Revisiting the Time Mark Messier Became a Canuck

[@sportsrook8282]

Mark Messier demonstrated tremendous leadership for every team* he played for. *Vancouver not included

[@christhornycroft3686]

2 teams.

[@ravlalli9249]

Had*

[@Uncle_Troy]

Speaking of which, was he on the ice when his old teammate Marty did the thing to Brashear which we shall not mention?

[@RIUUI007]

@@Uncle_Troy Yes, Messier was dressed for that game. He had an assist and his TOI was 16m 45sec. I don't remember if he was actually on a shift when it happened though.

[@kevinmoore5053]

Yeah he never really played FOR Vancouver

[@getkimber]

why would you remind us....his name might as well be voldemort in Vancouver

[@shiv3510]

People in Vancouver have no problem saying his name, they just put a "Fuck" before it

[@jimmykarlsson2567]

Messier for prime minister 💪💪💪

[@jfayiii]

This comment/ this feeling... ever get that feeling that somehow, that just maybe, the fanbase is a little overwrought? Maybe it shares part of the blame?

[@coastaku1954]

Don't blame Messier, blame the rest of the Canucks. Hell when Gretzky went to the Rangers, did he win any cups with them? Nope, because the Rangers sucked so much it dragged the great one down, same thing with Messier and the Canucks. Quit finding scapegoats for your problems and solve the actual problems

[@chrisolson2846]

"Thanks for the Mess".

[@jordansailer5328]

Canucks “unofficially” retired Wayne Maki number 11 when he died. That was the reason they just put it back in service because of Messier. I don’t believe it was ever hung in the rafters. Maki family complained but they did it anyway

[@Outta-hz1ej]

Honoured, right?

[@RRaquello]

Wayne Maki was actually a very good player. A hard nosed forward who could score. One of the best Canucks during their early years.

[@holoholopainen1627]

There IS a RUMOR - That FAMILY MAKI - liked that - with MESSIER Finally came with some #11 LEADERSHIP ! Everybody LOVED MAKI - as MESSIER !

[@thecoolguynamedal]

Wayne maki was hot garbage

[@andrewjmschroeder]

Messier's play on the ice while in Vancouver wasn't bad, but he was basically an anti-leader in the locker room. While Keenan was ripping guys to shreds, his buddy, Messier would just sit by the wayside and go unscathed. The late 90s Canucks team was basically a civil war between Keenan/Messier and the rest of the team.

[@broadstreet21]

I read Messier's autobiography. He was warned ahead of time to expect a locker room that was divided into factions, something he never experienced before. His big regret is that he didn't play diplomacy to weave the factions together, partially because he never expected he'd have to do that. His side of the story, sure, but given the benefit of the doubt, at the time, the Canucks were really falling into a malaise, they were not playing as a team. One good reason is because Linden, as good as a leader he was, could only hold the respect of Bure and Mogilny for so long (given he barely had a quarter of their talent). Mogilny, in particular, was like a Kessel, on and off, lacking in commitment - and his attitude would have rubbed off on Bure, who was already dissatisfied with his pay. These two gravitated to Messier, sure, but Bure's good friend Odjick stood with Linden. The rift hence accelerated.

[@Entearity]

Looking back at those Orca jerseys just reminds of the Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison and Ohlund Era.

[@Andyanddiana467]

As a Ranger fan, I remember the shock of Mess leaving. NYR and Van both suffered from the move.

[@christhornycroft3686]

At least you got a cup out of it and a jerk who tried to end our captain’s career.

[@pxik9501]

wish he never left New York

[@psycho4444]

He was done in 97 writing was on the wall

[@patricklee4581]

the only reason Canucks signed him was because the night before they lost Gretzky

[@psycho4444]

@@patricklee4581 year before

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

I remember attending the Heritage Classic, them playing an ad with Messier during intermission and the crowd loudly booing that they stop playing it after like the second time lol

[@historyrepeating]

Yes I was there! It was hilarious. Plus the guy beside me was apparently a big Messier fan and friends were laughing at him bc of it

[@foodmaster999]

I was also there too. Probably the best moment of the Heritage Classic for me lol

[@tcantin2321]

I talked with few Canucks fan while I was living in Vancouver, and everyone of them hated Messier with a passion. I wasn't aware of all that history and how Messier divided the team. A very interesting story indeed.

