A Renewed Discussion of the NHL's Point System

[@poejavelski148]

I looked at this a little while ago. In the salary cap era, out of 518 different team records, 272 playoff teams and 246 non-playoff teams, only nine swaps (18 total teams affected) would have taken place. In other words, 96.5% of teams remain as either a playoff team or a non-playoff team. This hasn't even happened since the 17-18 season, where the Panthers would have overtaken the Blue Jackets.

[@JDAWG2111]

Thank you for sharing this data. It validates my thoughts that criticism of the 3-point system is pretty overblown. The parity the current system creates is a good thing in my opinion, and at least one alternative to this system barely changes outcomes anyway, as evident by your data

[@ThomasJM25]

WOW! so its all about illusion of competition

[@poejavelski148]

@@JDAWG2111 No worries, and even further, almost none of these swaps would have made a huge impact. The 2006 Oilers are the only teams that had a significant impact from these cases (they would have been replaced by the Canucks). All other instances, teams either lost in the first or second round, with the 2010 Canadiens (would have been teplaced by Rangers) going to the 3rd round. At the end of the day, the contenders are going to be in the playoffs regardless.

[@Ron-r5g]

Regulation win = 3 points. Overtime or shootout win = 2 points. Overtime or shootout lose = 1 point.

[@justusnixx]

lose - 0, win in reg - 2, win in OT - 1

[@milan99cz]

The only correct way.

[@lilpigboy]

Yup, the clear best way!

[@the6ig6adwolf]

What this video taught me: the Sharks are almost a playoff team.

[@bavier6355]

Im with u on the ties tbh the shootout can lead to some good moments but I really just wanna see these guys play hockey. Shootout kinda feels like its own thing entirely.

[@tt128556]

We have the 3-point system in Finland and I actually prefer the old 2-point system the NHL is using. Keeps the playoff spots uncertain for a longer time.

[@sheendawggy54]

The NY overtime merchants marching into another first round exit against Carolina

[@Klb818]

Wearing the Islanders jersey cause we’re hungry for loser points huh 😂

[@Mythandor]

😂😂

[@LSA30]

"Obviously you're not going to stop the season today and go, 'well, that's it!'" *COVID-24 has entered the chat*

[@justinpalumbo2447]

Only changes I would want is, get rid of the shootout, bring back the 1 point tie, make 3 on 3 ot 10 min.

[@gabrielrockman]

I agree with you. I want the NHL to bring back ties. I know that we're in the minority, but it's great to see a visible hockey fan with a big following publicly advocating for our position.

[@MarkCMG]

Thanks for the video! A three point for a win system might benefit from ending games in regulation with ties where both teams get one point. Some teams might play for a tie but teams that need points would be more aggressive in the final minutes of regulation. Keep the overtime games just for playoffs, in this system. It's definitely different math and strategies. Also, have shorthanded goals end a penalty.

[@Bowman1999]

I don't see the NHL changing the points system anytime soon.

[@newjerseyfan101]

We need to get rid of the shootout

[@jkliao6486]

I simply don't understand why people whine about the current system. It's not like we don't have enough points over the course of an 82-game regular season that we are constantly relying on tie-breaker at the end of the season for the playoff spot. And if you are just an angry red wings fan, two number for you, -37 and 27, that should be enough to cool you down.

[@brettbannister5560]

Bruins & Monty? Feels similar to Cassidy. I like Monty but something isn’t working. ‘On paper’ the team shouldn’t be struggling this much. I can blame Neely and Sweeney for no center, but no for the teams complete lack of energy

[@borisvandruff7532]

Shootouts are not hockey, they’re a skills contest in hockey uniforms. If you want to spare your guys, 3v3 for ten minutes, bring back the tie, no loser point.

[@Detector1977]

I just like it from the standpoint that a team gets rewarded for winning in regulation and it feels weird if you chase a playoffs spot and win resulting in 2 pts while 2 teams also fighting for that spot shared 3 pts between them on the same night. IF you remove any points for a team losing in overtime you'd get the most boring overtime ever as no team will risk anything and throw away the point they earned.

[@gabrielrockman]

I've adopted your term of "loser point" for the point teams get for an overtime or shootout loss. And I've taken it a step further, and I call it the "skills competition point" for the point teams get for an overtime win or shootout win.

