper Mario defender I appreciated the Flopside reference in the middle there lmao)

[@akirachisaka9997]

On the flip side, I feel like games obscuring methods of interacting with the game that are almost impossible to figure out without help from Google is pretty annoying. As in, in Eldenring, how to two hand an equipment was something new and never explained. So is how to switch to using left hand weapon on horse. It doesn't really feel like an eureka moment when discovering this. It only feels like a insult and a frustrating moment when you get punished for not knowing how the game's controls works.

[@Drachenlabyrinth]

Actually, two hand wielding is explained in the in game tutorial. It's just one of the small details we tend to forget after a while.

[@xomvoid_akaluchiru_987]

That comment about french being an alien, incomprehensible language is so accurate. I love studying french.

[@hardrada_]

The moment I started playing Tunic, I knew there will be a video here about it. Such a masterpiece, the best game I played in years, even though most of the time I'm not into indie titles. Just finished it, loved every minute, but I wasnt smart enough to figure out the "true" ending. After looking up a guide, I feel equal amount of guilt and satifaction. 10/10.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

Guides are extremely overrated when you have communities that can give you subtle hints!

[@Eaguru]

I don't blame you for looking up that final part... Page 9 was so silly

[@AnotherDuck]

@@AJ-uf4sh Assuming you find communities without people who're all to eager to tell you absolutely everything. Especially everything you're doing wrong, but also all spoilers they can think of.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

@@AnotherDuck Not the discord server! The discords for other metroidbrainias such as Outer Wilds and the Witness, along with the subreddits, have communities that like to give subtle hints and guidance. It's to be expected when that's the point of these games, to figure out things on your own as much as possible. People spoiler tag everything that should be.

[@SeventhSolar]

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure there are 0 people in the world that actually managed to do the true ending without some collaboration.

[@mythmakroxymore1670]

Despite the emmi’s flaws… Metroid dread feels more like it’s trying to create tension rather than intrigue. It works, but it’s also not as visceral a feeling. The computer urging you to survive at all costs… at every turn. At every update. At every kiosk. It’s unsettling. But not scary. Ot creates dread, not fear. You dread going into these areas, hoping the worst doesn’t come to pass. But it also feels like the EMMI lives better in its territory. Mr. X though… there is little to no anticipation, no preparation that can be done. He is there so suddenly! It’s scary! But you can just run away from him. It’s the same every time until the final confrontation, and then he’s just chump food. But escaping an EMMI is actually tough, and it’s VISCERAL realizing you have a real chance to escape, and knowing how to escape, you can capitalize on it. Escaping an EMMI is more fun than escaping Mr. X, but encountering Mr. X is more fun than encountering an EMMI.

[@THExRISER]

19:32 Did that horse just fucking drift? What is this masterpiece of a game?

[@garrowpop2965]

This reminds me a lot of Rain World, where it's lack of a tutorial turns it into what I would consider a true survival game when compared to something like minecraft or subnautica. It's lack of telling you what certain objects and creatures do, how much health an enemy has and even just where to go give you this experience of truly being this helpless little creature just trying to survive in the harsh elements of the world around you. And it makes it that much better when you eventually get a handle on the controls and how to actually defend yourself and you reach this sort of "self-actualization" that works very well in tandem with the story

[@sonwig5186]

It took me days to understand what the symbols on the doors meant.

[@calamitydragon6830]

rain world comment :)

[@zzzoom89]

tunic is a great game to backseat. the whole thing about asking people for help is real- i was the co-pilot for my roommie's play, and i kept spotting secrets and puzzles he never realized were puzzles.

[@stevegruber4724]

this is me when my wife plays the LEGO games. i know they're couch co-op, but they don't hold my interest (no shade, they're well made, just not my jam) so i'll watch her play and every once in a while go "oi, what's that shiny over there?"

[@thecompleteanimorph]

I think this might be part of why I really love Metroidvanias even though I'm not very good at them--they do this stuff way more often than most other genres.

[@jamesusher4650]

Finishing the guidebook in tunic and pulling info form all over the place and solving the final puzzle was one of my favorite moments playing a game period. That guidebook is probably my favorite mechanic I've ever seen in a indie game

[@damiankaleomontero496]

Oh no! Woe is me! You’ve spoiled the game! I’ll just have to sit here and boost your metrics now with an angry comment :(

[@Angelica-sq9lh]

I think it's funny how people didn't know how to level up, since I myself discovered it by accident! I was thinking about the items, looking around the manual and then saw that I could do something with them. As I have a fear of losing important items, I burned one of the ones I had a lot of... And them my life increased! So I started burning it all. Hehe Another thing that helped me was a little guide of the basic mechanics of the game. For some reason, I just ignored that you could run and I had mistaken the parry animation with using your shield, I won't even say about using the special by accident and not knowing what I had done. After reading it, I felt absolute shame for not knowing. But now I feel lighter about it, since it helped me and wasn't a game breaking spoiler. Anyway, thanks for the video!