[@norz72]

I never looked into Messier's age when he joined the team, it really puts the "why" the team failed into perspective. This Canuck organization continues to be ran horribly.. hopefully one day... one day things will go smoothly.

[@tcantin2321]

@@norz72 I do hope for all you canucks fans

[@artvandelay1967]

Even guys with local ties to Vancouver (glenn anderson) were hated during the Oilers dynasty. It was bad enough we lost to them, but they enjoyed running up the score more than any team ever has. So then to see them sign their arch nemesis in Messier.. and in the process ditching both Linden and fan fave Bure, well thats too much for us nuckleheads to take. Fuck Messier

[@September2004]

I have wondered what people outside of Vancouver thought of Messier's time here.

[@coastaku1954]

@@September2004 Here's my take: Vancouver sucked so much that they thought an aging Messier could be the silver bullet, instead of actually fixing the problems

[@tysheinin8733]

I was 12 and soooo excited at the time. I lived in POCO and remember that newspaper cover. I also vividly remember being incredibly confused as to why we weren't winning every game lol!

[@gordfranks6825]

I lost a lot of respect for Messier when he took the "C" from Linden. A great leader doesn't make it about himself. He could have helped the leadership group without the "C".

[@lessthanthreemetal]

He publicly said he wouldn't do it too

[@natedicksonmedia]

Takes the C, forces them to unretire a number, sues them for even more money than they should've paid him... what a class act

[@coastaku1954]

@@natedicksonmedia Gives him the C thinking he'll repeat what he did in Edmonton and New York, Gives him a number they Unofficially retired, Get's sued because they breached his contract. It's not Messier's fault, it's the Canucks fault, you didn't watch the video

[@SirManfly]

@@natedicksonmediayou know you love the guy!! 👌

[@broadstreet21]

Linden voluntarily handed over the C. Messier merely told him to do what he thought is best and. And in his perspective, Linden was about putting the team ahead of himself, and he could not justify not turning his captaincy over to a guy who won six rings. Sure, it's easy to accuse Messier of being passive-aggressive in demanding the captaincy like that, but put yourself in Linden's shoes, it just makes more sense to turn the captaincy over.

[@StevexOwnz]

"Ah shit. Here we go again...," - CJ

[@thegoldrobber]

I had just moved to Vancouver at that time. Rumour had it, Trevor stood up between periods of a game and began a 'we can do this" speech. Messier abruptly told Linden to sit his ass down. The beginning of the end of Linden in Vancouver, and the Messier fiasco.

[@andyorenzo2449]

I’m pretty sure it was Keenan who berated Linden and told him to shut up- I think the perception (which probably has truth to it) was that Messier wanted Mike Keenan to come in and try what worked in NY, but it backfired and a lot of the Canucks players looked at Messier as being more of a management type making decisions with the coaching staff above the players as opposed to a guy really playing with them. I don’t think Messier was ever accused of yelling or belittling anyone more than he wasn’t playing hard enough and was colluding with Keenan while Keenan belittled and tried to clean house

[@thegoldrobber]

@@andyorenzo2449 You might be right about Keenan telling Linden to sit down and not Messier. On a side note, I was at a Vancouver Tim Hortons and Keenan was at a table next to me talking with someone. He said he liked Vancouver in the Summer but hated the rain in Winter. Too bad he didn't coach the AAA baseball team.

[@broadstreet21]

The rumour was true - except it wasn't Messier telling off Linden, it was Keenan. Happened during a game with the Blues, Linden was in the locker room, trying to encourage and motivate his teammates like a good captain, when Keenan just lit into him and berated him in front of the whole team. Not long afterward, Linden was traded away. I read Keenan's autobiography. While he didn't talk about going off at Linden, he did say that he couldn't have two leaders in the room - it's bad chemistry. He had no option but to trade one away, and it made too much sense to stick with the one guy with whom he worked together and won a Cup (not to mention five more before his time). On paper, Keenan was right. But in practice, he was dealing with the Canucks, and Linden was the Canucks. Trade him, you lose respect of the entire team, and the fanbase.

