How the extinction of a species affected whiskey production

History was different 150 years ago when passenger pigeons blotted out the sun. This episode remembers oaks, pigeons and a forgotten era.
The History Guy uses media that are in the public domain. As photographs of actual events are sometimes not available, photographs of similar objects and events are used for illustration.
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The episode is intended for educational purposes. All events are portrayed in historical context.
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[@tymurrell]

“Even the forests blush a different color...” I so enjoy the little moments of poetry you incorporate into your videos!

[@gazelam]

My thoughts exactly. You sir are a very good writer in addition to being a very good historian.

[@vanleeuwenhoek]

My thoughts exactly. Because history has to be transmitted through time, it requires those skilled at writing and narrating it. This is exemplary history in that regard. Beautiful prose and yet doleful content.

[@dalewysinger3077]

While in school, I hated history. As I grew older, I realized that they didn't teach history as it needed to be taught. I have since fallen in love with history; and am thankful that I discovered your channel. Thank you for sharing history as it was meant to be shared!

[@karinasan7825]

​@Joshua Ball I think it depends on the individual, thats an unfair comment, lol. I've always loved history from any perspective or angle because you can see the invisible links that interconnect us all. It's amazing. Some people just become interested later in life.

[@ChuckBoris3]

The one thing I used to hate were dates. I loved history, I could tell you who was there, what they were doing, everything. But for the life of me I couldn't memorize the date it happened. As you can imagine, this caused a lot of trouble. I was always good at anything other than math. That's why I accelerated at Chemistry. Because you could use a calculator. It wasn't the formulas or the concepts that would have held me back, it was the math. Numbers just don't compute. Now on paper that might make me look stupid. In general the education system is a system of memorization. That doesn't prove understanding of the concepts.

[@sherlockbonez]

Same. I have a degree in science but watch history vids all the time now that i am older.

[@MichaelGoydich63]

Ditto

[@donnisraines]

@@ChuckBoris3It’s not getting any better.

[@huntercarter5426]

“Even the forests today blush a different color” That was beautiful. Thumbs up. 👍

[@chrismcnichol3243]

It really was.

[@bradjbourgeois73]

That caught my ear too, pure poetry!

[@BornIn1500]

@Craig G Funny how the doomers of climate change never mention how the frigid North, such as Canada, will benefit from a slightly warmer climate. Their biodiversity will drastically increase, biomass will increase, there will be new opportunities for farming, and more people will be able to live there. But of course, the truth needs to be censored because the left has an agenda and it's all mass hysteria and doom & gloom to them in order to push their new political policies to raise taxes and gain more control over the populace. It should be a red flag to any logical person when the government pushes climate change as 100% negative. Wake up and educate yourself.

[@paintedwings74]

I'm one of the extremely few people in the US who eat acorns in the traditional way, by cold-leaching to remove tannins, and grinding into flour, which is then used to thicken soup, make bread, and mix into other recipes. One of the impacts of not having passenger pigeons around is that most oak trees have a heavy infestation of curculio grubs, which eat the acorn meat, grow fat, and then (after the acorn falls to the ground) burrow into the soil to mature into curculio beetles. When pigeons ate these acorns and essentially cleared the forest floor of all the mast every year, not too many curculios managed to make it into the soil. Once the acorns were left to sit for weeks or even a year, pretty much all of the curculios survived. If you're not a squirrel, turkey, oak, or deer, you don't care in the least that 90% of the acorns are ruined by these grubs. So no one really notices the issue; except for those of us who forage acorns. For the past four years, I've been "grooming" my favorite two trees every year; repeatedly going back to clear the ground of all acorns, good ones that look full of good meat, and ones that are obviously afflicted by fungus or infested with grubs. With no grubs leaving the acorns to burrow into the soil beneath these trees, their numbers have dropped dramatically, so that at this point, no more than a third of the acorns have to be discarded because of curculio grubs. I wonder what other animals are affected by this one tiny quirk of science-ecology-history, the population boom of acorn-beetle grubs?

[@pohldriver]

I got interested a few months ago in nut gathering a few months ago when I found acorns all over at a truck scale area in MD. I stupidly cracked one open and realized I should not have done that. The bitterness made me think it could be poisonous and spit it out. You'd think after almost eating hemlock thinking it was wild carrot I would have learned to do a little more research before eating foraged foods. After finding that they are just acorns and need the tannins removed I gathered a can full of them and put them near the floor vent of my semi to dry them. Most appear to have cracked and the meat has shrunk. Some are golden, some with hard dark spot, some are brown, and some are coal black but still with a soft texture. Now I have no idea if the color means anything other than tannin level or if they are bad.

[@AngiesCousin]

This has nothing to do with acorns, pigeons or oak trees but if you ever get a minute, look up the video "How Wolves Changed Rivers". So neat! Also, I absolutely want to learn about using acorns for food. I heard they were so bitter. Can this be done with the giant acorns as well as the small?

[@SeattleScotty]

If it's feasible, you could also try putting some landscape bark under the trees. If they aren't sitting directly on the ground there will be less risk of bugs and such coming up from below as well.

[@occipitalneuralgia2339]

Rl Badger Malathion, for garden vegetables carries warnings on its labels such as “Exposure to high amounts of malathion on food or in the air or water can cause serious side effects, such as difficulty breathing, vomiting, stomach pain, diarrhea, eye irritation, sweating, dizziness, headaches, loss of consciousness, and possibly death.” Label warnings also specify different size applications depending on certain vegetables or plants. Acorns will not be in that list, so what type of or size of application would you apply in this case? You would have to apply to the nuts as they form on the trees, because various insects bore into and lay eggs while the nut is in a green state growing on the tree. Thus, one would need a cherry picker and a sprayer to reach all areas of a mature oak tree. It does not sound realistic for the average forager, or naturalist. Waiting until the nuts fall to the ground is too late. Acorns will have squirrel damage, and of course larva, inside already; or, frass and an exit hole. “Frass” are insect droppings. You do not kill the larva, you need to stop the egg depositing process from the very beginnings. Many kinds of insects utilize acorns for incubation chambers.

