Universal Basic Income--For or Against? A Debate

[@CountJinsulaOfficial]

Oren Cass, like Bernie, assume I love being in a dead end job... anytime someone preaches the worship of work instantly loses credibility to me. It shows how out of touch they are. Jobs don't make people happy and improve their lives. Careers and ambitions do. It is near impossible to pursue a career in today's day and age because the system supports only the top end and doesn't let anyone else get there. A Universal Basic Income gives the common people leverage into this system. They now have a floor to pursue their passions. I can't tell you how often I get caught in job-lock.

[@Mercurie3]

Wow homie that was an EXCELLENT way of looking at it. Very well said I will be using your point in further discussions 😁.

[@dausherryanddhy9508]

rob see what I find as insulting is the people that have never been on welfare speak for those that have. Their argument is simply, "we already have a welfare system in place." and that "the UBI will take that away," as if they understand the full consequences of such claims, not realizing how limiting welfare is to those that qualify for it.

[@redstwok1123]

The freedom to do the work that each of us is uniquely qualified to do that provides the dignity of work, not a minimum wage or government mandated job. UBI or the freedom dividend is exactly what we need to get there.

[@davidzwitser]

Imagine all the lost creativity due to people being stuck in needing to do shitty jobs to get by in our current system.

[@thelakeman5207]

I worked 45 years at the same company. I hated every minute of it, but they paid pretty good. All I can say is, "Cowboy Up, stop your whining and quitcher bitchin'. Life ain't fair. I'll give you a universal basic income kick in the ass. Time to grow up, Nancy.

[@sondorp]

see if i had a basic income. i would want to work even more. Because of the basic income. And it d be much easier to apply for a job with a basic income as the job will really be your choice and not somebody else 's choice for you! and if i had a basic income i would, when making enough money also see myself give 10 or 20% of it away to some good cause and i believe more people would be doing that. That s all part of the multiplier effect of such a basic income.

[@CartoonManWhoo]

Preach it, brother!

[@12presspart]

@Samba Warrior i agree very little social mobility in the lower income groups I am 72 years old now and i just cant see much future for the my grandchilren and their generation it was better when i was a teenager when you could tell a boss to stuff it and get a better paid job the week after the only thing I can see is low paid often low paid and bad working conditions or the welfare benifits with you have to beg for it an UBI unconditional income could galvanising (A) working in self employment getting a better educaction better employment the bosses have to improve working conditions pay (if possible)and conditions these things would improve society drastically

[@MRkriegs]

Nothing is stopping u from working more now

[@tclmac1]

It's universal basic income, not universal everyone is rich income. Not quite sure what oren Cass was talking about in the beginning. But towards the ends, his view on vocational training makes a lot of sense.

[@zCopyCatz]

Andrew Yang is in favor of a Vocational Focus School, going to college is good but it's not for everyone.

[@WhatisaLee]

@@zCopyCatz To add to this: Yang understands that a lot of work that is unlikely to be affected by automation are in vocational careers such as plumbing, and he has expressed their importance not only in interviews but also through policy.

[@tclmac1]

@@zCopyCatz yeah, I'm yang gang as well.

[@tclmac1]

@B D precisely. Why most people dont see it is just beyond me...

[@keepcreationprocess]

I met 2 guys who are cycling into the mountains 400km, NOT on an electric bike to cross from 1 country to the other for FUN during this holiday 2020...(with unexpected changing weather they told me) .because they love the challenge and have the energy. Let those people work for you and serve us. We are meant to be all different.....created by nature....I am not goign to be like you because you want me too. If you like to work alot......YOU WORK ALOT yourself

[@Telltaletracks]

Oren lost a lot of credibility when he claimed that Medicare for all would force taxes to rise by 39%. I live in a country with universal healthcare, we don't pay anywhere near that tax level. This is not a thought experiment. It's been done. Misrepresenting it is not inaccurate estimation, it's being calculatedly disingenuous.

[@dracov5802]

i live in romania and taxes are 45 % so maybe he is right

[@Telltaletracks]

@@dracov5802 Well the fact that Australia got this right without having exorbitant taxes shows that it can be done. I can't speak for Romania because I know very little about it's situation but all I will say is that I know this is possible and that I am living in the proof.

[@thecrapehanger24]

@@Telltaletracks ' I can't speak for Romania because I know very little about it's situation but all I will say is that I know this is possible and that I am living in the proof.' Looks like you're being calculatedly disingenuous too, then.

[@Telltaletracks]

@@thecrapehanger24 how is it deceptive to simply point at the evidence that it is possible and has been done elsewhere?

[@thecrapehanger24]

@@Telltaletracks ah my mistake - I thought you were implying Australia already had UBI. Saying your country doesn’t suffer from exorbitant taxes in spite of a healthcare system in place is still neither here nor there in terms of implementing UBI. Sorry for claiming you were deceptive (it was me who was deceived!)

[@lukegrove7377]

I keep seeing comments like "this is impossible, UBI proponents are living in a Fantasy Land" Seriously? That's your argument against UBI? LOL every single invention Humanity has EVER created began in Fantasy Land. When Humans first figured out how to harness fire, it required someone to imagine such a thing was actually possible, and then think about how to actually do it. When the Wright Brothers figured out human powered flight, it first required them - and quite a few other people - to imagine that such a thing was actually possible and then think about how to actually do it. When Humans put one of their own on our nearest satellite, it first required them to imagine that such a thing was actually possible and then think about how to actually do it. Give me an example of a single Human invention that ever occurred without first living in that Fantasy Land and coming from that place to develope said invention. Money is an idea - it literally only exists in our heads. The Laws of Economics are not laws at all, they are a mutual agreement between all of us, and we can change the nature of that agreement any time we want to. Take away the mutual agreement behind Money and it is literally nothing more than scraps of paper and lumps of metal. Nothing more. Somehow we keep forgetting that.

[@tjchrist4264]

Yes!

[@henrygustav7948]

Great to see someone think this way. Now to expand this even further where does the USD come from? Most currency is digital and either comes from the Federal govt or comes from bank lending. USD are just a tax credit in a system of laws, what people really need are real resources as opposed to just cash. We need our elderly taken care of, we need afterschool programs, community gardens, we need to rebuild for the homeless, we can provide for resources for mental health. We need to move caring for people out of the market system and into the public space. We need to organize for this with a Federal jobs guarantee that pays for community jobs turning unemployment centers into employment centers. The power to create money is given to Congress article 1 section 8 and why would Govt need to tax us to get USD when they create it? In reality taxes do not fund the federal govt, taxes are deleted and fed govt issues new currency whenever it spends, whether that's for social security or for the Pentagon all spending is new USD created on a keyboard.

[@lukegrove7377]

@@henrygustav7948 agreed except where you say the three words federal jobs guarantee.....work should, and in a truly advanced society, will be entirely optional. I will repeat that last bit - entirely optional. There is no point trying to guarantee jobs if they aren't actually required. This has been tried before and we get jobs with titles like "strategic transactive peer-to-peer meetings while brainstorming the value add-on of disruptive co-creation in the network society" as Rutger Bregman pointed out. Such a title, and the job that goes with it, is essentially meaningless and adds zero value to the world we live in. We need to make work absolutely a choice for everyone, so that then they can be free to do whatever it may be that they really need to do to help make this world a better place - instead of doing what they are forced to do in order to "get a job". Forget about job guarantees - help each of us to be free to do our own thing, no matter what it is. I'm confident that - better human nature being what it is - such things will naturally turn out to be beneficial for many others, without need for any other incentive than "it makes me happy" because as inherently social animals we often find happiness in helping others.

[@lukegrove7377]

And to those pessimists who say "human nature isn't usually very nice" I reply thus: no it historically hasn't been, due to the simple fact that scarcity was the presiding mindset of us all for many thousands of years. Scarcity was actually a reality for most of human history but the really important thing about modern humanity is that we have already reached the point where scarcity is no longer a natural thing - it has become a very unnatural and deliberately artificial thing, one that could be swept away easily, if we actually decided to. This is what makes this time in our development so powerfully pivotal, because it simply hadn't happened up til now. And when you combine it with exponential automation.......well, we'll see.

