Debate: Should the minimum wage be $15 per hour?

Should the minimum wage be $15 per hour? Will laws that raise the minimum wage lead to higher unemployment? These questions were debated by Professor Donald J. Boudreaux of George Mason University, and Michael Konczal of the Roosevelt Institute. This event was hosted on September 16, 2016 by the University of San Diego's Center for Ethics, Economics, and Public Policy, and sponsored by IHS.
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[@philochristos]

One point that wasn't brought up is how raising the minimum wage could make it easier for huge businesses to become monopolies. For example, if you raise minimum wage enough, Home Depot will be able to pay it, but smaller locally owned hardware stores will not. So they will go out of business, and Home Depot will remain.

[@pierre-rose7783]

@Sam Harper...Very good point ! We're living in a vicious chain reaction where everything has become "too expensive" How can we possibly "reverse" this mess ?

[@baph0met]

​@@pierre-rose7783Get rid of regulations, like 99% of them. Also allow monetary competition, so people aren't required by law to use the state currency. Close the central bank and most ministries, and then lower taxes. In 5 years people will have double the money, 100x less burreaucracy, more competition, lower prices, higher wages.

[@PornIsHate]

In 1980, corporate CEOs made an average of 42 times more money than their average workers. But over the last two decades, CEO pay has ballooned to nearly 350 times more than an average employee, according to Sarah Anderson of the Institute for Policy Studies. The organisation reported that nearly 80 per cent of S&P 500 companies paid their CEO more than 100 times the median salary for their average worker in 2018, while nearly 10 per cent of those companies paid median incomes that were below the federal poverty line for a family of four.

[@FletchforFreedom]

You need to find a source that at least attempts to be reliable. The IPS has never been anything like that. In fact, they are doing the invalid comparison using AFL-CIO data (comparing only the top 500 CEOs to the average worker. In fact, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average CEO makes less than $300K (5 - 6 times what the average worker does). Oops. The fact is that workers have literally never been better compensated in history.

[@FletchforFreedom]

@Mark Willoughby No, we're talking about economic illiterates here. Yes, $300K (actually $287K) is greater than $15K but then *THAT'S COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT* (obviously). You don't compare an average to the top 500 or to the minimum. You compare an average to an average and the average individual income is $54K (not $15K). This is because, in the (abundantly evident) competitive market for labor, works have absolutely no problem being fully compensated for the value of their labor services and the minimum wage is completely useless. The median full time worker makes more than $25/hr. This notion that people are paid "next to nothing" is so massively incompetent as to render the credibility of anyone taking such a stance absolutely nonexistent. Literally the *ONLY* thing minimum wage laws have ever resulted in is disemployment (cuts in hours, benefits, perks and training and outright job loss) increasing unemployment, increasing poverty, increasing welfare rolls and the cost to taxpayers and *decreasing* the financial resources available to impacted workers. Yes, we're talking about other human beings here so why haven't you bothered to look into the issue and the very real harm done to the most vulnerable among us by minimum wage laws? Or is all you are interested in is virtue signaling how much you "care"?

[@FletchforFreedom]

@Mark Willoughby I'm saying that it's an historical and economic fact that workers are fully compensated for the full value of their labor services. Minimum wage laws have never (because they can't) altered this dynamic in the slightest, instead only putting people out of work. Workers are entitled to no more than to be paid for the value they contribute so, no matter how successful a company may be, no employer will *ever* voluntarily lose money on any investment, including an insufficiently productive employee. And, in fact, the record is clear that minimum wage hikes have typically resulted in business closures among those businesses employing lower wage workers. You also missed a fact I pointed out in the earlier post. Your assertion that "taxpayers pick up the slack with social programs" but, again, minimum wage laws *INCREASE* poverty and the cost to taxpayers. Poverty in this country is not the result of inadequate pay, but of inadequate employment (which minimum wage laws make worse). The continually employed full time worker in poverty in this country is almost entirely mythological and, again, this is in no small part because workers have no problem making more. Fewer than 250,000 workers make the federal minimum wage out of 164 million workers. Companies don't need to "care" but they *CAN'T* underpay workers or they will lose them to competitors in the labor market and lose money in higher turnover costs (which is not only the only outcome consistent with basic economics but has been empirically proved time and again). Of course workers bring value (the risk adjusted marginal revenue cost of the labor services provided) and, again, they are fully paid for it.

[@lan-hkum2933]

@Flentchforfreedom, are you sure “workers are fully compensated…” more than ever? I don’t think so (30) years ago, most people who worked full time in Seattle could live in a nice house and attend college without having to borrow money. Now, a day most college graduates have to work their entire life to pay off students loan and mortgage.

[@mactheplumber3839]

That's what happens when peoysell out. Y'all working yourselves to death making someone else rich then complaining about it is the most ironic thing ever isn't it?