[@occipitalneuralgia2339]

paintedwings74 I have tried the process of multiple leaching and turning acorns into flour. Boy, it is labor intensive in my opinion and not worth it. I will leave the nuts to the wildlife who sorely need them during brutal winter months. I will continue with foraging other natural plants, seeds and nuts though. Many Koreans and other Asians in the USA collect and process acorns for food. Native Americans in the northeastern regions also did, as well as traded acorns and the flour with other tribes. There are Koran restaurants near me that serve acorn dishes in the restaurant! One is a jelly type main dish served with rice. The jelly is an interesting grey beige color. Acorn flour can also be bought in Asian grocery stores too.

[@jdemo7167]

I had no clue of the symbiotic relationship between the passenger pigeon and the white oak. Awestruck!

[@Mujangga]

"Nothing is forever" -- Graffiti, on the a wall in Pompeii.

[@Burden-THE]

A popular saying "diamonds are forever" is almost taken as factual for many people. Turns out, not even diamonds are forever, as the carbon, which almost entirely makes up diamonds, bonds with oxygen, becoming carbon dioxide. Though slow, entropy even affects diamonds!

[@garethbaus5471]

@@Burden-THE that dousnt happen at room temperature at a rate worth thinking about.

[@mikecastellon4545]

American Indian : only the rocks live forever

[@censusgary]

Maybe only graffiti lasts forever?

[@matthewgauthier7251]

Another of ancient graffiti bemoaning disrespect of teenagers was found as well.

[@marcgilbert1497]

"A time when we looked at the sky instead of our cell phones" how sad but very true. Another excellent presentation. Well done and thank you.

[@martletkay]

You type as you look at a screen to watch this

[@pmchamlee]

Fortunately, your use of KZbin has reached far more folks than you could have ever hoped to reach via teaching or the written word. I, for one, am most grateful to you for 'keeping history alive!

[@aegisofhonor]

the death of the last passenger pigeon was ominous. Barely a coupe months prior, war started to erupt in Europe and an entire way of life ended right then and there. You can mark the year 1914 as a big turning point in world history, and the passing of the passenger pigeon was a sign that things were about to change dramatically from the time before and the time after the passing of the last passenger pigeon.

[@emmettturner9452]

Paused it at 11 seconds. As soon as you said “Martha” the first time, I knew this was about Passenger Pigeons. :)

[@annegoodreau4925]

This is really incredible background. As I live in Vermont foliage is a big deal around here. I had no idea what the effect of the loss of the passenger pigeon did to our world. Thank you for making us aware.

[@TheElnots]

I've heard the passenger pigeon story before but not told in this way including the oaks. Very interesting and sad.

[@martletkay]

I've heard in other videos and articles that losing passenger pigeons also massively increased the population of rats and mice which moved in to eat the acorns and nuts the birds once ate, and with them they brought diseases and a far, far worse crop pest than pigeons ever were. I mean, pigeons never chewed through your home and sh*t in your food and bed, and the pigeons didn't breed literally constantly. That hand in hand with shooting all the hawks and owls as "pest birds", it made made for rodent paradise. Humans are so stupid, honestly, making the same dumb choices over and over out of greed and ease, and over and over we're soooooo surprised when things just keep on getting more out of balance and worse.

[@huntnwabbits8150]

I can hear it know from 150 years ago: " Damn pigeons poop'n all over my wagon, my horse and my wife....just damn!"

[@GrinderCB]

Second time I've watched this video. As a whiskey lover I'm fascinated about how seemingly unrelated things can be related. Last spring we went to the Cincinnati Zoo and I saw Martha in person. They have a very understated display of how flocks of Passenger Pigeons once darkened the skies and how they came to be hunted to extinction. They have lots of photos of how they cared for Martha in her last days and how they went to extreme lengths to try to find a mate.

[@indy_go_blue6048]

I was 11 in the winter of 1962 when Life Magazine published an article called "The Passing of the Passenger Pigeon." I'd never heard of this bird before. I read, reread and reread the article again and again. It broke my heart that this lovely creature was hunted to extinction because of the gluttony of humans. At the end they tried to protect what remained of the great flocks but it was too late; the pigeons needed those great flocks to propagate the species and though there were still thousands, it was too small a number and ultimately it came down to Martha. A sad sad story.

[@dbmail545]

What a passionate intro! What most don't understand about the passenger pigeons' demise is that they only bred in large flocks. A pair simply would not breed in the absence of thousands of their cousins. "Martha" refused all attempts by males to breed with her without her flock immediately close by.

[@johnjaso3281]

Exactly!!! They were "social birds". No friends, no relatives, no love, no more reproductive activity. End of a species😢so sad, so discussing, so awful, etc....

[@shemp308]

History that should not only be remembered but known. I have read about this but never heard it told do well! Excellent job.

[@CoreyMillionaire2029]

I agree.

[@CSmart-ln1qm]

You truly waxed eloquent in this presentation, and I loved your phrase, "even the forests blush a different color."

[@maryellenmcgowan3992]

I have always loved history. I especially appreciate back stories that dont make to he textbooks. And I live in Philadelphia where history is all around. So glad I found your site.

[@Ruffway64]

Another great video! This Canadian 55yr old is happy to have you as my history teacher.

[@Artur_M.]

I would never expect that the most fascinating video on this channel for me (yet) will be about pigeons! Seriously, as a European I was only vaguely familiar with the passenger pigeon and their extinction, therefore almost everything was new and surprising.

[@r.a.monigold9789]

I'm R. Arthur M. and you're Arthur M. and we are next to each other in "line" here. Small world if you look close enough...

[@keredrellit3992]

I absolutely and completely concur!