[@henrygustav7948]

@@lukegrove7377 how about freedom jobs guarantee is that better? Jobs to tend to community gardens, jobs for out of work moms, I think you need to expand your definition of work. My mind is blown how people can just see a name and base their opinion off of that. No one is forced to do anything, this is employment for the unemployed who otherwise would be unemployed. You can only have one or the other.

[@alexl266]

I'm more convinced by UBI everyday, but I'm very happy to see this subject actually debated by informed debaters as opposed to the ultra-shallow soundbites that its afforded on the "Presidential Debates" stand.

[@agingchill9012]

Agreed. Capitalism's ultimate incentive is to get wages, healthcare, retirement, all human-problem costs off of business' back. And now they have a way to do that by automating nearly everything, even automation itself, with machine learning and AI. The decoupling of income from productivity: pbs.twimg.com/media/EItVh4vUYAAHqtr?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[@henrygustav7948]

@@agingchill9012 Capitalism requires profits and as a result will never hire 100% of the labor force. There is no reason we can't create jobs in a care economy paying people to help people.

[@HannesRadke]

Yeah, sadly the opposition (represented by Oren Cass here) is abhorrently intellectually lazy. That's a nice way of saying his brain is enslaved through and through and HE LOVES IT.

[@idealbrandmarketing]

UBI is fairly indisputable but they leave out the important nuance of savings, or at least has so far, nearly half way through it. Money cycling isn’t considered, many factors are mathematically missed.

[@henrygustav7948]

@@idealbrandmarketing Things such as a better alternative to Nairu is not addressed by a UBI.

[@howimade3309]

greg mankiw already endorsed ubi..why are these guys wasting their time.

[@Xianfaquanli]

Not really a waste. It's important to see other perspectives on ubi. Ubi is inevitable in my opinion but i want to see more critques.

[@sphereron]

We always need more advocates for UBI. Educating the masses is our priority.

[@henrygustav7948]

@@Xianfaquanli maybe critiques like what sort of Fed govt deficits levels are appropriate? How much is too much and how much is too little? If inflation becomes a problem can Congress act fast enough to tame inflation?

[@mmmk6322]

@@henrygustav7948 it depends on how money is generated in a country, if from natural resources for example, a public fund is possible, consumption based economy like America, a sales tax would be appropriate. How much? Between 20&50% of the median income, not a fraction of a percent of the poverty line. Inflation : we gotta try first before we fail. No body knows. But implementing a fail safe would certainly be abused by greed/irrational need to eliminate debt. So it can't be too safe.

[@henrygustav7948]

@@mmmk6322 "Inflation : we gotta try first before we fail. No body knows. But implementing a fail safe would certainly be abused by greed/irrational need to eliminate debt. So it can't be too safe." Going to outer space requires many redundant systems to make sure systems work. Having no plans to regulate correct levels of deficit spending ignores other factors.

[@aaron2709]

Andrew Yang 2020!

[@alivewell2920]

2024!!

[@OLDGUY7301]

2 bad outcomes it's hi inflationary and countries in Europe that experimented with this ended up with an over 50% Tax rate. That's why they stopped.

[@gjk8110]

andrew yang will make history! the smartest candidate exist in america. even tough ubi is not his idea but he make it best and complete.

[@Mercurie3]

Yep 😁

[@p42uynot59]

You all are living in a dream world if you believe UBI is possible at this time. I think we may revisit this idea at one point in time ONLY,,, when we finally have complete Artificial Intelligence. A.I. that can create, build and do things better then we can. In other words another entity in itself that is made conscious. We start it and then it takes off. THEN we can talk UBI and A.I. will control it. Mankind hasn’t shown that ability without corruption. WE never will.

[@chatrbaz84]

Smart to steal your vote

[@vivalanovus]

Yang2020!

[@idealbrandmarketing]

#yanggangCA

[@bumtobachelor1908]

MAGA!

[@idealbrandmarketing]

yue vang interesting to see you in an economics video in support of Trump, would you say the tax rebate to corporations and the rich benefit the people or the rich?

[@bumtobachelor1908]

John Dorsey I love yang too. But it’s not his time yet. And I would say both!

[@vivalanovus]

@@bumtobachelor1908 sorry it most definitely is his time! Dec debate will be huge - soon to win the whole thing.

[@johnb1567]

Great debate.. loved it.. convinced me UBI is the way to go... off to research more on Andrew Yang.

[@antwarior]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ap2thY2DnK5_etE

[@johnb1567]

Hehe.. I've already donated and have a math hat. I was just being a stinker.

[@freedomordeath89]

it doesnt work

[@theverygreatest1]

Not sure how it's possible to get that takeaway.

[@thelakeman5207]

Who pays for this? Since 2016 we are almost 6 trillion deeper in debt. Biden needs 3 trillion more for infrastructure. And now you want to hand people free money?

[@SilverLakeKingdom]

UBI would reduce crime rate by a large margin. When people have money they shop more often, the go places, they feel happy. All funds for this activity would go back to local businesses and government. UBI is an answer for a healthy, happy, wealthy and prosper society.

[@drwalka10]

Just like welfare did in the 70s and 80s right ?

[@BhelliomRahl]

@@drwalka10 I think there's a difference, welfare had requirements that people had to meet. Because of this people made choices to get welfare that were actually detrimental to them and society in the long run but UBI's only requirement could be; to be 18 years old and a citizen. It would be tax-free and not factored into any other welfare requirements and could be spent on whatever the person chose.

[@EaSgoura]

​@@drwalka10just like welfare still does lol

[@robert8930]

wrong, when people dont need money to survive, they dont need to have ajob, they get bored, and start doing crimes.

[@thesweetshopman9698]

It seems a very spurious argument to compare UBI to disability benefits, in relation to disincentivising work. UBI is by it's very nature Universal, you get it if you work or not. Disability benefits by the very complex way they are setup ensures you never try and work again or even volunteer for fear of losing said benefit.

[@boyar1978]

With UBI we would no longer need disability benefits If we had a UBI there would have been no economic fallout during the pandemic everyone could have stayed home and not worry about how to make ends meet. Instead we have a country of stupid people who compare having a few social net programs as a precursor for Communism. Give everyone enough to afford things such as housing, food, and utilities and all of society will benefit.The USA is the richest country in the world yet it is also the stingiest as it does not even take care of its own people. I think it is ironic how China is beginning to create plans for a UBI . Looks like China cares more about its people than the USA does.

[@joltjolt5060]

Very very true.

[@Rev_Kim_Love]

Where is the discussion about the MIND freedom that would be created once the grinding stress of meeting ones basic needs are removed? In other words the creative energy to address these problems in innovative ways will be released once the mind prison of scarcity and human unworthy-ness is removed. Derogatory Labeling of people in order to keep people in their place has to go! Let’s switch our thinking to EVERYONE is deserving of basic living and see what happens. What do we got to lose? We’ve been living the old paradigm long enough. Power to the people❣️

[@henrygustav7948]

Its the real resources available in our economy which are important. What we need to do is take care of our elders and children, provide community gardens for food sustainability, we need teachers assistants, cleaning up of and beautification of our neighborhoods and we can do this paying people a living wage to take care of people in their own communities so that we do not need to rely on the capitalist for profit market system which is so unaffordable for many people. We need a Federal jobs guarantee.

[@yamahantx7005]

@rob see Chillin at home with $12k / year won't feel much better. Will UBI allow you to pay off all your debts and save some money in a reasonable amount of time?

[@nickraoyj]

As Prof. Guy Standing from UOL said, the benefits of the emancipatory value of the UBI far outweighs the actual cash value itself.

[@keepcreationprocess]

@@henrygustav7948 nnnooooo, you take care of me....