[@afkbender3686]

Unfortunately..I am skilled in many ways but what I should have done is to get one skill and put all my points into it.

[@garyjoancooper7765]

The market place should determine wages. A business will pay whatever is necessary to get people to work.

[@ferdburful6352]

Minimum wage should have been tied to inflation long ago. Congress has dragged their feet for so long we are now discussing a sizable raise in the minimum wage. This is all on Congress

[@grahamben7578]

i guess im randomly asking but does any of you know a trick to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot the password. I love any assistance you can give me.

[@coltliam2514]

@Graham Ben Instablaster =)

[@grahamben7578]

@Colt Liam I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@grahamben7578]

@Colt Liam it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy! Thank you so much, you saved my account :D

[@coltliam2514]

@Graham Ben glad I could help =)

[@matthewmurdoch6932]

@21mins. I get why more effort should equal raise, I don't have amy experiential reason to think un-earn and interactilable raise would equal more effort.

[@i1-L22Belarus]

It's true we live in a service industry economy. We're all serving each other b******* and plastic. There is no possible way that this country using fiat currency is ever going to be able to sustain itself. We are looking at inevitable inflation and lower wages and robots taking our jobs until we collapse. All of that said if the rest of the world keeps up with us in the Great decline, then there's really nothing to lose. We'll all be free, not be required to serve each other, and have robot slaves that do all the work. And at that time the only thing that will matter is the culture that were left with.

[@nthperson]

Here is a fundamental problem with increasing the wages of all workers to at least $15. That problem is that market forces will result in an increase in the cost of rental housing owned by private investors and real estate companies. There is already a serious shortage of affordable rental housing in the United States. Increase the ability to pay by tenants (i.e., a demand side increase in disposable income) without a significant increase in the supply of affordable housing, and the increases will in just a few years end up in the pockets of the owners of rental housing. Communities need to invest in the construction of affordable housing. Millions of new units are needed.

[@antfbi]

Shits increasing anyway! Housing prices have gone up 40% and the minimum wage hasn’t increased

[@nthperson]

@@antfbi And yet, economists select statistics that downplay the rise in the cost of living. The moral of the story: ignore reality and nothing systemic is threatened with reform.

[@nthperson]

@Bud Mangeski Agreed. We need real tax reform and provides the funds to building decent, permanently affordable housing (among other important social assets).

[@Galkatokk]

@Bud Mangeski "Guys, adding petrol to the fire is not gonna make it get any smaller." "So what's YOUR solution then?"

[@reginafisher9919]

Laugh out loud the minimum wage hasn't been raised since 1973 and the cost of rent is skyrocketing to the point where you can't even work a full-time job and afford a one bedroom apartment that's the biggest choke I've ever heard why don't we all just become homeless now because if you cannot work full time and afford a place to live what the hell does it matter

[@Bateman61405]

Can someone explain to me where the idea that anyone that is working should be paid a “living wage” comes from? WTF does that mean?? Is the justification just a moral thing? So the high school kid working at McDonald’s needs to be able to pay for their housing/food and all their other expenses? Cost of “living” varies so much through the country. You’re not supposed to raise a family working a minimum wage job. Someone made some bad decisions if they find themselves in a position like that. It all boils down to the American family. It’s been destroyed and is where most of the issues in our country really stem from IMO That’s too much of an issue to try to fix for most people so we just blame every outside factor we can.

[@mattmieres]

Rugged individualism is a cancerous mindset

[@Bateman61405]

@@mattmieres I hope that’s sarcasm. Taking care of yourself and your family, if you choose to have one, by yourself is the mindset everyone should have. The government can’t legislate a good work ethic/values that strive people to achieve all they can in this country. That’s what parents are supposed to do and that’s why I say the breakdown of the American family is one of the main causes for the issues in this country.

[@exaucemayunga22]

If a high school student ca pay taxes, then yes, they should earn a livable wage.

[@Bateman61405]

@@exaucemayunga22 would you care to elaborate on what a livable wage is to a high school student? Also why do you think that? I’m generally curious because IMO “livable wage” is a purely subjective term. People have different lifestyles so what might be livable to one person won’t be livable to another.

[@derkchurk5879]

You aint wrong man, the destruction of the family unit and the general Hatred for fathers certainly helped put us here

[@sha9543]

why doesn't any university from GEORGIA, USA have any debates on YT like this?

[@robertdeffenbaugh9004]

It shouldn’t be a debate when increasing minimum wages lead to inflations and job loses.

[@LAkadian]

It shouldn't be a debate when the value of a dollar itself is steadily decreasing.

[@b4rs629]

Have you been sleeping the past 2 years?

[@robertdeffenbaugh9004]

@@b4rs629 Nope but you sure have.