[@dannynicastro3207]

Kered Rellit ...I concur with the well known fact and opinions that I think we all share here...and that is that this channel is GREAT!!!😃😄

[@paulmentzer7658]

There is a debate on what killed off the Passenger Pigeon. The alternative theory is based on facts known about the Passenger Pigeons. First is that Passenger Pigeons liked to nest in Tall Mature Virgin Forests right beside open meadows. Thus the Passenger Pigeon was rare till after about 1820. You start to get reports of them as trees are cut down for farmlands but other trees are not, for it was more profitable to cut down trees on land that were close to rivers or that could be quickly converted to farmland. Thus from about 1820, as the Midwest and the American South west of the Appalachian Mountains were settled you saw a huge jump in Passenger Pigeon numbers as ideal areas for them opened up. You must understand the Eastern US was the largest deciduous forest in the world. The joke was a squirrel could go from the Atlantic to the Mississippi river and never have to get out of the trees. Europe is much more mixed forest then the Eastern US. Present theory is the Passenger Pigeons were located along the line just west of the Mississippi River, where that Eastern Forest gave way to the Great Plains (in the Midwest the division was close to the Illinois-Indiana state line, so it did go east of the Mississippi river in that part of the US). Thus the Passenger Pigeons were in a very restricted part of the U.S. but extending eastward where open fields were next to mature tree stands. The Second fact we know of the Passenger Pigeons is they preferred to flock and raise they young in large groups. Thus they would move about once the young birds could fly but not while they were nest bound. It also appear the Passenger Pigeons raised they chicks collectively. They would feed any chick that needed food, even if it was not they chick. The decline of the Passenger Pigeons was blamed on the excessive shooting of them in the late 1800, but the same time the mature forests of the East were also being cut down. After the US Civil War, 1861-1865, the earlier logging of trees went from future farmland to any forest for the trees were very profitable given the massive expansion of the Railroad from the 1850s onward. In my home state of Pennsylvania (Latin for Penn's woods) there is only one group of mature virgin forest that survives (and that was by accident, two companies thought each other owned that property and did not timber it, by the time it was found who owned the land, It was after almost all the trees in the east had been cut down and the owner sold it to a group was wanted to preserve it and had the money to pay top dollar for it. It is now a State Forest just South of the Federal National Forest in Pennsylvania). I bring up that park to show how extensive the deforestation was in the late 1800s. Given the need of Passenger Pigeons for a huge area of Mature Forest to nest and raise chicks, and few if any were left by 1900, the Passenger Pigeon had no place to nest and thus died out. My father said he believe he saw one in the 1920s. His father had called him to their pigeon coup to see a wild pigeon that had stopped at the coup. My father was not yet 10 but remember the wild pigeon was much larger then the pigeons his father was raising. There are other reports of Passenger Pigeons but not nesting ones. It is possible some survived but the general consensus is they are extinct. If any survived till today, the US Eastern Forests are finally recovering enough to have the large mature stands of trees they would need, but most such forests are away from open fields, thus not yet conductive to they return but we are getting close to return to the the conditions for the numbers of Passenger Pigeons in the era before the Westward expansion of 1783 to 1820 to exist (if sufficient numbers survived to reestablished themselves). This is the other theory on why the Passenger Pigeon disappeared, it was not over hunting, pigeons could reproduce more then hunting could kill, but destruction of their habitat, i.e. cutting down the Eastern Deciduous Forest.

[@janebeckman3431]

@@paulmentzer7658 I have read original source accounts of flocks that blotted the sky for days in 1802 and 1804. There seemed to be population surges similar to locust swarms. The early colonists/settlers looked forward to "pigeon years" where the birds would come in abundance and they would sacrifice a few crops for barrels and barrels of salted pigeons or pigeon butter rendered down from fat squabs, which was said to be superior to the finest butter. Occasional irruptions of passenger pigeons would even be noted in northern Europe, possibly blown by Atlantic storms, but by the 1850s accounts from Englad said that the flocks of "wild pigeons from across the sea" had disappeared. But yes, the ecology was changing. The main food source preferred was the butternut, and the butternut groves were being cut for farmland. The pigeons moved on to eating commercial crops such as rice, which did not endear them. So why not harvest them and get money by eliminating a pest species at the same time? And yes, much like the Carolina parakeet, they needed population pressure to successfully breed. Below that threshhold, they did not create the communal nesting grounds. It was a perfect storm. By the 1890s, the sharp decline was noted, but many believed that the passenger pigeon had moved on, perhaps to South America. After all, they migrated vast distances. By the time there were only a few sparse flocks, after 1900, and no flocks were reported from other parts of the world, they started to realize something they didn't fully understand was happening. Now, even if science could somehow re-create a passenger pigeon from DNA and their close relative, the western wood pigeon (a similar but more solitary species, and possibly what your father saw), the butternut forests are gone, and with them a major food source. There would be not enough pressure to create a desire to breed, as well. Other species have moved into the remaining niche space. The passenger pigeon is well and truly gone, and will not be returning.

[@URKillingme100]

Great story! Your story-telling delivery reminds me a bit of the late, great Paul Harvey.

[@marbleman52]

URK....Yes...I agree...I hadn't realized that until you mentioned it...Thanks..!!

[@ddoyle11]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@donc9751]

Only Better IMHO

[@tomtrask_YT]

Don C totally agree...as one who grew up on Paul Harvey, I find this gentlemen *far less* political.

[@CallieMasters5000]

Yeah, I keep waiting for "And now the rest of the story!".

[@katokhaelan4881]

Your writing in this episode is exceptional. "Even the forests today blush a different color, as if they don't quite recognize themselves..." Wow. What a line.

[@justplanebob105]

The Denver Museum of Science and Industry contains a wonderful display of taxidermy passenger pigeons, just a few displays down from the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, in fact. They were truly beautiful birds and I had always known about their extinction. But until watching your presentation here, I never realized just how many there were and how quickly they were hunted to extinction. Thank you.

[@araeagle3829]

"An era when we looked at the sky instead of our cellphones." How poetic! In eating our pigeons we killed our white oaks. How deeply ironic. Truly a delightful video. I feel smarter just by listening to your passionate presentations. You sir are a true wonder. I am delighted to see your subscriptions coming close to the 100000 mark. Impressive growth for one year!

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

Araeagle particularly ironic, since pigeons were shipped in barrels often made of White Oak.

[@robjennings6795]

Most were not consumed. Had to many most times. I often grieved about all the ones in a pile; like fodder.

[@robertqueberg4612]

Araeagle Poetic, but also rather risky if one were to stare toward the heavens with mouths agape, lest one shouldst get whiter teeth than one wouldst want. Oh you dirty bird! From one of Shakespeare’s unpublished works.

[@Matt_from_Florida]

Thank God it's unpublished!