[@LegitimatePatriot]

Abby bch pvv c m no kcl NY

[@arkitekrb4802]

The people who oppose it are the people who were able to live in good condition

[@Angela-po7cr]

the government doesn't want to stop the fake charities..programs that are so corrupt and don't actually exist stealing tax payer money is so severe they are above the law fake court hearings where no one is convicted is so corrupt this is our biggest problem ...the fakeness of our own government protecting themselves money corrupt system is killing us all with no satisfaction and justice for the american people fake court hearings continuous we give tax money to their pockets crapping on the hand that feeds them

[@Angela-po7cr]

we are collapsing cause restaging events is now the lie of US Government where involving companies like tabacco to sue an unsueable government is more corruptness from the highest court

[@Angela-po7cr]

if you live in the country no ID no tags or insurance and blocked by your own government to make income to cash on on your mortgage is. part of this corrupt system sold out US Gov for power and money unjust system we have

[@Angela-po7cr]

@Ronald Reagan they cause this to force vaccine

[@Angela-po7cr]

do away with US Government fraud to save the world

[@jacktseng4909]

UBI will be necessary as the 4th industrial revolution presents much serious economical imbalance for the society. The privilege of work will be soon be taken away from many people. AI and automation will be pervasive. Current economy system will be so distorted if some form of UBI is not put in place. UBI is necessary by reallocating wealth and happiness among the citizen of the country. UBI is founded by taxation on non-human "workers" . Which means VAT on all good and service produced.

[@marioeid930]

Idk that it will be that bad but ubi will stimulate the economy greatly right now, i think there will always be work for humans, new jobs too.

[@boyar1978]

@@marioeid930 it is true. Most of those who would be receiving UBI would likely be spending it on everyday necessities such as rent and food. It would also force employers to pay more if they want workers and would means fewer people would be able to escape dangerous situations. Imagine a woman in an abusive relationship. She would now have the ability to pick up and go. It could be a boon for those who need to relocate for a job either nationally or internationally. The ideal way to set up the UBI is so that it is based off the per capita income. As your income gets close to the per capita income of the country your UBI income is reduced by that amount. This would mean people will not have to worry about losing their income simply because they dont earn enough. You can also expand it to replace social security, disability, and to give young people a jump start in life. You could pay for it by a simple 25% income tax on all income above the per capita. All other taxes could be abolished save sin taxes which could be placed in products made from materials that pollute, cause health problems, or injure people

[@boyar1978]

@Ronald Reagan how are you so dumb and blind to not see how the UBI will benefit society. if implemented properly it will result in a huge economic boom for the country and possibly even world. if other countries see it as a success they will copy it too.

[@bcase5328]

People, who are positions to make long ranging decisions, don't take the effects of automation, nor the possible effects of AI, seriously, not until such affects them or someone close to them. They are shortsighted and willfully ignorant of the state others. Upper income jobs wouldn't be immune to what may be coming.

[@susanlippy1009]

​@@bcase5328upper income jobs will be the first affected. Things such as accounting are very easily automated. It's harder to automate manual labor jobs as you not only need to automate the process but the dexterity of a human. That still is a very difficult thing but robotics are getting closer daily. First jobs affected by AI were writers and Hollywood not plumbers and electricians. Tech jobs will go first, the irony of it all🤣.

[@Slowp0w]

Oren used the singularity argument in relation to automation, because it's the most far fetched future concept, thus distancing his point from the fact that a lot of near future technology and automation is going to revolutionize and transform a lot of different industries in the next 100 years. It is ignorant not to assume the job market and contemporary way of life are developing towards a more automated future.

[@jason00121]

Listening to the argument against UBI it occurs to me just how psychotic our culture of greed is. It is not about just gaining more personally, but gaining more than others. Looking down on the poor with great pious judgement is just plain sadistic

[@melaniecotterell8263]

We all started out with nothing. Now get off your ass and earn a living.

[@Johnjackjack]

The main argument against UBI is inflation it has been and always will be because it would cause massive inflation

[@robert8930]

i would always prefer lose part of my income if everyone loses it too, instead of everyone making more. whats the point of having a good car if everyone else can afford it? i dont want that, i want to be special, because of my hard work and sacrifices. it's amazing when people are envious and they starve and you can throw food in the garbage. thats how i want to live my life.

[@notsocrates5979]

Gonna be real, Oren’s take sold me on UBI more than Karl’s. Describing all the things that are only sustained by needing to work to survive made me consider just how much things are simply forced to work in the name of survival, without regard for human happiness, and really it’s terrible to say that keeping the system because it forces people to do things they don’t want to do is good for the sake of forcing people to do things they don’t want to do.

[@user-rj4td5dh4p]

UBI is an idea only a complete moron would think would work. If you want $20,000 UBI then some/most of those people will work less. If you have less people working you have less being produced. The result is scarcity and inflation. It would create universal poverty and if you made it $75,000 a year you would probably cause starvation even though these morons would think they are well off making $75,000 a year. How can people be this f'ing stupid. You have zero ability to think if you believe in UBI. Work hard and become a man, looser. Stop playing video games.

[@drwalka10]

Why do you believe in the zero sum fallacy when it comes to wealth ?

[@dallassegno]

But it only works globally

[@mattalley4330]

I take from what mr widerquist says in his opening statement that UBI could lead to greater human flourishing by giving people more financial flexibility. That people could be better able to quit the job they don’t like so much and pursue a career course that they dream about with the assurance that, even if they fail, they will still be able to have a minimum income coming in and won’t risk being completely destitute? Am I right in inferring this from his words, folks? I guess it would largely depend on what shape and form UBI (or whatever it would be called) takes when implemented.

[@joshbarrett3875]

1:24:00 for all the audiences here: Yang's UBI proposal stacks on top of SS by the way.

[@Jargensmash]

Artificial Intelligence isn't comparable to the steam engine, it gets smarter by itself. People wont be able to get other jobs like they did in previous industrial revolutions.

[@nguyenvuongnguyenvuong1550]

elliott cook moreover back then people had plan B to fall back on : there were more small farmers to self sustain with basic necessities ... most population resided in the rural agricultural area than modern urban industrial

[@EvsEntps]

You have no idea what 'Artificial Intelligence' is. It's just an algorithm (a recursive computer program) that spits out a result; it's not intelligent. Furthermore, algorithms have to be engineered, monitored, fed proper data and evaluated for accuracy all the time by humans, i.e. they require human jobs. There are trillions of lifetimes of work yet to be done before we reach anywhere near a UBI future.

[@commycasty]

@@EvsEntps I agree, after alot research into the subject of A.I. I've noticed that most of the preconceived notions of self aware/hostile A.I. comes from media and movies. Where in reality a computer program can only do what it's been programmed to do.

[@titisenegal]

If Oren Cass had been invited to speak first, he would have said 80% LESS as most of his talk centered on silly rebuttals. Listen to him carefully, he has almost no arguments against UBI. To simplify his "long" charades, he's only saying one thing: we HAVE the monetary resources, but it's going be hard to juggle btw UBI and universal healthcare. Hmm.. The rest from him is even more irrelevant, and it is exactly what's wrong with us Americans. We see work = identity, while the rest of the world sees work is work, and there's so much more outside of work. So to all the 18 years old out there, $1000 a month will turn y'all into good for nothing drug addicts or world-travel loafers. Wow. What an insult to Widerquist to call this a debate.

[@Lifrit]

Yeah i took note of his rebuttal and thought good speaker, trash arguments. He 1st starts with an appeal to popularity, then goes into saying its possible but then strawmans a tax structure, and ends it with an argument for jobs provide meaning.

[@12presspart]

universal health care works out cheaper look at the tables the USA comes out at the most expensive life expectancy is lowest cuba uhc has an higher life expectancy a point of entery universal system is much cheaper no middle man to pay like private care

[@DrSpooglemon]

He started with a non-sequitur right out of the box. "No one even takes this idea seriously, why are we even talking about it?"

[@Tubeytime]

Basic income is *NOT* provided by the government, it is *DISTRIBUTED* by the government. Don't let anybody fool you with that one.

[@aaronashworth5058]

Government produces very little, therefore they cannot transfer value to anyone by means of production.

[@Colonel__Ingus69]

Thank you! 👍

[@Rodmachoman45fr]

Distrubuted FROM WHO?

[@gerkee2087]

I was on the fence. Leaning UBI

[@MELwithRSD]

See my post above & keep studying! It really is brilliant.

[@templeray5692]

How do you feel about it now.