[@nicoleanderson5545]

This debate didn't age well. Disregarding historic examples that resulted in the establishment of a minimum wage directly discards the economic theory that the market will result in higher wages on their own. Then you have the David Card who won the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2021 for essentially proving that minimum wages do not cause over inflation, reduction of jobs, and improve worker outcomes. Lastly, the global labor shortage that isn't going away.

[@matthewmurdoch6932]

@47mins. Please please explain WHY you don't think a $15 minimum wage would be appropriate for "most states"? What bad effect do you think would happen??

[@FletchforFreedom]

As minimum wage laws have never resulted in anything but disemployment and harm to workers they are nothing but bad.

[@davidjohnson8655]

Historically minimum wage was concieved to keep minorities from competing with the general population. I'd assume some states still want to keep Chinese immigrants from working for a dollar an hour out of slave communities. It's kind of hard for minimum wage to actually help in any other way, because every single basic good will increase in cost because someone has to be paid throughout the chain to provide those goods, not to mention basic services like fast food or convenience stores. That increase means everyone else demands a pay raise, so building management gets more expensive and that gets placed directly on your rent, it goes to the vehicles and everywhere else. Economists have never had a good case for minimum wage, its just been popular politically. Certainly more likely to get paid doing research on it.

[@devilsadvocate7296]

@@FletchforFreedom ok that’s nonsense think about the jobs that are minimum wage no they don’t stop employing shopping centres employees/ grocery stores you could argue that they make starting a new business harder but the main issue is companies don’t take the lose they increase the prices that shirt that food all cost more now the ceo doesn’t lose money the doctor and Lawyers have it in their contacts to have their wages increase with the cost of living you know who doesn’t? Those more middle end jobs like construction works who essentially just got a wage cut and will take years if not decades to build back up the jobs you take when you couldn’t afford to go to college and want your kids to have a better life then you could that is who you hurt

[@FletchforFreedom]

@@devilsadvocate7296 Sorry bit literally every word you've spouted is factually wrong. Very often in the wake of a minimum wage hike, employers *do* stop employing workers (there are numerous examples in every case). Those that don't cut hours, benefits and training, eliminate perks, end new hiring and let employees go through attrition. They may also increase prices (many confuse this with inflation) but that doesn't change the fact that minimum wage laws result in increased unemployment, increased welfare rolls increased poverty and decreased financial resources available top impacted workers. No doctors or lawyers have any such contracts. Union members often have clauses that increase their pay with a minimum wage hike (unions are the one group that may benefit from minimum wages due to decreased competition which is why almost all pro-MW "research" comes from union funded propaganda shops), but that's not the same thing. You need to do some actual research. Minimum wage laws have never been anything but entirely harmful to workers.

[@FalconsWhiteSox]

@@FletchforFreedom a lot of companies are paying 15+ now because of labor shortage. They "found" the money.

[@cramsa]

You people should be talking about THE MONETARY SYSTEM and why wages aren’t keeping up with inflation… otherwise you are just wasting your time.

[@pierre-rose7783]

If only we could start "reversing" the ever-rising inflation, that is the only solution, but it may not be possible !

[@baph0met]

Of course it is, switch to a better currency, one with a golden standard for example. And first and foremost allow monetary and banking competition, close the central bank. Let people choose their currency, ain't no one gonna use unbacked inflated currency, everyone will switch to naturally strong currencies, not this thought up nonsense the FED or other central banks make.

[@mama.danni.bell17]

Employment wages should not be based on market price or MSRP. Wages should fluctuate according to other pillars of society or the economy, like rents, or mortgages, or interest rates. If rents go up 5%, then employees wages should go up accordingly while also giving the corporations tax break for compliance with wages going

[@tarajoyce3598]

The origin of the minimum wage was to lift full time workers out of poverty. Does are current minimum wage do that? That means the minimum wage must equal the cost of living after deductions.

[@Vendrix86]

first guy with the glasses looks and sounds like hasanabi Also, Mike seemed extremely unprepared compared to Don

[@networth8754]

Wages are determined by labor markets. Paying a wage higher than the productive labor indicates in that market is inflationary and ultimately will do nothing to raise living standards.

[@shawn4888]

Yet there is no "productive labor indicator" that is independent of what the consumer can pay which is dependent on what they get paid. That means you lose by paying too little in the long run, but because so many business people are short sighted and don't realize that they dont support something they should support.

[@jordijimenez2634]

@Northern Horizon you’re no better than greedy CEO’s and politicians but again that’s the modern American mindset no wonder your country is going down hill

[@mactheplumber3839]

I'm teaching myself how to weld with a $198 welder from harbor freight, Facebook groups and KZbin. This is the best thing to watch. By the time I'm done practicing welding while watching this video, I'll be worth $15/hour in THIS ECONOMY. But hey tell me how you can't apply yourself to become worth more and we should all pay you more for the same quality/amount of work knowledge etc. Brb stomping this dumb debate.