[@robertqueberg4612]

laser325 , Yes, this is one Shakespeare’s finest works. What I find most interesting, is how he came straight to the point, rather than working toward some type of hook line. F you do unearth more of these fine works, they should be sent t Matt from Florida, as it seems he is starting a collection of unpublished Shakespearean works.

[@derekschmidt2703]

Youre getting better at adding emotion to your stories. You're turning into a Paul Harvey level storyteller Keep it up!

[@markuffman9598]

Wow. I had no idea these birds existed. I think of how many species of animals that are now extinct and wonder how these animals "fruited our plains". We almost killed off beavers, timberwolves, buffalo, many fish species and countless others. Thank God for Teddy Roosevelt's vision to create national parks. So many animals still complement our ecosystem. 100 years from now we will still be figuring out how living things keep our earth habitable. Our voracious appetite to consume hopefully will be kept in check. I don't want a future where we consume New York 🐦 or 🐀 burgers (Sylvester Stallone in the futuristic movie Demolition Man). Thank you History Guy. This video makes me look back in time and saddens me.

[@philgiglio9656]

I read once that it was possible for a squirrel to travel from Maine to the Mississippi River and never set foot on the earth. Those forrests would have been majestic to walk thru: had a chance to walk in a virgin old growth long leaf pine stand in North Carolina. It was unlike anything I had ever seen, then or since.

[@chrislj2890]

And now we have massive quantities of non-indiginous starlings, the nasty creatures. Great episode!

[@franksauer21]

I remember seeing "Martha" at the Cincinnati Zoo in, I think, the 70's. She was mounted on a perch in what looked like an historic grotto. It was kind of sad. These are wonderful stories, BTW, History Guy!

[@hoosierhiver]

They redid her "shrine" back in the late 80's. She now shares it with a Carolina parakeet.

[@cpt.flippybirds9015]

Frank Sauer Greetings from Middletown, Ohio... I remember her too.

[@bluecollar58]

She died in 1914 , sept 1 at the Cincinnati zoo , must have been something else you saw.

[@cpt.flippybirds9015]

Steeltoedboots ah, you are right! just like Flipper and Lassie... and Elvis is still alive! 😁

[@franksauer21]

She was stuffed and resided on a perch in a grotto at the Cincinnati Zoo. You can easily look it up. Geesh!

[@ScotchIrishHoundsman]

This whole video made my usual "heart-breaking nostalgia to live in the 18th century", even greater. Thank you.

[@MK0272]

This is by far the best video yet from this channel! "An era when we looked at the sky instead of our cell phones... An era when we didn't think that we knew everything... Even the forests today blush a different color like they don't quite recognize themselves." In a few sentences, he has shown us the riches we can gain from studying history, and what we as a society have lost in the modern era of convenience. We have lost touch with what made America great in the first place- the spirit of self-reliance and the can-do attitude our ancestors had. And that is something we desperately need to get back.

[@howegav]

Piegons! No one can make the subject of piegons interesting (12minutes & 44 Seconds later) I never knew that piegons could be so interesting, thanks History Guy. 👍

[@dwightbusby8505]

It amazes me, each and every episode, how much valuable information you share in a few minutes. Thank You

[@omaha2pt]

An apparently insignificant story about pigeons is, on reflection, quite possibly one of the most important videos you've made. The lesson is invaluable. We are still making these mistakes right now.

[@b_uppy]

The story of how American Chestnut trees were prolly affected should be incorporated here, also. One theory posited in a Permaculture Activist Magazine article (now called Permaculture Design Magazine) was that the American Chestnut tree was already harmed by blight a discovered in 1904, long before they started dying prematurely, but that Passenger Pigeon poop helped keep them healthy and thriving because it created favorable enough conditions that the plants could persist to reproductive maturity.

[@hipocampelofantocame]

Every single episode makes my day better. My step-dad was an American History professor at UVa, and he would have loved your show.

[@maniyan_wanagi]

I remember well when the great Elm trees died, and the intense emotion I felt. I know of only one left alive, in a park in Newton, Iowa. The White Oaks are being killed off by an invasive, introduced fungus now - literally hundreds have died on Uncle Joe's farm alone over the past few years. Thank you, History Guy, for this story, though it has certainly picked an emotional scab with me, it is, indeed, history worth remembering.

[@maniyan_wanagi]

@LagiNaLangAko23 All new-grown Red Elm trees will stunt and die within ten or fifteen years. The Dutch Elm disease is really virulent. I think that DNA should be saved for future propagation - say, in 150 years, after the disease hasn't had anything to feed it for a long time and has likely died out.

[@jjames3793]

I remember when all the dutch elms started to die off. and what really sucks is we had one lone healthy elm in our yard that along with a few big huge maples. That were getting too big and close to our house and the neighbors. But 2 summers ago we had to have them taken down. and we even had a butternut tree which was a shame to cut down being they are not real common in this area of ny except for right along the Hudson River and Mohawk rivers that the Vikings first brought here way before Henny Hudson even dreamed of exploring the Hudson looking for the northwest passage. and the Vikings made it farther then Hudson was even able to go due to the Cohoes falls.

[@absalomdraconis]

The American Elm isn't even endangered, the species is not at risk. An elm can produce hundreds, maybe thousands of seeds a year. The issue is that the longer they've lived, the more chances they've had to get infected, so they usually die about the time you're satisfied with their growth. That makes them a bad choice for human development, so unless you regularly take a walk through the right type of forest, you might not see them.

[@jasonc3522]

You think it's bad now, wait till Sudden Oak Death reaches the the East coast. 11

[@mrmoofle]

@@jasonc3522 we're already dealing with the ravages of the spotted lantern fly as it is. The hardwood timber industry is in trouble here in the northeast.

[@alex0589]

In Quebec, our word for meat pie (Tourtière) is based on our word for passenger pigeon (Tourte) and has many very different regional recipes but the bird’s legacy is still with us, especially around the holidays. When i was a teenager, i worked as a guide at a wildlife refuge and i would tell my groups the short version of this story as a cautionary tale about perceived abundance, overhunting and population control. Thanks for making this.

[@servico100]

The image of Columbus Ohio covered in pigeon dung is amusing. Thank you, Sir.