[@thegoldrobber]

@@broadstreet21 Thanks for the story. It makes things more clear. Appreciate you.

[@sevantookmanian]

I've always wondered what the whole deal was about. Excited for this one.

[@PFB1994]

As a Ranger fan, it's even more amazing the Rangers gave him about the same contract (3 years , 20 million) after his debacle in Vancouver. Messier missed the playoffs his last 7 seasons.

[@September2004]

@Vincent Daly The original commenter is a Rangers fan. And you must care somewhat if you decided to post and cry about Canucks fans when it was a Rangers fan commenting.

[@PFB1994]

@Vincent Daly I'm not really blaming Messier. But how can an organization that 3 years prior said he is no longer worth All Star first line money and he is aging, then watch that prove to be true in Vancouver, still decide to go out and give him #1 All-Star Center money for 3 years? They did that over and over with a lot of other players too.

[@blueshirtshockey93]

He is the only person to Captain 2 different Stanley cup teams The guy is a Legend!

[@cwsam1256]

I stopped being a season ticket holder after Canuck's 2nd year with Mark Messier. I was infuriated with his lack of care when the team missed the playoffs. The worse times for a Canuck fan.

[@bobsmith962]

Well he got paid

[@coastaku1954]

Wow, how petty are you?

[@moonswan7587]

That old paper is a great find.. Love that 2 page spread of a young baby faced Thornton and Canuck Messier

[@eliskagray1546]

I love these hockey stories, news. Make more like these. Like the run Toronto maples leafs had in 93.

[@TheManFromDonair]

I moved to Vancouver in 1999 for a couple of years and there was a stench in the air left over from Messier and Pat Quinn. Fans seemed real happy to move on at that point. I was glad I got to miss that and see Naslund/Morrison/Bertuzzi and the early Sedin twins instead.

[@NickPoeschek]

I remember turning on the TV and hearing the news about Messier signing and was absolute fuming. Never forgave him for 1994, the fact that he then drove both Trevor Linden and Pat Quinn out of town and brought in Mike Keenan made it so much worse. My earliest memories as a Canucks fan are as a kid from the mid-late 80s but they Messier era was easily my least favourite period. Went to a couple of games and it seemed pretty clear he didn’t give a crap.

[@hotdogwater7037]

are you related to rudy?

[@NickPoeschek]

@@hotdogwater7037 Ha, yeah, he’s my uncle.

[@hotdogwater7037]

@@NickPoeschek oh man that rules. he was a tough SOB

[@ssboooy4153]

@6:24 you just described the Canucks right now. Yippie can’t wait

[@kingsally2864]

THG, can you please do a video on the career of Vancouver Canucks legend Mats Sundin?

[@Losrandir]

Haha you're digging blood out of your own nose my friend

[@pancyclosis]

I love this format. I was watching hockey during this era but obviously didn't hear anything about this growing up, but I do remember when Mark left NYR after Wayne showed up and they had that run to the Eastern Conference Finals (I was looking for goalies to emulate and Mike Richter impressed me - how could he keep his eyes on that Fox puck with the tail?) A great, well-rounded take, a good tie-in to contemporary trends, and a reflection on the matter after the fact. I'm sure you have a lot of primary material from throughout the years that discuss hot topics, I'm excited to see the playlist develop

[@LSA30]

Your original Messier video was one of the first I watched, this brings me back!

[@obey2dmax]

Shannon thank you for enlightening us fans in general. I know there were hatred towards Messier and Canucks, but didn't realize it was so deep rooted and maybe to this day, die hard Canucks fans don't want to uncrate this subject. Kings Fans used to loathe with passion Rob Blake when he was traded and ended up winning with the Avs and signed with SJS made it worse, but I guess winning cures all the pain and all the hatred were buried with it. Kings Fans were more understanding with Luc, but with Blake back then we would boo and jeer everytime he touches the puck.

[@ll7868]

Moose was always one of my favourite players since his early Oiler days, I felt bad for him in Vancity, but out of that mess the Canucks ended up with the West Coast Express, Jovocop and the Sedin twins.