[@victorlopes2082]

Meaning todays economic model depends very much in an slavery model in order to sustain itself, the case being that the monopoly of land where it all begun.

[@actorsinsider9967]

Minimum wage is just that minimum. Its what your given when you start. If you get $15/hr to start and if that is the ceiling of what that particular job can handle than it means that they have nothing additional to give anyone for raises and therefore no incentive to do well. Kind of like participation tropies. Also, if you think you get pushed hard on your job now just wait till they pay you $15/hr. They will expect 3 times more productivity from each individual and more apt to fire for very slight mistakes.

[@---ss1fb]

Well, probably they will fire people, but work must be done, so they'll have to pay more or nobody will work. If they replace some people with robots - it's good. It will increase productivity overall Unemployment may go down because of the growth of consumption

[@mattmieres]

Do you hear any evidence for these claims?

[@timothyplatt3300]

Why is it a ceiling? And why would we make policy based on such a particular situation… that’s really not how it works. I’d be more concerned with the overall effect a wage has on small businesses… which would effect how high minimum wage should be across the board. I’d argue it’s somewhere above $10/hr and below $13/hr

[@purposenhancement]

Yes the minimum wage should be raised at it's worst of emergency to 15hr for city, state, and Federal jobs. When are far from the 70's and the people of the career or job force in this future days and times needs a break in the hike of hours paid wages it's simply time we are in the world 2021 so come on man

[@FletchforFreedom]

Workers now make half again as much as they did in the 1970s (after adjusting for inflation). The "stagnation" myth has been long debunked ... along with the myth that minimum wage laws benefit workers.

[@eddiemarohl5789]

@@FletchforFreedom The only source that I have ever seen for that being debunked is from you and non reputable websites/articles. Try using google scholar and you'll see how many more papers prove it exist against the ones that say it's a myth. You're acting like that anti vax lady that found one article that proved her point and then does more "research" by looking specifically for articles that prove their point.

[@FletchforFreedom]

@@eddiemarohl5789 There is, again, one - count 'em - one official source for the data on real compensation. It is tracked by the St. Louis Fed and, if KZbin isn't twitchy with the links, you can find it here: fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB There are no "reliable" alternative sources with data on this. They either look only at wages (which is economically unsound) or simply lie their asses of too you - the Economic (sic) Policy Institute, Noam Chomsky, Bernie Sanders, anyone from Michael Reich's propaganda factory at Berkeley. As for using Google scholar, it completely vindicates my stance. Here, let me help you (to stop being the actual anti vax lady cherry picking mostly bogus nonsense to support her stance). Since KZbin makes many posts with links disappear, you'll have to put these in a search engine. Start with the four most comprehensive reviews of the research ever conducted. They show that nearly 80% of the research (and they cover nearly *all* of the research over the last 75 years) shows the minimum wage to be entirely harmful, nearly 20% is inconclusive and only a tiny handful of (mostly debunked - like Card & Kreuger; Schmitt et al; Dube et al; Doucouliagios & Stanley) "studies" show any benefit at all: "Google Books report of the Minimum Wage Study Commission" "Brown Gilroy Kohen The Effect of the Minimum Wage on Employment and Unemployment: A Survey" "Neumark Wascher Minimum Wages and Employment: A Review of the Evidence from the New Minimum Wage Research" Neumark Shirley Myth or Measurement: What Does the New Minimum Wage Research Say about Minimum Wages and Job Loss in the United States?" Additional resources: "50 Years of Research on the Minimum Wage For many years it has been a matter of conventional wisdom among economists" "Clemens How Do Firms Respond to Minimum Wage Increases? Understanding the Relevance of Non-Employment Margins" "Clemens Wither The Minimum Wage and the Great Recession: Evidence of Effects on the Employment and Income Trajectories of Low-Skilled Workers" Jardim Long Plotnick Inwegen Vigdor Wething Minimum Wage Increases, Wages, and Low Wage Employment: Evidence from Seattle" Other key sources on the minimum wage, pay levels, poverty, etc.: "BLS Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers 2020" "Usual Weekly Earnings of Wage and Salary Workers First Quarter 2021" "Income and Poverty in the United States: 2019 Current Population Reports (next in September) "The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most Nations of Europe Just Facts" And finally (it is economically impossible to underpay workers): "Monopsony in American Labor Markets EH.net" I have other resources certainly (this is my field after all) on benefits, child labor,. unions, etc. so feel free to ask. I just wish KZbin remained cooperative.