[@JoeOsChannel]

I'd love to get rid of the shootout. Ties were fine back in the day. Yup...I remember that. I'm even older than Shannon :)

[@Garvatron89]

The league definitely needs to do one of the two options, either the international 3 point system, or bring back ties. The loser point is brutal, and the shootout to decide a game is a joke. You see it now that there's now urgency at the end of regulation from teams in a tied game. The 3 point system qould Change that

[@frankthomas4469]

As a fresh NHL fan and based in Wales I don't have much authority but I see it as the job is to win the game in 60 mins you don't do that you don't deserve the same as a team that did. So the 3,2,1,0 point system makes sense to me, unless you guys get onboard with draws! I totally agree about shootouts, it's not a reflection on the teams cohesive ability but I will say as a kid watching penalties I love the drama of it, it was so exciting I think it's a great reward for a kid watching what usually has been a pretty boring match! Kids with small gardens can put some chalk on a wall and still feel like hitting a ball/puck against it is a chance to relive last night's game!

[@iantavano9668]

Wearing the isles gear is diabolical😂 as an islanders fan I approve

[@JohnnyReno71]

3 point system or points for winners only in any fashion. OT no more shootouts and have tie.

[@squidMB]

I can live with the NHL’s point system, as long as we go back to the 1v8 seed system for the playoffs.

[@matthewsimonds3346]

@@squidMB why? It’s best on best hockey, there aren’t any bad teams

[@BSAnime]

THG talked about this quite a bit. It really doesn't change the seeding that much and sometimes not at all

[@tt128556]

Couldn't agree more, getting sick and tired of all the divisional "rivalries", same teams facing each other on round 1 and 2 year after year.

[@SMG2fanatic]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@BSAnimemy disdain for the divisional format becomes apparent after the first round. It’s true the first round seeding is many times identical in both formats, but in divisional there are only 8 possible matchups in round 2, as opposed to 18 possible matchups in a 1v8 format. Granted, some matchups are dependent on the others and several are incredibly unlikely (ie we probably would never see 5v8 & 6v7 in the second round), but it still offers more intrigue than the current format.

[@matthewsimonds3346]

@@tt128556 last year in the first round there were 5 new matchups from the previous year. And a lot of you guys said those were lame. Make up your mind

[@FoodFollow]

It's nice to know there are 3 points available every game. Having some games dish out 2 vs 3 for others doesn't make sense. Imagine 2 teams passing you on the last game of the year for a playoff position because they went to OT! No appetite for that.

[@stafio]

I completely agree. It makes no sense that games are worth different amounts of points. It would never happen, but theoretically with this system one team could lose every game in regulation and end up with zero points, while another team loses every game in OT and gets 82 points.

[@jeffreyclinard2002]

In my own analysis, I'm calculating a rough games-behind. A larger number of points behind is softened by the fact each game is worth an additional point with a regulation win. There are teams that gain and lose, but overall, I'm not seeing enough of a difference to validate a change. Change the points to 3000 points for a regulation win, 2000 points for a OT win, and 1000 points for a OT loss, and it's easier to see that being behind by 3000 points isn't much. I played competitive Magic for years, with the 3 points for a win, 0 points for a loss, and one point each for a tie. There, a tie is almost as bad as a loss, because the number of rounds is far fewer than the number of games of an NHL season. I prefer the shootout over ties. I also want to note that Nashville risked their loser point at least twice last year (and actually lost it against Vegas) by pulling their goaltender in OT. Though I was also confused why they adopted that strategy. They needed the win for the playoffs, but also needed Vegas to not get a point. It would seem to me that if they were going to gamble their loser point, they'd have done so in the waning moments of regulation, where they could have picked up the two and denied Vegas a point, rather than risking their point loser point after Vegas already picked it up.

[@cronoros]

In my home sport, they used to do single match elimination, full-on replay in case of a draw. It took 4 full games once 😂 I feel like if you accept that a tiebreaker system needs to exist then at some point you need to recognise that neither team deserved to win or lose and the tiebreaker is just a better way to do it than flipping a coin or replaying the full match again

[@alolansandshrew1756]

I respect that folks will disagree with me on this - but I do enjoy the shootout. Crazy idea, but hear me out on this: what do folks think of an allocation-of-points system? Something like this: Win in regulation: 5 points to winner, 0 to loser Win in overtime: 4 points to winner, 1 to loser Win in shootout: 3 points to winner, 2 to loser That way, the relative value of a regulation win is meaningfully bigger than that of an overtime or shootout win.