[@ASR6]

2 minutes ago and in my recommendations? LET'S FUCKING GO!!!

[@adragar513]

1:33 As a french guy i was curious what you did put there, but i wasn't expecting that, thank you :)

[@krumblemumble8628]

I love watching people play this game! It definitely seems like it gets them genuinely intrigued that the tutorial booklet is written in a different language. Super fun to see how different people explore the world and some puzzles

[@krumblemumble8628]

*solve puzzles

[@JtothePrez]

The only roadblocks I encountered in Tunic were the mountain door puzzle and the fact I needed to collect some fairies for a page of the manual. I'm kinda disappointed I didn't figure those out myself but I had noticed the clues for the mountain puzzle in the manual I just didn't think they would lead to anything.

[@lazylazerrsp8781]

From the start to finish I couldn't stop thinking about my first experience with videogames that had texts in it. Imagine a kid who grew up on a foreign language being forced to figure out how a game works without being able to read a single thing. Every other game I just knew that the first option in the main menu meant starting a game, then the next was how many players. The frustration was unimaginable. Trying to figure out the objective of the game was challenging enough let alone trying to figure out the next step in a quest such as collecting something or delivery. Don't think I have what it takes to play a game with a fictional language. I might've given it a shot if it were one I might use eventually such as japanese for reading novels.

[@gaben9224]

Up until now I just wrote off Tunic as another random "zelda-inspired indie game that's carried by its art style", without knowing much about it except small gameplay clips and a description. I had no idea it was closer to a soulslike, nor about the whole piecing together information from a manual written in a foreign language thing. That is so unbelievably cool and I'm pissed that I've been told for so long it's just a zelda clone. I seriously need to try Tunic now, thanks for that!

[@recaru0331]

I have to stop midway... Getting the game now, then watching this again after I've played through it

[@Deadflower019]

I think there's one other pitfall that makes obscuring information a risk, and you kind of explained it as a solution. Getting information from outside the game makes the "knowledge as progression" harder to pull off. As cool as those "Even more things you didn't know about in Breath of the Wild part 52" videos are as they show just how many details are in the game, it also goes to show that sometimes games like these just don't tell you enough. Encouraging the player to figure it out for themselves is great and all, but if you don't strike that balance, it can lead to them playing the game on the Wiki. Don't Starve and it's many iterations struggle with this and I'm deliberately avoiding looking things up as I pathetically crawl my way through Risk of Rain 2 because someone in the comment section of a music video said that doing that would ruin the experience. If a game is going to make you figure things out on your own, it NEEDS to give you enough hints so that you want to figure things out on your own. It's like school in a way, where the goal is to learn. You're meant and encouraged to learn, but if you get too frustrated or unmotivated, you end up cheating. The difference is that you *want* to learn a game, but you're taking that away from yourself, which is much worse imo.

[@germen2631]

My first experience with this was through The Witness, and I treasure that game as a major part of my soul. Now I started playing Rain World, reccomended by several friends in a discord server, and in part, I feel like I'm living The Witness all over again. I will definitely get my hands on Tunic now.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

Another metroidbrainia you should look into is Outer Wilds! It even has a dlc!

[@elosyyy]

I would recommend The Talos Principle

[@inky5595]

honestly I wish there would've been given a few more hints about the golden path especially page 9

[@QQ-rx9xp]

A good example of this is all the fun I had figuring out video games before I knew English! Guessing with trial and error can be great, until you become frustratingly stuck.

[@Demonskunk]

I mean, the reason you'd know there's a Sprint button in Super Metroid is because there's an instruction manual, same as Tunic. Also I think there's an in-game mention of it if you go to the screen that lets you change your controls around.

[@caseypatterson1477]

I just started playing Tunic and I'd say I've got just far enough to not have anything spoiled. I'd found the dagger and leveled up, but seeing you blow open the wall towards the end really got me. Now I've got to go around blowing everything up.

[@AnotherDuck]

It's like the original Zelda: bomb every wall, burn every bush.

[@devlinmcguire7543]

I am literally the first person here, and I don't care that much.