[@eddiemarohl5789]

@@FletchforFreedom A lot of your sources have holes in them. Take for example your poorest 20% argument here's a quote debunking the whole thing or at the very least making it not debate worthy. "This is BS. The article compares consumption data, not actual wealth. Just because America's bottom 20% consume more, doesn't mean they are richer is richer than the UK, as the article's data suggest. In fact, I've been to both poor parts of the UK, and of the US. Guess which was far worse. This article was written for readers to be self-congratulatory, and imagine themselves as "superior" to others. We are not. I would expect something like this from r/socialism, not you guys. I agree with you guys on a lot, but when you go ahead and act bigoted, like this, it's really offputting. Europe is my home, and I hate to see it belittled out of ignorance. I'm open to changing my mind if anyone is up for debate, btw. Edit: I'm going to quote u/Casual_Badass here: To quote from deeper in the linked article (emphasis mine): >The high consumption of America’s “poor” **doesn’t mean they live better than average people in the nations they outpace**, like Spain, Denmark, Japan, Greece, and New Zealand. This is because people’s quality of life also depends on their communities and personal choices, like the local politicians they elect, the violent crimes they commit, and the spending decisions they make. I would also be interested in a similar analysis on debt as well as income, not once is debt mentioned and I would be curious to see if it presents a different distribution. I have concerns on their application of PPP. For example, we know the USA spend more on healthcare, [regardless of method of adjustment for PPP](www.oecd.org/health/hospital-purchasing-power-parities.htm). If this is true also for the bottom 20% (I don't know that it is) then it could really just be the result of how expensive healthcare in the USA is despite adjustments for PPP and *not* necessarily a representation that the bottom 20% is healthier or has better access to healthcare. The same concern could be raised for other areas of expenditure (e.g. education). What this report really shows is that it's more expensive to be poor in the USA than it is to be an average person in many other advanced economies. But methodologically I do not think I would be comfortable drawing that conclusion either. There's a big risk when combining two different sources of data in an analysis like this where different methods are used to collect the data. For example, I wonder how taxes and government services are accounted for in each data set. Are products purchased with food stamps counted as consumption in both? It looks like it is in the [U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis](www.justfacts.com/document/consumer_income_expenditures_distribution_bea_2012.pdf) data but it's unclear to me the [World Bank data](data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.CON.PRVT.PC.KD) does or does so for every country in the same level of accuracy (it's likely very dependent on each country's own approach). I do not see anything noting an adjustment to the data to ensure a consistent counting method between the two sources and just because no comment is made it does not mean the two sources are reliable comparators. There is also the question of consumption when paid versus consumption when used. Commonly this is fundamentally the same thing. You went grocery shopping this week and spent $200, that was your consumption for groceries this week. But that is not always how consumption is expensed. For example, is a large hospital bill counted as consumption on use or when paid, if only when paid or only when used? I have concerns the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis collection method is inadequate to accurately capture this kind of information (in either the interview or diary approaches) particularly since these bills typically do not appear until some time after the service. So are we just counting the patient obligation at the time of service? Obviously that's inadequate. I would also be curious to know how representative the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis subject population really is because it sounds like a huge pain in the ass to participate and I have concerns the poorest 20% of Americans will readily participate in the 5 interviews and diary submissions. It's hard to imagine anyone choosing to spend time on participating in this regardless of income to be honest but the group most likely to have multiple jobs? Or a stable housing situation? Etc, etc. Even the authors of this article note the strength of the World Bank data is that it does not rely of household surveys - which is what the US data they are using is sourced from!"

[@FletchforFreedom]

@@eddiemarohl5789 None of my sources have holes in them, Yes, the data related to the bottom 20% is based on consumption data which is linked to income which is the basis for poverty statistics. So, yes, unequivocally, greater consumption data shows inarguably that people are richer (particularly, again, given the law of large numbers). The entire premise of your response is pure unadulterated ignorance. Bravo! As for poverty levels, the US has the highest poverty threshold in the world and has achieved record low poverty. I don't need to guess - the UK is worse. The problem with your quote mining is that you've taken it completely out of context. The point is that not that the American "poor" *as a group* are not doing better - which is the conclusion of the paper. The issue that the quote you've mined is two-fold, addressing (as the context clearly shows) is that aggregated data cannot be used as proxy for comparisons of individuals (which is the case for all such data comparisons) and that *personal decisions* (as expressly referenced) bear on the quality of life one enjoys. Nice try. I'm not sure why you'd be interested in an analysis of debt since it is a complete no sequitur and entirely irrelevant to the discussion but feel free to knock yourself out. Nor for that matter is the cost of healthcare by itself relevant as we are looking at comprehensive figures. That said, I completely concede that socialist intervention in the US healthcare system has been an unmitigated disaster and has vastly increased costs. At no time have I claimed that the US economy is perfect or even approaching any such thing. But given that Americans have greater access to healthcare regardless of cost (and those bottom 20% do not lack for treatment.... Nothing in the article can in any way be construed as to mean that its more expensive to be poor in the US. That's full bore delusional. And as for education, setting aside the fact that the chief cause of rising tuition is government throwing money at it, the US higher education system is so costly that only 44% of the US population has a college education as opposed to the far superior ... 39% in Sweden ... er. And given that OECD is used for all countries, the data set problem doesn't exist. In each case consumption, regardless of the income source (including public charity in each country is included). Taxes are irrelevant but publicly provided services are captured in international consumption figures by the OECD (which is why review has found the analysis to be consistent with international standards) your concerns notwithstanding. Accuracy is certainly an issue as, in every case, one must rely on officially published figures, but that caveat is applicable to every data point referenced in such a discussion and there does not exist a circumstance in which such inaccuracies could yield a data swing of a magnitude sufficient to render the conclusions of the comparison even slightly off let alone invalid. Your complains have amounted to disputing whether the average NBA player is taller than the average jockey because of variances in the height of their hair styles. There is no validity to them whatsoever. Albeit none of those is as economically incompetent as worrying about "consumption when paid [the only data ever available] versus consumption when used". Your concerns here are nonsensical, including your argument from incredulity (classical fallacy) about survey participation. You've attacked but a single source and didn't come close to landing a single blow. That's quite an achievement!