[@goaliecoachmike]

Fine as it is and shall remain!

[@dovidrotenberg4690]

The reason for the "loser points" is because in the old overtime winner take all, teams basically played for the one point tie. Three on three is partially artificial while the shoot out is totally artificial. To suggest that any win is absolute and likewise any loss as supposedly in the MLB, is unjust and does not pan out. It is preferable to go back to no overtime and recognize the one point tie. Then there is the other extreme of 0 regulation loss, 1 point shootout and overtime loss. 2 points shootout win, 3 points overtime win and four points regulation win.

[@winnipegcentralhockeyleague]

No loser point!

[@jasonbyl8695]

It doesn't matter what system they use, nothing will change til. coaches and teams stop playing not to lose.

[@michaelb4590]

I’m looking forward to when Boston is in the bottom row of power rankings. It’s coming it’s just when

[@JPMadden]

It already happened (2 weeks ago?)

[@davidlavoie5887]

Looks like you were right about the Bruins firing Monty. Should be Sweeney or Neely. -as of writing it was reported by WEEI’s Keefe, with announcements expected today or tomorrow

[@orbakun]

9:26 The KHL’s minor league added a rule that I think would reduce the number of shootouts without extending 3 on 3 OT. It pretty much says in OT an offensive player cannot re enter his own zone while possessing the puck, if he does the following face off will be in their zone.

[@ThomasJM25]

I liek this style! maybe consider doing a similar video near playoffs.

[@wilburwhateley4626]

We need a video of how last year would have ended up with the 3-2-1 system and the no "loser point" system.

[@simplewines1566]

The Islanders are hanging tough without Barzal, Reilly, Pelech, Romanov, and the new signing of Duclair. They are all injured. That team is just tough. I'd like to go back to the old point system. But it is the system we have and that's on Bettman. Not the Islanders.

[@ItzzCoach]

3p for reg win 2p for ot win 1p for so win, And no points at all for losers.

[@charliem9831]

2 points with a win in regulation. 2 points with an OT win, 1 for an OT lose. Make 3 on 3 from 5 minutes to 8. Shoot out winner gets 1 point losers get nothing.

[@HALberdier17]

The system works fine. Though if I was in charge the point system would be 3 (Regulation Win), 2 (Overtime Win), 1 (Tie) and 0 (Loss)

[@gregvogel9859]

I’m fine with Shootouts. They are a bit of a novelty and fun once in a blue moon which is how often they are. The average team will participate in 3 shootouts over the course of a season.

[@VachisCZ]

I quite like the IIHF system: regulation win=3b, ot win =2b and ot loss =1b

[@dsc4178]

I hate the current pt system. Either go 3 points regulation win, 2 for OT and 1 for a tie, and only a tiebreaker pt for SO, each get a real pt. Or go 3 pts for a win, 2 pts for OT win and a point for the tie, and no shootout.

[@Boris_Chang]

Whatever the point system is, I feel strongly that the number of points available per game should be the same for ALL games. Back when we had ties, there were two points available. The current system where some games (regulation wins) yield two points for the winner and zippo for the loser, but for OT’s, three points available (two points for the winner, and one point for the loser). This promotes teams stalling late in the game if it’s tied, to guarantee a point. What also drives me nuts is teams that have players who are good on breakaways stalling in the OT.

[@jonah.donohue]

I’m all for this system

[@zombiejesus7445]

Next video about Monty getting let go. I still think it isn't his fault at all.. and he did amazing with the team. A HISTORIC season to start

[@HawklordLI]

3 points for a win is an asinine idea. 1. Get rid of the idiotic shootout...two points for a win....no points for OT loss...and go back to ties and deal with it.

[@nikitasviridov1792]

For some reason they'll use the 3-point system at the four nations face-off. So maybe the NHL's taking a look at it.

[@scarecrowninja]

goals should count in the shootout

[@JPMadden]

Shannon pointed out that the current system makes it seem like mediocre teams are closer to being competitive than they actually are. This must help ticket sales. I'm guessing this would be the weightiest argument against change.