[@SxTxferlife]

I've read my great great grandparents journals from their immigration from Sinaloa (from great great grandpa) and michuacan (from my great great grandma) and both mentioned the vast amounts of pigeons blotting the sky, they took those events as good religious symbols, literally both saying similar things about feeling that moving to a different country was part of their destiny, even though it was a hard and painful decision to leave. This video brought that memory to the forefront of my mind

[@RCAvhstape]

What you said about how the forest has changed so radically in the last 100 years made me think. When we think about what makes our time different from the past we always think about things like technology, clothing fashion, hairstyles, etc., but it's important to remember that even the very land itself was different, something movies never rally seem to convey. I was in Virginia at the Bull Run battlefield and besides the obvious incursion of sprawl in the area, I couldn't understand the sight lines as described in history, and then someone explained to me that in the 1860s there were a lot fewer trees than there are today, because it was all clear cut for farming. Look at a map of Boston today and compare it with a map of the same city in the 1770s; not only are there obviously more buildings, but the landscape itself is completely different, rivers and shorelines all changed.

[@WDFJR16345]

Thanks History Guy. I rarely get emotional, but your telling of the passenger pigeon extinction was full of emotion I’ve not seen in previous yarns. Well done.

[@ksbrook1430]

Thank you. This episode has a message much deeper than simply 'what was'.

[@theodorecalvin4214]

This expansion on the too oft glossed-over passenger pigeon tragedy was informative and moving, your poetic closure bringing a tear or two to my eye. Well played, sir!

[@crazioma6648]

I recall reading a book written from the point of view of a passenger pigeon back when I was just a child in grade school. It broke my heart and sent me on to other greats such as The Silent Spring. I haven't been as touched remembering Martha in years as your way of recalling her last days. I look up at the skys and wonder what it must have been like.

[@T3hderk87]

Man.... I don't know why more people watch your channel, such insights into the darker and less known corners of what we call history. Thank you sir.

[@howard6798]

Sadly, I was completely ignorant of passenger pigeon history. Thank you for this episode.

[@colinp2238]

If the pigeons hadn't gone extinct then maybe Col Saunders would be famous for KFP not KFC.

[@robjennings6795]

Would it have been any better?

[@colinp2238]

Judging by the size of the chicken pieces I think it should be KFS - sparrow.

[@bloatedman]

+ Rob..We kept chickens and pigeons, sold the pullets but mom prepared the squab for us.

[@Matt_from_Florida]

Would they have a designated "pigeon hunter" standing in the parking lot with a skeet gun? Bet that place would never get robbed.

[@jashanestone]

@@Matt_from_Florida who's robbing KFC? Never mind.. I see you're from Florida.. Where people do everything wrong under the sun there. Especially towards each other.. 😂😂😂

[@petermartinverduyn]

I subscribed only quite recently and have watched a ton of your videos. I think your subscriber count has almost doubled since. Almost 100k now!!

[@larrysherk]

uniformly good stories, and usually about stuff we hadn't thought about.

[@jefflee1189]

If ya click the bell it will give you notices. I've been watching for almost a year. I used to hate learning history

[@jashanestone]

You've subscribed just a week before I myself and I can also agree that it's addictive and appreciative..

[@flagmichael]

Jeff Lee, when I was in school my worst grades were in art, music, and history. I never understood any of them at all. Once out of school I found well presented history was interesting, and with this channel I found it can be downright fascinating. Remarkable composition and engaging presentation... it is still the only youtube channel of which I see fit to be a patron.

[@J_T_B]

10 months later and he's approaching 500k.. he deserves a few million more

[@satchpersaud8762]

Not for nothing the history guy has the best delivery out of all the people who make videos on youtube... Not to mention the content is something i feel all people who consider themselves history lovers should watch..

[@marklanzilla1871]

By far, your most poignant and heartfelt episode. Bravo for the cautionary words to the wise within.....

[@okiadventure6031]

Absolutely outstanding work! I never expected that a pigeon could be so significant. Extremely well written and presented narration. Keep up the great videos sir!

[@niceguy2171]

As someone who lives in the once bountiful range of the passenger pigeon, and heard some stories..although not nearly as in depth as this video covers, of them covering the land, and how good they were prepared a certain family way 200 yrs. ago, it is horrifying to learn the effects of them being gone. This is especially poignant as on my large property here in the middle of their range, I have 2 red oaks on my land, and a red maple no farther than 20 feet away from where I am typing this comment(get comments about how pretty it looks in the fall in fact, bright red leaves) among other tree species..none of them white oaks. My fathers property covered in oak trees did have some white oaks on it, but far more red, and even those have been cut down greatly by the people who bought it now.

[@troynewly]

It is wondrously amazing how interconnected nature is that the entire forestry of North America changed with the passing of this formerly prodigious bird species. Thank you.

[@Freddie_Dunning-Kruger_Jr.]

That conclusion was heartwarming and heartbreaking!! Isn't there a word for that?

[@absentmindedprof]

The extinction of the North American Chestnut tree due to Dutch Elm disease would be very interesting. IMHO.

[@tetekofa]

Yes, The American Chestnut was very prolific, a National treasure was lost when the blight wiped them out. The nuts of the Chestnut trees were used as a currency at one time because of their value as food for humans, and feed for livestock.

[@domdipyatic3997]

American chestnut trees are not extinct. There are some mature trees in their historical range that are blight resistant. There are some organizations that are tryin to bring back the tree. The American Chestnut Cooperators Foundation is breeding blight resistant trees by intercrossing different trees to build up their resistance to the blight. I have 4 of the trees in my yard I planted 4 years ago. One of the trees has 2 burrs on it. The first sign of nuts so far on the 4 trees. Too early to tell if there are nuts inside the burrs. I’m hoping!

[@rfarevalo]

The trees are not extinct in there natural range.

[@longlakeshore]

My faculty advisor studied treefall gap dynamics in the eastern hardwood forest. His research showed that the Chestnut Oak was most likely to replace the fallen American Chestnut in remnant virgin hardwood forest.

[@longlakeshore]

It's a de facto extinction. Billions of American Chestnuts died. For all intents they have disappeared from the eastern forest. A few stay alive from stump sprouts but they cannot survive to maturity.