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

honestly if the min wage going to be 15. housing should at least be 2800 a month for apartments or if u own a house, u shouldnt have to pay money for mortgage. because how on earth u going to survive 15 an hour?

[@exaucemayunga22]

It doesn't matter how high the minimum wage is as long as the cost of living is also relatively high.

[@NickolaySheitanov]

No it shouldn’t it should be $15 per min

[@psychicspy]

Only negative rights exist.

[@melaniecotterell8263]

What would happen if there was no minimum wage?

[@eddiemarohl5789]

Depends but most likely business would get all the leverage for pay and screw the working population for profit. It would cause mass exploitation because now the businesses would have the power to wage starve the people. It would be to the point where people wouldn't be looking for good pay but just to be paid in general even if that pay is only 5$.

[@Tonyrg1988]

Massive deflation. It would usher in the largest market correction in economic history. Wealth would be transfered from people holding real assets to people holding u.s. currency.

[@FletchforFreedom]

Very little but all good. No deflation, no "exploitation" (as that Marxian idiocy has been debunked for a century), no wage starvation (ditto), no reduction in wages of any kind, and no asset transfers. All that would occur is additional employment at the margins and a gradual increase in worker pay as the required risk premium shrinks. That's all. Minimum wage laws have literally *NEVER* either raised pay levels or prevented them from falling and their elimination would have precisely zero direct impact on anyone now employed. It would make possible the *additional* employment of people currently unemployable, reducing poverty, reducing the costs to taxpayers and increasing economic growth but not by huge margins.

[@mattmieres]

There would be mass exploitation of the workers, worse than it is now

[@FletchforFreedom]

@@mattmieres Again, given the fact that the entire Marxian concept of "exploitation" was completely refuted more than a century ago (even if blithering idiots like Kulinski, Uygur, Seder, Pakman, and dimwitted Marxists - but I repeat myself - never got the memo) the chances of "mass exploitation" - or any at all in the (abundantly evident) competitive labor market - is precisely zero.

[@melaniecotterell8263]

Minimum wage just makes it more difficult for young people to enter the work force. Having a minimum wage and open borders makes it even more difficult. You can't expect employers to pay the employee more than the value that they provide.

[@TAMAsmith1965]

Thank you for that breath of fresh air!

[@Bateman61405]

I will never understand how this isn’t a known fact. If McDonald’s has to pay $15/20 an hour to a non skilled burger flipper, they’re not gonna hire a high school kid. They’ll demand some kind of work experience if they are even gonna hire anyone at all. High school kids won’t be able to even enter the work force, which is where high school kids should be working to start. Places like McDonald’s and Walmart lay people off and get machines to do the work. They are able to absorb the additional/artificial increase in their labor costs. The small business owner can’t afford it so they lay off everyone and go under. All these big bad corporations everyone complains about with this debate always leave out the small businesses. I’ve chalked it up to people just can’t do math. All they care about is that they FEEL it’s the ethical/moral thing to do and they really don’t care about how it actually reduces the workforce overall.

[@LAkadian]

Their value is that they're a human being. Human beings who work deserve to buy things with dollars. The value of a dollar has declined, therefore, the wage has to increase. Respect that or get out of the way.

[@ryanalexander5438]

I live in the Netherlands where the minimum wage is set by each bracket. 16 year olds make far less than 21 year olds. I can't say as to how effective it is but seems a partial solution. However, I am generally against the minimum wage or at least against large increases in it.

[@Frohicky1]

Why do the economic laws that govern every other good not also govern labour?

[@FletchforFreedom]

They do, of course, but politicians like to pander to economic illiterates to get votes.

[@gamblingjack2573]

China also likes USA min wage laws.

[@earllsimmins9373]

How about a maximum wage? Should the CEO of a defense contracting company get $20 million a year in compensation. That is $20 million dollars of taxpayers money being paid to one man.