[@user-zb6lg1xj3k]

I support UBI given today’s economic and technological environment, but the way Karl justifies isn’t a strong argument

[@Xianfaquanli]

I support ubi also but which argument are you referring to?

[@chancelacina]

I think Widerquist's argument is actually the best argument there is for UBI. It's about reparations for the private and governmental enclosure of the commons, the source of all abundance/wealth in the world. We all deserve a basic share. There's more than enough to meet our basic needs in today's economy.

[@user-zb6lg1xj3k]

Chance Lacina there just seems to be a tone of entitlement. We should at the very least acknowledge that the world of abundance that we live in now has been a result of modern capitalism. But it’s time to also recognize the gross inequalities and negative externalities that have become increasingly prevalent and I think a ubi is in the right direction of where we should evolve

[@chancelacina]

@@user-zb6lg1xj3k Well I'm tone deaf so I don't know how to respond to that. What I'm responding to is that everything Karl said is just true. He's not attacking capitalism at all. Nor is he endorsing socialism, or entitlement. He's saying we've been stripped of the commons. We've been stripped of our right to subsist without interference from government/private interests. Anyone who owns capital owes reparations for that injustice. We all owe each other some share of the wealth of the commons. Given how rich our societies are, that ends up being a basic income at/above the poverty level. There's just no reason not to.

[@ubuu7]

@@meghankreger4672 The best seller of Ubi is a guy named "guy standing" Terrible name to search for

[@sriwru]

People just think UBI just as an expense. It is more like a fuel to turn the wheels of the economy faster.

[@TheAmanov]

WHEN YOU REALIZE: "Co-Sponsored by the Rockefeller Center for Public Policy and the Political Economy Project", lol

[@isidoreaerys8745]

I was not ready for the affirmative side’s case. Really surprising perspective based in fundamental economics and the social contract we have not questioned since the inception of sedentarism.

[@nathanfielure4305]

38:10 So the Dartmouth graduates are not going to "work really hard" if they are given 12k/year? Is there any empirical evidence to that? So rich people already collecting 12k/year rent will "work really hard" too? Or is it just poor people who get 12k/year who will not "work really hard"? That Oren guy is not keeping up with his own logic.

[@nathanfielure4305]

@Kaleb Swager The economy did not factor in a lot of work like someone cleaning their own house, basically anything a parent would do. Your drawings are worthless until they are sold. Compare that to the stock market when future earnings a included in their value. All this ignorance results from people still thinking money is gold. Money is a unit of accounting of the production of a country, every work should be accounted for and that is not being done. That alone should justify a $12k/yr UBI. It is true though at certain levels the production of a country may not keep up with the demand. 3 trillion in a 21 trillion economy, shouldn't be a problem.

[@nathanfielure4305]

@Kaleb Swager Why should anyone get paid for whipping their own asses? There's still value in the sense that the person is providing an entertainment for himself. Economics is about choices people makes, perhaps with more money he can buy himself a better whip. The question you really need to ask if you were exploited and the work you have done more than paid for your expenses.

[@thedebate4836]

@Kaleb Swager so an answer to your question, a large portion of your income wont get taken away unless you make a shit ton of money. most UBI sits around a 60k break even mark. so that means if you make 60k a year you pay 12k in taxes, but you also get 12k a year in UBI (net 0) if you make 30k a year, you pay 6k extra in taxes and get 6k extra in income, so you make 36k a year and so on. so you have person A that doesnt work, that person makes 12k a year, depending on where they live, just enough to survive. person B takes a part time job at mcdonalds (32 hrs a week, 9$ an hour) and gets paid 15k a year, now person B makes a net salary of 23k a year(basically $13.81 per hour if you stay at 32 hours per week or 49 hours @9$ an hour per week). which person would you rather be? person A that has just enough, or person B that is still productive, paying taxes, spending money in the economy helping other businesses. and maybe being able to save money to go to school to get a better job, or learning a new skill. maybe spend more time with their kids instead of working 2 full time jobs because you are getting paid the same but working 17 hours less, thats 17 hours to better yourself, 17 hours to spend time with kids and help them in school, maybe even 17 hours to donate and volunteer to help others.

[@thedebate4836]

@Kaleb Swager so your numbers are wrong, the person making 60k a year shouldnt see their income changed. 60k it's what they are aiming for to be net 0 or break even. Also even if Medicaid is 12k worth, that doesnt mean you have a 24k income. It means you have 12k income with health insurance

[@thedebate4836]

@Kaleb Swager so because you choose the job you choose means everyone has to get screwed? What about the person working minimum wage? That's a 40k a year difference and just as stressful if not more stressful. Also guess what, you could quit you 60k 40 hour a week job and live off 12k a year. Or maybe be able to find a new job that's less stressful that makes you a better person and care about fellow person more! I really dont understand people. How can so many people be religious, or say they care, but once it becomes, maybe you could pay a few $ more per year to make sure people dont sleep in cardboard boxes! Oh and guess what, the people paying that extra isnt even you, it's the ones making 100k a year, 500k a year, 10 billion a year, not you and your little 60k a year job

[@1videopro]

Winner Karl! 👏🏼

[@georgebadillo9464]

What is the case for the working poor?

[@杜威漢]

UBI in one form or another will be necessary simply because not having it will result in social collapse. There is nothing more dangerous than an ever growing proportion of the population with nothing and therefore nothing to lose.

[@MRkriegs]

When will that happen? When has that happened in the past? Is this a historical certainty?

[@jring383]

Where do you get the resources to start the pizza shop?

[@MELwithRSD]

😂👍 See my point about this in my post above! Exactly!

[@snowbunny1001]

Go out and bring value to the world. Accumulate that value in the form of skills and capital then start your pizza shop. Every entrepreneur risks capital. The employees exchange their time and labour for money. The employees take on 0 risk to work at the pizza shop. The mutual and voluntary relationship between the pizza shop owner and the employee results in income for the employee and potential profits for the shop owner. Profits are not guaranteed. (This is the risk of owning a business.)

[@watchthis2031]

I'm rather conservative come from a well of family yet support UBI fully. I struggle to do daily tasks and this would be such a wonderful system. It makes me sad thst people are born rich or poor.

[@daviddeeallen1564]

I would sign up for a" Univeral basic income" study. Receiving $2,000.00 a month would be great.

[@judysholes5911]

until cost of living goes up and it will, Do you really think the Government will give you a raise without raising your taxes first? people need to work not just sit around and collect a benefit . .what happened to creating more jobs and earning a wage to live on.

[@epicchocolate1866]

@@judysholes5911the system we have isn’t interested in living wages, the 1%s wealth is growing exponentially, while the average person is fucked, either we make changes to the system, or the system is destroyed along with everyone who supports it

[@strongbrain3128]

UBI is a great idea for a country with many highly educated people: Now people have a safety net to pursuit their dreams, or create new technological innovations without fear of failures, or pursuit a totally different career path that would otherwise be impossible to do. All those endeavors of the educated people will eventually accelerate the GDP growth for a country.

[@bcase5328]

All who are talking on this panel seem a bit ivory-tower out of touch/pure theory rather than in touch with work-a-day Middle class or Working class. A simpler answer would be a raise of the zero tax mark. If the government needs more tax revenue, reform the tax code to eliminate caps and deductions/exemptions. But, focus on raising that revenue from the above $100,000.00/year group. The Working class and lower half of the Middle Class don't have the extra money. There are whose in the top 20% who are paying in a lower percentage of their income than those getting between 25,000.00 to 50,000.00 per year. Eliminate the tax code which allows that.

[@Actias1974]

Exactly. But what we have is a country where at least 25% want to loaf about and play of their phone. They won’t use UBI for anything more than doing nothing. I mean you can run a society that way and still be successful but not when we are basically bankrupt with 35 trillion dollar deficits.

[@remannhall9457]

Is paying more for everything really pursing your dreams? Guess what happens when UBI checks go out? Your rent goes up, your groceries go up, your hydro bill goes up. There goes your UBI right there.

[@rohitdodu]

I don't think Mr Cass hold on for 5 minutes with Andrew Yang

[@Mercurie3]

If Andrew Yang was there he would be speechless

[@era_s]

If work as it currently exists (sweatshops, factories, fulfillment centers) is vital to the health of an individual why must they be coerced to do it?