[@devlinmcguire7543]

Can you give me a heart for my speedy action? XD

[@ArchitectofGames]

@@devlinmcguire7543 no

[@devlinmcguire7543]

@@ArchitectofGames _I like the way you think..._ Keep that up!

[@devlinmcguire7543]

@@hexagod1313 XD Thanks for pointing that out. I actually didn't notice it right away.

[@luisgondim8283]

The thing about finding itens is funny. I completed the game and just after thta, when I was looking for lore content and stuff I realized that I never find the Shotgun and the sand clock, and I still have no clue on where to find it hahaha. But the point is, it was a hell of a funny experience even without those itens, that weren't really necessary but are just very cool, and I felt like I had explored every inch of that world, and it was nice to see that the game's world was even deeper than I thought

[@JandreLom]

I always find watching your videos gives me a craving to try out all the games you mention or cover and it has had the benefit of deepening my understanding of video games as a whole and has introduced me to some new genres that I never new I would like so much. On the other hand because of that craving I end up not spending as much time with some games and get distracted by new shiny games. It's a bit of a double edge sword but I'm always having fun because of it

[@Ender-vx8zq]

Ive certainly hit that wall of not knowing how to progress. In hollow knight, i got stuck after mothwing cloak because I didnt know how to use the purple mushrooms. I tried to do some fancy parkour, bouncing on them without hitting with my sword, but never realized that you needed to pogo them to get height. I eventually gave up on the game until I watched a KZbinr pogo the mushrooms, felt a great deal of pain for not seeing that, then proceeded to finish the game, where it now sits as one of my all-time-favorites. I love hollow knight's lack of tutorial, but a better explanation of pogoing would have been greatly appreciated.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

You can't get any better of an explanation than the mushrooms repelling you when you hit them in front of you.

[@MrChipathenIsMyDoggo]

It’s always an exciting day whenever Adam randomly shows up out of nowhere to give us another game design lesson Edit: I still can’t believe my comment got a heart from my favorite KZbinr. I got a massive boost to my ego when I saw that Thank you so much Adam :D

[@JDKDKDLDKDKDKDKKKDERYY]

bruh

[@glumbortango7182]

Word of warning: hearts disappear if you edit the comment. Sorry for your loss.

[@MrChipathenIsMyDoggo]

@@glumbortango7182 oof

[@vanderkarl3927]

(spoilers) It's a shameless Legend of Zelda rip-off that is actually a shameless Dark Souls rip-off that is actually a shameless FEZ rip-off that is actually a shameless The Witness rip-off, all to distract you from The Eyes of the Far Shore.

[@AutumnReel4444]

Everyone is different, so I don't begrudge people not figuring out how to level up, but the manual has 3-4 pictures of the altar on the page in question. Seemed pretty clear, but everyone is different.

[@grahamross889]

My friend and me just finished tunic, I didn't play the game he did and I helped by learning the language just so I could understand pages and then tell him about it.and understanding the puzzles. Also the puzzles are great

[@lunasophia9002]

I have heard of folks playing Tunic for the first time who *missed the manual completely*. They never picked it up, didn't know it was a thing. Beyond the poor experience they had with the game as a result, there's another knock-on effect: there's no way to address this without spoiling yourself. That's a _horrible_ problem and shouldn't be possible. Maybe the developers are trying to support speedrunners or something, but on your first playthrough it really should do something to prevent this.

[@sleepfulwillow]

how do you miss all the pages? a lot are right in your path at the start of the game too

[@AJ-uf4sh]

Imma call bs on that as well, you clearly don't know what you're saying. You have to intentionally not pick up stuff.

[@Player-jh4ko]

@@AJ-uf4sh Not necessarily. A good few people miss the manuals lmao... 😂

[@Player-jh4ko]

@@sleepfulwillow Not always...

[@AJ-uf4sh]

@@Player-jh4ko Then that's just willful ignorance, you can't help with that

[@Evitrea]

I always had a feeling that this game is hiding something big in plain sight but I really wasn't expect it to be The Witness

[@LInktheherooftime999]

Just started tunic yesterday. Leaving a like, I’ll be back when I finish.

[@lalfada9637]

ohhh there is a sprint button in metroid… indeed a big pitfall. Great video btw

[@manamaster6]

I didn't use the magic dagger at first because of the number 3 at the bottom, I thought it was a limited item like the firecrackers, as nothing that used mana (or however the blue bar is called) had been present in the game until that point, so I was afraid of running out of uses for an important moment.