[@patricklee4581]

what? How does messier turn into WCE Jovo and the twins? Out of all those, you can say he influenced Bertuzzi coming over.. Morrison was Mogilny, Naslund was Stojanov, both of whom Messier had no bearing on. Jovo was Bure, The twins were McCabe Can I have what you're smoking?

[@artvandelay1967]

@@patricklee4581 he said 'out of that mess' so more than just Messier, but : Messier in, meant Linden out for Bertuzzi,McCabe and |Ruttu!

[@JHockeyFan]

@@patricklee4581 If Messier doesn’t go to Vancouver, they don’t collapse as hard and sell off to lead to WCE and Sedins

[@diggsfather]

i cant believe you went 10 and a half minutes before mentioning mike keenan. with messier in vancouver ive always imagined it as him and keenan joined at the hip

[@JustBob-sw4rf]

I wonder how many times an NHL team has signed a well past his prime, super star player to super star money and ended up being disappointed by the on ice result? It indicates that even management can’t see the obvious. That being that age and wear and tear take their toll on ALL players.

[@bikingD]

Best Vancouver jersey is the original rink with the hockey stick. As for Messier after hearing the Burke story about Gretzky and the Canucks sure over the years he was the consultation prize. Never knew it at the time but 100% now.

[@RRaquello]

I agree. I really liked the original Canucks uniforms, especially when I was a kid. I was about 9 years old when the Canucks came into the league and I dug those uniforms right away.

[@TheBoltactionrifle]

I remember after he did those commercials for Lay's chips and some Canuck fan had a sign at a home game that said, "Hey Mark, I bet you can't score just one."

[@rozzie101]

Oh that Mark Messier as a Canuck look back. I remember it well. @ the time the Canucks signed Messier, I remember thinking.... what is all this about. Mark and Mike Keenan, destroyed the Canucks team. Bure wanted out, and Linden was traded. What a disaster. Then years later, Mark take the Canucks to court. Why? After he left, he was told that the Canucks were of more value. And under Marks old Canuck contract, he deserves more money. Wins the court case, and Mark who isn't a Canuck at the time.... gets millions from the Canucks. So, Marks 3 years.as a Canuck the Canucks didn't make the playoff. What a great leader, I say with sarcasm.

[@coastaku1954]

None of that is Messier's Fault though, that's the Canucks organization's fault bro

[@vinceniederman]

@The Hockey Guy I Remember When This Happened From a Young Flyers Fan at The Time and Bad Choice by Vancouver Without Question Since Mark Did Beat Them in the 1994 Cup Finals!

[@Oilers1972]

Would love to see the Bure video. One of my favourite players not from the Oilers. He was so fun to watch. Those 94 playoffs with Bob Cole calling the games. Bure flying around hitting Rangers in the first few mins and Bob Cole and the Vancouver crowd going nuts. Oh or the game 7 overtime against the flames. When they were down 3-1 in the series, I got cocky with my Flames fan friend and doubled down on our bet they would still win the series. That’s a goal I will never forget.

[@Oilers1972]

@@matthewdaley746 , nothing strange about it. The owner had money issues and started selling off the team....starting with Wayne Gretzky. Actually Wayne didn’t even have an NHL standard contract with the Oilers. He had a personal services contract to the owner.

[@tdemko30]

He who shall not be named

[@holoholopainen1627]

Wayne #11 MAKI

[@davidp3051]

Hands down the best hockey channel out there.

[@MrJonnySterns]

This is the most incredible break down of what I lived through , absolutely incredible job

[@leftcoaster67]

#11 is for Wayne Maki. He died of brain cancer, and there was an understanding by ownership #11 would be out of circulation. It was never formally retired. Then ownership changed.

[@thecoolguynamedal]

Maki was garbage

[@JohnpaulDejoria666]

They were under new ownership at the time

[@jameswhyte2404]

I agree with THG, the Messier period with Keenan was the darkest days of this team's history and that's saying something given the woes of their early years coming in as an expansion team and the mid-late 80's. Messier and Keenan seemed to do all they could to tear down a very good, albeit underacheiving and aging core.

