EPIC: Does the Epistle of James disagree with Paul? | Andrew Farley

Join us here for our morning service at The Grace Church. This morning, our pastor Andrew Farley presents the next message in our series, “EPIC: High-Impact Truths in the New Testament.” Below are discussion questions inspired by the message on James 2:
(1) What have you heard that “faith without works is dead” means?
(2) How many times did Abraham offer Isaac? Why is this significant in understanding the meaning of “works” here?
(3) How many times did Rahab open the door? Why is this significant in understanding the meaning of “works” here?
(4) Are the works that Abraham and Rahab did works of the Law? Or are they simply responses of faith to the message of God? Why is this important to understand?
(5) Read verse 23. Do you think that James understood salvation by faith? Why or why not?
(6) If James understood salvation by faith, then what is he trying to say about living faith that saves versus the dead faith of demons?
(7) Have you offered yourself to God? Have you opened the door to Him? In this way, have you met the requirement of James 2? If so, what does this mean for your assurance of salvation?
(8) Why is it a slippery slope to say that James did not understand grace yet wrote an epistle in the New Testament? What position does that put us in as readers and “judges” of the New Testament letters?
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[@joyfulinourblessedhope2323]

Excellent! Thank you so much for this teaching @Dr Andrew Farley. Yes, i have very recently (last week) heard someone with a big following, teaching that "James did not understand grace". I listened to their teaching and came away even more confused. But God has drawn me to your teaching @Dr Andrew Farley and I am thankful that i have heard this. My eyes are opened and Im praying that those who are turning around accusing James will hear this and also for the many in the churches that think James was talking about works of the Law, i pray that this message (teaching) will reach them. If you are reading this, let us share this teaching to all our brothers and sisters in Christ. God bless you all. ❤️✝️

[@aaronmotsa9846]

Amen amen amen ❤❤❤❤❤ I love your ministry hallelujah 🙌 Watching from South Africa

[@lookinguntoJesus3.16]

Thank you, Brother/ Dr. Adrew, In the last couple of days, I was contemplating on James chapter 2, I thank God for the Holy Spirit thought me in a way I have never thought about it before, and although I was absolutely convinced about the new understanding He gave me, just to be sure I went into your web to check if you have said anything about it. And I was so glad when I found you have, for listing to your message has confirmed to me the new understanding I was given by the Spirit of God is in line with God's good news message to set free sinners who cannot be free from in any other way! Here is how I understood James chapter 2. When we begin to read verse 14 which says "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him"? The confusion, not knowing that the required work I am expected to do is to believe in the savior's name and what He has done to redeem/save me and live in my whole life believing in that! Nothing else. Just as exactly and nicely you explained it by saying "... your response to Jesus at salvation was more than accepting theological facts. You actually opened the door of your life to Christ and offered yourself to God. Now that’s living faith"! This understanding of James 2:14 not only agrees to the gospel messages of the Lord Jesus Himself and all the apostles' message throughout the New Testament, but it is also perfectly in line with all other Biblical truth beginning with Genesis 2:16-17! - What the law of Genesis 2:16-17 required from Adam and Eve was not to eat from the forbidden fruit. - The test to Abraham which James 2:21 is referring to in which he was justified by work was to offer his only son Isaac! - The works Rahab the harlot was justified by which James 2:25 referring to, was her action based on which we read written in Jeshua 2:1-21 - In the very same manner since according to John 3:16-18 the required expected work of the Law of faith to salvation is "to have faith or to believe in Christ Jesus", he/she who believe in Him is justified by work of obedient to believe in Him! I believe this is also true and in line not only with what the Lord Jesus said in John 6:29, but what the apostle Paul also said in Romans 8:2-4.

[@angesomdebesu8447]

Thank you Jesus for the life of Dr Andrew Farley !!!

[@joyfulinourblessedhope2323]

Amen 🙌

[@redpill77-q8m]

Fantastic - thank you

[@mikeguedry1711]

Good mornin everyone. God bless y'all. From Kirbyville, Texas 😃 👋

[@beckirzepka68]

Thank you Dr. Farley! I finally understand James!!!

[@ClintByars]

Good distinction

[@katkirker8754]

Hi Andrew Farley and The Grace Church! Ontario Canada 🍁 🕊💕🪽🥰📖👋🎶

[@Keeter904]

21:50 James 2 : 1 4 (ESV) states: "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" Let's define the word “save” as originally written. This passage should have been written, “Can that faith restore life to him?” or "Can his faith resurrect him?" .