[@Jygzaw]

1:11:34 is something that people should understand.

[@stevecoley8365]

Even the magical goose needs food, unpolluted water, shelter and love in order to lay golden eggs.

[@jenjenwisdom9653]

Love this ~

[@TrackingWidgets]

At 1:01:00 Oren Cass should stop at just saying he's not an expert in monetary policy (or theory). By continuing and then stating that he thinks expanding the money system with non-debt currency would be inflationary, he ignores the simple fact that it doesn't matter how the money enters the system with the current design, ie. doesn't matter whether it's the government/fed creating new currency out of thin air, or it's the private banking system doing that on the government's behalf. He needs to brush up on his studies of MMT and other practical monetary policies.

[@Happymouth1]

Karl definitely went down the rabbit hole of UBI. He articulated so well.

[@lorrainecouch348]

A UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME WOULD ACTUALLY BE PAID TO EACH INDIVIDUAL FROM THE INTEREST RATE!!! WANNABES

[@drwalka10]

You’re either Low skilled or Low in individuals, who believe in the zero sum fallacy when incomes to the economy and don’t understand that this will bring mass bum mentality to this country. fRee mOneY… get on your knees and beg , u envious lowest value citizens

[@NealBozeman]

Need to focus on how UBI optimizes capitalism and advances industry. You get *Vastly more consumers. *Vastly more people able to pool money to create competition. *Easing of housing crisis in America's largest cities *Everyone suddenly becomes credit worthy and bankable. People previously locked out of debt markets now qualify for loans, new household expenditure, or to simply open a bank account. This is the biggest multiplier effect on UBI's benefits. More competition = more choices, lower prices (contrary to beliefs it would raise inflation) Velocity of "cash in hand" = 9x or more circulation rate. $1000 becomes $9000 in the real economy. This factor actually increases when more people in a local economy have access to expendable cash. Housing pressures decline as economic opportunities no longer need to be clustered in our mega-cities. Small towns would gain disproportionately higher purchasing power for every citizen that moved there, compared to large cities. Money is at all times relative. If all people stay at home, value of money declines, prices of assets increases, your $1000/mo becomes worth-less (but not worthless), and we end up closer to the previous system. If it works we are all better off and over time our $1000/mo becomes worth more. Everyone has problems. UBI is about people solving their own problems. Money is efficient. It will flow back to the most productive channels whether citizens use that for their own opportunities, or through consumption, they spur more industry.

[@MELwithRSD]

Well said!

[@rohitdodu]

If Karl can smoke Owen , Yang would have wrapped this up in 5 minutes

[@idealbrandmarketing]

Rohit ka hilarious, you’re very right... I see what you did there. Karl is not the better speaker but he clearly won! #yang2020

[@davidlane6758]

I love Yang and support his candidacy, but Karl's arguments are at a higher level of sophistication than Yang's, philosophically speaking. Yang typically sticks to more practical arguments drawn from facts about the future of automation and its effects on jobs. Those are quite valuable as well, but I like the philosophical approach myself.

[@melaniecotterell8263]

People who favor UBI should be grouped separately from those that do not, Tax the high earners within the pro UBI group to pay the low or non earners within the group. See what the ratio is.

[@cfromkc5096]

UBI shouldn't be funded by income or wealth taxes but by sales taxes. If we drop employees tax, production n profits can go up

[@vicgamesvt9682]

Honestly the U.S needs to get their healthcare figured out before they get a UBI program but countrys which have a universal healthcare system already established such as Canada or Denmark should work towards slashing programs such as welfare and unemployment insurance and putting in a UBI

[@sewer-cat]

I don't agree that employment is an agreement between two individuals. People have to work. The agreement is inherently unfair.

[@TheHmongsterInc]

As I was talking to my boss today about my job, I felt like no matter how hard I work and the hours I put in, it seems like it takes only one wrong to get me write up but yet they over see the 10 I did well. At this point I felt like if I leave I would not have any money to pay bills and support my kids. Being a single parent makes it even harder. If I know I have that 1000 every month, at least if I have to take a pay cut, I would still be ok. Our system is corrupted. The poor gets poorer and the rich gets richer. UBI will take us in the right direction. Trust me on this.

[@nickking1510]

Hi I came form Britain in the 1960ies with my parents to Canada .England was an economic mess when we left and as a boy I noticed the huge difference in standard of living in Canada my Father got a job 42 miles from where we lived in a smaller village as a bookkeeper fora united farmer cooperative .Father had no money and walked home every Friday night the 42+ miles and left Sunday am to walk back to work in Ailsa Craig where he boarded he did this for over a year while paying back every cent to immigration Canada for the financial assistance they loaned us and our plane flight . Father purchased a modest house despite having a small income all his life and because I worked part time for a local New Car dealership from my teens to early while going to school and college in auto body mechanical repairs I helped keep his old cars going like new .My point is don’t eat out often make your own coffee don’t smoke or drink recycle everything like peanut butter jars plastic bags coffee tins . Change your own oil . Only get used cars that use economical parts with good track record of reliability learn learn and you will be able to save some money get your kids involved . Also try to see if your company offers any free training that once completed will get you a better position and more money

[@rtsaldivar]

Using cliches does not prove your point!

[@vickieturner1249]

I know that you have not done any research on the UBI and the corruption in our government and the elites with child trafficking/cabal. Follow the money. Look at the political systems. Communism =UBI. Wake up America!

[@LisaCulton]

I created my own UBI with dividends.

[@DoubleBob]

That's cool. If you are a fan of UBI, you should simply give away 80% of what you get to random people. Forever.

[@LisaCulton]

@@DoubleBob Definitely *not* a fan. I can create my own steady income with my own capital.

[@CartoonManWhoo]

"UBI should not be a political issue. It's about giving cash to all, and will directly have positive impacts on those... that have no or little cash. The fact that UBI is even necessary speaks volumes to what kind of a global society we have designed. There are jobs in the developed world, the U.S., that literally offer as little as $5,000 in a year per person. Poverty is not a lack of character, it is a lack of cash." - Rutger Bergman

[@lastrose5334]

It's true though

[@tclmac1]

The children argument was especially idiotic........ Children didn't work for money, and most children grow up under UBI environment.

[@tclmac1]

@Kaleb Swager right... cuz most people called their 18 yrs old teenager who live in dorm paid by parents or drive car with co sign insurance with their parents "children"... when in reality we call them adult or young adult.

[@tclmac1]

Bear in mind, no one is imposing ubi on you. You can choose to take it. Or forego. It's a basic life line secured in an advanced country where every human being is respected and valued. In the current covid 19 weather. It rings especially true...

[@tclmac1]

@Kaleb Swager think insurance.

[@tclmac1]

@Kaleb Swager ipo? Initial public offering?

[@boyar1978]

@@tclmac1 it is a better alternative then telling landlords they cant evict you because you can't pay rent. with UBI no one can use that excuse anymore. Everyone would have the ability to pay rent

[@kathybryla3581]

Yes for some wages are low and cost of living is high and some bosses make you do three peoples work load for peanuts but they get rich meanwhile your scrapping the bottom

[@CerebrumExpansion]