[@tehrybite]

Shannon is looking good on that magazine cover

[@leftcoaster67]

PTSD! PTSD! Alert! Alert! Why did you go there? Aaaaaaaagh.

[@risboturbide9396]

Great video, man! Still can't eat Lays potato chips because Messier is linked to them.

[@doaftheloaf]

not missing much, they've got no flavor anyway.

[@tarpsoff57]

It’s funny tho Gretzky actually said of Mess: “He’ll never be traded (from the Oilers)” and we’ll look at him now.

[@blueshirtshockey93]

Mess will always be a hero to me. He brought a Cup to NYC after 54 yrs of agony.

[@doaftheloaf]

that was more leetch and richter.

[@murray1978]

This was a good video. This would be a good series 'Revisiting the Time....." You should do one on Gretzky going to LA.

[@christhornycroft3686]

I was tempted to give this a thumbs down because it was about Messier as a Canuck, but I’m not that mean. LOL. Mean Mark was the guy who hit Trevor when he was down at the end of game 6, and then he chased him out of town when he got here. And you’re right - I HATE the orca as a fan since 1998 because it reminds me of Messier. I hated the guy when he came here. But of course, my uncle bought me a Messier jersey, which got lost in a move. I obviously found it easy to make peace with that “loss.” The orca should have died when Messier left. Whenever I see that jersey I think of Mean Mark.

[@painnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn]

Imagine hating the orca because of something that happened in the past 🤡

[@RushAnthem69]

@@painnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn it was a simple story of association. I found it kinda funny and interesting, if you struggled to see that I suggest some reading comprehension classes.

[@derkaiserzen]

I guess it's a same things with San Diego Chargers blue helmet. People hate it bc they associate it with Ryan Leaf.. But I associate it with LT, Shawn Merriman, Rodney Harrison and Junior Seau.. But I get it why people hate it

[@RushAnthem69]

@@derkaiserzen People forget how good insanely Merriman was. He was basically a diet-Lawrence Taylor his first 3 years in the league.

[@xNeo64]

when i see the orca jersey i think of Markus Naslund

[@voxmarsh6458]

Best game the Canucks played during that time was when they came to MSG with Mark and he scored and got the first star.

[@timburr4453]

he would only play motivated in spurts. Otherwise it was a 3 year vacation in the Pacific Northwest

[@eldonodeltrumpo7290]

In 2000 when Messier went back to the Rangers it was the same year His old buddy Glen Sather became the GM.

[@rebekah7635]

That whole thing was bizarre. It was hard to respect him after this. He squandered a lot of goodwill.

[@Mattblaze1477]

Bruins fan here....I also like the Orca logo. Very clean respectable Jerseys always for the Canadian teams I must say (Although Calgary has had some weird ones).

[@cinfamous]

one time somebody tried to sell me their canucks messier jersey. i told him for $100 i'll help him burn it

[@ll7868]

I have a 2005-06 Daniel Sedin Orca jersey, the dark one which was the away jersey at the time. The orca is my favourite Canuck logo, that's not saying much, I love the team but they've never had the best logos. Remember the 1995-96 red top/black bottom with the off-set yellow "V" skate jerseys? Those were hideous.

[@oceanbuoy6563]

No. I've blacked this part of the Canucks history out of my memory...Sorry, I'm still in denial.

[@Laniccal]

And there is the video we were going to get! Love the stuff, Shannon!

[@robbie4750]

This is the period where I gave up on hockey. Luckily the west coast express brought me back.

[@jtom68]

Messier single handily torpedoed the Franchise by getting Keenan hired and forcing Linden to hand over the C

[@DrDetfink]

Obviously New York Ranger fans consider Mark Messier a god. But what is not reported enough is the fact, Messier manipulated the Front Office to trade away young players, future 1st rounders for aging/oft injured vets which delayed Rangers rebuild by a good 10 years. After Gorton was fired, he tried to mettle again, volunteering his help to consult. Mess is a great player but I don’t miss this guy.

[@psycho4444]

This, Brendan Shanahan epescially

[@-KYUSS-]

Very interesting to know the whole story. Thanks!