[@brucekivi]

I wrote a paper when I was at the University of Minnesota on the extinction of the passenger pigeon. This is information I never knew back in 1976. Thank you. Now, in my back yard at home I have a number of white oaks. Interesting connection between the two. A symbiotic relationship. I’ll do my best to preserve them.

[@marvconnelly989]

Although I have enjoyed every video I have watched of yours, I had passed over this one repeatedly.... What a mistake! It was fascinating! Well done Sir.... Thank you so much.

[@bigblue6917]

Many thanks for this video. I knew something of the Passenger Pigeons fate and how it came about but not in such detail. A fate similar to the buffalo but at least some of them survived. It reminded me of the British oyster. If I said that last night I was eating oysters you may think I am well to do. But 200 years ago that was the diet of the very poorest of the poor. It was so common that in many country houses every meal for the servants would have been oysters, morning, noon and night. Apprentices had a clause in their contracts stating you could only feed them oysters for so many meals in a week. Now it is regarded as a luxury food. Another point which may interest you. 200 years ago your oysters would been accompanied by claret, then a poor mans drinks. How times have changed.

[@flagmichael]

The bison are recovering well. There is a herd on the north rim of the Grand Canyon that is getting too large and may have to be opened for hunting.

[@deelarry2137]

Some people like reality tv, some like Taylor swift.. and I love history! It's just my thing.. and all these little bits and pieces of history, from the history guy, this is my style.. along with museums, visiting sights, etc..

[@iansmith385]

Historys my thing too bud

[@MrArgus11111]

Wow, aren't you a smart big brain boi that doesn't love normie things?

[@deelarry2137]

@@MrArgus11111 not sure what your getting at, but I do love normal things, but I don't have a television and never have.. I try to educate myself, not entertain.. for example, why would a person sit in front of a tv, watching others have fun and do amazing things, when you can do these things yourself rather than watching others..

[@MrArgus11111]

Dee Larry You do you, but that sounds like the gayest shit I've ever heard and should be on a poster on your wall and not what you say to people.

[@MrArgus11111]

Gee guys, this whole internet thing is new to me! how do I click "reply" how do I do anything? I live on a steady diet of musty books and warm chicory coffee! I AM CONFUSED

[@deniseb3897]

I have been a subscriber for several months now. My Dad was on the battleship Pennsylvania, or " the Pensy" as he called it, from 1941 to 1945. I saw your story on her which exposed me to your show for the first time. I really like the stories that you tell as well as the way that you tell them. I wish my Dad was still around because he would have loved your show because he was always fascinated by history. My favorites so far have been the story of "the Pensy", of course, and the stories about apples and this one about passenger pigeons. Thanks for keeping history alive and interesting!

[@dwtbrown]

Why does this man not have a regular show on television?

[@Jeff-cr9ho]

i think the History Guy is ABSOLUTELY network worthy! and it would be a hit.

[@RLC302]

Because television has deteriorated to the point where the network sponsors are unable to recognize anything that's worth watching!

[@iljanosj]

You're the best. I love your history stories. I love history. Thank you so much.

[@orangelion03]

Fascinating! I had no concept of the size of the Passenger Pigeon population before they were hunted into extinction. I'm guessing it must have been a major source of protein for Native Americans. Noticing that you are almost to a well-deserved 100K subscriptions!

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

Passenger Pigeon- carrier pigeons are a different kind of pigeon. :)

[@orangelion03]

The History Guy: History Deserves to Be Remembered Brain fade!!

[@orangelion03]

Silently Sceptical Not sure what you are inferring here. I wasn't implying the native population had anything to do with the extinction of this bird. I was only expressing a thought that native Americans must have considered this plentiful animal as one of their food sources

[@sparky6086]

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel The extinction of the Passenger Pigeon really got people's attention in an era, when people, by necessity, were worried more about their own survival, than the survival of some other species. Going from blocking out the Sun, to extinction, within their lifetime had an apocalyptic quality to millions of shocked observers, who saw them as an asset during a time, when many people had little access to meat. Even w/the huge demand, hunting, and habitat loss, on the surface, because of the millions or billions of Passenger Pigions then; it still doesn't make sense, at least on the surface, that they'd go extinct. There's a modern theory, that their population would cycle up over a few hundred or thousand years to a peak population of billions of pigeons, then relatively suddenly drop down to only several thousand birds, possibly due to long term genetics or something, I don't remember. Then, they'd start the cycle back toward billions of Passenger Pigeons. Unfortunately, when they suddenly cycled down to the several thousand in the late 1800's, it was during the peak of their popularity as a food item & the common use of firearms & their efficiency for bird hunting, so it was easy to kill several thousand birds, where it was seemingly impossible to kill the billions of them just a generation earlier. By the time the scarcity of Passenger Pigeons was noticed (people just assumed, that the pigeons merely "went somewhere else this year") & appropriate regulations, laws, or restrictions were enacted, it was too late, & there weren't enough Passenger Pigeons left to keep their long term reproductive cycle going. History Guy, do you or anyone know of this theory? It must have a name? I can't remember. Does anyone remember this theory? I think; it has a name?

[@davidgreen5099]

@Silently Sceptical no it doesnt. I knew exactly what orange meant. That like the buffalo, the pigeon was plentiful, and agood source of protein, fine bones for needles, and feathers. Youre far too sensitive.

[@racher4593]

My grandparents house was in Bay Shore LI. every tree on there property was an oak. 4 pin oaks, 2 black, 2 red, and 1 massive white. That tree held my tire swing, a little fort, and due to its gnaly trunk and bark, was really fun to climb. It was my favorite tree. I always wondered why you didn't see as many of them out in the woods. Thanks to you i now know why, and the reason is a lot sadder than could've expected.

[@richardsanjose3692]

Im 65 yrs. Old and had heard phrases like....remember the passenger pigeon ....all my life and although a history buff, as it were, i never really knew what the references to them were about and the story of their passing. So i thank u for fillin me in on yet another story of our decimation of the planet. Thanks, Rich/ San Jose

[@donnyanda3191]

Love this channel it furnishes my brain and makes it a nicer place to live.