EMPLOYMENT UBI - There should be no minimum wage. Companies should be able to pay whatever they want. Large companies such as Amazon pay more than federal and state minimum wages in most parts of the country anyway. The government should pay everyone "that works" a UBI based on how many hours that individual has worked each month. No income tax. Corporations need to start paying their fair share, not all their billions, just their FAIR share. There is literally a TAX on EVERYTHING! Just raise sales taxes and other taxes you deem necessary to cover the income tax and UBI deficit. This form of UBI will also need to be spent on APPROVED, US based companies, services and goods. Your company or products are approved simply by being a US resident and having your goods or services made or based in the US. (Basically you can't rent an apartment that's owned by a company based in the UK and you cant go online and buy electronics from china unless you use your own money.) Huge Bonus! Large corporations will suffer, such as Walmart and Amazon unless they start buying and selling more US goods. Maybe we'll start getting more small businesses back! (I don't think anyone has a problem with this except for "the others" lol) We can easily decrease military funding to help a little with UBI as well and still have the best military in the world. We just have to stop sending money to everyone and constantly patrolling everywhere. 80% of the reason we do it anyway is simply to make the elite scum more money. $100 or $200 billion of that $700 billion+ budget is doable. UBI at 1k per month would cost 4 Trillion Dollars. We CAN afford this amount. This version of UBI that requires work will definitely boost the job economy. People who don't want to work will end up paying into UBI and everything else via sales taxes etc. anyway, so you might as well work. I personally know a ton of people that don't work and just hustle what they can to survive, I know for a fact if they made $20-25 / hr. at a job they would be on it in a second. This would be achievable with UBI. These guys only hustle because they make the same amount as they would at a regular job but have so much more freedom. With the guaranteed extra income from UBI people might just be more motivated to work, be able to save a lot of money, live comfortably and have so much more freedom. I seriously do not know anyone that has extra cash. The people I do know, others might classify as wealthy are in debt, they just have a lot of nice stuff they spend every waking moment paying for. Nobody wants to live like this anymore. When jobs start phasing out due to automation and such, we can start adjusting UBI payments and hours worked or whatever fits our liking. We can also increase UBI payments to people who are studying in advanced fields we need more graduates from. Employment UBI will make people smarter, happier and healthier. THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT AND "THE OTHERS" DO NOT WANT THIS! I don't care what you say, you DAMN well KNOW IT! A lot of the reasons the way things are the way they are, such as laws and ideas you cant change, are put in place by corrupt power and money hungry individuals and corporations. Don't say we can't do this or can't do that either because........ BULLSHIT! Even if you don't like this idea, something has to change... WTF is going on... Seriously?! We can do anything we want as long as we are true, just, good and belong to Jesus Christ!

[@jdub1329]

Exactly. If the world was just two people I’m pretty sure it would only be fair to share the resources equally.

[@gurubivolaru5114]

That's right, but how does it sound when you go out 8 hours a day breaking your body working while I stay at home all day? Is that right?

[@vilesvengeance3796]

Yes when one person can only harvest the resources. So u teach and switch and bring the other to an equal.

[@llewelynstevenson8057]

I actually believe we can create Universal Basic Income but unfortunately, I did not enjoy the defense that I felt offered nothing substantial to the concept. Karl sounded very unprepared and lacked substantial effort in researching the topic. I do not believe UBI will reduce the equality gap or eradicate poverty, and we should have no expectation for it. I do feel that this debate was a waste of valuable time as it did not address the issues of the day. Also, you are all talking America, that is a small part of the picture. I do not live in America and am looking at this on a global scale, but you can do it in America, and I do wish you would stop relying solely on taxes. Let me put it to you in this example. My response to Elon Musk is, "If you want me to buy a tesla, give me the ability to do so." That is the court this ball belongs in.

[@jring383]

You dont need "singularity" for millions of low skill manual labour jobs to be replaced.

[@Slowp0w]

Oren used the singularity argument because it's the most far future concept, thus distancing his point from the fact that a lot of near future technology and automation is going to revolutionize and transform a lot of different industries in the next 100 years.

[@VanVu-uu3jl]

I would love to get the names of everyone who is against UBI right now. I will make it my life's goal to check on their UBI opting out status when its implemented

[@logician32gaming31]

We got to get out there and vote for Andrew Yang.

[@DaveWard-xc7vd]

You should fact check him first.

[@billw8476]

ting tang, walla walla bing bang yang?

[@AlmaVasquezjr]

Lazy people You mean rich people Lazy people have maids to clean their house, chefs to cook their food, gardeners to work their land, chauffeurs to drive their cars, personal assistance to manage their affairs, ect..... Lazy people are rich people.

[@sirosisofliver1189]

12k yr mortgage 7k yr health ins 6k yr food 2k yr electric 2k yr gas 1k car ins That's 30k a year to exist in US

[@ubuu7]

Can I have your mortgage costs?

[@bradkohl6283]

And that is what the majority in this country make. They pay you just enough to barely meet your basic needs and than you have nothing beyond that. American business hates UBI because it empowers the people. Oh the people don't need a job to meet their most basic needs. It's all about power, exploitation and keeping people poor for the grotesque profit of the Ownerclass. It's almost as if when you look at it it's still a master slave situation. My how the structures actually haven't changed all that much!

[@boyar1978]

after doing the math. I realized I actually earned more from my 22000 CNY teaching job in China than I would if i had earned 60000USD a year in the USA. After i subtracted all bills such as rent and utilities i would have saved the same amount and would have worked a less stressful job.

[@RobotProctor]

A UBI, a flat tax and a negative income tax are very similar.

[@trudyb4841]

People would become more creative, open to learning more about the world, and different perspectives. Most people are trapped in a rat race to survive and they barely have time to pause, think, breathe, cook a healthy meal, exercise, or read a book.

[@coltenpatton6102]

At 59:28 I started to understand that they don't want to actually discuss UBI they just want to use it as a springboard to talk about other topics

[@xNightstormx]

#Yang2020 Freedom Dividend is only the foundation!

[@NightMourningDove]

@Ronald Reagan Surely that will stop people from trying

[@NightMourningDove]

@Ronald Reagan The Ontario & Finland experiments didn't fail, people became more productive in the Ontario experiment but was cut to an end by a progressive conservative government, because wahhh it's so expensive to have basic fucking empathy for others, but nah, lets waste it all on wars & pointless policing. Guess we should stop feeding children too because it's too expensive. Give me a fucking break. All US conservatives do nowadays is whine instead of making efforts to solve anything. People are working paycheck to paycheck, throwing away their own lives just to help people like you and me. If a rich person had 100 billion dollars, taking half of that wouldn't do jack to them. You tell me who's busting ass more, the rich guy sitting on their ass with their shareholders ballooning their profit by breathing air, or the people working for them who spend every minute of their lives exhausting themselves to death doing backbreaking labor/putting up with customers who have mental health problems venting out their life problems onto innocent workers? But nah, lets keep up the corporate Stockholm Syndrome because wow, the rich totally deserve to run us over with tanks because they earned it!!!!!! And yes, animals totally have to go through several interviews and work for a wage slave master just to spend money on fruit & food that grows with a literal price tag on it. /s If we had a whole population of people like you thinking everything was fine and nothing had to change, we would still be living in the 1500s. Lmfao.

[@NightMourningDove]

Lol Ron seriously deleted their comments 😂

[@laurennutttrail]

1:15:35 shows everything you need to know about oren's position on UBI

[@phoenixcongress9301]

LMAO!

[@bradkohl6283]

Typical current Democrat! They would lose their power over workers! It's all about controlling people having power and position over other people. UBI is true freedom! Freedom from exploitation freedom from coercion, etc... Nobody should have to work for another to meet their basic human needs. UBI would fix that! People should be doing jobs because they love doing those jobs and make an income above the UBI to participate in the commodity capitalist system! PERIOT!!!!!

[@JoeNorte]

Because when I was growing up, I dreamed of working for someone else...

[@wordingreenville]

So you started your own business?

[@cfromkc5096]

@@wordingreenville With what? The saving i built from the high wage 2.5 jobs I work n free time i have to plan?

[@cfromkc5096]

@Ronald Reagan Yea, as long as u got enough money to make decisions

[@Pocket-Calculator]

I didn't like Karl's arguments for UBI. It was all so populist, but it had very little empirical justification.

[@sstchan924]

From the beginning industrial revolution freed human from physical wear and tear. With each stage workers reaped the benefits of the improvement in various forms. Now with AI and automation resulting in higher productivity and efficiency, not only workers but all citizens finally have a chance to share a slight slice of fruits of the 4th industrial revolution in the form of UBI. The wealthy and industry owners would still of course have the lion share of the nation’s economy.

[@life42theuniverse]

34:30 But I don't have my own resources to pursue the construction of a pizza shop. I need to take a loan and work to repay the loan plus interest. Perhaps population growth will open a niche demand occasionally for another shop but an established pizza shop owner is in a much better position to take advantage of openings in demand.