[@chrisphillips348]

The horrible stain on a fabulous career. This is one of the things I point to when I name Yzerman the greatest Leader in NHL history. I still shake my head as I think the ‘94 Cup went to Marks head. A little too much. But can I blame him? He was literally worshipped in NY. Still a horrible 3 years

[@MikeSmith-vo2yt]

They forgot to get Lowe, Kurri, Anderson, Tikkanen, Beukaboom and Graves as well

[@schizm9321]

We had Tikkanen. lol.

[@holoholopainen1627]

Didnt TIKKANEN - bring any LEADERSHIP ?

[@schizm9321]

@@holoholopainen1627 intangeables

[@JJ-fg2wd]

Don't forget Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau!

[@iFyvie]

The mid-90's decline for the Canucks, for me, started with the Mogilny trade. They gave up a lot of youth/depth/grit for Alex and he didn't mesh at all with Bure (the two rarely were good at the same time during their partnership in Vancouver). The coach/goalie carousel along with the Messier acquisition were merely rearranging chairs on the Titanic. Burke deserves a lot of credit for correcting the course... which started with Mogilny being shipped out for Morrison and Pederson and the dismissal of Keenan.

[@bradcrawford5314]

I always wondered what Canucks fans thought of Messier. Thank you

[@stevecampbell9670]

I don't think that I can watch this one without a bottle of Jack to get me through it.

[@allsystemsgo8678]

As an Isles fan I absolutely loved this signing.

[@allsystemsgo8678]

@Vincent Daly because it hurt the Rangers. They had just got to the conference finals. They would go on to miss the playoffs for seven consecutive years when he left. 😊

[@lilwoodiewood3457]

@Vincent Daly umm what

[@lilwoodiewood3457]

@Vincent Daly the islanders have a better track record then the rangers 4 cups in 50 years is alot better then what 4 or 5 the rangers have in 100 years

[@lilwoodiewood3457]

@Vincent Daly Canucks r a** to u can't run your mouth lol u like the rangers and the Canucks 2 of the worst over the past 50 years for sure no cups get over yourself islanders literally had the worst gm ever to exist by far an they still got more

[@Lukejanssen1987]

I wonder if you could somehow contact some of these NHL players and ask to do interviews with them about these topics. I'd love to hear what the players have to say about these things. It be really cool.

[@ItzRomar]

Would love to see a Nazzy career video

[@MrDrunkenDane]

My favorite player growing up.

[@MayorTerwilliger]

After Messier left New York, he never played in another playoff game.

[@doaftheloaf]

not even when he went back and they led the league in payroll every year.

[@kylestoddart]

Im not a nucks fan.._but Pavel Bure and Messier are some of fav players. Messier Captain of Oilers, was my first jersey, I begged for Gretz got Mess, so I became his fan. Fun video!

As much as I disagreed with the decision at the time, Wayne Maki's #11 was never officially retired, nor was it ever "in the rafters". It had simply been "honoured" by the Canucks and never subsequently dawned by any other Canucks' player until Messier. I shared season tickets at the Colosseum, and the only sweater number "in the rafters" was Steamer's #12.

[@TheGreatNathan]

The Canucks management deserves blame for letting him have #11. Did they ask the Maki family before handing #11 to Messier? Not officially retired, but its all about respect to the fallen Canuck. #37 and #28 fall under the same boat. I don't necessarily blame Messier for taking #11. Management should know better.

@@TheGreatNathan I was a huge fan of Messier's and felt exactly the same way. I was commenting on Shannon's erroneous comment.

[@RC30018]

I saw guy wearing a Messier jersey at a game I went to back in March I was surprised he didn't get heat for that.

[@johanexxxx]

Ironically I just watched his other video about Messier with the Canucks a couple of days ago.

[@alexanderscavello6253]

By the way I recent found your KZbin channel, around the time of the Kraken draft...awesome videos. Keep up the great work.