[@davidrathbun1345]

James gave Paul the right hand of fellowship agreement at the council of Jerusalem…

[@eddienegrino8348]

Dont bite that, if you have faith and the holy spirit we have the kindness of God. Simple.

[@markpalfenier5851]

Good morning

[@Keeter904]

20:08 do the Epistles apply to us? The authors of the New Testament couldn't fathom the thought that their words would be canonized into the Holy Scriptures. We should ask ourselves, “why did they write those letters?” These were not “at large” teachings to the church as we so often call them today. There were small assemblies surrounding the Mediterranean region that had been introduced to the gospel sometime earlier but were experiencing confusion over some particular matter that somehow reached the author's ears. Those authors would pin their letters to help clarify their questions and concerns. We were not privy to the questions or concerns that made their way to the authors. We are only reading one half of a conversation. Again, do they apply to us? Yes, if we clearly understand the problems that these individual assemblies were experiencing? If we do not, these letters do not apply to us and should be ignored. These letters, particularly from Paul, have caused a tremendous amount of confusion. To help make this point, Peter gave a very clear warning that Paul's words are hard to understand and will be twisted. "There are some things in them (Paul's letters) that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." (2 Peter 3:16, ESV)

[@steven_bridgers]

There’s only one Bible teacher on line that I’ve heard talk about James not understanding Grace and that his messages is contradicted by Paul. I really like this teacher’s teaching, but I’m not able to get on board with his message on the book of James. Dr. Farley, on the other hand, offers a much more sensible teaching.

[@JesusJoyJourney]

Faith without Christs work doesn't give life.

[@eddienegrino8348]

Are faith is obedient to Gods word in all aspects.

[@Keeter904]

16:59 to interpret Paul correctly I will paraphrase. "For whoever keeps the law believing that keeping the law is their REASON for salvation..." We are not saved by attempting to keep the law. However, that does not mean we should not desire to be obedient. We are never going to be completely obedient which brings up Grace. When it is our desire to be obedient and we fail our heavenly father extends Grace just as we do with our children. The Almighty tells us "to be holy" for he is holy. We are saved by grace but we are expected to live a HOLY life. The Almighty tells us how to live a holy life.... His Law or more correctly stated as his loving instructions. To understand his instructions is to understand him. No, when Paul and James talk about "works of the law" they are talking about the man-made traditions that the Jewish leadership demanded that the people keep claiming that it was the Almighty's law. When they speak of "good works" they are describing the Almighty's law.

[@antoniochaves-osas9455]

Acts 21:18-28 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James;👈 and all the elders were present. And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of (Jews) there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:👈 And they are informed of thee, (Paul) that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to 👉forsake Moses,👈 saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee (paul), are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and 👉keepest the law.👈 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. 👆 Clearly Paul and James were not on the same page right here. I'm not saying that James was not saved but he sure didn't understand grace like Paul did, at the time atleast. In first Corinthians chapter 9, Paul says that he becomes all things to all men just so that he could save some of them. This means he does not have to be in agreement with them. He understood the assignment Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

[@DonHamlin]

In these passages we can clearly see that James fully believed that Jewish believers still needed to follow the law of Moses. He also cherry picked a few dietary and behavioral laws from the 613 to impose on the Gentile believers. In addition he declared Paul’s teaching to the Jewish believers among the Gentiles that they didn’t need to be circumcised, etc. to be “nothing”.

[@Anon-0-Mouse]

Paul reveals that he and James agreed on the gospel in Galatians. Additionally, there is no mention of a dispute about what the gospel was between Paul and James in Acts 15.

[@johnyang1420]

RCIA

[@samt7785]

As Christians we should put our energy in defending the teaching of Grace not defending the Cannon. The Cannon is very impressive but not perfect. We are sounding like God dictated the Cannon which is not true. We still have freedom to see the Cannon critically and toss some Scriptures out of it.