[@bcase5328]

If you can get a loan

[@cruven9993]

The Freedom Dividend is the Best form of Capitalism Without this it's just a Game of Monopoly once the Winner gets all the Properties , Hotels ,Utilities, Railroads, Etc it's GAME OVER But if Each of the Players Automatically got a Small Peace of Money from Each of the Big Money Property Holders that gave Each Player a Thousand Dollars for Passing Go the Game would be Virtually Endless for ALL Players Giving Everyone an Opportunity to Succeed Not just the Lucky Ones.

[@Time4Peace]

Great analogy! FD keeps the game playing, winners gaining, losers trying and the American Dream alive!

[@reforest4fertility]

Simply the spending from a UBI would trickle upwards, either way, plus would do so into the hands of the types who argue against it. An argument for all getting on board, as this is the real way of stimulating an economy, anyway.

[@AlmaVasquezjr]

Start a pizza shop requires capital, like $100,000 at least, the average poor person in America only have $50-$300 at most. This is an obstacle to self employment.

[@Actias1974]

Then don’t start with 100k shop. Start with a food cart. Build a business.

[@gamespot8527]

At about 55:00, Oren Cass agrees child poverty is harmful and says parenting is the cause. Oren Cass needs to have a chat with Andrew Yang before he speaks on UBI. Oren Cass thinks good parenting skill is the only solution? When you can't feed the family, parenting becomes very difficult.

[@CartoonManWhoo]

UBI has been piloted for 50 years all over the world. IT WORKS.

[@jeanguypaul]

Tell that to CUBANs.

[@jeremyanderson3819]

Sooooo, does UBI come with rent control? Does it come with food allowance? What's to stop landlords from raising their rent to equal the ubi?

[@cfromkc5096]

The same good faith that we use to control it now.......

[@boyar1978]

with this type of income if rents are too high in the USA one could always live overseas, If given the choice i would rather work in China teaching English but i am unable to do that due to the pandemic . Once i am able to get a visa I will plan to go back to China. 1400 a month is really all i would need to live well on.

[@rodelnewton3245]

Understanding Economics. Sprawl will be far more economically viable with UBI, Cluttering in Silicon Valley will be for the rich, OR rather the "EXTRA RICH". But more people will be willing to live in colder environments and more companies will be created to support those places. If you look at average Rent, you'd say "THATS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT I PAY". If rent is cheaper somewhere else, live closer to it. Just close enough to keep rent cheap and not be in a bad neighbourhood. If the richest people are paying ridiculous prices for housing. Landlords will ask for that much. If you live downtown and work as a barista, it's a fair game.

[@boyar1978]

@@rodelnewton3245 dont forget overseas. If the US government is giving me 1000 a month and i can spend it however i choose and all i need to be in order to qualify is a us citizen why live in the USA. I can go live in Cambodia , Brazil, or Thailand and rent a decent apartment and work as an English teacher

[@boyar1978]

i can even start a business in these countries too.

[@antwarior]

The guy in the burgandy explains exactly how I feel, i absolutely oppose working for other people and i think its inhumane to treat people as caddle and people accept this, they say oh go work hard but not mentioning working for someone who drives home to his Mansion with his family while the worker working the hardest everyday has to go live with his mom or family member because he cant pay for his own place even with two jobs, its absolutely crazy

[@thelakeman5207]

That's called Capitalism. Join a union and fight for better wages.

[@antwarior]

@@thelakeman5207 better wages only brings less hours per week and less people employed, better wages will make things worse for others while a basic income is the solution around this all, jobs will start to have to compete for workers and therefore bringing higher wages to the masses, only in competition will better wages make sense because without incentives to better the wage, there will be no better wage without more people suffering do to the highrr wages without incentive to it

[@kinggoten]

@@thelakeman5207 so you get a few bucks an hour wage and still cannot afford anything, and oh if you get injured welcome to poverty.

[@marialenakalamau1267]

Lazy bum!!!!

[@antwarior]

@@marialenakalamau1267 Lazy bum?? hahaha ok s tell me this and be completly honest (not that i espect you to be) do you love your job? i mean do you absolutly love your job and will choose your job over your family any day of the week? go ahead and answer that, I'll wait

[@pliniablue1473]

Totally agree with Karl Widerquist, so authentic. Annoyed at Oren Cass when he says workers are not servants, they are. It is not the same to work with the feeling that you do it by choice, than to have no choice. The main risk that I see with UBI is that the shark debt system might end up confiscating a lot of it. I think it should be limited the amount of it anybody can compromise in debt. It could help to open owner's employees businesses, but what if they do not end up working... or people simply finance too many things and default... UBI should protect anybody from such things or it would loose its purpose.

[@gurubivolaru5114]

How old are you? And where do you work? Do you know what being a servant means? As a worker you have to accomplish a set of objectives. If you are not well prepared, you are disposed. You go train, get better then try again elsewhere. I don't understand where this mentality come from that the worker should be treated like a snowflake. You are a grown adult, you should be able to deal with a certain level of stress.

[@vin.handle]

UBI, or something similar, will become a reality when two conditions occur. When the vast majority of wealth is created by robots and machine algorithms and not by human beings and when Artificial Intelligence makes better entrepreneurial decisions than human entrepreneurs. If and when this happens, UBI will be inevitable.

[@cristipaun8398]

I have question for you. Why should/would they give you UBI if they dont need you anymore? I see it like this: 90% of jobs will be made by robots, they will not give you any UBI, majority will have less kids or none, population will reduce naturally over time from 8 billion to 1 billion. Where is the problem in that?

[@vin.handle]

@@cristipaun8398 And who will there be to buy the products produced by robots? The economy will depend on purchases of the products produced by automation. Robots don't buy cars, washing machines, etc. Humans do.

[@cristipaun8398]

@@vin.handle Very simple. Its all about offer and demand. It will be just enough robots to produce for 1 billion people, not for 8 billion. The extra robots will be taken out of bussiness over time.

[@Colonel__Ingus69]

Does UBI work no absolutely not. My wife did social work for 2 decades. She ran a rehousing projecct and found the 10% that succeeded would have done so without help. The worst part is it encouraged people that could have been independent to sabatoge their own careers to stay on the program. Also she seen her managers misrepresent results to make it sound like the exceptions were the rule. Lets not forget if the gov. Gives you something they have to take it from someone else. 🤔

[@antwarior]

The guy in the blue forgot the fact that people are actually loosing jobs all the time and back packing the UAE? Well actually theres homeless people that already do that right now without the basic income, theres people right now in their moms basement playing video games and smoking weed right now without the income but if you distribute them all an income then maybe they would go and work since the feel how having money makes their lives better and will want to get more, if you cant see how money is important then why would you waist your time working for someone else Makin them rich?

[@RezaRob3]

At 16:50 minutes, how exactly does he get "less than 10% GDP" for the cost of a "generous" UBI?!

[@thedebate4836]

because depending on what the net 0 mark is will change that GDP number. say 60k is the net 0 mark, meaning you pay 12k a year in taxes and get 12k a year in UBI. that means you only have to provide UBI for the bottom 50% (since average wage in US is over 60k a year) also its not like if you make 59,999 a year you get 12k for free, but as soon as you hit that 60k mark you lose it all. so if you make 30k a year, you get a net income of 6k (12k from UBI-6k you pay in taxes). so all you have to do is figure out at what range under 60k does people make and boom you have your % GDP number.

[@Actias1974]

I like the idea of UBI on condition we pay for it with military reductions and other government fat. Also becoming a citizen needs a higher bar. You can’t just wander in and get UBI.

[@___.51]

But just popping out of the womb on the right side of the border is enough to earn UBI? A citizenship clause is a means test. Must show proof of birth or naturalization to receive UBI. It's opening the door, just a crack maybe, for future reforms to take away UBI from more and more people. Maybe felons shouldn't get UBI. Maybe you need to present the proper documentation to receive your check. Maybe this, maybe that. You get my point hopefully. It's not Universal anymore.