[@soulknife20]

Get rid of loser points. You lost. Doesn't matter when you lost. You lost. You don't get loser points in the playoffs. No soup for you

[@biglebowski3961]

Points may sugar coat the standings, but fans know which teams are pretty bad. And there are plenty of very avg teams in this league.

[@kimepp2216]

Whatever system is in place, some teams will be disadvantaged. What system is in place doesn't really matter. Cheers.

[@steveb9713]

If 2 points is the total for 1 game, they should go to half points, so .5 each for a tie, then play ot for a point, so 1.5 for an ot win, and only .5 for a shootout win to make ot worth more.

[@catholicactionbibleonlyist1813]

Since they are no longer ties in hockey they should get rid of the point system and do it like baseball

[@monkeybuisness5275]

Welp there Goes Monty... the first of many I presume, however hopeful i wish not.

[@ernestburden5614]

The 3 point system would I think change the way teams played at the end of a "tie" game. I would like it.

[@Jweldsandlifts]

I’m gonna mix it up.. Reg Shutout win = 3 pts Reg win = 2 pts OT win = 1 pt OT loss = 0 pts Reg Shutout loss = -1 pt

[@mactheknife7049]

3 for a regulation win. 2 for an overtime win. 1 for a shootout win, or better yet do away with the damned shootout and allow ties again.

[@guccilibrarian4728]

I can't be convinced that the Caps were the right team to make the playoffs over Detroit last year. Washington's playoff performance was absolutely abysmal, regardless of how good they are right now

[@pomerlain8924]

Make OT 10 mins at 3-on-3, which would drastically lower the amount of shootouts to the point where the NHL would have to get rid of it. And bring ties back. Let's see how teams do when they can't rely on a skills competition to get the extra point. The better teams will know how to get the wins in regulation or OT and the weaker teams will be the ones settling for a lot of ties.

[@Baseball1984]

I believe a loss is a loss and you don't get crap if you lose in OT.

[@adambarnes4191]

Leagues will always favor point and playoff systems that keep the most amount of fans interested. MLB has added 2 extra rounds of playoffs. Football added wildcards. NCAA has play in games now. More than half of NBA teams make the playoffs. Love it or hate it I don't see teams leaving money on the table by limiting parity.

[@Jackrabbit9961]

Personally I think the NHL should go to 3 point regulation win 2 pt ot win and 1 pt ot loss. It would make teams go for it more at the end of regulation. Also I would change it so if it goes to a shoot out both teams only get 1 pt. Shoot out wins are the tiebreaker. Make it an over and back rule If OT stays at 3 on 3.

[@Rex73777]

3 point system. 3 for Regulation wins 2 for OT win 1 for OT loss. This makes sense, a regulation win should be more valuable than an OT win. This is coming from an Islanders fan who as the OT merchants of the league would be hurt badly from this change.

[@iliaponomarev1624]

5 point system 5 for a win 4 for OT win 3 for SO win 2 for SO loss 1 for OT loss

[@KingKabalIII]

Most importantly, no shoot out. Just make OT 10 minute 3 on 3.

[@JohnnyReno71]

I’m a Rangers fan and I can’t agree more. This would make teams try to win rather than going to OT

[@jkliao6486]

Except the current system also means regular win is more valuable than an OT win, just not as valuable as in your system.

[@Kanooky_Jones]

I can't stand points for OT losses. You win or lose--every game is that way. If you want to implement ties, then you add an OT point. Otherwise, it's a sh*t scale.

[@RickinBaltimore]

So we should be getting the news video on the Bruins firing Jim Montgomery soon huh?

[@cgheezey1]

someone's gonna mention this, so i'll nip it in the bud. he's saying "parity" not "parody"

[@FHL-Devils]

10 minutes 3v3 OT with a 20 second shot-clock, then shootout where the losing team gets ZERO points. 3v3 OT should be the most exciting part of the game, so have more of it, and effectively ban hogging the puck during it. Shot clock implementation (since nobody wants stoppages), buzzer goes for a 1/2 second, and violating team cannot touch the puck after the buzzer ENDS (until the other team takes control of the puck). That gives a chance for a dump if the puck is on-stick, but they can't wind up and hammer it down to the other end from their own zone.

[@timsmith428]

I don't like that a team in the east gets into the playoffs, with less points than a team in the west...who miss the playoffs..