[@kevinbissett293]

I love history. I saw a recommendation for your channel. I had to try it. My wife and I both listened to you for the first time. We love the detail you give. The history of the passenger pigeons reminded of my Grandfather telling me of the passenger pigeons and how large of a bird was and how great they tasted. Everything you said was so true about the passenger pigeons. I didn't know about the oaks. So thank you so very much. I did subscribe to your channel. So my wife and I can listen together. We have a lot of catching up to do. We are looking forward to it. Thank you so much.

[@eetadakimasu]

I had never heard of Passenger Pigeons, thank you for this great video!

[@thebonesaw..4634]

This is why your channel is so entertaining and informative. Most everyone knows the cautionary tale of the Passenger Pigeon but few (myself included) had no idea that they were so closely intertwined with the White Oak. I can see why you have such a love of history... of not only what was or what might have been... but what it still has to teach us here in the present, or for the future that still might be.

[@michaelfitzgerald434]

Informative and delightful.

[@sptownsend999]

Another great video! I love watching all these! Can you do one on Glenn Miller and his disappearance?

[@jamesjacocks6221]

Is he gone?

[@sptownsend999]

I haven't done much research, but his plane to Paris disappeared over the English Channel I think on Christmas Eve. I believe that he left before his band did, but it is unknown why he did. There are many conspiracy theories that perhaps he was captured by the Nazis or that he deserted, but I don't think they have very much merit to them. I'd like The History Guy to do an episode on the whole Glenn Miller Story. Besides, it's a story that other people should hear!

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

It is an interesting story, yes.

[@sptownsend999]

I got into Glenn Miller in 7th Grade, after going to Jazz Band rehearsal, I saw an old poster for his orchestra. I went home and looked him up, and I loved his music!

[@diamonddog257]

YES.....he was captured by Nazi .... they changes his name to 'Irving Berlin'......

[@cwalt4483]

Where I live Pine plantations and clear cutting have decimated the White Oak forest.

[@MrPlutoUSA]

A story well told. With the numbers of species facing extinction, it is easily happening again all over the planet. Thanks!

[@susanlize3290]

Great video! I was just reading about this topic a few days ago

[@Matt_from_Florida]

For some reason this video really stuck a cord with me. All the more unusual because having seen the topic I put off watching it for some time. In the end I suppose it is simply another piece of history slipping into the realm of *once upon a time and no more;* where I too one day, will belong.

[@africantilapia5831]

Your BEST video yet! A real demonstration of just how ignorant those people calling climate change a "hoax" really are!

[@nedludd7622]

"An era when we looked at sky instead of out cell phones." That is so true. People seem to mostly use the phones to chat about nonsense with their acquaintances and not use their immense possibility to learn things. People can not walk and talk to their phones at the same time. I have lost count of the number of times one has walked into me.

[@russellstauffer2994]

Fascinating revelations about the change of ecology due to human intervention! Good info, and it is a wonderful story.

[@Codoloco1]

Probably normal when I see a title, "pigeons, oak and forgotten era" I would probably keep swiping and not click. Coming from THG though, I know it's gonna interest me so its a definite click!! You fill me noggin with knowledge

[@mikeycbaby]

I wrote a paper years ago on their extinction and the effects on the ecosystem but your video was very insightful especially for addressing the impact to the economy.

[@charlesnolan7602]

A humorous aside about pigeons in general- In fall 1977 , rock band GENESIS released a 3 song EP called... " PIGEONS!" Singer Phil Collins laments in the song about the condition of the British foreign office roof ! A lyric line and a song created 42 years ago that...deserves to be remembered!

[@lavejim11]

Bravo...another great video. I never knew the story of the passenger pigeon

[@panther105]

Pigeons eat grain. That many birds must have been like locusts in some areas. Personally, I love the modern pigeon especially after rescuing two sick ones and nursing them back to health.

[@juliogonzo2718]

As gross as this sounds, I inspected the stomach contents of a dead pigeon. It was all seeds/grain, absolutely no garbage.

[@SteveAubrey1762]

One of the very best! THIS is why history is important! This is my favourite channel on YT. JA

[@justabigbaby]

Fascinating, shocking. A lesson like so many rushing footsteps that still haunt us. Poor man when will he hear and yield?

[@joeotto6082]

In high school in the ‘50’s, I didn’t like ‘history’ at all. Now, I have a continuous hunger for history. Maybe if we had a History Guy in school, I would have enjoyed it and might have learned something besides some meaningless and long forgotten dates. Thank you. And please, keep doing what you are doing.

[@tangerinesky3336]

Most teens are too self absorbed to appreciate history.

[@joeotto6082]

Kevin, thank you. And Tangerine, you make a good point and perhaps we in the ‘50’s WERE self absorbed. But I doubt it was anywhere near the degree I see in so many of our young people today. While I really have no right to judge the kids, then or now, our society permits my opinion, all judgement aside. In my case, my passion was aviation and science and I excelled in those matters. Kevin said it more eloquently than I ever could. The history I was fed was simple, boring facts; now we have a great teacher in the History Guy who expounds on the ‘why’ of things that happen how other facets of life can be affected by an event.

[@rabbi120348]

Joe Otto: "Beuhler? Buehler?"

[@joeotto6082]

Bob Rabinoff I don’t understand your comment. Beuhler? Please explain. Thank you.

[@brianmonks8657]

@@joeotto6082 It's a quote from the 1986 comedy film "Ferris Bueller's day off" From a scene where the teacher is taking attendance.

[@o2wow]

The Eastern forests also changed with arrival of earthworms. Settlers brought fruit trees from Europe and earthworms got to the New Word in the roots of the trees.

[@LadyMarie880]

This is so unreal to me, as I look forward every summer, by the time I turned seven till I was about 11 or 12 , I would make 10 dallors catching as many birds I could in about one loud or fill a trunk of a car back in the 50tys. The man showed me how to catch and flip them brake there neck, and drove them to him , from the peak of the barn. By the time I was 12 it was taking much long to do this job. So interesting you telling this story. Farming was changing also bigger equipment bigger fields and the grain was not as easy for birds to find in the amounts need to support the huge flocks/kits.ALSO there was disease going though flocks of laying hens and they were pointing there fingers at the pigeon and there droppings. So you can guess how that goes. So the vet said make sure there is nothing for them to eat around your building. Thanks for the stories and the sharing.