[@matthewrobinson710]

The first 5 minutes against UBI are basically start with a mixture of appeal to authority and argumentum ad populum (people in politics don't take UBI seriously) which obviously is not a mark against UBI but of politicians and an uninformed populous. And the next is predicated on an assumption that income taxes would be the main funding mechanism...I would rather listen to Greg Mankiw honestly.

[@fourbruders1916]

Because of Andrew Yang, I am getting smarter in economics.....somewhat.... #Yang2020

[@boyar1978]

I think this is a good deal for everyone. Get rid of minimum wage and welfare and replace it with a UBI. The employers would provide the salary and the government could provide the benefits and make up the difference.

[@person3070]

@@boyar1978 by keeping welfare, but adding UBI on top of it, the cost to have UBI becomes cheaper. Assuming we use Yangs proposal of 1k a month, you would need to raise the minimum wage 1.75 an hour to create a 15 dollar minimum wage, or living wage, assuming they work 40 hours a week, and if you are working that long, you oughta have a living wage.

[@boyar1978]

@@person3070 who said anything about keeping welfare. If you have a means-tested universal basic income where your income is comapred to the per capita income and you would recieve the difference or pay 25% on the access you no longer need welfare. This idea would replace welfare, disability and other ssuch programs while removing disincentives to working, getting married, and other such events which raise people out of poverty. If i had a UBI when I was a teen I would have finshed school and started teaching in China and would likely have saved enough to retire by age 35.

[@person3070]

@@boyar1978 interesting

[@boyar1978]

@@person3070 If you replace welfare with a means tested UBI in which eligibility would be established when a person files their annual income tax it could be awarded to everyone eligible automatically which would save on administration costs. This is because a computer can process eligibility and then send out checks to those who qualify. The amount one would get would be determined by comparings one's income with the per capita of the USA. If one made under the per capita they would get the difference as their UBI payment. If they made over then everything over the per capita income would be taxed at 25% . We would also get rid of corporate tax which would greatly reduce the cost of consumer goods. We would also only charge import taxes on the goods of countries who charges us with import taxes. With this system in place we could get rid of minimum wage as minimum wage does not do anything. If the USA raised minimum wage to 15.00 an hour the rest of the economy will simply adjust to that level of wage which means that in a few years you would have to raise it again to meet status quo. Along with the UBI you can algo give all US citizens voter registration cards which allow people to sign into an online voting website. Finally this could be used as a census form The Ubi would start on day 1 of a person's life. They would recieve access to their money when they graduate highschool or turn 21 whichever came first. Their parents would not have access to their money so that way unscrupulus parents wont be able to steal it from their children. All individuals up to age 30 would be assigned a financial advisor who will advise them on how to manage their money so that scams can be avoided.

[@danieljayasiri7739]

I don’t understand orens wage subsidies; it goes to show that a lot of employers will manipulate it in views that the employee will be paid less in wages knowing that the government will top up their wages...in which case incentivises employers to keep wages low...at the expense of the middle income earners...cos the richer won’t feel it in a tax cos nothing changes for them...in fact you could say it pulls the middle class down and creates a greater wealth gap between middle and high class structures...strange thoughts indeed

[@TheMarkGgr]

It would make more sense to support a higher minimum wage here, than to to say that the government should subsidise the shortfall in pay by the employer.

[@Math_ManTV]

#Yang2020 #YangGang #humanityfirst

[@marialenakalamau1267]

So the money grows in trees????

[@LaoLishLife]

Oren’s Need work..as if they don’t believe people are able find/create work for themselves. Reminds me of what Frederick Douglas stated about freedom...in the opposite sense..where if the slaves get freedom, they won’t be able to handle it, like how they get drunk 🥴.

[@cruzinintoabetterfinancial659]

What on earth? In what study are children doing better when both parents are FORCED to work to afford the basics to survive? How about the 700,000 people fired last year for being 10 mins late to their "job" because their kid was sick or their car battery died on their way to work?? I now support UBI even more than before watching this debate.

[@keith692]

Karl, you are my hero!!

[@charleschenhua]

Debate is over, UBI won. But government just going to screw up the implementation

[@ladysuzanna1]

when i was 18 i was glad to get a job it was my dream job it gave me a home car a child a life

[@ryancox5097]

It certainly didn't teach you how to write.

[@scottiebumich]

Have an American spend a decent amount of time. backpacking around the world and and that will open their eyes. Telling an American something they don't want to hear is a fruitless effort. But I give you credit...keep fighting the good fight!

[@antwarior]

The guy in the middle, needs to shut up, he is absolutely the reason our system is so screwed up and he knows nothing

[@phoenixcongress9301]

He worked for Bain and was an advisor on Mitt Romney's campaign.

[@velara314]

21:04 - Oren Cass at, "It's not true that Food Stamps run out" mn.bridgetobenefits.org/Food_Support2#faq_c6d7674180704bd1a5942e144bec9068 "If you are a single, able-bodied adult without dependents in your home, you can only receive SNAP for 3 months in a 36-month period." And that's if you are approved to begin with. For example, college students are excluded from food. 21:16 - Oren Cass at, "We have medicare." 40 million Americans don't have health care in the richest country in the world. That means they can't get the medicine they need to survive. That means they die if they don't receive medical treatment. See Breaking Bad. The estimate is 40k Americans die each year from preventable illness. Even those with health insurance go bankrupt from illness. Over 500k a year. www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111651742 21:26 - Oren Cass at, "So we have these programs." - Skips over housing. Shelter. What you need to protect yourself from the elements, from plunder. The shelters are full. There are 4 poor families evicted per minute, 250 an hour, 5000 a day. There are working homeless. We have a thing called Safe Parks. These are parking lots cities have setup where people can sleep in their car. www.npr.org/2018/04/12/601783346/first-ever-evictions-database-shows-were-in-the-middle-of-a-housing-crisis This is in the first 5 minutes... 21:35 - Oren Cass, "Do we have holes in our safety net? Absolutely." OK good. He admits it. Translation, "Vast levels of inequality are causing more than half the country to live in poverty and we aren't addressing it." 21:45 - Oren Cass, "To take the fraction of a percent of the population [are affected by poverty falling through the cracks]." No. 80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Nothing for savings. No social mobility. Nothing available for emergencies. Little to no disposable income. 21:45 - Oren Cass, "To take the fraction of a percent of the population... not served by trillions of dollars we spend a year." Yes. Right there. Only 1 in 4 people who qualify for benefits receive it. The waiting list for Section 8 housing is 4- 8 years long. Bureaucracy and corruption take their cut. Block grants mean the states can use the funding for anything they want. In some states that meant that NONE of the assistance for the poor and homeless actually went to the poor or homeless. In India they found out that less than 30% of all assistance went to the intended recipients. A basic income would cut out the middle man. Cut out bureaucracy. Cut out corruption. 22:46- Oren Cass, "All of that being said... we technically could do a basic income." OK thank you. He admits it's possible. It is possible. None of that how are we going to pay for it. Even the opposition says, "we could do a basic income".

[@ashleygerstvideos]

Seems obvious to me that Oren Cass has never met a poor person in his life. His opinions show that he’s never had a shitty exploitative job. And the fact that he thinks someone living in poverty can somehow start a business is insane. 40% of Americans can’t afford a surprise $500 bill 🤨

[@AlmaVasquezjr]

The purpose of the freedom dividend is to extend the unemployment insurance because automation will take the jobs.

[@jessicayates87]

What happens when robots and AI actually do take a huge percentage of jobs away? Robots aren't consuming products in the way that human workers do. If the robots do the work, they don't need wages AND they don't need housing, food, medicine, education ect... Sure, there will be costs and inputs to run the robots but its not to the same level as a human worker. So whoever owns the robots has all the resources. Odds are they aren't going to share with everyone else willingly.. We are going to have to come up with new jobs to give the workers who are being displaced or we have to share the wealth that is being created by robots and AI. Otherwise things are going to get really bad for everyone, not just the poor.

[@cristipaun8398]

I agree with you. imo will be like this : in the future , 90% of jobs will be made by robots. When that happends, they will not give us any UBI ( fair imo) , majority will have less kids or none and he population will reduce naturally over time from 8 billion to 1 billion. I dont see any problem or unfairness in that.

[@leroygates3239]

In exchange for what?