[@brutusmagnuson315]

One thing I like to do is have controls listed and found easily so someone can read a command and think “Cool! I can do that?” And then try it. Especially if they hit an enemy that kills player who don’t know how to use said thing

[@Ringcaat]

My experience was very different. I stopped playing after half an hour because I was so incredibly frustrated with the controls (and not knowing how to use them). And having no idea what the plot was. I felt like I *was* dropped in blind. Maybe now that I know *running* is possible, I'll try again.

[@magnum567134]

5:44. I didn't do any of that😐. I randomly found it by just wandering around and exploring every nook and cranny. It was pretty helpful in the first boss fight. I'm just now starting to get the hang of using the map and manual

[@user-or4ut2qi3q]

Oddworld Abe's Oddyssey did something like this too. Surprised you didn't mention it actually!

[@dondashall]

This approach is great for people who like it. The problem I have with this "we won't provide a tutorial, you'll figure it out by playing" approach is that it depends on me actually figuring it out. And I've played quite a few games where I haven't and then you are just stuck in frustration and inaccessibility and that's far worse for a game in my opinion than a game that overexplains because I will eventually get out of the overexplaining. For sure, people who want to figure things out entirely on its own (and depending on the game sometimes I'm in that category) should be able to disable more direct tutorials if they want to, but they should still be there for people who want and need them.

[@randomguy6679]

A game that’s okay for everyone is special for no one.

[@dondashall]

@@randomguy6679 That has nothing to do with tutorial design.

[@randomguy6679]

@@dondashall I know, but it has everything to do with prioritizing a unique experience over an overly sanitized one. Something we need in this day and age more often.

[@R.Eres-Queen]

Interesting, I think these the first game analysis that actually convinced me to buy a game. These sounds like the kind of game I would love to play, I am going to buy it today.

[@aaronpaul5990]

Getting just the right level of information is a bit tricky and as such its more work that some/a lot of devs avoid but it can make a game so much more worth it. However there is a thing called information overload ... RPGs commonly have it for me when the second level is a big city that you know you have to explore every corner off in case you miss something. (looking at you Torment: Tides of Numenera) so ... you can literally drive people away by giving them to many mysteries at once.

[@LunarBulletDev]

An Adam Millard video is like a sweet candy, makes you happy when you get a new one and its quite enjoyable

[@994playz]

That thumbnail made me think you were talking bout epic battle fantasy 5 (because it looked like it had no-legs on it)

[@TheNotSneakyNinjaa]

What if instead of watching the video, I stopped 30 seconds in and take your 20 minute long video as a glowing recommendation to go in blind. See you back in 6 months once I beat it

[@danielmyles2312]

Did you beat it?

[@nautil_us]

Just finished watching the transparency video of this game and now this shows up!! Lovely coincidence

[@horserage]

The transparency video? Got a link?

[@ArchitectofGames]

@@horserage kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIrSi6Voab-il9E Here you go, it's great!

[@horserage]

@@ArchitectofGames Cheers! Same to Eva.

[@EggBastion]

@@ArchitectofGames blazin

[@Transparencyboo]

👀

[@ChrisLeeW00]

Ive manually decoded the secret writing from a lot of parts of Tunic, and for the most part, it didn’t seem like super necessary information, but it meant more because I had to dig to find it.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

It's so cool when you eventually don't need to rely upon your notes and can just translate off the bat

[@std-ci4ws]

Xenoblade 2 does not constantly disrupt gameplay with tutorial, mostly when there is actually something new, and the game introduces new systems even at the last chapter. It's the lack of a true tutorial system that is bad, only being able to inform players via much text and no interaction, presumably due to poor game framework design.

[@Pannedcakes-90]

I'd also say that MMOs can also pull off the community explained mechanics with their mechanics. Using Destiny as an example of one that does that well and horribly. With raids, you have vibrant communities that guide new players through encounters where nothing is explained by the developers. Sure the latest raid does use Nintendo's emergent mechanic techniques to ease in new mechanics, but the entire raid only uses text to give players feedback on if they did good or bad without any context. Conversely, the game also never tells you how the player economy works and how multiple years worth of iterations interact.

[@Andreopimentel]

I was hoping you would mention the Super metroid moment when you learn that you could wall jump from the start of the game. One of the best gaming moments IMO

[@HunterShad]

Wee, ze Franch, woud lick too sank you fore your appréciation, Monsieur Millard

[@sentry3118]

Just beat TUNIC for the first time. Absolutely wonderful! I'd say I did 95% of it by myself, but I did need to look up a couple puzzle bits where I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do :P Definitely one of my favorite games now.