[@ryanalexander5438]

It's paid by the tax payer because of a government decision to do so.

[@scottvermiliion927]

Doesnt even matter now lmfao, Jobs are paying upward of $24/he to start.. cus theres so many openings..and the price of everything has nearly doubled...so hella inflation has happened.

[@underground9260]

You’re right! Even here in Mississippi, technically we don’t have a state minimum wage, and inflation is just as bad here, as it is in Illinois where they got higher wages!

[@rickferyok2462]

Konczal was chosen to do poorly

[@realtexxxmancosplay]

I’ve always been opposed to a $15 an hour federal minimum wage, because inflation will happen and hours will be cut. Plus, prices are going to go up. Be careful what you ask for. Fast food workers don’t need to be paid that much, because it’s fast food. It’s not something that you make a living on or support a family on. The ones who deserve $15 an hour and higher: teachers, paramedics, firefighters, and others who work in the healthcare field.

[@TheNathanlockhart]

We've raised the minimum wage numerous times, and the rise in inflation has never matched the rise in wages.

[@eddiemarohl5789]

@@TheNathanlockhart if anything inflation is always ahead of the minimum wage and now we need to raise the MN to make it catch up at least a bit to make it livable on.

[@eddiemarohl5789]

If you think healthcare workers and teachers deserve $15 your insane!...(jk) Honestly it should be higher for them, they do so much and especially for teachers get treated like crap. Firefighters are a weird subject tho cause half the time they are volunteering and don't get paid. But then some places have volunteers that get pensions after so long. That's how my community does it, with pensions that increase depending on time and merit. Then once they're done they still get paid into retirement which is nice.

[@Mgb2468]

Teachers deserve far more than $15 an hour. But that brings me to this question: when do you think was the last year the US Increased minimum wage? And has inflation occurred since then?

[@NickolaySheitanov]

We have inflation cuz ppl in gov can’t do economy and print money not cuz you raise the money wage. Why don’t billion $ start paying their CEOs less so they can pay their workers more like nintendo did. Maybe you know instead of that extra bughatti you can make jobs so the homeless can work and then you don’t have to give your money away to fake charities.

[@davidferrer5709]

Hamburgers have not gone up 5 cents but several dollars in Colorado. I make hamburgers at home now and rarely go to fast food anymore. Plus I do all my work at home myself like fixing everything on the car and house with KZbin help. Thank you high wages my saving account is growing. This is a fact not some dumbass guessing.

[@phillipbaxter3350]

(Australia minimum wage $19.84hr 38hrs 9.5% superannuation)How having a bunch of grown men working at McDonalds viable ? ITS NOT You get a bunch of teenagers pay them $8-$14 hr Now its viable and you don't have a bunch of grown men working at McDonalds LOL Blows my mind the fast food industry in the USA sure you'll pay a higher price for your big Mac. Just dine in next time then you won't have this inflated fast food economy. Its crazy the amount of fast food restaurants there is in America.

[@FletchforFreedom]

Just how many times must this long debunked myth be shredded before morons stop repeating it. It's pure BS. The Australian minimum wage is $12.40/hr USD PPP (using exchange rates alone is invalid) and only kicks in at age 21. In fact, because workers are covered by regionally determined awards that take into account age and education, it is possible to hire a 16 year old for as little as just above $5/hr. Of course, as anyone who is not a blithering idiot can understand, you don't have grown adults working at McDonald's (it's overwhelmingly an entry level job and people consistently move *UP*. The median full time worker in the US is making more than $25/hr. And how exactly is it a bad thing that students and part-time workers can earn spending money and experience while providing goods and services to people at a price they're willing to pay?

[@phillipbaxter3350]

@@FletchforFreedom dude anyone working in the retail or food and beverage industry would choose to work in Australia any day. All the benefits plus 1.5× on overtime and Saturdays plus 25% casual employers. 2.5x on public holidays.(hence why alot of Europeans choose to back pack in Australia) also they are highly unionised. In comparison the industry in America is a bunch of cowboys. I can assure all wages are above minimum wage. Unless your 15 working at the local fish n chip shop. Not exactly debunked. I would be happy to see the minimum wage go up its to stop employers taking advantage of workers simple as that. Simple. If Australia can do it why can't America do it. Oh wait they don't distribute there wealth evenly. Oh that's right there the most capitalistic country there is. Rich stay rich poor stay poor. As an electrician I'd earn about the same as a school teacher. But lets not compare educational programs. I can give you countless comparisons.