[@alexanderscavello6253]

Ah yes Mark Messier...a guy whose elbow never met an opponents head it didn't like

[@BrodieBr0]

It was an interesting time for me with hockey in the 1990's. My whole family is heavily into hockey. We have Sabres fans, Rangers fans, Oilers fans, And Canuck fans. Many of us have came to cheer for all 4 teams over the years, myself included. I became a Canucks fan over a bet though. If Rangers won the cup in 94 I had to become a Canuks fan, if Canucks won my cousin became a Rangers fan. We all know how 94 went. So when Messier left the rangers to go to the Cauncks I wasn't as disappointed as most Rangers fans were....at first. As good as we was, Messier was a bad fit in Vancouver but as Shannon said not everything durn that dark time was his fault.

[@ourlittleadventures519]

Don't forget they had just lost out on getting #99 but Canuck management were absolutely idiotic in how they demanded 99 to sign when all he wanted was the next morning to talk things over with his family. Although, until the ultimatum he was going to sign with Canucks. So, then we HAD to get Messier.

[@Vladiator01]

I keep forgetting Messier was a Canuck its just weird

[@brianbenson3669]

Mmm. ... sounds a bit like this year ... "bring in OEL and if he and a few others (Pettersson, Huggy, etc) can have a bounce-back year ... we'll be back in the playoffs"!

[@mattmcclelland2372]

The Orca was way better than the yellow V. Holy moly is that awful.

[@jamesdouglas6190]

great subject matter, well done as usual

[@the6ig6adwolf]

The absolute worst era in Canucks history.

[@TrevorPhilips]

it is a great logo + also Canucks longest and most performance-successful logo but at the time was definitely very Corpo

[@TrevorPhilips]

well only if we only measure SCFs based on average wins, top player points, standings, etc pretty sure orca is a much better average….. I did the math once but Tbh it’s hazy so I hesitated to say I’m 100% sure lol

[@broadstreet21]

I'd been chatting with an Oilers fan about Messier and he says that it's overrated to call him the greatest leader in hockey - particularly above Gretzky. He says Messier only got that recognition because he twice did the impossible - won a Cup without Gretzky in Edmonton and then won a Cup in New York, a big market team that was cursed. It was a matter of perceptions. But he brought things back to reality - if Messier winning without Gretzky was such a big deal, didn't that make Gretzky himself a big deal in the first place? That he even got the Oilers as much success as they had under his watch, that made him a greater leader that Messier somehow had to live up to.

[@davideaston6944]

Leadership? Leadership starts by being an EXAMPLE for people to look up to. How do you become an example to anyone? Respect. Respect the voices, the personalities, the opinions around you. "I don't agree with that, but at least I respect what you're trying to say.", and I show you that I'm not lying through my teeth, by follow-up example. Messier showed ZERO respect, from day 1, to the organization and its history ("Maki's #11 IS MINE!, and I don't care why it's retired".), his coach ("I WANT MY COACH in here!", and out goes Renney and in comes Keenan.), or his teammates ("I WANT THE 'C'! I should have that!", and not only does it alienate half the team from him and his "leadership", it opens the door for several players to follow Linden, ARGUABLY the greatest LEADER the team ever had - with respect to Stan Smyl and The Sedins - out the door.). Messier was no "leader"; he was a spoiled, selfish, arrogant, a-hole. He always was! He played that way, from his days with The Oilers, through to his Edmonton Rangers days, and into Vancouver. Over-hyped OWNERSHIP DRIVEN move (I don't believe for a minute this was Quinn's deal), that backfired WONDERFULLY for that ownership group; HA-HA! Unfortunately, the fans watching paid the emotional price of seeing their team evaporate under this egomaniac.

[@JustMikeTV]

I did notice that Canucks went with the Orca the same year that Hartford moved to Carolina.

[@holoholopainen1627]

They Are still playing - with HARTFORD GREEN JERSEYS ! Bunch of JERKS !

[@xjpsmithx]

Next time you do a video on a teams cap can you go into how the performance bonuses work? Is there a limit on the dollar amount and how come it doesn't impact the cap?

[@historyrepeating]

If anyone wants more info on what was going on during those years I recommend an old HFBoards thread titled “Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time” - tried leaving a link but I think links get filtered out lol

[@memomelaza]

97/98 canucks, the last nhl team to rack up over 2000 pim in a single season. Usually even back then, pim taken by your own team and pim taken by the opponents were always pretty much within a single minute difference, yet the Keenan Canucks had something like 27 pim per game for, while only 23 point something pim against. They were a mess (no pun intended).