[@flying-sheep]

The things I looked up was 1. “how to upgrade your stats” like mentioned in the video and 2. a few golden cross paths that I couldn’t be arsed to transcribe (like the water reflections. I got the idea, I just don’t want to do the work to transcribe it)

[@AndrewGrosso]

5:04 I felt that one!

[@hedgehogmorph7248]

Also Tunic managed to pull off a quite dramatic plotline using no words. Showing not telling one of the couple most meaningful downfalls of past civilization -- turning upside down what you know about an element of environment. Like when you're flipping a switch -- what does that mean for a switch

[@cbldv1330]

great stuff as always my friend

[@noface7842]

...Tunic is just the spiritual successor to Toki Tori 2

[@ZCSilver]

Not being able to read the text is enough I will never play this, just like I will never play any of the games that don't release in english.

[@AJ-uf4sh]

Not being able to read it is the whole point... You work off the contextual clues in the manual and the bits of English provided.

[@The4stro]

ok you just made me go and play tunic

[@WastelandPuppy]

So, this isn't a Zelda clone, but Edgy Zelda in disguise as Zelda, got it.

[@ThePC007]

19:00 Wait, isn't that Knight Fall? The game was free on Steam for a while, but I missed it. It looks really cool, though. :(

[@AnotherDuck]

After completing this game recently, there were two things I looked up without solving it myself. Some of the exact card functions, and how to get the "thank you for playing" message. I did check up some stuff, but that was just checking stuff and stopping once I realised I was on the right path, before I actually learned anything new from whatever source it was. Sometimes finding out that you're not in some random unrelated rabbit hole of a dead end is enough. The most satisfying puzzle to solve was the Golden Path, including the best feeling of getting a simple collectible you've gotten many times before. There are puzzles following it, but I didn't find those to be nearly as satisfying. Learning the language was fun too, just on its own, but I like puzzles. Although not to the extend of solving the very last one related to that.

[@aneonfoxtribute]

Yeah I agree a lot with your takeaway on the issues of this kind of design. That's actually one of the things I hate most in games. I hate not being told important mechanics. It's one of my biggest issues with FromSoft'a games, for instance. Every game has that one resource or that one stat, like Humanity in Dark Souls 1 or Insight in Bloodborne, that the game doesn't really try explaining despite being its most unique stat. And I just hate seeing this giant thing on my stats screen that I just don't know what it does. I know I can use Humanity to Kindle the bonfire, but I don't know what that means. Yeah I can look it up on Google, but these are important mechanics and I shouldn't need to look them up. I could test what Kindling does, but as someone uninitiated I was afraid to do that. What if Humanity is important? What if this wastes it? What if I have a limited supply?

[@zelatoth]

I'm fine with information being withheld unless it's mechanics in which case I just get annoyed and end up just not playing anymore or looking up the info. I'm 34, I have a fulltime job. Stop Wasting My Time!

[@MidnightSt]

so... we're finally getting to the point where my design of a puzzle game, where learning and understanding even the basic game mechanics by trial and error is the main gameplay loop, where a game like this would be able to succeed?

[@styltbyxa]

Actually, this game is a ripoff of Death's Door, which is an isometric ripoff of Dark Souls. It's a double ripoff. It doesn't really have any redeaming qualities. It's vanilla trying to be blander than the vanilla it's ripping off.

[@DouglasBurton]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Outer Wilds. The whole game is basically about knowledge being the only tool you need. It's one I always wish I could wipe from my memory so I can play it again. One trick they used to avoid players missing pieces of knowledge was to sprinkle the info in multiple places, hoping that you would eventually find one of the places that would teach you what you need to know. *edit* Ah nvm, I saw you mentioned that you purposely avoided Outer Wilds. It's never too much to keep mentioning a great game that didn't have a massive ad campaign, please inspire some copycats and more sales.

[@benderthefourth3445]

I hope what was done and demonstrated with Tunic gets into developers minds. For sure the game is inspiring tons of people and many indie developers will implements similar ideas. But what I hope is a sort of general cultural shift! I hope big developers take notice that we love to discover things, it doesn't need to be "Zelda like" games. We love to discover stuff in general. I've been bothered by game design tendency of over explaining everything. For example: interacting with the environment often is made with a designed button, once you find out, why we need an icon all the time throughout the entire game? Then, who loves objects with and RGB color outline that takes you away from the immersion? Minimaps showing everything, arrows telling you where to go... Icons on NPCs heads telling you who to talk to... too much. We need a new era of game design.

[@Schregger]

IDK, I think it still would have been swell if the Trunic in Tunic was able to be translated into something readable without a translation guide.