[@eumoria]

This is the best kind of history... I had no idea this was a thing that happened! You said at the beginning the extinction was a story that everyone knows and I certainly didn't. Thanks for the amazing stories!

[@davidharris6581]

Thank you. Very interesting I enjoyed that. Actually, I believe Live Oak is historically our most valuable wood. It was superior to other wood for building wooden ships. The sides of The Constitution (which you showed) are live Oak. And that is how she got her nickname "Old Ironsides" I have actually been thinking of that subject recently because the Islands off the Carolina Coast that has just been devastated by hurricane Florence, are where the Live Oak for the Six Frigates was harvested.

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

David Harris The Constitution also used White Oak, and repairs are made from a special oak grove on Navy land called “Constitution grove.”

[@davidharris6581]

Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for the quick reply!

[@markc6207]

Correct the Constitution was made of live oak. The outer planking and decks were White oak.

[@bodan1196]

A while back I heard the recording of a bird, a male singing his heart out without any response. He too was the last of a species. I feel no shame as a man, to admitt that my eyes teared up, eventhough I'm not sure why. I mean, what was this bird to me...

[@Gun4Freedom]

I hope that recording survives, a strange raised fist against time itself, forever speaking of how it conquered time, while speaking with the voice of a solitary songbird, the last of his kind. There is no shame in being deeply affected by that. It would be shameful not to be affected so. The sound of the last living member of a species, not to ever live naturally in the world again. I can't wrap my mind around how lonely that could be. So many creatures have walked, swam, and flown in this world through aeons and aeons, only to fade away, leaving only their bones and tracks, or nothing at all. We are lucky to have a recording like that.

[@Gun4Freedom]

I recently listened to a recording of the last Tasmanian Tiger and it evoked the same feeling.

[@babalon7778]

Same here, and it looks like such a beautiful sweet bird, I just can't understand how we let this happen.

[@Gun4Freedom]

babalon 777, I think part of it is this mindset that some people have, that the Earth and all it's lifeforms are specifically here for us to do as we please with. It is not. The damage is clear to anyone that bothers to look closely at history and present events. Contributing as a factor is ignorance of the balance that needs to exist in any of the varied ecosystems. Whether it's willful ignorance or simply caused by lack of education, the result is the same. It also doesn't help when those ignorant people get better hunting technology, while not improving their agricultural food supply. These tragic losses often happen in societies that have not devoted any resources to studying the environment, or have become economically addicted to an animal, which they then overharvest to extinction.

[@babalon7778]

@@Gun4Freedom Yes, we have to be caretakers to our best abilities, I just wish those of us who could afford to use less would, my small sacrifices aren't enough, and it's "socially unacceptable" to look like you have less.

[@ZenZaBill]

The Carrier Pigeon, a 19th Century clipper ship built in Bath, Maine, hit some rocks on its maiden voyage north of Santa Cruz, CA on June 6 1853-on her maiden voyage. A lighthouse, tallest in CA (still is) was built and is now known as the Pigeon Point Lighthouse. It still has the huge fresnel lens array up on top. It was an amazing sight to see when they lit it up once a year, an array of beams marching across the ocean, before structural issues closed the lighthouse, and they quit doing the lighting and docent-led lamp room tours.

[@bizbuildershawaii1719]

Brilliant intro and extremely interesting.. I had no idea.. amazing connection to the White oak.. done in such a wonderfully intriguing style that draws you in

[@juliestevens6931]

I have a few questions for you. Answer or not, that is fine. How long does it usually take to produce a video? I know that some subjects take more research than others, but once your research is done... Have subscribers suggested things that totally surprised you? :o) For a person (me) who is NOT a history person, I find your videos fascinating, entertaining and educational! On so many of these, even when I know about the general instance, your perspective often give me a whole new outlook on the events. Thank you for making them so enjoyable to watch.

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

Julie Stevens once I have a script ready and media collected, I can get it filmed and produced in half a day. The issue is that some take much longer to research, write, and track down images in the Public Domain. Yes, subscribers have suggested great topics that I knew nothing about, and I learn quite a lot every episode. I did not expect this one to go into the White Oak, but it turned out to be a fun line to research. I learned more about coopering than I ever knew existed.

[@GeSchmidtt]

The History Guy: History Deserves to Be Remembered You have earned a well deserved flagon of bourbon.

[@christopherditlow5595]

The largest white oak barrel plant in the USA.....www.iscbarrels.com/tours/

[@jeffwalters8552]

Leave a like people! Great content History Guy, love your channel!

[@N0rdman]

As a kid the picture of Martha in one of my books about natural life and animals fascinated me and how a species so abundant could go extinct. Very well executed and interesting. I'm eager to see what next story you will find to tell.

[@mellissadalby1402]

Wow, what a great episode! I had no idea the passenger pigeon played such a significant role in the ecology of the North American continent. The irony of their extinction is that the same lack of foresight humans employed to destroy the passenger pigeons has not abated, but perhaps even grown. I am confident that as such, humans will bring about their own extinction.

[@basroos_snafu]

I am certain that the stills at 5:30 and 6:58 depict a Liquidambar styraciflua (American sweetgum), and not a maple species. In Europe, the Liquidambar has become very popular for its distinctive red autumn leaves, more prominent than any other native species.

[@mattkaustickomments]

basroos, the only problem with them is the annoying messy and often dangerous spiked seed ‘balls’ they drop. If they are now popular in Europe, I’m assuming they are the fairly recently cultivated ‘no-ball’ variety.

[@basroos_snafu]

That is funny. No, they do have the seed balls, and there are two popular cultivars, 'Moraine' and 'Worplesdon'. In our low countries they don't grow higher than 20 m (60 ft), perhaps it makes them a bit safer when the projectiles are released, and they do not occur in the wild, only in gardens.

[@mattkaustickomments]

basroos, haha, no it’s not the falling spike balls that hurts, it’s stepping on the damn things with bare feet. Or sometimes slipping on them on pavement.

[@dugroz]

History Guy has said in other videos before that it's sometimes difficult to get copyright-free images of specific things, so sometimes he has to get something "close enough."

[@Milkmans_Son]

Wouldn't this qualify as fair use?