[@SnyderEMarx5]

As I understood it, there was a player rejection of Keenan. Messier was a big Keenan guy and there was friction with Mess and the rest of the team because of it.

[@Mineav]

Have you done a video on Mogilny's career? That would be an interesting one.

[@swedreamhack5308]

watch?v=taVS3d5rgiU

[@Mineav]

@@swedreamhack5308 Thanks

[@holoholopainen1627]

MOGILNYS - 76 Goals on Selannes ROOKIE YEAR !

[@getstakerized]

Not a Vancouver fan… but since the 70s, prefer the old school green & blue ‘hockey stick’ jersey, classic imo! Keep up the good work, excited for the regular season to start, and… Go Rangers! ;)

[@robins5798]

The moose is loose in British Columbia and it's a mess.

[@ryan4946]

I met Mark Messier great player but an ignorant attitude. For guy that makes a lot of money he sure ain’t happy. I guess this means having lots of money isn’t everything and being a jerk taints your reputation. Marty Mcsorley was a lot more kinder and actually listen to people conversations. Goons may be tough and intimidating on ice. but they sure are nice people off the ice, and more down to earth for less money.

[@boxvango9021]

Only one thing to say about him being a Canuck. That was messy, eh?

[@doaftheloaf]

you're fired.

[@WarioSaysSo]

Mark Messier's legacy is truly divided like a two-sided mirror! Arguably no player have made himself so divided among fans. One side reflects his merits and leader qualities that goes beyond many of the best ever in NHL. Captained 2 teams to Stanley Cup championships in both Conferences and became like an iron-man to play year-after-year to age 44! BUT.... The other side reflects an uggly portray of a dirty player who was as individual overrated = was only good when he was with those strong teams he won with. How greedy and money grabbing Messier gradually became, demanding insane salery + bonuses + benefits + salery insurences at advanced age of 38 AND to wear retired number 11# - And somehow, for no sane reason a team (Vancouver Canucks) AGREED and SIGNED ON the demands (?). That he soon also aquired the captain role from a fan-loved icon Trevor Linden) and then that same player gets humiliated and oppressed. How despite the insane amounts of tallents on the team, and Messier manafrs not only to not score impressive numbers on the ice, but also avt silent and uninterested in leading his team. Then is part of a rather seen "mutiny" in the franchise by getting the team gutted from its tallents to bring in players not needed and the team plunhes into 4 years of darkness. And when Messier leaves the team, he years afterwards demand $millions despite never lived up to anything of all he was given - and gets those money in court. So if you are a Oiler or Rangers fan, you love him - If you are a Canuck fan, you despise him! If you are neutral, you have a tough balance of the edge that is constantly wobbles as you look on all perspectives.

[@pwc1021]

Let's not revisit this......puleeeeez!!!!

[@orionhunt7011]

11 wasn’t officially retired, it was like bourdon’s 28

[@swedreamhack5308]

Ay the dark ages. I'm curious to know why Van thought that Messier would have the same impact to them as to NYR back in 94. It's like as if Stamkos went to Ottawa to give them a Cup, 2 years from now with a 11-12m hit.

As a life/franchise long fan, I can tell you that there were "dark ages" for the Canucks long before Mess showed up.

[@RR-mi8ge]

No thank you! no need to revisit this. Thanks

[@derkaiserzen]

Looking at this video.. I wish Shannon to cover about Jeff Carter tenure in Columbus. He's pretty much "Mark Messier in Vancouver" for Canucks fans for Blue Jackets fans .. Even worse, he won the cup with Kings TWICE, further rubbing the salt to the wound of Jackets fans

[@doaftheloaf]

no offense, but it's not even comparable. carter didn't want to play for cbj, but he didn't destroy the team.

[@anthonyhicks872]

"Sometimes.... it's a Messier situation." I see what you did there

[@nelsonw1267]

Terrible time as a Canucks fan. Though some silver linings such as the infamous Trevor Linden trade and getting important building blocks like Jovo. Still no Messier would've been better.