[@phillipbaxter3350]

Do your research properly on Australia and come back at me. Apart from slipping in recession during covid it hasn't had one since 1990-91. Yet retains such a high minimum wage. We're due for another rise btw. Also had the unemployment benefit rise to ~$580 fortnight. Not to mention the countless social services and housing available. Also have the best support for disabilities (NDIS) means all disabled people get access to a personal carer and payments. Single mothers also receive ~au$1100 fortnight plus benefits and child support payments. All the low earning and vulnerable get looked after. A lot better then food stamps or so I've heard (don't make me research) Also if you've served in the military for more than ~20 year you receive the military support pension ~$900 a fortnight plus benefits

[@phillipbaxter3350]

@@FletchforFreedom also the thing where it kicks in is only relevant to the retail and food & beverage industries. Apprentices is different and works on a % of a fully qualified tradesman's wage. All entry level labouring and factory jobs apply full wage starting at age 18.

[@FletchforFreedom]

@@phillipbaxter3350 Dude, I have no doubt you could provide countless comparisons ... that would be equally absurd and demonstrate you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. The average pay for McDonald's crew, for example in Australia is $17/hr AUS which is about $11.50 USD PPP, about the same as what the average McDonald's crew in the US makes. The US worker gets shift differential, gets overtime and holiday pay when appropriate, has access to benefits, etc. The claim that the Australian fast food worker is materially better off has been so completely debunked, those making such claims simply look foolish. In addition, Americans have a higher standard of living, lower cost of living and historically lower unemployment (not to mention more jobs in such industries). It is certainly true that Australia has a higher level of unionization ... but that only further illustrates the benefit of working in the US as unionization yields no material benefit to workers. The research is literally overwhelming on this point. Unionization (which was never responsible for overall higher pay, better working conditions, reduced child labor, the 8 hour day, etc.) yields at most a small wage premium (in the US on average about 2% which is mostly eaten up by union dues - about 1.3%) at the expense of non-unionized workers while reducing job security and costing the economy enormous amounts (in the US more than $50 *TRILLION* ) that would otherwise have been available to ... hire and compensate workers. That you would be happy to see the minimum wage go up is an example of pure ignorance. Minimum wage laws have literally never either raised pay levels or prevented them from falling - ever - not at any time or in any country. The only result that such laws have ever had is disemployment (cuts in hours, benefits and training and outright job loss), increasing unemployment, increasing welfare rolls, increasing poverty and decreasing the financial resources available to impacted workers. Minimum wage laws are entirely harmful to the very workers they are ostensibly supposed to help. As an electrician, you also make about the same as you would in the US. School teacher salaries are determined by the state rather than the market so they tell you nothing about comparable conditions. Even your assessment of wealth distribution in the US is laughably disconnected from reality. The fact is that the majority of those in the poorest quintile will quickly move up in 6 years or less and nearly a third will eventually be in the top quintile. The chief determinant is actually age (as people move up the economic ladder). The notion that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor is factually wrong. Again, your comparisons merely demonstrate that you have drunk the debunked Kool-Aid and never bothered to look into anything beyond nonsensical talking points.

[@reginafisher9919]

Why don't we all just quit working and become homeless now because that's where we're all going to end up even with full-time jobs

[@reginafisher9919]

Actually it should be $22 an hour if minimum wage had been rising with inflation like it was supposed to

[@RedPillGrimReaper]

If you want to quickly end a debate with somebody who thinks the minimum wage should be raised to $15 per hour, all you have to do is ask them one simple question, because they won’t be able to answer it. Ask them to explain to you why the minimum wage should not be raised to $16 per hour

[@Gomez39905]

The unintended consequence of high minimum wage is a massive loss of jobs. Disregard the 3rd grade logic in support here.

[@eddiemarohl5789]

It's almost like jobs that can't pay people a living wage shouldn't exist. Who would've thought.

[@TheNathanlockhart]

The predicted outcome of a $15 dollar minimum wage is 1.4 million jobs over 5 years, and even that isn't supported by data. Britain doubled their minimum wage over 15 years and saw no impact to jobs. None. Look at any trend graph of minimum wage compared to unemployment and you'll see quite easily there has almost never been an impact on unemployment.

[@grantsmith6613]

Thomas Sowell!!!!!

[@TAMAsmith1965]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rairqJSAg9yFoJY

[@cecilmckeithan5088]

Go ahead and raise minimum wage it will just raise the the idea of what poverty level is. If poverty is someone making less than 25000 a year after this it will go up to 35000 to 40000

[@dthomscappello]

Not how it works little fella

[@cecilmckeithan5088]

@@dthomscappello I’m 51 years old I’m not your little fella. Give it time you’ll see how it works

[@cecilmckeithan5088]

@@dthomscappello yeah I can see what that college education is now. A little book knowledge and you think you know everything.

[@cecilmckeithan5088]

@@dthomscappello I am the blue collar worker dipshit I’ve raised 3 boys on less than $15 an hour most my life and sent to college .Now I know you can’t agree to disagree so have your last word and be done with it.

[@juarezm.6737]

@@cecilmckeithan5088 dont give pearly to pigs...

[@Youtube_ban_me]

This was so boring

[@adinrichter6034]

then why did you watch it