[@dondonaldson1684]

Why when a game that goes to OT awards a total of 3 pts when a win in regulation awards 2. Consider a diff system... that if a team wins in OT they get 1.5 and the team losing gets 0.5. This isn't the same as 3 for reg, 2 for OT win and 1 for OT loss.

[@jared4walsh]

The Hockey Guy Bruins announced the firing of head coach Jim Montgomery

[@MikeysLab]

What if they made a shutout be 3 points?

[@JarradBruessel32]

The system works fine as is. No point in messing with it

[@Mythandor]

I'm okay with the points system, what'd I'd like for them to change is playoff format. 1-8 in each conference is just so much cleaner and rewards the better teams more

[@AlergicToSnow]

@@Mythandorso the regular season is pretty much meaningless?

[@slickshewz]

​@@AlergicToSnowThe regular season has always been meaningless, and will always be meaningless once the postseason starts.

[@pomerlain8924]

​@@AlergicToSnowIt's already meaningless when you know by Christmas which teams will finish top 3 in the division. Everybody knew Toronto was going to play Boston or Florida in the opening round by Thanksgiving, last year.

[@steveb9713]

@@AlergicToSnowodd take, it used to be 1-8 and the season was meaningful.

[@fredhenrick]

I think its worth a try

[@hockeylife21]

One of my least favorite Isles jerseys

[@hammerhyena4207]

The only rational solution is to dump the point system entirely and keep ROWs for tie-breakers. And there's no such thing as a loser point. Each time is awarded a point for being tied at the end of regulation. The extra point is for the winner determined in OT or SO. No one is given a point for losing. It drives me up a wall.

[@matthewsimonds3346]

Why should ROW count over RW? Regulation wins show a teams winning under standard 5v5 play. 3v3 isn’t normal hockey

[@iliaponomarev1624]

@hammerhyena4207 I can't get behind that because wins aren't created equal. Regulation win is the only proper win. Win in OT or SO is just a glorified tie.

[@PaulaBruce-n9v]

Bruins fire Monty, The Goalie holds out for more money and then misses training camp and is not ready for the season and the coach get’s fired? I’d blame management for dragging their feet on signing Swayman for most of the bad start. You were going to pay him… just do it earlier and start on time with the rest of the league and maybe the record would be better.

[@habinations]

hello again

[@Renegade322]

I just.. there are a lot of the things in the league, this just doesn't bother me at all, I also really disagree with the anti-shootout mentality sometimes the game just needs to end when its 1 of 82 in a season.

[@Defy5]

Ties please!

[@Deadmanwolfpac93]

Do you get THE POINT?

[@johnfeeley7094]

Jim Montgomery fired. .714 Win%. Obviously it's his fault Swayman missed camp & Lindholm is terrible & Marchand is old & Pasta has no one to play with, all on Monty🙄

[@mobailey6666]

Get rid of the loser point

[@HannesFar]

Us people are to dumb to understand how the 3point system works

[@dataminerdaniel]

Old Hartford Whalers fan here completely agreeing with Hockey Guy here. Wins Losses and Ties is really elegant! Everything can be summarized in one number, games above .500.

[@nedeninja420f8]

A tie , Is never the answer.

[@slickshewz]

No ties. Ties are amazingly awful to watch. Wins and losses with overtime/SO tracked as tiebreakers. Drop the point system entirely.

[@pomerlain8924]

Ties show what actually happened, and give proper view of where a team sits. If a team is settling for a lot of ties, it will hurt their chances at making the playoffs. You take away the Flyers 3 shootout wins and 1 shootout loss, and their record looks quite weak.

[@slickshewz]

@pomerlain8924 you're ignoring the fact that everyone else's records would look different as well. Can't have the incentive of a tie. Teams play differently when it's all or nothing. The point of professional sports, is entertainment.

[@pomerlain8924]

​@@slickshewzThat is the point. The better teams will be the ones that are getting the wins and not settling for a lot of ties. The mediocre teams will be the ones that are constantly getting ties. All the shootouts do is inflate records and make some teams look better than what they actually are. Prime example is the 2010 Coyotes record. They were 50-25-7 for 107 points. Looks strong on paper, until you look at their record and see that they played 20 shootouts, winning 14 of them. Take those shootouts away, and their record is 36-25-20-1 for 93 points. Not that strong.