[@staza1]

Pastor Farley, you are straw manning. No one is claiming James isn't saved, yet you spend half the sermon trying to prove that he is a believer and is saved. Literally no one is suggesting otherwise. What we are saying is that at the time James wrote his epistle, he did not understand Grace fully yet. He wrote his epistle before the council where he finally started to agree with Paul and understanding that there was no place for works in the true gospel of Grace. It is so obvious that James and Paul contradicted each other in their letters

[@godsson384]

Yeap him trying to protect James got him contradicting himself because he even said people can be saved and not fully understand the gospel lol

[@staza1]

I strongly disagree with Paster Farley on this one. He doesn't seem to consider that there are many instances of people in the Bible who did not fully understand all of God's truth, at least not at the time they are writing. Some of them learned the truth over time. Some of them had the truth and then fell into sin, like Solomon. But God kept Solomon's words in the Bible, even though many of them are wrong. Just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it's true. For example, Solomon says that he can only find one in a thousand good men, but not a single, good woman. Perhaps God left us in the Bible to teach us that even a man of wisdom. If he falls into sin, like how Solomon had 700 wives, then God will confuse that person and there will be great consequences for him and all those around him. In the same way, James did not fully understand. Grace, the same way Peter did not at first. James was one of the first books ever written in the New testament. It was written before the council where James finally came to understand Paul's message of true free Grace. Paul goes to Great lengths to explain how James and his judaizers tried to steal their freedom in Christ by telling them they had to get circumcised and obey the Moses law. So clearly James was confused. There's no doubt about that. Later at the council, James came to understand. Grace. If only we had an epistle written by James later in his life after he came to understand Grace. To say that James and Paul do not contradict is a hopeless cause and only confuses the brethren even more. We need to find a better explanation than this sort of mental gymnastics.

[@markpalfenier5851]

So, if you take that stance, that means that whatever James said in chapter two, if it is wrong because he learned grace later, then chapter 1 and chapter 3 advice and encouragements are not valid and false also. So you are then saying the whole book of James is invalid and if that is the case you are in agreement with Martin Luther that the book of James should not be in the cannon as a book inspired by the Holy Spirit. You pick and chose what part of the book is valid and what not . Either you accept James as truth in its entirety or as a pack of lies in its entirety.

[@Anon-0-Mouse]

I'm sorry, friend, that's inaccurate. We don't really know when James was exactly written. And I disagree with your interpretation of that book. And there is no record of a conflict between James and Paul. In fact, Paul says in Galatians that James extended him the right hand of fellowship during the Council of Jerusalem. Plus, there is no record of a conflict between Paul and James at the Council. Paul does write that Peter was influenced by some men that came from James, but that does not mean that James sent them to tell Peter to stop associating with gentiles. It is entirely probable that those judaizers came to the apostles in Jerusalem and asked them why they were doing what they were doing and they told them about the vision that Peter had. And then they immediately went to Peter to check it out.

[@Anon-0-Mouse]

Additionally, when Paul laid out the gospel that he knew in Acts 15, there is no record of the apostles having to deliberate or discuss it or having a disagreement. They just agreed that it was the same gospel they were preaching.

[@staza1]

​@@markpalfenier5851 Got it. So you believe that everything everyone wrote in the scriptures is true. So as I mentioned, when Solomon said he can find one in a thousand good men, but not a single woman, is that true? Or when Solomon says that money is the solution to all problems. Is that a truth we should live by? Bible fundamentalists look at the Bible like an idol. I know you want to think that God wrote the Bible with lightning on Rock. But he didn't. He chose to use humans. But God gave us a brain to figure it out and discern what he's trying to say through those imperfect humans. He revealed his truth over time. Progressively.

[@staza1]

​​@@Anon-0-Mouse Yes, it's also possible that the inner core of the Moon is made of cheese, but we have to use common sense. Paul made a point to explain that James and his judaizers were the ones trying to steal Paul's freedom in Christ by teaching that they must still follow the laws of Moses. So you think it's just a coincidence that Paul says that, and then here James is teaching the exact opposite of Paul, that we are not saved through faith alone? James literally says, we are not saved by faith alone. So what you are doing is just mental gymnastics to try and make James and Paul agree. They don't agree. So you need to reevaluate your understanding and come up with an explanation that makes sense. My explanation at least makes sense. Yours does not. And I did agree that at the council, James did understand Grace. But go look it up and you'll see that most scholars agree that The Epistle of James was the first book written in the New testament, before the council. Just like Peter thought that all gentiles were unclean and God had to reveal it to him in a dream to not call them unclean anymore anymore. That was after spending years with Jesus himself! So even after spending time with Jesus, before and after his death, Peter still didn't understand that Grace was also given to gentiles. So God was revealing it over time progressively. What is so hard to accept about that ?

[@daletrade5178]

took ages to get to the point. Also bit weal argument

[@daletrade5178]

bit weak